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Penn State History: The Lehigh Lashing

On November 11, 1889, Penn State suffered their worst loss in football history falling to Lehigh 106-0. And it might have been worse if the Lehigh head coach and the official had not decided to mercifully end the game with five minutes to go. By today's standards it seems unbelievable that the Nittany Lions could fall to the Mountain Hawks by such a lopsided score, but there are explanations. Part of it was due to a masterful strategy by Lehigh, and part of it was due to poor scheduling and just dumb luck. There might have been a little extortion involved too.

The forward pass was still several years away from being invented in 1889, so offenses basically consisted of a mass of players pushing their way down the field. The most feared formation was the dreaded "Flying Wedge", and Lehigh coach Jake Robeson coached it better than anyone.

The flying wedge was basically a formation where blockers formed a circle around the ball carrier and locked arms. Then they pushed their way down the field punching, kicking, and stomping everything in their path. When run effectively, there was little that the defense could do to bring down the ball carrier. In fact, the best defense anyone could come up with was to throw themselves into the legs of the lead blockers hoping to trip them up and bring the wedge to a stop. When the Penn State players returned to campus after the game, guard Charlie Aull said, "We couldn't get at the son-of-a-bitch with the ball." 

 

 

Star-divide

In the days before helmets and pads, the wedge was an extremely dangerous tactic. It was quite common for players to be seriously injured or killed in trying to defend it. In fact, several of the rules in place today originated from attempts to outlaw the wedge. This is why seven men must be on the line of scrimmage and only one man is allowed in motion parallel to the line of scrimmage prior to the snap.

It's quite possible that the Penn State players were pretty tired and banged up prior to the game. That's because they played a game against Lafayette just two days earlier. It was pretty common to play a few games as part of a road trip back then. There were no charter jets. Heck, the automobile was still about ten years away, and interstate highways wouldn't come around for almost another 60 years. In order to get out of State College, the players, and any fans that accompanied them, had to ride by stage coach out to the train station in Lemont, which is roughly where modern day Route 322 meets East College Avenue. From there they had to ride by train 60 miles to Lewisburg, which took several hours. From there they could pick up a train to Philadelphia. Once in the Philadelphia, it was common to see them play a few teams in order to keep the travel time and costs down. And as you can imagine, getting teams to come to State College was like pulling teeth. Who wants to take a three or four day trip up into the mountains when you have several universities you can play right there in the Philadelphia area?

After the game against Lafayette and prior to the game against Lehigh, Penn State captain Charles Hildebrand and two other players went to Philadelphia to attend the funeral of Hildebrand's younger sister. The three men did not make it back to the game until the first half was nearly complete, and Penn State was forced to start the game with just nine players. Lehigh had rolled up a 56-0 lead by halftime. In retrospect, the Penn State players said they probably should have waited until their teammates arrived, but Lehigh had threatened to withhold Penn State's travel compensation of $25 if the game didn't start on time. Football was not a revenue generating sport back then, and $25 was a lot of money. Especially for some poor college kids that needed the money to buy their train tickets back to State College.

Thankfully, none of the Penn State players died or suffered serious injury against the wedge that day, though you can be sure it was a long train ride back to State College. Two weeks later they defeated hated rival Bucknell 12-0 on the Old Main lawn on Thanksgiving Day to salvage a 2-2 season. But they didn't get another crack at revenge against Lehigh until 1901. Penn State won that game 38-0.

(H/T to Lou Prato's Penn State Football Encyclopedia from which much of this information was found.)

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This is why I rooted for Kansas!

"Now we can no longer hold back. It will be a terrible war." - Emperor Jim Delany I

by ReadingRambler on Jun 28, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

In our defense

Mountain Hawks look pretty badass.

Crack is wac

by jtothep on Jun 28, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

How about a picture of a badass engineer?

Lehigh was known as the Engineers (rival of the Boilermakers!) until 1995. A lot of Lehigh Alums (maybe “old man Euler” was a Lehigh grad,too) were “up in arms” over the proposed name and mascot change. Some threatened witholding their donations!

In retrospect, a “Flying Wedge” of eleven Mountain Hawks would be pretty hard to stop. Lions can jump but not very high!

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

hey, that looks like my pic!!

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why the name change?

Were engineers lobbying the federal government over the wrongful use of their heritage to inspire spirit at organized physical activities?

