Yo Buckeye Battle Cry, Listen Up
by BSD on Aug 4, 2010 11:35 AM EDT
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I don't usually like calling out writers and bloggers by name, unless we're having a little fun with it with a good friend, but when another blogger calls BSD out by name I figure they at least deserve a response.
When I wrote my recap of day one of the Big Ten Media Days, I knew this line would get a response.
At what point is Terrelle Pryor going to live up to his hype and actually, like, win something on the field? And no, beating Oregon in the Rose Bowl does not count.
That little line generated a thread that is approaching 500 comments, and only 200 of those are Rambler and Fugi arm wrestling over how great Michael Robinson was. It was a pretty fun debate to read through yesterday, and I'd like to thank the Ohio State fans who participated in the thread for managing to keep the JoePoop jokes to a minimum. It also created quite a spark in all of the Ohio State message boards, though it really wasn't a debate there. It was more like what Buckeye Battle Cry had to say in his post titled Message To Black Shoe Diaries.
Before I get into the actual substance of the debate going on between our two fan bases, I would like to address the tone of this "message". Take note who is calling whom "infantile" while they crack sexuality and poop jokes out the other side of their mouth. Nothing of this nature came from me to instigate this. I don't see why we can't have this debate without hurling insults at each other. I have an opinion, and you have yours. So let's lay out the merits and have at it. To resort to "infantile" remarks while you accuse others of doing the same, even though they are not, just tells me you are not exactly comfortable with your position and you feel the need to put your opponent on the defensive. Or maybe you just think it's cool and people will like you. Either way, whatever.The Lil’ Old Nittanies have their panties in a wad again today….They’ve decided over there that they’re not getting the attention that they deserve, so they’ve reverted back to their infantile default-mode of picking on Terrelle Pryor.
The win over Oregon, which was ranked #7 at the time, no longer counts. Putting up 336 yards against them on the biggest stage Pryor has ever known, isn’t good enough apparently.
...
The boys over at Black Shoe Diaries need to have their adult diapers changed. Much like their head coach.
Bloggers should hold themselves to a higher esteem on a level above the masses. You, sir, give bloggers a bad name. When honest bloggers trying to make something of themselves get denied for press passes from their school, it is because of "infantile" people like you. I hope that makes you stop and think. It is shameful behavior on your part, and you represent your school with disgrace. Congrats on that.
Having said that, let me next address my comment quoted above. After reading through the debate and thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion I chose my words very poorly. To say that Terrelle Pryor "hasn't won anything on the field" is not true. It is also not exactly what I meant to say. His team has won two Big Ten titles (one shared that most other conferences would not recognize) and he won the Rose Bowl over a top ten ranked team with him at quarterback. I wrote the post at the end of a very long day. I was tired and I had half of an hour to put something together. But that's no excuse. When you put your opinions out there on the internet for everyone to see, you have to choose your words carefully and you have to be correct 100% of the time. So I deserve all of the ridicule I got for that one. Shame on me, but save the poop jokes.
If I had it to do over again, I would simply ask when will Terrelle Pryor put up statistics that warrant all of the hype he receives? This is a guy who finished tenth in the Big Ten in passing last year. He was eighth in passing efficiency. Admittedly, he is a pretty good runner and he should be commended on that. He would make a great running back or an even better wide receiver. But he's a lousy quarterback, and that is not my opinion. The statistics do not lie.
And no, Buckeye fans, none of this is jealousy from Pryor picking Ohio State over Penn State as was suggested in the comments. That decision was made years ago. It is done and I assure you Penn State fans have completely moved on. Seeing him cry his sweet tears on the bench after the game in 2008 after he made the game-losing fumble cemented that feeling forever. And every time he manages to find a microphone behind Tressell's back and say something about how everybody murders and steals we thank our lucky stars you got him and we didn't. So don't flatter yourself anymore with thinking we're jealous. Just put that one to bed.
My comments about Pryor were also not an attempt to get "the attention that (Penn State) deserve(s)." I have said numerous times in the past months that I expect a 9-3 season from Penn State. I'm including a loss to Ohio State in that. I'm not crying that the media didn't pick Penn State to finish in the top three of the conference, though I did point out that the media didn't pick them in the top three in 2005 or 2008 either. I simply mentioned it as bulletin board material for Penn State fans. In making my comments about Pryor, I didn't say Evan Royster deserved more recognition. I'm not suggesting any Penn State player deserves the award this year, though last year was a different story. In fact, I questioned why John Clay was not recognized by the media as the preseason offensive POTY. (pssst...he plays for Wisconsin.) Clay led the Big Ten in rushing and scoring last year and won the postseason POTY award from the coaches and the media. Why would he not be the heavy favorite to repeat as POTY? That's all I'm asking. I'm still waiting for a Buckeye to address this.
