Preview: Nebraska At Penn State
Nebraska (7-2 Overall, 3-2 Corn Division) at Penn State (8-1 Overall, 5-0 Pig Division)
Kickoff: Noon, Beaver Stadium, University Park, PA
Line: Nebraska favored by three points
TV: ESPN. Dave Pasch (play-by-play), Urban Meyer (analyst), Chris Spielman (analyst), Tom Rinaldi (sad, dramatic piano music)
Weather: Mostly Sunny, 56 degrees, light west wind
And Here We Are. We're all drained at this point. There will be a game at Beaver Stadium on Saturday afternoon, despite rumors and attention-seeking wails that it should be cancelled for the good of...well, we never got to that part. Such calls remain strictly punitive, and as the great American philosopher Ricky Watters once posed, "For Who, For What?" To punish the players, the fans, Nebraska? ESPN? It's in that vein that, by the time you read this, I will be the 938th person to demand you read Paterno biographer Joe Posnanski's latest update from State College. He says a fourth person will be charged soon, incidentally.
Before wading into the game itself, a few other editorial notes.
First, Give. Listening and watching the media coverage of the scandal, one constant (though tertiary) question keeps being asked: can anything good come of this? Well, the Proud To Be A Penn Stater drive is up to $40,000 as of about 9 p.m. Thursday night, and will almost certainly be over $55,000 by the time you read this on Friday. Proceeds benefit RAINN (The Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network). It won't change what happened in the past, but it most certainly will help future victims and hopefully prevent future sexual crimes. Keep giving. Spread the word on Facebook and Twitter. Make something good come of this.
Hire Ben Jones. Addressed to the people around the country who are only visiting Black Shoe Diaries for updates and reaction on the Sandusky investigation. Most of the writers have full-time careers, and they have nothing to do with sports. We're lawyers, bean counters, and engineers, among other things. However, you know that charming and thoughtful kid you rushed to follow on Twitter this week for timely updates from Happy Valley? The one who, despite never really having done this sort of thing before, was cool and eloquent on ESPN Radio, SportsCenter, and seemingly every radio show imaginable this week? Give him a job. He's earned it. And not one of those jobs where he's forced to cover junior high field hockey and NAIA Hacky Sack, either. His email link is at the bottom of the page. Help a brother out.
For The National Media Still In Town. Don't give up just because you got Paterno and Spanier's scalp. Doing so will only prove to the skeptical that you were there to sensationalize, not to investigate. If there's more work to be done, more victims to be discovered, and more conspiracy to unearth, please do it. I don't care if that means Penn State will be relegated to the MAC -- no, this one -- it's okay with me. Might actually bring ticket prices down a few bucks. And we're totally going to stomp Lebanon Valley College at Homecoming 2013. Eat it, Dutchmen.
What The Hell? Fix This, Karma. I'm sure the only reasons that Tim Curley remains employed and paid by Penn State are liability-based. What else could it be? It still looks awful and unfair.
We've Been Through Enough. Look, I'm struggling to keep the editorializing to a minimum here because you know my stance on any party who knew sexual abuse was happening and didn't do enough to prevent it. And for the 735th time, we're not talking legal responsibility. Joe Paterno never taught anybody that the bare minimum was enough. If you're still arguing that he did his job simply by sending Mike McQueary to Curley and Gary Schultz, you are brainwashed. All of them had to GTFO immediately. Their ghastly sins of omission combined with damage to the institution had been too great.
Argh. Most of the reaction to this entire scandal has actually been quite nuanced and thoughtful, but we all tend to focus on the most extreme. Extreme gets attention. Thursday afternoon, this email to ESPN's Jemele Hill got my attention.
If you're a student or fan thinking about doing something irrational, racist, or violent: yeah, please don't. The media will focus on the 1%. Don't be the 1%. #OccupySanity.
