Defending The East: This Is What Recruiting Looks Like
The Big Ten might expand east, and for Penn State that means a potential change to an region they still claim to be the flagship of despite playing many of their games in the frontier. It's helpful to see where eastern football talent comes from, how much of it is Penn State's, and what additions from the east mean for the current "balance."
It's more fun with a map.
*Preemptive issues with the data. Because there's always "issues" with the data. For starters: the Top-By-State lists are not all equal-a guy who lands at the bottom of the Connecticut list might not make the cut on the Pennsylvania list, for example. But as a ballpark overview I don't think this is a major issue except to perhaps slightly inflate the commits landed for Boston College and UConn who often seem to be cleaning up those two-stars left behind.
You also might consider that border schools (in the context of being "eastern") like Penn State and Maryland have more draw in non-eastern states than a more centralized school like UConn and Rutgers. These outer schools are somewhat cross-regional, if that term exists.
Bullets that mostly start with questions...
- Well first, how about a chart:
School Eastern Recruits Penn St. 22 Maryland 15 Pittsburgh 14 Rutgers 9 Florida 9 Ohio St. 8 Michigan 8 Notre Dame 6 Boston Coll. 6 North Carolina 5 West Virginia 4 Virginia 4 Stanford 2 California 2 Syracuse 2 Georgia 1 Mississippi 1 Nebraska 1 - So how about Florida? No other foreign program is getting anywhere near that kind of pull—the Gators have finished in the top 6 in 4+ star recruits landed in each of the past four years, including a second place finish last year-and what do you know they're also one of the most successful programs in recent years. I don't have the capacity to do a roster breakdown of another team in another conference, but you have to think there's a major advantage to being in one of the top three recruiting states and pulling in a large amount of talent from the slow, cold, northeast.
- What about Notre Dame and their "national" recruiting presence? The Irish has not done anywhere near the damage out east you would expect or have been lead to believe they can. They landed just six 4+ star recruits in four years from the area.
- As far as "eastern recruiting" goes for Ohio State and Michigan: OSU is pulling primarily from Pennsylvania and occasionally Maryland. Michigan is split primarily between Pennsylvania and New Jersey for whatever reason. Also, the DC-to-Illinois connection that was a big part of their rise seems to have dried up.
- Remember that infamous "How do leftovers taste, Penn State?" article? Yeah, not so much. Sure 2008 was a down year, but it was also a tiny class and therefore punished by the recruiting services. Penn State took the most 4+ recruits the year before, and they've taken the top number every year since.
So what does this all mean for expansion? Well the three realistic players—Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt—pulled a combined 25 players from these lists over a four year period. Penn State pulled 22. Only Pittsburgh is pulling a respectable number, and Rutgers is only one recruit ahead of Ohio State and Michigan in terms of top recruits from the Region. Syracuse had been GERG'd for years and at least has an excuse.
Would Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt pick up more or less eastern recruits as Big Ten members? These things are always impossible to say for sure. A lot of people who follow recruiting or comment on the general direction of the program make wild sweeping comments about recruiting that aren't backed by the data (the "Penn State Who?" article above serves as a prime example). My goal is to not suggest what I'm saying is inevitable in any way.
So logical although not necessarily inevitable thoughts: Well if you apply reverse Penn State basketball recruiting issues, which is that Penn State can't recruit basketball players out east because players want to play in their home region, you might suggest that joining the Big Ten would actually hurt the schools out east as ACC and non-jumpers now can provide something Rutgers and Pitt can't when they have to play west of Chicago every year. However, the more teams join the less of an issue this is.
The other potential issue, however, is that the door is now open for other Big Ten schools to get more exposure. I wouldn't think Ohio State or Michigan would get much of a jump as they're already super-national, but a school like Illinois or Minnesota would probably get a much larger net-increase in exposure which may or may not mean more recruits, although it certainly couldn't hurt.
This is probably less of an issue depending on divisions, however, and the size of the conference. If we have 14 schools, the western one's (or, if you please: the one's that won't include Penn State, Pitt and Rutgers) are going to be playing at any given eastern school one or two times a decade.
What would Penn State recruiting look like for a more-eastern facing Big Ten? Under the same qualifications as above, of course: probably the same. Penn State is already the biggest fish in this pond and they can't expect to lock down the east because no one, in any part of the country, is able to do that in the current recruiting environment.
