Inside Penn State's Offensive Inconsistency
Q: He seems to have an innate sense for the ball . . . do you give him a little bit more rope to freelance just because his instincts are that good?
A: I don't know that . . . I think what we do is that we put him in a position where the plays come to him and then it's time for him to make his plays.
- Les Miles on the Scott Van Pelt Show, October 5, 2011
It's often said that it's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's. That is, basically any system can be run effectively assuming a program recruits the right players to make that happen.
On Wednesday, Scott Van Pelt asked Les Miles, the head coach of the LSU Tigers, about sophomore cornerback Tyrann Mathieu. Mathieu is a sensation - 18 games into his tenure, he's already set the Bayou Bengal record for forced fumbles.[1] Van Pelt essentially asked Miles what made Mathieu so special. Miles was deferential to his player's ability, but the message is clear. Mathieu is a terrific athlete and a fantastic player, but none of that matters if LSU's defensive scheme doesn't put Mathieu in position to take advantage of his skill and aggressiveness.
Penn State's base Cover 3 defense has been the subject of great scrutiny and often the target of unwarranted criticism. This is not a surprise in many respects. It's frustrating to watch a 3rd-and-4 converted on a short pass because our talented cornerbacks are playing ten yards off the receiver. Still, most of this criticism is flawed. The goal of a defense is to prevent the opposition from scoring points. Historically, Tom Bradley's defense has been quite exceptional:
| Year | National Ranking | Points Per Game |
| 2011 | 7th | 12 |
| 2010 | 41st | 22.6 |
| 2009 | 4th | 11.8 |
| 2008 | 4th | 12.4 |
| 2007 | 8th | 17.6 |
| 2006 | 11th | 14.8 |
| 2005 | 11th | 16.5 |
| 2004 | 9th | 15.3 |
These rankings should come as no surprise to anyone who has watched Penn State's defense since 2004. The Nittany Lions have recruited exceptional players on the defensive side of the ball and have produced multiple all-conference and All-America performers. The scheme traditionally allows the linebackers to play downhill in order to attack the run (and force the running back to move laterally, where the linebacker's athleticism takes over) while using the front four's combination of size and speed to put nearly unparalleled pressure on the opposing quarterback. If the quarterback somehow manages to get the ball out of his hands, his rushed and imperfect throw is either broken up or stopped for a short gain by our fundamentally sound tacklers in the secondary.
It is basically impossible to argue with the defensive performance. For all of the complaining that Nittany Lion fans do, this defense just works.[3]
The offense, however, is a different story.
Year
National Ranking
Points Per Game
2011
93rd
23.2
2010
80th
24.5
2009
51st
28.7
2008
11th
38.9
2007
46th
30.3
2006
72nd
22.3
2005
13th
34.4
2004
109th
17.7
For the past eight seasons, the offense has shown remarkably little consistency. Whatever consistency exists is, in a word, pathetic. Penn State's offense has not finished in the top ten, has finished in the top 20 twice, and has finished 70th or worse four times.
There's no question that Penn State could be more successful recruiting big play athletes on the offensive side of the ball. Nevertheless, this year's offense is instructive. In our starting lineup, the Nittany Lions feature one of the best wide receivers in school history, several highly recruited players starting opposite of him, an electrifying playmaker at tailback, two fullbacks who can block, receive, and carry the ball, several offensive lineman who were highly recruited, one quarterback who was a four-star recruit with impeccable mechanics, and another who is less technically proficient but still manages to throw a pretty ball. The Jimmy's and the Joe's exist. Why is this offense 93rd in the nation? What made the 2005 and 2008 offenses so successful?
Penn State is not commonly referred to as an offensive innovator. Penn State, as we've documented here, runs a minimal amount of plays. They often play the field position game and take very few risks. But that's not really the problem. The problem is even deeper.
As Les Miles deftly points out, this is about putting your players in position to be successful, which is something Penn State does once every several years. In 2002, 2005, and 2008, the offense was overhauled and the result was obvious. In 2002, we saw Zack Mills slinging the ball out of the shotgun to Bryant Johnson in the first half against #7 Nebraska. In 2005, we saw the beta version of 2008's aptly named Spread HD. In 2008, Daryll Clark was a legitimate threat to run and pass. Each time, Penn State's offense was dramatically different - it was diverse, unpredictable, and took advantage of its talented skill players by putting them in a position to be successful.
