SB Nation Pittsburgh Editor's Pick
Assuming this is the end
by ckmneon on Jun 15, 2010 11:20 AM EDT
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...of conference realignment (and it seems to be for the time), let's examine the winners and losers:
The Clear Winners: The Big Ten, Nebraska, Texas, TAMU, Oklahoma
These are the groups that came out of all the expansion hoopla better than how they went in, and they know it.
The Big Ten got its 12th member, a probable championship game, and a school that in terms of academics, athletics, tradition, and TV ratings is a great fit and a boost to the league.
Nebraska ended up a winner too, in terms of both money and getting out from Texas' oppressive rule. Also, they'll join the CIC, which will be a huge boost to the school academically.
Texas got exactly what it wanted: a conference full of loyal subjects and big time money.
Oklahoma and Texas A&M may not have gotten everything they wanted, but they do come out with more money, and didn't have to leave for the more competitive pastures of the SEC to do it.
The Clear Losers: The Big 12
The Big 12 loses its conference championship game (NCAA rules state a league must have 12 members) and a lot of credibility, even if the efforts to save the league in some form were eventually successful. Perhaps the Big 12 will add Houston or Tulsa or Rice or someone of that ilk to salvage the conference championship game, but trading Nebraska for Tulsa is a clear loss regardless.
You lost, even if it doesn't feel like it or you don't know it yet: Colorado, Notre Dame
Colorado left a league it had a great deal of history with for less money in the Pac-10, a league that still doesn't have the requisite membership for a conference championship game. It probably will soon, but they get a giant Fail anyways.
Notre Dame is still making less money from television than Northwestern and Vanderbilt. That sentence never gets old. Also, with the prospect of 2 more superconferences around than when their deal was last negotiated (assuming the Pac-10 and Big 12 gobble the requisite number of mid-majors, which will lead to greater competition for TV time), combined with more of the same on the field, does ND really think their TV deal with NBC will be better next time around?
You didn't lose, even if you don't feel great right now: Missouri, The Pac-10
Mizzou, you're basically in the exact same spot you were 12 months ago. You weren't unhappy about your lot then, why would you be now? I know you were led to believe that the Big Ten was a done deal, and that sucks, but in the end, you're no worse off than you ever were.
As for the Pac-10, you gained Colorado and will probably add Utah, BYU, or some other Western mid-major and get your conference championship game, which will add money, and in terms of academics and competition, basically amount to par for the course in your league. You missed out on Texas, but Texas, if you couldn't tell by this whole process, is a total jerk, and was making you take Oklahoma State and Texas Tech too. Even then you know they didn't want equal revenue sharing.
The jilted and confused: The SEC
Apparently Texas A&M would rather get treated like garbage by Texas, for less money, than go for a huge win-win and join the SEC. Texas A&M is like the woman who chose her poor, abusive husband over the suave billionaire who promised her happiness. It must be confusing and a little insulting. For what it's worth, SEC, you were too good for her anyway.
Remarkably unscathed: Big East
Wait, wasn't the Big Ten supposed to absolutely raid this league? Or wasn't the ACC supposed to do the same after the SEC raided it? Didn't Troy Nunes is an Absolute Magician tear the conference commish apart because the league was being destroyed and he stood by and did nothing? The Big East was by far the weakest prey of any league, and has a handful of desirable members, and it remains intact? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?
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Just remember
According to tWWL’s talking heads, the B12 is actually much better off now. Sure they lost one of their cornerstone teams, the ability to play a championship game, and were exposed as being subservient to Texas — but they are better off without Colorado and Nebraska. They just are.
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
I'm starting to think adopting the Rambler policy
of not watching tWWL unless PSU is playing is a very solid idea.
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
I'm finally there. I tried it yesterday for about 3 minutes and it sucked.
tWWL is the complete grumpola of sports journalism. I will watch games on the channel but no more or their sports newspin. They don’t report, they stir.
