Penn State Special Teams Must Improve In 2010
by BSD on Jul 14, 2010 10:41 AM EDT
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I've been very vocal about downplaying the impending Penn State quarterback disaster that many people are predicting and instead pointing at the offensive line as the main area of concern. But another area where Penn State absolutely has to improve this year is on special teams.
Collin Wagner took a good portion of the heat for the special teams follies last year. His stat line wasn't impressive, but it wasn't horrible.
|
|
Made-Att |
Pct. |
0-19 |
20-29 |
30-39 |
40-49 |
50-99 |
Long |
|
Collin Wagner |
15-22 |
68.2 |
1-1 |
10-11 |
3-5 |
1-4 |
0-1 |
47 |
It was pretty obvious by midseason that Joe Paterno didn't have much confidence in Wagner. Unless it was the end of a half, Penn State rarely attempted a field goal over 40 yards. The Daily Collegian Footblog points out today that Wagner has been working hard on extending his range this year.
After admitting his nerves never settled down until after the fourth game of last season, Wagner's in a different situation this year. With a full year of experience and new-found confidence under his belt, the senior entered the summer with just one goal.
"I put a lot of emphasis on leg strength this winter and summer," Wagner said. "As far as all that goes, I'm hoping to extend my range a little bit, a few yards maybe."
While he's hoping to be able to nail field goals from 51 to 53 yards, he said so far his improved leg strength has shown. Though he's worked on his own, since none of the football coaches can be around if a football is out, Wagner said he's been hitting from 55 and 56 yards.
Take a look at these numbers from last year and die a little bit inside.
If true, this is a very good sign. But I'm willing to live with a kicker that can't make anything over 45 yards as long as he's automatic inside of 45 yards. At least you know what you're getting there and you can game plan around it.
However, there was no game planning around the rest of Penn State's special teams. Take a look at these numbers from 2009 and die a little bit inside like I did.
| Penn State Special Teams | Yards | National Rank |
| Net Punting | 31.71 | 114 |
| Punt Returns | 4.97 | 106 |
| Punt Return Defense | 15.40 | 117 |
| Kickoff Returns | 19.18 | 107 |
| Kickoff Return Defense | 21.78 | 64 |
People, that is some suck of historical proportions right there. When Penn State traded punts with their opponents, the Nittany Lions typically lost between 10 to 20 yards of field position in the deal. The special teams consistently handicapped the offense and defense on numerous occassions. This has got to change in 2010.
So this is the part where I polish the turd and tell you everything is going to be alright.
(churp....churp....churp...)
Folks, I wish I could point to something positive to say here, but it's hard to see much that has changed from last year. About the only thing different is the loss of the one bright spot Penn State had in Jeremy Boone who was 19th in the country averaging 43.3 yards per punt. Ryan Breen was expected to step in and take over the punting duties, but Breen inexplicably left the program back in March. Things are so bad that Graham Zug had to fill in as the punter for the White team in the spring game.
Hopefully the punting situation will work itself out by September. Admittedly, Anthony Fera sat out the spring game after getting busted for underage drinking. By all accounts he has a pretty strong leg. He's also in competition with Russ Nye and Alex Butterworth.
As far as the kickoff and punt returns go, Penn State has plenty of guys who can return them. Devon Smith, Curtis Drake, Chaz Powell, Justin Brown, and Stephfon Green have plenty of speed. The question is who is going to block and cover in the kicking game. This was the biggest problem I saw on special teams last year. Specifically with the personnel.
If you recall in 2008, Penn State special teams were fantastic. Derrick Williams got most of the attention in the return game, but there were also guys like Nate Stupar blowing up wedges and slicing through blockers. Brandon Beachum was also a key blocker. And in kick coverage A.J. Wallace and Knowledge Timmons also played critical roles.
Last year I looked at our special teams and I saw guys like James Van Fleet, Mike Zordich, Shaine Thompson, and Shelton McCullough. No offense to any of these guys, but Penn State should be able to put together a better set of athletes on special teams. Part of the reason they chose the people they chose were because of the lack of depth at cornerback and all of the injuries Penn State suffered at linebacker. The second team corners make good gunners in coverage, and linebackers are good at shedding blocks to get to the ball carrier. When your starters go down on defense those guys get bumped up, and the third string guys get trotted out on the punt team.