Where is that this year? Where was it last year?
Where are the plays that get Silas Redd out on the edge? Where are the counters, cutbacks, and pitches? Where are the drag routes across the middle of the field to utilize the blinding speed of Devon Smith? Where is the play calling that doesn't require Penn State to run on second down? Where is the moment when Penn State stops screwing around with the rhythm and timing of its offense and plays one quarterback consistently?
Several days ago, I mentioned that if the staff could put together a top-40 offense on a yearly basis, this team would be nearly impossible to beat year-in and year-out. I'm not requesting our offense to be as dominant as Oregon's or Boise State's. I'm not asking for our offense to be as good as our defense. What I am asking for is a bit of consistency. By the numbers alone, a top 40 offense isn't required. If Penn State continues its dominant defensive ways, an offense ranked in the mid-50s would be enough to guarantee at least a solid, if unspectacular year.
I don't think this is too much to ask. When their backs are against the wall and criticism rains down, this staff has proven their willingness to change with the times and create something original and unpredictable. Instead of building on that success, this team has far too often been willing to fall back into its habit of failure and frustration. That a major college power can have such a dramatic difference in it's performance on either side of the ball is astonishing. It's time for the offense to carry its own weight. They have the Jimmy's and the Joe's. It's time to put together the X's and O's on an annual basis.
[1] Interestingly enough, Mathieu was "one of those guys that the recruiting services ha[dn't] fully caught up with" at the time he committed. He received his offer after showing off his under the radar skills at an LSU summer camp. Up to that point, he had offers from FIU, Hampton, UL-Monroe, Tulane, and Miami (Ohio).
[2] Since 2004. Statistics on offense from ESPN were only available from 2004 onward.
[3] With the narrow exception of the times it encounters a pure pocket passer with NFL talent.
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Good stuff, AC
This weekend, I’m less scared of a repeat of all the silly fundamental mistakes that cost us points & drives vs. Indy (I think Joe works the whole game on the sideline and goes with a single QB for most of the game, despite what he’s said) than I am that James Vandenberg might be your footnote number 3. Not having seen Iowa play yet, I’m very, very interested to see what happens when they have the ball.
I still think that our putting players in position to make plays thing lies just under the surface, but that it’s been suffering from all the well-documented coaching-led rhythm issues. Who knows, tho. But your consistency point on that across the years is unquestionable.
Great Article, Here are my thoughts about the team and this weekend.
1)5’7’’ Devon Smith should not be our deep ball option! Can’t stand when we throw it way downfield to him. I can’t recall a time it has worked. Hit him in stride on slants and cuts.
2)Pitch the ball to Silas on the outsides. Running it up the middle with 8 or 9 defenders stacked waiting for it makes me so frustrated! If we are running it up the middle put Dukes in there. Dudes a beast on ypc.
3) I realized Bolden is not our QB when he didn’t hit our FB on the PA rollout early in the first quarter against Indiana. I know for a fact McGloin would have thrown it to him
4) This weekends game will determine just how good our secondary really is.
5) If we score more than 21 points, we will win this game.
It is not a criticism of the Cover 3
to state that it has lost us games. It has…….Iowa 2008 jumps immediately to mind. Nothing wrong with a cover 3 base scheme….but YOU MUST ADJUST depending on circumstance! Bradley’s failure to make adjustments is his biggest weakness IMO!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
This is totally true.
Look at Iowa’s last drive or two in that ’08 game. How many times did they need X yards on 3rd down, only to get X+1? It was insane.
by Chris Grovich on Oct 7, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.......
