Tradition Dawns
It was a crisp Saturday this past fall when I, your humble blogger, awakened to the sunlight peaking through the shades of my suburban Pittsburgh home. I rolled over, grabbed my Y2K style flip phone, and immediately sent out my customary "Happy Gameday" text to the customary people, receiving the customary, mildly annoyed "Thanks" in return.
Only for me, this game day was different from the type I was used to.
I spent my childhood shipping up Route 22 most Saturdays in the fall to a place called Happy Valley. Though neither of my parents attended Penn State, I got into Nittany Lion football the way most do as kids, through family and friends. So taken was I by the atmosphere of the place from the time I was a little boy that by my teenage years, it was pretty much a given that I'd attend Penn State for college.
And yet, rather than waking up in my messy dorm room in East Halls on the morning of October 10, 2009 to enjoy Penn State's beat down of Eastern Illinois at Beaver Stadium, I was at home, getting ready to head into Oakland, then eventually Pittsburgh's North Side Shore to watch the Pitt Panthers play Connecticut at Heinz Field.
You won't find a lot of people that would make that trade, but anyone familiar with my stance on games against I-AA opponents can probably understand the move. Regardless though, it wasn't the "traditional" kind of thing you'd expect a Penn State student to do, given my school's history with Pitt.
After a quick shower, I found myself in the first conundrum of the day: what to wear. I'd fully intended to bust out as much blue and white as possible, but that was quickly shot down by my best friend, a lovely Pitt nursing student who'd been kind enough to get me a $5 ticket to sit in her student section. So I behaved. Not willing to sell out completely though, I grabbed a Nittany Nation shirt from the drawer and pulled an Indiana hoodie over top of it before busting out the door.
Next thing I knew, I was standing on a street corner in Oakland, waiting patiently as the other best friend, a Duquesne music education major, searched feverishly for something "Pitt" to wear to the game. Amongst the blue and gold threads she was pouring through were the proverbial "Friends don't let friends go to Happy Valley" and "State Penn" t-shirts which apparently sell like hot cakes. With a smug chuckle, I left following my friends to the school buses that would shuttle us to the Ketchup Bottle.
When kickoff arrived, I got a crash course in Pitt student section etiquette. You sit during timeouts. When Pitt gets a first down, you do a cheer. And apparently when Pitt is losing, you sit quietly in your seat.
Not me.
With Pitt down two scores late in the third quarter, there I stood in a sea of apathy, trying desperately all the while sarcastically to rally the Pitt students to cheer for their damn football team like the often maligned in these parts Penn State students. But it was to no avail. It wasn't until "Sweet Caroline" blared from the public address speakers at the end of the quarter that the students came alive.
Pitt rallied in the fourth quarter, and beat Connecticut on a field goal as time expired. Joy in Mudville. As we walked down the ramps out of the stadium, "Penn State Sucks! Penn State Sucks! Penn State Sucks," poured from the suddenly enthusiastic students. After perhaps their best win of the season, and on their way to one of their best seasons in the last 25, all the Pitt students could do was celebrate their hate of Penn State.
Tempted as I was to make a sarcastic comment, I kept quiet, and simply laughed at the irony of it all.
Pitt students, to this day, lament the dormant state of the Pitt-Penn State football series. They lament the fact that their school's traditional rival is no longer on their schedule. Ironically, though, they don't lament the loss of far greater traditions, legitimate icons of their school's history. How many of those students chiding Penn State that day actually remember games in this place? 
I'm not thinking many, probably because the space where Pitt Stadium once stood is now home to Pitt's multi-million dollar basketball venue, the Petersen Events Center. The new building has brought about unprecedented success for Pitt basketball, something the school's students today treasure. While I'm sure there are a lot of Pitt alumni out there that miss Pitt Stadium, the average Pitt student today doesn't, but, and this is where you'll find me in disagreement with many who argue the shortfalls of conference expansion and how it will affect "traditions," there's nothing wrong with that.
Where Pitt-Penn State and Pitt Stadium are symbols of Pitt's past, Pitt-West Virginia, big time basketball games at "The Pete" and "Sweet Caroline" are Pitt's traditions today.
Who's to tell Pitt students they can't enjoy that?
A little closer to home, let's look at our own Dear Old State. Many of the readers on this site are advanced in age enough to remember the days of Penn State's eastern football independence. The big matchups of those times came against the likes of Maryland, Syracuse, West Virginia, and Pitt. Students threw marshmallows in the student section in the shadow of Mt. Nittany, before the upper deck in the south endzone blocked if from view.
Those days are gone.