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 28, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

just a guess

I’ll bet “Engineers” was hurting admissions. Kids that wanted to major in business or education probably looked at Lehigh and said, “They’re a good engineering school, but what else do they do?”

And in this day of political correctness, the art history majors probably pitched a hissy fit that people called them Engineers. Cuz engineers are terribly boring people.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why else

Why else would you go to Lehigh? It’s an engineering school and arguably one of the best in the country.

And engineers are not terribly boring people. Those engineers at Lehigh knew how to party. It was of the general opinion that if they didn’t go all out crazy on weekends they’d lose their minds from all the studying.

But then again what do I know. I didn’t have the grades for Lehigh….NERDS!

by buk110 on Jun 28, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too.

Well, still in school, for another semester, but EIT certified and all that.

Currently on a computer in Sackett none the less….sob…

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Jun 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

As for the defense....

Engineers do not need a defense.

Ever hear the phrase, don’t f*&% with people who handle your food? Well its kind of like that. Don’t mess with engineers. We handle everything in your life. Your house, car, the roads you drive on, the water you drink and the air you breathe. Your electricity, fuel and energy sources. Everything.

If you don’t like engineers, you can….

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Jun 28, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was once an engineer, so I have to rec.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jun 29, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Engineers make business students feel inadequate. I remember we had to do a senior design project and team up with the senior business students. The engineers spent 20-30 hours a week on their project for 4 credits that semester. The business students whipped together a presentation and a 20 page report the night before everything was due. For the same 4 credits.

I’m not saying all business students are like that, but these ones were.

by millzners on Jun 28, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds familiar

My junior year I rented an apartment with four other guys. We were all engineers except for one guy who was an education major. He thought we were all pretty boring because we never wanted to go out drinking, and he couldn’t understand why we got so annoyed when his education major friends were hanging out in our apartment until 2 AM on a Tuesday night. Then at the end of the semester he would speed read a few books, spend a weekend writing some papers, and then he spent finals week drinking his ass off while we all sweat bullets.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even worse

Two of my roomates were elementary education majors. So not only did they have the workload you described above, they were the only 2 guys in their classes. Filled with 20-30 attractive women with not a lot of work to do. So yeah.

My math major a$$ was jealous. Attractive girls? Forget it. We were lucky if we had girls, period.

"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."

by PSUtopia on Jun 28, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's worse...

was cut and paste day. Why do elementary ed majors think think can just leave open bottles of paste and cuttings from thier latest construction paper project all over the place.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 29, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

As a Smeal graduate

I can attest to the more “economical” approach to school from the business students. Then again, it falls to the professors/class-layout as well – the greater majority of the grades were based on tests, while projects/homework were extremely rare if even done at all (I had a number of classes that based the entire grade on 3-4 exams).

"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."

by IcersGuy on Jun 28, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell, in law school

9 times out of 10 your grade was based 100 percent on the final exam.

Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.

by jesse. on Jun 28, 2010 4:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Grad school in history was usually either one massive paper per course or a bunch of semi massive ones.

However, at the end was one comp test of five essays on anything they could choose. pass or fail. It was a 6 hour marathon hand written.

"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith

by psu in the w-b on Jun 28, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that 1/10 left was seminars.

Awesome.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jun 30, 2010 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

My fresman year...

still on quarter system…I had 13 credits and went to class like 26 hours a week. My finance roommate had 10 credits and went to class 12 hours!

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had a few similar semesters

mainly ones with big lab courses involved, where the class would be for 3 or 4 credits, but require 10 hours of in-lab time (plus all the prep work and lab write-ups).

I don’t remember exactly what my ratio was, but I remember getting quite annoyed at one of my roommates for (seriously) giving me a hard time about my “easy” semester of only like the minimum 12 credits compared to his 17 or 18 credit workload, even though I was in class for about 10 more hours a week than he was.

by The JuggerNitt on Jun 28, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah

When I was still in Architecture, I was amazed that I could have a 4 credit class, but we met for 10+ hours a week when a typical 4 credit class was what 3.5 hours?

Also….Screw labs..they seriously screw up the scheduling process by taking up a big chunk of time.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Jun 28, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh...labs

My senior Chem E lab was horrible. We had a sneaky suspicion the ChE faculty had it in for our class. In our junior year a group of people in my class went to the Dean to complain about a professor’s teaching habits. They guy was bad. I swear he had A.D.D. and couldn’t finish a thought before moving on to the next one. And his handwriting was terrible. You couldn’t make out anything he wrote on the board. He was clearly there at PSU just to pursue his research, but still, I didn’t think it was a good idea to confront the dean about him and I didn’t take part. The professor was pretty pissed off about it and chewed us out after it was done.