You can point to the Rose Bowl game as evidence that Pryor is TEH AWSUM!!! But the Ducks didn't exactly have the world's most dominating defense, and he had a month to prepare. Ohio State won the game by controlling the ball and playing good defense, but I would hardly say Pryor "won the game". He simply kept the car out of the ditch. In the game prior to that he threw for 67 yards against Michigan who was using scarecrows in the secondary last year. So forgive me if I hold back on my expectations for Terrelle Pryor for just a little while longer. I've heard this mantra about turning the corner in the bowl game before. And Anthony Morelli was no better in season two than he was in season one.
I think the Buckeyes will have a good season. You have to pick them as favorites to win the Big Ten. But mark my words and throw them back in my face if I'm wrong: They will not go undefeated, and they will not win the National Championship. They will lose one or two games, and Terrelle Pryor will be the reason.
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Exactly, it was a pretty logical argument for me.
If the Big 10’s post season POTY returns, shouldn’t he be the preseason favorite to win it again?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Nope.
Pryor had underwhelming games against the worst teams on the schedule. And when he faced an accomplished defense (Wisconsin) he was shut down.
2 INTs vs. Toledo.
11 of 23 passing for 135 yards against NEW MEXICO STATE
5 of 13 passing for 87 yards against Wisconsin, several runs for little to no gain, two sacks and a bad INT
8 of 17 passing for 125 yards against the Nittany Lions
9 of 17 passing for 67 yards against MICHIGAN
THIS is the guy who gets Preseason POY honors.
Come on, Clay and Royster. May the best back win…
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Anent Pryor's decision to go to OSU
Terrelle made the right call in going to OSU. He would not have started at Penn State until this season had he gone to Happy Valley. In Columbus, he got to start as a freshman and had a coach who was willing to put in the time and patience to develop him as a quarterback.
Note also that Pittsburgh is about 10 minutes closer to Columbus than State College. I’d say when Ki-Jana Carter (growing up literally in the same neighborhood as the OSU campus, if I remember correctly) picking Penn State is a bit more of an afront to Ohio State’s manhood than Pryor leaving Pennsylvania.
I don’t think Pittsburgh is closer to Columbus, but point taken. There are a lot of PSU fans in Pittsburgh, but it’s not exactly Penn State country.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh is almost right on the middle.
If you live on the WEST SIDE of the burgh, you’re probably closer to Columbus, and those reppin’ Mo-ville are closer to SC. Being just outside the city limits due south, I’m probably closer to Columbus. But Pittsburgh is most assuredly a PSU town before it is an OSU town.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 4, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh is almost right on the middle.
If you live on the WEST SIDE of the burgh, you’re probably closer to Columbus, and those reppin’ Mo-ville are closer to SC. Being just outside the city limits due south, I’m probably closer to Columbus. But Pittsburgh is most assuredly a PSU town before it is an OSU town.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 4, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually Jeannette is east...
…of Pittsburgh and about 120 miles from State College. But it’s about 200 miles from Columbus. In distances that short, 80 miles is a big difference.
Now from where I live in W. Pa Columbus is a pretty easy 2.5 – 3 hour drive. Once I get on I 70 it’s quite simple. State College, on the other hand, is closer in miles (about 150), but takes about 3 hours due to the nature of the drive.
If by “the nature of the drive” you mean “the perpetual cluster#%$k that is 22,” then I concede. I just feel the need to dispel the idea that Pittsburgh is in any way close to Ohio.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 4, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The drive has been vastly improved since they finished the highway leading into SC.
But, as J Breezy states, its still worse than the straight shot that is I-70.
And Pittsburgh is very close to Ohio.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 4, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
La la la, I can't hear you.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 4, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Pgh is not really far...
..from Ohio. I personally live less than 20 miles from downtown Pgh and about 25 miles from Ohio.
Then there’s Steubenville, which advertises itself as “The Burb of the Burg”, as in a suburb of Pittsburgh (unless by Burg they mean Burgettstown! – haha).
Yes, the drive to SC on 22 is insane. And it was worse when I was in school in the early 80s. I can’t believe I never killed myself making that trip. I did crash once, but no injuries fortunately.
Agreed that everyone is over the Pryor-selected-OSU thing.
We ridicule him because he is the QB at Ohio State. We don’t like Ohio State. Ohio State is a successful team and a rival. Ergo, we don’t like Pryor and treat him as a rival. It’s called the transitive property, look it up.
No matter how many teams are in it, I will continue to dislike the Big Ten.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 4, 2010 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
Good point.
This is why I do it. But in no way am I jealous about not having that kid.
“Everyone does” would have been embarrassing, if he was wearing blue and white.
I’d take DC any day of the week.
+1 this
I’d take DC any day of the week.
In fact, I’ll go another step and say “I’d take DC (for the past two years) and Kevin Newsome (as the heir apparent this coming year) any day of the week.”
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
You'd take Newsome over...
…an upperclassman with 2 full years experience? That’s crazy.
