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Who Cares? Penn State Basketball For The Masses

Joe_pa_pic_medium

That would be one way.

 

On getting the masses into the house that Disney on Ice built....


What is it about Penn State basketball that makes the vast majority of the student body and alumni so disconnected?

Junny: To the casual fan, Penn State basketball is nothing more than another non-football varsity sport. They play in an arena that seats over 15K people, and their sport is easily the second most popular college sport in the country, so their attendance numbers are going to be OK, for the most part. However, very few people, outside of the diehards, will tune into the BTN on a Tuesday night to watch a basketball game against Indiana. The tradition that permeates our football team just isn't present in basketball. There are little to no expectations out of the casual fan, and little to no identity of the basketball team to the casual fan. I would wager my law school loans on the fact that few casual fans could name more than four players and the coach.

KHD: One of the things that makes football great is the tradition and pride. There's no tradition or even much pride when you look back at the full history of Penn State basketball. It's also less of an event than a football game, so getting people to a go sit and watch a poor product that doesn't include a four hour pre-party isn't much of a pitch.

Star-divide

What level of consistent success does the team need to reach visibility?

Junny: This is a tough one; as a casual fan, my first response is to say national championships should always be the goal. But as a realist, I know that Penn State basketball, outside of a really fluke season, is never going to be mentioned in the same breath with Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc. So success should be relative. Consistent NCAA appearances, a B10 title run every now and then, and victories over teams that are, on paper, better than we are (see MSU in '09) would be a good place to aim for in the near future. If Penn State were consistently making the Big Dance, I might watch a few more games to see what the hype is all about.

KHD: I don't think the bar needs to be very high, so I'll settle on pre-season expectations of at least being able to compete for a Big Ten championship. If Penn State had a 50-50 chance of winning all or most of their games, well people might think that worth watching. NCAA appearances are nice, but I would argue consistent 5th place finishes in the Big Ten, even with, say, making the tournament 3 out of 4 years, isn't actually all that interesting. You have to win something every once in a while (and I don't think the NIT qualifies here, at least not going forward).

What are your feelings toward Spanier, Curley and the administration's handling of the basketball team? Or more specifically, do you think the administration is keeping the status quo because it is a money making venture, rather than living up to the adage "you need to spend money to make money"?

Junny: I'm going to take the safe road and say a little bit of both. Spanier and Curley know that the goal of any athletics department is to make money. Luckily, we have an extremely profitable football team that helps the entire athletics department stay afloat. However, as a school with more-than-40K students, we should also be competitive in basketball, or at least as competitive as some other comparable schools that are successful in both sports (Ohio State). As a casual fan, I don't know what amount of money is generated by the basketball program, nor do I know how much is put back into it for general basketball operations. So my answer is both: Spanier and Curley seem to be making money off this team without putting enough back in because it seems to be safer to keep a steady upward trending profit line as opposed to risk hiring a better paid coach with better resources but that might not pan out.

KHD: They are taking the safe money, which might be smart if your goal is to run a successful business, but it's certainly not the best formula for winning games. Spending money to make money is risky, and I can appreciate that, but having one of the five or so most profitable ADs in the country and then a basketball coach making less than all ten of his in-league colleagues seems cheap at best, and it certainly doesn't give off the impression that they care.

Penn State football is spoiled in that they have a winning tradition and are led by a staff that "does it the right way." If you could only pick one of those for the basketball team, which would it be - would you rather keep Ed and have mediocre seasons, or get a bigger name with established recruiting practices but sacrifice the "right way"?

Junny: Penn State prides itself on a great education with a great football tradition led by a man that is as revered in his field as one could possibly be (hell, they named a Coach of the Year award after him). So we get winning football without having to duck ethical and moral discussions because we toe the line. However, pressed to pick one of these for our Penn State basketball team, I will always go with "the right way." I will sacrifice the wins that a Calipari-type coach will bring if it means keeping Penn State out of the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Does that mean we're destined for mediocrity? Not necessarily, as there are ways to win with honor in college basketball; but for this casual fan, I don't ever want to see a coach, in any sport, that makes us as fans need to make excuses for certain actions within the program.

