When One Door Closes, Another One Opens
by For The Glory 1855 on Mar 19, 2010 10:52 PM EDT
in Basketball
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PrintAs if a last place finish in the Big Ten and an 11-20 record in 2010 didn't plant a seed of doubt in the minds of those hopeful Penn State can reach the NCAA tournament in 2011, um, this probably will.
Chris Babb, starting shooting guard and one of the few bright spots for Penn State's beleaguered men's basketball team this season, has decided to transfer from PSU, his father Mike Babb confirmed a few moments ago by phone from the family's home in Arlington, Texas.The sophomore's departure is a crushing blow to an already reeling program. Babb was not just a cornerstone for the team's future plans, he was one of the two most effective players on this year's squad. His scoring average (9.3) and minutes played (29.7) each ranked third on the team.
Babb isn't talking about reasons for the transfer, nor has he outlined any potential landing spots, so rather than speculate, let's focus on some facts and where this puts Penn State in 2010-2011.
Obviously, Babb's transfer leaves a hole at the starting two spot. Finding a replacement within the current locker room is of paramount importance if Penn State is going to improve in 2011, however, that might not be as burdensome a task as you might expect at first...
Babb scored 72% of his points on 69-185 (37%) shooting from beyond the arc in 2010. By comparison, Stanley Pringle, the man Babb replaced at the two from the 2009, scored only 45% of his points on 72-160 (45%) shooting from deep. Simply put, Pringle was a better all-around scorer than Babb, and he was a better three point shooter to boot.
Now, Stanley Pringle isn't coming back next year, but if we're using his 2009 season as a template for the kind of production Penn State needs from the two spot, the numbers say Babb isn't the type of player to fill that role. To this point in his career, Babb has looked more like Danny Morrissey, primarily a three-point specialist who came off the bench to spell Pringle his senior season.
Both Tim Frazier and Taran Buie promise to be better all-around basketball players, and more capable of filling that Pringle role than Chris Babb in the future. Unfortunately, losing Babb is going to make their learning curves steeper and takes away an important safety valve for 2011, but if Frazier improves and Buie lives up to at least some of the hype of being Penn State's best recruit in years, the pair is more than capable of not only replacing, but exceeding Babb's production in 2011 regardless of whether he is in the program or not.
Don't get me wrong, losing Babb certainly doesn't help the 2011 team. There's a chance he could have developed into more of a threat to penetrate and score on the inside, and there's also a chance he could have turned into a real lights-out shooter from deep.
However, the truth of the matter is that on a good team, an NCAA Tournament team, Chris Babb is a third guard with a pretty good jumper. Penn State has both players that can provide more of an inside/penetration threat than Babb at the starting two in Frazier and Buie and players that can fill the bench role in Cammeron Woodyard, Adam Highberger, and Jermaine Marshall.
Chris Babb will be missed, and we wish him nothing but the best going forward, but his departure should not cripple Penn State. If it does, the Lions weren't headed anywhere regardless.
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It's a loss, but...
…there’s only one guy on this team that’ll make you think, “crap, we can’t ever lose that guy or we’re screwed.” And it’s not Chris Babb. He got better as the season progressed, but he was still our 3rd best offensive player (a shade behind DJ).
Always a bad sign when a starter transfers, though. Should be interesting to see how the scholarship is used, though. If we can get a solid JUCO PF, that would make me happy.
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 19, 2010 11:01 PM EDT reply actions
Completely disagree
Dribble penetration teams only work if you have shooters to kick it too. This team already lacked outside shooting, now where is it going to come from? Babb wasn’t a world beater, he was also a sophomore on the last place team in the Big Ten. If he was Michael Redd, Penn State probably wouldn’t have been a last place team.
This is the Big Ten, they aren’t going to win games with 6 foot guys attacking the rim all game. With no post presence and no reliable outside shooing, how is this team going to get over the hump when next year is supposed to be the year that all the apologists are pointing to? Next year’s team loses 5 guys assuming Ott comes back.
