Joe Paterno Will Coach In 2011
by BSD on Jan 9, 2011 3:11 PM EST
in Football
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PrintFriday was "the meeting" that Joe Paterno has every year with athletic director Tim Curley and Penn State president Graham Spanier where the men discuss the season and the direction of the program going forward. A lot of Penn State fans are hoping this would be the year where Spanier and Curley put pressure on Paterno to finally hang it up and let someone else lead the program. Well, a lot of Penn State fans are going to be disappointed because all three men agreed that Joe Paterno will return to coach in 2011.
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—Joe Paterno has met with Penn State President Graham Spanier and athletic director Tim Curley for their annual end-of-season review.
Bill Mahon, a spokesman for Spanier, said Saturday night the trio had an "excellent discussion" Friday about the status of the football program, and that the 84-year-old Paterno did indeed plan to coach next season.
Speculation around Joe Paterno has been swirling all season long. It started in August when he showed up to the BIg Ten media day looking pale and weak. Since then every public appearance has been picked apart. How did he look? What did he say? Some days he looked sharp and refreshed. Other days he looked tired and confused.
A few weeks ago when "the email" was floating around claiming Paterno has stomach cancer and suffering mini-strokes and he was planning to step down after the Outback Bowl, my wife asked me what I thought was going to happen. I told her then that Paterno clearly said before the Michigan State game that he planned to return.
Q. Joe, do you plan to return as coach next season?
COACH PATERNO: Yeah, why you got something I don't know? No, I am looking forward to it. I think we've struggled a little bit this year, with the youth and with the injuries and the whole bit.We're not where I would like us to be yet. But, I think with a good spring and a pre-season practice, we could be a pretty good football team next year, and I'd like to be part of it.
So who was I to doubt the man? With all of the speculation running around the message boards, right there was the most credible source right in front of us.
Paterno's contract expires at the end of the 2011 season. Normally, this is the time when contract extensions occur so the athletic department can show confidence in the coach and his staff. This is critical when you are recruiting kids and asking them to commit the next four years of their lives to your coach and program. However, Paterno has coached without a contract before so it's not as big a deal at Penn State. Besides, I think even most high school kids are smart enough to realize the chances of Joe Paterno being around to shake their hand on senior day are pretty slim.
So for now it appears Paterno will be back in 2011, but things could still change. Rumors are flying about Tom Bradley interviewing for the vacant jobs at Pitt and UConn. If Scrap is fortunate enough to land one of those jobs, he could very well take a few Penn State assistants with him. A mass exodus of young assistant coaches could be enough to make Paterno let go. He has often said his big concern was the fate of his assistant coaches. If Bradley took Larry Johnson Sr., Mike McQueary, and Ron Vanderlinden with him that would create a big rebuilding project for Paterno. If he retired, Galen Hall and Dick Anderson would certainly join him, so that would only leave a small handful of assistant coaches without a place to land. However, one of them would be his own son, Jay. But Jay is young enough he would surely find a job somewhere. Besides, getting away from Penn State might actually be good for his career.
But for now, it appears the JoePa haters will have to dig in and stick it out another year.
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Don't forget...
He can’t Tweet or Blog either.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
I'm happy to see Joe stick around.
Still plenty of concerns, but we’ve settled into a good news cycle right now. Let’s close out this recruiting class, bring it up to “average,” then go out and win 10+ next year.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
I just keep freezing through them just in case!
We are not normal. We are legends.
by NittanyAlum02 on Jan 9, 2011 6:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good
Glad to see they made this official – I didn’t have much doubt he’d be back.. Can’t wait for a big year.. we need some guys to step up in key positions.. sort the QB out.. but with our schedule and some of the teams in the big ten havin their own issues.. we could be there all year..
Not shocking but sad...obviously the public wants some form of succession plan...we get nothing.
I just don’t understand the thought process by Joe/Admin.
Also there is no way Jay is leaving SC, he has a young family w/ kids in school. I “think” the secret plan is Vandy taking over, Jay PA as OC, and mostly a newer staff.
You will see TB, LJ, Anderson, Kenney, Big Red go elsewhere for retire.
Hire Mike Pettine Jr!!!!!!!!
The reason I say "sad", the football program is so vital to all sports at PSU.
It is the cash cow that runs the University, you need to run it like a major corp, not an old man’s personal project.
Hire Mike Pettine Jr!!!!!!!!
I don’t get the thought process by the Admin. I get it for Joe – he wants to coach until he is physically/mentally unable. Now, we can argue as to whether that’s “fair” or a good idea or in PSU’s best self-interest, but he seems pretty transparent to me.
I would have zero problems with the PSU Admin coming out and saying that 2011 will be Paterno’s last year (would certainly help with season ticket sales/STEP IMHO) . But if so, they need to have a succession plan and it would have to be someone from within – and I’m not sure they want that.
People live to be 115 all the time
What if we’re still having this conversation in 2041?
All the magazines are saying that terrible is the new horrible
IMO then we are pretty effing lucky
I’ll take as much success with honor as we can get
Mauti Matters
by letsgopsu on Jan 9, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Yay!
"We do not and cannot accept the principle that incompetence justifies dismissal. That is victimization."
I'm glad that Joe's going to be back,
but I hope we don’t have a massive upheaval among the assistant coaches.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
We all knew he would be back, but...
I think most of us view 2011 as the absolute MUST end of of the Paterno era. I love the guy, and there is no greater ambassador to college football. However, I feel…and have felt for many years…that he is holding the program back. He is the 500 pound weight around the Lions neck. I don’t think the next head coach is on the current staff. They want to go outside of the current crew, and I support that approach. Bradley, Big Red, JayPa, Vandy, LJ (well, maybe not LJ)…thanks for all you’ve done, but we are going to go down a different path. I hope that is the message, I hope that is the path.
Parenthetical?
Please elaborate on the “maybe not LJ?”
We are not normal. We are legends.
by NittanyAlum02 on Jan 9, 2011 7:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They have to keep LJ and Vandy, no matter what.
Look at our D-Line’s and LB’s this decade. No way you can let THEM go. I also think we should keep Big Red. Wasn’t he the recruiting coordinator that helped us land the Derrick Williams/Justing King group that brought us out of the dark years?
I don't want to see any of the younger coaches go when Joe retires.
I’d like to see Bradley or LJ take over and keep Vandy and Big Red and even Jay, but I doubt that’s going to happen.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
This. I mean, I can understand the desire to do a “national search” and get a sexy pick for head coach, but I rather like most of our staff and would prefer to see them retained. Once Paterno goes, we’ll see Hall and Anderson retire, I suspect, and I’m pretty cool with most everyone else staying on if they are interested.