Don’t put this on the old man…….Sandusky ran a whole lot many more stunts and coverage schemes than TB! I don’t mind the 3 base scheme for a majority of the game…….but crucial situations demand adjustments with coverage and personnel. Even my wife that just started watching football 3 years ago can tell you to throw a slant on 3 and short against the Lions. Why……TB has Powell and Lynn sitting at 7….they shuffle or backpedal at the snap so by the time they make the read they are at 10. QB and receiver just play pitch and catch……expect to see this Saturday.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
Well
I’ve read in interviews (particularly Grosz) that Bradley prefers a 3-4 setup, or is at least interested in going back to a 3-4 like Sandusky had back in the day. The implication is that we run a 4-3 and play a certain way because it is dictated so by Joe. That Scrap is a bit more meek than Jerry, and doesn’t visibly get in screaming matches on the sidelines with Joe like Fran and Jerry did back in the day could be considered a fault of Scrap’s. But there is some evidence out there that suggests if Scrap was given more wiggle room, we might be running an entirely different shop on defense.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, and I do think Sandusky was the superior DC. But I think we’re kidding ourselves if there aren’t constraints placed on this coaching staff by the head guy in charge. Constraints that are certainly more visible on the offensive side…
And just to offer this up, the disadvantage of taking away the third and three slant is that they can curl and go deep, making the first down irrelevant since we’ve now given up six points. It might make sense to try and kill the drive with some risk taking, and I’m actually in agreement that PSU should do it more often, but the strategy is to make them throw 10 more times even if you do give them the easy first, and it’s not an unsound one. It also means a chance at not letting them get in a third and short position, which they do often.
Frankly, the defense puts the team in a position to win just about all of their games, picking on a couple of conservative decisions that smart people could argue both ways seems unfair when there are such consistent, undeniable and fundamental issues with the offense.
by Kevin Powers on Oct 7, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I disagree.
Your advocating that the defense give up first downs to prevent a deep route. Come on. Just adjust the defense and have a little help over the top. It’s those long drives that can eventually tire out a defense and our offense needs every minute it can get to score enough points to win. If we lose the time of possession battle, we lose the game.
It's undeniable that tighter coverage is going to lead to more big plays.
One saafety over the top is not going to change that.
Basically, you are advocating for some big play TDs for the other team in exchange for having the defense on the field less. That isn’t a sound stragey, in my opinion. If you have TOP issues with this team, it’s not with the defense. You can pin that squarely on the offense right now.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 7, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a strategy we should employ when down
If you’re down 10 and you use more press coverage, there are 2 things that might happen.
1. You go from down 10 to down 17. You’re still losing and still need to score, but at least you pushed the envelope.
2. You get a pick-6, or get the ball back through an INT or forced punt.
When you have an offense that is equipped to score and come back from a deficit via the passing game, you don’t need this as much. But when your offense can’t pass, let alone pass when the other team knows you’re going to pass, might as well try to make something happen.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Which is why it was so frustrating that we didn't do that in the 2nd half
against Alabama.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I agree supreme confidence in the offense is probably the biggest
factor in playing more aggressive defense (at most schools).
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by PSUinBOSSton on Oct 7, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Admittedly I'm splitting hairs with the defense and our struggles are exclusively related to the offense..
But, I still think there is room for us to be more aggressive at times. I also don’t necessarily agree that more big plays will occur as a result. Look at Bama’s defense as an example. They are extremely aggressive and seem to do alright for themselves. I’m not looking for a complete defensive overhaul, but there are opportunities when changing up the defensive approach from time to time. Our defense could be even better.
Well, we don't have Alabama's players.
You want the best defense in the country (or one of the two) stacked with NFL players at every position. Me too. We don’t have that.
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Exactly...
We don’t have the personnel to play zone blitz packages such as those favored by Saban. He recruits specifically to fit his schemes.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
You're misunderstanding me.
And I’m not explaining it well enough. I don’t want the whole philosophy of the defense to change. That would be idiotic. I just think there are not enough adjustments made based on game situation.
By nature, I’m a critical person. I look at something and always see room for improvement no matter how “perfect” it may seem.
I disagree with none of this
I really don’t have a problem with our D, to be honest. My issues are, like you, with the offense (basically since 1995). I just felt like pointing out that in an alternate reality, Scrap may be running an attacking 3-4 with sexy fire-zone blitzes and mixing man with zone and the like. Though that is merely hypothetical, and the real scenario of having a conservative 4-3 with zone isn’t, as you pointed out, all that bad.