I Don't Even Remember Football Anymore. For real. I want it on my television, preferably on mute, just to associate Penn State with something other than child rape for a few hours. The magnificent trainwreck of the Illinois game seems like elevendy years ago. The last time we saw Penn State on a football field, this was the scene:
Final Moments: Penn State vs. Illinois (via gopennstatefootball)
We were drunk on luck and a suffocating defense, improbably sitting at 8-1 despite having a punchless offense. Joe Paterno was celebrated after the game for passing Eddie Robinson. Nobody knew who Gary Schultz was, and the singular, vital question in everyone's mind was "why the hell were they playing Rob Bolden, anyway?"
Now? Who the hell knows anymore. Paterno is gone. McQueary has officially been shuffled into the dark background. Sponsors are dropping Penn State. Hell, sponsors are dropping us. The football program, long held up as an example of one of the few redeeming things about college athletics, is now beyond toxic. The game? Penn State's players will most certainly be carried by raw emotion for the first ten minutes of the game. How much is that worth? Can it make up for a week filled with the most unimaginable distractions? The players have had their lives emptied and scattered about the national landscape. They're pledging unity. It's all they have left.
Let's Get Those Nerds! Nebraska learned a very important lesson about Big Ten football last week. When you're not careful and prepared, Northwestern will torpedo your season at the worst possible juncture. Were they looking ahead to Penn State? Possibly, and what's their mindset for this week's game? You have to imagine they're wondering, what the hell are we they walking into? It's okay, Huskers. We don't know, either. It's going to be equal parts funeral and Burning Man. Doesn't lead itself to reasoned analysis.
Logistics. Just as important, how does this machine even function from a practical standpoint? With Mike McQueary kept out of the stadium, who is left to send in personnel groupings, nevermind Joe Paterno's carrier pigeon messages from McKee Street. Really, who can't see Paterno writing FB DIVE on 100 scraps of paper with a menagerie of pigeons waiting for release). Serious question, though. Who is the traffic cop on the sideline? Bill Kenney? A graduate assistant? This is senseless. I'm wasting my time here.
Tom Bradley. Congratulations? There will soon be a lot of unemployed people who had nothing to do with Jerry Sandusky's perversions. At worst, this is a three-game audition for Bradley, a chance to pilot a crippled program through the roughest seas imaginable. There are absolutely no expectations. He'll be great, and I hope he's given a serious look for head coaching jobs in the off-season. The man deserves it. I hope this scandal doesn't make him radioactive. Same goes for the other coaches, provided they weren't in on any cover-up.
Prediction In GIF Form?
Look, it's going to be weird. Exciting, mysterious, sad, infuriating -- pretty much everything rolled into one ball of emotion with a giant question mark nail-gunned to it in thirty spots. Go enjoy a game of football. Allow it to be cathartic. It won't be easy, but it also won't be easy waiting nine months for Penn State to take the field in a real game at Beaver Stadium.
I hope Penn State wins, and had this penciled in as a win since August. However, I believe PSU's disorganization and lack of focus will be too much to overcome.
Nebraska 20, Penn State 10.
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$59, 360
at 8:15 this morning.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Also
while I agree that Jemele is a hack, yea, don’t do that. That’s bad.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Its terrible
When you stoop to racism, especially on that level, any and all valid points (Jemele is a hack) no longer hold any weight because the conversation is now effectively focused on your idiocy. And it makes all of us look bad.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
Also reading the comments on her column I’m not sure it’s fair to say this was a penn state person. There were plenty on there bashing penn state and jemele.
What, exactly, was the point
of including a link to that disgusting e-mail?
You’ve made your opinion known – over and over and over again. That’s fine; it’s kinda your blog. I just don’t see what’s gained by trying to throw another pile of garbage onto PSU’s image. That e-mailer is an ass, but he’s not us.
Good grief.
"That Craig James gets such prominent assignments remains a mystery on the D.B. Cooper scale."