When PSU hired Rip Engle they insisted he keep the current staff in place. Engle insisted on bringing in one assistant, and that was Joe Paterno.
I could see the administration insisting on keeping the assistant coaches for at least a couple of years. I figure Anderson and Hall will retire, so the new guy will at least get to bring in a few of his guys. Some of the younger guys might decide to bail anyway and move on in order to move up. But I think we’ll see some kind of consistency maintained. I don’t think PSU wants a complete overhaul with a bunch of guys that have no appreciation for the Penn State way of doing things.
I agree with everything you said. PSU should commit to the current staff beyond 2011, even if they are determined to have next season be the last for JoePa. Hall and Anderson would be gone with Joe and it’s likely some other members on the staff might move on anyway – so if they hire a new HC from outside, he’d still be able to bring in a few of “his guys”. But committing to the current coaches will make a huge difference with recruiting next year, which could be a very critical year.
yes, yes, yes
A sexy coach may bring not think Penn State traditions are sexy at all, and this would be a tragedy
Mauti Matters
well, I could see this as an argument AGAINST keeping the current staff if we go outside with a hite
as the last time this happened, the assistant that was brought along from the outside, and who had no love of Penn State, didn’t want to be here, etc, turned out to be pretty successful in his own right (if one can call 400+ wins "pretty successful)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Nittany Mike
I think 2011 must be Joe’s last year. I love Paterno and what he has meant to PSU and life in general. But enough is enough.
My only difference is, If Bradley does not land a job this year, he should be offered the job at PSU.
I am not sad about this at all...
Admittedly I was in the Joe should retire camp a few times over the year and then went to a couple more games and watched him run that team out of the tunnel. I guess I just started thinking about how much I am going to miss him roaming the sidelines someday very soon and Im just not in as big of a hurry for that day to arrive anymore. We will be fine as Nittany Lions whether Joe coaches 1 or 5 more years, so I think for now Im just going to stick with being proud to watch a living legend continue his grand experiment. Good luck in 2011 Joe, givem hell! We are!
We are not normal. We are legends.
by NittanyAlum02 on Jan 9, 2011 7:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Penn State!
as an aside, and appropos of nothing… is anybody else not getting notified of new posts? Did I do something wrong?
JoePa – coaching PSU 140 Characters at a time
Same
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
I thought it was just me
Every comment thread has been reset as if I had read it, and I was away all day today, so unless someone broke into my house got on my computer and instantly became addicted to BSD and read all the posts and comments I hadn’t, something is wrong.
"instantly became addicted to BSD"
and that’s exactly how it would happen. Instantly. This place is like crack. But in a good way.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
Threadjack Bolden Tracker
He got wings with some of the guys from the team and is really excited
http://twitter.com/Si_REDDzone25/status/24281110712164352
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
For those of us not using Twitter, could we share with the class what was said?
He’s protected his tweets, so I can’t see it.
Here you go.
haha this dude @rbolden1 just got some wings over and I’ve never seen him so hype in my life haha.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
Correction: chicken cosmos heal all wounds
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
by NJ lion on Jan 9, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fact: chicken cosmos cured polio
@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Jan 10, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would pay $100 for one more chicken cosmo
EASY
I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.
Fact: Chicken Cosmos are actually the famed "ambrosia", the food of the gods, of Greek Mythology
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
Redd showing leadership
Awesome
by confirmy on Jan 10, 2011 10:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
see psu is till doing things the right way. he has earned to do what he wants and he does do what is right
There will be no battle fatigue in my command
Quite a mix of emotions regarding Paterno
First of all, I don’t think many people hate Paterno, though some are concerned with the future of the program, even impatient for change. I think it is realistic and fair to expect a discussion regarding the future of the program especially with the coach 84 years old approaching the last year of his contract.
People have to face the fact that the PSU football program is a very important organization with huge revenue and considerable resources and as such proper planning is required to ensure continuity and success. While Paterno has played a huge role in what PSU football is today, it is larger than one man.
The possible departure of a key assistant such as Bradley is also a serious development and not something to be overlooked or dismissed lightly. Paterno has admitted that he has begun to delegate more to his staff than in previous years and a man like Bradley, with several decades of experience who is probably carrying a huge workload will not be easily replaced. Coaching by all accounts is a very demanding career and it’s a credit to the staff as a whole that they have remained competitive despite the fact that key member such as JoePa and Galen Hall do not actively recruit. I just hope that the university recognizes that the current situation is not sustainable and that continued success is going to require foresight and some hard decisions in the very near future.
I might buy this argument
except for the fact that during the Dark Years, attendance may have dropped some, but I don’t seem to remember the athletic department going bankrupt or having to cut sports programs at PSU like other schools have had to do. We have a fiercely loyal fan base, the majority of which realize that PSU runs on a 3-4 year NC run cycle (outliers being late 70s to mid 80s, and the Dark Years). If attendance does drop at PSU games, I guarantee it has more to do with STEP than it does with Paterno.
Well I guess what I'm hoping
is that another episode of the “dark years” won’t come about. True those years did not bankrupt the athletic department. But at the same time the university should not take fan loyalty for granted. Players and fans alike appreciate winning.
As I said it’s mixed emotions. Paterno is not the man he was 20, or even 10 years ago, but then again Paterno at 80% with the staff he has might very well be better than many coaches at 100%. On the other hand, he’s not going to get any younger. He seemed better during the bowl, and I really think he appeared publicly at his best during the week. The post game appearances as a whole (but especially the late games) were where his age showed.
Next season will see an improvement, but I really think it’s overly optimistic to expect a conference championship. Alabama, Nebraska, OSU are going to remain tough games to win, and the QB situation remains unsettled, the oline will again need to be rebuilt and there’s the possibility of defensive coaching changes. That would be a challenge for a coach half Paterno’s age.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 9, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
For me
a dark year will be the first one Joe does not coach. In so many ways, he is the only consistent thing in so many of our lives. Dramatic? Maybe, but still true
Mauti Matters
and every ending...is a new beginning
Surely a great man, an icon. What he’s done should not be forgotten. At the same time we should not fear the future. Best way to honor Paterno would be to continue to strive for excellence and continue the Grand Experiment
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 9, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
well that will largely depend on
who the university hires to replace Joe. Joe has had opportunities in the past to influence who succeeds him, but I think some of the those opportunities may have been passed by. Sandusky, Ganter or Bradley would have probably followed in a very similar fashion to Joe in regards to student athletes.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 9, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Let's not act like Joe Paterno is the only guy that can do things the right way.