Not saying to get away from zone 3....BUT
When you need a defensive stop with the game on the line you have to know down and distance and adjust accordingly. Also I just don’t buy that Joe sets the D or D formations. Also we have run a 3-4 variation recently with both Shaw and to a lesser extent Maybin. This year may have been the year to try the 3-4 to get both Stupar and Mauti (and possibly Fortt) on the field but it was never even discussed. As for the offensive numbers, we have to remember that Stats are only part of the story. They are artificially inflated by all the teams (think Nevada, Michigan, SMU, Hawaii, etc.) that run spread/pistol variations, put up a lot of points and play no defense. IF PSU can average somewhere near 25-30 a game, given our D, that should be enough. I would contend that if we make our field goals against Temple and don’t turn it over in the redzone….or 2011 numbers would look a lot better.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
But the principal doesn't change just because the game is on the line.
If you tighten up when you need a stop, you are still bringing in big play possibility. It certainly is not like we don’t get defensive stops at the end of games when we need them. We do, all the time. But they don’t stick in your memory as well because it isn’t a scoring play, or one single exciting moment. Last Saturday we let Indiana pick their way down the field at the end of the game and kept everything in front of us. Indiana failed because we gave them lots of small plays and slow moving first downs and they ran out of time.
The only way this type of defense works in the long term is with consistency. When you ask them to get more “aggressive” you are really asking for an entire change of philosophy. You aren’t asking for an “adjustment” but rather the best of both worlds.
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If you tighten up when you need a stop, you are still bringing in big play possibility
In my opinion, here is a core issue with the Penn State program. A game of “what if” and conservatism. The so-called perfect game plan that never goes perfect.
Indiana failed because we gave them lots of small plays and slow moving first downs and they ran out of time
That’s the strategy in that situation. Keep everything in front. In that case, you’re playing to protect a lead. What if we were down a TD in that scenario and needed the ball back? Would you still be OK with the lots of small plays strategy? The point is that there are situations where we should be more aggressive on defense. That’s all I’m trying to say.
If/when we are down in that situation, we do send some linebackers.
And I have seen Powell up on the line on a number of occassions this season. It doesn’t mean are effective with it, but it’s not like we never ever call it. I think it’s more of a problem with allocation of resources. We’re not very good at executing those defensive strategies because we don’t spend time working on them. To then ask the defense to execute them in only the most crucial circumstances is asking a bit much.
I I think we would both agree that we are wasting far too many words at this point on our team’s biggest strength. So I will just leave it at this: I see where you’re coming from, your point has merit, and we only depart as to whether it is a strategy that can be deployed with success.
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Maybe I was just bored discussing the same old problems with the offense.
But point taken. Back to the disaster we call an offense. :)
Hah.
Now that you point out the alternative explicitly, it doesn’t seem like a great option.
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Exactly
Which is why I refuse to take shots at Scrap for “not getting aggressive” when this defense has an identity, a philosophy, and it has to stick to it, for better or for worse. Asking our defense to be something it isn’t is a tad foolish.
Just wish the offense had an identity from a year-to-year basis.
"I've got to put my players in a better position to win, it's my responsibility."
/Ihateyouandyreid
Run.
Offensive Line...
is why you don’t see more pitches or counters. If they can’t effectively block a simple ISO or Power run play, you can’t ask them to do counters or sweeps.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 7, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Coverage...
Are the safties (Astorino, Sukay) good enough to play in man coverage schemes? It seems a cover three fits their skills – they can keep their eyes forward, come down hill to get ball carriers, come up on balls over the middle and break up or pick them off. Not sure you want either one of them running with a slot receiver in an aggresive man style coverage.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 7, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
No, they aren't.
In fact, there aren’t many safeties in the game that can effectively cover a slot WR. That’s why you have nickel and dime formations.
There...
will still be times that either one has to cover a TE or a WR straight up. Are you going to run nickel as the base D?
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 7, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that...
I’m just saying that you don’t often see safeties covering WR’s. And when you do, it’s almost always a mismatch. Safeties covering TE’s is much more common since they normally don’t have the same athletic ability as a wideout.
Or they will have to cover the back out of the backfield...
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the part that's so frustrating
Good defenses are harder to come by than good offenses. If we had Indiana’s offense this season, we’re 9-3 at worst. Hell if we had Temple’s offense this year we’re better off than now.
It doesn’t take a whole lot to recruit some talent at the skill positions, implement a well-defined offensive system, and wind up in the top 60 in total offense. Teams all over the country are doing it. Teams with far less resources are doing it.
