Penn State 23, Purdue 18: The Art Of Survival
by Chris Grovich on Oct 17, 2011 9:30 AM EDT
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Cake - I Will Survive (via adikmacho94)
Credit. Truth be told, Purdue played a pretty good game on offense. They at least had a clear plan against a rather vicious Penn State defense. Despite otherwise anemic offensive numbers, they were able to get an unusual amount of big plays on the Penn State defense: passes for 50, 20, and 20 yards, as well as runs for 39, 21, and 18. Not sure what could've been done about the 50-yarder to Justin Siller, which was a broken play (and a nice job by TerBush and Siller to keep the play alive). Even when Siller caught the pass, he had a beautiful running lane already established for him. Tough break. Purdue also did a nice job using the aggressiveness of Penn State's defensive tackles against them, seeming to invite them into the backfield while sliding the running back through on draw plays. They did what they could.
How-EV-ah! Yeah, the defense was, shall we say, substandard for the vast majority of the game. Glenn Carson and Nick Sukay did not have their best games, especially with regard to their tackling. Nate Stupar continues to play well in the absence of Mike Mauti, but the guy quietly playing at a very high level that nobody is discussing? Drew Astorino.
End Around Madness. Okay, this needs to stop. Running it once per game with Devon Smith? Fine, we'll collectively deal. The handoff to Justin Brown with 14 seconds left in the half at the Purdue 12 yard line made absolutely no sense, and never had a prayer of being effective. The fumbled end around to Smith in the fourth quarter may have been the most ridiculous playcall of the year. If Penn State lost that ball and I went on a three state killing spree, not a jury in this nation would have convicted if I showed them the game film. After that play, Smith is now averaging 0.5 yards per carry.
WE DOWNED A PUNT, YOU GUYS! After what seemed like a decade's worth of pooch punts bounding into the end zone, Penn State buried Purdue for its final drive when Nick Sukay raced after a booming Anthony Fera punt (which wasn't a pooch punt, and which Purdue's returner stupidly refused to catch). After a 75-yard sprint, Sukay deftly pitched the ball from inside the end zone and it was downed at the Purdue two-yard line. Three plays later, Nate Stupar's interception iced the game for Penn State.
In Appreciation Of Silas Redd. It's hard for me to remember a Penn State running back this quick in traffic between the hashmarks. Also, the world has been underrating Redd's toughness and strength -- see his third quarter touchdown for evidence, as he dragged defenders into the end zone with him.
Quarterback Report. More of what we already knew, although the conditions made passing treacherous for both teams. Bolden was 2-for-6, with an almost-touchdown bullet to BMF on Penn State's opening drive. Otherwise, erratic. McGloin was slightly better, I guess (8-17, 1 INT). He's still prone to extremely questionable decisions, as shown by the exclamatories in the open threads. We can continue to dissect his interception if you really want -- I'll continue to maintain it was a poorly thrown ball to a well-covered receiver who has one career reception. It's "bad throw", "bad decision", or "all of the above". "Unlucky" is not an option here. Sorry.
Those Special Special Teams. Essentially a tire fire on both sides. Purdue's mistakes were more egregious, as they missed a field goal and an extra point, allowed a 33 yard punt return by Justin Brown, and nearly let Chaz Powell run a kickoff back for a touchdown. Oh, and Anthony Fera may be one of PSU's five most indispensable players at this point. Try to name five other players with a more substantial drop-off to their backups. Try to name two.
In Reality, We Should Have Seen This Coming. Look, this is what Penn State will do to its supporters this season. The defense generally provides a modest margin of error, and the offense and special teams exhaust all but an ounce of it. This formula got a little off-kilter against Purdue, but the point remains. After seven games, the personality and character of this is becoming apparent, and it will take years off our lives.
Nexting. Northwestern, who managed to put up nearly 500 yards against Iowa and still got trounced thanks to a McGloinian decision by Dan Persa to lob a ball into traffic (returned for 98 yards and a touchdown by Tanner Miller), and a defense that gave up multiple long passing touchdowns and 5.5 yards per carry to the Hawkeyes.
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It’s hard for me to remember a Penn State running back this quick in traffic between the hashmarks.
I read that as “hamshanks” and was confused.
There are twelve people in the world. The rest are paste.
BBDS?
This game was the epitome of Bend-But-Don’t-Suck* and it worked really well. Stressful? Sure. But successful? That, too.
However, I’m not sure that PSU’s special teams could be considered a “tire fire” in this game. Justin Brown had a great punt return, the punting game was good, all the field goals were good, and Chaz Powell’s kick return was a huge play.
*For those who don’t know, Chris came up with this phrase a few years back.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make." - Michael Weinreb
Full disclosure
I was so hungover on Saturday morning that I couldn’t keep my eyes open to watch the game. That said, while listening to the play by play, it seemed like Purdue did the lion’s share of the special teams DERPing.
They did.
But Purdue also almost ran a kickoff back for a TD, so it’s a small tire fire on PSU’s part.
by Chris Grovich on Oct 17, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
They took the wheels that fell off the offensive wagon
and lit them ablaze.
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That's it.
Kind of like a tire campfire, as opposed to Purdue’s effort, which was suffocating poor folks three towns away.
by Chris Grovich on Oct 17, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah yes, that.
I vaguely remember cussing under my breath while curled in the fetal position when I heard that.
Yes, but BOSSton said there was a pretty egregious missed block in the back on that play.
Again, I didn’t watch the game, and while Steve and Jack didn’t mention this, I mean, hey, those refs did suck.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It was there, for sure.
But I couldn’t tell from the stupid camera angle if Bars was already out of the play or not. Return man might have already passed him by. It didn’t look like it to me, but what do I know?
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's what I know about you:
You are not Dave Witvoet. This is good enough for me.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Don't think it was BBDS
The point of Bend But Don’t Suck is you might give up a thousand short plays but you don’t give up the long backbreaker. Purdue seemed to get the long backbreakers pretty regularly, despite our DTs having a campout in their backfield. The long pass plays especially were out of character, we don’t normally let WRs get past the secondary like that.
That asinine end-around before the half...
Oy vey!
Wouldn’t a fade pass to Devon Smith perched on Justin Brown’s shoulders have had a better chance of success?
"Wham! a homma. Wham! Another homma. Wham! Wham! Wham!"
The thought I had was
Well since this is going to fail, they called it to center the ball for the Fera FG.
Predicting Penn State's Offensive Scripts since 2005!
that's my reaction, too.
why else would they call it? it didn’t make sense…wait a minute. THEY CALLED IT BECAUSE it didn’t make sense…BRILLIANT!
"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who
Totally agree with
the Astorino comment. Solid tackler, always in the right position, acts as the QB on defense as well. Shows the recruiting services aren’t always spot on.
When you put those black shoes on tomorrow, and you put on that jersey without your name on the back, and you put that plain helmet on, that's tradition. Penn State tradition!
--Who else?
Man, I wish he took that shouda-been INT back for a touchdown against Iowa
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make." - Michael Weinreb
by Mike Pettigano on Oct 17, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a reason the kid wasn't a 4 or 5 star
Drew is undersized. Good football player. But ideally you have a bigger heroback than him.
Not knocking him, as I actually think he’s a solid athlete and he plays bigger than his size. But the recruiting services weren’t entirely off-base in their assessment of him.