Richard Deitsch on Craig James, who allegedly killed 5 hookers while at SMU.
by Pete the Streak on Nov 11, 2011 8:23 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
For the same reason we attack the MSM of only providing one side,
I think Chris is trying to show you what else is out there, the vitriol being spewed by some awful people. Don’t be those people.
___
Black Shoe Diaries
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 11, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This. We are Penn State. We're hurting. Don't add fuel to the fire.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
exactly
we are as responsible as anyone to help repair the image of the university
racially charged emails are not the way to do it
let's go state
yes
i wasnt planning on sending any racially charged emails, like ever, anyway.
but now I definitely wont do it.
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i hope you join my personal campaign as well
i am rec’ing any comment that makes me LOL this week
+1
let's go state
This is not kinda Chris Grovich's blog!
He’s just a guy who posts here, but with a few more tech features tied to his screen name. Like everybody else who also writes here (in comments, fanposts or masthead), he’s flawed. He’s either naive or disingenous, but who can tell what his intent or agenda is anymore. He’s damn sure not been leading.
Beyond the questionable inclusion of this dumb email that Pete brings up and the continued berating of this wonderful community’s readership that Mr. Easy has, this article’s problems include:
- Continued oversimplification of a ridiculously complex issue (‘any party who knew sexual abuse was happening and didn’t do enough to prevent it.‘)
- Continued irresponsible assumptions in the face of massive missing pieces of information (’Joe Paterno never taught anybody that the bare minimum was enough.‘)
- More misplaced justifications (’Extreme gets attention.’)
Grovich has a PR problem right now and I plea with the other smart members of the author team to help him with it, to the extent he’d be willing to listen. BSD was not built like BHGP was (by a cohesive team with specific plans as to its scope & tone). It had a single founder and the community grew organically. But Grovich could learn some things from our friends at the Pants and take the reader derision back further away from the public sphere.
by jtothep on Nov 11, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 19 recs
This
It had a single founder and the community grew organically.
I think we haven’t necessarily been fair about everything with Mr. Grovich and that is because we feel ownership of this place. Many of us have been here for a long time. Some of us actually did writing (really bad at times) for the site on front page posts. Because of this we feel like we are more than just “readers” and when we feel disrespected we react with fury. As Mr. Grovich has learned.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Rec.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Attention *everyone*.
Kevin and I actually discussed this last night. There’s been a very, very long leash around here for long-time commenters (and new commenters, for that matter) to air their opinions, not only about this scandal, but about the people writing about it. Mostly everyone has been respectful and thoughtful.
Attacking the authors like this, however, isn’t going to be tolerated. If your primary purpose of hanging around here is to whine about how great BSD was before we took over, take it elsewhere, please.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
and the censorship begins
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
whoa.... easy....
jtothep is a friend of mine as is Paige2PSU, MainLion and others… the reaction is mostly based on the tweets from the other night from you, my friend. That is what I am feeling and what most of this is alluding to.
I DM’d you on twitter and told you how I felt but will still be here at BSD (as long as I am allowed) as it is my family. Many were very put off by your comments and it was a very toxic and chaotic time over several hours where we were all throwing our emotions out. But…
WE ARE…. A FAMILY!!!
You did cross the line that night, whether you want to admit it or not. Many of us did with our opinions, but we also do not run BSD. You are in a position of great influence.
That evening and time was one that we have never seen the like of in our proud history. It was an aberration that will never be seen again. Knee-jerk reaction by all of us was excusable, to an extent. We were all dying inside.
I am not calling for massive reformatting or even the old days. I only want what we all had on Saturdays which was an open thread to share with my FAMILY as I have none to speak of anymore in the real world. BSD has been that for me.
It was horrible to read on twitter that people were being banned. On that night, of all nights, emotions were high and ridiculous. You needed to take a backseat and let the mob (save WORF, the douche) air it out. It really was your tweets that sent the mob into a frenzy.
For all that we loved in the past don’t let BSD fall apart in the wake of this disaster. We all worked too hard and grew together as a family to see it go down this way. Hell, I know I have been emotional as hell through it all, as well. But what can you expect? We are watching our childhoods or lifetimes in what we believed in get shredded by ESPN and every other outlet.