KHD: I have no interest in a program involved in shenanigans, and no line of work involves as much of that kind of fun as basketball recruiting. You add in the one-n-done rule, which prevents a decent basketball player from ever becoming anything close to an actual student, and the whole thing just stinks. I'd much rather have the status quo than occasional Final Four appearances with baggage.  But I think we can both agree it doesn't have to come to that.

Poll
The masses will show if only Penn State basketball could just...
be a consistent .500 team.
44 votes
be a consistent NCAA tournament team.
437 votes
be a consistent Big Ten championship contender.
142 votes
be a consistent national championship contender.
12 votes

635 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 46 comments |

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Comments

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Beating the dead horse:

I wager we had around 7-8k fans for every Big Ten game at the BJC. Enough to fill Rec Hall.

I’m sorry, I just really think we’ve dug a hole and the BJC won’t help us climb out.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Cats love curtains.

/lamest joke I’ve ever made

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Mar 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is worse?

A half empty, new arena, with new locker rooms, video rooms, and other comfortable amenities, or a hot full arena with less than stellar accommodations?

"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"

by psuphiman80 on Mar 16, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I'd say the latter did better than the former ever did.

The comfortable amenities haven’t really done lots for us and the arena may be new, but it’s not especially awesome. Plus it’s just too big for us.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tough to compare though

While A10 ball is good it’s not comparable to playing in the B10. I think having the nice facilities is better than not having them at all. Rec Hall just isn’t that cool to anyone outside of PSU.

"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"

by psuphiman80 on Mar 16, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec Hall just isn’t that cool to anyone outside of PSU.

Isn’t that the point? You don’t WANT to play there if you’re an opponent.

by PennStateBasketball on Mar 16, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm thinking recruiting wise.

Recruiting is the life blood of the program. The BJC is one of the lone “bright spots”

"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"

by psuphiman80 on Mar 16, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec Hall could've been renovated

Those classrooms could’ve been removed and rebuilt into locker rooms/lounges/offices/etcetera. The track could’ve been removed and rows of seats added to accommodate more fans.

I could go on and on.

by PennStateBasketball on Mar 16, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The BJC was part of our agreement to enter the Big 10

I’m not sure that Rec Hall, short of tearing it down and rebuilding on the same spot, could have ever physically met the arena requirements the league imposes. It’s not a question so much of whether it’s big enough for PSU basketball, but whether it’s big enough for the Big 10.

by elefantstn on Mar 16, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

100% Internet rumor

Building the Big Joint was not any sort of condition for admittance into the Big Ten.

by PennStateBasketball on Mar 16, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

The accomodations may be, but there are plenty of generic, large-ish arenas out there.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ask jesse. or anyone else from those early days.

The place was nuts in the first years of the Big Ten.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

A very dead horse

Look, the Flyers moved out of the Spectrum and they somehow survived.

If Penn State wins games, it doesn’t matter if they’re played in Rec Hall, the BJC, or on the moon.

The BJC is too big a gym for a bad basketball program like Penn State, but it’s a place that would have made the Pittsburgh Penguins jealous five years ago, so let’s not overstate it’s “soulessness” and etc. If the team was good, the place would rock like it does for THON, period.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Mar 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not worthy of a "period" as far as I'm concerned.

I will believe we can fill that place when I see it with my own eyes via television. And by “good” you have to mean “really, really, really good”.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I think you seriously underestimate just how much generic type feelings can hurt an arena.

Seriously, Ohio State’s arena is bland and many of the seats are far away from the court. Surprise, they couldn’t get close to filling it with a top 10 ranking, a chance at the conference title, and Evan Turner.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who cares dude?

Seriously dude, I don’t care if we fill it to capacity for every game. We’re never going to be that program. Never. So stop lamenting it and be happy with what we’ve got.

I’ll take 11-12,000 on weeknights and 15,000+ on weekends and run with it because I’ve heard 4,000 make a ton of noise at women’s games.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Mar 17, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not so sure we can fill it to that point either, so....

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 17, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

So why complain? Its not gonna help.

The only way to help the whole attendance thing is to go to as many games as you can and ask other people to go as well. Bitching about it does nothing but annoy.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Mar 17, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not bitching so much as it is sadly reminiscing.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 17, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

But I'll end it with this:

We’re never going to go back there for a myriad of reasons, but I agree with what jesse. said two years ago: we may want to play the dregs of the schedule at the Rec Hall. Other than that, I’m ready to talk about something other than PSU basketball. Jesse.‘s post was two years ago and it’s pretty much exactly what we’ve been talking about lately. The horse is dead, but’s it not just the Rec Hall thing.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 17, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Related

BDIA wonders: What’s the goal here?

