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Ain't No Party Like An SEC Party


For a college football blogger, this has been the greatest offseason of all time. Big Ten expansion powered us through June. Then there was the USC scandal. And now the golden offseason is the gift that just keeps on giving. I'm talking, of course, of the growing story people are starting to call "Agentgate". Yesterday, the University of Georgia was the latest institution to be informed the NCAA was going to be stopping by for dinner to ask some questions.

ATLANTA -- Georgia associate athletic director Claude Felton says the NCAA has requested permission to conduct an inquiry on campus.

Felton said Georgia officials assured the NCAA it will receive full cooperation. He said the NCAA has asked that athletic association officials, coaches and student-athletes decline comment until the inquiry is completed.

Felton said the notification from the NCAA came late Wednesday afternoon. He told The Associated Press the instructions from the NCAA prevent him from disclosing any details about the reason for the inquiry.

TMZ.com is reporting that the Georgia player in question is wide receiver A.J. Green. Green was the Bulldogs leading receiver in 2009 with 53 catches for 808 yards and 6 TD. He is only a junior.

Star-divide

So let's get up to speed where we are at this point. This all started last week when the NCAA had some questions about the twitter account of Marvin Austin, a star defensive lineman at North Carolina. In particular, they were curious about a party that Austin attended in Miami along with fellow UNC player Greg Little.

The NCAA had a little sitdown with Austin, and from there their investigation moved on to South Carolina where they wanted to talk to tight end Weslye Saunders. From there they moved to Alabama to talk to junior defensive lineman Marcell Dareus  Which brings us to Georgia and A.J. Green.

Unrelated to all of this is a separate NCAA investigation into former Florida offensive lineman Maurkice Pouncey who allegedly accepted $100,000 in cash from an agent prior to the Gators' bowl game last season.

And folks, there's reason to believe this is not the end of it. As Exhibit A, a commenter on MGoBlog has this to say.

Yeah, I guess this party was huge. I was talking to a buddy of mine (bama fan) and the first thing he said to me was "we are so screwed". From what he has heard and read it involved 10 SEC teams and 40 total players. Now I'd imagine most of them are projected starters for their respective teams, that's going to hurt. The only schools I've heard that didn't have a player at the party are Vandy and Miss St.

I imagine every SEC coach is interviewing all of their players and SEC athletic directors are not sleeping well at night. Until all of the dominoes fall, a lot of people are going to be sweating bullets over this one.

Can we just knock the entire SEC down to 70 scholarships and ban them from the post season for two years?

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SEC is a sesspool

I’m living in Northwest Florida right now, and when the story about USC broke all the SEC fans were up in arms, yelling that they should have more sanctions. The second Florida was mentioned, all the fans here were saying, “It’s no big deal. He was leaving the school anyway. Why should the school get punished?” Now, it looks like the whole SEC is about to get a beat-down from the NCAA, and I can’t wait. The players that are involved should all lose their eligibility.

by usn_kologi on Jul 22, 2010 8:15 AM EDT reply actions  

The players schools that are involved should all lose their eligibility.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jul 22, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

SEC

I am loathe to subscribe to broad generalizations about complex and varied populations, a tendency about which I might post later for those of you traveling south intent on “making observations.”

However, yes yes yes, the SEC cheats like crazy. I see below that people are saying these violations — having to do with agents and runners — could happen anywhere since it’s largely out of the school’s control. And that’s true. But for the SEC coaches to slam podiums in outrage is akin to a mafia member growing indignant because they got nailed on tax evasion.

A story:

My father coached in a different sport, and 20+ years ago was an assistant for a big-name coach. Said coach was a stickler for the rules, but had a friend who coached at Mississippi State. MSU was in town to play the team my dad worked for and all the coaches went out to dinner. At one point my dad’s boss flat-out asked the opposing coach whether or not they cheated.

Long, awkward pause. My dad’s boss then said, “No, really. I don’t care. We don’t recruit against you guys. I just want to know.”

Mississippi State coach: “Hell, yes we cheat. How else am I supposed to convince an 18-year-old to come spend four years in Starkville, Mississippi?”

Laughter, and then another pause, before the MSU coach adds: “The only school that doesn’t cheat is Vandy, and they haven’t won a league game in four years.”

by tuscaloosalion on Jul 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think

I think the SEC just keeps Vandy around for academic reasons.

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is also some kind of strange tax benefit.

I remember seeing it during expansion talk. That’s why all the conferences (except maybe the formed Big XII – is Baylor private?) have one – Stanford, jNW, Duke, Vandy, and then most of the Catholic League. I’m not exactly sure what it is, but there’s something floating around there related to either taxes or government expenditures.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know about Vanderbilt.

But keep in mind, Stanford is really good at just about every sport other than football, and they’re not always a push over at football either. Northwestern, Duke (obviously) and even Baylor, do bring a fair amount of of success in other sports to the table. Only recently did the heirarchy become 1] Football 2] Who cares about anything else?

Most of these leagues B10, SEC, Pac10 were formed 60, 70 years ago, or more. The inclusion of a Northwestern or Vanderbilt, is more of an anomoly of that fact then anything else.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

and it would seem curious that there would be a private-school specific tax benefit…governments by and large attempt to privilege state schools to the exclusion of private ones.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

What would the SEC's collective GPA be without Vandy?

Either:

1. .003
2. Incomplete since none of them graduate.

43 DAYS 21 HOURS 50 MINUTES 11 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I responded to that today in the other thread.

As I southerner, I think you’re totally off-base with your generalization of southern ethics. You can’t say that northern, western, or mid-western companies necessarily act any different than a “Southern company” would. And are all of the top people in the company southerners, or do you have some imports like yourself? I think as I southerner, I was brought up with a very good appreciation of right and wrong and fair play and was taught that I should make the moral choice, not the one that is always in my best interest.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

I’m not a “southerner,” but I’ve lived here long enough to have learned some things, and I’m with Paige.

One is that such broad generalizations are problematic. Is one area of the country really more or less “moral” or “ethical” than another? How can you even begin to quantify that? If you wanted to make a point about a history of corruption in, say, the Louisiana governor’s office, fine … but now you’re talking about a specific political spot in a specific state, hardly an indicator of the moral compass of an entire region (or even that entire state).

Another thing I’ve learned is that when person A makes fun of how person B talks, person A comes off looking the worse for it. Actually, I learned that one in middle school, but it’s worth noting again.

by tuscaloosalion on Jul 22, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That said...

… the SEC tends to cheat with great fervor.

by tuscaloosalion on Jul 22, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the backup.

I partially agree with your assessment about the SEC, but as you point out, that’s much more specific than all Southerners. I would also venture to say that not all SEC teams cheat, but most do.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yinz talk sillu n'at.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

Everyone who’s ever spoken has done so with an accent.

by tuscaloosalion on Jul 22, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, except me and James Earl Jones.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I swear the people out here in Michigan (and not those stupid yoopers...they're basically canadians anyway)

talk with about as little of an accent as possible. I know everyone speaks with an accent to everyone else, but they just seem to talk “normal” out here (and I’m relentlessly made fun of for the way I say water, daughter, quarter, tournament, etc)

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

not according to wikipedia

as you can see

Im a firm believer that no place lacks an accent. Thats what makes it an accent. I grew up in NEPA, who is to say thats not the perfect way to sepak English? (Ok everyone says that). But the point is there. Even if you spoke perfect non accented english, to everyone else it would be an accent.

And I went to Syracuse with two guys from Michigan and they sounded like a cross between Bobby’s World and Edward Rooney’s assisstant in Ferris Bueller

by swiggy04 on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

first post

born in Montreal, grew up as a townie near state college, attended PSU, now working up in Montreal. I get razzed for my “American accent” a lot. It’s all good natured though, a couple brazilian chicks I work with said they want to speak like me, which is kind of odd.

"all my bitches, take some shots!"

by dankdiggety on Jul 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

also, know i'm gonna catch hell but

while I am a PSU alum, my entire family are Notre Dame fans, so that’s my first team to root for. PSU is a second, and there’s usually no issue unless they play. I did catch hell for wearing an ND hoodie to the bar when they won that game a few years back. also caught more hell when ND lost and I wore the same hoodie

"all my bitches, take some shots!"

by dankdiggety on Jul 23, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

you deserve all the hell that you get

not even your touchdown Jesus can save you. This is why you were banished to Canada to suffer a lifetimes worth of politeness and free healthcare.

PS your Brazilian co-workers sound hot.

by swiggy04 on Jul 23, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Needless shitty and snarky post withheld.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow

i’m in the same boat as you: i’m a psu alum, but my whole family is nd fans (and alums).

But I made the rational, classy, smart, sophiticated and obvious choice: I root for Penn State first, last, and always.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 23, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, there are rules for these sorts of things

if you are an alum of a school, then that has to be your #1 team. Only exceptions are if you grew up a lifelong fan of another team, but weren’t accepted, but in that case you should say “screw them” and still root for your alma mater.

Some people are allowed to have secondary teams. Those aforementioned "lifelong family " teams are one case The other is going to grad school, and the third is if you live in an area, so long as it isn’t a rival. You are allowed to root this team on so long as the outcome doesn’t negatively affect your primary team.

spakajewia does this right, dankdiggety does it wrong.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: grad school secondary teams

This bit of silliness drove me nuts in grad school. “Hey, did we win this weekend?” Who’s “we,” sucka?

by BurrowesBldg on Jul 23, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Horse Malarkey

I live in Morgantown and have a Master’s from WVU.

The only item in my house with a WVU logo is my diploma.

My man-cave is done in PSU themes, right down to the “official” paint from Home Depot, and my wife (also PSU alum) only permits the PSU house flag during football season.

by MorgantownLion on Jul 23, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree...

But believe that actively belittling a school you went to is counter-productive. Obviously you don’t have to be the biggest WVU fan in the world. Wishing them ill on the other hand would be strange. You are conected to your graduate school as well as your undergraduate school.

Frankly, I don’t make a nickel of my Penn State degree. It’s kind of ironic that my Penn State man cave was funded, in it’s entirety, by money I make using my Pitt graduate degree.

