Big Ten Media Days Recap - Day One
by BSD on Aug 2, 2010 8:01 PM EDT
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I did a lot of traveling today, and tomorrow isn't looking much better, so sorry if these media day updates aren't exactly timely. Here are some of the highlights from day one.
To nobody's surprise, except for maybe 2009 Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year John Clay, Terrelle Pryor has once again taken home the preseason Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year. Eleven Warriors did the preemptive "watch Penn State fans whine about this" post, but c'mon. The guy didn't even make second team All-Big Ten in 2009. The coaches didn't even give him honorable mention. I guess John Clay is chopped liver or something. All he did was, you know, win Big Ten offensive player of the year last year. At what point is Terrelle Pryor going to live up to his hype and actually, like, win something on the field? And no, beating Oregon in the Rose Bowl does not count.
And no surprise here, but Penn State was not picked to finish in the top three of the Big Ten this year. These preseason awards are pretty silly, but they make good bulletin board material for the players. Nobody picked Penn State to finish in the top three in 2005 or 2008 either.
Here is the video of Joe's press conference.
Nothing really earth shattering there. As usual, nobody wanted to ask Joe about the team this year. They just wanted to ask about his health, age, and how long he's going to coach. How come nobody asked Ron Zook how he relates to kids 30 years younger than him? Only Joe gets these silly questions.
But Paterno handled it all with his usual grumpiness mixed with a little charm. For those of you at work, you can read the transcript here. But you really don't get the same effect with the laughter coming from the PSU beat writers at all of the wasted questions.
David Jones was there, and he thinks Joe does not look very good these days. There may be some truth to that. He seems like his speech is a little bit more slurred than usual. But then the guy is almost 85 years old now. From my experience with people that age, there are good days and bad days. Maybe things are worse than Joe lets on, but he thinks he can still coach. Who are we to question that? Go for it, dude.
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Haha. I was just going to post that.
“Dear Joe, I love you. Are you going to die?”
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 2, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no
It was “When are you going to die?”
Like it was a courtesy. Please let us know so we can start working on columns about the new coach.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 2, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't hear her name
But I know it was the same stupid reporter from USA Today who asked Kirk Ferentz if Iowa would be interested in a rivalry with Nebraska. Yeah, pretty sure that publication either just got a new CFB reporter or they should start looking for one.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
My thoughts exactly
I found it incredibly rude on her part. Maybe it was just poor phrasing, but how do you get off bringing up someone’s death like that?
It was an awful question. It was clearly some young pup trying to make a name for herself. All the BS about ’I’ve followed your career for ever’ – JoePa doesn’t need journos to kiss his butt like that. Yugh. Makes us journos look like we are pathetic morons.
Yeah, because all the brilliant journos haven't been asking variations of this same question for years.
Looks like Joe won’t have hear the retirement question anymore.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 3, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, why ask about the team when the coach is a greater concern?
Media schmedia. Ask about the players instead. Who’s going to start on the other side of Zug? Will the primary formation of the year have two tight ends and a fullback? Will Evan Royster see 250+ carries this season?
Those are the questions that have to be asked.
Oh, there’s another important one in there: Did JoePa remember to turn off injuries in Dynasty mode?
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 2, 2010 8:29 PM EDT reply actions
Those are the easy ones
Moye, no, no, probably not but he won’t tell you.
I’d like to hear his thoughts on the quarterbacks – not who will start, but what strengths and weaknesses he’s seen. What about Still? Is he as good as the media’s made him out to be?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
great set of questions...
So, what about the FOOTBALL TEAM??
I hope the media gets this shizzle out of their system before the season starts.
hahaha, silly rju103
you underestimate the media, lol.
Joe could run out of the tunnel in a dead sprint and beat Devon Smith to the sideline and the first question in the post game presser would STILL be, “How are you feeling?” or some other health related question.
dawson...
I know, I don’t actually expect them to drop the subject.
You know that if and when PSU loses its first game, the questions about being “out of touch” with the players and just being “too old” will resurface.
Mike, since you linked to that 11W article, I assume you read it.
I will not read it, because I’ve probably read it before: Penn State whiny, irrelevant, fans somehow make urine balloons, also they started World War 1. But are irrelevant. Pryor awesome, except for when we’re making fun of him on our own blog.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
Pryor is NOT the Big Ten's golden child.
He IS Ohio State’s.
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 2, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Red x, but to answer your question, probably.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow... reading over the transcript,
Joe doesn’t leave much doubt about what the problem was this summer. To recap:
“It was a little bit below the intestines.”
“I had, as I said, the problem I had was not having control of some things, and I had to be careful that I didn’t get myself in a position where I would embarrass myself. "
“I couldn’t make as many public appearances as I’ve had, because of the fact that I could be standing up here and all of a sudden have to leave.”
So, bottom line: he was in danger of pooping himself. That seems to be a perfectly good reason to cancel social events where he was going to be the main attraction. It also seems like the sort of problem that doesn’t (and won’t) diminish his coaching ability. If this problem persists, we might see Joe back in the press box, for obvious reasons. But if that’s the worst health concern that Joe has right now, I think he’ll be just fine.
That being said, he did sound a little weak and a little out of it today. Is that cause for concern? Not on its own, certainly. But I’m hoping that when I turn on the Youngstown State pre-game press conference, he sounds more like his old self.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 2, 2010 8:49 PM EDT reply actions
another reason he looks frail
has anybody recently had the poops? last time i checked when you arent sure when youre gonna hafta sprint to the bathroom it takes a TON out of you. im 26 years old and the last time that hit me it took me a week or so to feel back to normal. were talkin about an 85 year old man, so picture your grandpa with a case of the runs that lasted like a month. im pretty sure itd take him awhile to get back. joe will be his normal fiesty italian self come sept
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
I had the poops 2 weeks ago...
I passed out twice. I mean face-plant into a bunch of boxes, because I had to walk 10 feet from the bathroom to the couch. I am still tired, my stomach is still making noises, and I am still on medication. I am 36 and workout daily.
Talking about my experience should prove how classy we Penn State fans are.
"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano key necktie, I invented it!" - Mugatu
by Captain Hairdo on Aug 4, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I've decided the reason Joe looks "bad"
Is because we’ve never seen his eyes at the proper size. His lenses no longer magnify, people. He looks weird with regular-sized eyes. That’s it.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Aug 2, 2010 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I said this in the David Jones thread in the Fanposts, and I completely agree
His face looks extremely thin because he doesn’t have two gigantically magnified eyes staring out of his glasses now. We can for the first time see the sides of his face through his glasses and it gives him a very thin appearance and not what we’re used to seeing (for 45 years, lol!), which in JoePa Land equals OMG HE’S ON HIS DEATHBED! HE CAN’T COACH ANYMORE! WHO IS THE SUCCESSOR? WHY ISN’T HE STEPPING DOWN, HE’S HURTING RECRUITING! FIRE JAY! (just for old times sake)
Yeah.
I didn’t see your post, but it struck me. Scout’s Penn State page has a perfect picture that brings JoePa into focus (get it? glasses joke?)
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I thought this when they showed the photos of him right after the surgery. He looks even stranger with no glasses at all, God bless him for wearing the fakes
Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF
I may be wrong, but I thought he still had some need for glasses
he could go without them, but he still could wear them (even he said it was weird not having them on, he kept rubbing his nose where the bridge of the glasses would be), but I thought he still needed them, just a SEVERELY decreased prescription.
nope, he is 20/20
it is just glass in them glasses
Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF
Even if he doesn’t need glasses for distance, he would still need glasses for reading. It’s possible those are bifocals, but the top part is just plain glass and only the bottom has a prescription.
Actually I just watched Joe Schad's interview with him that Jay linked to on Facebook
He took his glasses off and said, “I don’t even need these anymore, but the Doctors said, keep them on to protect your eyes.”
So that makes sense, He’s still going to wear the glasses not really out of force of habit, but just as UV protection.
more than UV protection too
when you’ve been wearing glasses for a long time (18 years for me) when you take your glasses off, even the wind hitting your eye is really irritating… it’s a physically protective layer as well.
John has a long moustache
He came out and said he didn't need them
But after so long, its a force of habit to reach out and put them on.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Yeah, it struck me as unnatural when he would look over the glasses at during the conference
We’ll have to get used to it.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 3, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
"And no, beating Oregon in the Rose Bowl does not count."
If beating a top-10 opponent for the Big Ten’s first Rose Bowl victory in nearly a decade “doesn’t count”, I’d like to know what does. Ohio State certainly won’t face another team the caliber of that Oregon team in the Big Ten this season, so you’ve basically redefined “winning something on the field” (two Big Ten titles under his belt, by the way) to such a degree that any success short of beating Alabama will be considered a disappointment.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
by Sam @ WWAHT on Aug 2, 2010 9:37 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Well....
If you don’t like reading about how Penn State fans from a Penn State blog don’t buy into the Ohio State-Pryor hype, then I guess you shouldn’t be over here, huh?
You guys can go back to talking about that highly relevant, intriguing game against Michigan, which will no doubt decide the B10, the MNC and the fate of the universe, as always.
by Artiefufkin10 on Aug 2, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice ad hominem
So I guess you don’t have an explanation for that phenomenally stupid line? Got it.
Oh and go back to talking about the “Land Grant Trophy”. Talk about relevant.
Trust me buddy, we are far from claiming the Land Grant Trophy as relevant
It’s about equal in relevance to what tOSU-UM has become though…
lol okay
you keep pretending Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska and whoever else is your big rival and we’ll keep being voted the best rivalry in college football .
No one cares.
Is this how far you’ve fallen? Bragging about the superiority of your rivalry which you haven’t won in however many years?
No one cares.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Who’s bragging? It was one of your moronic fans who brought up the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry as part of a hilarious ad hominem attack on Sam’s totally valid post.
Oh, ok.
and we’ll keep being voted the best rivalry in college football .
Not bragging, just stupid.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, what's Michigan's record vs Ohio State recently?
That’s a rivalry if I’ve ever seen one. You can’t even admit when you’re “best rivalry in college football” has faded into irrelevance. We used to have a huge rivalry with Pitt, and although some of us would like to see it back, the majority accept the fact that the rivalry is no more.
Wait, did you respond to an ad hominem with another one?
Then again, I didn’t go to UM or PSU so I am no genius.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I reply with a Hominy Ad
"I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano key necktie, I invented it!" - Mugatu
by Captain Hairdo on Aug 4, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ad hominem?
I wasn’t trying to belittle what he said because he was an OSU fan. Just saying he shouldn’t be upset that we don’t agree when we’ve had a QB for 2 years who was statistically better and didn’t receive nearly any of the hype, but rather exceeded expectations. Yeah, I’m talking about Clark.
What was so valid about that dude’s post anyway? Its clearly his opinion, which was in retort of Mike’s original post, which was also pure opinion.
by Artiefufkin10 on Aug 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
So, Penn State blogger writes about Ohio State, Ohio State blogger arrives to respond, Penn State commenter runs with “don’t come to X blog if you’re not here to talk about X” gambit. So who’s allowed to comment on this? Penn State fans only? This is a forum, homeslice, and if someone as intelligent as Sam disagrees, you’d be wise not to dismiss it as petty homerism.
Don't celebration when you score goal
This is what Mike does.
He picks the fight, goes and does whatever it is he does, and we have to fight with whatever shark swims up.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh.
I prefer “Tacopants”
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
For what it's worth
I completely disagree with Fufkin. You guys are free to argue your opinions here.
So Pryor singlehandely won the Rose Bowl? I believe that was Mike's point to counter the Pryor hype.
It was a great accomplishment for Ohio State (and after two embarrassments in National Championship games where you guys single-handedly destroyed the image and credibility of the rest of the conference and created the demon-child that is this ridiculous SEC SPEEEEEED argument, then lost another BCS game to boot, we really needed our “leader” of the conference to step up in a high profile game for once).