That senior year the lab was extremely tough. If you asked the professor for help you basically got a smart comment about how you should know the answer. You would kill 20 hours out of your week putting together your report and get a 25/100 on it.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

ugh

i hear ya! ChE ’07. Not much personality in that department. Fenske was my LIFE for a long time. I felt like a dungeon rat most of the time.

"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who

by afields16 on Jun 28, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think every engineering department had at least one super tough, bad prof.

In an upper level statistics class in Industrial Engineering, we had a guy who flunked bout 1/2 the class n the first exam. He refused to talk to the students (I, for some reason, did well). He was a real jerk. However, the guys went and got some sort of compromise retake it or something to keep their GPA’s up and get credit for the class.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dr Knott?

He was a super old school machinist who lived for killing students (God rest his soul).

Hats and shorts had no place in his classroom. At least he didn’t let the female engineers get away with wearing skirts to class either.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 29, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Something like that...

looking back I still have no idea what that class was about.

My C++ class was taught by a Dr. Kamura who laid it out in class one – I’m here for research – undergrads are a giant waste of my time – yet I’m forced to teach you little punks. I hate you all and will treat you accordingly.

The there was Dr. Bandhiopudhia (or something like that). How do you learn triple integrals from someone you can’t understand?

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 29, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeh!

I had Sebastian Polo from Argentina for Physics. Not only couldn’t I understand Physics, I couldn’t understand him (at all).

It was funny, however, when he tried to do a demonstration. Something always went klablooey. He’d just look at the contraption like WTF!

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 29, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that there is anything wrong with Japanese people

But the accent and certain words in calculus just do not mix well no matter how smart the person is.

by BMAN13 on Jun 30, 2010 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had one professor

that whenever he said “alpha” it came out as “orfa”. I think I went over half the semester before I figured it out, and suddenly a LOT more made sense.

by The JuggerNitt on Jun 30, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had a TA from India that kept saying perPANNEDlicker

It took me three weeks to realize he was saying perpendicular.

by Frank O'Brien on Jun 30, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

We MEs ('06) didn't have any particularly bad profs, at least that I came across.

We had one guy (Eric Marsh) who was absolutely hysterical because he was clearly a mad scientist. I went to meet with him when he was on sabbatical to discuss a 400-level class he was teaching the next semester, and I found him in his office with the lights off with no shoes and his chair pushed against a wall.

The other thing to qualify my statement is that I only took car-oriented courses. Vibrations, noise reduction, vehicle dynamics. So all the guys I had were “car guy” types.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jun 30, 2010 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hate professors who say "you should know the answer"

when they are teaching the material. Now maybe if it was a very basic concept covered in pre-reading material, but guess what, you job is to TEACH, not to act smug and condescending. If it was that easy, then we wouldn’t need professors.

I had one prof at PSU where the answer to every question was some form of “my mother could do this” or “even the campus squirrels know this answer” but he wouldn’t then give the actual answer. I stopped going to class somewhere around halfway because it was useless, and I just used the book. I had him for 2 semesters (Biochem I and Biochem II) and I didn’t even go to Biochem II because I knew I wouldn’t get anything out of the class. In hindsight I kinda wish I did, just to know what material he actually focused on, but meh. I heard from another professor a few years ago that he lost his job due to poor evaluations.

by The JuggerNitt on Jun 28, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would get so heated

I had an 8am lab every semester, for 3 hours twice a week, where I would walk in and the prof. would hand us a piece of paper that said “build this circuit and get this data.” Then spend the rest of the 3 hours chit chatting and belittling us for questions like “WTF is a transistor, we haven’t covered them in any class yet” Hahahaha that’s funny. What’s a transistor. Good stuff. FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!

What I learned was that by my senior year, I didn’t even talk to the prof running the lab, we would form super teams of 6-8 students and all share information and work together and solve these things with little to no prof. interaction. I think the goal was to force us to be independent and fight for ourselves…

The question becomes, why couldn’t they just tell us that ahead of time that was the point instead of acting like jerks?

by millzners on Jun 29, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

"I think the goal was to force is to be independent and fight for ourselves"

no, they were just lazy. Maybe your independence was a beneficial side effect, but I doubt it was intentional.

by The JuggerNitt on Jun 29, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

you just described the entire math department

"He's a beast. But so am I. So let the beasting begin."

by PSUtopia on Jun 29, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1 my friend.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Jun 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right.