Today, we have Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa and the Big Ten Conference. We have Paternoville...
And the whiteout...
This is the Big Ten era at Penn State, and I'd argue very few Penn State fans like me, who have grown up with the ups and downs of it in the last 20 years, would want it any other way.
In the past, we've talked about games at Rec Hall here at BSD. As a student of the university, hearing stories about games in that old barn are great. I love them. I love the posts we do about Penn State history, too. All of those things are part of what the university I love so dearly IS, not just where it's been.
That said, I'm not bothered by not living through those times, and not getting to experience those moments. I'd rather enjoy living what we are now.
That's why as the rapidly approaching era of super conferences dawns, threatening to change the things I grew up with as a Penn Stater a little, if not a lot, I don't worry about it. And I certainly don't fight it like fans at some schools and folks like Dan Wetzel.
Conference expansion is about to forever alter college athletics: destroying traditions, hammering taxpayers and increasing competition.
Bull crap.
All it will do is change traditions and create new ones, things the next generation of college sports fans will grow up loving and celebrating.
By the time Penn State takes on Alabama on September 11, the Lions will have faced three of their historic rivals in the last four years: Alabama, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. Those traditional rivalries aren't dead, they've merely changed a little. Some day, Pitt and Penn State will renew their rivalry, too. Will it be the annual autumn event it once was? No. But it will still harbor the same local tensions and hostilities it did in years past, because Pitt and Penn State are still two schools separated by an endlessly reconstructed, 130 mile stretch of highway.
So to all those fighting conference expansion on the grounds that it's going to ruin traditions, I say, just stop please. I've lived the transition from independence to a conference. I've grown up loving the things a conference offers, all the while taking pride in Penn State's independent past. The transition can be made enjoyably so long as you embrace it.
The era of superconferences promises to usher in a period of unfathomable wealth for college athletics. It promises to bring schools and fan bases from across the country closer than they've ever been before. It could bring about the college football playoff system fans have begged for since the dawn of time.
I can't sit here and say the process is pure or noble. As Wetzel points out, it's certainly fraught with greed and power grabs that are regrettable to say the least. That said, 15 years from now, will the college sports fans of tomorrow really care about that? Or will they care about the good things they will inevitably enjoy in their time?
For my part, I believe students and fans who truly love their school will come to love the changes and new traditions the future holds, just like the fans and students at places like Pitt and Penn State have come to love the things their schools now represent.
Tradition is great, but it should never get in the way of progress. For as long as I live, I'll celebrate the great moments in Penn State's history, from it's formative years, to it's dominance as an Eastern football independent, to it's roller coaster through the Big Ten years.
But right now, I'm excited to face the challenges this burgeoning era holds, and you should be, too.
I'm looking at you, Notre Dame.
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Advanced in age??
Watch yourself, sonny.
Anyway, back in those days the REAL big match ups were Notre Dame, Nebraska, Alabama and — yes — Pitt. Now we just might come full circle and be adding some of those teams to the Big Ten. The more things change . . .
That struck me, too.
Just say we’re old and get on with it.
Otherwise, good post!
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
Vince Lombardi
This is the truth
People are lamenting the loss of college football traditions as if the Constitution, Bible, and the writings of Lincoln, MLK Jr, and Einstein are being burned. Whatever.
There were traditions before the current traditions or even the last set of traditions. The Ivy League was not only a powerhouse conference, but THE powerhouse conference. HBCUs were loaded with talent and depth (little known fact: at the time of the first Super Bowl, Notre Dame had the most former players on NFL rosters. #2? Grambling). Schools like Carnegie Tech, Oberlin, and Chicago were legit. Colleges would regularly play teams representing military bases.
These times are all in the past, and college football is stronger than it ever has been. New traditions and customs have formed. Programs have risen and faded. It’s still a great product.
No alarms and no surprises please.
Minnesota won lots of national championships
(legitimate, unlike most of Pitt’s and Bama’s)
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Uh oh. The RBR guys will be here in no time.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Do they have a klaxon rigged to sound
every time a disparaging elephant post pops up on BSD?
Red lights flashing, bells wailing they rush to slide down into their crimson colored super-blog hideout where they pull on thier kevlar/lycra/acrylic fire resistant unitards preparing to fight for tide justice. Utility belts choked full of southern slang and Bama pride they mercilessly bludgeon us over the head with years of blogging supremecy.
I suggest we not mention them again.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
They're like ninjas.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
the old programs and the old coaches——Pop Warner, The Bear, Knute, Buff Donelli, Elmer Leyden, Bill Rafferty, Eddie Robinson, Joe Paterno——whatever happened to those guys and their traditions, huh?