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Mar 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Here's a question for the group

Does the Big Ten have an obligation to help Penn State in any way? You have to think it would benefit them. I’m sure they can compare ratings on the BTN for PSU games last year vs. this year. Bigger ratings means bigger advertising dollars.

I’m just not sure what the Big Ten can do. Maybe a board of coaches and athletic directors take a trip to Penn State and advise Ed and Curley on what to do. Maybe the Big Ten offers Penn State free advertising to draw the interest of high school talent. I’m not sure if anything can be done, but I wonder if the Big Ten sees any value in building up the Penn State basketball brand.

by BSD on Mar 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

JoePa visits Texas in 2005

Does anything like this exist in basketball? There’s got to be a couple basketball schools that wouldn’t mind helping us out, maybe Duke could send us some bball assistants and we do the same for football.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Mar 16, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMO all people really want is a team that’s good enough to make it a priority in their lives. Right now I can use a football game as a valid excuse to get out of just about anything. “Sorry, I’m sure it’ll be a lovely wedding but we’re playing Alabama… I mean, ‘cmon it’s ALABAMA… so… yeah I’m not going to make it”

I can’t even interrupt House to watch a basketball game right now. Just be good enough that people don’t laugh when you ask to change the channel to see what the MBB score is.

by millzners on Mar 16, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

So we're at my buddy's house getting ready to go out to the bars on the South Side.

He’s also a Penn State alum. We’re having a couple cold ones before its not too early to be doing shots. I think Nacho Libre is on TBS. During a commercial, I switch it to BTN to check the score of the Penn State game and I get yelled at. That’s where the situation is with the casual fan.

Milk-a-what?

by PSUJunny05 on Mar 16, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

when nacho libre takes precedence over your basketball team, you know the casual fan commitment level is in the toilet

by jman07 on Mar 17, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tim Curley doesn't care about basketball people

Regardless of whether the fans care, it’s pretty obvious that the AD doesn’t. No school where basketball was a priority would put up with this level of extended futility.

That said, I prefer futility with stand-up coaches and kids who occasionally pull of an inspiring run (01, 09) to having a gigantic sleazeball like Calipari or Pitino. It’d be nice to have a squeaky-clean and successful program, but I don’t see the level of commitment or investment necessary for that at PSU.

Fortunately, volleyball is a really fun sport to watch.

by elefantstn on Mar 16, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

What I keep telling myself is

Eventually we’ll have a B10 D-1 Hockey league, and by-God that will be a glorious thing to behold. I like hockey better then MBB anyway. I hate college BB refs.

by millzners on Mar 16, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Seconded.

I know about your diabolical plan.

by Kevin HD on Mar 16, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1, because I'm a whore for hockey talk

"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."

by IcersGuy on Mar 16, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like rooting for penn state hoops

in the same way that I like rooting for the pirates. Maybe it’s the masochist in me, or maybe it’s the fact that I get to spend the fall rooting for the Steelers and Nittany Lions, but there’s something sweet about rooting for the underdog.

Specifically, any success (even an NIT championship or a .500 season) becomes a big deal. You learn to appreciate the little things.

So, for me, and this sounds weird, the goal is not the greatest men’s basketball team in the history of the world (though of course that’s not reasonable either). It would nice if we could COMPETE…and to me that means that every four-year student should get to experience PSU being part of the big dance while they’re a student. We should always make the NIT if we don’t make the field of 64.

In addition, I would like some character, plese. I think Mike made the observation earlier that none of Ed’s teams has had any discernible identity. Let’s be the only big ten team that plays “small ball” or “big ball” or presses the full court or something, but please, let’s have some identity.

Yep, that’s it, we need an identity. There was the chance after the sweet 16 trip in ‘01 that our identity would be in replicating those types of teams, by which I mean Jerry Dunn could have tried to just consistently recruit someone like Joe Crispin: a great shooter who hated passing, and told him that he could come to Penn State and pretty much forget about his teammates. He could just come down the floor and do whatever he wants with the ball. I’m not sure I would have liked that, but at least it would have been an identity.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Mar 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Speaking of identity.