So maybe there is hope for this year. Penn State has a lot of depth at cornerback, so look for guys like Derrick Thomas and Chaz Powell to get a shot at gunner. The linebackers are stacked, so I'm looking for guys like Chris Colasanti, Mike Yancich, and either Nate Stupar or Gerald Hodges to get a shot. If Penn State does this, I think we'll see a major improvement in special teams for 2010.
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- Derrick Thomas? Can we get this guy too?
- One can almost blame special teams for the Ohio State loss.
- Special teams get 50-60% blame for the Iowa loss.
- If this was PennLive, we’d already have 25 posts calling Joe an idiot for not firing Jay and getting a special teams coach to replace him.
"My, my, my, my, my, my, my Mitchell. What would your mama say?"
by ReadingRambler on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions
In a serious note....
there is NO special team(s) coach….you want to go back a few years and have Joe showing the proper way to onsides kick. Well that ended in a fiasco too. WE can always look to a game or 2 where the special teams kill us. That can be a difference in 8 wins or 10 wins. And the excuse for just “throwing” in a fast guy to run back kicks is just palin stoooopid. Some of these kids never ran back kicks and is not fair to them. Hell last year “Black Zug” was returning. I wish they would pay more attention to this weak spot.
by DerryPharmer on Jul 14, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
FERA
should be kicking off and attempting the longer field goals. His leg is stronger based on his high school videos. Why waste such talent?
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate" Cool Hand Luke
by OlderBudweiser on Jul 14, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
Two things he can do.
Prove he’s clearly better at practice, stop getting caught with mango rum. Pretty simple.
Got more suits than Jacoby and Meyers.
by Run Up The Score on Jul 14, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Got a problem with Mango Rum a-hole?
www.federalagentforum.com
by SweepTheLeg on Jul 14, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
No.......
but it seems Joe Paterno and the SCPD do when the person in possession of it is under 21.
I HAVE to believe that the latter is the true problem.
His HS videos were insane, and kicking is, as far as I can tell, the only thing that is EXACTLY THE SAME in college as high school.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
keek all day and I drink my rum
daylight come and me wanna go home
by Frank O'Brien on Jul 14, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If special teams don't improve this year
gotta blame Joe. I hate to say/admit this, but we’ve got to be the only D1 program without a full-time special teams coach.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I remember trying to research this once, and I was surprised at how many teams didn’t have a special teams coach (at least, I couldn’t find a name). But, I happen to agree that Penn State needs one.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Jul 14, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
For example, Lester Erb is wide receivers and special teams coach at Iowa. I’m not sure I see how that’s better than having different coaches work together at ST.
"My, my, my, my, my, my, my Mitchell. What would your mama say?"
by ReadingRambler on Jul 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I've heard the arguement many
times that few schools have a dedicated special teams coach due to the limitation on the number of staff members. Most position coaches just pull double duty.
A google search yielded little. Short of searching the coaching staff of every D1 team I can’t find evidence either way.
Florida and Virginia Tech have had great ST. Urban Meyer is in charge of the Gators ST while VT doesn’t list a ST coach on their staff.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
That's because it's Beamer's job at VT.
Got more suits than Jacoby and Meyers.
by Run Up The Score on Jul 14, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I could argue that
Beamer is the head coach. And as head coach he makes himself accountable for special teams. No where that I could find on their athletic dept site does it specifically state that Frank Beamer is the special teams coach. We know he is becasue we hear about Beamer ball blah blah blah.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
No, Beamer is definitely their special teams coordinator.
He’s referred to himself by that title before.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
you'll hate it soon enough.
I’m from Northern VA, and I can’t stand all the VT crap. They always suck, face it.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
At least make someone accountable!
Look at our coaching roster…NO-BODY has ST responsibility. Who do you turn to when ST doesn’t perform? While its a shared responsibility, most high performing teams have someone who is accountable: Alabama does, Florida does, Texas does, Iowa does, tOSU doesn’t (but they suck).
There are coaches who are responsible
Pretty sure Buggs, LJ, and someone else are in charge of different aspects of ST.
Fine. My point is...
list them as such with a “/Special Teams” after their main role. Its a small thing, but we do have performance issues on ST.