I've been using that policy
since 2008 when Todd McShay called our O-line “average”. Maybe they weren’t all going to be good NFL linemen, but you can’t argue with their production that year, and we had the friggen Rimington Trophy winner and a bunch of solid guys.
McShay is supposed to be one of their “experts” but he clearly was talking out of his ass. Any national broadcaster will be, because they can’t watch any game, I understand that, but that just makes me avoid them for 99% of topics.
Also, they slobber all over the SEC and Big XII even when evidence to the contrary exists. Yes, the Big XII had some exciting offenses in 2008, but man did their defenses look completely inept even doing basic things.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends who you read/listen to
Cowherd today was blasting the Big 12 and Texas/Oklahoma. He conceded they got more money, but from here on out, neither team has a challenging away schedule. It’s a great point because I never thought of it, but Texas and Oklahoma play each other on neutral ground every year. Their most challenging away game now is what, Oklahoma State? Texas Tech? Yeesh, if they don’t schedule anyone out of conference, which Texas rarely ever does, the lineup is going to be pathetic. There is almost no excuse for Texas or Oklahoma to come out of the Big 12 unscathed in the future. They have the easiest path to the MNC of anybody. I’d love to see the rest of ESPN pick up on this and absolutely blast Texas and Oklahoma every season.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Cowherd is so give and take
Sometimes he’s dead on, sometimes I think he’s a complete moron with an outrageous left coast bias.
As far as Texas’ scheduling: nothing changes. If 2010 PSU had 2010 Texas’ schedule, PSU could fall asleep in August, wake up in December, and get ready for the BCS National Championship Game. Since nothing changes in terms of scheduling, will anything change in terms of praise from tWWL? I doubt it.
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
I'm kind of warming up to Cowherd...
as much as anyone can. I think a lot of what I find to be just ridiculous things he says might just be a bit.
Also, they do him no favors by letting people see him on TV. There’s little worse than a scrawny nerd talking about sports.
I wonder why you think Texas and Oklahoma are winners.
If I were a Texas fan I would be a little disappointed about losing nebraska, colorado, and a championship game. From my perspective all they got was a less stable and smaller conference. I may be overlooking something though.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
the fact that Texas got screwed out of the Big 12 championship game a couple of years ago
I’m sure now they rewrote the rules to include the first tie breaker goes to any school that ryhmes with “onghorns”
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
In other news
Baylor will be changing their mascot from the Bears to the Bonghorns.
by speedomike on Jun 15, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure I can think of a Haggard song to fit that.
"Now we can no longer hold back. It will be a terrible war." - Emperor Jim Delany I
by ReadingRambler on Jun 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The Twitter world today is teeming with news that the B12 CCG is a thing of the past.
Per Texas’ wishes, natch.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 15, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
They end up with more money
Other than that, it’s the status quo anti bellum
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
I live in Dallas, and the UT-centric people I run into have crazy talk about this. As in, “UT is the flagship program so the school deserves to receive 60% more money than the little 7,” and “Nebraska is horrible anyway so this makes the conference better,” and “this makes our games more appealing on TV.” Relative to the last, and as noted elsewhere, UT will play 1, maybe 2, competitive games a year. Otherwise, it’s a bunch of ISU, KSU, Baylor and Missouri. Yuck. The delusion around these here parts equals that from USC about the Reggie Bush sanctions.
I think Texas got what they wanted
More money, and for all intents and purposes, a return to the old SWC. The Big Ten may be a superior league in terms of academics, competition, and money, but if Texas would rather be the boss than be wealthy, that’s up to them.
The notion that the Big 12 is better off is hilariously wrong, but whatever.
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
I am totally and utterly shocked
about how complicit to UT’s wishes Oklahoma was in this whole process. You’d think a program with that much past success (regular season, anyway) and such a strong brand would want to impose their will a little bit, instead of being along for the ride with A&M and OkSU.
Agreed.
Oklahoma’s ad actually said something to the effect of “Wherever UT goes, we go.”
Um, what? Aren’t you one of the premier programs in college sports?
