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Why Ohio State beating Wisconsin was bad for Penn State

This is something that I wrote for my site, but more people come to BSD so here it is.

 

While most of the country was focusing on Clemson getting worked by Georgia Tech and USC battling Stanford despite some terrible officiating, I noticed quite a few Penn State fans openly cheering for Ohio State to beat Wisconsin.

 

The reasoning seemed simple, if Ohio State beat Wisconsin, Penn State would have a two game lead in the Leaders division of the Big Ten. However, I’m going to explain why a two game lead makes Penn State’s path to the Big Ten Championship game harder.

 

I know, you are probably wondering how a one game lead can be better than a two game lead but I am going to do my best to explain how it is possible.

First, let’s look at the current standings after Ohio State did in fact beat Wisconsin:

 

Now, let’s look at Penn State’s remaining schedule:

 

Also, let’s look at the Big Ten tie-breaker situation if there is a three team tie:

So for this exercise we will make an assumption that Ohio State and Wisconsin win all of their remaining games except for their respective games against Penn State.

 

If you are not aware of which teams Ohio State and Wisconsin have left to play outside of Penn State, well here you go:

Ohio State:

Wisconsin:

Looking at those schedules I think that it is a very reasonable guess that Wisconsin will win out till the Penn State game and the only other real test for Ohio State will be its game against Michigan.

 

Alright, now that we have the background knowledge out of the way, let’s get to the fun part:

 

If Wisconsin had beaten Ohio State:

This one is easy. Penn State would have had a one game lead on Wisconsin and a three game lead on Ohio State. This would have meant that all Penn State had to do was beat Wisconsin. They could have lost to both Nebraska and Ohio State, which would make them 5-2 in the Big Ten leading to the Wisconsin game, who would have been 6-1. By beating Wisconsin, the two teams would tie for the division and Penn State would win the tie-breaker and the division.

 

That’s it, simple as that, all that would have mattered was the game against Wisconsin.

 

Now, on to the actual situation at hand and the possible outcomes:

 

Penn State beats Nebraska, loses to Ohio State and Wisconsin:

In this situation, Penn State would finish third in the division, Wisconsin second and Ohio State would play in the title game. While all three teams would have the Big Ten record, Penn State is the first to be eliminated by tie-breaker b1 because they would have lost to both Ohio State and Wisconsin. Then it reverts to the head-to-head matchup between Ohio State and Wisconsin, which Ohio State won, giving the Buckeyes the division.

 

Penn State beats Ohio State, loses to Nebraska and Wisconsin:

Here Ohio State would be eliminated by having a third Big Ten loss. Unfortunately for Penn State they would finish tied with Wisconsin with two Big Ten losses and they would lose the tie-breaker do to losing head-to-head.

 

Penn State beats Wisconsin, loses to Nebraska and Ohio State:

Basically the same as the above situation just with Ohio State and Wisconsin reversed. Wisconsin is eliminated with what would be their third conference loss and Ohio State wins the tie-breaker over Penn State by winning head-to-head.

 

Conclusion:

That’s right, by having a larger division lead, Penn State is now in a situation where the only way to win the division now is to win two of the three remaining games instead of just one game without that one win being against Ohio State and getting some help from Michigan.

 

Next time I hope fans take a moment to look at the whole standings and schedule situation before worrying about how big a division lead is half way through the conference race.

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Please the forces of the underworld?

Or are they the forces of the underworld?

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 1, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Men On Football?

Look, PSU must win…..period.
Slithering in through the back door is not a good way to enter a championship game.
PSU, so far, has won the games they have been favored in, and lost the only one they were a dog.

Now, we are looking at PSU being a dog in three straight games.
Not by much, but still a dog.

So, repeat after me…..

Hare Krishna,
Hare Krishna,
Krishna Krishna,
Hare Hare.

Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 1, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Men On Football?"

Hated it!

I'm a woman eating monster with a suitcase full of fire.

by WorldBFat on Nov 1, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope - slight favorite

I forget where it landed, but it was somewhere around 3 points.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

#OccupyESPN

by IcersGuy on Nov 2, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

yup

actually 3.5 or 4

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 2, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

My gut said Ohio State winning wasn’t right. I said it before the game, I wanted them to be eliminated. I didn’t even think about the fact that it only meant us winning one game for the division title.