Or even the only guy that IS doing things the right way.
We all love Joe. He’s been very special. But there’s no reason to assume that Penn State is going to hire a guy who isn’t true to our values once his time as head coach expires. It’s as much a part of our brand and marketing as it is inherent in our values system. It’s our primary advantage over our other rivals – schools that have just as much tradition and are just as famous as us. No one is going to willingly throw that away, and there are plenty of coaches who would embrace such a mantle.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 9, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
But there’s no reason to assume that Penn State is going to hire a guy who isn’t true to our values once his time as head coach expires.
One reason would be Michigan and RichRod. Not saying that will happen at PSU—and I sure hope it doesn’t—but it could.
Here's my concern.
If the next guy’s grad rates drop ten-fifteen percent but we get a win per year more than we got from 2005 to 2009, would the admin do or say anything at all about it? I doubt it, and I doubt the vast majority of Penn State fans would know or care. They’d just be excited about the championships. But to me, that would be a major step away from the Grand Experiment. Those championships would be tainted in my eyes, and frankly I’d largely stop caring about PSU football.
by PSUEnrg02 on Jan 10, 2011 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sure, but anything could happen.
That’s conspiracy theory talk, though. There’s nothing that Graham Spanier has ever done that would indicate that he would allow those kinds of situational ethics here. The absense of evidence doesn’t equal evidence.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I think you're overestimating an Admin's influence over an athletic program's culture.
If the next coach wins an NC but grad rates fall well below PSU standards under Joe Pa, what are Spanier or Curley possibly going to do about it? Seriously? They’re not going to fire the guy. We’re not going to be paying ‘elite’ money for an HC so they definitely couldn’t doc his pay if they want any hope of retaining him. What’s the recourse?
Fair points.
I don’t buy the argument that we won’t be paying “elite” money, though. The school is going to kick in as much as it wants, and it’ll be supplemented by a major donor or six and endorsement deals. It’ll be heavily incentive laden, mostly revolving around scholastic achievements and on-the-field success. You have to incentivize performance in the classroom in order to make any new coach take it seriously. At least that’s what I’ll do.
This administration has made it clear that “success with honor” doesn’t simply apply to the athletic department. It’s a school-wide slogan that’s been used as the foundation for several very successful fundraising programs. Spanier’s a university president that values those contributions, and those contributions are the direct result of that culture being used as a marketing device. It’s our bread and butter, and he’s not going to give that away so we can win another football game a year. It’s all about revenue – this is our brand. It’s necessary for him to preserve it if he wants to preserve his own employment.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
How much does Nick Saban make without academic incentives?
In order to compete with that ‘elite’ level of compensation, we’d have to match that and then add on more money for academic incentives. IMO, there is no way we pay nearly that much, and the only thing that will change my mind on that is a direct quote from Curely/SPanier to the contrary or to actually see the day when it happens.
Slogan’s are nice, but I beyond the possibility of incentivizing it I just don’t see how the admin can have that much control over an athletic program. At best, being a good guy and having high grad rates will help you keep your job for a while if you’re unsuccessful on the field – see Ed Dechellis.
In the end, IMO, we will be heavily dependent on the next coach – not the admin – to uphold Joe Pa’s traditions. I think it’s possible that we could find an outside hire to do this, I’m just not nearly as confident as you that it will happen for the reasons I’ve outlined. You obviously disagree with fairly strong rationalle, and I accept that.
Indeed, agree to disagree.
I certainly see your point, and I guess we again have to define the terms of “elite,” this time revolving around total compensation. I don’t think we’ll pay a Saban-type salary, but I believe a significant portion of Saban’s salary is paid for through outside contributions by major donors. That’s exactly what I expect us to do, which is how we’re able to pay a wrestling coach such a commanding salary. If we can find a donor for wrestling, we can do the same for our largest revenue generator.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
there's a reason Joe doesn't like boosters or having to be held accountable to donor money like that.
As far as PSUEnrg’s comments, I probably fall more in his camp than yours. While I don’t think it is impossible to find someone who can come and have success with honor, we’ve already seen how hard it is for coaches to come and have success, period (see: pretty much any other school going through head coaching changes). Now you add on the added criteria, and your sample pool decreases dramatically.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's not that JoePa is the only one who has any idea how to do the right thing.
That line of thinking isn’t at all fair to a lot of other coaches. It’s that Joe’s a sure thing and we’re not used to change. Of course people will be nervous.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
I totally agree with this
Joe has been a part of our lives for our entire lives to date (for most of us anyway). Rip Engle may have layed the foundation for making PSU a household name, but it was Paterno that chiseled the name into the stone. You can’t attribute all of PSU’s growth to football alone, but the fact that a school in a town in the middle of no where, PA has grown into one of the most powerful research institutions in the nation with the largest alumni societies in the world seems to have coincided with the growth and success of our athletic programs, especially football.
Have to disagree on Bradley.
If Bradley leaves, and either LJ or Vandy are still around, I just don’t see much dropoff. If Bradley leaves with LJ, Vandy, and Big Red, then we have a problem. But I don’t see that many leaving when some would need to make it a lateral move to a school like Pitt, UConn etc.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
Well
If you thought Joe was going to retire soon and you were told Spanier is going to do a national search and the new guy might not keep you on, you might be looking for a place to land.
Definitely something to that.
But if I were going to make the move, I would rather go somewhere fresh than go work for someone I used to work with. Looking at that group I don’t see anyone with a problem getting a job in their current position with a better school than Pitt or UConn if they stick it out until next offseason (or even sooner).
But either way, my big concern would be losing both. If you are LJ or Vandy and Bradley offers you to go with him as position coach, then Joe offers you the ability to stay and be DC, even if it’s short term I have trouble believe that one wouldn’t stay to be DC.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 9, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno.....
Paterno has already stated he is delegating more. Everyone knows that Paterno and Galen Hall don’t recruit. That HAS to mean that Bradley and the other coaches have a HUGE workload.
If one or two coaches leave who’s going to not only fill in for them, but also take up the additional workload? And what qualified coach with decades of experience is going to move and take that position with the strong possibility that it is for just one year? I don’t think you fill a hole like that without some disruption.
As for a lateral move….IF Bradley become HC he could offer Johnson or Vandy a (longterm) DC position, that’s not a lateral move. If any of them are concerned with long term prospects then it would seem logical that they would take an offer from Bradley. Money might be an issue though, but that’s a different subject.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 9, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think any coach would be recruited without at least a 3-year contract.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
Not my point though.