True
but I’d rather have a player like Astorino, undersize and smart than a guy like Taylor Mays. Sure he’s huge and lightning fast but he has the football acumen of a field goal post.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Mays
I will never forgive him for trying to murder Norwood in the Rose Bowl.
If Astorino had, say, the size of a Rubin, he’d have been much higher rated by the services. He’d be a better Hero too.
He's trash. I despise everything USC.
I’m so happy that most of the players from those USC teams have been utter failures in the pros.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Ohhh this could be a fun game
what about that doughball LenDale White? He turned out pretty well didn’t he?
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
good pro-player..
but not #2 pick in the draft good.
Vamonos Mantequilla Vamonos!
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 17, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you recall how much
much derision the Texans took for bypassing Bush to take Mario Williams #1? A lot, from all the eggheads.
Yo fumo español
Steve Smith..
has been respectable. Matthews and Cushing have been very good. HGH notwithstanding.
Vamonos Mantequilla Vamonos!
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 17, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I just got to see this. Well done.
Still love him.
You without me is like Harold Melvin without the Blue Notes . . . you'll never go platinum.
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Oct 17, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope that came out as a +1 and not flagged
But SBN has been all sorts of bizarre lately.
You without me is like Harold Melvin without the Blue Notes . . . you'll never go platinum.
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by Adam Collyer on Oct 17, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a crap argument...
It is true that recruiting services cream in their pants over kids that are big, but you can either play or you can’t. If recruiting services evaluated talent based more on game films than on someone’s workout numbers, you would see much different gradings for recruits. A lot of kids are overlooked for a variety of nonsense reasons…they are one inch too short, they run a 4.6 instead of a 4.5, their high school coach didn’t kiss enough ass, etc. None of those factors has a huge bearing on whether a kid is actually a good football player, but to recruiting services, a lot of stock is given to those types of garbage factors.
It’s generally pretty easy to spot a 5 star kid in high school. I don’t give recruiting services any credit for spotting those. Look around the country and you will see that just about every college program places those players at the top of their wishlists. A 90 year-old grandma in the stands can spot those players. But how many players are recruiting services right about after the 5 star guys? It’s a crap-shoot.
It makes no sense to me why a kid who essentially makes two clutch plays in two different sports in high school to win two separate state titles did not get more love from the recruitniks. Performing like that is not luck. That’s great ball-sense, skill, leadership, and BALLS. The dude just knows how to play. Some people just have it. Who gives a shit if he’s 5’11" or 6’3"? Who gives a shit if he runs a 4.5 or a 4.6? Game speed is totally different than running on a track anyway. If your head can’t process information fast enough for you to play at 4.4, then the fact that you were timed that fast doesn’t mean jack. Michael Irvin ran a 4.7…
I guess the point of my entire post is that recruiting services are generally full of shit. If they were any good at evaluating talent, they would have real jobs evaluating talent at a major university or pro team.
I wasn’t really extolling the virtues of a recruiting services, per se. Just pointing out that Drew Astorino is undersized, and would be better if he was bigger. I like him as a player, but he’s not an All-American, won’t be playing on Sundays, and didn’t particularly deserve all that high of a rating coming out of high school.
For the record, I trust our (defensive) coaching staff and their assessment of talent, regardless of star rating. But “stars” are attached to pro potential. Drew Astorino has approximately a zero percent chance of playing on Sundays. Not sure how this is a “crap argument.”
Sorry for the tone of the post...
just reread it and it came have come out pretty stiff. Not intended to be menacing, but I am passionate in my convictions on certain issues.
However, your argument is the same used for a lot of players in the past. I remember that nobody wanted Duffy Cobbs or Ray Isom…obviously, they were both too small…both played in the pros. Also, let’s not forget about guys like Bob Sanders and Jim Leonhard. No one wanted those guys. They were way too small. Those are just a few examples from the top of my head.
I don’t evaluate talent for the NFL. I’d probably agree that Astorino’s chances of playing on Sunday’s is not great. But I wouldn’t count him out entirely. He’ll likely get a tryout from someone…maybe sign as a free agent. Who knows what could happen. In all honesty, I could give a shat about his chances of playing in the NFL.
But I still think the recruiting services are full of shit. They give fans something to talk about in the off season. Nothing more. I’d be shocked if most of those guys have ever even buckled a chin strap.
Apologies accepted
Again, your point is ultimately right that recruiting services . The “smurfs” of the 85-86 team were damn good, but sort of aberrations. Regarding Drew, I can’t stress enough that he is a damn intelligent player, plays bigger than his size, plays faster than his 40 time etc. Not unlike a Cobbs or an Isom. But I don’t believe Cobbs and Isom had the chronic shoulder problems Drew has, which I think are a result of Drew relying on his shoulder too much because he isn’t big enough to wrap up.
I guess to reiterate my point, Drew is a damn good player. But I don’t think recruiting services, in consideration of how difficult it is to measure football intelligence amongst 750+ high school seniors, really get the raw details wrong. Of course they miss intangibles. But that’s not really the point of what they do…
Excellent point about Drew's shoulder.
I still think it’s impossible to evaluate talent without watching a lot of game film. Making an evaluation based on paper numbers is pointless. Even making an evaluation after 7-on-7 drills is pretty futile. It’s kind of like being a large construction firm with great equipment. If you don’t have skilled, intelligent workers to operate the equipment, you’re a bad contractor. Likewise, if you have average equipment, but have excellent intelligence and skilled workers to operate the average equipment, you’re a good contractor. Intangibles present themselves and are evident in game film.
I understand that the recruiting services essentially give you the players with the great equipment, but wtf? Hell, I could do that on my own.
On point
And I don’t think we’ve ever really been in any serious disagreement in this entire discussion. I do think you need a good amount of “NFL-level talent” on both sides of the ball to be a national title contender. Which is the goal of this program once every five years…
Which is to say, I don’t have a problem with Drew Astorino in our D, because he’s good enough, and we got NFL talent elsewhere
Don't be so sure about the playing on Sunday thing..........
he’s getting looks. Some services are comparing him to that guy that played for Wisconsin, Jim Leonhard. Who knows, but a three year starter (I think) at a program like Penn State will get you some interest. I’m not saying it will happen, but stranger things have. I think he could play on a kickoff team somewhere.
When you put those black shoes on tomorrow, and you put on that jersey without your name on the back, and you put that plain helmet on, that's tradition. Penn State tradition!
--Who else?
Astorino is the most underrated player on the whole defense.
He plays like a great Penn State linebacker and I love it. He’s fantastic against the run and very much effective against the pass too.
We are going to take a fairly large step back next year without Sukay and Astorino. And the sad thing is that we’re not mentioning it yet because just this off-season there were still complaints about “white safeties”.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I have never in my life heard a complaint about
“white safeties.” Astorino’s leadership will be missed. Sukay is replaceable. In fact, Willis may be better than Sukay. Sukay doesn’t wrap up on his tackles. He’s good, but not that good.
Kim Herring was the last great safety I remember at PSU.
Yes re: Willis
Willis will make anyone forget Sukay, I anticipate. As far as next year’s Hero, we could always move a LB there or something. I think we’ll be very good in the secondary next year
Mike Hull
was playing hero last year a little bit. But he may be a little too bulky now. However, he does move surprisingly well in pass coverage.