OOOOH SNAP!
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Nice article, FTG.
I guess I’m a hybrid in that I’m old enough to remember the tail end of the old Eastern rivals, while spending my college career through the dark years, and then reveling in the recent success. I would like to see Pitt on the schedule again, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, the only people that want this are old(er) people and people from Western PA.
Going to Pitt Law, I regularly wore Blue and White and not once did anyone say anything to me on the streets. I got into some debates with classmates, but the folks in Oakland didn’t seem to give a crap about Penn State when I was sporting my jersey every Friday.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
As long as you didn't get shot
at the Dirty O, who would really give a crap about PSU in Oakland.
That's crazy Junny.
I had people in Oakland, Southside, even downtown, talk shit to me when I’d wear my #22. One guy tried to fight me the day we lost to UM in 2007 – just so happened to be the same day sPitt lost to UConn, so I shut him up quick.
The only, and I do mean ONLY time, these people were justified in talking trash to me was OSU 2008, when they lost to Rutgers. I went to Hem’s and found Rutgers fans. We proceeded to do shots and run around Oakland laughing at Pitt fans and doing Rutgers/We Are cheers to the chagrin of many and the delight of me. Aside from that night (which involved at least 5 near-fist fights), I’ve been harassed in one way or another (beyond the usual “state penn” and “flip cows” dumbass shit) at least 100 times – most often, due to the circumstances, after a Penn State win and a Pitt loss.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
And the 1Ls your 3L year are giant doucheas about pitt.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
They used to let me watch Penn State at Hemmingway's
Even threw out a bunch of assholes who were harassing me during the 2005 Wisconsin game.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
The original owner
of Hemmingway’s was a personal friend of mine….and the calamari was always great…and he didn’t put up with crap at his place.
I was watching Penn State, literally underneath the dorms...
I was an uber regular, it was the only thing that saved me.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I never went looking for confrontation, so my opinion is limited to anyone that wanted to come see me for confrontation, which was no one.
Then again, my Oakland experience on Friday was generally limited to a 3 block radius around the magnificently architectured Barco Law Building.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you really missed out...
North Oakland forever.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
Well when I was in Oakland, I was most concerned with getting out of Oakland, so I never really did any sightseeing.
Barco for law, and that indoor facility at the top of the hill for indoor soccer were primarily the only buildings I was in whilst a Pitt student.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the half-assed Holuba.
Although it’s got a cool view now that the new sports stuff is wrapping up.
I didn’t seek out fights, but people would give me shit on a regular. Again, only night I looked for them was OSU 2008.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
some easterners too
I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. Captain O'Hagan
by psu in the w-b on Jun 8, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article
Not often do you read articles extolling the virtues of change. For a while I had no idea where you were going with this aka “is this really an article on his experience at a pitt football game”?
Excellent work bringing it together, making an excellent point, and taking a shot at ND in the process.
Bravo
Not willing to sell out completely though, I grabbed a Nittany Nation shirt from the drawer and pulled an Indiana hoodie over top of it before busting out the door.
I hope Fugi is less of a pansy than For the Nookie.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought he
was saving himslef for a Disney girl.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Not A Disney girl
THE Disney girl.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
just give it a couple a years she will go bad like hannah There is hope yet for you fugi
I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. Captain O'Hagan
by psu in the w-b on Jun 8, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet she doesn't
That’s why I like her and NOT Miley.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 9, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
As Brad says in Bachelor Party (arriving on a suitcase in the hotel lobby):
This is gonna be GREAT!
Bacon is almost as great as being a Penn Stater
I am surprised about the PSU sucks chant after beating Conneticut.
I remember playing Pitt and ND clearly throughout my childhood, reading your article brings back a taste of bile/hatred towards Pitt that no other school can bring. Notre Dame was a fun rival, but not like Pitt. I really really hope when all is said and done that Pitt is part of the B10. All the other expansion stuff is fun and interesting but I want Pitt.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
for what it's worth
I was at that game and I don’t remember any “Penn State sucks” cheers.
Most of the folks were just exasperated from the mediocre play for 3 quarters and then a furious rally.
Ok so I'm making it all up
Is that what you’re saying?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard him question your integrity.
Anybody else? (I’m kidding) Or am I?
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I heard it.
I heard FTG leans in beer pong and screen searches in Halo.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
What now?
I play neither of those games.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying...
That’s what I heard.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
(that's an inside joke a few of my friends who used to frequent BSD would have bit on)
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
How common are the cheers at games, though?
and if at all common, would you be expected to remember them?