I try to be respectful of that.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying that you HAVE to have those teams as secondary teams

but if someone were to have that secondary team, it is in this case acceptable.

Right now I live in East Lansing, and attend Michigan State, and I root MSU on because all my friends here do, and it is enjoyable. I even own a couple MSU shirts, and one hoodie that I never wear. Meanwhile I wear my PSU stuff at least a couple times a week, have PSU decals on my car, and PSU posters and stuff all over my walls, and my dog’s name is Nittany. I even usually will turn down going to/watching MSU games in favor of watching PSU games on TV.

Basically, no one would ever accuse me of being a Spartan fan, but so long as they aren’t playing PSU, I root them on. I could just as easily always root against them, or ignore them, but I don’t think I’d have as much fun if I did that.

On the other hand, if I decided that my secondary team was going to be Michigan, or OSU (cuz they’re good), I would have no real basis for doing so other than being a bandwagon fan, and I should then be mocked mercilessly.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It helps that you didn't go to Wisconsin for grad school.

I was ready to root for them as a secondary team until their fans proved to be wankers.

by BurrowesBldg on Jul 23, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquette is much easier for grad school

I get to hate a lot of the same teams with basically no conflict between undergrad and grad schools.

"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."

by IcersGuy on Jul 23, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what I'm doing at Minnesota

I still feel dirty wearing Gopher t-shirts though.

by Kyle_Martin on Jul 24, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Same situation for me with MSU/Illinois

Starting to pick up a tertiary rooting interest from moving to Austin, but that will always be a distant third.

by SpartanDan on Jul 24, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been angrily shouted down on this issue before.

But my college football impression if your not rooting for the school you went to college at, your rooting for the school someone else went to college at. This would bother me a great deal, if it doesn’t bother you (not you specifically of course) that’s none of my business.

Rooting for the team near you should be reserved for professional sports.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not completely sure I understand what you are saying

but I guess I shouldn’t really include living in the area as true “fandom”. It is more like, when I’m with a group of people, and they’re all rooting for the area team, and I have no particular care for either team, I then root for that team as well, sometimes to the point of actually caring a little bit about them. It pales in comparison to the way I root for PSU, but I still consider myself somewhat a fan of that team.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, you are arguing that only college graduates can root for college football teams? And furthermore, only college graduates from schools which have football teams have that honor? Seems silly.

I think it’s odd to do as the above poster said and root for Notre Dame despite attending PSU. You should root for your undergrad school if they have a team. But if they don’t have a team or you didn’t go to college, what’s wrong with adopting a local college team as your own or a school you are connected to in some way (like a family member went there). No reason non-college graduates can’t enjoy college football.

by Laaaaazzz on Jul 23, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply to all

My opinion touches a nerve, especially when you impute to it a bunch of things I didn’t say. I’m not the Penn State fan police, and I never claimed to be.

I expressed an opinion about myself, a person I am qualified to talk about. I know for a fact, that had I gone to one of the other universites I was admitted to, for whatever reason, a key part of why I am a Penn State fan would be missing. To me. For me it was the last part I got, and maybe that’s why I’m such a dick about it.

It means more to me personally because I went to Penn State. What it means to you or whether it means more to you or not, I’m not qualified to say, and I didn’t. I’m not having a fan bigger d@#k contest here. I’m talking about myself.

But it’s certainly not “intelectually dishonest”, or any other kind of dishonest. It’s just regular old honest.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

if your not rooting for the school you went to college at, your rooting for the school someone else went to college at. This would bother me a great deal, if it doesn’t bother you (not you specifically of course) that’s none of my business.

And

I’m not having a fan bigger d@#k contest here.

Reading comprehension tells me those two don’t mesh; ain’t no imputing needed. Ain’t no Regular Old Honest either.

Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.

by jtothep on Jul 23, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well then the next beer is on me.

I certainly didn’t go out of my way to offend you, or anybody else in particular. While I fancy myself a decent writer, this is one topic I’ve never been able to get out in exactly the way I mean it. I suppose that’s on me.

I’ll probably try again in the future, I am a glutton for punishment. But for today I think I’m done.

No hard feelings (even though you called me a dick). Peace.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beers to the rescue

Fair enough, dude (not dick). I’ll look forward to your next attempt. You know I love your superiority angles, especially when pointed outward at other teams and fans. Turning that incisive eye inward raises the importance of caution and delicacy, or at least exposes the possibility that you’ll come off condescending to your mates.

If I’m not one of them, then bring it on, mofo. If I am, then let’s go have that beer.

Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.

by jtothep on Jul 23, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

not to speak for you

but to use a bit of an analogy, I sorta see it like this:
going to Penn State, you are a member of the Penn State family. Maybe in that family there is a really awesome grandfather (not really intending to mean JoePa, but it fits, so interpret away), and everyone in the community loves him, and has a connection to him, but actually being a relative, you feel a tighter bond to him than anyone else can really legitimately feel.

Sure, the people in his bridge club may be closer to him, and may know more about him than the grandkids, but there is some connection that is missing and they can never have. It doesn’t mean they are any less, it is just…different.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 25, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting

I get into an argument with one of my college friends all the time about this very subject. He and I attended Syracuse (whose football program is weak at best). He is from the Boston area and is a Syracuse diehard at this point in his life. I was born into a huge family of lion fans, and lived and died with the team up to this point. I didnt watch PSU as much in college (mainly because i was at tailgates for my own school, but also these were the “dark years” and you couldnt find them on TV often in upstate NY.

Anyway, he kills me for owning Penn State jerseys, hoodies, a helmet, a blanket, etc. I explain to him that everything PSU I have is football related, and so its not turning my back on SU. The hoodies all say Football on them, and the blanket is of beaver stadium. He claims i am a traitor to my school.

I always tell him hes from Boston, he didnt grow up with college football. I understand the area argument because thats how I became a PSU fan. None of my relatives attended Penn State, but they grew up Penn State fans as well. If PSU plays SU, i root for Penn State. I feel 27 years of fandom trumps 4 years of overpriced education i could have gotten for 1.95 in late chahhhges at the local library.

My question I guess is Am I a traitor? I am very insecure.

by swiggy04 on Jul 23, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not true.

We grow up and learn to root for anyone that plays BC. That’s growing up with CFB right?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 23, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you root for Syracuse in basketball over PSU? If so, then I’d argue you’re a traitor because it’s basically bandwagoning for PSU because they are better than Syracuse in one sport and falling back on your alumni status otherwise.

Regardless of that, I’d argue that you should root for Syracuse over PSU in football as well in general, but everyone is entitled to their personal choices. Actually attending a school makes you a part of that institution, something you don’t have with PSU despite years of fandom. To each their own though and anyone can root for whomever they like; it really is a personal matter.

by Laaaaazzz on Jul 23, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's saying two things

One is a lame attempt to marginalize the dickishness of the other. That it stems from his pride at having attended and graduated from Penn State himself does only a small little to diminish said dickishness. That he’s using a ‘none of my business’ line (the lame attempt) to slightly backpedal from the (not even) thinly veiled aspersion that a graduate’s fandom exceeds that of a non-graduate (the dickishness) is at least somewhat of an improvement upon what he’s been angrily shouted down about in the past.

But it remains intellectually dishonest and, frankly, the ugliest of jesse.’s otherwise estimable offerings to this community.

Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.

by jtothep on Jul 23, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you.

Its all this kind of superiority complex, “I’m better than you” bullshit that pisses me off.

Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

by Roland86 on Jul 26, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

good points, everyone

and yeah, i know i know it’s pretty lame. but what are you gonna do. i can’t choose my family.

interesting discussion about the grad school issue. i have a friend who grew up in alabama, went to USC, then grad school at NIU. So he roots for 3 teams. i bust on him all the time for rooting for two perennial powerhouses.

I didn’t bother applying to ND, my high school grades were terrible due to fishing and pot being rightfully more important.

"all my bitches, take some shots!"

by dankdiggety on Jul 23, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I won't mock you.

You don’t deserve that. Welcome to BSD.

But I do think Notre Dame should go take a walk off a short pier. You don’t have to go with them, of course, you seem cool.

Friend of the Pants since 2009.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 23, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

and if you ask those 11 players (or whatever it is)

they might agree (though maybe they just stick to the EtOH)

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 25, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Along this line of thinking

I tend to hate schools with fan bases that do not largely consist of alumni- Miami, tOSU, USC, Florida, etc. Typically the most obnoxious fans don’t have a connection to the school beyond the sucess of the football team.

I lived with a guy right out of college that was a PSU fan but didn’t go to school there. He was the first one to find the opposing fans and mock them. It actually made me more mad than any OSU (or similar) fan ever has. We have class at PSU. I am diehard, but the school is more to me than the record of the football team. I always welcome opposing fans, and shake their hands at the end of the game win or lose. The fact that opposing fans associate the actions of a select few with no real connection to the school with the school is disheartening.

That being said, I do have some friends and acquantances that are alumni of those schools. They typically show the type of class and civility that my fellow PSU alumni do. Its unfortunate that their reputations get tarnished by bandwagon fans who don’t act like ambassadors for their respective schools.

by psuphysicist on Jul 26, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I continue to wish I had a southern accent

There’s more good about the south than bad. Even if they are a bunch of racist, illiterate hillbillies. (just kidding)

My wife has an irrational fear of the south. Anyone who’s spent anytime traveling through the deep south will appreciate that it is naturally beautiful, the people are uncommonly friendly, the music is magical, and the food is delicious. What else do you want?

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like it if they's stop cheating so much at football.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Tell your wife to come for a visit,

we’ll treat her so nice (said in my deepest Southern accent) that she’ll want to move here after that!

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with them folks down south is that they don’t know how to throw the cow over the fence some hay good.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Granted, one example does not a law make.