Maybe slide Yanich out there too?
He’s played a little there in practice, I think, over the years. But Hull sounds good enough to me
Willis has some pretty big lapses still.
Sukay maybe goes for the ball too much, but he is a ball hawk in the way we don’t usually see in our secondary. Before the injury last season Sukay was playing great football. I’m disappointed he hasn’t returned to form, but I think if Willis doesn’t cut the mental lapses next year we will notice Sukay’s absence more. There is a lot of backup-QB type love for Willis going around. Part of that is due to him filling in admirably last season. But there was definite dropoff from Sukay’s play to his. Hopefully he works out the kinks.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure Willis will work out the kinks
If he hasn’t already. I’ve been impressed with him in the nickel package. I also anticipate a fair amount nickel this Saturday
Am I misreading your comment?
Are you saying Sukay hasn’t returned to last year’s form? Because I think he’s playing his best football yet.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand you heard the game on the radio Saturday, no?
He was a bit poor in the first half. Solid in the 2nd.
Oh, well, I wouldn't be surprised or anything about that.
The whole defense was, as Chris said, fairly substandard on Saturday.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope we're all prepared for more gray hair.
I’m fairly confident we’ll win this week, but we’re also going to give up a ton of yards and just enough points to make this a close game. After all, that’s what we always do against Northwestern.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sukay hasn't tackled as well.
He was playing the ball superbly last season, and also wrapping up consistently. His tackling has been not as good, and he’s missed a ball or two when he’s gambled. But I still think he has been very good this year.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Willis is still reasonably young.
He played very well last year with essentially no experience. I think he will get better. Sukay reminds me of Scirrotto. Good, but not great. I have a real pet peeve over guys that are not sure tacklers. Sukay is not. Every time he has to make a tackle, I hold my breath.
I don't know. Maybe I'm not seeing enough footage this year.
But I really think Sukay is a fine tackler. He’s no Ray Isom, but still.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I've noticed that
he squats down when going low for a tackle, and is straight up and down.
If he leaned forward and played a few inches higher he wouldnt lose his balance.
Coker and Bolden did it to him because of his low-squat stance.
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I'm actually interested in seeing Willis at the Hero
He likes to lay the wood, and keeping his speed and penchant for putting a hat on guys might be a good fit. I’d like to see it.
If you pair him with a converted corner at free safety, or heck, even more Amos back to his natural position of Safety, that’d be a pretty good combo. Alex Kenny should be ready by next year, and we’ll still have Thomas and Morris.
I've seen it here.
Trust me. Just do a search for “white safeties” and you might some old threads.
Thankfully, those opinions were strictly in the minority, but I have seen it.
As for Sukay, he’s replaceable, but he’s stepped into the playmaker role Tom Bradley wants from his players. That won’t be easy to replace within a year or so. And his failures to wrap up are generally the exceptions in his play. He’s a very, very fine safety.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I have always been a big fan of Astorino.
Even when people were giving him crap on here, I’ve remained an Astorino fan. I think he’s underrated and under appreciated.
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I was there on Saturday
in EGU. The end around made me want to go into the box and punch Galen/Jay in the face. Same with Dayyyyyyvon’s end around. Horrible, horrible calls. (Although, truth be told, from my vantage point if Smith holds onto that ball, he had the corner). And McGloin’s ball to Belton was nothing but a horrid decision. That ball didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being completed. Unlucky bounce to be picked off but a TERRIBLE decision.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Throws like this are 100% of the reason that McGloin is not the sole quarterback
He is careless with the football and never lets the coaching staff forget it. Two picks in the endzone in two weeks is no accident.
by kijana's acl on Oct 17, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Other side of this: if they don’t trust him in the red zone why are they calling pass plays? Also his Int/Att ratio (2/112) is right in line with the rest of the conference (Cousins: 4/173. Vandenberg 4/185. Persa 2/98).
by Kevin Powers on Oct 17, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I haven't watched the other QBs enough
to know the circumstances of their INTs but what gets me is the boneheadedness of McGloins. Both picks this year have come on awful, terrible, no good, very bad decisions.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Agree on McGloin's boneheaded decisions
Also, he can consider himself extremely lucky that he hasn’t been picked off 10 more times this year. The point is that the two decisions that led to those interceptions weren’t outliers compared with the rest of his decisions this season. For every 3 good decisions he makes, he makes a forehead slapping, groan inducingly bad one to balance it out.
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by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
IMO neither decision was bad. He had guys in single coverage with space to make a play.
They were both really tough throws that he’s made several times in the past. But both were very underrthrown. And that’s why McGloin’s not a great QB. His accuracy comes and goes, and you never know when it’s going to come or go. And he takes a few too many shots despite his hit-or-miss accuracy – especially when he gets ‘hot’ and over confident.
The throw to Belton
was a bad decision. He was blanketed and there was Safety help over the top. There just was no way that ball was getting completed. It was, the very definition, of a bad decision. And the Moye throw was a bad decision because he threw it late. Moye was open, key word was, before he threw the ball.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
That Safety got there late - he wouldn't have been able to make a play
if the ball had been thrown to the right spot – towards the back corner of the endzone. That ball was as terribly underthrown as Bolden’s picked off pass intended for Moye vs. Alabama.
The corner fell down after the ball was thrown.
He was perfectly covered. There was nowhere to go with that ball. Points are at a premium this season. There is no ball placement where throwing that ball was a good decision, in my opinion.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Y'all just hate McGloin
Because people around here think it’s “cool”
I don't hate McGloin.
I don’t think he’s very good. But I certainly don’t hate him. And even if someone does hate him, it doesn’t make that decision any better. It was perfect coverage.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re going to have a hard time finding fans of any team who think their QB’s interceptions were non-boneheaded, good decisions. That’s kind of the nature of interceptions. And FWIW I actually disagree. He’s had some really bad decisions that were almost interceptions, but the two this year are an underthrown ball into tight but doable coverage (it’s almost always going to be tight coverage on that play call, and we know the play call wasn’t his).
And we don’t have to rehash a pointless argument, but I’m not terribly upset about the pick on Saturday. I understand the other side, but anytime (coughnebraska) a ball is inadvertently kicked by a guy falling to the ground the universe is making it happen, not a walk on QB.
by Kevin Powers on Oct 17, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Good rebuttal
Maybe it wasn’t as bad as I thought. I’ll have to look at the replay but watching it live from the seats, as soon as he threw it, I was shouting “no no no” and then watched the ball get kicked up in the air like that made my stomach churn.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
I think the important point on the Iowa int
is not that he decided to throw it at all. It’s that he decided to throw it too late. Way, way too late. He must have stared in that direction for 3 full seconds seconds.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I tend to agree
But, the playcalling….
If PSU is going to run three guys in the endzone, even without Moye. Smith and Belton, who are both shorter than me at 5"10" should not be two of the three guys.
Robinson, Brown and Felder are all three better choices. And where was Kersey, the fast guy, getting Moye’s routes. They gave them to Brown in first half, and i like Brown a lot but he is not a stretch the field guy. When they put back in the middle and medium range throws he looked great in the second half.
My grammer skills need improved.
All I know is that we need a freaking tight end already.
