Nitt Picks Contributes Nothing To Society
It doesn't matter what it's for, an $88 million contribution for anything is going to get people talking. While many in the athletic community are feeling warm and fuzzy over the announcement of funding for a new ice arena, not everyone is so enthused, namely some guy named Oren M. Spiegler from Upper St. Clair in the Daily Collegian's opinion page this morning.
What a glorious day it would have been if Pennsylvanians had been able to read one of the following headlines: "Philanthropists donate $88 million to ensure sound footing for Pennsylvania public libraries for years to come" or "Philanthropists establish $88 million fund to ensure that all qualified students will be able to attend a university."
By endorsing and devoting such a mammoth amount of money to a violent sport, which contributes nothing to society, some would consider the donation being made to have been squandered. It is sad that a family like the Pegulas is contributing to a society in decline.
Rhetoric like that has the potential to get pretty political, so let's try to avoid that, but I think the issue of big donations for sports is something that should be addressed.
If this summer of expansion has taught us anything, it's that college athletics is big business. It's about, as Adam Rittenberg likes to say, "branding." Enhancing the athletic brand enhances the academic brand. That's why applications surge after a good football season. That's why things like whiting out Madison Square Garden for the NIT get people in a hub east coast city excited about the university. For as intelligent as those in the academic community like to think they are, they're pretty out of touch if they can't see that their own job security is inextricably linked to athletic success.
If the Pegulas' donation leads to greater exposure for college hockey though the Big Ten Network or maybe even some national institutions like ESPN or VS., that means greater exposure for Penn State and ultimately, it's academic profile, which is obviously the most important thing.
Redzone
Jay Paterno addressed Penn State's redzone troubles by saying the coaches will be freeing things up for Robert Bolden in the near future.
"Knowing that we have three points in our hip pocket, you want to be careful that you don’t put him in a situation where a blitz gets to him and all of a sudden the ball is on the ground," Jay Paterno said. "But now that he’s done some things in the clutch, we’ll open some things up as we go forward."
Perhaps more important than that, though, to improving Penn State's play deep in their opponents' territory will be developing freshmen tight ends Kevin Haplea and Garry Gilliam into respectable pass catching options. If there's one thing that this Penn State offense clearly doesn't have that that last year's did, it's pass catching tight ends like Mickey Shuler and Andrew Quarless. Brett Brackett has stepped in at tight end a few times, but considering he's hardly a desirable run blocker, packages that include him at tight end can really sell out passing downs. Gilliam and Haplea don't need to be Shuler and Quarless, but they need to start contributing something in the passing game to keep opposing defenses honest in the middle of the field.
Sukay Shines
Perhaps one of the more maligned figures on the defense early this season was safety Nick Sukay. However, after two picks in Saturday's win over Temple, it looks like he's beginning to get on track at the perfect time heading into the Big Ten season.
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That 88 Million might not keep a library open
but it might allow some kid to get a high class college education on a hockey scholarship so he can go out into the world and be a productive member of society.
And you can download books these days. So suck it.
Um...
PA’s budget for libraries is about $54 million. I think $88 million would keep several open. But if that dude wants to fund a hockey program, it’s his money.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 27, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey downfall of Roman Empire, historians say.
NOBODY BELIEVES IN US! Mainly because we're not that good, but still!
Beat Iowa.
Yeah
Nothing epitomizes the weakness of the Romans quite like the Colosseum.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Sep 27, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard Lake Trasimene was but a strengthening point…
Cannae bounced right off their skin…
Maybe Koa Misi and Jared Odrick would be Patriots if Bill Parcells wasn't Comedic.Sans's father...
"I looked at BN once. I got banned." -the immortal words of JShufelt
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Sep 27, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think the people who knock college athletics
greatly overlook the type of people the structure and team environment of the programs create. I would be interested to see if the average student had the dedication to handle the schedule that the student athletes must.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
Damn. That title had me hoping for some old school Kramer.
WHY DON’T YOU DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR LIFE!
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Sep 27, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Pegula is a selfish bastard
He gave away 1.8% of his $4.8 billion estate to a hockey team. I’m sure he spent the rest on boats, cars, and grottos and did nothing else to benefit society.
Wow. That sure puts it in perspective.
I try to give when I can, especially to THON when I see canners. But I doubt I’ve ever donated 1% of my earnings, let alone 2%.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Sep 27, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave a 20 spot to canners one time while I was unemployed
I doubt that was 1% of my worth but their excitement alone made me feel good. Then I realized I didn’t have any money to pay for the Chik-fil-a I had originally gone to get before seeing the canners. That made me feel hungry.