But, I think that if we were to lose to Nebraska and Ohio State, we wouldn’t pull it together for Wisconsin anyway. Plus, the current scenario gives each of the remaining games more meaning.

by speedomike on Nov 1, 2011 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Boiler Up, baby!

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 1, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You make a great point

It would have been better if Wisconsin had mathematically eliminated Ohio State to create a one game playoff with us and Wisconsin.

But, it’s nice that we’re in a position where we control our own destiny. Just win our games and everything takes care of itself. Much rather be us than either Ohio State or Wisconsin and needing help.

by BSD on Nov 1, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Correct Mike...

Just win your games — it’s all anyone should really ask for.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 1, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

We win one at home, then win another one, and we’re done. Doesn’t even matter what the third one is.

by misdreavus79 on Nov 3, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because OSU won, we can be the ones to end their streak of consecutive titles.

I said this in one of the other threads, but I think it would be great to be the ones to do that. I still remember when Notre Dame ended our streak of no losing seasons in ‘88. I want OSU fans to remember us as being the ones to end their streak.
Plus, if we can’t beat OSU & Nebraska, what are our chances in the CCG? We’ll be in a better bowl finishing second in the division than losing in the CCG.

Born and raised in the shadow of Mount Nittany

by Elihu on Nov 1, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I had that sentiment up until a couple weeks ago.

There are 6 or 7 teams in the Big Ten that we could lose to. But there is also no one we aren’t capable of beating.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 1, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just Win Out. Period.

No problems then.

Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 1, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Too early to lose sleep on this

The nuclear scenario of beating Wisconsin and thereby handing The Ohio’s Taint the title is in play. But there is still a lot of football to be played. Both The Taint and Wisky have two competitive or better teams on their schedules aside from PSU. OSU can’t look too far past Purdue, and if they beat PSU they can’t have a letdown against Michigan. Wisky shouldn’t overlook Illinois as that team is talented, dangerous and will be playing for something at that point.

Looking at the overall results, Wisky still looks stronger than The Ohio’s Taint and has a little easier schedule. I’d rather have both sitting at two losses right now with the results and schedules being what they are. There is a betting chance OSU still drops one of its final four games, and it feels comfortable having that dual cushion.

I see it this way: a one loss Wisky meant that PSU could go 2-1 and still lose the division if the loss was to Wisky. Now 2-1 is a guaranteed division title. Making the assumption everyone else wins out is not the most likely scenario, though it is plausible. We shall see.

by gcdyersb on Nov 1, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, pretty much this

in reference to tO$U/WIS remaining schedules, both play 3 teams that have a decent shot at beating them. Purdue and the Zooks could certainly pull a “gopher-broke” on them.

tO$U has to play away, @ ‘boilers; a division game. The potential combination of under-estimating them (and playing spoiler), being on the road and perhaps in the combination of under-estimating/looking ahead to Penn State … I definitely do not see this as a "gim’me."

Wisco has Purdue as well, their next game. Again, not a “gim’me” for them. Not exactly for the same reasons as I believe for tO$U. One complete difference here could be how wounded is Wisco after two consecutive losses? Purdue could smell blood in the water here. Purdue certainly could score some points via run/pass/FG’s. The spoiler ’boiler difference here might just be if their defense plays their best so far this year; add in perhaps a few turnovers in their favor, a couple ill-timed penalties from Wisco … things like this.

Wisco, similar to tO$U playing Purdue/looking ahead to playing Penn State; insert the Zookers in this scenario.

In Champaigne, division game. Super hungry team looking to prove something via their Zooking nature. Wisco can not afford to take their eye off of them. Wouldn’t be surprised at a low scoring game. An orange and white defense might just be stout enough to keep Wisco in check. And if their dual-threat offense is clicking, they could put up some points against this D. I’m thinking in this scanario, the team whom has the ‘favorable ball bounces’ (ie – field position, turn-overs, penalties, SpTeams) wins by a close score.

" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009

by BlueWhiteLife on Nov 1, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh

i look at it the other way. If Wisconsin had won, we would likely have to win all three games. With a Wisconsin loss, we only need to win 2 of 3, and we can LOSE to wisconsin and still go to the championship game, which is the best likely scenario for PSU at this point, since they look to be the toughest of the 3 teams we have left

by swiggy04 on Nov 1, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

No

If Wisconsin had won, we only would have needed to beat Wisconsin as we would have held the head to head tiebreaker w/ them in that scenario.

Formerly known as kmart93

Black Shoe Diaries

by Kyle_Martin on Nov 1, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frankly, I think it's better to have the ability to win the B1G even if we don't

win in Madison on the last weekend of the regular season.

You make an interesting point, but having more options to make the conference championship game seems better to me. I think that 11/26 game in Madison is the hardest game on the schedule — Wiscy’s two losses have both been on the road.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 1, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

national championship?

oklahoma, boise, oklahoma st, LSU, and stanford would all have to lose

I’ll settle for the Rose Bowl at this point

Defense wins championships

by psu_all_day on Nov 1, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think we're going to the national championship game

but if we win out, I think we’d have a pretty good shot of going.

OK State will lose to Oklahoma; Stanford will likely lose to Oregon or in the Pac 12 conference championship; We would jump Boise due to the computers; I think we’d still look better than a one-loss Oklahoma team (given that their lose came against a crap opponent), and if LSU doesn’t go to the conference championship game, the ain’t going to the national championship game.

Really, of your list the only team that would scare me is Stanford if we were to finish 12-1.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 1, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's no way we jump a one loss Oklahoma team

Especially if Okie State is undefeated when Okie beats them.

Formerly known as kmart93

Black Shoe Diaries

by Kyle_Martin on Nov 1, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

Our lose is against Bama; there is against Kansas…

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 1, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks for the correction

and any fear of anti-PSU/B1G media bias is illegitmate in the face of give JoePa a national title shot for his 111th birthday

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 1, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one loses to Kansas.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 1, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely agree

Doesn’t matter who PSU or OK would have lost to. If OK beats the #3 team in the nation, they will jump up. Pretty simple.

by GMac14 on Nov 1, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Paul Jones

Get ready.
Title game 1/9/2012.
First day of spring semester 1/9/2012.

by skins4ever' on Nov 1, 2011 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Go Paul Jones

He gets his grades up and there isn’t anymore QB dancing.

I like linebackers. I collect 'em. You can't have too many good ones. - Bill Parcells
Be excellent to each other... and party on, dudes. - Abraham Lincoln

by T_Hutch on Nov 1, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd rather face MSU in all honestly

Rematches=meh
Besides, we can’t let MSU get away with 28-22

Needs moar Dukes
Sean Lee is the only tolerable thing about the Cowboys

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 1, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Admit it...

You just want the LG[B]T back.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 2, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

While Bielema is a douchebag

The Wisc players are not at the scummy level as OSU players are.

Formerly known as kmart93

Black Shoe Diaries

by Kyle_Martin on Nov 1, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...that's why there is a distinction

between a complete team Jackwagonry and only a Coach Douchebaggery. I don’t dislike Wisconsin. I dislike Bielema. I don’t know how Barry Alvarez tolerates him.

"Illegitimus non Carborundum!" (Don't let the bastards wear you down)

by RWReese on Nov 1, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dad? Is that you?

My father said the same thing yesterday.

"It's never a bad thing thing to vote for the suckiness of tOSU." -RWReese

by Paige2PSU on Nov 1, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

A good test of another person's intelligence is how much they agree with you.

Therefore, your father should submit his application for MENSA (if he’s not already a member), because he’s obviously brilliant.

(Notice I avoided going to, “Sure….you can call me ’Daddy”…LOL)

"Illegitimus non Carborundum!" (Don't let the bastards wear you down)

by RWReese on Nov 2, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll let him know. He'll be thrilled!

And that would have been a little icky, LOL!

"It's never a bad thing thing to vote for the suckiness of tOSU." -RWReese

by Paige2PSU on Nov 2, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

In conference, I wouldn't root for Ohio State

OOC, we better hope they win.

Needs moar Dukes
Sean Lee is the only tolerable thing about the Cowboys

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Nov 1, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a difference between cheering for a team

and wanting the best possible scenario for your own team.

No, I was not cheering for Ohio State to win last week, but you’d best be sure I’m not sad at all that they won.