Let’s settle down and let this play out. Make it to Saturday, meet in the open threads and HUG IT OUT BITCHES (or ban me… either way at least I tried)
You really are all truly my family and thank you for everything so far.
WE ARE…
Follow @TheMightyErik
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
I disagree and my decisions aren't changing, but I appreciate the opinion.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
all I can do is try, my friend...
as I told you, you are in an unenviable position. You are following in BSDMike’s footsteps a’la whoever succeeds JoePa. I haven’t been along for the ride as long as many have but love everyone in here (whether they agree with me, or not! lol)
Let’s get through this… ALL of us… as jtothep said in tweet, UNITY is key. You may not love your family all the time but you damn sure can’t choose them, either.
Not giving up on:
Penn State
JoePa
our amazing kids in Blue and White
everything we stand for
BSD Nation
Follow @TheMightyErik
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Man. I just don't get it.
I guess I’ve never taken the site author’s posts and opinions too seriously. Maybe I’m not an intellectual enough reader to be offended? How is an author supposed to appease everyone? Fuckin’ a. I’m very disappointed in quite a few actions on here this week.
Chris, I plead with you to review all users you banned this week at some time in the future, and try and reconcile. This week has shaken us all to the core, and I understand there has been some irrational behavior. You know, when the ‘change’ happened earlier this year, I was upset about some of the tone being thrown around, but I took a break, and came back. Don’t take anothers words so seriously people.
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
by hbeach08 on Nov 11, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
^this
of all the people in BSD you have to hear him out
Follow @TheMightyErik
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member
by TheMightyErik on Nov 11, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Put it this way, Rambler called me "Pussy" in a one-word comment
And he was only banned for about 36 hours. Horse N Buggy was banned for about 12 hours after he called me a motherfucker and demanded to be banned.
I’m not exactly an unreasonable person, but I’m not in a particularly gracious or forgiving mood right now.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
understood
I just hope when this settles down a bit…reconciliation happens between parties who mutually want it to happen. that is all
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
by hbeach08 on Nov 11, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So if I say what Rambler did
AND what HnB did, while demanding to be banned, does that mean I’m banned for 48 hours?
/not actually asking to be banned
//just trying to be snarky
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
woah take a step back for a second and breathe
Attacking the authors like this, however, isn’t going to be tolerated
Whether or not you agree, it comes with the territory of being a fan whose opinions get to be published on the front page. However, there is a comments section, conveniently, for us to comment on the story. That is why they are there.
You cant go banning everyone that disagrees with you, that would make BSD like North Korea.
I think we all need to relax here, from the “lowly commenters” to the “highest” of authors. This week has thrown at all of us a years worth of emotions in 4 days. We can safely say we are in a territory no fan base has ever been in before.
If people want to criticize you thats their right. They are the people who read what you write. Whether its drivel or pulitzer prize winning. Lets calm down on this whole idea, though, of intimidating your readers from treating you like everyone else. You are just like everyone else. Youre not a trained writer or a journalist or an insider any more than I am or anyone else. You are a fan whose opinions are subject to the same applause and ridicule as everyone else’s. Let’s not get all carried away and start (or continue) to ban longtime members and friends of the community who have had more than their share of solid contributions to the site as a whole just because they found your anti-PSU opinions to be offensive and inflammatory in a time when everyone’s emotions are on overdrive.
And if that gets me banned too, remember me as a martyr.
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This is complete nonsense. You're *trying* to be a martyr.
You cant go banning everyone that disagrees with you, that would make BSD like North Korea.
Yes, just like North Korea and I am banning everyone that disagrees with me. Get a grip.
Let’s not get all carried away and start (or continue) to ban longtime members and friends of the community who have had more than their share of solid contributions to the site as a whole just because they found your anti-PSU opinions to be offensive and inflammatory in a time when everyone’s emotions are on overdrive.