And are we still going to cling to the “two big ten championships” BS? Yeah, yeah, I know we’re technically “co-champions” who just happened to beat you two years head to head, but be realistic and don’t claim Pryor gets to count a co-championship with a head to head loss to us in 2008. You know who the better team was that year, no matter how many “OMG 5 TIME BIG TEN CHAMPS” t-shirts the tOSU Athletic Department pumps out. And again, I’ll point out, it wasn’t Pryor alone that lead tOSU to the RB this year by himself, which again, was what I believe was Mike’s point. A few decent games he’s played and for the second year in a row he’s the B10 pre-season player of the year (not to mention for the second year in a row, getting Heisman buzz) which to people with rational thinking skills, seems completely unwarranted based on mediocre previous performances, or is based solely on his Rose Bowl performance against an Oregon team who was 35th in total defense in 2009.
PS. Welcome back! It’s good to have a non-tOSU troll who is fairly rational come and post here. Sorry for the harshness of this post!
Again: He won a freaking BCS bowl. Why doesn’t that count? It makes no effing sense whatsoever.
Dear lord, I’m a Michigan fan and I’m defending Pryor. That should tell you something about the absurdity of the comment.
Michael Robinson was better than Pryor
and got none of the credit. Pryor has done nothing to prove that he’s any good… he’s just done enough to not suck.
John has a long moustache
by AdamShell on Aug 2, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
According to stats
Those are pretty indicative. Someone – don’t remember if it was here or another SBN blog – did a comparison, and Pryor was not statistically distinguishable from Clark, Stanzi, Chappel or whatever his name is, and one other Big Ten quarterback. With all the talent TP has around him, on the line, in the WR corp, etc., he should be blowing those guys out of the water. Yet, he was clearly inferior to Clark and no better than several lower-tier QBs, and he gets Heisman hype? That’s pathetic.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Your argument starts to fall apart...
…when you try to mention the OSU offensive line as being good. They were horrible by any measure.
Michael Robinson had 17 touchdowns, 10 interceptions and completed 52 percent of his passes
You cannot be serious.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
I can't?
I just did. Given Robinson’s career stat line of 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions, to Pryor’s 30 and 16, I feel pretty vindicated.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Robinson also didn't practice solely at QB
but played RB, WR, returner, etc.
Why don’t we look at it this way:
Robinson’s ONE YEAR stats – the one where he was practicing exclusively as a QB:
162/311 52.1% 2350 yds 17 TD 10 picks 127.17 rating
163 carries 806 yds 11 TD
Pryor’s ONE YEAR (I’ll put both for argument’s sake):
100/166 60.2% 1311 yds 12 TD 4 picks 145.62 rating
139 carries 631 yds 6 tds.
166/294 56.5% 2087 yds 18 TD 11 picks 128.81 rating
162 carries 779 yds 7 TDs
I included both of Pryor’s years because I wanted to avoid the “he hadn’t been in the system for as long as M-Rob had” argument. M-Rob played one year at QB before 2005, and he only attempted 30-some passes, so the “system” argument is bogus.
Looking at TPs FIRST year as a starter, you see he looks decent. I didn’t include the fumbles and such because I couldn’t find em, but his hamstrung offense stats are belied by the fact that jaOSU was throwing VERY specially tailored “you’re probably too effing dumb to run an offense” passes. He did well with these.
Looking at his second year, when Tressel took the training wheels off and Pryor ran a complete offense (just like M-Rob), Pryor’s stats are comparable to M-Rob’s in every way, except nowhere near the yardage or scoring. So… Yeah, M-Rob was better because, with the approximately the same number of attempts, nearly the same completion percentage, etc., M-Rob SMOKED Pryor in yardage and scoring. He also had a better YPC average, so he was getting more yards on the ground, too. Ouch.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Aug 3, 2010 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, you’ve just thoroughly lost.
At what point is Terrelle Pryor going to live up to his hype and actually, like, win something on the field? And no, beating Oregon in the Rose Bowl does not count.
hence the BCS bowl comments.
I would've liked to see Ohio State play LSU... I'm fairly certain they would have lost
John has a long moustache
That's awesome, brah
Unfortunately, Ohio State played Oregon, a team that actually won its conference rather than one that lost to Ole Miss
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Great. Good for you guys, I'm glad you didn't drop the ball
you beat a team that the top 5 teams in the Big Ten would have beaten. Great.
John has a long moustache
by AdamShell on Aug 2, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
(25) Wisconsin 20
(15) Miami (FL) 14
Miami beat a top 10 team… Wisconsin was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the Big Ten… they certainly would have taken Oregon
John has a long moustache
Oh man... wow, finally I can tell you're not being serious
We were a top 10 BCS team last year, so I know you don’t think that Wisky was better than us last year
John has a long moustache
Well, I'm not sure I agree with Shell.
But…Cincy was in the BCS last year. Cincy.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Cincy played in the Big East. Cincy’s best win was against a Pitt team whose best win was, like, North Carolina?
Iowa, OSU, PSU, and Wiscy all would have won that league.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
UM probably would have gone 9-3 in the Big East.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW
an OSU fan talking about “someone else won a BCS conference. You didn’t.” Dude… get a fucking clue. TOTAL FIVEPEAT! Pathetic that your fan base (yeah, you and OSU have a cute little lovefest we all know about) is so ignorant/arrogant that you can’t acknowledge that there are other good teams in your conference. All of us here are capable of acknowledging that OSU is good, and that Michigan used to be. Maybe you guys should take off your scarlet-maize-grey-blue glasses and look around.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
And we were being considered for the Fiesta Bowl, but the Orange bowl took Iowa first
and deservedly so
John has a long moustache
You wouldn't have played anyway
You lost to the two best teams on your schedule.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Its sad that you can't grasp what he means by BCS team
Look up conferences, brah.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Right, because those top 5 teams in the Big Ten is perfectly capable of beating top-10 OOC teams
Just look at their record the last five years
www.weoncehadtempe.com
You're right
Ohio State is usually unreliable to beat good bowl teams. Which makes me think Oregon was a bad one
John has a long moustache
Dude
Dude?
Can you read?
I just said “top 5 teams in the Big Ten”
I don’t think a B10 team has beaten a top-10 OOC foe in the last five years. Let me know if I’m wrong.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Oh, they squeaked that one in there.
Good on Iowa. Shame PSU can’t beat them either.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
OMG WITH THE AD HOMINEM
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I probably don't!
I also don’t care!
I guess non sequitur would be better, but again, I didn’t go to Michigan, OSU, or PSU!
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't have to apologize for anything.
I’m just not sure how this translates into OMG NORTHWESTERN COULD STAY WITHIN 10 POINTS OF IOWA
www.weoncehadtempe.com
But... of course Northwestern could stay within 10 points of Iowa
they BEAT Iowa
John has a long moustache
Well Northwestern and Wisconsin both beat top 10 teams last year
so I think they could’ve stayed within 10 of Oregon
John has a long moustache
What evidence do you have for that?
Aside from the same old transitive rigamarole?
www.weoncehadtempe.com
I'm not sure what you're looking for...
would you like me to write a computer simulation or something?
John has a long moustache
I'd like for you to justify your claims
with something other than “WELL TEAM X BEAT TEAM Y SO CLEARLY TEAM X COULD BEAT TEAM Z”
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Well I don't know how else to justify them
Oregon got slaughtered by Boise State, the whole Pac-10 was vastly overrated last year, and Oregon just landed on top of the pile of dead beaten bodies that was the Pac 10
John has a long moustache
Sam
This is an internet urine balloon contest. What we do tonight will be forgotten by millions.
You think (Or at least I think you think, because you haven’t actually said anything about this hooray for assuming!) Pryor should be preseason POTY when Clay was better last year and plays on a less talented team, I think Mikey Robinson cures cancer with his touch, Michigan fans like to say brah and show up with OSU fans at the same time for some reason, I can’t tell what Shell is talking about, but I love him anyway.
NO ONE IS RIGHT HERE I SHOULD GO TO BED.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously... tell me what you want
you tell me why OSU would have beaten LSU and I will use your argument as a model to show you why PSU would have beaten Oregon.
John has a long moustache
I don't need to
because I wasn’t the one constructing entire arguments out of woulda-coulda-shoulda shifted goalposts and the transitive property
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Wanna know who the Pac-10's best bowl win by record was last year?
Temple
TEMPLE
John has a long moustache
You did beat us last year
did someone on here say we didn’t?
In fact I don’t think anyone on here has argued that we were a better team than OSU last year, just that Pryor is undeserving of the hype he gets and is getting (at least so far, until he proves otherwise), and that Oregon could have been beaten by the top teams in the B10 conference.
not originally, no. But AdamShell and ReadingRambler have fallen down a spiralling hole of shifted goalposts, off topic arguments, and the like, that what anyone is saying at this point is so far adrift from the original point…it’s just e-slapping.
http://www.wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Right
We’re the only ones doing that. Sure.
I am truly curious about one thing: why is Sam the only Ohio State fan defending Pryor here?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
hellz no
unless one of the other guys links it
I sorta hope they don’t, because this argument is dead
www.weoncehadtempe.com
They'll find a way here
Check this thread in 36 to 48 hours, if this post has 400+ comments, you can bet your ass they’ve emerged from the depths of crazy town, lol.
You've only posted twice in this thread.
You haven’t started arguing with anyone yet, you can leave whenever you like unlike yours truly who is bound by internet codes and boredom.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you wear a tiny moustache
and call for the extermination of entire ethnic groups and minorities? Then I don’t think you’re a nazi, we wouldn’t sink that low…
I'm glad all the classics came out
Transitive win property
“Proving something”
“Unsubstantiated statement: PROVE ME WRONG!”
I have said this before, if you took the two returning BCS MVP’s and had them as O MVP and D MVP, I’m not sure how you could argue it. I think John Clay is a great player but if Pryor can go to CR and beat them again, the award should be his to lose. Best player on the best team…that isn’t a wild speculation. If you folks want to get pissed about that stipulation for awarding said MVP, well, that’s a different argument.
As for Pryor needing to win “something”, I would venture to say most of you PSU guys would kill a dozen transients to have Newsome do what Pryor has done in his first two years. Last second loss to UT as a freshman and winning the RB MVP as a tSph. God, when will the kid show up!?!
You're right.
We could kill to have Pryor’s supporting talent.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone does
John has a long moustache
by AdamShell on Aug 3, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So now OSU is a vastly superior
team in overall talent? Boy, could have fooled me with all the great rants from this past year’s pre-game posts.
Just curious btw, in the PSU fan mind…. Pryor will need to what, lead the B11 in rushing, passing and TD’s to live up to the hype?
by Onestatewest on Aug 3, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
No, it's not Pryor's fault you guys got an easy bowl opponent
What really hurts Pryor’s image is that Tressel doesn’t even seem to think he’s that good. If he’s as good as you say he is, he should be allowed to throw more against good defenses. The fact is, though, when the going gets tough, Tressel says “Defense first, run second, pass only if absolutely necessary” because he doesn’t have a QB who he trusts to lead his team.
Joe does the same thing… but Clark proved himself last year… even Pat Devlin proved himself the year before that… that they could actually lead the offense to a win. Pryor’s just along for the ride.
John has a long moustache
In my mind, Pryor will have to be better than John Clay.
And he will have to clearly be a great quarterback. That’s what the hype has said about him.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
With all the hype..
that has surronded him, Tebow’s resume is about what is needed.
Never mistake effort for achievement.
Ah, beer, my one weakness. My Achille's heel, if you will. - HJS
by Esteban d' Amur on Aug 3, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if I want Newsome playing WR, though
“last second loss to UT as a freshman”
but perhaps if PJ or Bolden really do prove they are better, WR could be a real nice fit for Newsome.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What is with the brah crap from you guys here?
You sound like DevonPSU.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of things are being thrown around here, but for all of the criticism you may have for Pryor, “he hasn’t won anything on the field” can’t be one. Cannot be.
2 Big Ten titles, highest conference winning percentage as a starter, 2-0 vs. Mich, and a BCS win are just about everything you could want short of a MNC.
Did he carry mediocre teams (or even just mediocre offenses) on his back? I’d say no. But his teams have won, and pretty big.
The argument isn't that Ohio State hasn't won anything on the field
They have. The argument is that Pryor isn’t any better than say… Mike Kafka. Kafka was a pretty good quarterback, but not a great quarterback. If Pryor played at Northwestern, I’d expect them to have pretty similar careers. But Pryor doesn’t make his team better, he just plays well enough to allow his defense and special teams to win the game. There’s a reason Tressel decides on running plays 2/3 of the time against good defenses.