Oh, and the – wait for it – SCREEN PASS.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Haplea is getting better each week
He isn’t quite as good of a blocker as Szcerba but is improving. Szcerba just needs to relax and play. The kid can play, has all the tools. He is playing like the player he is. Good to great skill set for the position but no experience. This is his first game speed action in his career and it shows
My grammer skills need improved.
to continue
I mean who are we trying to compare McGloin to? Or for that matter Bolden? As far as INTs go. I just want to say the “bad” INT’s I’ve watched from good QBs.
Persa— last night from Iowa was a bad INT. I mean if McGloin or Bolden throws that we are burning the house down; but a “good” QB like Persa throws it and its “wow, thats a bad decision, but he’ll make up for it”
Boyd (Clemson) — The Ultimate DERP. That was a pick, but he is a phenomenal QB numbers and plays wise.
Scheelahasse (sp?) – He had a complete route breakdown INT vs. OSU, but as a passer he’s very efficient.
Now I am only giving 3 examples, but I think the issue is with our QBs/Offense we aren’t so sure that they can make up for a INT. And I think we are starting to doubt our Defense to keep points off the board, because at some point we are waiting for them to wear down and give it up. I think we are taking it harder because we’ve only cracked 35 points once.
Predicting Penn State's Offensive Scripts since 2005!
One of the problems with the Purdue game is the comparison to the Iowa game.
Here is the issue. Iowa didn’t make a play the entire game. Purdue made several. That’s really pretty much it. Other than the kick return, I don’t have a huge problem with how the defense played. The first long pass was perfectly defended, Purdue’s quarterback just made a play. It happens.
The McGloin pass was intercepted, not because is a bad decision, but because of a bad bounce. And oh yea, they ran it back for close to 60 yards. They made a play. Sometimes we forget that the other team is trying to win too. Yeah but, blah, blah, blah, our kid tried to make a play, their kid got lucky and made a better one. The proper analogy is lambasting Iowa’s defense for not properly accounting for the bounce on the Bolden throw.
I think that the Purdue game was closer than the Iowa game because Purdue played better than Iowa did. Keep in mind, Iowa never really forced us to do anything. If anything, McGloin’s bad decision was a risk predicated on trying to put the game away. We never had to do that against Iowa, because they were kind enough to let Silas Redd jam the ball down their throats with the game on the line.
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
by jesse. on Oct 17, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Bolden's pass last week should have been an incompletion
McGloin’s pass this week to Belton should have been a clean interception. That it was only an interception after hitting a leg is the fortunate part.
I hate saying stuff like that because I agree with everything you say here, but I didn’t like your characterization and it’s always easier to be motivated to comment when you want to disagree. But otherwise, you’re right on. Iowa might be a better team, but Purdue was much better in their game plan AND execution.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Oct 17, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That it was only an interception after hitting a leg is the fortunate part.
Actually, that’s the unfortunate part. Had it been a clean interception, the ball would have been inside the five, or at worst, a touchback. Because of the fluky nature of the interception there was a huge return which was more damaging than the interception itself.
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
I agree with all of this
except the position that the throw was not a bad decision. Please watch it again, because the receiver was well covered. Add to that the fact that the pick took points off the board and he did the same exact thing the week before, and you have a “Bad Idea Jeans” commercial waiting to happen.
by kijana's acl on Oct 18, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I've said both
“it was a bad decision…” and “obviously he would not have thrown the ball in retrospect”.
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
He's been good outside the red zone for the past few weeks
We simply do not have an offense that can afford to piss away 3-7 points against good teams. It almost burned us against Purdue, it would certainly do so against Illinois, O$U, Nebraska and Wisconsin.
This isn’t a Team Bolden v. Team McGloin comment. This is a: “if McGloin is going to be the guy, then he needs to be a lot more %^&#ing careful with the ball in the red zone if he wants to seize the job by the neck” comment.
by kijana's acl on Oct 17, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That absolutely is why he is not the guy
Everything else points to McGloin. If he could be a caretaker, instead of always swinging for the fences, then there would be more joy in Mudville he would be the guy.
by kijana's acl on Oct 17, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I was ok with this INT
mainly because we shouldn’t have gotten that INT to begin with. I just viewed this as football karma and gave McGloin the free pass to throw the INT.
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I give Dayyyyyvon points for bravery
He looks like he wandered in from a pee wee game but plays with no fear.
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by letsgopsu on Oct 17, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just peed in my pants.
Hilarry-ass! I’m almost certain that Jay and Galen are just playing Tecmo Bowl and picking plays in that manner. We essentially run 5 plays:
1) Sideline fly
2) Screen pass
3) Draw
4) Dive
5) End around / reverse
Tecmo Bowl only has 4 plays
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by Kunza on Oct 17, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Our screen pass doesn't count as a play
it looks more like a fire drill
we're all here, but we're not all there
If Penn State lost that ball and I went on a three state killing spree, not a jury in this nation would have convicted if I showed them the game film.
If this was the only line in the whole game wrap is still would have been the best one of the year.
Plus you’re a lawyer so I know it’s true.
by Kevin Powers on Oct 17, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
After Casey Anthony is there anything that a jury can convict a person of?
by JRM397 on Oct 17, 2011 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
in other words
Have a real good time?
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Oct 17, 2011 5:35 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
McG better than Bolden during Purdue game = highly questionable call.
Bolden didn’t look horrid this week and IMO based on the play of McG should have received more reps. Bolden threw at least one incomplete pass to avoid a sack (+ play for QB) and ran pretty well. For the life of me I don’t see how people say how McG has gotten better this year. He stared down receivers and is very lucky more of his balls were not picked in this game. I would really like the staff to take better advantage of the athletic ability of Bolden……I think he is a guy who might play better after he gets into the flow of the game. He needs more QB draws and possibly some option calls to the corner with Redd or Green.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
It's really time for both sides to stop getting so upset.
We don’t have any good QBs to play right now. When you learn to accept that, you will have more fun with this season. Good, hard nosed, clutch defense, 7 headed rushing attack, gray hair, win. That’s how it goes.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Welcome back to mid '80s Penn State football.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I am enjoying it.
At least when the game is over. During the game, a bit of stress.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
this team
early in the season was making me contemplate going to my doctor for a Xanax prescription. Now I’ve sort of embraced their identity
It's good enough to win the Big Ten.
To win the Big Ten, you have to play fundamentally strong football (Which is very broad), but to narrow it down a bit, you have to be physically tough. I haven’t seen a Penn State team this physically good since 2005. Almost everyone on the team seems to actively enjoy and excel in the categories of tackling, hitting, blocking, defeating blocks, and generally playing like every great Penn State team ever. And, of course, when Penn State loses, it’s almost invariably because the other team was a more physical team (Northwestern in 2004, for instance, was not beating us in space, they were pounding Noah Herron up the middle). Alabama does that to everyone but we definitely weren’t as behind them as were last year.
I see only two teams who can possible challenge us: Michigan State and Wisconsin (Yes, I’m still totally underwhelmed by the Cornhuskers’ physicality this year). And if we play Michigan State, I’m fairly confident Still, Hill, et al, could defeat their offensive line.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i agree 100% with this
I think this is the best, concise explanation of what’s going on with this team and the Big 10 in general this year.