Here's my problem with THON
Lately it seems like the message has gone from “Help the kids!” to “Help us set a new record!”
That’ll probably piss a lot of people off to hear me say that. Whatever.
by BSD on Sep 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've heard worse said
Though I will make the point, as long as the money goes to who its supposed to, what difference does it make?
It doesn't really. Its just that sometimes in this case
people make it more about themselves than the cause which is annoying. In the end, its a wonderful wonderful cause and THON is a great service.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.
That usually the problem I had with it
some people laud themselves over it and act like they are better for doing it, when that’s not what its about at all. But if it gets them to go out and get money for people who need it, then so be it.
That's my issue
I have no idea where that money goes. Does it go to hospitals? Does it go to the families? Does it go to some drug company so they can use it to fund research and turn a profit? I just don’t understand it.
Not saying I wouldn’t give money to THON. I have in the past, but I wouldn’t make it my primary charity.
and...
every frat/sorority house seems to lay claim to “raised the most money for THON”.
I don’t think it should be used as a personal selling point for your greek agenda.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 27, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe easing any concerns you might have...
“The Fund offsets the cost of treatment that insurance does not cover, as well as expenses that may disrupt the welfare of the child. The Fund supports the medical team that cares for the children and funds pediatric cancer research through start-up grants and the Four Diamonds Pediatric Cancer Research Institute.”
http://www.thon.org/whatisthon/4d
When I was a freshman, the competition aspect used to bother me a bit as well. As I got involved with Thon, I came to the conclusion that I didn’t particularly care. I don’t care whether people wore LiveStrong bands as a “fashion statement.” That fashion statement still supported cancer research and care. Worth it, even if it’s not done in good faith.
by Adam Collyer on Sep 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Four Diamonds Fund
Sorry to hear some folks felt coerced to participate in THON. I volunteered as a non-Greek student for six years and had an amazing experience.
Just for the sake of providing some more information, THON benefits the Four Diamonds Fund. It truly is an amazing program that has kept many a family from going bankrupt while simply trying to help their children beat cancer. It pays for anything insurance does not cover, such as travel expenses and rent. It has also funded endowments, research, doctors, and buildings. And, as has been discussed on here in the past, its admin expenses are incredibly low for a charity – in 2009, 94.6% of everything raised went directly to the Fund. Compare that to national charities that spend 20% on fundraising.
THON and the Four Diamonds Fund has made a difference in the lives of a lot of people in central PA and beyond. It is something the PSU community should be proud of.
Phil
I agree.
I was Greek during my undergraduate years. To say my house didn’t like Thon would have been a gross understatement. When I danced in 2006, a close friend and I partnered and raised enough money ourselves to dance independently during the last year in Rec Hall. It was one of the best experiences of my entire life. I consistently refer to it as the best 3-day weekend of college. OSU ’05 and Nebraska ’02 are second and third going away.
by Adam Collyer on Sep 27, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Penn State should be proud of it. I try to give to it when I think about it, but THON usually sneaks up on me. I don’t run into canners here in Texas. But even when I did live in PA, I could never tell if the people standing on the corner really had a heart to help kids with cancer, or if they were just out there because their sorority told them they had to. The competition aspect of THON turns me off, and now I feel like there is this push to set a new record every year. If they don’t meet last year’s total it’s going to be perceived as a failure.
I bet Jerry Lewis feels the same way.
But regardless of the motives, whether it is competition or compassion, movie is being raised for a good cause. That is generally enough in my book.
by VVeRPennState on Sep 27, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya
But if I don’t get the sense someone’s heart is in it, they aren’t getting my money. For all I know that Frat guy is going to take all the money people drop in his can on Friday and go buy a keg of beer for that night.
It’s cold and cynical to say that, but if someone is out there because they are told they have to be and not because they want to be, I can’t trust their motives. Sorry.
I made this argument before
And I took some major flak for it. Tread carefully Mike, some people will flip out on this one.
Case in point, I ran an organization at one of the branch campuses a few years ago and was told if donations were not made and time wasn’t spent canning my club would feel the wrath.
Why can’t I donate money to March Of Dimes? IMO it’s just as important as someone that almost died as a new born by being born close to 10 weeks early and spent a while in the incubator.
Good point
If you are giving and working for charity because you feel threatened if you don’t, you are giving for the wrong reason and not getting the benefit of giving to charity.
