Posnanski - Greatest Ever
by SarcasmJam on Nov 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST
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PrintI realize this should probably be a link in the fanshots - but NOBODY READS THE FANSHOTS. So I figured I would just copy and paste it here. Mods - I hope that isn't a problem. I just couldn't let this be missed. Please check out the real link and give him the deserved attention or someone delete and find a way to post it correctly on the front page. This should be mandatory reading for anyone who considers themselves a Penn State fan.
[I know there's no harm meant, but -- especially with a guy SI is paying boatloads to employ -- we have to refrain from pasting in whole. So read the damn thing here, because if you're going to read another word on this situation it better start with Ponanski, who is a national treasure. It's not very often I'll let a clear loophole in the Fanpost/Fan Shot system get through, but this is as good an exception as any. -KP]
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Wow!
Thank you for posting!!
"That Craig James gets such prominent assignments remains a mystery on the D.B. Cooper scale."
Richard Deitsch on Craig James, who allegedly killed 5 hookers while at SMU.
by Pete the Streak on Nov 10, 2011 7:22 PM EST reply actions
I fixed it too.
Sorry, I am an amatuer.
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
I have to agree
I am surprised that many of his former players haven’t gone more to bat for him. Don’t get me wrong, they all say great things about him, but seem to be scared to say maybe he isn’t to blame for this whole thing. I guess the words “underage sex scandal” can do that to you.
When you put those black shoes on tomorrow, and you put on that jersey without your name on the back, and you put that plain helmet on, that's tradition. Penn State tradition!
--Who else?
/cries in public
But I will say that I am sickened, absolutely sickened, that some of those people whose lives were fundamentally inspired and galvanized by Joe Paterno have not stepped forward to stand up for him, have stood back and allowed him to be painted as an inhuman monster who was only interested in his legacy, even at the cost of the most heinous crimes against children imaginable.
Shame on them.
And why? I’ll tell you my opinion: Because they were afraid. And I understand that. A kind word for Joe Paterno in this storm is taken by many as a pro vote for a child molester. A quick, "Wait a minute, Joe Paterno is a good man. Let’s see what happened here," is translated as an attempt to minimize the horror of what Jerry Sandusky is charged with doing. It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Yeah, that last line really got me. So much so, it's my new sig
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Nov 10, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Haven't read the post yet.
but I’m rec’ing this on title alone.
by Kevin Powers on Nov 10, 2011 7:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for doing it right for me guys!
Sorry to add work to your plate, but this was too good to pass up.
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
Thanks Joe P. Both of you.
I wish i could pre-order his book now.
by psuqban on Nov 10, 2011 8:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
What a great piece. This is what I’ve been feeling, but unable to express so eloquently.
Posnanski can write, man.
I’d be lying if I said this article was about 90% similar to exactly what I’ve wanted to write, but have been unable to articulate. The real sadness for me in this affair (please no potshots about not caring about the victims, that’s the real sadness by about infinite, but I’m talking about particularly the Paterno witch hunt offshoot of the scandal) is that one of the best human beings and role models I’ve ever known in my life was being hung out to dry, and no one who didn’t already know was going to hear anything about all the good he’s done.
It hurt me to see Joe standing out there, all alone, taking judgment and punishment from all angles. I’ve thought about the story of Jackie Robinson in one of his first road games, getting booed and mocked and antagonized by the crowd, and Pee Wee Reese walking up to him and putting his arm around him in a show of solidarity and support. It takes a ton of courage sometimes, but it might be the right thing to do.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 10, 2011 8:17 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I think this piece
will really get the ball rolling on that and the narrative is going to change for the good. (at least a little better)
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
Jackie Robinson was booed because he was black
Joe Paterno was booed because he helped cover up the rape of a child.
It’s amazing more people don’t see the similarities.
by 1LisHell on Nov 10, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Reading comprehension isn't your thing I guess.
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
No, Joe Paterno was booed because people like you are too lazy, emotionally driven, and/or incompetent to actually get a grasp of what happened before spouting off.
It is appropriate to be angry at what happened. It is not appropriate to let your anger cloud your view of the actual events.
Thanks for not even trying.
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 10, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
And I might add that I take a harder line on blogistani type people
Ignorant people who got their news from the media are vastly more excusable than ignorant people who are posting at BSD, where we (and that includes Chris) were covering this story with a knowledge that in terms of responsibility, Paterno was not at the top of the totem pole.
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 10, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree with you on lots of things
and have been a long time reader of your posts.. Sadly your are a Grant fan.. but everyone knows that Lee with his right hand TJJ were the best gen’s of all time.
by archerbullseye on Nov 10, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, everyone except for JFC Fuller and any other military analyst who actually knows what he's talking about.