Why don’t we wear black shoes? This is just a given. I’d also like the uniforms to be a bit more simple, with a stripe down the pants and that cool Keystone S logo.

Also, as for what Ed’s trying to do, sometimes I think he wants to run the ball and shoot 3s. Other times, I don’t know what’s even happening. That’s most of the time, really.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Forget Calipari & Petino

They are the exceptions. Just look East to Philadelphia. Penn, LaSalle, St. Joes, Temple, Villanova, & Drexel consistently run clean programs with high graduation rates. Then of course there is Duke, Stanford, NC, NC State just to name a few. Even Pitt and Syracuse seem to have figured out how to recruit and win with honor. You just have to have people in charge who want to take the bull by the horns. There is nothing wrong with running a BB program like any of these and dozens of other schools. It can be done if you want to do it.

As for Hockey. It will bring more money into the coffers than BB and you’ll have to fight to get tickets. Unfortunately there are no gift horses out there with the money to support such an adventure and we all know that PS won’t go it without a no strings attached donation from a wealthy benefactor.

by bluebellgolfer on Mar 16, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

hmm, I may want to switch my pledge of $10 to a basketball coach

to a $10 pledge for HOCKEY!!!!

Does anyone think the Hockey Lion could ever be anywhere near as cool as Hockey Bear?

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 17, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not until it gets to blow up osu, mich and sparty,

but maybe it could be awesome?

Who am I kidding it would be way awesome.

by bconway6 on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now, I don't consider myself a huge basketball fan, or anything more than a casual PSU hoops fan

But it seems to me that they only way to improve the team’s performance—and in turn, it’s popularity among the masses—is to bring in better recruits, and currently, I can’t see any incentive for those kind of players to come to Penn State. The high-end recruits in PA have so many better options if they want to stay in-state.

Is the problem fixable? In theory, yes, but in reality, I don’t know.

It’s starts with coaching. Ed DeChellis is not going to take this team to the next level. He doesn’t recruit well enough and he doesn’t seem to coach them up well enough. They need someone better. However, if it was even possible to entice a highly-regarded coach to come here and build up the program (and I’m not sure it is), could he convince the top recruits to follow him here? I don’t buy the argument that the program is hurt by not being located in an urban area, because if kids think that they can get exposure playing for PSU, then they’ll come here—just look at the football team. But right now the program is caught in a death loop where most top recruits won’t consider coming here until the program is better, and the program won’t be better until it can get the better recruits.

It could be done, but we’d have to find a better coach, hope he can bring talent with him, and then find a way to keep him. Until the AD changes the way it looks at the program, that seems unlikely.

Just one casual fan’s $0.02.

"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"

by DrewRusse on Mar 16, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

You know, the weather's been nice lately.

We all need to go on vacation or somethin’ until BW Day.

"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo

by ReadingRambler on Mar 16, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know but shoot....

If you read all of these threads, they consist of maybe like 6 different comments. No new views or perspectives or ideas. After I post something a few times, I lose the energy to keep posting it.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Mar 17, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

your web-fu is weak

practice by posting “Penn State football is more popular than Penn State basketball” 100 times.

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 18, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd take competitive

Are you kidding me here? Penn State is consistantly one of the top athletic programs in the county top to bottom. Our athletic department is one of the most profitable. Is it too much to ask to field even a competitive team? I may be in the minority here, but last year’s run in the NIT actually made me excited about the basketball program. I actually put time aside to watch those games. That may have been the first time I did that since their run to the sweet sixteeen in 2000. And we didn’t even make the NCAA!! Penn State has a tremendous fan base, and I can guarantee that the BJC would be packed if they knew they were seeing a team with a chance to win every night. Would a nat’l title contender be exciting? Sure, but let’s start with competitive. We should never settle for 11th out of 11th (in the Big 10!) with one good team every 10 years! We’ve never even had a first round bye in the B10 tourney! Give me a perenial NIT team with an NCAA appearance every 2 or 3 years. Is that too much to ask for a premier athletic program?

by Jonathan Freet on Mar 17, 2010 5:07 PM EDT reply actions  

no, it isn't too much to ask for

then again, I thought a PlayStation wasn’t too much to ask for back in like 1996, but I still didn’t get it.

by The JuggerNitt on Mar 18, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

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