The good news is I don't think adding eastern schools hurts Penn State recruiting. While they are already a national brand and well-represented out east because of alumni migration, they also can now advertise more games played near eastern towns where these recruits leave behind family and friends. If the logic goes that Penn State is boxed out of eastern basketball recruiting because of their league, then there are probably football recruits that reject an offer for the same reason. How many it's hard to say—Penn State's football traditions mitigate this substantially—but again, it doesn't seem as though it would be a harmful shift if eastern schools were added to the Big Ten.
And more importantly, it doesn't seem to present an opportunity for any school, current Big Ten member or new addition, to overtake or even gain substantially on Penn State's current pole position though expansion.
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Although I wish you would have looked at how our dominance in Eastern Canada could be affected.
by Illegal Formation on May 26, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Red'd for view to the future
International recruiting is just beginning, and Penn State is ahead of the game.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Actually
It’s Mexico…those recruits really bring the “Speed”.
by DerryPharmer on May 26, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I see what you mean.
If the south is fast, south of the south has to be REALLY fast.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
We have NO EXCUSE for not being a hockey powerhouse with our Canada connections.
We should be pulling in the likes of Lemieux, Beliveau, and Orr in every recruiting class.
FIRE ED ICERSGUY!
"I want your money, but I don't want your two cents." - JVP
by ReadingRambler on May 26, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
HIRE A BIG NAME COACH
Why can’t we get someone like Scotty Bowman?!?
by Illegal Formation on May 26, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at you getting all fired up
now that the football team has found this “new and exciting!” land for recruiting. Old hat, if you ask me. We prefer to test out more exotic locales for hockey recruiting, like Texas….
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
I think this is pretty spot on
in that PSU’s influence/recruiting won’t really change much. What I could see happening, as you said, is schools like the Illini and the Gophers gaining some traction, but I doubt it would really be much. I wonder, though, if these Eastern schools do join the Big Ten and are able to improve their position, if that would help revitalize college/high school football in the region.
It would be impossible to really tell, as it would be such a slow process (and who knows how new concussion studies will affect the future of the game), but if the introduction of teams like Rutgers, Syracuse and whomever else in the East raised the average quality of the HS players in the East, then that could definitely be an improvement for Penn State.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
LIke the point about growth, and the concussion thing is interesting.
Football still seems to be kind out east with the exception of some lacrosse schools near the coast and hockey way up in Boston. Neither of those sports or the more direct competition from soccer (same season) are likely to really gain ground. I do think that if the eastern schools are able to compete in the Big Ten you will see some impact in those immediate areas, but it seems kind of unfair from a resource and tradition perspective for them to have to go up against Penn State every year. Although the same could be said for Illinois, Indiana and Northwestern against Ohio State.
What I like about thinking through this is that it dismisses the “well this will have a positive impact on our recruiting” line you read on every blog every time anything happens. Recruiting is a zero-sum game, and getting Vandy on TV a little more often does not harm Tennessee (the schools they are competing with) and therefore exposure doesn’t equal better recruiting unless the exposure comes at the direct expense of your current peers and happens over a long period of time.
I know about your diabolical plan.
Part of it is perception.
Most recruiting sites have limited resources and have focused in the South and in California. A little-known recruit in the backwoods of Mississippi may be every bit as skilled as a kid in upstate New York, but the NY doesn’t have three scouts watching his games over the season. He’ll be lucky if he gets one scout looking at him. One gets a 5-star while the other gets 3 stars.
Concussions will be a bigger issue in terms of oversight of field and equipment quality. There is no standard for head impact concussion in the NCAA right now, and I’m certain there are a few fields that wouldn’t pass basic standards for autos and playgrounds. I should write up a fanpost on it.
good point about the perception-based recruit rankings
though I guess that is more to do with “are we getting more 4+ star recruits” or “are we getting more quality athletes”. I think both numbers could potentially rise if a few Eastern teams made the leap to the Big Ten and performed at above-doormat standards (which is yet to be seen).
In my scenario, say Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and UConn all make the leap, and at least 2 of those become contenders. This enhances the profile of college football in the northeast, and the trickle down effect takes hold, and high school football also sees a bump in interest. Not only will the coaching/competition (hopefully) improve, but now the recruiting sites also evaluate the region more, which causes positive feedback, further enhancing the quality.
Now it may not be realistic to expect the profile of these teams to increase that drastically just because they join the Big Ten, especially if they become doormats (Bloomington, IN, isn’t a particularly big football hotbed), so this is probably an exaggerated upside, but as far as Penn State recruiting in the northeast is concerned, I don’t see any real drawbacks.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

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