"Now we can no longer hold back. It will be a terrible war." - Emperor Jim Delany I
by ReadingRambler on Jun 15, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
well, how would this play out if it were OSU and Michigan right now
all the press would be about OSU cuz Michigan has been down lately, and OSU is just the more attractive option in general, so Michigan wouldn’t really be a power player, and would pretty much just have to follow OSU wherever.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 15, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think so...
It isn’t like OU has been that down have they? I think its just an acknowledgment of their place. Texas is much more powerful nationally than OU. The power is more evenly split between Michigan and OSU. Even though OSU is up now, they are not THAT far ahead in terms of power and influence.
Michigan isn't that down, either
I mean yes, 2 terrible years ,and probably a few more to come, but in general they’re an attractive “brand”.
Mostly, though, do you think they wouldn’t follow OSU around like a lost puppy, were OSU to be courted by another conference? Gotta keep the Game.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 16, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
where they finish 3rd in their division but have the No1 offense
by BMAN13 on Jun 28, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Now we can no longer hold back. It will be a terrible war." - Emperor Jim Delany I
by ReadingRambler on Jun 29, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I might add the MWC to the Loser or Semi-Loser status soon.
They add BSU to get to 10 teams and bolster their BCS argument, and then Utah is set to leave for the P10. They just traded Utah for BSU, which is essentially a wash in my book, and puts them right back outside the BCS door.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
But because of the Big 12's diminished stature
the status quo for the MWC may actually make them look better by comparison.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Jun 15, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Although if the Big 12 eventually plucks TCU,
then the MWC (and Boise by association) loses big.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Jun 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see
Utah to the Pac-10 and TCU to the Big 12, in which case the MWC is a big loser
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
Heck...
… if it ends up being BYU and TCU to the Big 12, Boise State is an inadvertent loser.
Not really
How is that any different than the WAC?
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
Presumably there are exit fees for the WAC
So they kept their situation the same, and paid for the privilege.
Playing BYU and TCU every year is still an improvement for Boise
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Jun 17, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like Kansas belongs in it's own category
You are a top 5 basketball program in the country and were fairly close to ending up in the Mountain West.
Maybe the “Phew!” Category.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
They might be saying that
but how much better (if, indeed, better at all) is the B12 minus Kansas than the Mountain West plus Kansas as a basketball league, anyway? TV time may have taken a short-term hit, but that’s really about it.
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
According to Massey
Quite a bit better. At least last year.
I don’t think of the Big 12 as a great basketball conference, but beyond Kansas you have Texas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma who have all been to the final four in the past decade. Plus Kansas State is now good (which bugs me), Texas A&M has become a pretty good program, and Missouri is usually pretty good.The MWC has some solid programs (BYU, Utah, UNLV, New Mexico) but there’s a pretty big drop after that. It’d definitely be a dropoff for Kansas.
Numbers don't lie, but they don't always tell the whole truth, either
but fair enough, I’m with you
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
If this is truly the end
then it will be the last we’ll hear of Chip Brown (economics).
by Mr. Rosewater on Jun 15, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd be offended at the comparison to one of our own if it weren't for the reason why she's famous.
In light of that, however, it’s oddly fitting.
"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler
by leeharvey418 on Jun 15, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were Delaney
I’d contact Texas and TAMU and say, “ok, here’s the deal. We wanted you guys, but have always had Mizzou as our backup plan (and let’s not forget Notre Dame). I know you say you are staying as the Big1T0welve, but you’ll still be making less money than us. We don’t want you guys to be feel forced into joining us, but we’re also going to make this one last offer to you guys before offering to Missouri, in which case, good luck to the Bi9Twelve.”
Considering the present news, that the exit fees paid by CU and NU are going to UT, A&M and OU only, the Big 10 wants nothing to do with UT, now or in the future. The Big 10 members simply can’t get into business with that school.
probably not (if all that is true)
however, who are Texas, A&M, and OU getting those fee shares from? And apparently TTU and OKSt are displeased, so basically the only schools willingly going along with this are schools that were at risk of going down to mid-major status, in which case they’ll still be making more money now than had Texas and co left.