But I work for a southern company, as I mentioned, that had bought out the northern company that I work for. And the southern company’s blatant and belligerant disregard for our union contract, which THEY signed and agreed to, is abhorrent. If I even thought my kids would act this way, I would drown them so as to not turn such morally bankrupt people loose in the world to run amok in society. And when looking at industry standards in how they manage and pay their employees, I, and along with a lot of my fellow employees, do not share a great love of the south. Factor that in with Florida fans thinking USC should have been hung, but should look the other way at their transgressions, just adds to my prejudice about the sliding scale of southern ethics.

43 DAYS 20 HOURS 57 MINUTES 54 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure we're just talking about football here.

Both I, and I presume your kids, would like you step away from the proverbial bath-tub here. Nobody wins with Infanticide. Well, lovers of peace and quiet do, but the cost is simply too high.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Jesse. You're right. This ain't no place for politics, work, and social

issues. We should focus on football.

WE ARE!!! PENN STATE!!!

SEC CHEATS!!!

MICHIGAN SUCKS!!!

43 DAYS 20 HOURS 52 MINUTES 11 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Talk about whatever you want

Just don’t kill your kids

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

what about if they are really obnoxious?

like for example, if they wear Michigan gear just to spite you while you watch Penn State games? The judge and jury will certainly see that the kids had it coming…right?

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Multiple defenses are possible:

1. The judge and jury may say the kids had it coming.
2. I could plead insanity. How many of us truly hate and despise UM?
3. Crime of passion. I saw that hideous gold “M” and flipped out.

43 DAYS 19 HOURS 38 MINUTES 48 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hesitant to jump on the hater parade

Not to say I’m not enjoying this immensely, but if the problem with agents and runners is really as rampant as the SEC coaches are saying, the B10 might not be immune to all of this.

Then again, this could just be the SEC coaches trying rationalize what is happening. If it’s happening to all of us, then that makes us less scummy individually, right?!

by psuwxman on Jul 22, 2010 8:32 AM EDT reply actions  

One party?

At this time were just talking about one party right? So yeah there were a ton of players there, but if its just one party in question, then maybe the big ten can stay above the fray.

by RitterPSU on Jul 22, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I sure hope not!

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe so

Maybe tomorrow we’ll find out Evan Royster was there. But until then, we mock them mercilessly. These are the ways of the internet.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well I'm not just talking about one party

As in the post above, Pouncey was a totally different incident, and who’s to say there wasn’t some big bash in Chicago or Indianapolis or something? I know, I know, it’s not South Beach, but still. And then there’s still the individual cases.

But, yes: Until that point, I’m just tickled pink and enjoying gloating.

by psuwxman on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Because it’s Indianapolis (I could see one in Chicago, though…)

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jul 22, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love you, Mike.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, maybe just your face...

"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler

by leeharvey418 on Jul 22, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s why your girlfriend never called you back for a second date.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Poor Skins4ever....

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure are.

I think you can even get PSU logo’d ones at the student book store.

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right,

but the one at SBS has penn state colors and logos.

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

and costs a million dollars

"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who

by afields16 on Jul 22, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if Evan Royster was there, we mock them mercilessly.

All the SEC does is cheat. No doubt about it now, the reason the SEC has been so dominant for so long is that they cheat. Just like USC. This really looks good for the NCAA. All their top dogs found guilty of cheating. Yet here we are, clean as a whistle, and just a slight tad below them. Guess if they didn’t cheat we’d (not just us, but the Big Ten as well) would own their smelly, stinking asses.

Except for Michigan. They can’t even cheat right and win. They cheat and lose. HA!

43 DAYS 21 HOURS 45 MINUTES 43 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

my head is going to explode

trying to determine if you hate the SEC, southern corporations, or Michigan more.

by swiggy04 on Jul 23, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's always comforting

to know that WE have never had an NC2A problem or that Joe has been able to handle himself without sanctions…HOWEVER, with all the crap going on today, how do you watch every kid 24/7….it’s everywhere and it’s not too far-fetched to imagine the 4th string center, for example, stumbling into a “party” somewhere and you just don’t know. Hope WE can still avoid this current mess.

by DerryPharmer on Jul 22, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Valid point.

It easy to tell when a kid shows up to his high school prom in an expensive car that he has no means to afford, but how are coaches expected to monitor what parties a kid attends when he is hundreds of miles away from campus?

by VVeRPennState on Jul 22, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair to Pryor...

I borrowed a friend of the families Z06 to take to my Senior prom so I didn’t have to drive there in my beat to hell 89 GT, rust spots and all. Now, if he got to keep the car…

by mvrck on Jul 22, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

why be fair to Pryor??

why? You know, everyone has corvetts, drives them…….

by BMAN13 on Jul 22, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was...

Jim Tressel a family friend of YOURS too??

by mir5054@psu.edu on Jul 22, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

"that Joe has been able to handle himself without sanctions"

That Joe does handle himself. That’s the whole point about “Pete the Cheat” and the SEC, they don’t handle it and it runs rampant.

by Frank O'Brien on Jul 22, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know if the end result of "AgentGate" is going to be sanctions for the schools...

…assuming of course that they fully cooperate with NCAA investigations. But a fair number of good players will be losing at least a couple of games at the start of the season.

If your a Penn State fan, you want the investigation to drag as long as possible, because any games you play with a guy who’s ineligible would be forefiets, as such, if a player has questionable eligibility, he pretty much has to sit.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

This is looking good

I think that the starters from PSU can beat the backups from Alabama.

Big bucks no whammies!

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, great

So we can hear “yeah, but…” from south of mason/dixon for the next thirty years. I think I’d almost rather lose.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or worse...

We beat you with half our starters suspended and no retuners on the defensive side of the ball.

SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is a version of the now famous

colt mccoy argument.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 22, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

But it's the SEC M.O.

They have an excuse for any time they lose. When Georgia flops in a bowl game, it’s because their players don’t care. They can’t get motivated for anything less than a national championship, and the seniors were just looking ahead to the NFL combine.

LSU fans still refuse to admit PSU was the better team in the Capital One Bowl. We only won because the weather and field were terrible.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

to be fair (and I know, why be fair to the SEC, this is the internets)

I don’t think it is just an SEC thing. There are fans of any and every team who rationalize away losses like that.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

I’m not sure anyone was really making excuses after the Rose Bowl, or when Ohio State got served in those two title games. We just got flat beaten.

That said, I agree with your general statement that every fan base has folks like that. It just seems like there’s a higher concentration in the SEC, and that concentration is more vocal and influential on the national discussion than anything the other conferences have.

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

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by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, no excuses

“if Royster wasn’t hurt, our offense could have controlled the tempo more, and our defense could have been fresher”

“if Green didn’t fumble the ball”

“if Maybin wasn’t offsides”

“if not for the later part of the second quarter”

“if only it wasn’t Ohio State”

“The Big Ten has too long of a layoff before bowl games and the teams get rusty”

and on and on and on

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure those things were said.

That said, I don’t know many people who came away from that game convinced PSU was still the better team.

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

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by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, then PSU vs Iowa in 2008

“if not for Clark’s concussion”

“if not for the weather”

“if only we had sideline heaters”

“Scirrotto made a clean play”

“it should have been intentional grounding”

Or Michigan 2005: “2 seconds”

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michigan 2005: "2 second"

That’s not whining. That’s fact.

43 DAYS 20 HOURS 49 MINUTES 27 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

so are the supposed seconds JoePa got earlier in that very same game

trust me, I’m as big of a “we got screwed by the refs” person as there is, and I will pull out the “2 seconds” any chance I get, but here’s the only fact that matters: Michigan beat us in that game, and spoiled our undefeated season. I still also claim we were the better team.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Refresh my memory. I have that game on tape.

Maybe I can go back and watch it and see when we were given time. If we actually were given time, then I can’t morally or ethically say we got the shaft. At what point in the game was the clock adjusted in our favor?

43 DAYS 19 HOURS 35 MINUTES 11 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!

by Ab4PSU on Jul 22, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You also have to look at why the clock was adjusted.

If it’s adjusted because the clock continues to run after the whistle is blown, that’s one thing. But to put two seconds back on the clock because the coach claimed he called a time out that wasn’t seen was bullshit!!

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, I don't remember the specifics

and it doesn’t really matter, since there are so many instances in a game where a second here or a second there tick off (or don’t tick off) that the clock is hardly THAT accurate. The only time it really comes into play is in the final few minutes of a close game where clock management is actually an issue.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take a look at some of the spots Michigan got in that game

The 2 seconds don’t really bother me. But even the announcers (I think it was Nessler) mentioned something about the ref taking a “crooked walk” when spotting the ball. Even my Michigan friend that I was watching that game with (don’t get me started) noticed it.

by speedomike on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. I was more pissed off about that

than I was about the 2 seconds. It was the two seconds on top of all the other bad calls and gifts to Ann Arbor.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That game should have been over at 18-10

But we let them march right down the field, score, and get the 2-pt conversion.

by speedomike on Jul 22, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh.

Mario Manningham beat Justin King on a one-on-one play. Michigan played a great game and I give them credit for it. I just think – know – we would have won 4/5 out of times.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

sigh. I’m sick and tired of PSU fans whining about the 2 seconds. The 2 seconds being “added on” was a perfectly legit thing that happens non infrequently when timeouts are called and the clock is slow to stop. It’s a stupid thing to complain about.

And the problem is that it takes away from the actual legit complains about the shitty referring in that game. I mean, the bizarre crooked walks for first downs? The non call on the obvious fumble by UM’s running back (his name escapes me right now). And most egregiously — the real reason everyone should be pissed about the final UM drive — how Avant was improperly called in bounds when his heel landed out of bound and they didn’t even review the play. That was a real screw job.

The 2 seconds, not so much.

by Laaaaazzz on Jul 23, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

We were double screwed

and I say each of them still hurts. They cost us so much more than just that game, and I still haven’t gotten over 1994 yet so 2 seconds is going to be around a long time.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 23, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

That game sucked.

LIke I’ve said before, sometimes the soup is cold, and complaining about it doesn’t make you a whiner.

Further, if you have any confidence that you are going to get a close call at Michigan Stadium, you’ve lost your mind.