Well I'm sure they people who do take on those roles
know who they are along with the rest of the coaches, so if one area is lacking, everyone on the staff knows who is responsible. All that putting an extra title on a website or game program does is allow us to bitch about it later. I don’t really see how that would make a difference in the long run. Are we really going to fire LJ because the kick coverage is sub par and that’s what his sub-title is? My guess is no.
We're definitely not the only one
I’ve looked this up before. But, it doesn’t seem to be a priority.
Nah, just look around the conference.
Some have ‘em, some don’t.
Got more suits than Jacoby and Meyers.
by Run Up The Score on Jul 14, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
College teams with full time ST Coaches
are very few and far between. And if you look closely some of those end up being grad assistants. Limits on coaching staff numbers is the main reason why.
In recent times the PSU
coaches have traded knowledge with other college or pro teams – Texas comes to mind.
Since PSU has never played VT and doesn’t seem to be in too much of a hurry to get them on the schedule, why not give Beamer a call and see if we can bottle of some of their special teams mastery.
Special Teams is 1/3 of the game and PSU should be doing better than piecing things together with duct tape and 30wt ball bearings.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Beamer relies on special teams to score points almost every game
I can’t imagine that Joe would want to go down there and put that mentality into his coaching staff.
Personally, I think a Lou Holtz pep talk would do the trick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPrC6mgJio
Don’t listen to the kicking stats… they’ll make you cry.
I am most excited to see some better returns
With the talent we have it could be exciting, or it could be astorino fair catching. I hope the coaches use some of our speed guys on returns and coverage, we can only get better from that standpoint.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils
Zug disagrees.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I believe
With the wealth of talent in the incoming 2010 class, we will be more athletic on special teams b/c we won’t lack in depth at key positions. 2010’s class should replenish that depth.
Basically, I think we could have stellar special teams if the coaches feel confident in putting the talented backups in there like we had in 2008, instead of the walk ons and 3rd string like we saw last season.
Also, and I’ve said this for years now, Stephon Green needs to be our kickoff return man, if not both punt and kickoff returns. He’s ready to take that roll and he’s very dangerous.
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
Hands...
He’s gotta prove that he’s put the fumblies behind him.
But I agree with you, speed is a huge asset, but so is patience and elusiveness. I really don’t know who provides the best combination of those characteristics since DWill left. His made those PR/KR TD’s look extremely by making the first man miss (elusiveness) and letting his blockers open things up (patience).
yes, I meant to say “fumblies”.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jul 14, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Am I going nuts?
For some reason I remember Green putting it on the turf a lot, but the stats aren’t showing it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=243281
by Artiefufkin10 on Jul 14, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
ah rose bowl in 2009...
who’d have thought espn’s stats weren’t accurate?
by Artiefufkin10 on Jul 14, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the fumblies were his problem.
Pass blocking was. He did well against LSU, though.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I think he's been pretty good
He doesn’t fumble much, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he can catch a ball other than screen passes.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Yeah I guess I exaggerated it a bit in my mind...
but if he could be the man, he would be awesome at it.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jul 14, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I’d like to see Drake get a shot. He just looks like a play maker to me.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Yeah, I just worry a little bit about his zigging and zagging, but he is electrifying in the open field. He makes me nervous b/c tacklers end up in his blind spot and if he’s not careful he could fumble…
Do you want the mustache on, or off?
Too bad.
I agree with Green
and hope you’re right about that the athleticism of our depth pays dividends.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I can agree with everything
you say about the depth trickle down to special teams. But that makes it appear that ST is a last priority.
It wasn’t that long ago that players were on the field for pretty much the whole game. If injuries affect the team that badly that you are left with fat and grisle to field the special teams, why aren’t the best athletes from O & D pulling ST duty?
I’ve asked this before – do the players see ST duty as 2nd prize at the beauty contest? Again, it would appear so to me. Once you secure a starting position on O or D – how many players, other than the return men, are on ST as gunners or blockers?
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
I dunno
I kind of like playing the young kids on special teams. If Joe puts Sean Lee out there and he tears up a knee, everyone would fall out of their chair yelling, “WTH is Sean Lee doing on the punt team?”
I’m no football expert, but being on the punt coverage team sounds pretty simple. Hold your block long enough to protect the punter. Get off your block to get down field. Shed the block to get to the ball carrier. Make the tackle.