Look, as much as many on here hate to admit it Pryor is talented and has had good games. One of them, regrettably, was against PSU last year. He didn’t do anything great, but he did things well and managed the game and moved the chains. He was clutch too, coming up with the big 3rd down play when needed. He is definitely overhyped by a wide margin, but that’s not his fault. I hate to say it, but I think he will have a big year this year. Not up to his hype…I honestly think that’s impossible at this point, but I do think he will put up legit POY type numbers.
So I’ll say it…I wish PSU had him THIS YEAR instead of Newsome or whoever ends up at qb.
On the other hand....
…PSU is in a rebuilding mode this year and maybe it would be better to get a young qb his experience when not much is expected of the team anyway. That way qb won’t be an unknown the following year when better things are to be expected.
In other words, maybe a guy like Pryor wouldn’t make that much difference with PSU this year. Plus, as has been said, he wouldn’t have had much PT at PSU thus far had he come here.
That's hardly fair at this point.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
take it back
"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"
Well, I'll clarify
The comment wasn’t based on who I’d take with respect to winning games. It was based on who “I’d take any day” in the Blue & White.
More along the thought lines of
Seeing him cry his sweet tears on the bench after the game in 2008 after he made the game-losing fumble cemented that feeling forever. And every time he manages to find a microphone behind Tressell’s back and say something about how everybody murders and steals we thank our lucky stars you got him and we didn’t.
from above.
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
Don't get the Ohioans started on the transitive property.
"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler
by leeharvey418 on Aug 4, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You are a classier man than I Mr. BSD
I would have titled this post “Hey, tOSU Fans” and the only content would be this:
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
by Roland86 on Aug 4, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Hold on a second -
How could scarecrow have played on our O-line and in Meatchicken’s secondary?
"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler
Not that I want to "crack sexuality".....
but is this statement incestuous ?
by DerryPharmer on Aug 4, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You found us, lol
“crack sexuality” and “incestuous”, I can’t wait.
Ben and Alex... first commits for 2024, but temporarily replaced, since i couldnt resist the sign
You all probably know......
that I’m older than most of the yunginz on this blog…..however, when the best you have to cut down PSU about is crap jokes about Joe, well then you need to step back, review your life and tell your Mom that you’ll be moving out of the basement real soon….try to be creative not reactive Hateboys.
by DerryPharmer on Aug 4, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes, only gifs are appropriate.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Aug 4, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
green!
…for you too DP!
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Aug 4, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll try to answer why he was picked over Clay...
I think this is a pick based on potential, now that we’ve actually seen at least a little bit.
I know you can’t extrapolate single game stats out, but just for fun:
over 3000 passing yards at a 62% completion rate. 24 TDs 12 picks.
Over 850 rushing yards.
If the team wins the Big 10, I’d say that’s a good argument for Offensive POY.
In Clay’s case, how much more upside does he have? I’d say scoring 18 TDs again would be a big feat. Yardage-wise, my initial thought is he’ll end up around the same.
In my opinion, looking at it that way, it’s a toss up. And I’d say people tend to vote for something new and exciting (obviously not on defense, where I don’t think there’s a standout leader after Jones).
but what if UW finishes second, and, as I expect (despite the super-knowledgeable media predictions) their passing game blows?
Clay would have carried an offense to second place. Pryor would have received consistently short fields and a stellar supporting cast.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Why would the passing game "blow"?
The Badgers only return their entire offensive line, the best Badger WR since Brandon Williams, and can protect their feature back from having to face 9 men in the box.
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
John Clay did miss the spring game and spring practices.
But he appears to be 100% now.
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The Potter Stewart Argument
I don’t know why I think he’s a bad QB except, except that I know which reasons aren’t the reasons. It’s NOT becauase: he chose OSU, he said “too country”, he said “everyone does”, or he/OSU claims Big Ten titles in 2005 and 2008. Those things make me not like him, but it has nothing to do with my analysis of his QBing skills.
He is an awkward passer with one solid game statwise under his belt. He is streaky at best. He is kept close to the vest (no pun intended) in that offense. He is the best wide receiver on a team that is in need of wide receivers.
Like Mike and others, I’m not saying he’s not a good athlete, nor am I saying he’s not PART of the reason OSU has won over the past two years. He’s just not THE reason they have won so much. To claim as such is ridiculous, especially when the OSU boards express concern over Pryor when they are having internal debates.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
The only point to be made
is that Pryor has yet to prove he can get it done against Big Ten defenses.
The real accomplishment belongs to OSU’s defense—that was a dominant performance against a potent Oregon offense. Oregon’s defense, on the other hand, regularly gave up plenty of points and plenty of yards last year. The fact that OSU put up a whopping 26 points against that kind of defense doesn’t mean that Pryor is ready to dominate the Big Ten.
So no, the Rose Bowl “doesn’t count” towards the argument that Pryor finally deserves all that hype. Your comment came off a little rushed, but it was absolutely right.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 4, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
I love that in the
related Fanshots list on the right is a nice big picture of The Redneck Rocker video that rants about how much he wants to murder TP for sucking so badly.