John has a long moustache
by AdamShell on Aug 3, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Won 2 Big Ten titles? 2009, and when else?
The last time I checked, Penn State was 2008 Big Ten champs. I’m going to pose a question, and any Buckeye fan may answer and let’s get it on:
How in the hell do you have the gall to claim league titles, or co-titles, in 2005 and 2008 when Penn State and Ohio State finished with identical league records, but you lost head-to-head to Penn State in both of those years? Are you people that arrogant that you think a title is your birthright, or do you have such an inferiority complex against Michigan that you’ll claim any titles you can to try to keep pace with your hated rivals? If that’s the case, it’s pathetic, pitiful, and sad. It’s like giving a participation trophy to a little kid to make him feel like he was special, even though he or his team sucked. If the roles are ever reversed, you won’t ever hear me crying “Co-champs” if we lose a head-to-head matchup. What a pitiful, self-righteous shame.
31 DAYS 19 HOURS 11 MINUTES 32 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!
To me,
that isn’t even a Pryor complaint. And frankly, I agree with it. If we can’t take care of the rest of the league and are tied as co-champs, I think that’s legit. We want to claim solo champs, we need to take it from them. If that means not blowing a game elsewhere, then that’s what we need to do.
He's serious because Michael Robinson was the greatest vocal leader in Penn State history.
Michael Robinson was and is the sort of player who could make any team better. If you can’t make your team better with Michael Robinson, you’re not a great coach.
Michael Robinson did far more for his team than Pryor has done for Ohio State. Pryor has much room for improvement, but the above remains the truth.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Make fun of it all you want to.
Penn State sucked throughout the game against NW in 2005. Robinson walks into the huddle, says “What kind of a football team do you want to be?”, converts on 4th and 15 and wins the game.
Michael Robinson led a game winning drive against Northwestern in 2005. How many game winning drives has Pryor led?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He led that one that Penn State started on the 45 and wound up winning with.
Pryor led that one perfectly.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Aug 3, 2010 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wisconsin, 2008.
Thanks for playing.
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Aug 3, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean the Wisconsin team that we beat by 30 points?
Ahhh, the exception that proves the rule. Thanks for playing indeed.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
That wasn't the question..
He asked if Pryor led a game winning drive.
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Aug 3, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
And you correctly pointed out that he did.
Against a total dog shit team.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Thanks for playing, brah.
Thanks for playing, brah.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Never said brah.
Thanks though..
In all honesty, I’m one of the few Buckeyes that actually likes the program over there. True there are funny parts that I like to poke at, but what program doesn’t have that???
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Aug 4, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes he did.
Terrelle Pryor doesn’t beat Northwestern in 2005. Penn State finishes 8-3.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
People who weren't there can't understand.
If I sound like I’m a cult member, it’s because that’s how awesome Michael Robinson was. The dude sucked as a passer early on, but improved steadily as the year went on. I would have his baby.
And this much is still true: Michael Robinson did more for Penn State than Pryor has done for Ohio State. Michael Robinson can make any team better, I’m not sure about Pryor. Michael Robinson is unquestionably a better leader than Terrelle Pryor.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, RR.
Sam, take a read through here and explain to me what there is not to respect about M-Rob.
Then, take a look here and tell me which player, barring the colors of their jerseys, you’d rather have on your team.
If you pick the second, I think that clarifies just how much jaOSU fans are willing to pay for their players.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Sure But
Terrelle Pryor probably beats Michigan in 2005. Just saying.
Oh, great the Michigan fans are here to express their opinion.
OH SNAP SCOREBOARD
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps
I’ve been unable to read the scoreboard since PSU melted it the last 2 years against MICH.
PS. Enjoy a freshman (or redshirt frosh) QB. It’s LOADS of fun.
Dude, is this really the best you can dish out?
Penn State may go 9-3 (You know, because we actually have quite a lot of talent away from the QB position). No matter the record, they’ll still be 10x better than the 2008 Threet led Wolverines.
I haven’t seen you comment here since your team beat the Mighty Men of South Bend. Hopefully, you’ll bring back the good old UM chest thumping when you beat Connecticut.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he was actually trying to be friendly
and taking some half-hearted jabs.
But feel free to double up on the butthurt.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
Indeed he was.
This has happened before to me in internet urine balloon contests. Shockie, I apologize.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he was referring to the unholy butt raping you besieged upon us the past two years. 35-10 in 2009 and 657-4 in 2008
Don't celebration when you score goal
Give yourself a little credit dude
You scored 17 points on us in 2008, it was just kind of downhill for the Sheridan-Threet experiment from there.
(and this was a friendly jab)
2009
I was at the 2009 game. Once Molk died (AGAIN), I cried to myself and the game went from 7-0 to 7-21341651243, or something. I’m not sure, I blacked out.
I'm not familiar with Molk
but I remember the 2009 game fondly (sorry) for the game. I actually had the swine flu and was bundled in a blanket in my dorm room cheering (sort of anyway, I was so incredibly weak).
Although you guys did give me a scare with that first drive in 2009, but sort of like 2008 it was yakkity sax worthy from there.
If you'd like
I’ve missed you too. Are we still on for our cuddle sesh later? I invite Mike, he said you were bringing the lube if I brought the wine.
Or
Yuengling black and tan and you have a deal.
I'm glad we were able to come together
in our enjoyment of Yuengling. It was getting kinda nasty in here.
That beer could end wars, I tell you.
If somebody replaced my Sam Adams with Yuengling
I’d start a war
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Yeah, Pryor beats Michigan in 2005.
Because the Big Ten would never give Michigan an illigitimate 2 seconds against Ohio State, would they?
31 DAYS 19 HOURS 8 MINUTES 52 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!
No he wasn't
If he was, Penn State wouldn’t have sucked in 2003 and 2004.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Terrelle Pryor’s receivers have been guys like Ray Small, Dane Sanzenbacher, Brain Robiskie, and Jake Ballard. All of whom have been good. Penn State’s best receiver in 2004 was Mark Rubin. MARK RUBIN. Ohio State’s runningbacks have been guys like Beanie Wells, Maurice Wells, Brandon Saine, and Dan Herron. All of whom are good. Penn State’s best runningback was Tony Hunt, who was still a sophomore and hadn’t started rolling yet. Penn State’s offensive line was garbage. Guess what? When Pryor doesn’t get adequate protection, he’s played poorly like most quarterbacks. See the Purdue game from last season.
And yeah, the 2003 Penn State defense was totally as good as the 2009 Ohio State defense.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't give a crap about the supporting cast
Pryor is a winner. Period.
Robinson’s teams absolutely sucked for 2/4 years. You can’t expunge that from his legacy. At the end of the day, it’s about winning football games, and Pryor already has more Big Ten titles and BCS appearances than Robinson. I love M-Rob as much as the next guy, but to put him on the level of a winner like Terrelle Pryor is silly.
Is Pryor as good as the hype? I, like most people, am skeptical. But you can’t take away from what his teams have accomplished with him under center.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Right.
And I’m the one who got mocked with “Oh, he had moxie?”.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
John Shaffer is the best quarterback in Penn State, would have made the 2004 team a great team, and is just as good as Terrelle Pryor.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and this is the crux of the argument
If Pryor is really all that great, then why was he WR in the Fiesta Bowl? Why does it seem that his team hates (or hated) him, and wants (wanted) him replaced with Boeckman?
In arguments of football you can’t really make individual conclusions like that, but you can make some assumptions. The assumption most of the anti-Pryor people on this board are making is that Pryor’s VORP (to use an advanced baseball statistic here) is rather low. Clearly Brett Gardner, Johnny Damon, and Nick Swisher were the best outfielders in baseball last year, since they won more games and were the World Series champions. That’s how it works, right?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If Pryor's VORP is low
Then so is Robinson’s, and that’s pretty much all I’m saying here.
I’m hardly pro-Pryor by any measure, but you can’t argue with two Big Ten titles and a Rose Bowl win vs. 3 years of backing up Zack Mills with a comparable statistical season as a senior to Pryor’s sophomore numbers.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
yes you absolutely can
in one season as starting QB, Robinson had 1 big ten title, 1 Orange Bowl win(would have been in the Rose Bowl but it was the USC/Texas game). We all know Pryor really only has 1 Big Ten title.
And we will agree to disagree your viewpoint that somehow Pryor’s last season compares in any way to Robinson’s 2005. I just dont see how Pryor has done anything to this point even close to what Robinson accomplished. Im not saying pryor cant or wont be better when his time is up, but to this point i dont think its close, based on what MRob accomplished in one year.
How can you say that?
Pryor’s 2009 vs. Robinson’s 2005 are almost identical statistically. Robinson has what, 300 yards passing on Pryor? Big flipping deal. For all intents and purposes they were the same guy in those years, and accomplished the same things: a Big Ten title and a BCS win over a ranked opponent.
The separation comes when you evaulate Pryor’s freshman season vs. any of Robinson’s other years. It’s not even close. Pryor quarterbacked a championship team to a conference title. Robinson couldn’t get on the field unless he was playing wide receiver on some crappy football teams.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I thought it was all about winning
and OSU in 2009 lost twice—once to freakin Purdue—and PSU in 2005 only lost once—in a highly contested finish against scUM.
Its also how important each player was to his squad in those years. MRob was the heart and soul of PSU in 2005; TP was a talented qb, but no kind of leader.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
its night and day
ive already showed you before that Robinson’s 2005 is top 5 all time big ten seasons for a QB, he was a Heisman finalist and a postseason Big10 offensive POTY. Pryor hasnt sniffed that yet. he had more total TDs, more rushing yards, more passing yards, he broke a guys shoulder for christ’s sake, he went 12-1, he was seconds from a national championship spot, all while transitioning from WR to QB.
I realize there is probably no way of convincing either one in this argument but you make it seem like Pryor would blow him out of the water in 2009 versus 2005. Its false. And in their careers they both have a Big10 title and a BCS win under center. dont see where pryor is better yet, and I mean yet because i dont mean to say he wont eventually be considered better.
They were sort of close passing, sort of close rushing, and sort of close total TD production in one season.
The rest of the comparison is useless.
03/04 had a dearth of talent, and needed all they could get on the field. That meant playing Robinson, even if he was a superior QB, at other positions. The separation between Robinson as an RB and WR was greater than the next best player at those positions than it was between Robinson and Mills. So they played him there. There wasn’t really any other choice. Playing Robinson at QB with 10 terrible players wasn’t going to do much good. Playing Mills with Robinson to throw/hand off to and 9 other crappy players made the offense tougher to defend, even if Robinson would have been the better QB.
In case you couldn't tell,
my point is that all those “sort ofs” add up to a pretty substantial difference.
Pryor couldn't get on the field in the Fiesta Bowl unless he was playing wide receiver on some loaded football team.
It is like you are intentionally being ignorant of the fact that a B- QB (injured Zack Mills) plus an A+ athlete on the field makes for a better team than a B or B+ QB (just how I’m projecting Robinson would have been as QB in 2004 if he was a starter the whole time) plus NO ONE ELSE ON THE FIELD WITH HIM.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t effing back up Zack Mills. He was a freaking WR and RB that kept telling the coaching staff “guys, I really can play QB.”
Hell, in 2005, he was the one teaching the WRs how to run routes. This wasn’t “oh, Robinson wasn’t as good as Mills.” It was just crazy loyalty to Mills. You don’t go from “worse than a guy with a shredded shoulder” to “able to singlehandedly run over the Big Ten” in one year.
by Bleed Blue 'n White on Aug 4, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Robinson didn’t have a team until 2005. Mills was the QB because we are Penn State, loyal to a fault. When a QB sets passing records as a freshman, we’re nice and let him continue.
and Pryor already has more Big Ten titles and BCS appearances than Robinson.
Might want to consider the fact that there’s 1 more BCS game now than there was then. OSU wouldn’t’ve made it in 2008 under the pre-2006 BCS; no at-large slots would have been available.