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
I went to PSU in 2002-06 and I started watching in ‘94, so I was never really connected to the school before the Big Ten era. While I love reading Lou Prato’s books and listening to the older alums wax poetically about the halycon days of the rivalries against Pitt, Syracuse, and Notre Dame, I’m no less pleased with our current rivalries against Ohio State and Michigan (one-sided as they may be), and the budding rivalry with Iowa, not to mention the occasional tussles with the likes of Alabama, Nebraska, and our old friends in South Bend. If the Big Ten expands, who knows, maybe we’ll develop a blood feud with Missouri, or Rutgers, or even Pitt once again. Maybe not. Either way, Penn State football will always be Penn State football, and Big Ten expansion won’t change that.
Penn State doesn't have a rivalry with Notre Dame
any more than it has one with Alabama, i.e. they played an extended series of games in the 1980’s. That, and some bowl games, are pretty much it.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
True
But that was one heck of a decade against Notre Dame. We were winning national championships in the early part of the 80s. They were winning national championships in the later half. Plus that is a huge rivalry in NE PA where half of the people are Notre Dame fans.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
You can say most of the same things about Alabama
Except the NE Pa thing. Of course, PSU/ND game was bigger than the Pitt game to the people up there.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I'd agree on Bama if only because of the rankings when the two met.
Virtually every instances was two top-10 teams, if I recall my reading correctly, and a couple were 1-2. I doubt we can pull into the top 10 by week 2, but it should still be two top 20 teams. Always fun.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
It is a huge rivalry here borderline hatred.
I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. Captain O'Hagan
by psu in the w-b on Jun 8, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes to this
FTG and I drink from the same cup of kool-aid. I for one can not wait for expansion. When exapnsion happens I want Pitt to be a part of it, even if it is not the best business decision for the Big Ten. Pitt fans naively think their improved periennal placement in the Big East standings has brought them to a competitive level comparable to PSU and on a bigger scale the Big Ten as a whole. Being a PSU alum living in Pittsburg I hear a vocal component of Pitt supporters complain that PSU won’t play them as if the decision-makers are “scared” and think that PSU might lose. Has Pitt football improved in recent years? Yes. Could they, on any given week of the season beat PSU? I would say they could 3 out of 10 times (especially with my gut feeling about this year). However, we all know that the possibility of losing to Pitt is the last reason PSU is reluctant to renew the rivalry. Delany, I implore you, please invite Pitt (along with Nebraska, Missouri, Cuse and Rutgers) to the Big Ten. Lets give the people what they want all the while whisper to our Pitt brethern "careful what you wish for. . . . "
Forget about finding your perfect match, I want a website where you can find your perfect arch-nemesis
I don't think this is what the people want
I could care less about playing Pitt as well as anyone under 30 from the eastern part of the state. I would much rather get ND and stop at 12 that invite that motley crew of teams you suggested.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
I don't know if I like 14
I think if we stop at 14, other conferences will go to 16 then we will be left scrambling to find two new teams. I think if we just add ND, the PAC 10 would then add Colorado and Utah, Big 12 adds one more and that would be it for expansion
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
nd doesn't come unless
the big12 and pac 10 merge.
I think nd is staying put unless there’s a major change afoot.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
When I say people, I mean the Pitt fans that want to play PSU every year. I, as a former resident of Philadelphia and coming in at an admittedly geriatric 31 years old, would still have loved to see Pitt/PSU when I lived there. As for stopping at 12 I think if the direction collegiate football was headed was different then its current trajectory, I would agree with you. However, with the Big 10 discussions possibly forcing the Pac-10 to move quickly and possibly add as many as 6 teams, the Big Ten will have to make similar expansion moves and do so soon. Sure, throw ND in instead of anyone of the other teams, I would be happy to play them every year also. That is not even a question, include Cuse, a couple Texas schools, whatever combination of 5 teams would be fine with me really as I don’t see any of the possible additions being a bad thing. We could discuss for days what five teams it should be and if Pitt is not one of them, so be it. But it would be sweet if they were. . . . .
Forget about finding your perfect match, I want a website where you can find your perfect arch-nemesis
by Lunatic Fringe on Jun 8, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Big 12 and PAC 10 merge
if Nebraska doesn’t bolt for the big ten
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face
Nice article Foog.
Really, really enjoyed it, especially the fresh perspective on change.
Also, your argument that the geographic proximity will always fuel some hatred between Pitt-Penn State is the only compelling one I have ever heard. Personally, I care as little about the Pitt chance you mention above as I would if ASU students were chanting same during the undie run. But for those who live in that stretch of road you mention, I can see it.