I would think even a freshman could pick that up in under five minutes. The key is having the strength, speed, and technique to pull it off.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
Seems like the opposite is true too
If Lee is out there and blocks a punt to win a game (cough, cough, Clayborn), Paterno looks good for having the cahones to have a star player out there on special teams.
I don't get the opinion that we don't make special teams a priority.
Why? Becuase we don’t embelish a coaches title to indicate that he has responsibility for it? Does anybody honestly believe that nobody coaches the special teams? They just run ten guys and a kicker out there and tell ’em to have at it?
Obviously that’s nonsense.
Penn State is usually pretty solid on special teams. Last year they sucked. Most years they’re a plus not a minus though.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
by jesse. on Jul 14, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it did seem like they just ran ten guys and kicker out there last year
but you’re right, of course ,that somebody coaches special teams. but it’s kinding of like cleaning the kitchen: if it’s everyone’s responsibilty, then it’s no one’s responsibility.
Who focuses on the ST film, for example? I’m sure this is all figured out within the coaching staff, but since I don’t know how this is managed, JoePa’s gotta be the fall guy.
Of course, Joe’s always the ultimate authority, but if I don’t like the play of the D-Line or qbs, I don’t blame joe, I blame LJ or Jay.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
After last year's
debacle – it didn’t appear that special teams was even on the radar.
In my comment I wasn’t really asking about coaching assignments, I was wondering how the players perceived being on special teams vs. Offense or Defense. Is it a badge of honor or just 2nd prize until they move up the depth chart and win a “real” starting position?
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
I think part of it is getting the younger kids experience in several regards.
I think the fastest plays on the field are special teams plays. Get used to the speed of the game through trial by fire.
You tend to be more on an island on special teams than anywhere else except man CB. You get used to the pressure of that.
And last, you play in front of 110,000. You get used to that.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
NCAA 11...
In my dynasty on NCAA 11, Green returned the openning kick-off against Iowa for a touchdown. Was pretty sweet.
by dontcallmescooter on Jul 14, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
Re: churp...churp....churp
Thanks! I think my life was a little empty not having had a visual of an audio of the polishing of a turd ;)
Since joining the Big Ten, Penn State has a record of 103-2 in games where they score 30 points or more. Of course, which college football team doesn't have a similar record.
tee hee hee
baconway ftw!
Since joining the Big Ten, Penn State has a record of 103-2 in games where they score 30 points or more. Of course, which college football team doesn't have a similar record.
I just pictured someone physically punching a turd there.
Thanks!
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
lies, damn lies and statistics
Stats from gopsusports.com
PUNTING…….. No. .. Yards.. Avg .. Long .. TB.. FC .. I20.. 50+.. Blkd
Total………….. 59 .. 2419 .. 41.0 … 66 …. 12 .. 7 .. 23 .. 14 .. 3
Opponents…… 85 .. 3321.. 39.1 … 62 ….. 4 .. 30.. 20 .. 11.. 1
PUNT RETURNS No. Yards Avg TD Long
Total………….. 29 .. 144 ….5.0 .. 0.. 20
Opponents…… 20.. 308 .. 15.4 .. 1 .. 53
KICK RETURNS No. Yards Avg TD Long
Total…………… 38 729 19.2 0 54
Opponents…… 63 1372 21.8 0 44
My apologies for the crappy formatting.
As expected, punt returns, punts blocked and punt coverage is where we lost out last year. Check out that 10 yard difference in punt return average. The blocked punt by Iowa and the punt return that set up Ohio State’s first touchdown were the key plays in each of those losses. So yeah, improving in the punt game should help.
I liked Boone, but it seemed he was slow on getting his punts off and he couldn’t keep the ball out of the endzone to save his life. Lots of room for improvement.
I don't have anything quantitative here,
but I also thought he was a half step slow.
by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 14, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We discussed this lightly in one of the podcasts.
If you go back two years, PSU had very good special teams rankings:
(These are national rankings, btw.)
2008:
Net Punting #10 37.86
Punt Returns #39 10.36
Kickoff Returns #10 24.54
Back in ’07, here were the numbers:
Net Punting #3 39.43
Punt Returns #40 10.03
Kickoff Returns #64 21.02
I know this isn’t valid from practially any academic perspective, but I think there’s a certain amount of randomness to all of this mess. But when you see so many ST rankings in the 100’s, there has to be a problem. Timing is also an issue. I don’t give a crap if Youngstown State returns a punt for a touchdown in a 48-10 game. I do care when Ohio State or Iowa essentially wins a game on special teams.