“Your anti-PSU opinions”? Seriously? I criticize how people at Penn State handle CHILD RAPE, and people who continue to support the people who failed to report CHILD RAPE, therefore I have anti-PSU opinions. Simply astounding.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh stop, im not trying to be anything
criticisms are getting to you. you have to have thicker skin than this, especially if you want to be the “author”
bannings, if to be used at all, are for people who are constant jerks to the community as a whole, not to people who disagree vehemently with your opinions. if, when overrun with the emotions of the last few days, these disagreements cross the line a bit, then you as the almighty author should be the bigger man, take a chill pill, and let them vent their anger. Otherwise remove the comment section as a whole.
Your opinions about PSU are probably perfectly warranted to many. Yet you also, as someone so in touch with the fan base, must understand that saying things like “anyone who thinks Joe Paterno should still be here is brainwashed” (and who brainwashed us by the way? The media? You?) or tweeting at the height of everyone frustration what you did is going to create a backlash. One that you were not willing or able to handle.
Its “simply astounding” to me that you fail to understand what incensed so many people during this emotionally charged and unprecedented time. That your method of response is to simply silence their voice is “complete nonsense.”
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
even the BSD tagline at the top is enough to incite anger.
why cant it be something positive?
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just frustrated that showing loyalty and giving the benefit of the doubt
to someone like Paterno is considered brainwashing. I know pretty much everyone here that is currently defending Paterno will pounce on him if and when it is found that he actually did what some people are speculating, but until that time it is just that: speculation.
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What's the matter Chris?
Too many people disagreeing with the narrative that you’ve driven into BSD since the takeover? So now friends of mine like jtothep, Paige, MainLion, Rambler and others are all gone? Why? Because they called you out for being an ass? I’m sooooo glad I quit when I did back in September because this place has really turned into a load of crap thanks to you. I figured I’d stop back one last time, just to point out how shitty you’ve made this place, not that you’d listen anyway, because, what the hell do we know? We’re just lowly commenters on the Grovich Shoe Diaries.
BSD used to feel like family to me. We could joke around with each other. Some arguments and disagreements would always pop up but they were debated like adults, but now as soon as someone bucks the authority, they’re gone. Someone tells me you described the commenters on BSD the other night on Twitter as “98% crazy, and 2% mad”? Is that really how a moderator should act to his readers?
It’s because of people like you that our fanbase is so bipolar: “This team sucks (despite the fact we’re 8-1)”, “Joe should go and is a horrible human being for not acting (despite being lied to that an investigation was taking place).” Blah, blah, blah.
So that’s pretty much it. I just wanted to say congrats to you on whatever it is you’ve done to this place, because it sure as fuck isn BSD.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Nov 11, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That fourth person
better be Graham Spanier.
"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92
by leeharvey418 on Nov 11, 2011 8:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Undoubtedly.
___
Black Shoe Diaries
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 11, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
Don't kill me
but I don’t think anyone has devil’s advocated on behalf of Dr. Spanier.
What if his involvement was this:
Schultz: Dr. Spanier, I just wanted to inform you that we received allegations of some sort of impropriety involving horsing around betwee former coach Sandusky and a young boy in the locker room that made several people uncomfortable. We investigated it and found nothing actionable, but as a precaution, we’ve decided to inform the Second Mile and revoke Mr. Sandusky’s privileges to bring children from his charity onto campus. Will you sign this.
Spanier: You say you investigated it?
Schultz: Yes, Dr. Spanier.
Spanier: Alright
/signs paper
/signs 200 other papers that day, based on similar reports from administrators
I mean, from the Grand Jury testimony, this story is just as feasible as a wilfull cover-up. I don’t actually believe it, but I don’t believe anything else either.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
may be true
he still said nothing throughout this whole ordeal, which made this whole situation worse. He deserved to be fired. Maybe not tried, but fired.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN
Follow @134Lounge
Absolutely correct...