The point was I am not worried about the defense if we retain LJ or Vandy for DC. If Bradley goes and offers one of them DC at his new school, fine, that person might be gone (might, let’s not forget LJ opted to stay in SC rather than take a promotion). But do you really think the one not offered DC would then follow to work for that DC? Especially when we are going to need to fill the DC position here?
If Bradley goes, I think there is a high likelihood that both end up being DCs, here and Bradley’s school. I don’t foresee the dropoff you do. Why do we need position coaches with decades of experience? You have added qualifications for success that don’t exist. I feel quite confident that Joe, LJ, Vandy et. al. have a long list of former GAs that moved on to smaller schools as position coaches and would kill to come back, even for just a year or two. Yes, there would be some negative impact to recruting, but with an injection of youth I’m not sure how much. It’s still the PSU brand, and some younger coaches just might energize these HS recruits.
Granted, I am biased because I feel rather tepid about Bradley. Fine coach. But not a loss where it would be impossible to find an improvement.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
yup, we'll have to agree to disagree then
Why do we need position coaches with decades of experience?
So having coaches with decades of experience is not an advantage?
The fact that PSU has a guy like Vandy as linebacker coach I think is directly related to the success PSU has had at linebacker. The guy has literally “written the book” on defense in college football. His qualifications are impeccable for a defensive coordinator let alone a linebacker coach. There’s every reason to believe that players like Poz, Lee, Connor, Mauti were sold on “Linebacker U” because of Vandy. Sure they could probably get a D’Onofrio type alum to return to coach the position but you don’t replace decades of experience without skipping a beat.
As for injecting some youth and energy into the program I don’t think it’s Bradley, Vandy or Johnson’s age and lack of energy that is posing a problem. There’s certainly little evidence to suggest that the defense as a whole or LB or DL positions have been a liability for the program.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
Having experienced coaches is a huge advantage. Elevating GAs and young coaches are great, but it’s easier to do when you’re surrounding them with experienced staff. If Bradley left and took several coaches, it’d be very difficult for Paterno, Galen, Jay, and LJ to keep these guys up to speed while maintaining any kind of consistency in recruiting. Everyone’s job becomes exponentially larger.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Having decades of experience, alone, is not an advantage.
More important than that is the ability of the coach. The important part would not be losing those decades, but losing great coaches. You asked who are we going to find with decades of experience? You are implying that you cannot find good or even great coaches without decades of experience. So, a great position coach with 8-12 years of experience cannot succeed? It’s just not true. Not having 20+ years of experience doesn’t make them rookies either. You can find good coaches who know how to do their job and aren’t total rookies without leaping to decades of experience.
Again, I’m not saying there won’t be any loss, but I think it had a tendency to get way overstated.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Mixed emotions
Stoked to see Paterno on the sidelines again, but looking forward to changes and new faces in the program, but will be upset to witness the end of an era.
I just keep thinking that once he’s gone, the Paterno era is really over- and maybe change can wait another year or 2.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
by NJ lion on Jan 9, 2011 10:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yes, exactly.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 9, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
I always
think what will change when he does retire? will it get better or worse? will new guy dare to change the uni’s? paterno field? blue buses? all that kind of stuff; anyway !
That sort of thing worries me
but I truly believe it wont happen. I don’t know how they let it happen at Michigan, but here you’d have the vast majority of the largest alumni society in the world very pissed off.
I just hope the next coach
doesn’t get the Michigan theory.
He’s not JoePa he won’t be good.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
mixed emotions on this all as well....
I think I side with Mike when I say that I’ll deal with a few less that stellar seasons in between B10 runs in order to let Joe go out his way.
I love the tradition we have stemming from a very stable coaching staff that does things the right way. I love the nostalgia…the fact that LB positions are named after PSU legends…and all the legacy kids that show up and perform (zordich, mauti, etc.). Its all good stuff..it makes me comfortable and warm and fuzzy. It’ll be weird when that’s gone.
That said, I would like PSU to content for the MNC more often, but if we ever become just another school that over signs, lacks discipline and doesn’t graduate student athletes, I feel like you’ve lost PSU football.
Selling my Big Ten Championship rings since 2005....
@ArtieFufkin10
I think I have to respectfully disagree
PSU football is larger than Paterno and I don’t think that Paterno’s role in building up the institution known as Penn State Football should give him the right to let it decay or tear it down.
Whether it’s one more season or 10, a man at his age and an institution like PSU should be able to have a conversation about the future. If Paterno and the University are going to ask kids to dedicate 4-5 very important years of their lives to this school and this program then they have every right to ask who will be leading them and what the future holds for them during their stay at Penn State.
The fact that at this point no one call tell a recruit or a current player what will happen or who will be running the program after 2011 is a failing on the part of both the University and Paterno and can really do nothing but undermine confidence in the future. I’m glad they’re not lying or misleading recruits or players but I think a program with the stature of PSU should be able to maintain a vision, even if only for a few years ahead, of the future. It’s not exactly as if Paterno’s age is a sudden development.
And to be honest to suggest that the only way to compete at the highest levels is to compromise the programs integrity by oversigning or paying lipservice to academics is to essentially reject the premise of Paterno’s Grand Experiment. One might as well suggest that America’s democratic republic could only be achieved with Jefferson and Washington. I will be as disappointed as any if Penn State compromises it’s values for the sake of wins. But I don’t accept that a man or men, and their vision are one and the same. Paterno has shown a way, but the time is approaching for the torch to be passed. Men may grow old, but visions do not have to. The future values and success of the program will not be determined by how long Paterno continues to coach, but by how long those values and expectations are carried by the university, it’s fans and supporters.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
+1 for the last paragraph
I get the concern in paragraph 3, but what is the university really supposed to do to fix that? Assuming they aren’t enthralled with the idea of elevating one of the staff (which seems likely given the circumstances surrounding Tom Bradley recently), their only other option is to hire a new coordinator who they will then name coach-in-waiting. No one really wants that because (a) it doesn’t really guarantee anything (see Muschamp, Will) and (b) can cause friction and a power struggle that undermines the faith in the current head coach (see Bowden, Bobby).
If the university wants to go with an outside hire, then there’s nothing they can really say other than, “Joe Paterno is our head football coach. If that should change, Penn State is committed to hiring the best coach available that shows alignment with our values as an institution.”
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 7:01 AM EST up reply actions
well I agree
at this stage there really isn’t too much that can be done. NCAA rules make naming a “Head Coach in waiting” impossible due to recruiting restrictions, and it’s too early to name a successor if 2011 is Paterno’s last season.