In other words, if they hadn’t expanded the BCS, Robinson and Pryor would both have one appearance each.
And look, I didn’t even have to address the bull$#!+ “X is a winner. Period.” Can you name another winner? What happens if a winner plays a winner? IT’S COLLEGE FOOTBALL ARMAGEDDON.
by Bleed Blue 'n White on Aug 4, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just to be clear
Penn State’s best WR in 2004 was Michael Robinson. Penn State’s best RB in 2004 was Michael Robinson. Penn State’s best QB in 2004 was Zack Mills with a destroyed shoulder, but Michael Robinson would have been better had he actually practiced at that position.
Unfortunately, I think there’s some rule that prohibits players from cloning themselves and playing multiple positions at once (something about scholarship limits, and whether it would count once or multiple times, I think)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There sure is,
it’s called the “Brah” rule. It says you can’t be your own Brah and that you needed another Brah to play different positions.
seems completely unwarranted based on mediocre previous performances, or is based solely on his Rose Bowl performance against an Oregon team who was 35th in total defense in 2009.
35th is pretty good brah
Don't celebration when you score goal
Just because Michigan isn't within sniffing distance of 35th
doesn’t mean 35th is good. It’s not in the top 25% of teams, and assuming normal distribution of goodness across the span of FBS teams (which Sagarin’s rankings coinciding so well with both polls and results on the field kind of proves is true), means 35th is somewhere along the lines of “a far cry from either terrible or good”
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
35th actually sucks
when you look at some of the offenses they played last year. Washington State, Arizona State, UCLA, Washington. They only played 4 teams with total offenses in the top 50 in the country, and one of those 4 (Cal) was 49th. So when you look at the garbage they had to defend against, 35 isnt really that great,
Sam was acting a little bit lonesome, onery, and mean.
Boom. Waylon.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ramblers always been crazy but its kept him from going insane
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Oregon
would not have beaten Iowa and would’ve gotten blown out by Penn State last year. I think Northwestern and Michigan State would’ve at least been within 10 pts of them.
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Wait, hold on a second.
Oregon may not have beaten James Vandenberg’s Iowa team and would’ve gotten blown out by Stanzi’s Iowa team and Penn State last year.
That Oregon team was highly overrated. Looking back, the entire Pac 10 was overrated. I realized the folly of my “I think the Pac 10 is the best conference” comments during the Missed Tackle Bowls: Arizona-Oregon and Oregon State-Oregon.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What planet are you from?
Blown out by Penn State? How many times has Penn State even beaten a top-10 OOC team in the last ten years?
www.weoncehadtempe.com
A better question might be
how many times has Oregon? Because Penn State was a legit top 10 team last year, whereas I’m far less sure about Oregon
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Penn State may not have been a legit top 10 team either.
But Penn State’s defense was just as good as Ohio State’s, and Daryll Clark – whether OSU fans want to accept this or not – was a better passer than Pryor has been so far.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You know we won by seventeen points right?
I’m not seeing the “just as good” part, and I’m not sold that Darryl Clark stands up to TP when he isn’t racking up five touchdowns against Temple and Northwestern, given his track record against defenses with a pulse (Iowa, Ohio State the last two years).
www.weoncehadtempe.com
yup
8/17 and 125 yards…and thats with a 62 yard bomb to posey on blown coverage.
in other words, he completed 2 passes per quarter, averaging 9 yards each, with a bomb mixed in.
and i have read ohio state fans saying “yeah pryor arm punted up and down the field for touchdowns all day”
noooo, you were just the only team to rush over 200 yards on us last season. pryor had little to do with that win, and it certainly doesn’t prove that DC doesnt stand up to TP.
Sure, sure
1) When it comes to playing defenses with a pulse, Pryor hasn’t been much better. He was ok against Ohio State. Ohio State basically ran the ball every play against Iowa or that’s how I remember it. Texas game was ok. Clark was bad against Iowa, just ok (The same can be said for the entire offense) against OSU in 2008, and actually quite good against USC’s greatest defense since the history of man began and awesome in 2008.
2) When it comes to blowing out patsies, Clark is better than Pryor. Is that meaningless? Pretty much, but it sure was nice beating UM 35-10 last year.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Special Teams
OSU’s special teams were the biggest difference, IMO. But I’d give an edge to OSU’s defense as well. Better edge rush, more athletic secondary. Regardless OSU won in the trenches and on field position. Pryor had the separating TD pass, but wasn’t the driving force. He did what was needed, which was more than Clark.
name me a quarterback that could do anything when he has a DE and a DL hanging on him 2 seconds after taking the snap. you can blame many things for the loss to O$U last year, but Clark was not near the top
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
That's great dude
They won their conference and played in a BCS game. I think they’re fairly solid.
www.weoncehadtempe.com
BTW, by my count
Ohio State has exactly 1 — Miami, 2002
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Not in 2006
That team narrowly escaped defeat against a 6-7 Iowa team in the Alamo Bowl
maybe Notre Dame—05, but I dunno. Beating Notre Dame in a bowl is like killing people and murdering people: everybody does.
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If that were the case
Penn State over Nebraska in 2002
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
A 2009 Oregon -- Penn State comparison
Records: Oregon 10-3, Penn State 11-2 slight adv: PSU
Schedules: Oregon: 9 bowl teams, 2 BCS winners Penn State: 7 bowl teams, 2 BCS winners slight adv: Oregon
Best win: Penn State: LSU—#11 (Coleman MinV), Oregon: Arizona—#31 big adv: PSU
Worst loss: Penn State: Iowa — #7, Oregon: Stanford — #42 big adv: PSU
Combine all that info with the fact that Oregon’s front 4 were nothing special, and a special front four were a requirement to be within 20 of PSU, and yes, PSU would’ve blown out Oregon
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
by ckmneon on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
THE FLAME DON'T STOP BURNING
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like Billy Joel.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Oregon was a would-be middling Big Ten team who won the Pac-10 completely by default.
They crushed USC. So what? So did a meh Stanford team (that Oregon lost to, btw).
What was Oregon’s best win? An Arizona team (in overtime) that got curb-stomped by Iowa or an Oregon State team that was winning that game for the vast majority of it? Penn State’s win over LSU (and possibly the wins over Northwestern and a healthy Temple team) are more impressive than either.
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Auburn
as good or better than anyone Oregon beat.
In fact, having a 4th quarter lead at Alabama outdid anything Oregon did last year.
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Painful memories...
Bama would probably still have won, but we should have had one more chance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BngI6yAtTLE Peterson had at least one foot down.
LSU didn't beat much of anybody.
USC’s best win was, of course, Ohio State. Arizona’s best games were against Iowa and Nebraska. I don’t know who they beat. Stanford had that Gerhart guy. He was pretty good. I guess that excuses Oregon getting crushed by Stanford. Stanford’s best win was USC, who wasn’t very good despite beating Ohio State. Stanford and Purdue may have been a close game in my serious opinion.
At any rate, Penn State’s losses are better than Oregon’s losses. Ohio State was a legit top 10 team, Iowa was a legit top 10 team and possibly even a top 5 team with Stanzi.
For the life of me, I don’t know why I’m discussing this. I need to get out more.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
One of those extremely superior losses was to Ohio State, you know. In Happy Valley. By 17 points.
Don't celebration when you score goal
Which is, yes, far better than
losing to Stanford at all or getting your internal organs force fed to you by Boise State
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
But is it better than losing by four touchdowns combined to the only good teams on your schedule?
www.weoncehadtempe.com
For 2009 PSU, it's a mistake to get caught up too much in the margins
If you could get pressure on Clark with your front four, you were going to win. If you couldn’t, you were going to lose. Either way, it wasn’t going to be close.
Oregon’s d-line would’ve been middle of the pack for PSU’s schedule.
And to answer your question: absolutely, unequivocably, yes
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
WHOA SCOREBOARD
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have anything substantive? Or does head-to-head “not count” either?
Don't celebration when you score goal
Let’s see…2 passing TDs…1 rushing….that’s 18 points before XPs….yes, he did, in fact, outscore Penn State by himself.
Don't celebration when you score goal
Did Pryor return the punt that put OSU in position to score its first TD
Did Pryor sack Clark however many times it was? Did Pryor shut down Penn State’s run game? Did Pryor realize that PSU’s WRs could be shut down by press coverage and gameplan accordingly? Did Pryor provide run blocking that enabled OSU to run out the clock?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
As I mentioned earlier, head-to-head does count.
Unless OSU comes out on the losing end.
31 DAYS 19 HOURS 2 MINUTES 18 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!
Wait, what?
Ohio State certainly won’t face another team the caliber of that Oregon team in the Big Ten this season
Really? Really?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Iowa, Wisconsin and Penn State are all better than Oregon this year.
Maybe they won’t be ranked as highly, but the media had to put SOMEONE in the pac-10 in the rankings, and Oregon looks the most like an SEC team – criminals all over the place, a state with nothing else going on sports-wise, etc.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
[Head explodes]
Honestly no offense, but that doesn’t seem like the most rigorous analysis.
by BurrowesBldg on Aug 3, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
granted the SEC thing is tongue in cheek
but the general point is that the ducks wont be a great team this year. especially without masoli running the offense
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
This post generated roughly 249 comments.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
"JoePa doesn't give you a glimpse... of his team offensively or defensively"
Perhaps you should actually ask him.
its pretty unreal...
but why would they want to talk about these pertinent topics?
-starting RB who is poised to break the all-time PSU rushing record
-coming off of the B10’s top recruiting class
-the current QB situation
by Artiefufkin10 on Aug 2, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Because you know Joe wouldnt have answered those questions.
Ben and Alex... first commits for 2024, but temporarily replaced, since i couldnt resist the sign
maybe not....directly...
the response would have been something like….
-royster’s a heckuva/darn good football player
-the assistants have done a good job recruiting
-I don’t know who the QB is going to be, we have to let it play out.
Predictable, but maybe thats why they didn’t ask him.
by Artiefufkin10 on Aug 3, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
The whole press conference was actually scripted
and written by the same guy who wrote Ernest goes to Camp
John has a long moustache
yeah...but..
…the questions they did ask and his responses were completely predictible as well.
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
wow..
..i am not really sure what happened here tonight..
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
by amandakt on Aug 3, 2010 12:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Basically, Rambler, Dawson, and I made a bunch of arguments
supporting Mike’s claim that OSU’s win over Oregon wasn’t all that. We backed them up with evidence and the OSU and Michigan bloggers said we were stupid and didn’t have evidence why
John has a long moustache
by AdamShell on Aug 3, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd all the way.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Because "evidence"
in the refried bacon-and-turd omelet that is Adam Shell’s mind, is the following:
1. the transitive property of college football
2. shifting goalposts
3. WHAT YOU WANT A COMPUTER PROGRAM OR SUMPIN’
www.weoncehadtempe.com
You know, I thought he was sarcastic.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, more importantly
It’s an internet football (not economics, politics, 16th century French literature, football) blog and it’s after midnight. Adam Shell uses his real name and isn’t a douchebag, he just posts his honest opinion. I guess I don’t see the point in calling his mind a refreid bacon-and-turd omelet.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm unfamiliar
The only French literature I’ve read was Albert Camus’ The Stranger, one of my favorites.
Stupid French don't know how to use lives instead of life.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Crap, I'm lost...
Where are we on the flow chart?
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
by IcersGuy on Aug 3, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll correct you a bit
We (or at least I) made arguments that Pryor’s accolade was undeserved, which was what I thought Mike’s post was referring to. The “debate” then devolved into a neanderthal-esque pissing contest about bowl wins and which teams could beat which team’s bowl opponents, and rivalries, etc. And it got really nasty, and then we hugged as grown men do and made up, and now we’re all friends. Yuengling came up once or twice too, which I think may have helped.
Something like that, give or take friendship and hugs.
yeah, I totally missed out on the Oregon thread
:-(
by Mr. Rosewater on Aug 3, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just can't believe
Oregon’s loss to Boise Freakin State wasn’t brought up more than once. Fail.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
You mean the Boise State
That was better than Oregon, LSU, Ohio State and Penn State last year?