All that said, I don’t think this superconference is as imminent as everyone is currently speculating. Maybe it is “the future”, but I don’t believe it is any closer than 5 years away, at the very closest. If I had to wager I would call this a brilliant marketing ploy by the pac 10. When have we discussed the schools in that league (profiles, athletic departments, academics) this in depth, let alone during the football off season? They are getting great press, and also probably getting feedback on which schools are interested, and the public and media perceives as a fit, to get to 12 teams for a championship game.
" I've lived the transition from independence to a conference."
Penn State joined the big11 20 years ago. Are you 20?
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Indeed I am
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
MATH!
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Pitt Atmosphere
I went to the Pitt-ND game a few years ago. I remember a lot of empty seats. The Pitt fans were rather depressing and seemed to only find joy by pouring liquid from the upper deck onto their fellow panthers below. The only games they care about are the WV game and whatever bowl they are in.
Pitt has done well in the Big East lately, but they seem to be missing something: maybe its because the city’s NFL team is so successful, maybe its because they play in that NFL team’s stadium, which is far away from campus, maybe its because they seem to care more about basketball, or maybe its because they are known as “the other PA school” when it comes to college football. When I told people I was a Penn Stater, few seemed to care, they’d usually respond, “Oh, my so-and-so is going there.” Only one or two drunks gave me the hate. (In fact, ND fans I bumped into gave me a lot more grief.) I’m sure if we played, everyone would make a big deal, I’m sure the media would be spurring it on, but otherwise, most don’t care.
Disagree, jesse.'s a Pitt fan and he cares.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Never said nobody cares, but my experience was that most don't.
Maybe they were having an off day.
I don't think pitt has "off" days.
All days are off, and occasionally they have an “on” day.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
New logo for Penn State Basketball?
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
sure.
And, like based on how the guys are shooting in the shootaround, we could give players different jerseys, kinda like liberos in volleyball?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I was sarcastic.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, but don't make me do it.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I found this to be the case on a regular basis when I went to law school.
Only diehards and older people would go to the game, and even that would be a weak attempt to fill the stadium (cue yellow out photo). I would be at school for whatever reason on a Saturday, and people in Oakland would be out shopping and enjoying a nice Saturday. For shame…
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I know this sounds strange
But there are actually people that find the atmosphere at Penn State distasteful. Not that I agree, but seriously, it’s a college football game. Can you honestly tell me that a reasonable person can’t think that a Penn State game is maybe just a little bit over the top?
I’m not going to lie, I actually liked having the football game being the end all be all of my weekends, and by weekends, I mean Thursday afternoon through Sunday night. I honestly wish Pitt people would stop apologizing and/or making excuses for not being Penn State, and just say, “yeah, we’re just not that in to it”. It’s not a crime to not be into college football.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I can definitely see how a person would find the PSU gameday experience "over the top."
But that’s how I like it, and hundreds of thousands of people agree with me (and you). The people that find it over the top are the opposing fans that come with preconceived notions of “other team bad, my team good, no fun for anyone” and the Old Man Eulers of the world.
For thirteen Saturdays a year (well twelve plus whatever day the bowl is), my life revolves around one thing. And that’s the way I like it. Now get off my lawn.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect
Some people see it as badly misplaced priorites as it comes life generally, and education specifically. What is a college supposed to be for? Education, but like it or not, many people (nerds) think that Penn State is where jocks go to act like they own the place for another four years after high school. What we call “proud athletic tradition” many people simply see as an extension of high school, and/or the glorification of football over academics.
I’ve said this a million times, not every school has to be the same. Maybe I’m just getting old.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
Unless they went to an Ivy League school
Or one of the handful of other schools better than PSU (or the Big Ten) that doesn’t have a football team that the school cares about, then I’d just ignore that comment.
It isn’t like Penn State is sitting outside the top 150 schools or something, and only exists as a pro-football factory.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It’s not like we have a bunch of rednecks who didn’t attend college (like lots of SEC fans). By my count (and subject to slight misinterpretation), we have at least one frequent poster who is a prof. at medical school or health admin, several barred or soon-to-be-barred attorneys, multiple engineers, a guy that owns a friggin grotto, a robot, and a few teachers (that one’s sticking out from somewhere, but I can’t associate the tags with them, so that might be wrong). And those are just the ones that have come out recently; I’m sure there are countless others of which I’m unaware that have achieved whatever success they sought, and they aren’t all jock PE teachers.