Joe and the University “missed the boat”. It’s not as if Joe’s age is a sudden surprise, and before the NCAA rules were put in place PSU could have simply proposed that Bradley or Vandy or whomever would fulfill the remainder of Joe’s contract if Joe for whatever reason would be unable to continue. That would have reassured recruits, players and fans while providing a bridge or transition to a new (outside) coach if that was the direction the University wished to take.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
You keep saying that Penn State hasn't done this or that,
isn’t telling recruits what the succession plan is, etc. But how do you know? Are you privy to the internal workings of the university?
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
a few reasons
1) no such thing as a “secret”. We’re dealing with college football which is under a media microscope and something which involves teenagers. Also some recruits might not be swayed by a “secret succession plan” and what incentive would a recruit or a recruits family, neighbor, high school coach, or second cousin have in keeping this information secret, especially if they are not attending PSU?
2) IF PSU has a secret succession plan I hope they are being very very careful because that could lead to NCAA recruiting violations! As discussed elsewhere on this thread, a Head Coach in Waiting has recruiting restrictions placed on them (the same as the Head Coach I believe). Therefore if Bradley, Vandy or Johnson or some other coach was actually the Head Coach in Waiting they would be responsible for adhering to those restrictions (which would probably attract attention)
3) When other schools are probably negatively recruiting against you by pointing out the coaching uncertainty at PSU, and fans, boosters and media are voicing concern over the lack of a plan, why would PSU want to keep the fact that they DO have a plan secret? They would be handicapping themselves by doing so.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a fair statement.
Look at the couple of weeks we have had lately. You don’t think any incoming players would slip? Look at what happened in December when a recruit said he talked to Joe and he said he’d be there 4-5 more years.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
I suppose they missed the boat on naming Sandusky, Ganter, and then Bradley
head coach in waiting, but I think there’s a firm belief by the administration that none of them were going to be head coaches here. I think Ganter was the one who had the closest appearance of being a head coach. I’m not convinced Bradley has the demeanor for it – I’d be glad to be proven wrong, but I just don’t see it.
If that’s the case, how do you reassure recruits, players and fans? If Joe had a 5 year contract and he retires or becomes ill in year 2, sure, let Bradley take over the program for the rest of the year. But if they don’t want him, they aren’t going to be forced into taking him for 3 more years.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
well a 5 year contract
for a man in his 70’s let alone 80’s seems unrealistic and if I am not mistaken Joe’s current contract is for 3 years. So the likelihood is that PSU would be “saddled” with a Ganter, Sandusky or Bradley for 1-2 years and I think given the crap-shoot that head coach hiring seems to be, most would be fine with a 1-2 “trial period” with the devil they know as compared to the devil they don’t know.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Don't particularly care for this statement
If Paterno and the University are going to ask kids to dedicate 4-5 very important years of their lives to this school and this program then they have every right to ask who will be leading them and what the future holds for them during their stay at Penn State
Unless a recruit is signing his commitment letter to a brand new head coach, in all likelihood that coach isn’t going to be there on Senior Day anyway. There have been almost 900 D1A head coaching changes since Paterno became HC. A typical HC is at a school for 6ish years. So unless a recruit is signing to play for a guy who’s been at a school 0-2 years, he most likely isn’t going to be the coach when that guy graduates anyway.
I understand what you’re saying and I think it really does enter into the minds of recruits, their high school coaches, and parents. I just don’t think that it should, and that in no way is Penn State failing to meet a moral obligation (that other schools meet, anyway) by not being able to ensure those folks that the head coach is going to remain intact for the next 4-5 years.
To illustrate my point, the following is a list of the schools in the top 10 all time in wins who have not had a coaching change in the last 5 years:
Penn State
Ohio State
Texas
Oklahoma
USC, Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Notre Dame, and Nebraska all have. Both teams currently in the MNC game have. Florida is very arguably the most successful on the field program of the last 15 seasons and they have. Miami’s won more MNCs than anyone else in the last 30 years and they have. Some of those teams have changed coaches more than once in the last 5 years.
Penn State’s inability to guarantee that Joe will be there to shake their hand on Senior Day might put PSU at some sort of disadvantage in recruiting. It definitely should not.
I've got the brains. You've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
by ckmneon on Jan 10, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
+1 for the stat geeks
Someone should have every one of our assistants point this out to recruits (I’ms ure they do generally, but that’s a great statistic to use).
Urban Meyer is a great example of this. Terrific coach, super successful, guy who parents trust….gone after 6 years. Success almost killed him, literally.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
disagree, there's a difference
sure, there’s lots of turnover in the coaching ranks in college football. Just because the coach’s future isn’t a certainty doesn’t mean that they don’t have a plan or a vision for the future.
Coaches and schools still present a plan for the future, coaches make their pitch and it’s up to the recruits to judge for themselves. While there are no guarantees (there never really are) they make assumptions. Good or bad, that’s different than what PSU is doing which is simply saying “we have no idea, no plan for 2012 and beyond”.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
What I'm saying is
how is PSU’s inability to know what 2012 and beyond will bring any different than the aforementioned programs? Randy Shannon was Miami’s savior. Urban Meyer was a brilliant young coach who would be around for a long time. Rich Rodriguez was making serious progress on a rebuilding project. Lane Kiffin was bringing a great recruiting class into Tennessee and talking smack to other SEC programs. Wanny was bringing Pitt back to powerhouse status. That was one year ago.
How did their plans and visions for the future go?
I guess the only difference between PSU and the aforementioned is that PSU isn’t claiming to know what the future will bring. Personally, I think that’s a more ethical, honest approach.
Maybe that honesty hurts PSU in recruiting. Since when does PSU care more about recruiting than doing things the right way?
I've got the brains. You've got the looks. Let's make lots of money.
by ckmneon on Jan 10, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you realize
that you are only citing the negative examples? Given that train of thought why would any school ever fire any coach? At least these coaches can say “I have 3 years left on my contract, we won X games last season, these are the X’s and O’s of my strategy and here is why I think you could make a difference….”. They have a vision, they have something to sell and it’s up to the recruit to decide. Heck with Pitt’s most recent example it might be irresponsible for a coach to even suggest that they’ll be coaching in a month, let alone 3 years down the line. If the average stay for a HC is 3 years then that means some are there longer and some are there shorter periods. There’s a big difference between 2-3 years and ZERO years.
I just don’t see how any program can compete for top recruits by saying “hey, we have no idea who the next coach is, let alone what kind of offense or defense they’ll be running but we want you to commit the next 4-5 years of your life to us.”