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2011 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
Can you just not read
or are you just retarded? If you’re just retarded, then I feel sorry for you and will cease making fun of you.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
i've been a Poz fan for some time
And as usual, he absolutely killed it.
by kijana's acl on Nov 10, 2011 8:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
We need more like him too...
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Nov 10, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry about it.
Penn State may be stupid, but they’re also greedy. Football still makes money.
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 10, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
I still can't believe I'm actually writing this.
Jeez, what a heck of a thing.
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 10, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
This story is all about what I've had to...
…defend to many of my friends. Child abuse is a hot button. Paterno is the most widely known figure. He was always going to take the fall for this.
On Saturday night, without have heard anything other than Sandusky being arrested for being a pedophile, I said to my brother that Paterno was finished coaching. He sort of laughed uncomfortably and he immediately agreed that there was at least absolutely no way he would be back next year. I’m sorry I was right.
Everyone regards Joe as the all-knowing leader of PSU with ultimate power. If Sandusky was on his staff and these allegations were coming out now, Joe had to know about the child molesting AND have chosen to do nothing about it. Although we now know that Joe did know something about it, we also know he did try to do something about it. But that something he did was not good enough, because he’s Joe Paterno: Leader of the Penn State legions and ruler of the entire college football world.
It never mattered what Joe did or did not know and it never will. A vile human being around Penn State on Joe’s watch had to be Joe’s fault.
I can’t be the only one that wasn’t surprised by any of this? (Appalled, yes! Surprised, no.)
A vile human being around Penn State on Joe’s watch had to be Joe’s fault.
This is absolutely, 100% wrong. Joe is not responsible for what other grown men do. Joe took the appropriate legal actions…was it morally enough, maybe not. But to say that an undercover pedofile being on campus is Joe’s fault is absolutely ridiculous. As JP said in his article:
I came to the conclusion then — a conclusion that has congealed through the years — that people are complicated and contradictory and mysterious and often bewildering. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things, happy people get lost, lost people become heroes.
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Nov 10, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
I accidently scrolled down to far
Joe’s piece is amazing, I spread it to all my friends. Then I scrolled down and read the comments and was immediately repulsed by society again. It’s like half the people just did a tldr and posted their crap against the spirit of the piece itself.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Imagine his inbox
yeesh.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Facts? Who needs facts?
Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!
by Brett Brown on Nov 10, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's why WE
need to make sure he is getting emails thanking him for standing up for what is right.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Posnanski really is perfect pitch here.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
And another thing...
Sometimes, I feel like the last week or so there has been a desperate race among commentators and others to prove that they are MORE against child molesting than anyone else.
I often suspect the loudest and most shrill voices in situations like this of instinctively covering for something dark in themselves.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
That is what I thought, too...
There was some early American lit about the parishioner who always sat in the front row and always sang the loudest, but had made a deal with the devil. Can’t remember the work, but this is what it reminds me of.
by dontcallmescooter on Nov 11, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Gotta be Nathaniel Hawthorne
I think that’s the plot of every one of his stories
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for a reference to great American lit.
(My Lib Arts degree is in American Studies.)
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 11, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, SubLime, I was looking for you
I know you like words.
1. Could vs. Should. In the context of “Paterno could/should have done more”. I’ve noticed a lot of this. It is pretty indisputable that Paterno COULD have done more, regardless of whether the report to the AD had yielded an investigation involving authorities (although in that case it would have been moot). There was, in my understanding, nothing that prevented him from calling the police or counseling McQ to do so (we don’t know that he didn’t, but assuming).
But saying he SHOULD have done more is a value judgment. In hindsight, since the way he decided to proceed resulted in a terrible breakdown, the details and causes of which we still do not know, it’s tempting to say he should have done more. But I would hesitate to use the word should until we know exactly what happened. If he knew more graphic details from McQ, if he didn’t follow-up with Curley, if he wasn’t informed that some sort of investigation had been conducted and that it was a misunderstanding, or something of the like then he assuredly should have done more.
2. Justice. Dictionary.com (I know, I know) defines Justice (in the relevant usage) as: “the administering of deserved punishment or reward.”
I think justice has become entire conflated with retribution or punishment. I think this is somewhat the result of the Nancy Grace-ification of America. When someone says “we need to get justice for the victims,” they almost always mean that there needs to be some sort of punishment, that people have to pay, heads need to roll. When someone is deemed not guilty because the government was unable to meet their burden, people cry out that justice has not been served. I understand that there is some play with the “deserved” part of the definition, and it definitely calls for some personal judgment, but I’ve really been taking notice of how people are saying “we need justice” when they really mean “we need to indiscriminately discard anyone who could have had anything to do with this.”
I know you will have more to say on this, but I wanted to bring up my thoughts and see what you could add. Teach!