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Love the Redneck Rocker...you should podcast with him
www.federalagentforum.com
by SweepTheLeg on Aug 4, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, please do
Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.
You don't ever have to explain yourself to OSU fans
Anyone with half a brain understood what you were getting at on your first comment.
Could we amend your title to...
“Yo Buckeye Battle Cry, listen up Brahs”?
One man doing the work of 100's for the good of 1000's
Question..
Why does a preseason POTY award even exist? I’m genuinely curious as to how something like this got started. It seems to me that it only exists so the media can salivate further over some player they think they should talk a lot about to get higher ratings, more hits on a website, etc, etc.. It just seems like a stupid award to me.. even if it did go to PSU player.
"Victory without honor is an unseasoned dish. It might fill you up, but it won't taste good" - Joe Paterno
touche
"Victory without honor is an unseasoned dish. It might fill you up, but it won't taste good" - Joe Paterno
Buckeyes don't know what "hype" means
To them, it’s preordained fact to which all others are jealous of.
The fact is, he HAS won on the field. The Lil’ Ol’ Lions just want to keep moving the goalposts.
He throws four TD passes in his starting debut? Not good enough.
He won a Big Ten Championship? Not good enough.
He won at Top-10 Penn State, scoring 3 TDs? Not good enough.
He beats Top-10 Iowa? Not good enough.
He wins a second Big Ten title? Not good enough.
He beats #7 Oregon? Not good enough.
He wins Rose Bowl MVP? Not good enough.It willnever be good enough for them. The pathetic haters will always find a way to change the goal line, but Pryor will always find it again and again.
They’re heads on that site are as big as Pryor’s ego…
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
Everything begins with "He"
Except for the first one, everything else was a team accomplishment.
Hell, I beat LSU in a bowl game, just by being an alum.
And did Stanzi play in that Iowa game? Thought he was injured.
by Mr. Rosewater on Aug 4, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
because it's convenient
to their argument. How many times do we have to say “what has he done that another B10 QB can’t do with all the talent he has around him?” This is where Robinson came into the conversation
Pryor is more physically gifted...
…than Robinson (but not by much), but he will NEVER come close to being the leader Robinson was. As a roughly 40 year PSU fan I have never seen anyone lead and will a team to his way like Robinson did on 2005. He was a freak of leadership.
I dont think anyone is "moving goalposts"
I just think a valid counterpoint can be made for each point they make. Which is essentially the crux of what an argument is all about.
The fact is, he HAS won on the field. The Lil’ Ol’ Lions just want to keep moving the goalposts.
He throws four TD passes in his starting debut? Not good enough.
He won a Big Ten Championship? Not good enough.
He won at Top-10 Penn State, scoring 3 TDs? Not good enough.
He beats Top-10 Iowa? Not good enough.
He wins a second Big Ten title? Not good enough.
He beats #7 Oregon? Not good enough.
He wins Rose Bowl MVP? Not good enough.
It willnever be good enough for them. The pathetic haters will always find a way to change the goal line, but Pryor will always find it again and again.
short answer
1. Against Troy? No
2. He shared it with PSU, so no
3. we werent top 10 at the time, but i digress. Ray Small won that game for you, so no
4. not sure they were top 10 either at the time but In overtime, at home, so no. also im pretty sure he didnt even have 100 yds passing in that game, and saine and herron carried you to victory there (which you almost blew) so absolutely NO
5. His first B10 title is nice. Though Ohio State won it not Terrelle Pryor, so no.
6. Oregon the team with a 35th ranked defense, who played 7 schools 60th or worse in the NCAA in team offense for the year (ironically, this includes the 62nd ranked OSU juggernaut offense that the great Pryor himself led), No.
7. Great, hes officially as good as Marques Tuiasosopo. No.
by swiggy04 on Aug 4, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He didn't even complete 50% of his passes against the Nittany Lions...
Wisconsin’s defense OWNED Pryor last season. When you hold him to a measley 5 completions AND hold OSU under 100 yards rushing, you have the upper hand.
Until your starting QB decides that it would really, really be a good day to throw the football to Kurt Coleman.
Yeah…
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He won a first big ten title really.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Ohio State
2008 Big Ten “co-champions”*
- lost to the team that won the conference
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
SO hate that crap.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
They're co-champions
in the same sense that 2005 Ohio State were Big Ten “co-champions”* and 2007 Arizona State were Pac Ten “co-champions”*.
And, of course, the same sense that 1998 Ohio State were Big Ten “co-champions”.
1993 gets a partial pass. They just got OWNED by Michigan that year and sent Wisconsin to the 1994 Rose Bowl.
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
it is amazing
how much mileage comes from anything regarding Pryor on these here interwebz. Polarizing to say the least.
the next
two years should be interesting. A lot of people will feel vindicated in their feelings one way or the other.
agrred He is not staying the 2 years.