We have the thing most teams would kill for, a consitent top 10 defense. Where would ND be with our defenses over the last decade? Michigan? How about Indiana. Give Indiana our defense for the last 10 years and how many B10 championships do they win? My guess is more than 2…
Ok is good enough, and we struggle mightily for ok.
Anyway, the flashlights eat our human power grids, our souls if you will. So i destroyed them, and if a few precious panties were burnt or soiled in the reckoning then so be it
I can't be the only one who's seen a lot of 2 deep safeties (Cover 2) the last several years
along with tighter coverage at times on third and medium, and even some bump and run man.
There may have been a time where we came out and played straight cover 3 more than 60% of the time, but I don’t think that’s the case any more.
That said, my biggets complaint is the lack of disguise on blitzes, and only seeing one blitz from the secondary every 4 or 5 games. I understand why they don’t take risks often – but they need to take more of them.
On the other hand, the defense gets more agressive as the offense shows more of an ability to score points in any given game. Especially if they can build a little bit of a lead. I can’t really blame the conservative defenses when even I have the sense that one TD will effectively end the game.
by PSUEnrg02 on Oct 7, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well they do mix it up, if only because you can't run Cover-3 every single play
I think of that play against OSU in 2009 when we ran Cover-2 and OSU ran 3 Verticals and that ended up being six for Posey. Nice throw by Pryor, too. Bastards.
by OmarLittle on Oct 7, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You watch a different game than I do then.....
Can’t think of one instance this year I saw either Powell or Lynn (who by all indications have the ability to do it) up in a receivers face in a Cover 2 or man. More importantly it didn’t happen in the AL game when we needed to shut the Tide down on 3 and short to end drives and get the D off the field. Also like you said we never bring the corners…EVER! Cloud blitzes can be the most effective if you have speed ( this would seem to be Chaz Powell). As for the discussions about he safeties…..I actually think both Sukay and Astorino could handle certain slot receivers.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball! Let's crack some nuts!
I saw it in numerous games this year
It was Morris in the Nickel, He’d played up on maybe 5 played where he pressed and jammed the slot. I saw in 3 times in the Indy game and Amos did it once.
Predicting Penn State's Offensive Scripts since 2005!
Exactly.
I understand why they don’t take risks often – but they need to take more of them
I believe this is even more important if the offense can’t get things going. You have the talent on defense to make something happen and provide a spark. Get a little more aggressive and try to get the ball back to the offense. It might even throw some opposing QB’s off their game and force them into making a mistake.
The best critique of the PSU defensive philosophy is likely that it is
made to play with the lead. If PSU is down by more than one score, the defense — unless they change up the playcalling, etc — is not designed to create turnovers and get the offense back on the field quickly.
That said, I think — as has been stated above — the defense kicks ass and employs a very effective strategy altogether. Of course, there’s always room for improvement, but it’s really hard to argue with the results on the field.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
They force..
a bunch of turnovers when they have a very strong Defensive Line. They haven’t had a DE that can create pressure since 2008. Pressure leads to sacks and fumbles or hurried throws that DBs pick off. A very strong defensive line can make a good back 7 a great back 7.
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Oct 7, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there anything that can be learned from the defensive performance in 2010
other than Avoid Injuries?
"I wouldn’t trust Craig James to report on sixth-grade volleyball." Stewart Mandel on Craig James, who allegedly killed five hookers while at SMU.
Sure. Mediocre linebacker play makes this defense soft and easy to deal with.
The defense was average last year. For us, that’s awful, but most teams would still kill to have a defense ranked 41st in points allowed,
Last year’s problems resided almost entirely in the linebacking crew. Forget the ends for a minute, who couldn’t generate a ton of pressure. We had serious problems against the run last year. Even when the team forced opposing tailbacks to move laterally, one linebacker was consistently out of position and the other was simply not athletic enough to make a play. The result was that the team was gashed for yardage in large chunks.
The defense isn’t much different anywhere except the linebackers this year. What a difference it’s made. That’s why we’re Linebacker U.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Oct 7, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
And yet, wouldn’t it still be nice to have a Tamba/Evans/Maybin somewhere in our midst at DE?
I'll go tackle...
with Roosevelt Grier.
Folks need to remember Rosey more. He is an American cultural icon.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

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