Exactly
My canning outside of Walmart in the freezing cold so my club and the members wouldn’t get put on double-secret probation was reason #1.
And what’s sad is before I went to PSU I remember giving to Thon and thinking how cool it would be to be a part of it.
It was not sarcastic.
Pegula is a rich man, so his giving number is obviously skewed. But my point is that its difficult to give that much money with rent/mortgage, loan payments, etc. I should give more, but I don’t give near as much as Pegula. I wonder how much Oren Spiegler gives each year.
10%? That’s quite impressive. What’s your main charity, if you don’t mind me asking? Aside from THON, I can’t NOT donate to Susan Komen.
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Sep 27, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Mostly to our church
The church then sponsors missions to help people in need. Then we make small donations here and there. I usually give some money to Lift for Life. When a big event like Katrina or Haiti come up we’ll usually donate to that. We also sponsor a child through Compassion International, which is an excellent charity. For just $40 a month you can provide a third world child with food, clothing and education. And you sponsor a real child that you can exchange letters and pictures with. Really makes you feel like you are making a difference when they send you letters telling you how much they appreciate you and what you do for them. We also use it as a good tool to help our boys understand how priviledged we are to live in this country. I highly recommend it if you are looking for an easy way to make a difference in someone’s life. $40 a month is nothing.
My wife and I have a heart for the less fortunate in the world. We always keep our eyes and ears open for ways to help the less fortunate. And we both feel like if giving doesn’t sting a little bit, you’re not giving enough. We are too blessed to not give in this country.
That being said, I’ll never donate to breast cancer again. I sent them a check for $25 one time, and they badgered me relentlessly over the telephone for more money. They called me every single day. No matter how many times I yelled into the phone to stop calling me, they kept calling.
That's very admirable.
I usually donate to THON canners and participate in runs for various cancer events. I lost a close relative to cancer a few years ago, and I hate to sound like a hypocrite for not being as concerned about it before, but that sort of loss will really chance your perspective on everything. For some things like skin and colon cancer, its all about awareness since they are so preventable.
I totally agree that people can be rude when asking for donations. I was walking around Old City Philly with my wife (who is a doctor) and this person was trying to get us to donate to Doctors without Borders. A noble cause indeed, but I was not comfortable giving away my personal information on the street and i preferred to do an over the phone donation. They kept trying to talk us out of it, got very rude and belligerent and eventually I had to just blow them off.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 27, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone is interested
This is the website for Compassion International. Again, great charity. Just $40 a month you can save someone’s life.
Please tell me that all the RoTel money went to charity...
Only giving away $7.50 just sounds dirty.
"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation
by leeharvey418 on Sep 27, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And in fact
Every one of those ad posts I do from now on, the header will say “This Post Sponsored by ABC”, and the footer will say “BSD Proceeds from this ad will go to XYZ Charity.”
I don’t really want the small amount of money those ads bring in due to the reputation hit the blog takes. So that money will be going to charity from now on.
by BSD on Sep 27, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good thing, too
The next one would have brought up a discussion of the fair market value of your soul.
"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation
by leeharvey418 on Sep 27, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well,
leaving yourself 98% of your wealth probably doesn’t leave you with over 4.7 billion dollars.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 27, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I get your point, but I don't completely agree with this.
It is possible to give away large sums or percentages of money and still be a self-glorifying asshole. It can be an act — “Look everyone, at how selfless I am!” — and is epitomized by people like Oprah Winfrey, who are really spending that money on social goodwill in a very public arena. Donating anonymously maximizes one’s selflessness. But that doesn’t seem like it was an option for Mr. Pegula; everyone would have known it was him regardless.
We should address the obvious
The op ed writer sounds like one of those types that believes sports like hockey, football, and boxing appeal to only knuckle-dragging cavemen and that physical contact sports amounts to blood sport.
These type of people try to elevate their own cultural status by painting these sports and their fans with such a broad brush, and they in return become hypocrites by being so closed minded and irrational.
McGloin Despite Them
Preaching the McGospel since Aug. 2nd, 2010
88 Million Dollars...
In an account that turns off 6% interest per year could send approximately 175 kids to Penn State on a full ride scholarship, per year, without ever invading principal.
Just sayin’.
Beat Iowa.
Yeah,
good luck getting more than 80 basis points right now.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 27, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
88,000,000 at two percent interest generates a return on investment of $6,805,000. That’s assuming that the earnings are taked at the standard capital gains rate (which I bet they aren’t) Divided by $25,000 that’s 272 full rides, give or take, on an interest rate that you can almost get out of a standard CD.