"I love it when a plan comes together!" Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith
by psu in the w-b on Aug 4, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
“It will be nice when he graduates leaves school … "
Fixed
by BMAN13 on Aug 4, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
W E R D
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Aug 4, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm.
It’s a preseason popularity contest, which 75% of the time will be won by someone from Michigan or Ohio State unless there’s a really obvious alternative. Like it or not, Pryor is a star in a league without many star players this season, so people who vote for a meaningless award like this will gravitate toward him and a dominant program like Ohio State. BFD.
Everyone’s so touchy. We’re really arguing over a ridiculous award that puts the “winner” in a no-win position? Actual football must be near.
And really, Oregon nearly lost to Purdue, and gave up more points to Purdue, Stanford, Arizona, and Oregon State than they did to Ohio State. So let’s not act like they were the ‘85 Bears. Pryor had a very, very good game against Oregon, but it’s reasonable to say that OSU’s defense was primarily responsible for winning that game. They held Oregon to 2-11 on 3rd downs and held Masoli to 9-20 / 81 yards passing.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 4, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
Also, this, then I'll stop replying to myself.
Ohio St. Time of Posession: 41:37
Pryor gets partial credit for that, too.
by Run Up The Score on Aug 4, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you know what's funny?
No one, I mean no one, argued about the award in that massive thread the other day. None of the Ohio State people touched it….oh, wait there was only one Ohio State person and the rest of the people involved were a bunch of Michigan fans angry ’cause someone dissed their awesome rivalry.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Purdid
Ia ora te natura, E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ua pau te maitai no te fenua, Re zai noa ra te ora o te mitie
SAVE THE GULF
Purdone!
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Aug 4, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Purshould
Purwill
Puris
Purare
Purmaybe
Purdidn’t
Puryes
Purno
Purcan
Purhas
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 4, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Purrfect........
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Aug 5, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I did.
Thanks.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd just for 'Purno'
It’s what Indiana kids hide under the mattress.
"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler
Nice work, BSD Mike.
I figured that “TP not winning anything on the field” line would get some deserved sh!t. Good work on regaining the rhetorical high ground afterward.
The thing that amazes me
is that OSU fans can’t accept that, at this point in his career, Pryor has lost them more games than he’s won. Even diehard fans should be able to do that – hell, we had to do it with Morelli how many times? A QB rarely wins a game, but he frequently loses them. That is what TP has done so far – lose the few that hung in the balance.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Boeckman starts againts PSU...
…and Ohio State wins that game in 2008. He carved PSU up the year before. I think with or without Pryor at WR in that game, they win with Boeckman.
Granted their were holding calls blown repeatedly in that game
But I’d give the edge to our defense that year, even if Boeckman was playing. He was a better passer, but we had a stellar pass rush. From what I remember from that game, Maybin landed quite a few hands on Pryor, who is able to evade with his legs, I don’t know if Boeckman could have done the same.
Would it have scared me more had he actually played instead of Pryor though? Hell yes.
I agree with the Texas and the Boeckman.
Sorry, dawson, but I believe Boeckman runs us hard if he starts that game.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Semi-OT but...
In regards to the sour grapes over Pryor picking Ohio State, the thing I always think about is that I am happy he picked Ohio State over Michigan. I would much rather have the current situation, where he and Tressel have decided to do the square-peg-round-hole thing in hopes of preparing him to be an NFL QB, as opposed to having him in Rodriguez’s scheme. I mean, Michigan may actually have won some Big Ten games…
This
scUM under Fraudriguez really would have been a better fit for his abilities. He reminds a lot of Pat White – on the field, anyway.
by MorgantownLion on Aug 4, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt
I’m just saying prior fits that mold (and would be a better fit in RRod’s scheme).
Pat White was much better, and by all accounts a great guy.
by MorgantownLion on Aug 4, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Pryor
Obv. Not “prior”. Stupid android autocorrect…
by MorgantownLion on Aug 4, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That
Because it’s August and we’re running out of conversation topics, I’d just like to throw out there that I very much dislike the “This” comment (and I’ve been guilty of it too). “+1”, “Yes”, and “Agree” fall into the same category. There’s a rec button for expressing the same sentiment, everyone knows it’s there, and it’s designed in part to cut down on useless comments; a person who types “This” is just trying to be louder than other commenters or to get third parties to notice that he is in agreement, which who cares: you’re on the Internet. I would look asinine if I Reply-All’d to a coworker’s group email with “This”. MorgantownLion’s comment is not a great example because he follows it up with actual thought.
Alright, soapbox dismounted. Also I realize I’m opening myself up to some ironic “This” and “+1” replies.
by gumbercules on Aug 4, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
NO IRONY FOR YOU!
All you get is minus 1’s with an entourage of Not This and a side of Your Soapbox Sucks.
Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.
by jtothep on Aug 4, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I didn't get a harrumph out of that guy
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 4, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Heck, you didn't even get bread!
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 4, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
atta boy!
and wif tek skillz 2!
Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.
Well, it could have been worse.