But it’s over now.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heck, you won't get a call even if it's NOT close

Like, say, the “touchdown” “catch” they had against MSU last year where the guy only landed two full yards out of bounds and the replay official made up a rule on the spot about the pylon.

by SpartanDan on Jul 24, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

The streak is over. But we still need to win us a dang MNC.

Friend of the Pants since 2009.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 24, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

as for the "routine thing when a timeout is called but the clock is slow to stop"

that is one thing, but this was a case where the timeout was called, not granted, and they retroactively added the time on. I remember during a game this past year the refs specifically talking about how it isn’t when you call the timeout, it is when the refs give it to you, in which case those seconds shouldn’t have been added back on.

Mike Hart (I’m pretty sure it was him) fumbled the ball, don’t know how they didn’t call it. The refs and their crooked walks REALLY PISSED ME THE EFF OFF. I was initially pissed off that they didn’t review the Avant play, but after rewatching it, I think he was in bounds. It has been a long time since I’ve rewatched that play, but I remember being satisfied enough that the call on the field at least wouldn’t have been overturned, and stopped fretting over that play.

Still, as Paige said above, it was the culmination of about 30 different things all going Michigan’s way that pissed me off the most.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's game type stuff

Saying “If he hadn’t fumbled…” is game type stuff. That’s different. SEC people seem to complain about forces outside of the game that cause them to lose. Like their players didn’t care or the weather was a factor. About the closest I’ve seen PSU fans come is complaining about officiating.

And as far as complaining about the layoff, I can’t recall anyone in the Big Ten complaining about the long layoff before the bowl games. That weak line comes from Mark May and the ESPN talking heads.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have

My personal number one reason for wanting the Big Ten to play later was to keep our team high in the minds of poll voters, but I think this argument is valid:

"When you play people [in bowl games] who have played games three weeks after you finished playing, I think you are at a disadvantage," Paterno said Tuesday afternoon on a Big Ten conference call.

by Aaron PSU on Jul 22, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

But the Big 10 could have added 1 more team a long time ago having a Championship game in December like SEC, and Big 12 have had for a while now. Credit Paterno for pushing for expansion.

by mjtig on Jul 22, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh

We could have easily scheduled games the first week in December without a championship game like the Pac-10 and the Big East do…

but it doesn’t matter come next year. Big Ten Football in December – Christmas comes early in 2011.

by Aaron PSU on Jul 22, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way...

no one was stopping you; I will look forward to Big 10 Championship Game also; any time frame when divisions will be announced

by mjtig on Jul 22, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Divisions will be "discussed" in a few weeks

League preseason meetings are coming up in August; once they have a final agreement, the divisions will be leaked announced, I’m sure.

(I’m curious: How do you like having Florida as a permanent interdivisional opponent? Do you like it better than when you had two interdivisional opponents?)

A few years ago we did decide to start playing Thanksgiving weekend … and it starts this year. Oh well.

by Aaron PSU on Jul 23, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

We used to play Thanksgiving weekend a long time ago.

I don’t remember when this changed, but Michigan State used to be on Thanksgiving weekend. My parents came up to Pittsburgh from Alabama for Thanksgiving 1993 and I drove over from State College. We were staying in a hotel and I had to watch the Penn State game in the hotel lobby for some reason.

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 23, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

We played MSU Thanksgiving week through 1998

and before Thanksgiving since 1999, with 2 exceptions:

1996 (before) and 2001 (after), likely due to schedulers forgeting that Thanksgiving comes on the 4th Thursday of November, which is not necessarily the last Thursday of the month.

by Aaron PSU on Jul 23, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Having Florida as permanent ido is great.

They are usually ranked high and the game is right in the middle of the season; if we are coming into the game undefeated or with one loss, it is often a huge top ten match-up—maybe like Michigan or Ohio St for you. I like having only one permanent ido because we get to play the other teams in the east a lot more often with two rotating games—Kentucky was our other permanent. SEC has great match-ups for permanent ido with Ga. vs Aub, Tenn vs Ala., S.C. vs Ark., Vandy vs Ole Miss, Miss St. vs Kent., and Fl. vs LSU. Good rivalries continued and teams that traditionally have not won a lot of football games are matched up. It will be interesting to see what Big 10 does; having power teams in each division is essential for balance; SEC has it with Ala—most dominant team in SEC history in west, and Fl—state loaded with talent and since the 80’s has been very successful in the east. They meet each other on the rotating schedule and have met in 8 of the 18 CCG. LSU and Aub in the west, and Ga. and Tenn in the east balance out for the next level and so on.

by mjtig on Jul 24, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

No excuses

I watched the game and Penn St. won; the conditions were the conditions—you were the better team; most people I know feel this way.

by mjtig on Jul 22, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

ESPN gets to broadcast the new depleted SEC.

I can hear their telecasts now, such and such would be soooo much better this year but they are missing a couple key players. Anyone sure this agent that held the party wasn’t hired by USC to try and stick it to the SEC?

by BMAN13 on Jul 22, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

In Terms of Watching Kids...

Quite obvious that Joe doesn’t have control of his kids, even on campus, we just do a great job of covering everything up. I am going into my senior year over at U Park, and have been in a few instances where I was extremely close to having my ass whipped because I told some players they need to keep their shirts on while at my party. It was warranted for the record…the statement, not the beating, ha.

by mir5054@psu.edu on Jul 22, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions  

WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST THIS?!!!

Huh?

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

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by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously,

Who doesn’t have a man-crush on Poz?

But also seriously, I’m pretty f***ing tired of the “JoePa has no control of the program” angle.

by psuwxman on Jul 22, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm skeptical that...

Misc. Football Player took jis shirt off at a party supports the "JoePa has no control of the program" angle as well.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not what I meant.

I don’t mean to single JoePa out by any means. He hit me with his car freshman year by East Halls, and I am proud of it. I just mean that I think we are not immune from this because it truly is nearly impossible in this day and age to know what they all are doing. That being said, the SEC is still the “Scumbags Everytime Conference”.

by mir5054@psu.edu on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

It not fair to compare our players being rude at your party with this.

The PSU players were attending your party as random college students. Odds are they arrived on foot or by taking the Blue Loop. They likely weren’t afforded any gifts outside of free booze, which was likely given to non-football playing students as well. They weren’t provided free travel for hundreds of miles to the party. They weren’t provided free lodging in a swanky hotel. They weren’t presented with all the talent that South Beach has to offer. They might not have been gracious guests, but last time I checked, that wasn’t an NCAA violation.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 22, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Easssssyyyyyy guyyyyyssss....

Merely saying it is impossible to escape something like this. Kids will be kids, and it is unrealistic to think otherwise.

…and nobody takes the blue loop.

by mir5054@psu.edu on Jul 22, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, one things for certain

Football players walking around campus like they own the place is not, in any respect, a recent phenomenon.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

or a PSU phenom

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 22, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

Let’s keep our arrows in our quiver.

Wait, bad metaphor.

by Cairo on Jul 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is that a reference to

the EZ Smith incident?

For the glory

by Paige2PSU on Jul 22, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Idk,

the Bloop forever has a special place in my heart.

by psuwxman on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

The talent at mir5054's party . . .

. . . probably takes issue with this:

They weren’t presented with all the talent that South Beach has to offer.

by BurrowesBldg on Jul 22, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

None.

It’s not in my house sweating on my things, haha.

by mir5054@psu.edu on Jul 22, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did Stan Pringle attend any of these parties?

Because that wasn’t his shirt…or sweat.

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

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by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

win

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

The best parties are in florida

This is very reminiscent of that party at Conseco’s house in Florida when every MLB star of the modern era was apparently there shooting steroids.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 9:39 AM EDT reply actions  

What's great

Is that it can be argued that this all started over a twitter message.

I hope these kids lose their eligibility and scholarships. That’ll learn’m

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

With the rise of social media, I am surprised it doesn't happen more often.

I imagine a lot of players commit NCAA violations simply out of ignorance and I would expect them to occasionally out themselves with a careless status update or twitter post.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 22, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think they grasp the concept of

IT IS OUT THERE FOREVER AND FOR ANYONE TO SEE

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 22, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

GENIUS!

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting how everyone is screaming to punish the players...

when it seems abundantly clear it’s the agents to blame in this case. and, just for the record, there’s nothing in any of these incidents to suggest the institutions themselves will face any sanctions. so much for wishful thinking.

as for the friend of the friend sec fan… we’re not sure what the hell he was talking about. nobody on roll bama roll thinks “were so screwed” over all this. right now the harshest possibility we are looking at is losing marcel darius for a month and that’s looking less likely by the day. (which is good news for penn state, i guess)

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 AM EDT reply actions  

and if this is just an excuse to bash the sec in general...

and alabama in particular, don’t let me stop you. but if anyone is actually interested in understanding what we’ve figured out in relation to this incident, let me know and i’ll try to pull together a reasonably short synopsis.

Roll 'Bama Roll: The Champagne of 'Bama Blogs.

by kleph on Jul 22, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

As would I.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I read your synopsis on RBR

And sorry, I’m not buying it. We’re supposed to believe that Dareus flew all the way to Miami to see his good buddy Austin not knowing where he got the money to pay for the plane ticket and not knowing who was going to be at the party? And we’re supposed to believe that once he got to this party with his buddy Austin he reimbursed him for the air fare, asked for a receipt, and flew home? I’m calling BS on that one. If he had the money to pay Austin for the plane ticket, why didn’t he just buy a plane ticket?

You guys should man up and say if this stuff is happening in or around your program, you want the players who take part in it gone. Don’t blame the agents. The kids have to make the decision to ultimately take the money. So far all I see from Alabama fans is excuses.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll add

That Alabama better be pretty damn sure that Dareus’ story isn’t nonsense if they are going to back him up on this.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't really been following this stuff at all.

But I can’t get too excited. Is anyone really going to be as stupid as USC? Again?

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

actually, we had a somewhat vibrant debate yesterday

about ways in which the ncaa could perhaps reform itself to police the agents rather than the players or schools in order to better deal with these incidents. Check one of the posts from yesterday.