I’ve seen nothing to tell me any potential cover-up (“potential” since cover-up implies intent — something quite far afield from incompetence) reached the “Oval Office.” However, once the news broke, Spanier could not have handled it more poorly had that been his desired outcome.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Nov 11, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I was fine with Spanier being admonished by the Board of Trustees until he released that awful statement on Saturday night.
Then I thought he should be officially censured. Then as he remained silent and let the campus burn, I thought he should be fired.
His response to crisis only proves him unfit to be a university president at this juncture. Stand up and take charge.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Nov 11, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I agree with that statement 100%
Even if it turns out he is 100% innocent and knew absolutely nothing he still needed fired for the way he handled the crisis.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
His fate was "unconditionally" sealed with that first statement.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
What? That's inconceivable!
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
#OccupyESPN
I am currently giving Spanier the same benefit of the doubt I am extending to Paterno
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
that is fair
and no previous actions by the man would encourage me to do otherwise
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
i honestly think that maybe
just maybe.,…spanier is one of the few people to realize how big this is. a lot of people don’t. we have left OJ in our fucking wake. and some idiots in central PA and elsewhere don’t realize that
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Patriot-News continuing to fill the holes in the backstory .
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 8:32 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
They have been outfront this whole time
Kudos to them for continuing to dig unlike every other news outlet.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Nov 11, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Sara Ganim is a full blown sniper with her coverage
That’s a complement by the way
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
she has been excellent
thorough and factual
unlike so much of the rest of the coverage. i wish people would learn from her.
let's go state
She deserves a Pulitzer for this.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Nov 11, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
One wins a pulitzer for discovering things that then go to grand juries
Not for following up after one’s already happened. If she discovers new charges or victims, then she might have a chance, but the reporting she’s doing now, while solid, isn’t typically the stuff that one wins a Pulitzer for.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
He might be exaggerating
But I believe she uncovered a sister of a victim who goes to Penn State.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I Read about that victim's sister
What she has been going through is truly awful.
Reputation-Vile Thing! (Othello)
Thanks for the link
Great read. Well, you know, the journalism part. The inaction of the adults in this situation is remarkable. I can see how it’s difficult to talk about due to the nature of the situation, but it seems like it was specifically uncomfortbale to the superiors that received the information. Uncomfortable enough to change the story in your head and not do anything about it.
White Horn Gold Pants
Reading the Patriot-News made me realize
how little actual reporting is done these days. The “news”, both on TV, print and online is almost entirely commentary.
by psualum9931 on Nov 11, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What better way to calm an angry mob
than to make them watch a Penn State offensive drive.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 8:38 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Calm them or kill them?
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
That's the first one
There have been posts this week that have calmed me down, made me smile, made me shake my head at the irony.
But that’s the first one that actually, literally made me laugh.
Well played, sir.
by tuscaloosalion on Nov 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
If the former AD is Curley, does that make his replacement Shemp?
I thought that was hilarious, can’t remember who wrote it though.
This, Chris, I can agree with
If you’re still arguing that he did his job simply by sending Mike McQueary to Curley and Gary Schultz, you are brainwashed
The problem is, not all of us are arguing that. Specifically, most of us are wondering if he didn’t follow up. We don’t know. Maybe we never will.
Also, 20? You think a Nebraska team that couldn’t get to 20 on jNW’s pitiful defense can put up more than 10 on us? No way. All of our defensive coordinators are still there, on the sideline. I’m going with 13-7 good guys.
Still and Hill wreak havoc. The DE’s contain Martinez. Hodges lays the wood on Martinez early, and he plays jittery the rest of the game. Amos and Sukay both have an interception apiece. Someone else pulls down a third.