And since you like to clown my adoration of Brody Hoke, if you watch Michigan play, the biggest difference he’s brought is fundamentals and a certain physicality to their defense.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
True.
How long until Brady’s staff comes up with an actual coherent offensive strategy?
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
When Robinson leaves and there is no more, OMG this guy is so good I have to play him.
You couldn’t not play Robinson on that team but with DR you have what it is. A spectactular athlete playing football. Sometimes he is unstoppable, others the athleticism doesn’t make up for demands and you can’t just run him every play because he will break in two.
My grammer skills need improved.
In my opinion, the throw to avoid a sack was not a good play for Bolden because he threw as he was going to the ground. I remember holding my breath has he threw that one. Those are the weak throws that end up as pick sixes.
I am all for the throws to avoid the sack while the qb has both feet under them and the ball ends up in the stands.
by JRM397 on Oct 17, 2011 11:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you on this one
I think I yelled out loud ‘Oh God, he’s just pulled a McGloin! Damnit, damnit damnit.’
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that quote sums up our QB situation quite well, actually.
by Chris Grovich on Oct 17, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
How about this.
We’re more than halfway through the season and the coaching staff has yet to name a full time starting QB.
For good reason
Both of them struggle. Name McGloin full time starter and we start giving the ball away like door prizes. For evidence of that, rewatch all of the series with him- you will see a 3:1 ratio of competent versus terrible decision making. Name Bolden full time starter and we might never get into double digits.
If anything, the struggle we see from both of these QBs, as well as the ups and downs each week for both of them (just think if Joe had named a starter after the Bama game) is evidence that the coaching staff have probably made the right decision to continue on this path. Its tough to give them kudos here because its so frustrating to watch, but they seem to have made the best possible decision out of a choice of 3 bad decisions.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ball was low and didn't have air
very low chance of it being picked. As for the situation……the only “upset” here is that McG doesn’t have the same short leash Bolden does. Robo is not going to get any better given the amount of series he is getting. He has admittedly regressed but still has a ton more potential upside than McG….who continues to throw into double and triple coverage. I think he gets hurt by the play calling implemented when he is in the game and would like more run-oriented creative calling (per my previous post). I am on Team Run right now and expect both our QB’s to play……I would just like the same standard applied to both.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
When Bolden's play comes anywhere near matching that potential
he’ll get more playing time.
Also, do you watch other college football games? Do you watch NFL games? Whole games – not just highlights? ALL QBs throw into double and triple coverage at times. ALL QBs stare down WRs at times. NO QB only throws to wide open receivers all the time.
by PSUEnrg02 on Oct 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was very enlightening
Your analysis seems to not accurately reflect that McG has a bad habit of staring down receivers and throwing pics. He is very lucky he doesn’t have more on the year. He also doesn’t have the arm strength of many NFL QB’s that do throw into double and triple coverage. Did you watch the FL game last year……the whole game…..all 5 picks?
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
quit bringing up last year. He is playing much better this year
At times he does stare down guys, as do most college QB’s, but he looks off and pump fakes waaaaay more than Bolden, who gets the snap, and looks at one guy. I don’t even know if I’ve seen Bolden check down and the couple times he has, he can’t hit the swing pass to the back out of the backfield.
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Oct 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I respectfully disagree that he is playing better this year
and I think bringing up last year and for that matter McG’s continuing trends this year is very pertinent. You can have your blind McG love if you want but for those of us living in the here and now……he has faced ONE high-quality D this year in Bama. He sucked (ROYALLY 1-10-0) and hasn’t looked all that much better against Indiana, Iowa and Purdue. He continues to make serious mistakes in the redzone and as another poster noted…..is lucky he doesn’t have 10 INTs on the year. I FULLY CONCEDE Robo is not playing well Either!!!! That said I maintain that his leash has been much shorter than McG’s and that IMO that is not helping his development at all.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
2 interceptions in 112 attempts is pretty decent.
I am not seeing what you are. and fuck you for the blind McG love statement. I have never and didn’t in my statement above say anything that would remotely make me sound like I support one QB over the other. Have fun living in your here and now. You use hyperbole and act like you are the only one that watches the game. Sorry, I DISAGREE WITH YOU AND I AM ALOWED TO DO THAT. I don’t think McGLoin has been bad. I also understand why the coaches haven’t made a choice because neither QB has really stepped up. enjoy your hate.
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Oct 17, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And who the hell is rec'ing that? Seriously?
by Chris Grovich on Oct 17, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Not sure.
But I’m rec’ing you, big boy.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But seriously,
you should probably censor these guys.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Really.......let's not get overly sensitive here
Don’t see how anything I said deserved a sensor and while I disagree with BMAN13’s rant……..it isn’t anything that deserved a sensor and was more more tame than some actual posts. He’s passionate about his position and I can respect that.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
The censor thing is a long running joke I have with . . .
well, myself. The “But seriously” was a non-serious comedic device to aid the joke.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 18, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He also doesn’t have the arm strength of many NFL QB’s
Thank god we’re not scheduled to play any NFL games this year.
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
by jesse. on Oct 17, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, this is easily the most irrelevant thing anyone ever brings up.
“He won’t play on Sundays.” Who the eff cares? I want our players to play, and play well, on Saturdays. The only time I care is when the Pats draft them. And it isn’t often enough (see, e.g. Wiz, Lee, Poz, Connor, and all the guys I wanted).
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw a thing on CBS last week
Where there were a few quotes from NFL scouts about Alabama looking like an NFL defense.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
When they say that the SEC is the best conference in America,
a fair number of the folks I live around down here would include the AFC and NFC in the field.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Haha. Sounds like
when they say most colloquial populations in America, a fair number of the folks you live around would be included (not including you).
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Colloquial?
Brutha, that ain’t even the half of it.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
The reason Bolden doesn't play more
is he simply is not good. I was in #teamBolden. Then I was in #teamjustpickone but now I’m in #teamitdoesn’treallymatter. Honestly, Joe is right. It really doesn’t matter who QBs because neither are particularly good. Both make some good throws followed by stinkers.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
He looked pretty good on the touchdown drive
He got, what, two more series after that? I’m drinking enough to be comfortable with McGloin right now, but it really does seem like McGloin’s mistakes (and there are a few each week) are considered less egregious – by the coaching staff – than Bolden’s.
by kijana's acl on Oct 17, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, his second drive was phenomenal
Then he went and shit the bed on the next drive. The flashes of brilliance are there- but consistency is not his forte. When/If he gets to that point, its clear that he can be something really special. Of course, the same thing could have been said about Morelli.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Although I wouldn’t say classify McGloin’s flashes as ‘brilliance’. He has flashes of being an adequate game manager, but I haven’t seen him make anything close to the type of throw that Bolden made to set up the touchdown on the second drive of the game.