I agree that the agents are to blame, but the student-athletes aren’t exactly saints in these accounts. They should no the rules and are fairly blantantly disregarding them.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

The students are to blame

They are receiving 4-5 years of free college tuition + room/board.

For those that had to pay their way through college through the use of student loans/aid/working part time jobs – it’s a slap in the face. For instance suppose you went to Penn State for 4 years and through student loans/grants/assistance/jobs/etc you graduated with roughly $45,000 in debt that’s a lot of coin to pay off.

That money going towards those bills over the next 20-30 years could have been put into a ROTH IRA or allowed an individual to potentially max out their 401 contributions with their employer.

To tell me I’m supposed to feel sorry for some student athlete because he got caught taking EXTRA benefits. Please! Be happy you’re getting a free education.

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is bs

Lots of students get full academic scholarships to attend schools. If they were offered a retainer to go work for some business before they graduated, it would not impact their scholarship at all. And they would take it.

If in your senoir year, some agent came up to you and said: it looks like you’re going to be a hell of a [engineer, doctor, writer, lawyer, philosher] and I want to offer you tens of thosands of dollars to be your agent in your pending career. What would you do? Say no?!?

Don’t hate these kids because they’re good at sports and receive benefits for it. Plenty of PSU football players do more for the university than the university does for them.

Playing sports is as much if not more work than a full-time job for most of these kids.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure.

But, one of the conditions of that scholarship is that they abide by certain rules, which are supposed to allow for fair competition amongst NCAA member schools.

I don’t hate on the kids for recieving an education, most of them earn it and then some. But regardless of the justification for breaking the rules, they still broke the rules.

It also merrits repeating, this wasn’t a bus ticket to Dad’s funeral, or even a suit for the Heisman Trophy ceremony. It was god damned party thrown by an agent in South Beach. These kids knew (or they damned well should have known) that it was against the rules. They just figured they wouldn’t get caught.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

As I said in my original response

I think the students are somewhat to blame here.

Alabama could just strip Dareus of his scholarship, and I’m sure the NCAA investigation would end pretty fast. They won’t do that; I’m not sure if they should or shouldn’t.

The way I look at this, the agents are the ones who instigate the wrongdoing. The NCAA is handcuffed by their jurisdiction; they attempt to deal with the situation by going after the schools—who they have some jurisdiction over, who proceed to perhaps go after the offending players. The offending party, however, is neither the school nor the player; it is the agent. The NCAA has no way to disincentive the agent, however, so they try to regulate through the back door.

This situaiton is why I proposed that the NCAA should partner with the NFL and/or NFLPA to collectively attempt to regulate the agents, as they are the ones who are starting the problems.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hurt them where it counts. The wallet!

I think instead of losing scholarships, anyone caught taking money from an agent should automatically forfeit 2 rounds in the NFL draft. That means any potential 1st rounder can only be taken in the 3rd round at least. The reduction of signing bonuses and pay available after the first couple rounds is pretty significant. Also, any agent caught bribing students with gifts should be limited on their commissions to 5%. That would be better than any one-time fines that either could incur.

by usn_kologi on Jul 22, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

why would the NFL do that, though?

this isn’t their problem, it is the NCAAs. The NCAA has NO power over the NFL or the NFL’s draft.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right,

these are PLAYER agents. The NFLPA certifies them. Being the ones with the vested interest, the NFLPA would have to bargain for rule changes in the next CBA. Do you think they are going to try and give something up with existing members at the table to get something for possibly future members?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saban seems to think that he has some power over the NFL

He’s threatening to bar scouts from his practice facilities, and if the NCAA as a whole barred NFL scouts from their institutions, which they could do—even if they wouldn’t—unless the NFL backed them up on agent issues, they might be able to influence.

It is true, of course, that the NCAA has no POWER over the NFL, but they do have a lot of influence with the NFL. Its best for the NFL product if college football is healthy and thriving; if it is perceived that the professional league is tainting college football, that’s bad for the NFL’s reputation.

And the NFL takes their reputation very seriously, as you can see in the way they treat players who find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

while I agree with your points

and think to some extent the NFL will work to make this situation better, what the NFL cares first and foremost about is getting the best players on their teams. Even guys with major character issues are still welcome on some teams (Vick, ugh, Pacman, TO, etc), so yes, I do see how the NFL treats their players who find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

And while barring access to scouts could potentially hurt, it isn’t like there isn’t a ton of game tape on the players in question already, and once they are done school and start going to the NFL combine and team workouts, the scouts will still get plenty of access to the players.

The only way the NFL backs this is if they deem it in their best (financial) interest to make sure that the college players have clean images, untainted by agent scandals, but again, it isn’t like these kids are doing anything illegal, just against NCAA rules.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny though

The NBA doesn’t seem to give a damn about ruining college basketball.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

why do you say that?

the rule requiring players to spend a year in college (or Europe) was expected to help the NCAA—that’s the way the NCAA saw it at the time. While you can certainly argue that it’s hurt the college game, that was not the intent.

The relationship between the two “leagues” is actually clearer in hoops. The NBA is helped immensely by the marketing push that the NCAA provides for star players. John Wall, Durant, Melo, etc. all were more valuable players (from a sales perspective) b/c they spent time in college and had national regonition.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Super selfish

NBA got free marketing, the NCAA now has to deal with players who don’t want to be there, destroy ARP scores, and don’t even hide talking to agents and accepting money because what do they care.

by STU Boy on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

at the time, the majority of coaches supported it

in retrospect, the ncaa got a raw deal. but going into it, i don’t think they expected that.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but the NBA didn't do it at all to help out the NCAA

they did it because the player coming out of high school was by and large an unknown commodity. Sure there are the LeBrons out there who will dominate at any level, but there were a lot of LeBron wannabes who bypassed college straight for the NBA when they clearly weren’t ready. On one hand the NBA teams can’t pass up drafting a potential superstar, but on the other, more often than not it hurt them.

In comes the rule forcing the players to play at least a year in college, and all of a sudden it is a LOT easier to evaluate how good these guys actually might be, and the NBA gets to do it for free, since it now becomes the NCAA teams’ responsibility.

Sure the NCAA teams thought it would be good, since they’d get more/better talent, but as STU Boy points out, none of these guys actually cares about college for college. They see it as a farm system they have to go through to make it to the NBA.

This seems a bit more prevalent in basketball than it does in football, perhaps because in basketball you can get by on raw ability without regard to technique, which isn’t as easy to do for football. Still you get guys like Clarett and Williams who try to bolt early for the NFL and instead get shot down and have to play by the “wait a few years” rule.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course the nba didn't do it to help out the ncaa

you seem to be missing my point. i believe that on several different initiatives it is in the best interest of both the NCAA and the pro leagues (either the nba or nfl) to work together. If you asked the David Stern or Roger Goodell, I’m sure they would agree.

That’s all I’m saying. This isn’t a zero sum game where if the NBA or NFL wins, the NCAA must lose or vice versa.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The NBA's problem

was that they were getting a draft lousy with high school kids, and the wash out rate was starting to get real high, so they made everybody go to school for a year to see if they could play.

In that context how many kids go to school for a year then go to the draft, ten? That’s not so bad. Also, keep in mind a bunch of kids that would have gone to the NBA and washed out in a week now spend at least a couple of years of school. That’s good.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know?

What else really needs to be done? The kids did something that is pretty clearly against the rules. They’ve been caught, they’ll be punished. What’s going to happen? They’ll miss some football games? Who cares?

I’m not certain what the punishment will be, but if RBR is correct, and it’s three games tops, do we really need congressional action? My point from yesterday was that this was exactly the sort of thing that USC ignored for a period of years. Then obstructed the NCAA investigation into. Then when all signs pointed to them being guilty as sin, got defiant and douchy about.

What happend here is much more akin to USC finding out about Reggie Bush in 2004 then acting promptly to investigate the situation, report the violation to the NCAA and discipline the player as appropriate. In that circumstance, USC isn’t staring down the barrel of the death penalty.

Saban pointing out that Alabama didn’t do anything wrong may be directly on point. They might not have. Of course, Alabama has some credibility issues of it’s own, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wait for the balance of the investigation to conclude before making judgments.

It may be that this all one big giant non-issue. But the lesson to be learned is crystal clear. The NCAA requires you to know what your student athletes are up to. Right or wrong, that’s the new standard. Ignore it at your perril.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think part of the problem is Saban going

“on the offensive.” I’m not saying Alabama (the University) did anything wrong here, but the press conferences begging for the NCAA and NFL and everyone else to do something after the fact is . . . curious?

In my opinion, he should have left that to his AD (Saban’s not the AD is he? I’m asking because I don’t know, not as some joke). The HC doing it right when a player is potentially “busted” smacks of guilt.

I would love to hear your take on that maneuver?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alabama AD

Alabama’s athletic director is Mal Moore.

by Nittanian on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what does Mal mean in English?

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Jul 22, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best movie I've seen this year.

Well, the only other movie I saw was Alice in Wonderland 3D and blew some serious ass. But Inception was EPIC Christopher Nolan.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Jul 22, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've debated it on other websites

but I will not do it here.

All I will say is…it was a pretty good movie.

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

If a player committed an act

that ruins their amateur status than they should be dealt with accordingly. If a program turns a blind eye to these activites and it can be proven than the institution should rear some of the punishment as well.

The players aren’t poor little bambis innocently prancing through the the woods until a big bad bear leaps out of the shadows and viciously disembowels them. From the moment they step on campus the rules are practically drilled into the player’s heads. All these guys that partied in South Beach knew exactly why they were there.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is correct

It appears that the SEC institutions are adressing this particular matter properly. It doesn’t hurt that USC just got creamed for the same basic problem. Might be some motivation to cooperate with the NCAA.

by BMAN13 on Jul 22, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously

never watched Bambi.

"The North isn't a place. It's just a direction out of the South."
--Roy Blount, Jr.

by animalcracker on Jul 23, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

the agents are wrong, absolutely

but please don’t tell me the players did not realize that what they were doing was wrong.