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Not to assume I know what ck is saying
but I take it as selling the Penn State ideal to recruits, not just selling a certain coach or scheme. Instead of saying, come to Florida because Urban Meyer is head coach and we’ll run a 4-3 defense and a spread offense. PSU can say, come to Penn State because we graduate our players and have a tradition of doing things the right way. They can say, whether the coach is Joe Paterno, Tom Bradley, or some guy we bring off the street, the jerseys still don’t have names on the back and our helmets are still white with a blue stripe. That’s who we are.
And I think that response is a lot more honest and better to hear than what others might say.
by GMac14 on Jan 10, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
they are in a sense asking recruits to take something on “faith” and they are selling an “ideal”. It would certainly help if there was more they could use to help sell to recruits. The situation by and large is what it is.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
but what ck is also saying
is that no one can say any of that with any certainty.
Saying “we don’t know exactly what will happen in the next few years, but we will make sure we do our best, and do things the right way” is better (to me) than saying, “here’s our head coach, he’ll do this and that”.
Sure, with an average tenure of 6 years, some people are less and some are more, but since you can’t predict which you’ll get, you are best to assume you will be average. That means that (assuming most kids graduate 5-6 years from when they commit to a school) unless your new head coach is within the first few years of their contract, there’s about an even chance that they won’t be leaving the program with the same coach they entered with.
Yes, the chances of that happening at Penn State are much closer to 100%, but at least you know as a recruit that if the next coach comes in and continues with the Grand Experiment, that they have a good chance of sticking around for a long time.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think a point worth mentioning
is DWill and Justin King saw the same head coaching regime their entire tenure. So did the next class. And the next one will as well (with this announcement).
I understand JoePa isn’t getting any younger, but who really knows if next season is his last or he extends his contract another three years after we have another remarkable and unexpected year. Clearly they are still getting recruits to come to PSU. Aside from this class (which looks better every day) PSU has brought in some top classes in the past few years. Last year, for example.
Change is scary. We’ve been on the edge of our seats since 1993 thinking that Joe was going to hang it up. I think people basically fall into two camps: ‘lets rip the bandaid off and get it over with’ or ‘come on science, make Joe live forever’. No matter what happens paying taxes will suck, beer will get you drunk, and there will be uncertainty in college football. Lets all just step back from the ledge and let this thing that we have no control over play out.
by psuphysicist on Jan 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
PSU is not saying that, at all
You are editorializing because you are not satisfied with the information you have on 2012. The problem with it is that no school has ever discussed the plan for the year after next. You make the inference that they are satisfied, presumably based on the age of their coach and an assumption that since he is not fired, they are happy with him, and so it constitutes a plan for future years. What if Notre Dame (tried to choose a school with a coach that is an accurate representation of the field, and I think people believe Kelly is a good coach and is stable right now) said “this is how we see 2012 and beyond.” We would call them crazy for skipping over the plan for next year. We would tear them apart based on that statement.
Personally, I don’t see any schools with grand plans for the future. Everyone is trying to win now. That means doing what’s best for 2011. This notion that PSU is spitting on 2012 and beyond is absurd to me.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well once again we'll have to agree to disagree
I think most programs realize with recruiting and developing players that there are years you make runs and rebuilding years. If I recall even Joe made a comment this season that he felt the team would go 8-3? I’m pretty sure that wasn’t his highest aspiration but he felt that it was a rebuilding year. Most coaches recognize that QB’s need seasoning, linemen need physical development, etc. New coaches have to start from scratch, but I think almost all competent coaches realize that it takes at least a year or two to get a top caliber team. All this implies planning years in advance.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe we are disagreeing,
but not on that point. There certainly are those years, they exist. And all those factors contribute. But it doesn’t mean you plan for them. Why would any team plan for a down year? Even if you did, you definitely do not discuss them publicly. If any team in the country started talking about the 2012 season we would think they are crazy. It’s just not the attitude around this team because a lot of people want Joe to retire. It is also possible to plan for 2012 without knowing who the coach will be. You recruit the best players you can, try to develop your players the best you can. That’s really about the limit of your long term preparation when you start discussing 2012+.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Whose to say there isn't a plan in place and they just ain't telling anybody?
I don’t know if that’s the smartest approach, but I’m having a hard time imagining that the powers that be don’t have some sort plan in place to replace and 84 year old coach.
Maybe
We should name a Head-Coach-In-Waiting.
That seems to work out really well with other major programs.
Sarcastradamus!
Snide predictions since 2010!
It will certainly be exciting when Will Muschamp takes over the reigns at Texas
Wait, whaaa?
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
Here's the rub
The NCAA instituted new rules for these “head coaches in waiting” that puts them under the same restrictions as head coaches. There are periods in the recruiting cycle where assistant coaches are allowed to travel but head coaches are not. The NCAA has ruled that if you label someone as head coach in waiting, they are held to the same rules as the head coach and cannot travel during those times.
it's a shame they couldn't "grandfather" in Paterno
if there was ever a case for an exception to that rule it would be Paterno. Doesn’t Alabama have some special scholarships that have been grandfathered that no other school has?
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
If you are the child of someone who played for the Bear.
I believe the last player who was grandfathered in under that rule has already passed through the system
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I SAW RICK NEUHEISEL WAITING FOR A BEER AT THE CORNER ROOM!
HE ALREADY KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE WAITING GAME!
OH GOD
well most schools are not in the position PSU is in
with an 84 year old Head coach who has been coaching at the same school for 4 decades.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
So we'd have no one but Big Red
that would travel for recruiting during those times.
Assuming that we name both Bradley and LJ Sr as Head-coaches-in-waiting.
Sarcastradamus!
Snide predictions since 2010!
Random Thoughts
1. Before Paterno Penn State had a tradition of graduating athletes. Paterno’s grand experiment said we could have an elite program and graduate athletes. I don’t think or fear a new couch could get by not graduating their athletes. It’s ingrained into Penn State.
2. It would be tough for Penn State assistant couches with kids in school to leave unless the new job was a considerable upgrade (HC or coordinator), especially if the kids are in middle or high school. State College is a great place to raise a family. This magnet should not be under estimated.
3. I would be willing to bet (even money) that Joe Paterno’s record his last five years of coaching will equal or be better then the next coaches first 5 years.
4. Every school has a culture to work within. Cultures evolve from their environment.
New coaches that try and make changes to a " liked" environment usually fail. Golden at Temple had a negative environment to work with and was successful in changing it. That is not the case at Penn State
Environmental factors are huge.