Nowhere in your article did you mention defense which is kind of important if you ant to be more than a last place team. Babb was a decent defender with size.
Here’s a prediction. Everyone expects Buie to be a savior and puts way too much pressure on him to be the real deal right away. Penn State struggles big time next season and he burns out from the expectations. His brother graduates with half the team and Buie looks for another place to play for 3 seasons after he redshirts for a year.
Ed is going to be recruiting players as a lame duck next season and the program will fall back into the dark ages again. I’m sure the fact that Tim is from Texas as well will eventually come into play.
A change had to be made this year. Oh well.
The scholarship # issue is huge.
This class is just Buie and, maybe now, a JUCO unless Ed unearths some sort of hidden high school gem. Next year, there’s Burke, Alexis, and three others. Now would’ve been a good separation point if PSU was actually inclined to do it.
"When it’s third-and-10, you can take the milk drinkers and I’ll take the whiskey drinkers every time" - Max McGee
by Run Up The Score on Mar 19, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
For You To Consider
-What you’re forgetting is that Babb was only a deep threat on half the nights he played. He could shoot the lights out one night and disappear the next. Of course, that can improve, but it’s not like Babb was someone Penn State could rely on game in and game out. Frazier matched Babb’s % this year, and the fragmented stats I can find on Buie suggest he’s not bad from deep either. The duo is going to have to prove itself, but at this point I’m not prepared to say we’re inept from beyond the arc, just unproven.
-The post play was going to have to improve with Babb anyway.
-I’m of the opinion that better athletes=better defense. Babb was pretty decent, but Frazier and Buie’s athleticism will make them serviceable, too.
-I don’t expect Buie to come in here and be a God next year. All I expect is that he and Frazier together can cover 9.3 points per game. Is that really asking so much? Talor Battle posted a 10.2 ppg/3.5 reb/3.2 ast and 34% 3PFG line his freshman year. Buie is expected to be better. I don’t think it’s at all beyond him to score 5-7 points per game next year and work with Frazier to help Penn State improve at the two.
-I agree that the load of guys graduating, plus Babb’s transfer and possibly Ott’’s departure are a problem, but I’m not going to damn ED to hell for players he’s not yet signed.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 19, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
When do the excuses stop?
When is it finally do or die for Ed with the fans who continue to apologize for him? When are there no more excuses?
The apologists said this team was young. 3 returning starters who have been starting for 3 years. One of them might be the best player in school history and the other two were redshirts. We couldn’t beat UNC Wilmington and Tulane, two mid major schools that had horrible years during an incredibly weak year for college basketball.
At what point do you stop analyzing the roster and pointing to freshman and recruits that are yet to be determined? We are heading into Ed’s 8th year. This isn’t year 3 or 4.
What kind of pull is Ed going to have with recruits this summer? Are we forgetting that Buie never would have come to Penn State if it weren’t for his brother? Ed’s not going to be rely on getting kid’s brothers forever. Everyone points to this kid as a sign that Ed’s making ground in recruiting. He wouldn’t be here if not for his brother.
I’m just tired of the losing. I’m tired of the excuses.
I’ve been listening to the same crap for so long when it comes to this program. At some point it has to stop. When?
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Um
When the horn sounded at the end of Penn State’s 76-55 loss to Minnesota Thursday in the first round of the Big Ten Tournament in Indianapolis, so began the Nittany Lions’ put up or shut up 2011 basketball season.
If Ed can’t get it done with 4 of his own seniors, then blow it up.
Penn State is obviously taking a risk that we’ll get killed in recruiting next year. I get that. But I’m not convinced the administration is going to hire anyone who’s going to turn this recruiting cycle around that dramatically, anyway. I’m at peace with sinking or swimming with whatever we get out of Ed this year because I’m not convinced the alternative is worth punting on 2011 for.
I’m not an apologist, and I thin a 3 year extension was too generous after last year, but I’m not prepared to fire Ed until after next season.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad giving Ed another
shot is worth setting this program back another 4 or 5 years. It’s not like a winning season next year means anything when there’s not thing left on the roster.