And to be clear, if McGloin could be consistent as a game manager, I think its clear that the job would be his. But I don’t think anyone would argue that McGloin could ever be something really special- but that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t be a winner. He could be a Matt Leinart, I guess.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a circular argument (for me)
Game managers don’t show flashes of anything. I think McGloin has the tools to be a good game manager, but refuses to adapt the attitude necessary to succeed in that role. He is still the guy who gets upset with himself for “settling” on a 20-yard game to Brown when a much more dangerous pass (down the middle with likely double coverage) may have been an option. I think those missed opportunities bother him more than the interceptions. And I think that mindset is the only thing that keeps him from locking down the job.
by kijana's acl on Oct 17, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
"same standard applied to both"
This is being ticky tack. Every qb has had more than enough opportunity to shine. To argue that Bolden is being treated unfairly is ridiculous. If Bolden ever puts together back to back decent drives my guess is the coaching staff gives him more playing time until then getting the 1st qtr to himself is more than he has earned.
by JRM397 on Oct 17, 2011 2:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good overall assessment
But not sure the McGloin is “slightly better, I guess” comment is needed. He has been better, on the whole, at leading this team to W’s and scoring points – and he’s been proving it since last season. I’d take him and an INT EVERY game over Bolden and one/two good drives surrounded by a dozen + three and outs. Doesn’t anyone remember Boldens play last year before McGloin saved the season?! And the fact that hes regressed from there really says something and furthers the argument for McGloin. I guess id just like to see some more optimism for #11.
What’s really frustrating to me about this team that keeps “surviving” is that I feel we have the players to be very good – like 10-2 or 11-1 good – but b/c of the current coaching regime we’ll see something closer to 9-3 or 8-4. I hope I’m wrong, but I just can’t see this team living up to its potential, and that sucks.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Have you watched the other teams in this conference?
The possiblity for 10 wins is still very much in play.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
The possibility for 11 wins is still very much in play.
We cannot discount that until after this Saturday’s game in East Lansing. Michigan State’s team consists of a bunch of douchebags, but they are much better defenders than Nebraska’s legendary five time national champion OMG Blackshirts.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with you, that it's in play. There is not one team that cannot be beat.
But it is probably pretty remote for the way this team plays. I expect a very winnable game to be lost due to our thin margins. However, I have not lost faith in a 4-1 finish. It’s not just possible, it really could happen.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I love your optimism
But im not sure how you could possibly think this team and this offense will win all of our last four games. The “well, everyone else is average” argument is ok in supporting a win or two, but not four in a row – one of those being against a potentially top five team in Wisky
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 12:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Our D and special teams could win those games
And our offense isn’t 2004 inept. Silas Redd does have something like 3 or 4 straight 100 yard games.
That and our Defense has already taken the ball away 17 times this year. That equals last years total. The games won’t be pretty, but with our defense they are winnable.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Individually
We could win those games, but not sure D and special teams win you four in a row with our schedule. That’s a stretch
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps because every team on our schedule with the exception of Wisconsin is known to have weaknesses just as daunting if not more daunting than ours? Add to that the fact that Wisconsin hasn’t been tested and is still something of an unknown quantity defensively and I can’t possibly understand how anyone can think we don’t have a chance of winning all of our last four games.
Moreover, I never said we were going to win all of those games.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe you didn't say "going to win"
But that seemed to be the implication from a previous comment you had. And while all the games are winnable, I don’t see us “surviving” with the scrappy offense we have to win back to back to back to back games
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you have to read my comments fairly liberally to get that out of them.
I’ll go on the record now: I don’t think Penn State is going to beat Wisconsin, and I think Penn State has a very good chance of dropping a game to either Ohio State, Illinois, or Nebraska, but I think the safe bet for the rest of the season is probably 4-1. I am not at all impressed by our remaining opponents.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
So we're in agreement to an extent
I also think we’ll lose to Wisconsin and most likely drop a game between the other three – but you said 11-1 is “still in play” and I’m not sure that’s reasonable. I mean, a national championship is technically still in play, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to say so.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 5:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, why isn't it reasonable?
If a 11-1 record is technically still in play, then, by definition, it is still in play. So how can it be unreasonable?
The fact that Penn State looks to be clearly worse to only one more team (Wisconsin) is basically just an addendum to this.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because it's possible
Doesnt mean its likely. “Still in play” implied (to me) that 11-1 was a reasonable outcome, which I don’t think is reasonable to say, given that you (and I) think the team will more likely be 9-3.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 9:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, I have
And 10/11 wins are both in play – but i don’t see us getting there if we continue to play the way we have. And again, I feel like this team could be very, very good – but I’m just not optimistic that we’re going to see the improvement needed to do better than 2-2 to finish up the season.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why?
I’m not about to run through all of the weaknesses inherent in Illinois, Ohio State, and Nebraska, but they are there, they are many, and I can’t fathom how anyone can think any of those teams are obviously better than us.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you mean, why?
You’ve watched penn state play this season. And yeah, i inderstand most teams (especially in the B1G) have issues on one or both sides of the ball, but between the inconsistent play from our QBs, the redzone issues and poor play calling at times – I don’t feel that we have what it’s going to take to win all those games. Are they winnable individually, heck yeah – but are we going 4-0 – i dont think so based on the first 7 games ive seen this year. And thats partly why I think we’ll finish 9-3 or 8-4. And thats what frustrates me, b/c I think we could do better
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I've watched Penn State play.
I’ve also watched those other teams play. We are better than them.
"Who do you think you are? You’re the son-of-a-bitch that sat at that desk over there and fired Johnny Cash. Let it go down in history that you’re the dumbest son-of-a-bitch I’ve ever met." - Merle Haggard
by ReadingRambler on Oct 17, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That may be true
But as long as we have a 2 headed monster at QB, I don’t think we’ll get the play we need from that position to win more than 2 of our last 4 games. Of course, we’ll have to wait and see what happens.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
10 Wins-Possible
But the margin for error with this team is razor thin. Total margin of victory in wins against “real” teams so far this season is 25.
tO$U sucks-ALWAYS the right choice!
McGloin didn't save the season
Michigan’s and NW’s and Minnesota’s defenses saved the season.
He’s probably the better option right now, but the reason he looked so fantastic in the middle of last year is that we were playing the worst defenses in major college football.
One thing I always think about when this comes up: would PSU have beaten NW if they stuck with Bolden for that whole game?
by Kevin Powers on Oct 17, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And to add, something that hasn’t really sunk in until this season because I’ve never thought about it from this angle, but beating bad teams is an important skill in college football. This isn’t the NFL where most of the teams you play are at least very good and sometimes great. In college you have at least three and sometimes four total body bags OOC, then at least another 2-3 in conference, plus another 1-3 teams with fatal flaws. We can talk about the Big Ten being down, but every team in every conference is playing at least 6-8 crappy teams. You need to be able to win those games 100% of the time because a loss to one of them will sink your entire season. Being “better against bad defenses,” even if true (I find it flimsy, we don’t have the data), is a pretty good skill.
by Kevin Powers on Oct 17, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
They were down 7-0.
It’s not inconceivable. McGloin dug them further into the hole with some of the worst play I’ve ever seen from a QB. Would Bolden have come back from a 21 point deficit? Probably not. But the offense was moving the ball and they may not have accrued a 21 point deficit.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
But,
we also wouldn’t have been in a 21 point hole.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not
Up until Bolden got pulled last year, he gave me reason to have absolutely no faith in him to put points up for that team, especially against semi-decent teams. I don’t think Mac is amazing – far from it – I just think he’s clearly proven himself to be the better QB (which is still bad, I agree), so I just have a hard time understanding any pro-Bolden sentiment.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Most of the points Mac put up against semi-decent teams last year went onto the opponents’ side of the scoreboard.