I said this in another thread, but consider a place like Notre Dame. You might argue that they’re irrelevant on a national scale, and that’s certainly true now to an extent. Notre Dame, however, is one of the most recognizable brand names in college athletics and has been for the past eight decades or so. In that time, they’ve probably had a dozen coaches. This past year, their graduation rate was somewhere in the 90s. Don’t worry about PSU turning into OSU, USC, or Miami after Joe leaves because the institution itself is so strong.
Joe’s wonderful. He’s the greatest coach of all-time – a winner and a scholar. We’re not going to get another Joe Paterno – most schools only get one of those (if they ever get any at all). That doesn’t mean that the guy that follows Paterno can’t be successful in his own right. However, to be successful here, the next coach is going to have to follow the blueprint – that means high graduation rates and lots of wins. You can’t have one without the other here because the culture’s already built in.
As a side note, we’re going to have to grade the next coach on a curve. I’m going to get hammered for this, but even if the grad rate drops 10% here with a new coach, we’re still at 79%. Compared to Joe’s recent successes, that’s an abomination and certainly the fans at BSD would freak out. It would, however, still leave us as the top FCS public school for graduation rates, which isn’t something to be ashamed of. I don’t think the next coach is going to improve graduation rates from where we are today and win at the same rate as Joe – that’s damn near impossible and holding him up to the standards set by a unique legend is basically irrational. But if he graduates 79% of his players and wins 50 games in 5 years, that’s going to be a massive success. Just because the next guy falls short of Joe won’t make him any less of one.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh, top *FBS* school.
Can we just go back to 1A and 1AA?
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
well, if/when we ever get our own playoff
then we can have FCS 1A and FCS 1AA ;-)
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
My head just exploded.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Joe Paterno could very well be the next coaches downfall.
The standards have been set very high. I hope the next HC will be willing to put up with all the crap that will come with this job.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
My biggest concern is patience.
We’ve been lacking that for some time now, and it’s gotten very, very bad this year. 7-6 is not a good year by anyone’s standards, but these kinds of things happen. Now I see people literally seething at the idea of throwing Joe out the door. Someone last week (not here) said they wanted to watch Joe get escorted out by security while carrying a cardboard box. Another person, who for years had been regarded as fairly reasonable, said that he couldn’t wait to “see this end ugly.” Multiple times a day, I’ve seen Joe referred to as “that selfish old man.”
I find all of that to be disgraceful. I understand not wanting Joe to coach anymore. I’m not going to deny that I’ve felt that way at points as well. But if this is the reaction that Joe Paterno gets at 7-6, less than a year removed from 11-2 and a top 10 ranking and 2 years removed from a league title and Rose Bowl appearance (with a national title game berth just a missed FG away), I can’t even imagine what it’s going to be like for the next coach who ends up at 7-6.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
uncertainty brings this out in people
I think it is a logical, predictable, though unseemly result of the lack of planning by multiple parties. I think many would have the same feelings if the team wen 8-4 or 9-3. Uncertainty about the future makes people jittery.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
It is horrifying, though.
Life is fraught with uncertainty. If this is the way people respond to uncertainty to the head football coach situation at their alma mater, I’d hate to see them when things in their life actual start to circle the drain. At some point, you have to maintain some level of composure. This fan base is rapidly showing an inability to do that to even the most minor degree.
As a side note, I’m glad you’re on this site and posting. There’s plenty we disagree about (and much we agree about), but I appreciate that there are people who are willing to engage in some thoughtful discourse about (in the grand scheme of things) a relatively minor subject.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
thanks
it’s interesting to note the different “culture” on different boards. The tone here is certainly respectful and I always appreciate a good debate.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
BSD's "culture" is why I keep coming back.
We certainly aren’t exempt from silly internet fighting but it’s usually a good place to be. I love coming back from class and seeing a long thread made up of (respectful) debates and discussions. The anonymity of the internet usually turns people into such jackwagons.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
It's funny you say that, because that's part of the reason I use my name.
I’m certainly not judging anyone for remaining anonymous – there are a littany of valid reasons to do so. For myself, personally, I’ve found that using my name here (and elsewhere) allows me to speak with some semblance of thought. I’m ultimately responsible for my words and my thoughts, and knowing that they’re attached to my name makes me try to convey my thoughts with clarity and respect.
It’s easy to be a jerk if no one knows who the jerk is.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Actually you use it just to get us confused with the other Adam....
Show me an elitist, and I'll show you a loser.
Tom Clancy
I don't think people approach sports situations the same way that they approach their daily lives.
I’ve always considered it a different mindset for most. Regardless, I agree that it betrays a very unappealing aspect of human nature. For the love of God, it’s football. We’re not supposed to stress out and hyperventilate over it, it’s a game. I feel bad for people who are so angry over the state of our program that they’ve honestly forgotten everything that they enjoy about being a Penn State fan.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
I'm not sure I agree.
I think the way people react to sports shows a lot about their character as people. It’s one thing to get upset in the heat of the moment during a game, but it’s quite another to harp on a subject with the kind of frequency and language that some people use.
For instance, I also saw a post this weekend decrying the fact that Joe was coaching and the STEP program was going into effect. He lamented the fact that he bought season tickets in the 1970s because all he had were memories and pictures.
Uh, isn’t that the whole point? This college football thing is supposed to give you decades of enjoyment. You’re regretting all that enjoyment because an 84-year old man may or may not be capable of coaching this team to the best of it’s abilities? That has to say something about the guy behind the post.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I always figured that sports was one of those rare worlds where one could afford a bit of irrationality.
At the end of the day we’re all just fans; we aren’t the least bit responsible for the big questions we enjoy debating. It’s sort of like the anonymity phenomena, where a lack of accountability brings out the crazy.
I had one ex who was absolutely wonderful. I could talk to him about everything except sports, because for some reason any mention of the Yankees made him unbearable. Needless to say, that relationship didn’t last too long.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
Yankee haters are tough to deal with.
Which means, you know, 90% of non-New Yorkers are tough to deal with :)
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't his dislike for the Yanks that did it.
One of my best friends is from Boston and we get along fantastically. I don’t care if people hate my team, I’m a New Yorker and we’re cocky like that. It was his total disregard for the history of the team that did it for me. As a huge Gehrig and Berra fan, I just couldn’t take it.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
You're missing Dimaggio??