Beat Iowa.
I didn't check the calculator,
but 6.8 is a hell of a lot more than 2% of 88. Care to revise those numbers?
"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation
by leeharvey418 on Sep 27, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Check the calculator first
Run it at 2% for 1 year with 15% tax and adjust it for inflation. Figure out what I did wrong. I just did it again.
Beat Iowa.
That's all well and good,
But all it does is prove that that calculator isn’t for the question at hand. $88,000,000 in a simple-interest account with an APY of 2% would give you [88000000 × 1.02 = ] $89,760,000 at the end of one year.
"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation
by leeharvey418 on Sep 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I caught my mistake.
I ran the calculation at 88 million, then sutracted it from 80 million. So that’s a mistake on my end.
So at 2% APY, a prepostersously low interest rate, 70 kids, give or take, would get a full ride scholarship (at 25K) every single year without invading principal.
Beat Iowa.
A little better
But mother of god, where are you getting 2% right now for that kind of money that’s totally insured? And is available to access the interest every year(i assume the school makes sure the fund settles up on the schollies every year)?
I just did the fixed income portion of a trust at 72mm and it took months to get over 1.25% (without any stupid maintanence and administration fees).
And 25k? That seems low for a scholarship.
Now, that won’t be the case forever, the rates will come back. But by then scholarships will be 100k/year.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 27, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
In state tuition is presently $16,276 per year.
If you wanted to fully endow a Penn State scholarship, the cost would is $300,000, which would require an annual return on on investment of about 5.6%. More if you factor in the cost of room and board.
I doubt that “zero risk” is the investment strategy, and that if you are the guy managing the 88 million dollar gift you are fired as hell the first time you only bring back a 2% return. I’m dead certain that these funds are aggressively managed in order to maximize returns with acceptable risk on the theory that you win more than you lose in the market.
The point is that depending on numerous financial factors, which I’m sure you have a better understanding of than I do, you could educate literally thousands of kids, for free, without ever touching the pricipal.
Beat Iowa.
Wow, I guess I forgot what a bargain my education was.
And yeah, I am a complete moron. I was thinking that your returns need to be accessible to settle up on scholarships yearly, as opposed to just have your fixed income accessible. Actuarially, you would get an asumed 6% from around 50/50 equity/FI, which is pretty conservative. So yeah, 6% is not such a big deal. If you knew how close this was to what I do for a living (almost exact same thing), you would be truly frightened by that mistake. So we’ll keep that a secret.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 28, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, let's leave at this...
It’s a pretty advanced conversation about actuarial returns on investment for a football blog.
Beat Iowa.
by jesse. on Sep 28, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He should have donated the money to me. What a selfish jerk.
"That's why you don't play! 'Cuz you're no good!" -Joe Paterno
I've been eventhing BUT
a supporter of Sukay this season. Richardson is a great back, but Nick allowed so many yards after contact in that game. He bit HARD on the long touchdown pass during the Youngstown State game as well as a few other mistakes. He looked better yesterday, but I’m not quite sold yet. I still think he leaves too much cushion and is looking for the BIG hit. I’m excited for what the B10 schedule brings and am praying for plentiful StanziBalls next weekend!
Lastly… Sukay should practice his pronunciation of ‘emphasizing’ (reference: post game interview on gopsf).
by P the S out of U on Sep 27, 2010 3:48 PM EDT reply actions
*Pulls out soapbox*
Mr. Spiegler’s comments are quite short-sighted. He claims that the money is for a violent sport that contributes nothing to society. Passing over the fact that NCAA hockey is much less “violent” than the NHL, he has obviously never heard of the many charities and positive deeds that the hockey players, teams, and organizations create and promote. (Note: I’m not trying to leave out the Pens fans, as I know Lemieux has set up a great organization for cancer research following his own battles with Hodgkin’s lymphoma. The link to that website, however, isn’t working for me…)
Furthermore, the money is going towards a new rink, which will not be used solely for hockey. The expectation is to host an assortment of programs and events like the Penn State Figure Skating clubs and events, professional ice shows, exhibition NHL/AHL games, and public skating sessions. Here are opportunities for kids and college students to be engaged in extra-curricular activities (which has shown to help increase academic performance), or to give parents and children another bonding experience. I’ll never forget the day I met the parents of one of the freshman Icers, and on that day, their son scored his first goal as an Icer. They way they light up and cheered will remain as one of the greatest experiences I’ve ever had at Penn State. These moments and experiences can be just as important to the development of our society as a large donation of money.