I think people who call us out for sports are the ones who either didn’t understand them or couldn’t compete in them, so that’s their coverup. I graduated with a kid who had about a 3.9 in engineering, drank 5-6 nights a week, came to class reeking of booze, and was accepted to Columbia and MIT for his masters. Don’t know which he took, but I can tell you he went to every game, home or away, our last 2 years in school. That’s not “unacademic” to me. That’s having the most fun and the most success without sacrificing either.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
and it isn't like these other people don't have their equivalent to football
some of them probably stay up all night playing computer games, some are probably wine snobs and pay way too much money for some wine that tastes the same as any other $20 bottle. Maybe some of them are shopaholics. We just happen to really enjoy our football.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying to picture a Pitt fan shopaholic in my mind.
I imagine it looks something like Tate Forcier with a nose ring.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my god.
Nose ring, ear gauges or whatever those things are that they wear in Africa, super-tight chick jeans if its a guy… Jesus, I hate Pitt’s undergrads. I can handle one of those things on any one person. Not all.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
The person that raised this issue with me
didn’t hate Penn State, understood that it was a good school, and didn’t begrudge us a football team. It was the extent of it that turned her off. You don’t have to agree, or even like it, it’s just a prospective that’s out there.
I was talking with girlfriend about it recently, she told me; "Your Penn State “thing” makes more sense if you think of it like a religion, rather than a football team". She’s not wrong, but, yikes…
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
I mean if Penn State is a religon...
I’m like in the Taliban of it. It’s a little disconcerting sometime.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
What does that make Old Man Euler?
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of like a Deacon
Or maybe one of those old guys that holds hands with George W. Bush in the Michael Moore documentarys
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
good job
You just added a reader to BSD, the FBI.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
by psu on Jun 8, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And now they're looking at you because they know you're on to them.
Yikes, does that mean they know I’m on to them, too?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
that should be interesting next to curling milfs on the look you found us
I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. Captain O'Hagan
by psu in the w-b on Jun 8, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no God but JoePa
and Big Red is his Prophet!!!!
by Tailgate Shogun on Jun 8, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This has been discussed before,
but a good football team does improve the prestige and quality of the education that a school provides.
by VVeRPennState on Jun 8, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
heck, that's the main reason a lot of teams were started in the first place.
There have even been studies showing how applications, and even the quality of incoming faculty, increases after really good seasons.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
point: Hamlet was read to our team before the dark ages came to an end. Spawned the rebirth
I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy. Captain O'Hagan
by psu in the w-b on Jun 8, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think people who think that way deserve a second thought
As a self-admitted nerd, I think it’s not necessarily nerds who would adopt this attitude but rather the kids who got picked on by jocks and now have some kind of over-generalized hatred for everything that reminds them of that awkward time.
In my day, the jocks and nerds got along just fine because everyone drank and smoked pot. Maybe they didn’t all go to the same parties, but certainly recreational substance abuse was a common thread that allowed everyone to relate. I cringe when I hear stories about today’s highschools, which seem more like prisons.
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
by millzners on Jun 8, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still don't see what was incorrect.
I thought I was agreeing with you about zeal for my university. People’s perceptions are what they are, and I could really care less about that.
@EpicTripod
Black Shoe Diaries
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jun 8, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This...
other team bad, my team good, no fun for anyone
In the discussion I had about this issue, the person that was resenting the viewpoint I noted above didn’t care about whether Pitt or Penn State was better. The argument is often framed that way, but that’s not what this was.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
right, but she probably has her "thing" as well
Maybe she’s one of those girls that flocks to Sex and the City, or maybe it is even a real religion. Everyone’s got their “thing”, some are just more fun than others ;-)
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice Job, Fugi
The one night I actually cheered for Pitt, the 2007 Backyard Brawl (against West Virginia, for those of you not up on your cheesy nicknames for rivalry games), I still found students who were trying to diss Penn State. Yet, after a win, I never think “Ha! Pitt sucks!” maybe after a loss, I can take solace in the fact that Penn State’s better than Pitt, but that’s completely different.
Also, has anyone ever been to Pitt football’s wikipedia page? The names they gave for their eras are so depressing
1.1 The Early Years (1889–1902)
1.2 Rise to Power (1903–1914)
1.3 Pop Warner Years (1915–1923)
1.4 Jock Sutherland Years (1924–1938)
1.5 A Failed Policy (1939–1954)
1.6 John Michelosen Years (1955–1965)
1.7 A Turn for the Worse (1966–1972)
1.8 A Major Change (1973–1981)
1.9 A Drop in Stature (1982–1991)
1.10 Another Downturn (1991–1996)
1.11 Wide Receiver U. (1997–2004)
1.12 The Wannstedt Era (2005–present)
LOL
“A drop in stature” followed by “Another downturn.” HAHAHAHA
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I'm tempeted to go in and change it to...