Over the years, Lehigh had “morphed” from an Engineering School with a few other majors (so the engineers could “drop into”) to being a “University” with a variety of majors. They also had to have some majors where the wrestlers could matriculate. So they became a University.

To attract the kind of students they wanted into the business and other programs, they had to change the name from “Engineers”.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

saw a huge red tailed hawk up close on my trail run on Sunday

I think we scared the shit out of each other. Thing was massive.

by Tailgate Shogun on Jun 28, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

7 men on the line.

Despite my username, I had no idea where that rule came from. Another great historical nugget Mike!

No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.

by Illegal Formation on Jun 28, 2010 11:46 AM EDT reply actions  

The flying wedge is great

I would like to see it, we could bust it out vs alabama. I would also like to see us play an OOC game against lehigh, revenge is a dish best served cold.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jun 28, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn’t put it past Curley. Then Guido could orchestrate “1889 day.”

No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.

by Illegal Formation on Jun 28, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Best idea of the day

We could probably beat them 106-0 if Joe kept his foot on the pedal the entire game.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Missed a minor detail in the post

They rode by train from Lemont to Lewisburg. Not by stage coach. Not sure that was clear. I edited the post to reflect that.

Interesting note: PSU played a lot of their “home” games in Williamsport back then because teams didn’t want to go to the effort of going all the way to State College.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

that is a great fact

"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith

by psu in the w-b on Jun 28, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great story....

About a year before I was done, “they” outlawed flying-wedges, flying-blocks and flying-tackles….I am sure that the flying tackles still exist (see: Lavar Leap, et al.). Teddy Roosevelt was instrumental in helping College FB reform, thusly I only played 1-year without a face mask and no, I never met Teddy….the closest I ever got to a Roosevelt was Grier.

by DerryPharmer on Jun 28, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

re: the closest I ever got to a Roosevelt was Grier.

But Lech Walesa provided the in to the meetngreet, right?

Crack is wac

by jtothep on Jun 28, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Close...

but actually it was JohnPaul II while he was Cardinal of Krakow….actually Not, but it makes for a good yarn…the ironic part of the meeting with Lech was it was sitting down with some Polish guy and having lunch…no pretension at all.

by DerryPharmer on Jun 28, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dziekuje!

Tak, to prowda. Poznalem go po tymjak zostal Presydentem. Moze bede sie powiedziec cala historie w szczegolach riedys. It may be more “pig” Polish than not but I hope to.

by DerryPharmer on Jun 29, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Translation please LOL

"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith

by psu in the w-b on Jun 29, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Essentially....

it means that…Thank You! I met with him (Lech—I call him by his 1st name like we’re big Buds!) and talked a few months after he was out of office. I hope that someday we may meet and I can give you some of the history of the meeting.

by DerryPharmer on Jun 30, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

cool

"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith

by psu in the w-b on Jun 30, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It must have been an experience.

"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith

by psu in the w-b on Jun 30, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

a screen is a toned down version of the flying wedge

they just need a couple of tight ends to join the other lineman and there you go.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jun 28, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa

Good find. What about this:

1883—Safety 1, touchdown 2, goal after TD 4, goal from field 5.
So a PAT was worth twice as much as a TD, and a field goal was worth the most? Am I reading this right?

No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.

by Illegal Formation on Jun 28, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

correct

kicking wasn’t as automatic as it is today. They used the drop kick and the fields were pretty much a huge patch of mud.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

another thing

I tried to look this up but I was unsuccessful so I left it out. I believe the rules in the day said that if you scored, you got the ball back on the kickoff. So a team could keep racking up touchdown after touchdown and you would never get the ball.