He’s the better choice now because he’s done a better job of curbing his deficiencies than Bolden has; he was a disaster against real competition last year and may yet be again this year. Hopefully the vastly improved run game means we have less need to put the ball in his hands.
It's not necessarily pro-Bolden though,
to acknowledge that McGloin was every bit, or more, responsible for that 21 point deficit. In remembering the heroic comback people tend to forget that he dug the hole he climbed out of.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. He deserves kudos
for the 2-minute drill at the end of the first half. The second half? Our running game started to actually be productive. Very productive, IIRC
It's crazy that we're even doing this for the millionth time.
Watch the games. There is no net difference between our two bad QBs right now. They do different things to the same result.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh I agree 100%, I dislike both QBs equally. Just saying that we won the NW game last year in large part because of an excellent running game. Which we’ll probably need to be productive again this weekend.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear
Nono.
Not getting frustrated with you. Getting frustrated with myself. Why do I keep getting sucked in? Both are crappy. And we’re still a pretty good team. I need to stop. But it’s like crack.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lol
And I’m sorry, but I totally disagree. No matter how I think about it, I come back to McGloin being a noticeably better option. And if we’re going to go as far as saying they both suck – well – McGloin noticeably sucks less! (now i really have to go)
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok, good luck being productive.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. You have to have a pretty terrible view of the coaching if you think McGloin is the clear choice and it’s not being made. I think they see what I see, two equally basd options.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't very productive!
And I don’t want to say I have a terrible view of the coaches, but they did choose McGloin last year over Bolden – and this year, most would agree Bolden has regressed a bit while McGloin is still McGloin. So if anything, there’s more of a separation between the two now – furthering my support for McGloin.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My guess is no. The score was 21-0. I have never seen Bolden have 3 good drives in a game let alone td drives. And we prob wouldn’t have beaten michigan either. It doesn’t matter if the defense you’re playing against sucks if you throw the ball 20 ft over the wr head. A couple more 3 and outs against michigan and that is all their offense would have needed to win.
by JRM397 on Oct 17, 2011 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Would it have been 21-0 if McGloin never comes in though?
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
did you miss Bolden getting lit twice on the exact same blitz and rushing a pass and getting drilled the other time they ran the blitz?
Had he stayed in that game he would have had another concussion before the half.
My grammer skills need improved.
I saw that.
I also saw the offense moving with him until that fumble. Then I saw McGloin come in and be just flat out TERRIBLE. The point is, very simply, that McGloin contributed to the deficit, more so than Bolden. So asking if Bolden would have come back from down 21 is not the right question, in my opinion. Asking if they would still win is valid. But I don’t think he would have had to come back from a 21 point deficit if McGloin never came in.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The TV Guide review of McGloin's performance that day
Cheers – to Matt McGloin for leading the Nittany Lions to Joe Paterno’s 400th win by overcoming a 21 point deficit in defeating NW.
Jeers – to Matt McGloin for not leading the Nittany Lions to Joe Paterno’s 400th win by overcoming a 7 point deficit in defeating NW.
by kijana's acl on Oct 18, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and FWIW
Bolden had as good of numbers as McGloin at Minnesota before he went down…so there’s no way for us to know how he would have played in that game, and then vs. Michigan & NW.
Fire Dan Snyder
While I agree with michigan, bolden did play against nw and it didn’t look good. I think its fairly safe to say we lose the nw game if bolden played the whole time. Of course, its possible bolden could go off and lead 5 td drives too, but there’s no past experience to make me think he would have done that.
by JRM397 on Oct 17, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think Bolden
Beats NW, Michigan and Minnesota last year, so yeah – I think McGloin saved the season.
I just wish McGloin was the 4 star recruit coming out of highschool and bolden was the walk on — because we wouldn’t have had 75% of these discussions or the qb controversy at the level that we’ve had.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 1:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But we'd still have two bad QBs who can't lock down the job.
God save the run.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If McGloin had been a 4* QB and had the job outright this year
The discussion would have been ‘Wrong choice, Bolden should get a shot at QB’.
Especially, especially, after the Alabama game.
Also, refer to last year after the Ohio State game. And that was after a large faction of the fanbase fully supported McGloin, regardless of (and maybe in spite of) his star rating. This isn’t a question of people being hard on McGloin and not Bolden because of their recruiting services. There has been equal critisism of both due to neither being very good.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't have been "wrong choice"
And Bolden most likely would have gotten a chance to prove himself – but it would have been short lived with McGloin becoming the starter last year into this year.
My point was just that McGloin has proven to be the better quarterback, but people still aren’t sold on him and a lot of it has to do with the negative perception of him b/c hes a walk on. I understand that some will point out Bama, OSU and Florida, but those were losses regardless of the QB. It’s the other games on our schedule that McGloin pulls ahead of Bolden – IMO – and the eye test confirms it (to me and my friends at least).
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't have a negative perspective because a walk on
I have a negative perspective because he makes terrible decisions at an alarming rate. Much of this is because he routinely overestimates his ability. The offense may be slightly more efficient with him under center, but not by an appreciable margin. Also, the time he sits out while Bolden plays is time that saves him from himself. I haven’t seen anything different out of McGloin this year to make me believe that he has changed (at least in terms of on the field decision making).
And I would like to point out I’m not in favor of either QB. Actually, I think, as blasphemous as it sounds, the coaches are right to continue to play both as neither is ready to be a full time D1 starting QB.
Also I disagree on that Florida loss. The entire loss was on McGloin’s shoulders. There is no other way to cut it. Florida was terrible. The only points they scored were either directly or a result of turnovers (read, 5 ints).
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
An alarming rate?!
And “saves him from himself”…let’s not get too dramatic here. You even concede that the offense is more efficient under McGloin – so why is it difficult to then say he’s the better option for the team? Bolden has proved that he’s not the leader that McGloin is on the field, he isn’t as vocal, he has a harder time scoring, and has his own issues with the pigskin…… Not to mention that the team responds better to Mac – so whats making you think he doesn’t deserve the j.o.b. The sooner the coaches let McGloin take the ropes, the better chance this team has towards the end of the year – sadly, it appears this may not happen.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I stand by it
I counted a good 5 or 6 times during the game that I had to hold my breath because of his penchance for poor decision making. He was only punished once, but that was a 6-14 point swing in a tight game. And he did the same thing last week. And made the same number (if not more) of poor decisions.
And I did say the offense was slightly more efficient under McGloin. The difference isn’t appreciable enough that I’m comfortable with turning the ball over an addition 1-5 times more a game.
Also, if Joe doesn’t think he’s more deserving of the job, I’m going to go ahead and trust his decision making. The coaches get to watch every practice in addition to the games and see the players interacting with each other in practice, games, the locker room, the sidelines, and while watching game film. There are probably a number of reasons, outside of the poor decision making during the games, that he hasn’t won the job outright.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I thinkHe'ss been
Appreciably (word?) better, but we’ll agree to disagree here. And maybe the coaches are doing the right thing – I don’t know. The only reason I can think Bolden is still playing is because if he sits, they may be worried that he leaves the program – leaving us Shane as a backup (which is scary from the few snaps I’ve seen him take)
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that point has been overstated
While its true that the stunt the Bolden (more likely his father) pulled at the end of the year was bush league, I really don’t believe that it has any bearing on the decision making regarding starting QBs this year. Also, had he been granted the transfer request last year, its likely Newsome is still on the squad as a back-up this year.