’The Wanstache years"
How long might it take for someone to notice?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
They would probably thank you for correcting the typo.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
LOLz
I didn’t notice that till you pointed it out.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a little more complicated than that.
Label it “The Wanstache Years and the Creation of the Hole in the Wall That Wanny Built”
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
please do this
"There are only three certainties in college football: all players will eventually leave, the ACC will be bad, and Joe Paterno ", Clay Travis, CNNsi Fanhouse
outstanding
What was the failed policy, and why the heck did it take so long to fix it?
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
I'm going to guess it was Nazism.
I mean, the years are right…
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They stopped giving scholarships
We did the same thing.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
Didn't we do that before they did though?
You’d think they’d have learned from it.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jun 8, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from sPitt scheduling Poland
during those years, you are correct….did you ever hear sPitt’s alma mater? It really sounds like Deutscheland Uber Alles!
Wide Receiver U
really?
They had what, 1, maybe 2 notable WRs in that timespan. Impressive!
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
They can stomach that more
than Whatsa Matta You.
I don't recall
Larry Fitzgerald spending 8 years at Pitt.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Rod Rutherford was black and thus he counts.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Rambler
You are full of Chris Pronger hate this week. I like it.
Eat more pie.
by Illegal Formation on Jun 8, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Conn Smythe winner!!! OMG
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They won two Biletnikoffs
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
not enough to be undisputed LBU.
Ask OSU. Or minnesota last year.
As much as I hate it, Michigan is WR U. Sowwy, pitties.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
This part is fun:
Harris compiled an overall record of 52–44. However, alumni and fans were growing restless with perceived recruiting deficiencies and an inability to return the program to the highest level. When disparaging remarks about the program were made by his agent, Harris’ contract negotiations with the school stalled.
Thus the “wall” rhetoric, I guess. Not sure when the program was ever at “the highest level,” though, the mid-30s maybe.
I know about your diabolical plan.
What they should have written
Was that Walt Harris was a huge douche, that looked and sounded….. well lets just say he wasn’t from Pittsburgh, that everybody hated because he wouldn’t run the offense exactly like the Steelers do.
What idiot fires the coach after the schools best season in thirty years? Seriously.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
by jesse. on Jun 9, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great post . . .
I remember attending a Pitt – G’Town basketball game in Oakland during the mid-90s and the loudest the student section got was when they chanted “Penn State Sucks”. I almost felt bad for them.
That's the issue.
I’m sure a sizable minority, or even a majority of PSU fans would love to respond with a, “we don’t care” chant and then be done with them forever. Stop trying to associate everything to a school you don’t even play in athletics. Try to find a rival in the Big East, there are plenty of options.
Even better, try to celebrate your school by chanting something positive like the “We are…” chant. Lowering yourself to chant “(insert team) sucks” in the end says nothing of you and your fanbase. That’s fine that you think (insert team) sucks, but who the hell are you?
Meanwhile we will vote for Ohio State Sucks over every other possible poll option.
It might appear we are to Ohio State what Pitt is to us.
by VVeRPennState on Jun 8, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Those of us that do that should keep this in mind.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
One thing to chant it, another thing to exercise your democratic right to vote.
When I vote “Ohio State sucks” I vote indirectly for America.
Whatever, jtot.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta say
Not a fan of the “Ohio State Sucks” poll options around here. You can bet the trolls will come in reminding us of that the next time they beat us.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Jun 8, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I blame Junny.
"I'm day-to-day with hurt feelings." - Chris Pronger
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
disagree on this point
By the time Penn State takes on Alabama on September 11, the Lions will have faced three of their historic rivals in the last four years: Alabama, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. Those traditional rivalries aren’t dead, they’ve merely changed a little.
To me, there’s an ebb and flow to true rivalries that Penn State has missed out on – much to our detriment. Yeah, we played the three mentioned above and it brought back memories for the oldies. But when you watch a game like that full of nostalgia, the rivalry is dead. Ask UCLA/USC or Florida/Florida State, etc whether they feel nostalgic during those particular games. For the most part, they do not. They’re focused on beating the crap out of the opponent. There’s passion and energy, and yes hate, that recycles itself year to year. And it snowballs.