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
If you say so.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Oregon, perhaps
but I’d like to see them survive an entire season in the Big Ten or SEC. They might be able to hang with the best teams for one game, but over the course of a season? I think we’d be looking at a 4th or 5th place team in either league.
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
The Pac10 blew last season, and even their champion wasn't that good
I see no evidence that they were better than any of the teams you listed. We got dumped on for our schedule last year, but if we played Boise’s schedule we would be going undefeated every year. No one in their own league can even come close to competing with them, so they go undefeated, and suddenly they’re the best team ever?
Going undefeated is tough in any league, so it’s an accomplishment for Boise or TCU to do it, but you need a huge asterisk next to that undefeated record to look at who they played outside of Oregon.
Wow, you're right.
I guess I can’t blame Mike.
I really should go to bed.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry BSD Mike
But maybe this is a testament to how great of a job you’re doing with the site. The trolls must defend their honor on a PSU blog.
by Artiefufkin10 on Aug 3, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
Just don’t tell OSU fans that we have a rivalry with them. They clearly don’t care about us.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
by BSD on Aug 3, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I don't understand the big issue here
If the question is who is most deserving of the preseason (read: meaningless) OPOY award, the answer is John Clay. I don’t really understand how you can win the OPOY award last year, and not get the same honor in the preseason, but honestly…does it matter? I’m just happy there might be two years in a row where the B10 isn’t the national laughingstock…
"We heard all that talk all week about the SEC and their speed, but we knew personally that they weren't nearly as tough as us."
-Tony Hunt
by Cpiritual27 on Aug 3, 2010 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
Any one reading these comments will have a pretty large chuckle at the Big Ten’s expense.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 3, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus a gazillion.
The problem is there is too much money tied to recruiting services and the attention true fresh can get out of them (which also makes money for CFB). If Pryor is not an all world difference maker who lives up to the potential, then the services can be wrong. That’s bad for media coverage, because without recruiting there is less to cover. The number of vested parties here is absurd, so they will never say he isn’t the “POY Material.”
I feel really embarrrassed for them. It’s John Clay, easily.
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 3, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Lord Above Guys
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I can't believe you guys made the argument that Robinson was better than Pryor
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
WHOA, Fugi
“We” is a strong term that implies a conspiracy to agree on a certain opinion, of which, I did not offer my humble opinion.
Which player would I choose if making a fantasy college football team: Robinson, without a doubt. However, I spent the bulk of my school years and my PSU fandom growing up in the Dark Years, so I know and witnessed the struggles Robinson had (although probably not entirely his fault given as how the teams he played on were far from as stacked with top recruits as OSU teams are), and likewise would never make such a bold statement.
Fair Enough
It was a silly premise.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
No, it's not.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not a bold statement.
Robinson didn’t have the supporting cast in 2003 and 2004 that Pryor has had. If Fugi actually thinks Terrelle Pryor makes Penn State not sucks in 2003, then I’ve got a few short words for him: Mike Gasparato, starting tailback.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
As I said above
I don’t care if M-Rob played with the Mayview all-stars, he didn’t win football games in his first two years like Pryor did. Period. You can’t take that away from him no matter how much his stats might beg you to.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you're really ignoring the fact he didn't play QB.
Mills?
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 3, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
That one season was incredible
I mean he put up 29 TDs by himself, put himself in the top 5 seasons of passing yardage in school history, was a heisman finalist and a postseason B10 offensive player of the year. Went 12-1, and came within 2 seconds of playing for a national title. Pretty sure pryor has done none of that in 2 years of QB.
Again, Pryor is young and im not going to dismiss him yet, but the argument that Michael Robinson is not just as good, if not better, than pryor to this point is absurd
Not a single thing to do with his quarterback play
Pryor is an incredible douche, but you can’t bring his GPA into an argument about who’s the better quarterback, because then Stephen Hawking would be the best QB in the SEC.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
that was really just a knock on pryor
then to be deemed as evidence Robinson is a better QB, though you cant dismiss intelligence, i completely agree that academic big tens take nothing of ability on the field into account
Likewise you can't claim
he had the opportunity to play QB for more than one season.
Um...he did though
He could have beaten Zack Mills for the job at some point on the highway to hell in 2003 and 2004, but he didn’t.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
please
you and i both know no matter how good he was he was never going to take over Mills’ spot. Thats like saying DC was not as good a quarterback as Morelli because he backed him up before he was a starter.
There was zero depth at WR
… so you have to assume WR Mills?
Hypothesis:
QB Robinson + WR Mills < QB Mills + WR Robinson,
for QB Robinson = 0 to Heisman.
We had no one to help Mills on those teams!
Why would we thrust the best athlete we had into the QB spot when he was simultaneously our best RB and WR?
Pryor didn’t win football games in his first two years. The entire Ohio State Buckeyes team won those football games. What games did Pryor win, Fugi? The Oregon game is the only game where that argument comes close to working.
By the by, in how many games did Robinson start in 2003 and 2004. Two?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
start at QB, that is.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Why didn't Robinson start?
Because the coaches thought Mills was the better quarterback. So does that mean you want to make the argument that Mills was better than Pryor, too?
You can knock Pryor for his supporting cast all you want. Robinson’s wasn’t too freaking bad itself in 2005. If it’s not for the defense, Penn State gets blown the hell out by Ohio State that year. We literally could not score on them in the second half.
You can play these games all day long and it’s not going to matter.
Just win baby.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
You are trying to make the argument that Robinson was not as good as Pryor to this point.
Look at the stats above. That’s crazy, Fugi. Just win baby, whatever.
The coaches started Mills at QB because of a) seniority and b) a desperate need to get playmakers at WR. Hence, Robinson started at WR.
So basically, you want to argue that Pryor SO FAR has been an better football player when Robinson was the greatest leader in Penn State history and had one of the best seasons in school history all because Ohio State has gone to two BCS games in a row. Well, ok then.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
So answer me this:
Was John Shaffer better than Kerry Collins or Michael Robinson?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Chuck Fusina could have been better than all of them.
But why aren’t you even bringing him up? Because his team didn’t get it done in the Sugar Bowl.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? Why am I bringing him up?
You say Pryor is a winner and that, so far, has been your only reason for stating he has been better than Michael Robinson.
Well, you know what? John Shaffer had just a good a supporting cast as Terrelle Pryor has had. John Shaffer’s record in bowl games was 1-1, Terrelle Pryor’s record is 1-1. John Shaffer’s record from 1985 to 1985 was 23-1. He led PSU to two straight undefeated seasons and the greatest win in school history against Miami in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl. This is all despite the fact that he was a mediocre passer.
So, if your reasoning is that Pryor has been better than Robinson because he is a winner, then is John Shaffer better than Kerry Collins, Terrelle Pryor, or Michael Robinson?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
minor correction: undefeated regular seasons
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh jesus, I really did miss out.
The way I see it is Terrell Pryor has been pre-season player of the year twice, and post season player of the year zero times. Robinson and Clark both won that award. So yeah, I see preseason hype for a guy that was, at best, third team all confrence last year. So he’s what Jeff Smoker?
Anybody who puts any stock whatsoever, in a preseaon POTY year nod, outside of, “that’s cute, he better play ball this fall” is a fool. I don’t care who they root for.
Who gives a shit who the Big Ten Preseaon Player of the Year is? Seriously.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Jeff Smoker? Excellent. I would have gone with Brooks Bollinger or maybe Mike Samuel.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Tommie Frazier, Tim Tebow, and whoever started for Alabama in '79 are the only quarterbacks better than John Shaffer.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This whole argument is stupid.
What are we supposed to do, get in a line and prostrate ourselves before the Almighty Pryor, two time Big Ten Pre-Season Player of the year, Scourge of Eugene, and Erudite City Dweller?
WTF? It baffles me that these people seem to feel so entitled to this award that they have a problem with somebody saying; "Uh, okay…so what?"
I’d honestly have more respect for Ohio State people if they just posted a fan shot once a week called "Love us. Please. Wont’ you please love us? WHY WON’T YOU LOVE US YOU DICK!. YOU SUCK! I HATE YOU! I DON"T CARE ABOUT YOU AT ALL!!!!!!!!!"
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
by jesse. on Aug 3, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I just laughed very hard.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
"Erudite City Dweller"
Awesome. I think this post is my new favorite BSD rant of all time.
by Nittany Lawyer on Aug 3, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What does the award have to do with the discussion at hand?
I just don’t think Robinson was the better quarterback.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. I’m gonna play my alternate fight song now.
I’ve been down the Mississippi,
Down through New Orleans,
Yes, I have.
I’ve played in California,
There ain’t too much I haven’t seen.
No, there ain’t.
Well, I’m a ramblin’ man,
Don’t fool around with a ramblin’ man.
Left a girl in West Virginia,
Up there where that green grass grows,
Yes, I did.
Another girl in Cincinnati,
Waitin’ where the Ohio River flows,
Poor girl!
I’m a ramblin’ man,
Don’t give your heart to a ramblin’ man.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
look at the stats of his 2005 i posted above
You can name the players who have had better seasons than that since 1980 on one hand. 2006 Troy Smith, 2002 Brad Banks, 2000 Drew Brees, and 1994 Kerry Collins. I would maybe give you Jim Harbaugh in 86, though i think thats a stretch. But thats it. Thats the whole list. Pryor is nowhere near, to this point, being that caliber. Am I saying its not possible, no. But right now you cant argue with the numbers
actually i dont think thats the reason he didnt start, either
I think it was because Mills was a good QB and Robinson’s athleticism could be used elsewhere and get them both on the field at once. Mills wasnt lining up at WR (except those ridiculous trick plays) or returning punts, or playing RB in goal line. he needed weapons on those garbage teams back then, and who do you use, Robinson at QB with fewer offensive weapons, or Mills at QB with Robinson as an offensive weapon.
I don't buy that
If you want to use Robinson’s athleticism you get him the ball on every dang play. You give him the ability to run and pass. You don’t bring Mills in to split M-Rob out wide.
You argument makes sense to a degree, but if it’s me, I want my best playmaker behind center.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 3, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
i just dont see any way MROb was starting at QB while Mills was there. Mills was the incumbent starter for 3 years, MRob came a year later with the ability to play positions Mills never could. The Lions were thin with offensive athletes during Mills Tenure. Thats a roster loaded with Anwar Phillipses and Kinta Palmers and Gerald Smith’s. He was needed elsewhere. I mean he was the second leading receiver in 2004.
Bottom line is we didn't
have anybody else that could play wide receiver. Nobody. Maurice Humphrey was supposed to be our #1 but instead decided to beat up women and do some time in the clinky.
Mills wasn’t going to line up wide and do anything. Robinson had to be that guy.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
That's crazy talk
You don’t take the ball out of the hands of your best play maker at the most important position on the field so that he can get 10 touches a game.
That’s like saying that Yovanni Gallardo should play shortstop for the Brewers. Alcides Escobar freaking sucks, and Yovanni can hit a little. Should he stop pitching because Manny Parra can pitch, too? That’s nonsense. If Robinson was significantly better than Mills, he’d have been the quarterback.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
but ummm
if you go back to the 03-04 seasons, mainly 04, im pretty sure i remember that mills was the starter because mrob was needed in other places. i could be mistaken because 04 was my freshman year so i may have blacked out a little during the season, but yea to say he couldnt beat out mills who threw like a girl at that point, i dont quite buy.
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Coaches did not think that Mills was better
But they knew that Mills couldn’t play running back or WR and MR could.
Robinson threw for 379 yds in a start against Wiscy
when he hadn’t even practiced at QB other than the week before the game in 03. The team had absolutely no playmakers other than Mills and Robinson. They had to be on the field at the same time and Mills was only a QB.
I don't understand your argument...
For Robinson to win football games in his first two years, he had to be put in a position to do so. Which he wasn’t. At all.
And if you’re just looking at his 2005 season, I think it’s more important to look at Robinson’s losses compared to Pryor’s. If the defense holds against Michigan, that is one of the best game-winning drives in recent Penn State history. That loss was not on him. What about Pryor’s losses? You can’t say the same thing about at least 2 of those.
Well for Robinson to win games as a quarterback,
he would have needed to be the starting quarterback. Which of course he wasn’t. That’s like saying Derrick Williams couldn’t get it done at quarterback.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
if 2008 Iowa is any indication
he couldn’t
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What game were you watching?