He’s my guy. He’s my all-time legend. But my favorite Yankee? Tino Martinez.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I love Dimaggio like every other good Bronx fan
and I’m pretty sure Tino was my first crush. But they both lose out to Gehrig, Berra, and Mo for me. Gehrig is what I think of when I hear the word “Yankee” and I grew up watching the Hammer of God. The Berra thing is largely a result of my love for catchers.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
Excellent choice
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
if a coach goes 7-6
some people will start feeling uncertain that he will remain as head coach into the future.
I guess there is a difference between certainty/uncertainty, and the feelings of certainty and uncertainty, and that is where some of this contention comes into play. I don’t care much for false feelings (though I know they are a real factor in life…I’ve learned plenty about that from various girlfriends in the past). Just because I feel warmer after a few beers doesn’t mean I actually AM warmer, and it would be foolish of me to count on my beer sweater to protect me outside in the winter.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
In fact, you ARE warmer in the first 10-15 minutes.
But then your body temperature actually drops well below normal, if my memory on this is accurate. I think I am getting this from Mythbusters, but I can’t recall exactly.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
it makes you feel warmer
but it actually makes your body temperature drop. It increases the blood flow to your skin and extremities (which probably causes the nerves in those regions to feel warmer), but that also causes increased temperature transfer with the cold air, thus decreasing your core body temperature.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Now you have jogged my memory.
So an external reading of your temperature will show an initial increase in your body temp. But the decrease in your core temperature will cool your blood once it circulates, so after a few minutes it will cause a dramatic decrease in even the external reading of your body temp. That’s what it was.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
AT this level the crap comes with any job.
I remember going to Columbus in 2004 and they wanted to hang Tressel because they were only .500 or a game above .500 in October. That was 2 years after winning a national championship. It’s a wonder I didn’t get mauled because I told them people they were out of their minds for being that disgusted for being .500. I told them if they were that upset at .500 they would all be slitting their own throats if OSU was where we were in 2004.
I can see it.
7 – 6
9 – 4
9 – 4
11 – 2
11 – 2
13 – 0 on year six.
Sounds fair to me I guess.
by misdreavus79 on Jan 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
14 - 0 I guess
Forgot there’s a championship game now.
by misdreavus79 on Jan 10, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
some great, astute observations there
I definitely agree with #1 and #4.
On #2 I would just point out that Bradley doesn’t have a family, and Johnson and Vandy (if he has children) probably don’t have any school age children.
On #3 I think it might be pretty even. What might be lost in experience might be gained in energy and enthusiasm. What might be lost in conservative play calling might be gained in innovation. I’m sure some people were unsure of Paterno being able to continue Engle’s success, and Joe’s first season probably gave them good reason to worry. The post Paterno future is necessarily dark.
by Manxome-Lion on Jan 10, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Bold.
"I don’t spend a lot of time dwelling on the negative. I believe that having a good, peaceful mind is the basic premise for a good life."
by Adam Collyer on Jan 10, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
if we were elite
we’d get a double rainbow
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 10, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Pitt job
reportedly close to being offered to Tulsa’s Graham according to Pitt P-G
When I lived in Pittsburgh,
one afternoon I was walking down the street in Oakland and there were fliers posted on telephone poles that said “Joe Paterno dies…but will remain head coach at Penn State.”
How kind of them to announce the death of JoePa.
They probably should’ve done the same for their football program.
"We have the plainest uniforms you can make. We know who we are. We are Penn State, and that's something special."
by dwf5095 on Jan 10, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Here's the deal...
Historical Fact: The AD was hired by JoePa as his successor when JoePa himself was AD & Head Coach, had got his raise, and didn’t want to do AD any longer. The AD is carrying JoePa’s water. PSU is JoePa’s bitch because he gave them all that money which provides Joe job security for as long as he wants it. (Screw that the program is now a second tier program.) Joe’s real hope and long range plan is to let all the assistants get fed up and go on to “better” opportunities elsewhere (except for the un-promotable ones). Voila!! JayPa is the remaining candidate and is the Kim Jong-il to JoePa’s Kim IL_sung…and is the only remaining (viable?) candidate with a PSU background. Don’t forget, in major sports, PSU is dedicated to being inbred (look at Men’s basketball for crying out loud…a no name coach with questionable resume/experience being allowed to stay around for what 8 years and never get an invite to the NCAA’s?? How many big time programs would put up with that?) Spanier needs to grow a pair. The ADs a wussy under Joe’s thumb. Joe rides the program down till people stop buying tickets…that would be till he is physically unable to perform. My credentials: Class of 1966 (I was at Penn State when Rip Engle was the coach), lifetime Alumni Assn member, season ticket holder since at least 1975 and followed the program the whole time Paterno coached it. A loyal fan and alum at age 67 but I say Joe, you need to go and only you can decide to do what is best for this University. Sorry, I don’t think you can look beyond your selfish ego for that. Shame on you. Go ahead a ruin your legacy. P.S. How’d you like a head coach that was a second string QB in High School even with the Paterno name and never played on the PSU team much…and certainly, can’t develop (even retain) quality QBs? Is that what you want?
.......................
that’s all I got.
Fire Dan Snyder
by Cari Greene on Jan 11, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the mentality of Joe setting up Jay to replace him.
There is no way in hell I see the university doing that, regardless of the circumstances. Jay would have no margin for error, and coupled with people being disgusted about the STEP program, if Jay would stumble at all the donations would dry up and kill the cash cow.
there are plenty of good head coaches who've never played a down of football in their lives,
so honestly that part wouldn’t bother me. Not saying I want Joe as HC, but that isn’t the reason why.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 11, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Eastern
"We do not and cannot accept the principle that incompetence justifies dismissal. That is victimization."
by ReadingRambler on Jan 13, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Cottontail
"We do not and cannot accept the principle that incompetence justifies dismissal. That is victimization."
by ReadingRambler on Jan 13, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
BUNNY!
"We do not and cannot accept the principle that incompetence justifies dismissal. That is victimization."
by ReadingRambler on Jan 13, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Jay for Head Job
I hope you are right. My point though is that Joe is motivated to put Jay in that job even at the detriment of the program.
Do you have any proof to make a statement like this??
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
I have proof (sort of) to refute it:
I remember reading an interview with Joe a few years ago (I think it might have been the
Town and Gown preview where Joe was asked about Jay replacing him. Joe said he did NOT like the idea because the standards would be too high and he would be held to an unrealistic standard if Jay were to coach at Penn State. So, unless the old man is senile or an outright-liar, I don’t see Joe trying to set Jay up to be the head coach here.
I love posting this picture
"We do not and cannot accept the principle that incompetence justifies dismissal. That is victimization."
by ReadingRambler on Jan 13, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
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