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 22, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is an institutional and player issue, not an agent issue

All the agents are doing is acting in their own best interest. They want to secure talent and make money. Blaming the agents for the wrongdoing is like blaming a Columbian drug lord for your cousin’s coke problem. Said cousin has the problem because he’s an idiot and his parents (the schools in this analogy) didn’t instill good values and discipline. Does it make their actions good or noble? Not really, but to blame them for the problem is a little absurd.

Idle talk and hollow promises; cheating Judases; doubting Thomases

by ckmneon on Jul 24, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

so would you rationalize buying politicians simply because a person is doing what’s in their best interest?

I mean, if a player is tanking huge sums of money, then that’s definitely on him. But there are a lot of shades of gray because these agents do some slimy stuff. The first time Alabama got on probation was because after our 1992 championship an agent got a player drunk at a bar and had him sign a contract on a bar napkin. The NFLPA already requires agents to have certification, and ethics should be a part of that certification.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 24, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that's taking it a bit far.

Blaming the agent is like blaming the local drug dealer who follows your 12 year old cousin walking home from school every day and constantly pressures him to try coke so he can make him a long term customer for your cousin’s coke problem.

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 27, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its odd what Saban is threatening.

If agents and scouts have easy access to players this is going to happen. Every school has the ability to make situations like this harder to occur. People complain that Joe doesn’t give access to scouts and agents at PSU and this hurts their draft stock but what he is doing is doing his best in monitoring his student athletes. I have no sympathy for a school that makes the locker room and practice open season for the scummy agents because along with the good agents you will get the corrupt ones. Any school or fan base that bitches about agents having access need only look at the policies that their coaches have pertaining to player/agent access.

by BMAN13 on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

SEC: It's no Scranton.

Ain’t no party like a Scranton Party, ‘cause a Scranton party don’t stop! Huh huh huh!

by Cairo on Jul 22, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll see your photo

and raise you a video

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 22, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

DYNOMITE!

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

This has been the summer of sports news in general. It is so crazy that things like Christoph Lemaitre running a 9.98 100m two weeks ago – the first time a caucasian man has ever done this, after a century’s worth of sprinters – doesn’t become an ESPN headline and barely gets a blurb on Deadspin. We’re buried in news.

by gumbercules on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 PM EDT reply actions  

We're buried in hype

The LeBron saga wasn’t news nearly as much as a publicity stunt.

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw that for five seconds.

And I turned it off as soon as I realized what it was.

I’ll never get those five seconds back… Kind of like I’ll never get the ten minutes I spent with my head in my hands, wondering how Allan Evri**** could be such an idiot as to THROW at Malcolm Jenkins in 2008…

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 25, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not a story because it's not a story.

He didn’t set any records, so it’s a non-story. Maybe if he wins something or beats Usain Bolt straight up, then they’ll report it.

by Cairo on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

the only reason this is a story is because of the racial undertones, and most media outlets try to stay away from things like that.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not true.

He set the French national record. Are you saying you don’t care about the French national record?

But thank you for saying it, he was what? The 20th or so person to run sub 10? Why is that news?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, only if they also report if someone breaks Estonia's national record as well

national records when you don’t live in that country = don’t care
world records = care

Impressive feat, nonetheless, just not newsworthy.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

ESTONIA!

Do you think that record is ready to fall? Tell me about the Estonian sprinter coming though the ranks?? I’m dying to know.

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question.

Where does “French National Speed” fall in the SEC Speed Big Ten Speed continuum?

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if they're running the opposite direction though?

Could be faster than SEC, no?

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The real accomplishment was

getting him onto the track to compete.

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?

anybody know the punchline?

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

none?

They can’t defend paris, they have to ask the americans and British to do it

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

you got the gist of it, but the punchline is:

No one knows; it’s never been tried.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, they did it in '14 almost by themselves.

The British were lazy in the beginning. However, I blame Von Kluck’s Turn for the German failure, not the French.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to ask you to nip this in the bud.

The French lost 1.4 million men in WWI. That’s Russian-meat-grinder level bonkers. They get to take a century off in my book.

by BurrowesBldg on Jul 22, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Imagine a bus full of fifty green recruits going to Verdun in '16.

Basically, they’d be lucky if two or three survived.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

once the government leaves the city

it’s already lost. it was a morale victory at that point.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're kidding, right?

There were no German coronation ceremonies as in 1871, were there?

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have a hell of a sense of a humor about the frogs

When the government ups and runs from Paris to wine country when the germans are 15 miles away, you can make the argument that the french never tried to defend it.

I have no idea what you’re talking about re: 1871.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany was proclaimed Emperor in 1871 in Versailles, home of Louis the Sun King, in the midst of a defeated French people.

I fail to see how the First Battle of the Marne is a case of the French not trying to defend the city.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i take it all back

the french are brave and noble soldiers and always have been.

I need a drink: maybe some freedom wine to wash down these freedom fries.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are just making this stuff up.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was a poor choice of words.

Nonetheless, I quote Barbara Tuchman on the “mercurial” Sir John French and the legendary Battle of Mons, which was placed in the pantheon of Great Britain alongside Agincourt and Hastings.

The battle, before the retreat began, lasted nine hours, engaged two divisions, or 35,000 British soldiers, cost a total of 1,600 British casualties, and held up the advance of Von Kluck’s army by one day. During the Battle of the Frontiers, of which it was a part, 70 French divisions, or about 1,250,000 men, were in combat at different times and places over a period of four days. French casualties during those four days amounted to more than 140,000, or twice the whole BEF in France at that time.

After the battle at Mons, Sir John again seemed anguished at the thought of even spending one more night in France. The majority of the officers of the BEF along with their NCOs and foot soldiers would redeem themselves that winter, but the hesitancy of the British higher ups nearly lost the war.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was it laziness or politics

I thought the Labourites were holding them back.

by Frank O'Brien on Jul 22, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Sale

Authentic 1900 French rifle. Only dropped twice!

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Emile Zola. With his pencil.

Great movie.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

but I tried to “race a Cheetah” at the new cheetah exhibit at the Indianapolis zoo (you don’t actually race a cheetah, just run down a track and they have light markers showing where the cheetah would be in relation, and then also show where you were when it finished the race, as well as where an NFL RB would be, and where the world’s fastest human, presumably Usain Bolt, would be), and I can confirm that I am indeed slow. Since I come from Big Ten country, and performed this race in Big Ten country, I can confirm that the Big Ten is indeed slow.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet you would run even faster if

they released the cheetah after you.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

possibly

though I doubt it would matter much. On that note, if I were to have a big cat come after me, I would much rather it be a cheetah. They are practically tame compared to lions and tigers (and also weigh about 1/4 as much).

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 22, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on popular opinion

Big Ten = snail, French National Speed = Cheetah, SEC = SR-71 Blackbird

by usn_kologi on Jul 22, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's 20 years old!

He’s not done developing and he’d be the fastest man in college football. Why immediately compare him to the greatest sprinter of all time, who also is older than him? It’s a shame Royster can’t run like Walter Payton but we respect his ability regardless. Plus, Bolt’s best time as a 20-year-old? 10.03.

by gumbercules on Jul 22, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Trindon Holiday graduate?

Didn’t he run a 40 yard dash in 2 seconds, in pads, on a wet field once?

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeff Demps, I believe, stole his thunder.

Between Florida and Alabama, they’ve taken away pretty much all of LSU’s ability to chest-thump.

by gumbercules on Jul 22, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is something everybody has failed to address.

What in the hell is TMZ doing covering college sports?

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Seriously

They probably have a guy assigned to nothing but what goes on at South Beach.

by BSD on Jul 22, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It reports on BS, but it’s very accurate at its particular brand of BS. More reliable than a radio station in Kansas City. Or a blogger in Austin.

It’s just unfortunate that some of the nation’s more competent journalists are spending their time asking Seth Rogen about bowel movements.

"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson

by EastLosRandy on Jul 24, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, I don't know.

While I don’t really have a problem with them following Roethlisberger to the scene of the next rape, following a bunch of college kids around seems really sleezy. Too sleezy. And I’m not sure that we’ll be able to ignore it.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 22, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I asked the same thing during the expansion stuff

Literally.

They should be covering Selena’s big birthday BBQ today. IDK what the hell is wrong with them

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops

link

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yesterday on tWWL

Sportsnation they noted that Tiger is no longer the world’s favorite athlete. He slipped to 2nd behind Kobe Bryant. I guess Kobe’s been away from Colorado long enough for him to look like a good guy again.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's more about Kobe vs. LeBron

People have had so much of it shoved down their throat that with LeBron’s huge douche show for “The Decision” people are jumping onto the Kobe bandwagon cuz he’s an actual winner.

Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh

Fugitweet

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on Jul 22, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aaah, sweet redemption for Kobias

It’s all coming full circle now. You want the NCAA to get in bed with the NFL, look at what the NBA has done for NCAA basketball.

by Frank O'Brien on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's done NOTHING.

Thad Matta has been a pipeline for NBA teams, though. Even the highly ineffective “Sixth Man” BJ Mullens made the jump.

Actually, the fact that Mullens was a first round pick makes me kind of mad. First of all, he WASN’T even NBA caliber, yet the Mavericks frafted him in the first round. They could have gotten more production out of Marcus Landry.

Yes, I am a shamless Wisconsin fan. Stop looking at me that way.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 25, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sportsnation?

Because a guy that leaves his wife and 1 year old daughter in a brutal divorce is the guy I want to ask which guy is the world’s favorite.

I guess this is the one time Colin knows what he’s talking about: Husbands that abandon their wives and children

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

How far down this road does Saban and the SEC want to go?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/07/nick-saban-alabama-agents/1

Nick Saban’s comparison of agents to pimps has drawn return fire from Ralph Cindrich, a respected agent for NFL players. And Cindrich says that if Alabama’s coach wants to go toe-to-toe he can make some accusations of his own.