Williams threw a strike on a crossing route. Might have been the best thrown pass that entire game.
but we lost that game
and as we all know, you’re nothing if you’re not a winner
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm actually going to have to retract my statement of neutrality
You might remember we blew in the first half of the decade. MRob was our top athlete on the team. That team was not even close to the level of talent that tOSU brings in year after year.
Robinson was and is a better football player than Pryor.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks everybody
I’m stuck at work an extra 4ish hours tonight. I’m tired and bored. But reading this has helped the time go by.
It never gets to be easy
I don't know what happened here, but it looks like Rambler was working extra hard at selling a few extra copies tonight. And by the looks of it, there are some new OSU and UM subscribers.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
Here's what I know:
1) Michael Robinson forever. Michael Robinson was basically as good as Joe Montana. Considering the style of offense we run, I’d only take Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, 1998 Donovan McNabb, and Fran Tarkenton over Michael Robinson.
2) Ohio State fans apparently don’t want to actually argue in favor of Pryor winning preseason POTY.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
That is outstanding
If that isn’t sarcasm, it makes it even more funny. What about Mike Vick? Charlie Ward? Tommy Frazier! They couldn’t hold MR’s jock, AMIRITE?!?!?
by Onestatewest on Aug 3, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike Vick is in jail. No thanks.
Charlie Ward? Yeah, ok. My mistake.
Frazier wasn’t a great passer.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and maybe Ty Detmer and Brees.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Jail, Philly, what's the difference?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone tell Hartnell that ears are not food.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You lost me with Fran Tarkenton
one of the most overrated players of all time. The fact that Fran Tarkenton and Joe Namath are in the Hall of Fame and Milt Plum isn’t is proof that it’s the Hall of Fame, and not the Hall of Greatest Players
All those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
i think the basis of this argument
is that we PSU fans admit that OSU has won many games with pryor at the helm, however they won inspite of him not BECAUSE of him. and the argument about his “arrival” after the Rose Bowl is that Oregon sucked on D and thats why he had good numbers. pryor is a GREAT talent. he is not a GREAT quarterback. MRob was not necessarily a great quarterback, he was a great LEADER.
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
by jman07 on Aug 3, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And once again, Mike proves just how brilliant of a blogmaster he is.
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
by IcersGuy on Aug 3, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Oh come on!
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha...he's more than allowed to
Seriously – this post has nearly 500 posts, ~95% of which were all started with a couple of closing sentences of a paragraph. The man knows how to mind-control the masses.
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
Recap
That was awesome and took up like an hour and a half of my morning at the office. fantastic. essentially what happened is the argument was made of the obvious absurdity that pryor is yet again preseason offensive player of the year. Then the Michigan-osu rivalry was laughed at, the osu fans who speak like Bill and Ted showed up to argue that Penn State is bad at football, and that 9-point Oregon game was an earth shattering, huge win for their program. All in between, penn state fans used ad hominems, and the brahs from Columbus and Ann Arbor (who earlier argued their rivalry was the best in sports) lovingly joined forces and “lol’d” at penn state fans claiming michael robinson was better as a qb than terrelle pryor (ill make my comparisons when pryor’s career is over, but to this point its not that absurd of a comparison). All the while no one ever made a claim as to why Pryor SHOULD be the preseason offensive player of the year, which is the whole point.
All this said, pre-season awards are NOTHING to puff your chest out about. They are pretty meaningless in the grand scheme. Personally, Id rather have Evan Royster take home The Doak Walker award then be a pre-season offensive player of the year. And id rather be atop the standings at the end of the year then the beginning. Preseason awards are popularity contests, because its a way to give out an honor to someone based on nothing. You dont need to take wins, stats, game day decisions, anything like that into account, because no games have yet been played. All you need to do is just think that “Pryor was a #1 recruit, he wasnt very good as a freshman, he was a little better last year, so we’ll give it to him this year cause we eventually have to get it right. right?” Would I have given it to Clay, probably, but hes a RB from Wisconsin, whats so fancy about that? i mean PRYOR BEAT OREGON LAST YEAR!! LOL SRS BRAH AD HOMINEM BRAH BRO SRS LOL AD HOMINEM COP THAT LOL AD HOMINEM
by swiggy04 on Aug 3, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Congrats to 2009 Pre-season award winners:
Michigan State: Big Ten media pick for 3rd Place in the Big Ten.
Illinois: Phil Steele’s pick for 2nd place in the Big Ten.
Michigan: Football Outsiders pick for 3rd place in the Big Ten.
Juice Williams: Manning, Maxwell, Davey O’Brien and Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Awards watch list.
by Cairo on Aug 3, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Holy crap, Phil Steele.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
but wait
I didn’t see Phil Steele self-congratulate himself once about that Illinois prediction in this year’s mag
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny thing about awards:
Bednarik Award for best defensive player in the NCAA:
2005: Paul Posluszny, PSU
2006: Paul Posluszny, PSU
2007: Dan Connor, PSU
Big Ten media award for best defensive player:
2005: AJ Hawk, O$U (their preseason pick)
2006: LaMarr Woodley, Michigan (their preseason pick was Poz)
2007: James Laurinaitis, O$U (their preseason pick)
Preseason media pick for offensive player of the year:
2007: RB Mike Hart, Michigan
2008: RB Beanie Wells, Ohio State
2009: QB T. Pryor, Ohio State
Awards actually went to Rashard Mendenhall, Shonn Greene, and John Clay of Illinois, Iowa and Wisconsin respectively. Hart and Wells made the Big Ten second team, Pryor was not on any 2009 All-conference team.
I dunno, I might see a bias here…
by Cairo on Aug 3, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Cairo, brah, you're putting in solid work lately.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
To Rambler from above
My browser at work freezes every time I hit “reply”
Anyway, I’m going to ask you again about Chuck Fusina. He’s arguably one of the best statistical quarterbacks Penn State has ever had. But when you’re comparing Shafer to other great statistical quarterbacks (Collins, Robinson, Clark) you leave Fusina out of the discussion.
Why?
Because Fusina’s team lost in 1979. He sunk into obscurity. You don’t put him on in the same discussion with the other great statistical quarterbacks because of that.
That’s why your whole “winning doesn’t matter” thing rings hollow.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I'm sorry
This entire argument is based off the premise that Robinson isn’t a winner. Which is absurd. I don’t even know why it’s still going on.
No
The argument is that Pryor has won more in less time, and that’s not really arguable.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
You're right, it's not.
Pryor has already had twice as many games at QB than MR12.
And who's fault is that?
It goes against any reasonable football logic to say “We’re going to take our best playmaker at quarterback and move him to wideout because we don’t have anyone else, so we’re going to limit him to 10 touches at most a game”
If Robinson was significantly better at quarterback than Zack Mills, he’d have been playing quarterback. He wasn’t, and Zack played. So unless you want to argue that Zack Mills was a better quarterback than Pryor, you need to give up this “he only played one year” thing. It’s his fault. He wasn’t good enough, or wasn’t better than Mills enough to get the job, so how could he be better than Pryor without Mills being better than Pryor too?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Answer your own question.
One game, 2005 Penn State versus 2009 Ohio State. You coach Penn State. You can have 2009 Pryor or 2005 Robinson as your quarterback. Pick.
If you pick Pryor, you’ve at least convinced yourself. If you pick Robinson, that can only be because Robinson was better. Will Pryor be better than Robinson? Maybe, maybe not. But I don’t think he is yet.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
I'd take Pryor.
I’m fairly certain he could have thrown 11-20 for 78 yards and rushed for 52 on 14 carries in that game.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Then you are a crazy person.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
Robinson set the bar so incredibly low in that game Pryor could crawl over it and look like a star. Robinson couldn’t even punch it in from the two until thrird down after the Lowry pick. We couldn’t do a goddam thing in that game. We were litterally playing for field position the entire second half, and the only way we were getting it was on Hunt’s two legs.
Robinson did absolutely nothing in that game.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Are you serious?
I can’t even take you seriously after this:
Robinson couldn’t even punch it in from the two until thrird down after the Lowry pick.
But he did score, didn’t he, fugi? And he did it himself. He actually ran through A.J. Hawk, didn’t he, fugi?
Robinson did absolutely nothing in that game.
In the name of all that is holy, how on Earth could Terrelle Pryor do better? That’s why you’re crazy.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
By rolling out of bed.
Pryor never crawled into a hole and hid last year like Robinson did in that game. Not even the Purdue game. Robinson was absolutely terrible, far worse than TP 2009 in any game.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Since you did the same below, let me give you my opinion:
You actually started this with “Terrelle Pryor is better because he is a winner”. That eventually degenerated to where we are now. What hole did Robinson crawl into, Fugi? I mean, honestly I can’t even figure out what you’re talking about. Did you watch Pryor in the Purdue game. Did you watch him throw some of the worst interceptions I’ve ever seen? Did you watch him handle Purdue’s pressure like a wounded duck? For all of your talk about “Just win, baby”, how comes Robinson doesn’t get credit for following the gameplan? I guess Ohio State’s defense doesn’t get any credit either. Well, Fugi, they were pretty good.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the Purdue game
Then I watched him nail Posey in the end zone against Penn State. I watched him go 14-17 against Iowa. I watched him win the Rose Bowl.
Pryor was everything last year that Robinson was in ‘05 statistically. Won the same number of games. Won the conference (Pryor’s was unshared) and won a BCS game (Oregon was better than Florida St.).
Robinson ’05 had nothing on Pryor ’09.
But guess what? Pryor “followed the gameplan” and won the conference in ’08 too. Make all the fumble jokes you want. Robinson never saw near that success in any season but ’05.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
we can both agree that playing qb is more than just stats
and MRob brought a ton of intangibles to the table in 2005 that TP has not yet shown he possesses.
Statistically: TP LOST MORE IN 09 than MRob in 05.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
That's great. You dodged the question.
Pryor never crawled into a hole and hid last year like Robinson did in that game. Not even the Purdue game.
That statement is stupid, I think you know it was stupid, and you followed it up by changing topics to his performances against other teams last year.
Also, what spak just said.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Pryor threw 30 balls and ran 24 times
That’s not crawling into a hole and throwing for 78 yards, regardless of the picks.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHH
I forgot: Robinson called his own plays.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
ridiculous
ive never heard a player who had 130 total yards and TD on a marsh with no turnovers be called a coward. particularly one who was close to being leading rusher and was more efficient than his opposing QB. If MRob hid, what did Troy Smith do? or Tony Hunt for that matter?
Yeah they both sucked
If Robinson was the God you all make him out to be, he’s have run over A.J. Hawk, ripped out his innards and thrown them at Tressell. Instead he spent the whole second half praying the defense would hold, just like everyone else in the stadium.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Second quarter brah
Not the second half.
And that came on a third down after he’d been set up one the one by an interception.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
you wanted him to run over AJ Hawk, there it is
BTW if he hid during the OSU game, whatd he do for us against Michigan that year? he was the only guy on the field in that second half if i recall.
And where was he in 2003 and 2004 when we were losing to Toledo?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
or was that '01?
I can’t remember. I just know they beat us.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
HAHAHAHA
That Toledo team was 10-1 with Chester Taylor at running back.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
It was Toledo
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
It doesn't matter anyway.
But they were good.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
So
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover. Amstutz had some good teams.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
you arent somehow suggesting that 09 pryor
would have somehow made us a 9-3 or 8-4 team those years we were garbage are you?
Not really
I think he could have made us better than we were, though, Whether that’d have manifested itself in any wins with that team, idk.
And for the record I don’t think Pryor is that good. I just don’t think Robinson is better.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Pryor wasnt going to be a starting QB
right out of the gate here either. He’d have sat behind DC17 for two years.
Neither one apparently is going to convince the other they are wrong (even though I am right), so continuing this argument was stupid an hour ago, but i will leave you with this:
When Pryor wins a meaningful post-season award, call me. When he is a heisman finalist, call me. When he is seconds away from playing for a national title, call me. When he has more total TDs than Robinson did as a QB in ’05, call me. When he physically attacks a DB in the open field and ends his career, instead of high stepping out of bounds every time he runs, call me. and when he has the respect of his fan base 5 years after college the way PSU fans talk about Robinson, call me.