Ed has never had an ability to sustain success, he’s never demonstrated an ability to have more than 1 good year.
Getting a decent player every now and then is no accomplishment. Penn State is a Big Ten program. By default Penn State HAS to get some players.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Firing Ed Dechellis
Sets the program back 4 to 5 years, too.
Sorry.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
How?
I dont mind that he is still here, but how does it set us back 4-5 years? We are gonna be young as hell after next year anyways, so how does it set us back 4-5 years? Not all coaching changes are bad, Sometimes they actually work out. Holding on to Ed may pay off, but so might an outside hire. Its not like we really have a lot to lose. Especially after this year.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
Sometimes they do work
But they definitely don’t work when the people doing the hiring don’t really care who the coach is.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm willing to take my chances.
I’d rather have a new coach be the guy fill out this big recruiting class with his types of players rather than being saddled with the drek that DeChellis will most likely be able to pull in. This program is going nowhere fast with ED. Another head coach can’t be much worse, and there’s at least a shred of hope that he’ll be better.
When DeChellis took over, he was able to completely turn over the roster within two seasons (save one holdover: Ben Luber). When DeChellis fails to get this team into the tournament in 2011 and is politely asked to resign, the new coach will be saddled with nearly half of ED’s scholarships for 4-5 years, so that wouldn’t allow the new guy to really be evaluated for almost half a decade. How does that not set us further back? And what if ED does make the dance next year? His whole team is gone, and we’ve seen from his past history that it will take him at least three years to put together another competitive team.
Please Tim Curley, give us some hope.
Yeah
because the first guy they bring in after Ed will DEFINITELY pull in top/better talent compared to DeChellis’ “drek”, us being a totally awesome basketball school and all.
I’m not an apologist, and I thin a 3 year extension was too generous after last year, but I’m not prepared to fire Ed until after next season.
1. This whole article was apologistic. As streaky as Babb was, he was our only somewhat reliable outside shooter (which is pretty pathetic). Tim Frazier was awful shooting the ball all year long, and if you’re relying on Cam Woodyard (also terrible all season long) and Adam “I’m whiter than Morrissey” Highberger to be some sort of epiphany, then I’m not sure what else to say other than you are being a pure apologist for the state of the program. Expecting a revelation from Buie is misguided since it’s a complete unknown what will happen once his opponents on the court can meet or exceed his athleticism.
2. Thank goodness you’re not the one making the decision to fire ED. Your buddy, Tim, is.
1. Thanks for bringing racist comments to the discussion
2.
Tim Frazier was awful shooting the ballall year longuntil the last few games when he started stringing together a few jumpers
I'm going to repeat it
Talor Battle’s freshman season:
10.2 ppg/3.5 reb/3.5 ast/34% 3PFG
Buie is expected to be better.
You get HALF of Talor’s production and put it together with a plateauing Frazier (this assumes he gets no better) and you have Babb’s #s and more. Buie doesn’t have to be a star, he just needs to contribute SOMETHING to make this work.
And Woodyard CAN shoot the three, unfortunately, the only time you got to see it was at the end of games when he was taking desparation heaves. My guess is that he ends up between 32-35% with more regular minutes. Not Babb, but not worthless either.
And lastly, Frazier shot 38%. Babb shot 37%. Granted, Babb’s total included more jumpers, but if Frazier wants the slash a little more to score his points, let him. It’ll open Talor up more on the perimeter.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Jon Crispin was supposed to be better than Joe.
Battle averaged 10 points a game on a bad basketball team that had little scoring punch.
Babb’s a bad loss no matter how you slice it. Not because he’s Michael Redd. He was however the team’s second best scoring option and the team’s most improved player.
The only thing you used to be able to say about the Dechellis era was that there weren’t transfers. He was a starter, was going to continue to start the next couple years, and he decided to leave.
You need to have guys that can stand outside the three point arc and make shots.
Any team with a clue next year is going to play off our guards and dare them to shoot.