If Texas came up to the Big Ten and tried to boss around Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc, I don’t see that flying. And Nebraska too?
Right now Texas is like the undisciplined child who always gets its way, but the Big Ten is more of a regimented family, and would quickly put them in their place.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 15, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Big East isn't safe yet
Not by a long shot.
By all accounts, including Delany, the Big Ten only acted on Nebraska because events forced it to. I don’t think this changes anything in terms of how the Big Ten looks at the Big East, especially in terms of pushing Notre Dame.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 15, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions
Perhaps not
but it’s not out of the question that after the integration of the Nebraska, the Big Ten will see itself in a really great place and not do anything.
To know I can trust this fix of injustice time after time
I think you right
I think the 12-18 month study is still in progress and Nebraska was just too good of a fit not to accept them now, on their timetable. Big Ten isn’t done and everyone knows it. Bebee’s fake numbers are going to show up in the next year and all involved know it. ND breathes a sigh of relief but they know the writing’s on the wall.
If this is the end .........
………then from a PSU fan perspective I am bit disappointed. While Nebraska is a very good football addition, this move just shifts the geographic center of the conference even further west.
I was really hoping for an eastern school, Syracuse, Rutgers, Maryland etc.. someone/anyone to shore up the recruiting and make PSU more relevant to the East Coast.
Veni, Vidi, Vici - Julius Caesar 47 BC
very true, we’ll see how this plays out ………From a conference standpoint it was a great move by the Big Ten to add Nebraska, selfishly I would have preferred Pitt or Syracuse
Veni, Vidi, Vici - Julius Caesar 47 BC
I am in the same boat raven but I have a feeling that this is it
"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith
by psu in the w-b on Jun 15, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
if Pitt or Syracuse or any of the other Big East schools are worth getting
then we will get them.
Is it arrogance when it is true?
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 15, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
An Eastern school hurts PSU, not helps it
recruiting n’at.
“Son, do you want to play OSU, UM, and UNL? or do you want to play Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and WVU?”
Good point
but if PSU is not on TV in NY, NJ, or MD is does have an affect
Veni, Vidi, Vici - Julius Caesar 47 BC
We came , We saw , We conquered
Texas A&M
What really shocked me in this whole process is how much power TAM was able to have over the Big 12 conference. I never imagined how big of a player they were and how sought after a program they are.
I mean this is a football program that has had one good season this entire decade. A program with a record in the 2000s of 63-59. An appropriate comparison to a Big 10 team would be Michigan State which was 60-62 in the same time frame and who also plays little brother to one of the power brokers in the conference.
Now, can anyone even fathom Michigan State being one of the biggest players in the Big 10 conference? One of the biggest moneymakers and one of the programs who gets to call the shots?
From an SEC fan:
I don’t feel jilted. The reasons we wanted Texas A&M were for financial gain and to keep up with other conferences possibly expanding beyond 12 members. For fans, the former doesn’t really matter. And the megaconfernces don’t look like they going to happen for the time being.
We’re extremely happy with the status quo, and we actually dodged a potential bullet, i.e. the realignment problem. The SEC (at least for football) is balanced extremely well with 3 major powers in each division and the top two teams (in terms of SEC CG appearances and victories over the last 20 years) in opposite divisions. All while maintaining traditional rivalries.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
SEC realignment
The SEC seems balanced right now, with one top 10 all time team and a couple other solid programs in each division, but this was not always the case. For the duration of the mid to late 90s, the SEC West was the Big 12 North of the last several years.
I agree that the SEC dodged a bullet (expansion beyond 12 teams for the Big Ten and Pac 10 might have forced the SEC to expand, but 1)How? and 2)Like you said, the divisions), but the fact that TAMU chose to get pushed around by Texas for less money than they would have in the SEC is confusing.
Idle talk and hollow promises; cheating Judases; doubting Thomases
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