Until then, Pryor means nothing to me, and he couldn’t shine MRob’s shoes.
That being said, this was at least an intelligent discussion, and i enjoyed it. you may have the final word.
by swiggy04 on Aug 3, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you are absolutely right that Pryor would have made us better in 2003 & 2004 than we were
he would have made a great WR lining up opposite Robinson.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i dont see it
your adding 2+2 and getting 5. Pryors 09 was not close to Robinson’s ’05. In any way. at all. Im not going to go through the stats again, but its not close.
i honestly dont get where you are coming up with the idea hes better in 09? its backed up by nothing but winning the same number of games (with one more try) and beating Oregon in the Rose Bowl (maybe Oregon was better, but they were both overrated winners of weak BCS conferences), when MRob also has a BCS win (he cant pick who they play).
but other than those two pieces of weak evidence, which are faulty and almost useless, he has done nothing else in 09 better than MRob did in 05. and its not close.
Pryor's '09 wasn't better
It was comparable. The separation comes in the other seasons.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Indeed.
Ohio State with Michael Robinson would have beaten PSU in 2008.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You can contend that.
I won’t.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Yes.
Because you’ve dug your hole.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont even see where its comparable
robinson was a heisman finalist and player of the year. Those are two huge achievements your just throwing away like they dont matter.
O Geez
2005 Robinson: 2350 yards, 52% completion, 17 TDs, 10 INTs, 806 rushing yards, 11 TDs, 4.9 YPC
2009 Pryor: 2094 yards, 56% completion, 18 TDs, 10 INTs, 779 rushing yards, 7 TDs, 4.8 YPC
Like I said, 300 yard all-purpose yards and a couple rushing TDs. Robinson’s numbers might have gotten him more rec, but that doens’t make them that much better.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
End result
Still 11 wins. Still an outright title. Still a Rose Bowl win.
Who cares about Purdue.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
I care about Purdue.
Michigan in 2005 was a talented but inconsistent football team. USC was a talented but overrated, inconsistent, and poorly coached (or it so seemed) team in 2009. Purdue had their moments, but ultimately lost to Northern Illinois and couldn’t manage a winning record.
And you just want to brush that away?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Did it detract from the end result?
No.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
It sure as heck would have detracted from the bloody end result if Stanzi doesn't get injured or if Daniel Murray doesn't miss a field goal.
What next, Fugi? Michael Robinson would have lost to Purdue too? Well, he certainly didn’t lose to Northwestern, did he?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you seem to forget that there were only 11 regular season games in 2005
Robinson had more yards, nearly as many passing TDs, more rushing TDs, and as many wins in FEWER games.
As I said above, Pryor did do one thing more than Robinson: lose 2 games instead of 1
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It's Simple
And it’s the flawed premise of this 400 post thread. It’s that Preseaon Player of the Year means anything. It doesn’t.
Actual Big Ten Player of the year, Daryl Clark & MichaeL Robinson for instance does. Once Pryor actually wins an award based on performance, then maybe we’ll talk about it. But to put him in the discussion based upon a season he hasn’t had yet is silly.
The “statistically comperable” season that Fugi keeps going on and on about neted Pryor third team all Big Ten. That’s the end of this stoy.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
To be clear
I don’t care about pre-season player of the year.
I just don’t think Robinson was better than Pryor.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
It also won him an outright Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Is he better than Clark too, or just Robinson?
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Clark was better than both of them.
He’s won at an equal clip to Pryor and is vastly superior statistically. I don’t see that race as even close.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
personally
i think you’re crazy if you think that the 2005 psu team would have won that game against osu with Clark—who always crapped the bed against great defenses. MRob might not have played great, but he didn’t lose the game either.
Then again, I already think you’re crazy and full of bs arguments.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
What great defenses did Robinson face?
And how many of them did his defense and special teams force him to come back on?
Iowa 2008 notwithstanding, the game situation was Clark’s biggest enemy through no fault of his own.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
What great defenes did Robinson face?
Ohio State. Florida State was close but not really great, although they did very well. Wisconsin was also good.
Better question: what great defenses did Pryor face? As much as I love Iowa, I’m not sure I give “great” to a defense with such a mediocre run defense.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure someone else will post this
but here’s also what Pryor did better in 2009 than Robinson did in 2005: he LOST more games.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
where did robinson crawl into a hole?
He was damn near close to being the games leading rusher in that game, he threw no picks, and he was just as good as troy smith in that game, and id submit he was betterm didnt smith turn the ball over 3 times as well?
Crawled into a hole and hid?
The defenses in that game were insane. No one on either offense had good numbers. But the statistic that stands out is the 0 in the turnover box for Robinson. He took care of the ball, led one scoring drive and punched it in on the second (barely ran over A.J. Hawk?). What else should he have done?
defenses were two of the best
and the field was a mess from hurrican katrina that rolled through that morning/night before. I think my car is still stuck in the mud at my tailgate spot from that game.
field was a mess
it was not going to be an offensive powerhouse of a game. I mean Tony hunt did not have many more yards rushing than Robinson in that game, and troy smith i dont recall having some prolific passing day either, and threw a pick that cost them and fumbled, things MRob did NOT do. Robinson was just as good, if not better, than his counterparts in that game.
Robinson and Smith were about equal.
They both had a touchdown run. Oh, and there was that time Robinson threw an interception to Calvin Lowry which led to one of the key scores for Ohio State.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Troy Smith was also better than Pryor... in fact
Troy Smith is the best QB I’ve seen come out of OSU (small sample size… I didn’t used to pay attention to OSU) and then the NFL was stupid with him.
John has a long moustache
the game jesse. was referring to was NOT 2005 OSU at PSU
it was a hypothetical game between 2005 PSU and 2009 OSU.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Right
And you can have Senior Michael Robinson or Sophmore Terrell Pryor. If you want Pryor, you can have him. Twice for all I care.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Hell
Who do you think Tressell ould pick in that game, Robinson, Pryor or 2005 Troy Smith?
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Troy Smith.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, because he fit their offense and he was great college quarterback (Although he hadn't exploded yet in '05).
Better than Robinson, in fact now that I think about it.
Tressel wouldn’t pick Pryor because Pryor hasn’t shown any reason to be trusted in a close game.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam
isn’t your argument really that TP had better freshman and sophmore years than MRob did?
By your logic: player A plays qb for 4 years and has good, but not great season every year. player B is the backup qb for his first 3 years on bad teams; he does nothing of value. In his senior year, he starts and does great. Most reasonable people agree that player B’s senior year is better than any one year player A had.
And you conclude: player A is the better qb.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Aug 3, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
its not that illogical to put the best team on the field
The fact of the matter was for those years the team was better with Robinson at WR and Mills at QB. That doesnt mean, at all, that robinson couldnt beat mills out.
All it means is you have two playmakers and only 1 QB position. so you need to put both on the field at the same time to field the best team, particularly if one is able to play WR/RB/PR. So why wouldnt you do that?
It's a reasonable argument...if they're comparable players
But if you’re argument is that Robinson is significantly better than Pryor, by extension you must argue that he’s significantly better than Mills, too, unless you want to argue that Mills is better than Pryor, too.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
you do realize that players can improve from one year to the next
right?
Mills might have been a better quarterback than MRob in 2003. That doesn’t mean he was a better quaterback than MRob period.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
AD HOMINEM
i digress, your argument is that MROb cant be a better QB than Mills because he backed up Mills for three years. I would agree with you totally on premise alone except for two things. Name the last incumbent starter Joe has ousted for a freshman/sophomore? And 2, who was a better QB, Clark or Morelli? Didnt Clark back Morelli up? If he was so good, why didnt he start over morelli?
Are you saying?
That the coaches know and acknowledge that a younger player is better than the older incumbant, but willingly play said incumbant as a favor?
Do.not.want. Best player at each position. If a coach willingly goes astray from that model, they are cheating the team.
From an old post of mine.
Ohio State QB passing efficiency ratings including Pryor. He didn’t qualify in 2008 because he didn’t throw the minimum number of passes to register for the NCAA stat. Green dots represent conference titles (2009 needs to be added too).
They are winning in spite of him, not because of him. The same could not be said of Michael Robinson.
by Cairo on Aug 3, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Honestly, I had no idea how much my comment would spark things
I honestly thought most people would acknowledge that MRob was better than Pryor has been so far.
John has a long moustache
I didn't mention Chuck Fusina because I don't remember him.
My Dad doesn’t remember him. My grandfather probably doesn’t remember him.
And thanks for taking me out of context with that last sentence there, FOOGE.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Why don't you remember him?
Because he didn’t win the Sugar Bowl
That’s it.
That’s all.
You love to crown these great statistical guys, but Fusina might have been better than all of them, and you have no idea who he was because he lost that game and frittered away into obscurity.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
Fugi, you really should try to avoid getting angry and putting words into my mouth
First of all, I do know who Chuck Fusina is. He played for Penn State at quarterback. He was one bad game against Kentucky away from going undefeated in the regular season two years in a row. I think he won the Davey O’Brian award. I own a copy of the Greatest Games in Penn State History. But I never watched him play. I have absolutely no memory of him.
I “crown” Kerry Collins and Michael Robinson because I remember watching them play and they played somewhat recently. Sorry I didn’t include Chuck Hartlieb, Damon Huard, and Len Dawson in my comparison, Fugi.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess the short version would be:
This is just really, really stupid semantics.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I just feel if a thread is going to be this long and ranting
that skinz4ever needs to be mentioned at least once
Holy hell
This resulted from just Day 1 of Media Week?
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
383 comments.
Mike is secretly skins4ever. Terrelle Pryor is his Coach Ed DeChellis.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
I know.
But they may well be one and the same.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 3, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe how much time I've wasted in this thread.
Fugi, brah, you and me we’re going to rehab when this is over.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
I mean, think what you want to think
The stats say Robinson was no better in 2005 than Pryor was in ‘09. Robinson doesn’t have a second title in his back pocket. It’s that simple.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
my question doesnt pertain to the Mrob/Pryor debate
but rather is this, Fugi: does O$U have a “shared” ’08 title and outright ’09 title because of pryor or in spite of him? i think you could remove pryor and replace him with 15-20 different QBs from around the nation and O$U would still win as many games. to me, a winner is a guy who leads his team to victory, that you cannot replace him and have the same results.
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
More total passing yards, rushing yards, and TDs,
in ONE FEWER GAME (so, also higher winning percentage).
You keep conveniently ignoring that he played 12 games as opposed to Pryor’s 13, and then arguing that the stats are close enough that there’s “no difference.” When you look at single season stats, they appear sort of close. When you recognize that Pryor had an extra game to get there, they are not close.
As pointed out numerous times, Robinson only got one shot at a title and won it. If you are going to stick with this he-didn’t-beat-out-mills meme, and you are going to say Clark is better than both, then you have to say QB14 is better than all of them.
So how about it, is QB14 the best QB if brought into this discussion?
Ok
-You want to make this “one fewer game” argument? Let’s take the averages then. Pryor’s completion percentage was four points higher in ‘09 than Robinson’s in ‘05. Both his YPC and YPA averages are within a point of Robinson’s (YPC was within .1). Based on that, which removes your “one game” argument from discussion, there is little if anything truly better about Robinson’s statistics than Pryor’s, so statistically, they’re a wash.
Again, what separates Pryor is the second Big Ten title. You cans say they won despite him. Whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that he was a contributor on a championship team, which far exceeds anything else M-Rob accomplished in his preceding three years.
-Paterno has admitted he screwed the Clark/Morelli situation up. There’s been no such regret regarding Mills over Robinson, so I’m really not sure what Morelli has to do with any of this.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 4, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Within 1 yard?
That’s a pretty significant difference. YPA was a half yard lower, and YPC was .14 lower, TD per game was over .4 lower. Those are much more significant than “little if anything truly better about Robinson’s statistics than Pryor’s.” So statistically, they’re not a wash, Robinson was clearly performing consistently better.