I could have been like “Brah…SRS? LoL!”, as if I’m some sort of internets version of the Jersey Shore.
Then again, Ann Arbor (I think she’s fairly whorish) is the midwest’s version of Jersey City.
by MorgantownLion on Aug 5, 2010 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Especially
with all of that extra practice time.
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
by nitwit86 on Aug 4, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think the annoyance comes from the hype
Pryor, and OSU with him under center, has done some very nice things. Big Ten Title, Rose Bowl win over a good, not great BCS team, won some big games against PSU and Iowa this past season on their way to the title. And if Terrelle Pryor did that as a freshman and sophomore as a run of the mill recruit, then wed be impressed
But hes not a run of the mill type recruit, he was the #1 QB in the nation, they called him LeBron in Cleats for christ sakes. He should have more to show than 1 Big Ten Title, mediocre statistics, and a decent but not spectacular rosebowl win. Tim Tebow had like 70 TDs at this point, a national title, a heisman, and a davey obrien award. Colt McCoy had passed for 6000+ yards. Michael Vick held the record for highest pass efficiency as a freshman. Matt Barkley beat him head to head last year.
Has he done some nice things as a QB, sure. But you hyped him to be the next best thing, teh next Tebow or Vick (or both), and yet he has produced nowhere near those state and he has never finished higher than 8th in his own CONFERENCE in passing efficiency.
by swiggy04 on Aug 4, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I agree completely, but....
The guy he is most often compared to…Vince Young…had a similar career and stats his first two years and then he had a monster year his third year. And THAT’S what scares me about Pryor for this year.
this is faulty logic
or at least it seems like it to me. Sure, there are comparisons to be made, but based on the very fact that Vince Young’s transition was something special indicates that it is much more likely that Pryor won’t make the leap. Sure, he’s more likely than most other players to make the leap, but it is still less likely than him just remaining mediocre.
“That guy over there missed the target 2 times in a row, but on the third try he hit the bulls-eye, therefore this guy over here, after missing the target 2 times in a row will also hit the bulls-eye on his third attempt”
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 4, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it's not logical.
It’s just a feeling I have, that’s all. More like a dreadful feeling.
The other thing about Vince Young's transition
Texas tailored that offense to him to produce that success, so much so that our coaches spent time with the Texas coaches to learn some of that offense. I remember reading where Pryor refuses to be anything put a pro-style QB because his only goal is to be a pro QB. College wins are incidental. So, it leads to the awkward situation where the OSU offense is geared to Pryor passing, but Tressel—wisely—does not trust Pryor to pass to win games. IF that offense were remotely geared toward capitalizing on Pryor’s freakish athleticism and particular skill set, I would be all aboard the Pryor-for-Heisman bandwagon, even as I am lamenting it.
by Nittany Lawyer on Aug 4, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a good point.
And it’s something I never understood with Pryor. He is an amazing athlete, but he’s no pro qb. So why insist on playing qb? He could make millions in the NFL at another position so why not start learning that million dollar trade in college???
I just don’t get it when kids do that.
Paterno Insults
Seriously?
Let’s be straight. Joe’s stool has more class than any other coaches’ persons combined. Making comments about the best coach the game has ever seen, and quite frankly, the most honorable man the game has ever seen, is wholly juvenile. Quite frankly, OSU fans, it makes you look stupid, whether directly or by association.
Now go burn some LeBron jerseys.
by MainLion on Aug 4, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Way to barrring it, brah
Ohio State has the worst fans in the Big Ten. Bar none. And it’s not even close. Humorless in defeat. Condescending in victory. Generally insecure all the time. I’ve partied and had fun with fans of every team in this league, save Ohio State.
I agree
The second anybody bangs on Paterno it outs them as somebody who doesn’t understand college football. At which point, you’re listening to the opinion of somebody who doesn’t understand what they are talking about, so who cares what they say?
Not that the guy is infalable, but seriously, poop jokes? Still? Oh, yeah, I forgot. Ohio State fans don’t get old. How very nice for them.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
Well,
they don’t get old in the public eye anyway. So they don’t have to worry about fans making poop jokes about them. It makes it easier to let them fly.
Poop jokes on the internet are hackneyed and old
but my friends still bust them out every once and again in person—and they are objectively funny. I get angry about them and everything—it’s a sure fire way to get under any psu fan’s skin—but I can also recognize that they’re funny.
Farting at an indelicate time in public is always funny. So is a well-placed poop joke. Those are the rules; I didn’t make them.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Grumpy jokes make me poop!
"Nothing turns me on like doe estrus." - ReadingRambler
by leeharvey418 on Aug 6, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
BBC
I went to Ohio State, love the school, but I don’t understand why the BBC feels they need to pick a fight with every other blog or fan from other schools. I don’t agree that Pryor hasn’t won anything on the field, I mean, it’s the Rose Bowl. That doesn’t mean I am going to hurl childish insults at BSD which I think is a fantastic sports blog. You think they would have learned after getting kicked of SB Nation.