As somebody already stated, now their chances at a championship will be taken away by us. WE get to crush their souls, not Wisconsin.

by misdreavus79 on Nov 3, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was there

I was at the Volleyball game. Still made it home to Bellefonte in time to watch the 4th quarter of the OSU/Wisc game

@collegiatestdms

htttp://www.collegiatestadiums.com

by JGuiher on Nov 1, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

An even better solution

Although I was able to consume the above mentioned adult beverages all the way through both PSU games, which had an upside to it

by NEPA_Lions on Nov 1, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me, too.

While also listening to the Auburn game because it was on PPV in ALABAMA!!

"It's never a bad thing thing to vote for the suckiness of tOSU." -RWReese

by Paige2PSU on Nov 1, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beat You All

Three TV’s in my Garage, with the sound off, listening to the radio!

Pass the Pipe!

Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 1, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

My problem with the radio

Is that it’s like 2-3 seconds ahead of the TV action. If it were vice versa, I could pause the DVR for a few seconds and sync up, but I don’t know how to bring the radio back to match up. Otherwise I wouldn’t have listened to those jackalopes talk about how the PI call was questionable home-cooking when Moye’s arm was pretty clearly held prior to the ball arriving.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 2, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really, with video in HD?

I have the opposite sync problem, solvable by DVR pause. Oh, wait. That’s listening to Jack on ‘internet radio’, not FM. Maybe that’s why I sometimes get delays in my audio feed?

by jtothep on Nov 2, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beat you all, all.

Three-monitor setup at home. Every single possible game on mute with the one I want to listen to sound on.

by misdreavus79 on Nov 3, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just wanted to say...

that The Ohio State University epitomizes all that is the uber suckage.

by wxguy519 on Nov 1, 2011 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

So....Boiler Up?

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

#OccupyESPN

by IcersGuy on Nov 1, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I'll even promise not to cringe

when they blow that damn horn, if they beat BOTH of these teams.

"It's never a bad thing thing to vote for the suckiness of tOSU." -RWReese

by Paige2PSU on Nov 1, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very Much A Possibility!

Also, if Iowa wins out, they are in the championship game!

Cipher that for a while.

Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!

by joefromboalsburg on Nov 1, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, from a psyhcological standpoint, this is better.

It’s possible to have UW beat next week – if they lose one game before ours and we win one or we win both, UW has nothing to play for because they’re mathematically eliminated.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Nov 1, 2011 6:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

He is better

but how much better is Wilson than Persa or Scheelhaase? I guess the fact that they have quality RB and Nick Toon make him more dangerous, but I think we will be able to force him to play worse than he has all year.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 2, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I did not want to see O$U win.

It gives them a means of somehow sneaking into the Big Ten championship. We get enough Big Ten jokes already, a 10-3 team going to the Rose Bowl and getting blown out, leaving us with a four loss conference championship, and we would never hear the end of it.

Ohio State must be shut out in the Horseshoe. I don’t care the score on our side. Just so long as they have 0.

by Altoona Man on Nov 2, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Easy solution:

root for both teams to lose this weekend. I know it is unlikely to happen but that won’t stop me from rooting for it to happen!

by Ben16 on Nov 2, 2011 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I was rooting for

Ohio St, I hate Wiscy far more and think it’s more likely to win the first two then the third. Bielema is a tool. Plus I still remeber the house of horrors when they hurt all of our QB’s, plus the kicking out of bounds. While Tressel might have run a dirty program, he is not a d-bag. Which in my opinion is a greater sin.

We Are!!!!!!

by kingofsmoke on Nov 2, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought that was Michigan

who hurt all of our QBs.

"It's never a bad thing thing to vote for the suckiness of tOSU." -RWReese

by Paige2PSU on Nov 2, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was

i remember being like, sweet, clark’s awesome so we’re totally gonna come back and beat them this year.

then they ATEHISFACE

then pauly c came in, screen to royster (methinks), and i was just bursting with false hope and alcohol.

"They stalk their prey to within two or three great leaps and then launch a lightning-fast charge, striking their prey. Victims are most often killed by suffocation with a prolonged bite..."--Hinterland Who's Who

by afields16 on Nov 2, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

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