As for the men and women who do play for the varsity hockey teams here, what’s not to say that these players won’t give back later in life. What if this chance to play on scholarship at a top notch institute of learning is the opportunity they need to become successful in some facet of their lives, allowing them to give back to the University and/or community at large? I guess the efforts and support from other alumni isn’t enough proof that Penn State alumni from all areas are willing to give back to their Alma Mater and their community.
Mr. Spiegler seems to have the right intentions, but his comments are narrow and short-sighted. This money is going towards much more than a “violent sport.” It’s going towards opportunities for students to become engaged in their learning; to build community within and between families, friends, and strangers; and to perhaps lay the groundwork for bigger philanthropic ventures to come. All things in time, good sir.
* Puts away soapbox *
Designated "New Thread Is Up" guy.
by IcersGuy on Sep 27, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
That guys point was lost the second he said "violence" and "contributes nothing to society"
But man, you could do a lot with 88 million dollars, it’s hard to argue that Ice Arena is the best possible use of the money. Not saying it’s not a good one, but it could certainly be put to more idealistic uses. It’s his money though, so he gets to do with it whatever he wants.
Beat Iowa.
I agree completely
There are better uses, but it’s his money, and this is how he wanted to give back. It was that whole “doomed us all” sentiment that got to me.
Designated "New Thread Is Up" guy.
A question then -
Let’s say that the Pegulas’ were to put up an endowment that was intended to pay whatever number of scholarships we’d be allowed for both a men’s and women’s hockey team? Even if that weren’t allowed under NCAA rules, they could still create academic scholarships in equal number to those already being provided through two varsity sports. Would that make everything square in your book?
"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation
by leeharvey418 on Sep 27, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it isn't "square"
I’m just trying to point out that it’s a titanic sum of money, that could do a fair number of things. When you give 88 million dollars, you want some bang for your buck, a hockey arena is great, but is that better than 100 kids a year going to school for free, forever? Or in the alternative, what’s better a hockey arena or 1.9 million dollars a year forever [and it’s at least twice that amount]?
Beat Iowa.
Amen
People look at athletic donations like a waste of money that could be better used scholastically. But in effect, the money is paying for an arena so PSU can field a Div-1 team and provide SCHOLARSHIPS so that kids can get an education. What’s wrong with that?
It's all about estate planning.
What I’d love to know are the specifics of this donation. Is it a lump sum? Doubtful. Is it a yearly-giving amount? Perhaps. Is it a promise to give at or after death with estate tax-charitable deduction consequence? Intriguing.
Remember that in 2011, the federal estate tax jumps to 55% for folks like this. Assuming our Congress continues to spin its wheels, this is a very prudent move: why let the federal government take and mismanage when Penn State can take and manage.
Spiegler
The Spiegler passage is at best tone deaf and short-sighted, but it’s the kind of hyperbole that makes easy opinion page fodder (and becomes more likely to become fodder for public “discourse,” which can often be a race to the bottom).
What he’s done is frame an ethical argument as a moral one. Rather than discussing competing goods, he’s simplified libraries as “good” and hockey as “bad” (something that “contributes nothing”). As IcersGuy has diligilently explained above, that’s simply untrue.
However, resting on the assumption that anything that strenghtens a university’s “brand,” or betters its bottom line is unequivocally “good” is almost as dangerous a simplification. Certainly, one of the primary goals of a university is to strengthen education and intellectual discourse, and those things — particularly in the short term — are not necessarily in line with economic gain and/or a marketing edge. That kind of gain is not always an unalloyed good. Increased enrollment, even, is not necessarily a good thing. I won’t presume to know how funds really affect Penn State, but I’ve seen such assumptions proven false, in some ways, at Alabama.
The discussion of the proper role of athletics within academics is one worth having. Spiegler, however, has contributed nothing to it.
Best comment on this thread
It’s a complicated discussion, and boiling it down to black and white is ineffective.
If I were donating $88 million to the university, I probably would not have gone the same route as Pegula. There are plenty of research facilities on campus in need of an upgrade and/or majors and programs that need entirely new buildings to begin with. Of course, I’m not anywhere near donating $88 million to the university. It’s Pegula’s money, and he can do with it as he wishes.
The new ice arena and hockey team makes Penn State a cooler place to go to school, but not necessarily a better one. It is, as BSD mentions above, making it possible for a number of students to go to school at a presitigious university while playing a sport that will provide valuable recreation to the student body.