Oh, and I completely believe that Pryor is going to cost us another game this season, just as long as its not against you guys…
Go Bucks.
Costing a team a game...
…is pretty much inherent to the qb position. Almost every qb does it at some point in the season. A recent PSU one did it far too often, especially against OSU!
With PSU’s holes this year, the game being at the ‘Shoe, your having Pryor (let’s be honest here) and most of all with Heyward NOT turning pro (darn it!), I don’t think you have to worry too much about the PSU game. Not that it will be a cakewalk, but let’s be honest here….OSU is the better team this year on paper and most times it plays out that way on the field, too.
There were allegations that they outed a Michigan fan to his boss
Something along the lines that they didn’t like him trolling on their site so they tracked his ISP back to his employer and dropped a dime on his misuse of company time.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 4, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember that.
It was hilarious. No government action, or we coulda had a whole slew of constitutional violations.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
we also have to remember
that I dont think Penn State fans really care about the Rose Bowl as much as Ohio State or other Big Ten originals do. we get there and are happy because it means we are in a BCS game, thats about it. So for OSU fans, to be fair, beating a crappy Pac Ten team is a big deal because it was in the Rose Bowl. So i guess I understand that point.
I was wondering about that as well, the other day
PSU (and probably now Nebraska) just doesn’t deify the Rose Bowl quite the way the rest of the Big Ten does. I mean heck, we played in one of the first Rose Bowls ever, so it wasn’t like we were one of the teams in the country never really having the chance to make it there, and then we join the Big Ten and win it in our second year. It just doesn’t quite have the same mystique to us, I don’t think. Sure, it is great, and I guess I’d rather win that than most of the other bowls, but I usually find the Pac-10 non-USC representative to be rather meh.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I just realized . . .
. . . that we were in the Rose Bowl before Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State, Northwestern, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa. Awesome.
by BurrowesBldg on Aug 6, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention Alabama, Washington, Stanford, and, um, Pittsburgh.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
but we weren't the first team from PA to go :-(
nor the first to win :-(
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 6, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
Just look at the games before ’23. Cal v. Washington and Jefferson? Mare Island – USMC v. Camp Lewis – US Army?
Also, Cal only tied Washington and Jefferson because Jefferson saved some of the British children.
by BurrowesBldg on Aug 6, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Mare Island won, Corps superior to Army.
Really, how is that not worth bragging rights today?
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 7, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
this song will make you feel better
and i’m out
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/
Pryor Sobriety in 3 Easy Steps
1. October 25th, 2008
Highlights
2. Everyone does
Highlights Include: Killing people, murdering people, stealing from me and stealing from you
3. October 17th, 2009
Highlights include: turnovers galore and chewing out Sweatervest on the sideline after getting his panties in a wad.
So if you’re a diehard PSU-er who can’t get over the fact that we let OSU steal “LeBron in Cleats” out of our backyard, have your Doctor prescribe a healthy dose of Steps 1-3 and check back in the morning.
Oh yeah, don’t forget to change your adult diapers.
I certainly don't want to give them any more traffic...
…so I’ll do the lesser of two evils and link to the story that tBBC linked to directly.
Michael Shaw, of “I spurn PSU for Michigan” fame, is in whatever Paterno’s doghouse computes to in RichRod’s terms. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 (see above TP discussion), but I’ll never tire of hearing that kids that made 24th hour decisions to switch teams (be it from PSU or any other school (here’s looking at you Seantrel Henderson)) end up making a bad choice. I hope he gets his act together as a person, but I’m glad we have the RoysterGreenBeechumDukesRedd Monster instead of Michael Shaw.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
So I guess that no comment is a comment that he's not making his grades
"We’re still waiting on summer school, and we don’t comment on our guys academically," he said. "They still have two weeks of summer school left, for some of our players, so we’ll keep you in touch."
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 4, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree your comments were a bit infantile, given Rose Bowl victories are “the” carrot dangled to Big 10 teams and PUS has just the one since joining the league. Thank gawd that the players know to shut the “F” up and just play ball.
and PUS has just the one since joining the league
Compared to OSU’s two in the same time span? So if you’re keeping score at home, since 1993 Penn State is 1-1 while OSU is 2-0. That’s some rallying stick!
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 5, 2010 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I blame Bruce Snyder for using bump and run throughout the '97 game and then switching to a zone allowing OSU to easily march down the field.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Also: Never respond to someone who refers to Penn State as "PUS".
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
But he didn’t mention that, did he?
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 6, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The quality of this discussion is beneath us all
BBC seems to be willing to anything to generate content on their site. To that end, last I checked they had about 40 comments on the discussion thread. All of them trashing Penn State. One Penn State person participated, he was banned. IF you like, read through what PSUfan wrote, and take a guess if he’d have been banned here (hint – no chance in hell).
Afterwards, BBC had this to say;
Yes, I have his IP address. Bwahahahahahahaha, I have no cookie-cutter website overlords to stop me this time!!!!!!!!!