“I don’t know that I would disagree with him about some agents as pimps, but all I know is there are coaches who would also fall in that category,” Cindrich tells the New York Times. “I would never tolerate nor permit Saban or any other coach to lump me in that category.”

And here comes the challenge:

“In terms of him throwing that out there, most agents know what goes on in college programs and what programs are clean or not. You want to find out who has the dirty programs, give immunity and go off the record with agents, and it would be like a cockfight, the last one standing wins. There are ways to determine the truth of allegations out there.”

by Run Up The Score on Jul 22, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

I like this idea

Let the agents announce it all. PSU vs Stanford for the national title

by buk110 on Jul 22, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me thinks Saban is throwing rocks in a class house.

He isn’t exactly the most ethically sound coach.

Also I look forward to his press conference after they suspend Dareus, Saban will probably claim it is another 9/11.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 22, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

This could get ugly, but good for us.

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

by psu on Jul 22, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could the NFL

water the whole game down and start up their own farm system – openly compete with the NCAA schools for recruits out of high school?

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe

But nobody liked the XFL, USFL, the WLAF, NFL Eurpope etc. Why? Because it’s considered second tier football.

The reason college football is popular is the College, not the Football. If that weren’t the case, I think you’d see other leagues succede where they universally fail.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another reason.

There has never been a Hayden Fry or a Mike Leach or a Steve Spurrier or a Tom Osborne who found success in the NFL. Any farm league would probably run the same offenses and defenses seen on the television on Sundays (although I admit there certainly could be some tinkering and innovation by some coaches).

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, NFL coaches never innovate.

Especially Don Coryell or Bill Walsh, I wish they would have thought outside the box and maybe used and popularized unorthodox offensive schemes.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 22, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know I'm not sure why you needed to get arrogant (like me).

Anyway, are you really going to tell me the NFL offense (and the NFL in general) doesn’t at least seem stale? Really?

And now, someone who knows much more about football than I: http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/nfl-offense-what-is-it-why-does-every.html

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 22, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there is a lot more opportunity to be innovative in college football.

But that doesn’t mean coaches can’t and/or don’t innovate in the NFL. I would also say that doesn’t have much to do with the popularity of either league.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 23, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's my point, which was apparently missed.

An NFL feeder league would most likely be teams running NFL offenses, NFL defenses, but with inferior talent..

Uh, great?

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 23, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously you're right.

You won’t be seeing any wishbone in the minor league NFL.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 23, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

true, it would be much less about winning and excitement

and much more about developing players for their teams. The coaches would have no incentive to actually do anything interesting.

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I buy that.

First off, the NCAA is the current feeder league and as you stated not all college teams run the same NFL offenses. Secondly, why would the ownership influence the coaching philosophy? I could easily argue that minor league football coaches would go out of their way to be creative. With less of significance put on actual wins and losses and more significance on the potential of impressing your next employer, the incentives might spark coaches to innovate.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 23, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

the NCAA isn't really a feeder league, though

sure, the NFL feeds off of the NCAA, but the NCAA doesn’t exist to place players in the NFL. With that in mind, the coaches coach in a way to win their particular games. If they were a feeder league, then the calls would come from up high, and I know if I was an NFL team, if my farm team was teaching all my players skills that wouldn’t translate to improving the major league team, I would quickly replace that minor league coach for someone who would.

You see it as “potential of impressing your next employer”, but I would gather most would see it as “the potential of keeping my job”

by The JuggerNitt on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I concur.

There is fire at the travel agency.

by ReadingRambler on Jul 23, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

It all depends on the ownership structure of the league and whether it is distributed or centralized. For example if every NFL owner is simply given a minor league team to control, then of course they can dictate how that team is run. But odds are that would not be the case. Instead the league would likely be centrally owned, like the NFL Europe, NBDL, MLS, XFL, WNBA, and most other “new” leagues. Instead of a team directly controlling all the moves of their minor league affiliate, they would have 1/32 control of the entire league. This setup is much more beneficial to a fledgling league and would likely be the ownership structure that any such football minor league would have.

On a side note, I guess you can define a “feeder league” however you want, but it doesn’t need to have a direct relationship between major and minor league teams. Just because baseball players can be sent down to an AAA affiliate doesn’t mean it is required in order to be considered a feeder league.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 23, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

There would still be affiliation agreements.

They would need to have a contract that says how and when you assign players, how many slots you have with which team etc. So the minor league team would be constantly working with the management of (probably multiple) NFL team(s).

Also, you are greatly discounting that the league would not only be molding prospective players, but prospective coaches. I don’t think coaches would be taken seriously by the NFL running the wishbone (or some non-NFL sanctioned offense), and so they would have a lesser chance of being hired by an NFL owner.

If you want to run an innovative offense, and want the potential to win and cash in on the innovation, then the place to do it is CFB (ask Urban Meyer, Paul Johnson, DickRod et. al. Do you see an NFL owner hiring those guys?).

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 23, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are assuming a baseball model in which the affiliations are team specific. The agreements could just as easily be one offs like is often the case in international soccer. When the LA Galaxy sent Landon Donavon to Everton or David Beckham to AC Milan, the teams had absolutely no affiliations. Yet they were able to negotiate terms in which the lower quality team (LA) was able to provide the higher quality teams with talent for a set amount of time.

The best setup would be to simply have teams designate a player for the minor leagues and then the minor leagues front offices decides where to assign him. That way you can a balanced league that wouldn’t require 32 individual teams.

I also don’t think owners overtly discourage unorthodox coaches. Steve Spurrier was hired in the NFL. Also I am sure there are several NFL owners who would immediately drop their coach if Urban Meyer wanted the job.

by VVeRPennState on Jul 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not trying to be offensive here,

but I don’t think professional soccer is analgous to the 4 major sports here. I am assuming the baseball, hockey, and basketball models.

Why would you throw all three out in favor of an international cooperation among sports leagues that isin’t a minor league system at all?

I find it hard to believe you would get investors in minor league football without an affiliation. Also, if the high schoolers felt it an appealing alternative (especially without a team affiliation), then why wouldn’t they try the CFL now?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 23, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that all of those NFL alternatives stunk...

but they were for the most part competing professional leagues, not instructional NFL feeder leagues competing with college football. They either had sub-par talent or rediculous rules to try to differentiate from the NFL.

College football would have a 100+ year headstart on the tradition, but there are an awful lot of talented players that don’t care or want to deal with the college hassle standing between them and the dollar bills of pro ball. League starts small with 6 or 8 teams so the talent level is high and before long College football isn’t what it is today.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

WLAF and NFL Europe (obviously)

were wholly owned subsideries of the NFL. Didn’t work.

What’s that league that started playing in the spring. I watched a few games, quality of play was solid. Attendence, well, attendence sucked pretty hard.

What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!

by jesse. on Jul 22, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

WLAF = NFL Europe

The one morphed into the other – same league restructured.

WLAF/NFLE focus seemed more about bringing American Football to the world and trying out rules gimmicks prior to NFL adoption than anything I was talking about. It also didn’t go after graduating High School talent. How many kids would take 100k or so to play in an instructional league and bypass college.

The NFL has no authority over college football. Period That’s why they would fire up their own alternative and take whatever financial risk is attached.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no authority over coca-cola

but I don’t go out and start my own soft drink company b/c I’m pretty happy with their product and would probably not make any money in the high-stakes world of carbonated beverages.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I prefer Pepsi,

but agree with your point. What high schoolers are leaving the exposure they get at Penn State or Texas for 100k in a league with no track record, and no guarantee to be around for the entire 3 years that the NFL requires you to be out of high school?

If they so desire, they can go play in the CFL, can they not?

by PSUinBOSSton on Jul 22, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yet there are plenty of others

willing to do so. The guy who started VitaminWater didn’t make out too bad (selling to Coca Cola for $4 billion).

There’s plenty of high schoolers out there. There just needs to be 300 willing guys who would prefer to start making money now – and maybe jump start their dad’s rap career.

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

why in the world would the NFL invest in starting a new feeder league

when a feeder league (the NCAA) already exists? The existing feeder league provides the NFL with well-known, ready-to-be-marketed players and they have essentially zero financial risk in the arrangement.

Furthermore, pretty much everybody who went to college—which is most of the people with money in the country—that enjoys the NFL also enjoys college football. Why would they risk alienating their well-heeled fans to make an investment that, as jesse. points out, seems likely to fail given how other ‘minor’ leagues have fared?

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Jul 22, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This. The NFL wouldn’t start a developmental league because they have a high calibre one that exists for free. They have no incentive to create any competition for the NCAA.

by Laaaaazzz on Jul 23, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who knows...

Ego. Becasue they can. Becasue the NFL owners think they can do a better job of developing talent than the NCAA can.

I only have one request if this ever happens. I want Al Davis in charge!!

One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's

by rahpsu92 on Jul 23, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find your lack of faith disturbing. :P
We’re supposed to believe that Dareus flew all the way to Miami to see his good buddy Austin not knowing where he got the money to pay for the plane ticket…If he had the money to pay Austin for the plane ticket, why didn’t he just buy a plane ticket?
-BSD

Okay, first off if Dareus was planing on paying him back (which he supposedly did) then why would he worry about where Austin got the money from? A plane ticket isn’t a beer, but it isn’t a car either. It’s fairly easy to put it on a credit card. Your hindsight is making you overly skeptical IMO. It’s easier to say he should have known if you already know.

As for why he had Austin get the ticket in the first place, there are a number of explanations. Maybe Dareus didn’t have access to a computer with internet while he was at home with his sick mother. Maybe he wasn’t very familiar with the process of buying a plane ticket. It can be intimidating if you’ve never done it before and have no idea what you’re doing. Maybe the airline didn’t accept American Express. Maybe Austin just offered to do it, and Dareus agreed because he was already overwhelmed and exhausted from having to deal with his mom dying. My mom died of breast cancer earlier that same month, and I can tell you that I wasn’t necessarily energetic or functioning at 100% mentally during that ordeal.

And we’re supposed to believe that once he got to this party with his buddy Austin he reimbursed him for the air fare, asked for a receipt, and flew home?