Again, there is no second big 10 title to seperate Pryor in this discussion. As I mentioned above, 03/04 offense with Robinson at RB/WR and Mills at QB was greater than 03/04 offense with Robinson at WB and Mills on the bench. That doesn’t mean Mills was a better QB than Robinson, this was not an 08/09 OSU offense with multiple options at multiple positions. Robinson was the best WR/RB by a greater margin than at QB.
“There’s been no such regret regarding Mills over Robinson” – because there was no choice, like I just pointed out. Also, yeah, like Joe is always so forthcoming with everyone that he is going to say every time he thinks he makes a mistake. Finally, what a bogus rationalization. So you are sticking with the whole idea that a player is never better than someone they can’t overtake as a starter (unless, of course, the coach later admits to the press and fans it’s a mistake)?
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
One last time
-Getting back to J-Nitt’s VORP point from earlier, if Pryor is the replacement player, and Robinson is the one we’re VORPing, then a half yard per attempt and a tenth of a yard per carry aren’t statistically relevant. Also, you conveniently leave out the inferior completion percentage so…yeah…
-Love how we gloss over the fact that Pryor unseated a pretty good, national championship level quarterback to get the job. Ohio State could have done the same thing you’re proposing Penn State did. Pryor would have been the best athlete on the edge on that team, and he’d have had a guy far more reliable than Mills throwing to him. You know what though? Ohio State chose the touches, and sat Boeckman. There’s a reason for that. You make your best playmaker at quarterback your quarterback. In Ohio State’s case, it was Pryor. In Penn State’s it was Mills. That speaks well for Pryor, and not so much for Michael Robinson
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
So now you're taking the much larger
sample size, and importing it into J-Nitt’s one game analysis because . . . that’s all you have left? All as a way to demean every single stat that Robinson was consistently better in. Yes, Pryor had a better completion percentage and STILL had a 0.5 lower YPA. I left it out because you brought in YPA. YPA takes into account all the incomplete passes you throw by marking them 0. So if you want to bring completion percentage back in, then yes Pryor is better, and Robinson was even more impressively superior with the passes he threw.
-Not true at all. Those teams had excellent and polished RBs and WRs. Would Pryor be the “best athlete” (as you conveniently chose to phrase it), really no way to know. But he would have been way down the list as a WR or RB. Ohio State had a luxury Penn State did not. Pryor could have been a very solid WR or RB and still been 3rd best at either position, which is giving him a HUGE benefit of the doubt. That allowed Pryor to practice exclusively at QB where Boeckman was a nice QB who had hit his ceiling.
The ironic thing is the two situations have some similarities and you cannot even see it. Pryor might be a better WR than he would be a QB, but they were loaded there. The QB position, however, had less talent than other positions (without considering Pryor) so he got his shot there. The same way Robinson did not get to practice as much as a QB because the QB position already had the most talent of any skill position (without considering Robinson).
Do you make all of your decisions in this asinine vacuum that you think QB decisions should be made? Hey, I enjoy eating fried clams on summer afternoons. But you know what, I don’t have them for lunch every day over salad even though they are better. You see, it might hinder my ability to live, and I am concerned about the big picture (I might have lost you, Robinson at QB is fried clams for lunch. It seems appealing if you just look at the fried clams and the salad. Mills at QB and Robinson at WR/RB is salad. If you were just thinking about the QB position you would choose Robinson. But you are being shortsighted. Choosing the salad is better for you long term, which is why the 03/04 offense was set up that way).
We're going in circles
-I would rather have a quarterback who routinely nailed 5 yard outs than threw a bunch of deep balls and hit on one every once in a while. That’s an extreme example but you get my drift. Maybe Robinson was more impressive with his completions. I’ll concede it. I just don’t think that makes him a better QB anymore than you think Pryor’s completion percentage makes him better.
-I did, in fact, get lost in the rest of it. I will settle this by promising that I will get this question answered by someone who knows.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 5, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
There are arguments for both. But you brought in YPA, so I had to point it out. YPA takes incompletions into account by giving them a 0 value towards the average. If a QB really consistently nails the 5 yarder, enough to make up for the short yardage then it will be reflected in his YPA. Over a decent sample size, you should theoretically always want the guy with the higher YPA since that will mean more total yardage.
Now, like you pointed out, it’s not perfect. There will be some scenarios where you will throw incompletes on 3rd and short that, again in theory, the guy with the higher completion percentage would make. But the argument for YPA says that over the long haul you will make more first downs by gaining more yardage anyway.
Let’s just say they are both good indicators, and I will concede completion percentage. So completion percentage is the only area Pryor was better. Which makes him . . . almost entirely statistically worse.
My point about the vacuum is you have to judge the entire offense. Your argument about JUST QB vs. QB would be valid if it kept Robinson on the bench. It didn’t. He played almost every snap because the entire offense was better that way. If the competition was QB passing drills without running the football and without a defense, and Mills started over Robinson in that, then you would have a point. But it’s a football game, and the QB position is not played in a vacuum.
and count
me sad that you didn’t respond to my lunch analogy. I had fun with that.
My apologies
You’re probably a little too bright for me bro haha.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 6, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
If I recall correctly
which I may not be (I’m sure there is some bias in my memory), but Pryor as QB in 2008 was largely because of the trouncing OSU suffered at the hands of USC, where Boeckman lost his starting position, and now you have the #1 recruit freshman phenom at the reigns. Once that happened Tressel was in a sticky situation, where he either tells his wonderboy that he has to go back to backup duties, or realize “hey, we’re not likely in the national title hunt anymore, might as well just go all in and try to develop this kid over the season.” Probably was the right decision, and Pryor was likely much better in 2009 because of that.
It was not, however, like Pryor came in and really stole the show and proved he should be the #1 QB, like it seems you are implying. I will state right here that I think OSU has the same, or perhaps even better, 2008 record with Boeckman at the helm instead of Pryor.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that
However, I doubt Vest would deliberately tank the Big Ten for the sake of developing Pryor.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Aug 5, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, I doubt that much
and he wouldn’t have put Pryor in if he was complete crap, but OSU (and PSU, and Iowa) are usually defense first teams, and it is a bonus if you have good production out of your QB. And I think the Vest did a good job at limiting what Pryor was sent in to do (ie run the ball, or short, high percentage passes). Sorta long the lines of “I’d rather start a QB late than early”, you also want to start out slow once you do get them in the system.
For all intents and purposes, I think Pryor has a lot of potential, and likely will turn into a very good, if not great QB, I just don’t think he’s there quite yet, hence my “outrage” (as much outrage as I can muster, at least, for a meaningless pre-season accolade) over his pre-season OPOTY award.
My other issue with Pryor is all the praise he’s gotten for winning when, again, he plays on a team that wins with defense, and actually had a quite mediocre (~50th percentile) offense. Perhaps if he was a game manager like John Shaffer, and played not to lose games, too, but he’s not, and so far he’s lost a few games that an “average” guy like Shaffer probably wouldn’t have lost. Maybe he’s made it up in some games that he"s “won” but I can’t personally think of a single game where Pryor did anything special to win a game that wasn’t a “comeback” because of a situation he himself already put them in. Wisky 2008 and Oregon 2009 (well technically 2010) are his “crowning achievements”, and they really aren’t that impressive.
He also gets all this praise for his running threat, which is duly earned, but let’s not forget, he’s trying to run a pro-style offense, and isn’t doing that great a job at it.
So while I wouldn’t be surprised if he did win OPOTY this year, I have yet to see him do anything to earn it other than decide to play for OSU. In my opinion, if Pryor was on nearly any other team, he wouldn’t be as successful, and similarly if anyone else was QBing for OSU, they’d have just as many wins (which so far was your criteria for calling him deserving/great/whatever). that was the crux of my VORP argument.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
"what separates Pryor is the second Big Ten title"
so you are saying that if Pryor was at PSU from 2002-2005 that we would have more than 1 Big Ten title during that period? Because Pryor is obviously a winner, and therefore his wins would have transferred identically from the 2008-2009 OSU teams to the 2002-2003 PSU teams? Man Pryor really is a phenomenal specimen.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok here's the deal
Pryor needs to finish with 100% Big Ten Championship wins. Robinson got 100% at QB, and if Pryor’s that great, we know he has the talent around him, there should be no reason whatsoever that he doesn’t get 100%.
He can help his case by leaving for the pros after this year and not getting drafted as well.
John has a long moustache
That's nonsense
Is a guy that retires after going 1/1 in his career better than Babe Ruth?
Sorry Shell, I love you man, but you need to take the blue and white glasses off.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
ridiculous
whose to say robinson would have completed 75% of his passes for 200 yards and anothe 125 on the ground with 3 or 4 total TDs in that one extra game against a cream puff opponent. Then his statistics OBLITERATE pryors for that season. OBLITERATE
in my one defense of Pryor
he did have 2 regular season matchups against USC, whereas our 2005 OOC was nothing special
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Now you're just speculating.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
You really shouldn't be the one to say that.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
my point is with one less game, against a non conference cream puff opponent like Pryor had, you cant just average everything out and make it seem like the two are a wash. Give MRob the ability to play a Troy or an Ohio or a Marshall and see what he does. That one big game being left off the schedule is a big deal.
again, Pryor technically didn't have one more game against a cream puff opponent
his extra game (each season) was against USC.
Robinson’s OOC opponents
South Florida (6-6)
Cincinnati (4-7)
Central Michigan (6-5)
Florida State (Orange Bowl) (8-5)
Pryor’s OOC opponents
2008:
Youngstown State (1-AA)
Ohio (4-8)
USC (12-1)
Troy (8-5)
2009:
Navy (10-4)
USC (9-4)
Toledo (5-7)
New Mexico State (3-10)
Overall, OSU’s OOC slate in both those years was significantly harder than Penn State’s 2005 OOC.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, and I forgot to put OSU's bowl opponents
2008: Texas (12-1)
2009: Oregon (10-3)
Since those games do go into the stats
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont see that argument being very persuasive
I throw away his 2008, he only started against Troy.
Why is his “extra game” USC? and secondly im not about to pretend this USC was some stalwart team. Its defense was not that great, they graduated half their DL and all their LBs (where have we heard this) the year before. And it was in Columbus, and he lost it.
At any rate, your still taking a game away from MRob to add to his stats. Even if they played Texas and MRob only had 100 yds passing and 50 yds rushing, it still adds to his stats. You cant just dismiss that. Am i speculating as to what his stats would be in that one extra game? sure. But its not speculation to think that having 60 more minutes of football in order to add to your numbers is a big advantage, i dont care who you play.
well I agree that the yardage and TD numbers would be better
but his YPA and completion percentages and turnovers could also be worse.
My point, though is that comparing 2009 to 2005
Navy > Central Michigan
South Florida ~ Toledo
New Mexico State < Cincinnati
That all about averages out, since the difference between Navy and Central Michigan is probably about the same difference as NMSU and Cinci that year. Then you add in USC which is better than any of the 3 teams PSU played.
For 2008, Pryor didn’t start the full season, so the games played were actually closer to even, and actually in MRob’s favor.
To keep the comparisons equal, PSU would have had to play something equivalent to a 9 win team, which isn’t a team we would likely be putting up gaudy numbers against.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yes you make a fair point
and im not trying to be a jerk and sound like im disagreeing for disagreements sake, but 1) we could still put up gaudy numbers against a 9 win team from the Pac 10 (we did it against Oregon State) so just because its a 9 win team doesnt mean that much and (2) just because Ohio State played a 9 win team doesnt mean Robinson’s theoretical stats have to come against a powerhouse.
The original comparison was that 2009 pryor > 2005 robinson (if i remember still). My original argument was that robinson won awards and did things pryor hasnt come close to, plus his stats are superior to pryors that seaso, while playing in one less game. So to be honest, any 12th game against anybody would go towards just boosting his already superior stats. If it came against a 10 win or 4 win team is sorta irrelevant. But I fully understand your point and you are correct, although Pryor had an extra game, it was against a pretty good team (though that doesnt excuse Lebron in Cleats from losing at home to a decidedly weaker USC team with a freshman QB and not put up 250 yards and 150 on the ground.)
Cool
What you just said proves absolutely nothing.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Lol
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
by Roland86 on Aug 4, 2010 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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