The offense plays the first drive inspired, scoring the only touchdown of the day. Silas and the O-line run over a Crickless Nebraska defense. Special teams and Defense win this for us.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 8:44 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Right
I think what I’m getting more annoyed by than anything is the people assuming they know exactly what Joe (and McQueary, and others) did or didn’t do, what they were thinking, and what their motivations were. And I don’t mean that to say we should assume the best. Hell, Joe may could have been the leader of an entire cover-up and ordered a hit on Ray Gricar for all we know.
by speedomike on Nov 11, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I was talking about this yesterday at work
And what pisses me off more than anything, is when I get dismissed as having put blind faith in Joe Paterno because I haven’t rushed to judgement based on a limited amount of facts. With the facts right now, the story could be told in a number of compelling and plausible ways.
I’ve enjoyed BSD this week because there was a substantial amount of actual, rational debate (sans a few trolls) among the commentariat.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Here here
I’ve pretty much stopped going to any and all websites this week besides this one, mainly because I knew that I could count on the editors and community at large to avoid the rampant speculation.
I’ve said all along, I want the truth to come out and when/if it does, then I’ll judge. If Joe was king of the castle and led the coverup, I’ll be the first one to burn his name in effigy (only slightly exaggerating). I just want to punch things when people claim the GJ is all the facts. It’s purpose is to prove there is enough evidence to file charges/go to court.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Nov 11, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Me too
And I am boycotting ESPN except to watch college football, but will have the sound off at all times
by UPSUPhilly on Nov 11, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We put up 24 on Mich State and 34 on Ohio State.
We have a penchant for beating “States” and a weakness for directional named teams.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Nov 11, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I find it kinda interesting that I've never associated Northwestern with being a directional school.
I mean how can you get more directional than completely being a direction and not even the name of a state in there? But something about “directional” schools just seems lesser to me, and Northwestern is so solid academically that I just never made that connection.
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
HA!
Jokes on you. Penn State’s BOT decided to change the name to start the new image. WE ARE Central PSU. Beeyatch!!!!
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Nebraska's capable of more than they showed against jNW, offensively.
And I’m factoring in a little offensive derpitude in our own end due to the dysfunction on offense. Might get away with it against Illinois, but not Nebraska.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
On the bright side I guess now we get to see if Joe really was the only guy who wanted to play Bolden.
I thought
McGloin was Joe’s guy?
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
I never thought of this before
but Chris does bring up a good point, who will be traffic cop? If Mike isn’t on the sidelines, does Jay do it?
Quick, somebody bring in DC17!
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
@ Chris Grovich
I get it that you are taking a very strong stance against Child Molestation. I think we all can say WE ALL FEEL THE SAME WAY. But some of us want the full story before we can say Joe got what he deserved. I am not about to hash out the same arguments that have been made ad nauseam in the past few days. But for the sake of your readership please stop putting us down. I am not brainwashed because I believe there is more to the story than what we know, and that I don’t think Joe would have knowingly let children get raped in his showers. His life’s work leads me to believe it cannot be true, and until I find out the whole story I will remain skeptical of the situation. You can call it brainwashing, I call it sensibility.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 9:12 AM EST reply actions 24 recs
I think he's saying that doing the bare minimum is not adequate.
You’re saying you want to hear JoePa’s side of the story.
So at least you two agree that JoePa did the minimum required. Peace?
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don't necessarly agree he did the bare minimum required
With the current information it sure appears that way. But we as a society are basing everything we know about this situation on 23 pages of Grand Jury testimony. Not court transcripts. Until I see the transcripts of the case, or watch the trial I am apt to believe that a man with a 60 year track record of doing things the right way didn’t turn a blind eye. Crucify me if you want, and plenty will, but I am reserving my judgment.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I think there's validity to you reserving judgment
But the Trustees could NOT reserve judgment. In the court of public opinion, Penn State University is already guilty of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse. If the Trustees did not take swift action against all associated with the case, unfortunately including Joe Paterno, the public would continue to believe that the University’s leadership cared more for its own people than for the victims.