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 10, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Teach?
You’re doing a damn fine job yourself. I couldn’t agree more on both points.
The term "should" always carries with it some sort of moral imperative whether overtly or covertly. What is usually lost is that a view aided by hindsight misses the historically embedded nature of human action. Every human act is situated in time and place – terms which are themselves inadequate since they imply a thing rather than a dynamic process.
Accordingly, even if/when we do gain further information, definitive judgments will be ironically planted on contingent ground. While ultimately unsatisfying, these things will always remain decentered to some extent. This orientation is precisely way I try to remain self-reflexive and maintain a sense of the tentative. Sometimes good people driven by good intent make monstrously bad choices.
The Nancy Grace-ification of America is a great term and one which nails perfectly the "victims’ rights phenomenon we’ve seen emerge in contemporary America. And while it sounds coarse, if not down right cruel to say it, in the present sense, victims have no rights and that is as it should be.
John Locke’s Second Treatise on Government persuasively argues for the conditions necessary to move from the state of nature and join in civil society, and thus relinquish to a state apparatus full dominion over justice. As I recall, he argues that a government can only retain legitimacy so long as punishment serves either the goal of restraint or that of reparation. Furthermore, he specifically brackets our revenge as a delegitimating force.
Unfortunately, most victims’ rights efforts quickly descend into just that, a quest for vengeance. Sure it is a natural human inclination to do so, but banding together in civil society to escape the state of nature is about going above and beyond the natural; it is about realizing the full potential of our humanness. Here lies the heart of my belief that this problem is a greater threat to our republic than anything from outside. If we proceed on a path that destabilizes faith in our system of justice, then we are already dead.
I was taught this ideal to be the point of the blindfold on the statues of Lady Justice.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Nov 11, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Thank you very much, sir
I wish that more people could understand these concepts.
On a side note, I worked in a DA’s office for about 4 months and prosecuted small cases. I firmly advocated my position and was actually undefeated. However, it makes me absolutely sick to see prosecutors like Nancy Grace. It’s not about “justice” for her, it’s about righteous indignation and, in the guise of an uncontrollable passion for the victims, it’s about her. In some sort of hero or savior role. I’m not saying she doesn’t care about the victims, but you can care about the victims, deeply, and not go on TV screaming about it. She’s a made-for-TV victim’s justice advocate.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, guys, for the great information about the social contract.
I’m not an attorney (have a poli sci minor) but this is exactly what I’ve been arguing with a lawyer friend here at Duke. While many of us wish Big Red would’ve ended this by punching JS’ lights out, most of us are taught at an early age to respect the law, due process, etc. That conditioning certainly influenced people’s reactions to the event and subsequent discussions.
On a somewhat related note: When I was in the Army, we used to practice breaking ambushes. The best ambushes are “L” shaped, which means you as the ambushee would receive fire from your left or right. The best way to break an ambush is to charge into the incoming fire, in hopes of reaching the ambushers and disrupting them. That action is completely opposite from the natural instincts of dropping for cover or running away, and can only be overcome by practice, practice, practice. Many have expected Big Red to have overcome years of conditioning of “Don’t take the law into your own hands.” and be the hero. Tough standard . . . .
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 11, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was just learning about Locke and Hobbes this year.
And I firmly believe we’re descending back into the “state of warre”
"General Lee, I have no football team."
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Nuance...
What people like Poz, Drew Magary, Weinraub and some others have grasped is that the story is nuanced and complicated. It’s ok to think Paterno should have lost his job, but the way in which he did was trite, tack less, and shameful. You can be angry with someone, hurt by them, disappointed by them, but yet still admire them, love them, respect them.
Sandusky remains the monster in this story, no matter what anyone tells you.
10/9/11 - the day the music died.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 11, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
And how many media vans have been parked in front of his house,
compared to Joe’s? Asshats.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 11, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I still don't know..
what Spanier’s, Curley’s, or Schultz’s house looks like. Has no one knocked on their front doors?
10/9/11 - the day the music died.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 11, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Why should they?
EVERYBODY knows Joe is the devil incarnate.
Those are the same “everybody” who, three weeks ago, claimed he was senile and not really a head coach because he didn’t wear headphones on the sidelines . . . .
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 11, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Posnanski is just mad
He has to rewrite his entire book now. Writers are lazy
by A$AP on Nov 12, 2011 11:05 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I too would be mad I'd have to rewrite all of those 0 written words
That’s tough work.
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 12, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Another thoughtful editorial
on how emotionally hard this whole situation is for those who grew up believing in ‘success with honor’. and how we are quick to judge.
http://www.kentucky.com/2011/11/12/1956146/a-penn-state-alums-lament-say.html
by jarosity on Nov 12, 2011 8:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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