So yeah, this is who were debating. Joe Paterno has more class then these people with shit in his pants. I think it’s time everybody, myself included, take a page out of the old mans book and start ignoring this crap.
What do you say when you want a pretzel? MICHIGAN SUCKS!
by jesse. on Aug 5, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Let the record show
Nobody was banned in the 500 comment troll infested thread. You guys handled that marvelously.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries
I saw that. And I agree.
The rest of the stories were averaging 3-8 comments. But they sure do rally the horses when PSU is around. But we’re not rivals.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 5, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here, here
Joe Paterno has more class then these people with shit in his pants
Exhibit A:
http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/2010/8/2/1601957/joe-paterno-president-obama
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
Are you saying what I think your saying?
Wait, no politics here on The BSD.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 5, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure
did you think I was saying that Glen Thompson has nominated Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom? If so then, I guess yes. Not sure that’s political. Thompson the nomination (can’t find the link for where I read this part now) is for his dedication to eduation, Special Olympics, et al.
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
Here's a link to a better article
from The Collegian
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2010/08/03/thompson_nominates_paterno_for.aspx
Anyway, the gist wasn’t meant to have any political implication rather than to just back up the comment quoted in my original post/reply.
"the secret to loving your job is having a hobby that you really despise"
My mistake
I didn’t click on the link and only read as far as “joe-paterno-president-obama” analogy to the block quote inlcuded in your comment.
But yes, I believe Coach Paterno is highly deserving of the Medal of Freedom.
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 5, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused
by PSUfan’s banning. It looked to me that PSUfan was being oddly deferential to those knuckleheads and not remotely inflammatory, but the mod told him to “Calm down.” Am I missing something? Were posts by him deleted?
by Nittany Lawyer on Aug 5, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
there must have been deleted posts
because pretty much everything PSUfan was saying up until that point was fairly levelheaded, and even a little bit of praise of OSU.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
But why delete the post?
It would only prove their point to have the kid ranting up a storm.
What would Joe Paterno do?
Greatest signature yet.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That was my point,
even the slightest twinge of disagreement got him banned, then threatened. It’s beyond silly.
What would Joe Paterno do?
The Buckeye Battle Cry – Beyond Silly
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 5, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
no wonder they only had about 40 comments
would you want to comment on a blog where doing absolutely nothing besides not being a fanatical OSU fan could have the blogmaster report you to your IP to try to get you fired? Even if I were an OSU fan I’d be cautious about participating in debate there for fear of not slobbing Pryor’s knob enough.
On the other hand…is there any sort of legal issue with the misuse of IP addresses? It seems like there should be, but then again this is the internet, and the legislative system seems to be about 40 years behind technologically.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry
Going from recent discussions, it seems that Congress and the FCC are considering two foolproof solutions to the legislative system’s being 40 years behind: 1) Ban the internet, or 2) Use the internet to find more information about internet users. This information will then be stored in a basement somewhere in Langley, Virginia.
I still can’t believe the BBC was once involved with SBN.
"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Biased or unbiased...
They can say all they want but even if your a Buckeyes fan or not, Pryor just doesn’t look that great. He hasn’t lived up to the hype by any means. Now, I cannot argue that he did have big game against the Ducks, but one game won’t get you respect…even if it is the Rose Bowl. Hey, UofM has played a few decent games but crap is Rodriquez look awful in his decision to head to Ann Arbor or what? I am definitely not a football scout, I don’t look at the game the way they do, I’m just an average fan who loves the game. With that being said, I do love BigTen Football so I watch all the games I can get…ESPECIALLY Penn State. I just have not seen a game where Pryor has just been unstoppable. He has talent, cannot argue that, it’s just a DARN good thing he is in a good football program.
FYI, you want to talk pathetic in terms of reverting back to their old ways, stop talking JoePa has to go. The guy is an absolute legend. Who is going to walk into his office and say Joe, it’s time for you to go? Joe will go on his terms and his terms alone. I enjoy watching good football which usually means I enjoy watching most of the BigTen, but I hate it when their comments go that way. It’s just pathetic.
by Wags24 on Aug 5, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions
The Ducks didn't have
a very good secondary. Their best corner (Walter Thurmond III) was lost for the season against Cal. They gave up 41 points to UA, 36 points in a home game against Purdue, a whopping 51 points to Toby Gerhart and the Stanford Cardinal, and 33 points to Oregon State.
Finally, their defense gets shelled because Terrelle Pryor attempts more passes in a game than he ever has before, and because of some great work by the receivers, the gamble to have Pryor pass so many times pays off.
My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
Fire KP! He forgot to turn off injuries in dynasty mode. - by Norsktroll on BlazersEdge
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 5, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
Pryor gets all this praise for helping to put up 26 against Oregon, yet 4 other teams put up more points, and another 2 or 3 put up similar points.
Congrats, Pryor, your best game was basically average against that opponent. Here, come pick up your preseason OPOTY award.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 5, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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