JVP has a 60 year decision making history that make it clear that he doesn’t put any player above the program.
Next year, Skyler Morningwey, PJ (once the academic clerical error is cleared up) McGloin and Bolden will all be competing for the starting job.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fixed that
Next year, Skyler Morningwey, PJ (once the academic clerical error is cleared up)McGloinand Bolden will all be competing for the starting job
.
Next year McGloin is going pro...
*
by Smee on Oct 17, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well if McGloin passes your "eye test"
you might want to think about getting glasses. He makes terrible decisions and is constantly late getting the ball where it needs to be. Granted, I think he is playing QB better than Bolden is at this point but that is more of a testament to what Bolden is doing than what he himself is doing. Being the “better option” right now is like being the tallest Oompa Loompa.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
The points have just been that
He’s been the better QB – so he should be the starter. That is all. I never said hes Kerry Collins reincarnated – he’s an average QB – but he also is our best option.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bama and OSU maybe
But Florida’s only means of scoring was intercepting McGloin for touchdowns or short fields. 13 points would have won that game without the disaster at QB. It’s almost impossible to overstate the extent to which McGloin gave that game away.
Yeah
That was ugly – and maybe Bolden would have faired better – but after what McGloin did for the team last year, I thought he deserved to finish out that game.
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It would have taken a superhuman effort for Bolden to have fared worse. Deserve’s got nothing to do with it — if you want people to take you seriously when you say McGloin’s the better option now, it would help to admit that he should have been yanked in the Florida game.
I gotta get back to work y'all
But one game doesn’t define a quarterback. The seasons play showed us that he was our best option, regardless of how ugly some of those losses were. This year is no different
by stewsplace on Oct 17, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You know...
pretty much everyone on our defense sucked on ice last year. Should we bench them all too, or should we limit our evaluation to how they are playing this year?
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
by jesse. on Oct 17, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not fair at all.
You are performing the same analysis that you are accusing the other side of engaging in. We would neither limit our evaluation to how they played last year, nor would you completely ignore what they did last year. You would use all the information you had available. The defense has improved leaps and bounds, so it is fair to minimize what they did last year.
However, look at how McGloin played last year. You would look to see if he improved, especially on the worst tendencies. In my opinion, he has not. You use all that information. Same goes for Bolden. Not a productive exercise in either case. We knew our QBs sucked and our defense is awesome. What did we just accomplish?
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 17, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
My comment was primarily directed at the comment about the Florida game.
Pretty much all McGloin hate is based on bad halves, literally halves not even full games, against Ohio State in Columbus and against Florida. Kerry Collins, who was a junior and quarterbacking an infinitely more talented team (pretty much the 1994 offense, just 10 months earlier), got his ass handed to him in Columbus.
I won’t continue to rehash the interception last week, luck obviously played a factor, just like obviously he would not have thrown the ball in retrospect. I think that saying McGloin hasn’t improved at all is rote advocacy, he’s done a much better job of taking care of the ball this year versus last. McGloin is flawed, but just like last year there is a matter of assumption of risk that we simply have to deal with if we want to move the ball with any kind of consistency.
Yeah, I get it. Our plan is to show up with our fantastic defense and let the chips fall where they may.
McGloin was terrible the entire Florida game
It’s science.
by kijana's acl on Oct 18, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, I think there is a characterization problem here.
You assume that I am advocating against him, when in fact I could, and do, have unbiased reasoning behind my point of view. McGloin is still capable of keeping the offense moving. That has always been his strength. He is also still capable of completely whiping out those gains. You say he has had “bad halves.” Well when one bad half whipes out the entire progress of the best half of his career, I think anyone who calls that a bad game is quite more than justified. And you can’t say that’s what happened in Florida (one bad half). Florida had seven scores total and they required the offense to move the ball an average of less than 21 yards.
The fact of the matter is he hasn’t had the opportunity to show us he has improved against the defenses truly capable of putting an exclamation point on it. He threw 10 passes against Alabama, and I didn’t see any improvement. In fact, I think there is a very strong argument to be made that he has regressed. The past two weeks he has displayed those same tendencies against two very bad defenses. None of that is advocating. Bolden has regressed. If McGloin had improved in the manner you suggest, he would be the exact starter this team needs, and he would be our sole QB.
In my opinion, the McGloin indicator is probably a matter of risk tolerance. I myself am very risk averse. If you are a risk loving individual, then McGloin is probably a very exciting QB to watch. If McGloin and Bolden have the same net outcome, then risk loving people will clearly prefer him. Maybe this doesn’t apply to you (as most law school attendees are risk averse), but I think it can be applied to many.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 18, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You do know we were beating Minnesota before Bolden left the game right?
Not only that, but the offense looked the best it had all year up to that point before Bolden got concussed.
Joe might as well stay in the box the rest of his career
I mean, if Sean Payton can’t get out of the way of Jimmy Graham, what chance does an 84-year-old have on the sidelines.
*
HC on the Sideline
It’s necessary to avoid Szcerba situations (waving his repalcement off the field). JoePa on the sideliens would even at his age not tolerate that-To him it’s right up there with not going to class.
tO$U sucks-ALWAYS the right choice!
I'm sure he got an earful from Big Red
Also, he didn’t get back in the game. I don’t think his decision would have been any different had Joe been on the sidelines or not. 9 times out of 10 a coach isn’t going to waste a time out to repremand a player immediately anyways.
Also, I bet he got an earful from Joe at halftime as well.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sure he did
if Joe made it down to the locker room at the half. Otherwise after the game for sure.
My point is-If JoePa is on the sideline he might not have dared to wave off Haplea.
tO$U sucks-ALWAYS the right choice!
I disagree
I’m not in Sczrczcerba’s head, but I’d imagine he waived off Haplea because he was pissed off at himself and wanted a chance at redemption. I don’t think God, Himself on the sidelines would have made him reconsider his actions. Heat of the moment and all that.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Oct 17, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The only other indespensible players I can think of outside of Fera are...
Devon Still and Jordan Hill
Silas Redd
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
you're right
Redd as well. I overlooked him somehow
by zernbabyzern on Oct 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
REC'D
Because you have Cake on here. I love that band.
Yes, my Handlebar 'Stache is glorious.
by PSUkool-aidRAGE on Oct 17, 2011 1:26 PM EDT reply actions
Good to see Drew healthy and doing well
He is from my hometown and we worked together one summer at our local golf course. He couldn’t be a nicer kid and as I said in the title, it’s really nice to see him finally healthy and contributing positively to this defensive unit.
As far as this game, I don’t even want to talk about it to be honest. We barely squeaked out another win against an inferior opponent. I’m really afraid of what will happen against the “better” teams. On Powell’s kickoff return, I knew we were f’ed the moment he was tackled short of the goal line. A lot of good all that red zone work has been, Joe.
The defense was bound to have a down game (if you can call it that) and I’m not worried about them at all. They will keep us in every game. I’m still baffled that an offense will pretty good talent at the skill positions can’t do anything positive. And Szcerba, wow dude. Not only have you committed some HUGE penalties, but you dropped a sure TD at the end of the first half. McGloin actually gave you a decent pass. You gotta make that play, man.
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