He flew home when he found out his mother had died. He supposedly left the party when he found out there were agents there. The players are taught to get receipts. Whether that was the plan all along, or Dareus decided he needed to do it after he realized that there might be some trouble, I can’t say for sure.

We’re supposed to believe that Dareus flew all the way to Miami not knowing who was going to be at the party?

How would he know unless Austin told him exactly what was going on? There’s a lot to do at the beach. We don’t even know if Austin told Dareus about any parties that he was planning on going to, much less the identity of everyone who would be at said party. I highly doubt Austin said, “hey, come down to miami my agent’s throwing a big bash”. Well, you may think that. Going to a party is not a violation, you just can’t accept benefits.

You guys should man up and say if this stuff is happening in or around your program, you want the players who take part in it gone. Don’t blame the agents. The kids have to make the decision to ultimately take the money. So far all I see from Alabama fans is excuses.

FYI, that was the response of many, myself included. You can go back and look at RBR and you’ll see that it’s true. But that’s IF he’s guilty, and I’m starting to think that is not the case. We aren’t going to throw innocent players under the bus. Kids who take money are responsible for their actions, but the details of this incident seem to indicate a case of entrapment. It seems that you have a player or two at UNC that sold out to an agent, and the agent put him up in South Beach to lure in other players.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 24, 2010 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not sure 'entrapment' is the word you want

I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve always understood entrapment as having a person of authority trick you into doing something you wouldn’t do for the purpose of then nailing you with a penalty or punishment.

In this case I believe entrapment would be something along the lines of the NCAA setting up and luring players to this agent’s party for the sole purpose of then busting them and launching an investigation into the conduct of the school/player.

by dawsonPSU10 on Jul 24, 2010 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, I’m not using it in the legal sense.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 24, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

she had a pretty drawn out ordeal, and the kid needed a break.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 24, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

The problem, though,

rests with Saban. Say what you will about any part of it, but ultimately, the correct response here is, “I’m taking care of the situation.” When our guys got in trouble for a fight, JoePa took the situation into his own hands and disciplined his football players. When Dan Connor and co. made idiotic prank phone calls, Joe Paterno took the situation into his own hands, and suspended them. I’m sorry that Penn State falls on the second game of your schedule, and not Youngstown State, but the right call here is, “You need to sit until we can be SURE that you haven’t done anything wrong.”

If he’s absolved before our game, fine, let him play. I’d much rather win or lose with him in the game. But I don’t want to win by forfeit, and Alabama doesn’t want to lose by forfeit either.

We live in a society where no one takes the blame for anything, where consequences don’t play into the equation. Knock a girl up? She can just get an abortion. Marry an abusive guy? You can just get a divorce. Take gifts from agents? You can just have your head football coach blame the agent for your own carelessness. Have a player who took a gift from an agent? You can just blame the agent.

I’m sorry that the kid is going through such a tough time, and it’s not fair… it really isn’t at all. But when the rubber hits the road, sometimes bad decisions happen, for whatever reason, and sometimes you need to deal with the consequences. EVERY guy who has ever stepped a toe out of line at Penn State has learned that. Jay Alford, after flipping his way into the end zone got such a verbal lashing from Paterno, and got to sit down on the sideline. Unfortunately, some coaches can look at a guy who eye gouges another player and say “Hey, that’s out of line. You’re out for an entire HALF next game.”

Trust me, for the sake of Alabama, and the sake of the NCAA, even though it may not be fair, Saban needs to go the route of Paterno, not Meyer.

John has a long moustache

by AdamShell on Jul 25, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Where did you hear that that wasn’t the case? UA compliance is investigating what happened. If he did anything wrong, he will sit out accordingly. Last year we had a guy get suspended for 4 games by the NCAA for accepting a laptop. Saban added 2 games to that suspension.

Take gifts from agents? You can just have your head football coach blame the agent for your own carelessness. Have a player who took a gift from an agent? You can just blame the agent.

This is 100% wrong. Yes Saban is putting blame on the agents, but not to give absolution to dirty players. But the sleazy agents are getting out of hand. When one dirtbag is potentially causing trouble for up to 40 players at a bunch of different schools and according to LSU’s Patrick Peterson he is getting approached about 3 times a week by runners offering handouts… well what do you expect SEC coaches to say? Just punishing players is like treating the symptoms instead of the disease.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 25, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you're going to let agents on your campus at all (which I know he may no longer do)

then the responsibility falls on the coach, not the agents. If I was responsible for someone, and I said “There are known drug dealers in this neighborhood, and if you take anything from them, you’re in big trouble.” and the kid takes drugs from them, I can’t go on national television and say “THOSE BLASTED DRUG DEALERS!!!”

John has a long moustache

by AdamShell on Jul 25, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is, simply put, an ignorant statement. The idea that Alabama’s Agent Education Program is part of the problem is utterly laughable. There are no legitimate, respected drug dealers (well, maybe where it’s legal you do, but not on the illegal side). There are respectable sports agents, and the university is absolutely right to have a program set up to educate players and help them find the right representation.

This is like blaming sex education for a kid getting knocked up, as if having sex would never cross their mind if they didn’t have a class to educate them about it.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 25, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dealers are going to deal

and agents are going to try to lure kids. That’s why they’re agents. To think anything else is laughable. It’s up to the coaches and the players to keep kids safe, and if they can’t do that, they have to deal with the consequences.

My favorite Penn State football player of the 90s, Curtis Enis, got in trouble for taking a suit from an agent… he had to leave Penn State and skip our bowl game. It wasn’t the agent’s fault. it was Enis’s.

John has a long moustache

by AdamShell on Jul 25, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

and to use your analogy

The kids get educated about sex, and then they go have sex anyway… safe sex, whatever. If the kid gets an STD, or gets a girl pregnant, you can blame the carrier, or the mother, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the kid and whoever’s responsible for the kid.

So, kids get educated about agents, then they go deal with agents. They think they’re dealing responsibly, but he ends up getting screwed. You can blame the agent for acting like a sleaze, but it’s still the kid’s responsibility. And Saban’s responsible for the kid. Period.

At Penn State, we have had a lot of trouble lately with the law… some of it was trumped up and our kids exonerated. Some of it wasn’t, and so Joe Paterno went to the non-football players and said “You’re horrible people, how DARE you let my football player get involved with you….” Wait. Sounds funny doesn’t it? That’s not what happened. Joe said to the players, “If you’re gonna keep acting like that, you’re gone. Since you’ve acted like that already, you’ve gotta sit,” and he took care of it.

John has a long moustache

by AdamShell on Jul 25, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

First off, I think your generalizations about agents is inaccurate. Trying to isolate the players from even reputable agents is not going to do one ounce of good. An LSU player was quoted recently as saying he is offered stuff by runners about 3 times a week on average. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and hope for the best.

but ultimately the responsibility lies with the kid and whoever’s responsible for the kid.

You’re oversimplifying things and lumping things together that shouldn’t be. The university does have responsibilities. Those are to

1. educate the players about the rules.
2. foster an environment that helps keep the players safe.
3. monitor the compliance of the players to the best of their ability.

If a university does those things and a player still violates the rules, then the university is not accountable. So simply stating that the university is responsible for a player that violates ncaa rules is not accurate, depending on the circumstances.

I don’t understand why you want to absolve the agents of any responsibility. I don’t know if all you’ve seen is just the headlines or something, but this is what Saban actually said at SEC media days.

I think I would like to say there are probably three areas of responsibility here. A, we all as institutions have a responsibility to educate our players to make good choices and decisions about what they do. We have an outstanding agent education program. Joe Mendes, who has been in the NFL for years, interviews our players, makes booklets, actually has home visits with their families to try to educate them on the things that they can and can’t do relative to agents.
I think that the players have a responsibility to make good choices and decisions about what they do with the agents. I also think the NFL Players Association has a responsibility to monitor and control what agents do.
I think if an agent does anything to affect the eligibility of a college football player, his license ought to be suspended for a year. That’s the only way we’re going to stop what’s happening out there because it’s ridiculous and it’s entrapment of young people at a very difficult time in their life. And it’s very difficult for the institutions and NCAA to control it and it’s very unfair to college football.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 25, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

but I still put the vast majority of the responsibility on the player himself. Like I said with Enis, it was his fault.

John has a long moustache

by AdamShell on Jul 25, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 25, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

and clean the stadium

Lot’s of people thought that was funny, but it made a real statement

Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF

by letsgopsu on Jul 25, 2010 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its odd what Saban is threatening. If agents and scouts have easy access to players this is going to happen. Every school has the ability to make situations like this harder to occur. People complain that Joe doesn’t give access to scouts and agents at PSU and this hurts their draft stock but what he is doing is doing his best in monitoring his student athletes. I have no sympathy for a school that makes the locker room and practice open season for the scummy agents because along with the good agents you will get the corrupt ones. Any school or fan base that bitches about agents having access need only look at the policies that their coaches have pertaining to player/agent access.

From what I’ve heard Alabama doesn’t open up the locker room to “scummy agents”. It’s not a free for all like what you might have heard about USC. What Alabama does is bring in legit agents so that they can have meetings with players in a professional manner. They do this so that the players hopefully take a righteous path instead of forcing them to go out on their own and swim with all the sharks.

What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.

-Hank Hill

by Zoltar on Jul 24, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions  

2 thoughts:

1. TMZ? Great source of NEWS???!!!

2. Don’t get to smug, every program in the country is one piece-of-crap poor kid/recruit away from the same situation.

by DagoT on Jul 24, 2010 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

thats why we value success with honor

by tlrpsu on Jul 24, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

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Authors

Iron_armor_small Galen

New4_good_small Nick Blonde

Turd_ferguson_psu_small Tim Aydin

6a00d8341c630a53ef0105369fb7ee970b-800wi_small whiteout1

On_the_way_to_grad_small Kyle_Martin

N53100510_31463067_5584_small Adam Collyer

Aquateen_vol1_mastershake_1__small Ben Jones

Penn_state_mascot_small Peter Gray

Baller_small Eric Gibson

Small kmplatt