Penn State has done itself a great disservice by keeping an arm’s length with Pitt. It really makes me depressed at what could have been. I’ve been to only ONE Penn State/Pitt game and I feel like there’s something there that could be special not just for the state of Pennsylvania, but for the entire nation. Yes, Pitt has become a stinker, but I believe that the blame should also rest on us. We should not be proud or indignant or elitist with the way the rivalry petered out, leaving Pitt in shambles. Rivalries forces both teams to be better. There’s an urgency to be successful.
Penn State is the most important football school in one of four (what I call) big football states. The other three states are California, Texas, and Florida. Only Penn State lacks an in state rival. Because of this, we have a massive void within our great history.
And if you can’t tell, I really, really, really, want Pitt to join the Big Ten.
The entire state of Ohio would like to have a word with you.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
how much hate and vitriol did you feel towards Pitt at that one game
(or even notice anyone else displaying)?
I was at 1 Pitt game, and they played 3 times while I was a student, and I don’t recall caring about a single one of those games. Maybe it was because the one I was actually at was during our 1999 failed attempt at a MNC run, and it is hard to feel the rivalry hate during an away game, I dunno…but I distinctly remember caring about the OSU and Michigan games during my time there.
by The JuggerNitt on Jun 8, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly
I was a student at that time and remember discussing with other fans why I didn’t think we should play them anymore. They were a long faded power by that time and most of our fans at the time were just apathetic about playing them. They seemed to care about the game way more than we did and usually played us tougher than they should have. I looked at them as this bad team that could do nothing but hurt our ranking and just didn’t see the value of the game.
That sounds
like the Iowa-Iowa State game feels right now.
I know about your diabolical plan.
by KevinHD on Jun 8, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
1992?
surrounded by Penn State fans so it was hard to tell because the game wasn’t that close. people made a big deal of it leading up to the game though.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jun 9, 2010 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions
+1.
True rivalries have an ongoing narrative.
Not sure about "new" rivalries.
To me a true rivalry takes at least a generation to develop. I can’t ever imagine caring about a game vs. Missouri.
Rivalries consist of people, geography, and history, and the relationship of those three factors to Penn State are different with Pitt than with any other NCAA institution, which is why I fervently hope Pitt ends up in the Big Ten. A PSU-Pitt game could be on Labor Day night instead of Miami-FSU. My nightmare is Big 10 expansion with five Big XII teams, I would have less than zero interest in that.
And I’m in favor of stopping the ‘Ohio State sucks’ polls. It’s lame because we’ve never even beaten them in consecutive years. It’s as bad a Philly fans chanting ‘Crosby sucks’ at hockey games.
I never could have imagined carring about a game against Iowa fifteen years ago.
I recall being pretty jacked for the Minnesota game in 2005 too.
Pitt currently has both a better football and basketball team than Michigan.
Agreed on rivalries taking time,
but we are well on our way to having had the time to develop rivalries. It took how long to create the rivalries of old? The ones frequently pointed to took at least 2 generations. Even though conventionally a generation is loosel deemed to be 0-25 years, 10 is more applicable for college football/colleges in general as turnover is rapid (4 years).
I’d say we’re through the first generation of big ten rivalries and we can already see a couple building. Be patient. It’s funny how so often people complain about not having ‘long time’ rivals on the schedule, yet immediately complain about the teams we are developing that ‘long time’ history. What good would it do to throw away the last 16-17 years of B10 rivalry building?
That said I think the annual game with Pitt on Labor Day weekend would be a good idea because its something different and could be come a great family tradition of many.
Who cares about Pitt
When every 3rd Saturday in November the entire sports world stops and the battle for the Land Grant trophy begins!
by Slawsc on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Excellent post.
Thoughtful, persuasive and diplomatic: well done.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
I just googled "Penn State sucks" and here's what I found:
1. A Collegian article saying Pitt would remove “Penn State sucks” from it’s cheering repertoire
2. A Facebook group associated with Pittsburgh
3. A book on Amazon called "I hate Penn State: 303 reasons why you should too
4. A Piitsburgh sports blog post explaining why Penn State sucks (the comments rival Pennlive)
5. Another Pitt blog with this gem from 11/09: The point is that it is time for PSU to take a second chair in PA college football to Pitt. Their program has hit a wall and I think everybody is realizing that. PSU is a annual #15-25 team in my book. Nothing more. They have proven that they can beat up on cupcakes but when they play the likes of USC or quality OSU teams in the top 10 (except for their win last year), they are nothing.
Apparently there are a lot of people who have decided to not grow up. To constantly criticize a team that you don’t even play is absolutely pathetic and sad.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"



