100 BSD bucks to someone who can find this rule. I’m sure I read it somewhere, but I don’t know what date the rule took effect where you had to kick off to the other team after scoring.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW
In 1881, the rules were modified so that a goal kicked from a touchdown took precedence over a goal kicked from the field in breaking ties.3

In 1882, four touchdowns were determined to take precedence over a goal kicked from the field. Two safeties were equivalent to a touchdown.3

In 1883, points were introduced to football, and a touchdown counted as 4 points. A goal after a touchdown also counted as 4 points.3

In 1889, the provision requiring the ball to actually be touched to the ground was removed. A touchdown was now scored by possessing the ball beyond the goal line.3

In 1897, the touchdown scored 5 points, and the goal after touchdown added an additional point.3

In 1900, the definition of touchdown was changed to include situations where the ball becomes dead on or above the goal line.3

In 1912, the value of a touchdown was increased to 6 points. The end zone was also added. Before the addition of the end zone, forward passes caught beyond the goal line resulted in a loss of possession and a touchback.3 (The increase from 5 points to 6 did not come until much later in Canada, and the touchdown remained only 5 points there until 1956.)

The ability to score a touchdown on the point-after attempt (two-point conversion) was added to NCAA football in 1958, high school football in 1969, and the NFL in 1994


by PSUhomer on Jun 28, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sometimes I forget the NFL didn’t have a 2-point conversion until the mid-90’s. That seems outrageous to me.

by millzners on Jun 28, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Walter Camp's 1889-90 Football Rules and Referee's Book excerpt

Rule 1.(d). A kickoff is a place kick from the centre of the field, and cannot score a goal.

You can buy this book on ebay for $139.00,

by Frank O'Brien on Jun 28, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

That’s a tough assignment. Everything I read about Walter Camp attributes him with the ‘possession rule’ of down and distance, allowing a team to maintain possession until they score or turn it over or fail to make a 1st down or opt to punt, but 35mins of googling for me also didn’t turn up much in the way of rule changes affecting what happens after the score. Except this tidbit in a description of (the original) The Game:

"During kickoff plays, teams made use of a loophole in the old rule that required the offense to kick the ball, but did not specify that the receiver had to be on the opposing team. Amos Alonzo Stagg, a Yale All-American in 1889 and later one of the game’s greatest coaches, recalled that “the subterfuge was conceived of inch-kicking,” whereby the kicker made an “inch kick” to himself, thus retaining possession of the ball. He would then hand it back to a teammate in a play called the V-wedge, “and the slow-moving mass of players clinging to one another moved forward in a slow lock-step run. The strategy was to open an aperture at a certain point of the wedge, through which the imprisoned runner would dart.”

Could it be the rule to kick off to the opponent after a score was always there (as early as 1880), and maybe we need to be searching for when the abolition of this ‘inch-kick’ practice occurred? Maybe it went the way of the dodo, albeit quietly, during the changes Teddy Roosevelt prompted after all the flying wedge fatalities, right about the time of the introduction of the forward pass, circa 1906? All speculative, to be sure….

by Semanticron on Jun 28, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be

Maybe that’s why the kickoff has to go ten yards now before the kicking team can recover it.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know why I didn't think of this before

I have a call in to my buddy Lou Prato. Let’s see what he says.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was correct

I spoke to Lou Prato tonight. He confirmed that there was a time when the team that scored got the ball back on the kickoff. He couldn’t remember the exact date that was done away with, but he confirmed that he discovered that in his research.

I want to say it was somewhere around 1900 they did away with it.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish I could just call Lou Prato whenever I want.

"Now we can no longer hold back. It will be a terrible war." - Emperor Jim Delany I

by ReadingRambler on Jun 28, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

200 Shrute bucks for you?

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jun 28, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh good follow-up

Way to tap the resources. So does the 100 BSD bucks for a linkable citation describing when the the rule changed to kick off to the opponent instead of from the opponent following a score remain an active reward?

You brought in Lou Prato. I’m gonna bring in these guys:

by Semanticron on Jun 29, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure

I’ll give you a million BSD bucks if you want.

by BSD on Jun 29, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I better stick to 100

I just read Sway and learned how increased monetary incentives can cause irrational behavior.

by Semanticron on Jun 29, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Saw an interesting clip on Bronko Nagurski on the NFL channel.

From the 30’s when he played for the Chicago Bears. It was wierd to see the players and those small helmets with no face masks. What was wierder was that several of the players did not even wear helmets. Course, they never blocked by leading with their head in those days. They just kind of pushed the other guy.

Photobucket

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I wonder if players could actually have been safer without helmets

Especially when you see this about Chris Henry. I have played rugby quite a bit and saw some guys get knocked out, but as a rule we didn’t get many head injuries. Compare that with high school football when I got my bell rung a few times and once couldn’t remember anything from the game or the ride home after.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jun 28, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read Super Freakonomics

In the book the authors talk about how as technology is employed to make football helmets safer, the number of concussions and head injuries goes up. They have given players a sense of invisibility, and so they play more wrecklessly which leads to more injuries.