I’m excited about Penn State hockey; I wish we had it when I was on campus. I think overall, it’s a positive for the environment of the school, but who knows if the increase in “brand awareness” will trickle down to the academic programs. I’m fairly certain that studies have been done that show little to no connection between athletic success and academic ranking. I’m sure there are plenty of studies that prove to be inconclusive.
In short, we don’t really know nothin’.
by Adam Collyer on Sep 27, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
People can spend
Money how they wish to, but I I’ve had visions and dreams of winning the mega millions and buying the comp sci department a fancy new building with super computers
Agreed. If I was a billionaire and was looking to donate money,
mine would go to the Health Policy and Administration department because that’s where my interest and loyalty is. I think it’s presumptuous (and wrong) of this guy to question a private donation. I think Speigler and others who try to place value judgements on Pegula’s contributions. Everything has opportunity costs, but that doesn’t mean that you can say that X number of academic scholarships are better than X number of athletic scholarships. Even the arena is a community resource.
For the glory
Except there's an incomplete sentence in there.
One of my students stopped by in the middle of my post. What I meant to say was, “I think Speigler and others who try to place value judgements on Pegula’s contributions don’t understand economics (or economic theory). Everything has opportunity costs, etc., etc.”
For the glory
yeah i agree
if a guy wants to give PSU his money who is this guy to complain about where he donates it right?
I would fund graduate student stipends and professorship chairs
I mean, if your goal is to generate exciting new CS research. Good professors, at least those at a place like Penn State, will win money for the equipment they need themselves. In fact the quantity and kinds of grants they’re awarded is a good indicator of a CS professor’s reputation.
Applications are a good thing, though
I’d agree when you say an increase enrollment might not be a good thing, but I think getting more applications is definitely a good thing. Larger pool=better students, right?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Sep 27, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Spiegler's letter really pisses me off
“It might as well have contributed $88 million to opening bars throughout the commonwealth.”
Really? That’s a little much Oren.
Congratulations and thank you to the Pegula’s. Its contributions like this that make Penn State as great as it is.
Wasn't as much fanfare about this one,
But Kerry Collins recently endowed the scholarship for the QB position at PSU.
I'll check the media guide when I get home, but something like that.
And people that wanna say “well, that’s a drop in the bucket for Kerry Collins”
I have a feeling these folks’ pedestals may get a little shorter once the pen and check are in hand and the zeros keep going on and on. Its a lot of money I don’t care who you are.
I hate that drop in the bucket argument
Kerry Collins is in pretty good shape because he has been in the league forever. However, he is still going to be unemployed in a year or two. Hence, it’s a lot of freaken money.
Agreed
Everyone thinks that the guy with one more dollar than them can afford anything they want and that it’s all a “drop in the bucket”
No it’s not, and mo money equals mo expenses.
At the current rate
all NFL players will be unemployed in a few months. But your point is still valid either way.
Designated "New Thread Is Up" guy.
He actually gave $250,000
within his first two years in the league. Interesting to see if this was in addition to that gift….
by Tailgate Shogun on Sep 27, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, $88M to open bars? That would be AWESOME!!!!
Sign me up for that, please.
by Tailgate Shogun on Sep 27, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
A quick rant.
I always find it strange how people view sports. For most universities (and high schools for that matter), sports is simply a part of the extended curriculum. For these institutions, the sports department isn’t that different from the drama, music, or even philosophy department. The operating expenses are taken directly from the school budget and in return they enrich the students’ lives. And while most students involved in these departments won’t find a long lived career in these fields, they still teach important lessons from dedication and hard work to critical thinking and creativity. Most of the population has no problem when the above beliefs are applied to the Ivy League. But when we start talking about Penn State (or any other profitable athletic department), suddenly the discussion changes to how the money could be "put to better use."
It's a reasonable point.
It’s really a matter of degree, though. “Better use” is obviously in the mind of the beholder; in my mind, Penn State athletics is doing exceptionally well. We fund more sports than the vast majority of universities and offer opportunities for both men and women to succeed at a Division 1 level. Likewise, our club sports programs are vibrant and successful. The Icers is such a squad.
With or without Division 1 hockey, Penn State athletics is strong. So the question is really one of value – does the athletic department need the money to fund a new arena and two new teams, or will that money be put to better use for academic pursuits?
If Penn State was in danger of cutting sports without a major donation, then that money would be “put to good use” by funding the athletic department. Sports do enrich students’ lives and teach important lessons about dedication, hard work, ciritcal thinking and creativity. But so do well-funded CompSci, HPA, or Political Science/Government programs. And many people might be more inclined to make a substantial donation to those programs, if they are able.