And enough with comparing the % of both players. Babb’s degree of difficulty on outside shots because team’s respected his ability was FAR HIGHER than Tim’s.
You can’t defend this loss. Spare me w/ Woodyard.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
That was David Jackson sir.
And I’ll defend whatever the hell I want. Babb was a half baked shooting guard on a bad basketball team and he was going to be replaced by younger players with more potential whether he stayed or not.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If he was still here you would not be saying that.
And now Edwards is gone too. So Im going to guess that he was never going to amount to anything either?
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
No
Now we’re in deep s***
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What about David Jackson
You keep missing my point.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever dude
With Edwards gone, we’re boned. No sense arguing anymore. I still think we could have lived without Babb, but losing Edwards and reportedly Ott leaves us completely screwed in the frontcourt.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Back in the
day when Jerry Dunn was floundering, legendary apologists used to point to the fact that other schools were winning with Juco’s and partial qualifiers, something Penn State would never do.
These same guys, who are DYING for Ed to succeed continually point to the juco ranks as a way to quickly fix the mess that has been created by the fact that Ed hasn’t recruited a decent big man since Buie was in junior high. Now that Penn State is doing it, it’s acceptable. These kids are no longer morons, they worked incredibly hard at the juco level to improve their academic standing so that they too can walk through the hallowed quarters of the Pattee library. I can’t believe I went there.
CORNLEY SMASH
HE WILL HUNT BABB DOWN LIKE A WOUNDED ANIMAL AND THEN…
FATALITY
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
by millzners on Mar 20, 2010 8:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Way to polish a turd, Fugi
Babb wasn’t the most accurate shooter, but he was good enough that teams had to keep him honest and couldn’t just let him roam free. But I think you’re forgetting Babb’s defense. I thought he played the best perimeter defense of all the guards, and that’s something they are horrible at. All around, I thought Babb was a pretty smart player. He didn’t kill us with five turnovers every night like Frazier, who is most likely going to pick up more minutes in Babb’s absense.
What concerns me more is the culture of the team. It’s troubling when you see a sophomore starter leaving. I’m hoping he left because he was homesick or he’s afraid Buie is going to take his job, and not because there is some kind of cancer festering in the locker room.
What really sucks about this whole season is that they have a ton of scholarships to give out next year, but after this crappy season recruiting any kind of decent talent is going to be an uphill battle.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Babb's defense was the best of the guards, but I'm really not sure if that's saying much.
It’s a loss, yes, but I’m not of the opinion that some people here should be claiming next season will be horrible because Chris Babb has left.
As for recruiting, Ed has shown he can recruit Claxton and Battle after horrible season after horrible season.
As for “locker room culture”, we don’t know so we have to trust our BSD posters, right?
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 20, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
But from what I hear Andrew Jones’s twitter was pretty depressing last night.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
What?
He landed Claxton with his first real recruiting class. That was after year 1. How was that horrible season after horrible season, and please don’t tell me you’re factoring in Dunn’s years.
When he landed Battle he was still relatively new to the program and Cornley and Claxton were in the program.
There is a huge difference between year 1-4 and year 8. It’s not even close.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I am factoring in Dunn's years.
We were garbage those last two years. How am I supposed to not factor those in?
The fact is that Ed has been a decent recruiter. Sorry.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 20, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter
what Dunn did. Most coaches come to a new program because it was losing.
In years 1 through 4 he’s able to sell recruits on his vision and that he’s going to be the guy to turn things around.
When its year 8 and you’e made no NCAA Tournaments and you just finished in last place and at least two players who were seen as valuable are transferring, what message are you selling players?
Do you understand what I’m trying to point out?
Ed was selling a vision then, that vision is dead.
He’ll always be able to recruit some players. It’s a Big Ten program, there are only so many big schools that a player can attend. Landing a 3 star player every now and then is hardly a great accomplishment.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 20, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
How does it not matter what Dunn did?