Paterno has always been a “defense first, special teams second, offense third” kind of guy. I get that. But if special teams is going to have that sort of emphasis, and you’re going to play a conservative, low-scoring game in the biggest games of the year, ST’s can’t be leaking oil so badly in those games.
I don’t think I’ve solved anything here, but it felt good.
Got more suits than Jacoby and Meyers.
by Run Up The Score on Jul 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT reply actions
last year was the exception to the rule
They we’re top 20 in ST from 2005-2008. If they do less fair catching and don’t allow the beg play they should be ok.
by Cairo on Jul 14, 2010 12:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I honestly believe this.
The most important thing, the thing that must never be forgotten, is that when the other team punts, you get the ball. A fair catch accomplishes that. Everything after that is gravy.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
I agree with both of you.
"My, my, my, my, my, my, my Mitchell. What would your mama say?"
by ReadingRambler on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true. And I would take it if you could force the other team to do the same.
But just as important is being able to contain when you do punt. As pointed out above, if you fair catch, then have a 29 yard net punt, you just made your D’s job much harder.
by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 14, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My hope/expectation
is that an old timer like Joe hates more than anything to suck at special teams. For him, it’s about game management, field position, and special teams any time we’re on the road (or playing a quality opponent at home). Assuming he recognizes that we need improvement (how could he not?), I would guess he’d devote the time and resources to fixing it, because it probably burns him up more than any of us.
This is more about blocking & covering than anything else
Boone had plenty of length on his punts, and I’m sure whoever gets the job this fall will do just as well—let’s face it, the difference between a fair punter and a great one is an average of only a couple yards. It’s more important that we prevent big returns (both punt and kickoff), which means better coaching and better athletes on coverage teams. It was horribly frustrating last year to watch big return after big return, and I really don’t want to see it again.
As for our return teams: again, there is a wealth of speed on the team (Green, Powell, Drake, D. Smith), just like there was last year. But, we need better blocking.
Joe has always liked to put the young, inexperienced guys out on special teams, and I don’t see that mentality changing. However, I can’t imagine he’s going to allow for a repeat performance of last year’s special teams. So, perhaps the change will be in coaching.
by newenglandnittanylion on Jul 14, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
Part of the problem you bring up (not directly) is that Boone sometimes out-punted his coverage, which also creates issues.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Blocking
Last years blocking of the opposing teams gunners was terrible. Most of the time the gunner was within 5 yards of our punt receiver when he caught the ball. Watch the game films. Most times our blockers whiffed on the opposing gunners. On the other hand our gunners seemed to get tied up in a shoving matches giving the opposing team’s return man plenty of time to catch and find a return route. On kickoffs our guys were very slow getting down field. A return man at the goal line had 25-30 yards of open field in front of him. The biggest problem for our special teams is not coaching but personnel selection. With no single coach with specific responsibilities, no one is fighting to get the best people on STs.
I agree with this
Gunner blocking and kick off blocking were attrocious. One thing I noticed last year though, was that other teams kicked higher shorter kicks. You rarely saw 40+ yd kicks to PSU return people. Teams were satisfied giving PSU the ball 35-38 yds downfield with no return. It is hard to get a return on a short high punt. I really think PSU’s return game with Williams scared teams into the short punt game over the last couple years. I also hope to see Brown back their this year. He seemed to have a great feel for the punt return.
Need lots of help
I think we need to get a special teams coach and also if they went out and got some speed burners who can flat out GO we would improve quite a bit, Green does decent on KR but the punt return is not his thing.. Joe doesn’t really coach special teams that well anymore and that has cost them some games.
so which other position coach do you reccommend we get rid of?
since there is a limit on the # of coaches we can have.
And we have plenty of speed on the team, we just didn’t use them on returns last year, because we focused on possession, and just fair caught anyway.
by The JuggerNitt on Jul 17, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Speed doesn’t matter so much when blocking is subpar.
There is fire at the travel agency.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 18, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously
people who think Penn State doesn’t have any speed must not actually follow the team that closely, or look at the individual players we have. Smith and Green are two examples of “OMG SEC SPEED!!!!!” fast, despite playing for PSU.
by The JuggerNitt on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
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