But again, it’s Pegula’s money, he can do what he wants. And we’re all benefitting out of the deal either way. But it’s worth having a discussion about the donation’s actual value.
by Adam Collyer on Sep 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Actual value is the return on investment,
which you can quantify in terms of number of scholarships, revenue created by the facility (if any), and other direct benefits gleaned from the donation’s purposes. What you are really talking about are the opportunity costs associated with donating $88 million to ice hockey. I don’t think it’s right to put a moral judgement on those opportunity costs, but you do have to recognize that they exist. Again, who is to say that one use is better than the other?
For the glory
Sure.
I should clarify that I didn’t mean to use the term “actual value” as a technical term. We are, of course, talking about moral values and judgments. I think we can all agree that Pegula has the right to do exactly what he wants with his money and that there is an actual, quantifiable value attached to his donation. It’s still appropriate to debate the “moral” value of the gift and it’s similar value in relation to something else. We debate morality all the time in every facet of life, so while there is no “right” answer (some people will value his contribution more than others), I don’t see why it would be exempt.
I’m happy to see this post commented on repeatedly. The Penn Staters on this blog are certainly showing the value of their education!
by Adam Collyer on Sep 27, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was speaking in my psuedo-economist terms.
There are always opportunity costs and people will make moral judgments that are subjective in nature about those opportunity costs (I realize I have been misspelling judgment – it didn’t look right and I was too lazy to spell check in Word). The same arguments are made in pubilc finance/policy. If we spend more on defense, eduction, health care, etc., that’s less than we are spending on other areas. People base their support on spending based on their own priorities/values. That doesn’t mean that anyone has the right answer. The one thing about private donations compared to the public sector is that a person has the right to spend his money any damn way he pleases (you acknowledge this, I’m not debating you, just making the point that we’ve all made).
Spiegler can question all he wants the best way to spend that money (even if he is an ass), but it’s a moo point. If he’s so concerned, why doesn’t he go out and earn billions of dollars so that he can donate to public libraries, etc. rather than questioning someone else’s gift?
For the glory
How much is Oren shelling out for the public libraries
Dude needs to shut his yap and get to work supporting his causes. As for Peluga, how do we know where he’s putting the rest of his billions and why do we have a right to criticize his choices?
Spiegler is a blowhard.
The guy writes letters to the editor incessantly. There was even a story about his letter writing in the paper a couple of years ago (I’ll see if I can find it). I stopped reading his letters about 3 years ago, not because I agreed or disagreed with his viewpoints, but just because I’m sick of hearing from the guy. It’s nice to write an occasional letter, but one has to be careful not to hit the “Oh, it’s just this guy again” point. Oren is WAY past that point.
Other prolific letter writers that I can recall off the top of my head….Janet Louise Martin (East Liberty) – that woman was a racist and had a HUGE racial chip on her shoulder….Al Matlack (Carnegie and later State College)….always wrote sports letters. And there was one more whose name escapes me who also always wrote sports letters. Haven’t heard from any of these three in a long while….they may very well be dead.
Anyway, ignore Spiegler. He’s one of those guys who loves to see his letters in print. Here is the article about him.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_558536.html
Well he can fanpost like the rest of the community
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Sep 27, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
An outsiders opinion. It’s his money. How dare someone tell him what to do with it. This is, after all, America (insert Otter’s Animal House speech), and if someone was opining to the letter writer guy what he should do with his charitable contributions, I’m pretty sure we know how that would go. Anyway, he got what he wanted all along – attention.
Best part?
Dude didn’t even go to Penn State.
by Tailgate Shogun on Sep 27, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
Sports "Good" - Eggheads "Bad"
I think most of us agree Spiegler is living a different reality.
Like the commercial says, “There are 100,000 NCAA athletes, and 98% will go pro in something other than sports.” Sports are good for kids. Compared to their neighborhood peer-group, most kids do better academically and socially if they are involved in sports. (It’s like the arts only better for your health!) Which colleges and universities in the U.S. field the largest number of varsity teams? The Ivy League schools, that’s who. Why? Because they know the value of college athletics (and can afford it!). If Joe Paterno’s Grand Experiment hasn’t taught this Spiegler guy anything in the last 50 years, well, that’s his loss. I for one would love to see PSU add another two or three varsity sports so we can top the Ivies on that “list.” Kudos to the Pegulas!
REMEMBER THE BRYCE JORDAN CENTER COMMENTS?