Explain this, please.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 20, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
I’ve been seeing rumors that Babb won’t be the last to go, in which case we might be in trouble, but until that happens, I’m not going to lose too much sleep over losing a streaky three-point shooter who can play a little D. He’s replaceable with the guys we have on this roster, and if things well, we might be able to improve at that spot.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Reeling
indeed is the word and “uphill battle” (Battle) may be digging out of a hole.
Honestly,
I think we are capable of finding somebody to make up for Babb’s 9.3 ppg… however I don’t think we can replace his defense. Our perimeter defense was a joke to begin with, and now next season could end up fairly embarrassing.
"St. Louis is my home, but as far as all this other stuff, I'm a Phillie."
-Ryan Howard
Here's what I'm expecting next year
1.) Talor Battle is going to be Talor Battle
2.) Andrew Jones finds himself again to become the beast of a man that he was during the NIT (Here’s looking at you Louis Preston)… or at least better than he was this year
3.) Jeff Brooks will be more consistent than he was this year
4.) Tim Frazier will not be a freshman
5.) Buie can give us a multi-layered attack between him and Battle to the inside and possibly an outside shot
6.) Sasa will be posting it up by the end of the year
Not that unrealistic. That alone probably adds on, what, 5 conference wins? Think about other teams and what they’re losing, maybe 6 or 7. Take some of our three point, unlucky losses and turn them into wins… why can’t we go dancing next year?
By the way
much of next year relies on number 2, and I’m aware that’s the highest reaching expectation of them all
I do
I’m off the goodship Ed at this point. If he pulls a miracle or two in the next couple of weeks and brings in some competent guys, I can be swayed, but this is a disaster. You’ve got DJ, two habitual underacheivers, and Sasa at the forwards next year. That’s just not going to work.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Mar 20, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the club, fugi.
The ending of Ed’s tenure can’t come soon enough. Everyone is jumping ship… and they’re doing it because they don’t believe in the program. ED has got to go… now.
Considering
you think Jay Wright runs a program that habitually underachieves, people shouldn’t care what you’d like to see.
And people shouldn't care about what you'd like to see
Become a Nittany Lion season ticket holder and booster, and then whine to the powers that be, not us.
By the way, how far did you have Villanova going in your bracket? Did you have them losing in the second round to Saint Mary’s? If not, I would say they under achieved.
Unless you had them losing to Robert Morris. Then I would commend you for a ballsy pick.
You
said they lose habitually. That means regularly. That isn’t close to the case with Jay. Only twice has Jay lost to a lower seed. If you get to the NCAA’s enough, you will lose early. Name me the coach who hasn’t.
I didn’t have them losing to St Mary’s, but following the team this year, I knew facing a team with a good big man in the NCAA’s would give them problems. St Mary’s not only had a big man but three point shooters to spread the floor. I wasn’t surprised they lost.
Villanova returned no experience in their front court. Absolutely none. They still got a 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament.
That just shows how far behind Penn State is.
When's the last time that they won the last game of their season?
1985. They lose every year in the tournament. They have just as much to show for the last 20 years as Penn State does. 0 championships
Oh, and if Penn State played in the Big East
we’d probably make it to the tournament too… It doesn’t matter how good a Big East team is, they’ll just beat the weak, overhyped teams in their conference and make it.
This year maybe...
The Big East is exceptionally weak this season yet over-rated the whole time. Maybe the bottom feeders of both leagues could stage a toilet bowl at the end of the season. One gem the BT has that the BE doesn’t is Izzo. Pretty amazing coach.
Oh really?
Penn State couldn’t get to the NCAA Tournament if they played in the Atlantic 10.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 29, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Huge surprise, your facts are wrong again
Villanova won the NIT as well when Kerry Kittles was a sophomore.
Sound logic on your part, if you don’t win the national title you might as well be the worse program in the country, what’s the difference.
by Richard Aceto on Mar 29, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Egocentric football
Penn State athletics has a big problem. As football expands, every other sport but wrestling contracts. Why?
Because they're trying to anger Richard Aceto.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 21, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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