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

* invincibility

ha, if players thought they were invisible I imagine we’d see a lot more creative plays.

by SlingStone on Jun 28, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I never bought that argument – the size difference between players pre/post helmets is just huge.

It’s simple physics. I doubt “playing reckless” or “not reckless” is much more than a few percent effect in terms of impact speed. 50% increase in weight, though – that’s a big deal.

So if you want to blame anything, blame free substitution. That’s what really exploded player sizes.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Jun 28, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of it has to do with the feeling of invincibility

which leads to a lot of leading with the helmet. I imagine if players weren’t wearing helmets, the head would not be a prominent weapon.

Still, a lot of the problems I’ve read about are sub-concussive forces on the line, and I’m not sure how much the helmet really affects line play.

by The JuggerNitt on Jun 28, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the head is frequently used as a weapon enough for it to be a problem. It’s mainly just the jarring caused by sudden impacts, and those happen all the time.

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Jun 28, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Back then...

The big guys were generally very slow and really not too strong. So, you rarely got hit really hard.

Nowadays, guys are so fast and so strong that when they hit you, especially in the head, it’s a serious thing.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi

by PaJoe on Jun 28, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

Helmets are built to protect what is inside them. But players know that the outside of the helmet can be used as an effective weapon without fear of hurting themselves.

There is something to be said for playing with little or no head protection. When was the last time you heard about somebody getting speared in a rugby match?

by BSD on Jun 28, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, a helmut does

a good job of keeping your skull from breaking, but nothing towards your grey matter sploshing about inside.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 28, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ding, ding, ding

Get it? Double entendre? Anyway, this is going to be THE point going forward. Weapons, schmeapons, helmuts, schmelmuts. You got head impact? You got brain impact with head. That’s about all I need to hear. (but I’ll keep listening)

Crack is wac

by jtothep on Jun 28, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

f'n'A You can protect bone structure all you want

Inertia has an affect on the gray stuff that makes us function. Very basic physics is why football players will always have concussion problems.

by BMAN13 on Jun 28, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

1889?

What happened in 1889 regarding the forward pass? As far as I know it wasn’t legalized until 1906, at the behest of Theodore Roosevelt (and against Walter Camp’s suggestions – he preferred widening the field which, of course, led to rugby).

by Bleed Blue 'n White on Jun 28, 2010 5:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Get them back on the schedule!

I have a friend who is clamoring for our cupcake 1AA game to be against someone from PA: Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Villanova, Pitt, Penn. Truly get back to our roots.

If we’re going to trounce someone from a lower division, why not keep the money in state? Plus, at least some of their fans will show up, unlike when Eastern Illinois overtakes the town during their visit.

by Tailgate Shogun on Jun 28, 2010 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree, keep the money in the state

though I heard a lot of those schools turned PSU down.

by BMAN13 on Jun 28, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Lord

I’d pay a king’s ransom to see PSU do something like a 9 home and 1 away at Villanova, just for the away at Villanova. The sight of Nittany Nation invading this “well I never!” town and urinating/fornicating in the yards of Philadelphia’s old wealth families would be a thing of beauty. Add in the area’s version of the Keystone Kops, the Radnor Township Police, and this area would take longer to recover than New Orleans.

by MainLion on Jun 29, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

not a shot they offer them a 9 and 1

why would they when directional state will give them 10 home and 0 away

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face

by psupride on Jun 29, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya gotta have the one

so there would be the comedic legend described by MainLion.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jun 29, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, wait:

Did no one see what I did here? I listed all of the 1AA schools in Pennsylvania…. and included PITT.

HILARIOUS.

Seriously, guys. I’m not going to break out the comedy gold on this site if you aren’t even going to get the jokes.

by Tailgate Shogun on Jun 30, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

They seemed to fit...

They were put in the middle of teams on their level… gosh.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jun 30, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

We call it...

maize, you call it corn…You call it Pitt, I call it sPitt.

by DerryPharmer on Jun 30, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

The mark of a true gold comedian

is the disregard for the crickets. Stay strong!

(the veal’s yummy)

Crack is wac

by jtothep on Jun 30, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I noticed and did a little chuckle on the inside

It was funny so good job there.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 1, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

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