I can recall the “Academic Reactionaries” complaining about the $150 or $250 million or so being INVESTED to build the BJC back a few years ago.
“Spend the money on student tuitions!”
“Spend the money hiring more/better professors!”
“Feed the Starving Japanese!”
No thought at all to the six or seven hundred jobs permanently created directly by the facility.
No consideration of the economic benefit locally because the place is a major entertainment and sports venue.
Just venom and jealousy.
PSU is not spending this money. PSU is investing it.
This is an infrastructure investment that is going to make Happy Valley a richer, happier place for many decades to come.
Those Mooyaks can go ice fishing in Nova Scotia.
We’ll skate at the Pegula Center, and say THANK YOU!
Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!
by joefromboalsburg on Sep 27, 2010 8:50 PM EDT reply actions
What jumps out at me immediately...
1) Private money is the past, present, and future of sports at all levels. Sports contribute a lot to society (like funneling dollars into local and statewide economies), and they especially contribute a lot to colleges. Universities make a boatload of cash on merchandising, broadcasting, and ticket sales, not to mention just plain old donations, many of which stem from athletic performance. Even at my alma mater, a tiny private college in Kansas, there’s an understanding that athletics improve awareness of the school and have a demonstrable positive impact on donations schoolwide. And even if all those donations go straight to the athletic program, they are de facto donations to the general fund, because they free up money to be used elsewhere.
2) Hockey’s not a violent sport. I’m all for a more intellectual, considered society, but calling hockey a violent sport simply shows that the person doesn’t grasp the activity. It also, along with the “contributing nothing to society” remark, betrays the real reason for the disdain; this guy just doesn’t like sports, and thinks they’re juvenile, and wants to get rid of them all. He sees sports as pointless, meaningless, with no socially redeeming qualities and no productive value. Of course, he is correct. But he probably, from the tone of his remarks, watches opera and reads books; these things also are, in the strictest sense, pointless and meaningless, with no socially redeeming qualities or productive value. Almost anything that is fun or enjoyable to anybody could be described that way. It doesn’t make any of those things unimportant. I enjoy sports; I also enjoy opera and books. This guy’s snooty pretension to intellectual authority ends up being small-minded childishness.
3) What always gets lost in this dichotomy is that the family is probably wealthy enough to do both kinds of donations. He’s right; public libraries, universal access to higher education, effective public transportation, accessible and available health care, lower food costs, environmental protections, more employment opportunities, and a thousand other concerns are equally important as, if not more important than, an ice hockey arena. Rich people shouldn’t be choosing one or the other. A society with great entertainment but crappy standards of living is obviously flawed; a society with great standards of living but no entertainment is just as flawed.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 27, 2010 9:33 PM EDT reply actions
I like the idea...
Of us having D1 hockey programs and a new ice facility. Therefore, it is the best use of the money. I’m glad he didn’t do some boring crap with it like “help people” or whatever… lame.
by AreWeGoodThisYear? on Sep 28, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
That Explains It
Spiegler is a administrator for the state government. The only thing he knows is how to do is spend other peoples’ money. Now that public sector jobs are almost double in pay and benefits to private sector jobs, I wonder how much he is willing to give back to those that actual pay his salary. My guess if nothing. Typical taker mentality. I have a right to tell those that actual produce money what they have to do with it, including paying me more. Help balance the state budget before your open your mouth again, Mr. Spiegler.
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment

Thank you.
Now, if I felt strongly enough to email a letter to the editor, I’d be sure to put my money where my mouth is. I’d mention the various departments to which I myself have donated. I’d remind people that you don’t have to give a lot of money; one thousand people donating $50 can endow an undergraduate scholarship. (Seriously, living in PA means you don’t have to pay $6.95/month for the BTN, so give it up, USC guy.) I probably wouldn’t mention the library and complain about violent sports because the Paterno Library was not funded by the coach of the Scrabble team. Finally, I wouldn’t be a complete jerk about the whole thing, but just take the opportunity to remind people that you can donate to Penn State academics, too.
So, in conclusion, one whiner does not change the fact that William and Joan Schreyer are still cooler than the other side of the pillow.
The cost is $300,000 to endow an undergraduate scholarship.
I believe the cost is $50,000 to have a partial schilarship named after you. I wonder if that is a worthy undertaking for the members of our community.
Beat Iowa.
Hmmm.....BlackShoDiaries Scholarship fund?
Interesting.
Black Shoes. Basic Blues. No Name. All Game.

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