The Trustees have a grave responsibility to the students, alumnni, taxpayers, etc. For them to continue to reserve judgment on Paterno would have only further crippled the school. Sad as it is, what was best for the University was not best for Joe Paterno.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Nov 11, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure the BOT could have reserved judgment
It would have been difficult, but it also would have been the right thing to do. While I think they wanted to do the right thing, they simply had no intention of doing anything that would be hard.
by kijana's acl on Nov 11, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
the BoT did not take swift action against all involved
Curley is still employed. McQueary is still employed. if they took action against everyone then my view on this would be a little different. As it stands they caved to media pressure and dumped JoePa to appease the media
by mjs2103 on Nov 11, 2011 10:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 7 recs
The BoT
They also allowed Spanier (who is rumored to be facing charges soon) to resign on his own terms and issue a statement saying that he had done nothing wrong. They allowed Shultz, also charged with perjury, to retire on his own terms. Tim Curley, also charged with perjury, is allowed to be administrative leave while retaining representation paid for by the university.
Apparently, the AG is pretty interested in their reasoning link
Forgive me if I’m not overly impressed by their judgement.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
“We have a cooperating witness [Paterno], an individual who testified, provided truthful testimony,” Hagen-Frederiksen told ABCNews.com, “but two others who were found by a grand jury to commit perjury whose legal expenses are being paid for university. One is on administrative leave. Very interesting development.”
I wonder if they are brainwashed?
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
another good statement from the AG's spokesman
“It’s certainly curious and [has] not been explained yet,” he said. “Speaking as a prosecuting agency, we have a cooperating witness who has not been charged, while two individuals accused of committing crimes continue to be affiliated.”
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Or if they're protecting the credibility of their witness.
They’re not releasing the head of the AG’s press office just to give off-the-cuff opinions on why PSU is firing people. I’ve been part of creating press releases in these sorts of cases for the state. They’re not doing this to say, “aww, poor JoePa, unfair!”
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I am not concerned with the BoT
Realistically they were in a bad spot, one created by the failings of those who are paid large sums of money to prevent such things from occurring. I don’t blame them for letting Joe go, I understand now that it HAD to be done to move forward. Do I agree with the rationale they provided to the public? No. Do I agree with their handling of this crisis? No. Nothing I will ever say will get Joseph V. Paterno his job back.
What I am talking about is the man’s legacy. Before I accept that my professional role model knowingly harbored a sexual monster I want more facts. That is what I am talking about.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
And to expand on this thought
I have had a little bit of a struggle the past few days with coping with who I am, and who I want to be professionally after this. Many of you work in an office building, or are lawyers, or other great and meaningful professions. But I am a head high school football coach. In my office is a signed painting of Joe. Paterno: By the Book is displayed on my desk like the family bible. I have preached success with honor to my team since I took over. I cited Joe Paterno as who I would like to emulate when I was interviewed for this position. What better person/program could you emulate in this profession?
Now this. I wore a Penn State coaches shirt yesterday, and when people asked about it I said I still believe that Penn State stands for alot of good. I want to believe that.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I don't mean to say I feel different, or that I should feel greater about it than one of you, or to discount your feelings
I just wanted to point out how strong an influence the man has had on me professionally. And why I want to reserve my judgement until I find out the whole story. I am just having a difficult time expressing this all.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I have a very similar take as you
My grandfather was like the JoePa of my town. He was little league baseball. He coached for 43 years all head coach of the same team. He played it by the book. every year, the first practice was not on the field but in clubhouse where he would break out a binder that had to be 200 pages long. In that binder he would talk about what it meant to be on the Reds. He preached that honor and sportsmanship are what matter most. I know he had trouble making kids on his team and he would always try his best to turn them around. I remember the times he sat his best players because they broke the rules. I know many people who say that they played for the Reds and you could tell they were truly proud of that. I just searched his name and found this link to a story by a former player www.knuckleheadhumor.com/2010/03/coach-fellins-rules.html he was my personal JoePa which is why I’m waiting for the facts to come out before rushing to judgement
by mjs2103 on Nov 11, 2011 10:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sounds like a great man
That is something to be proud of and use as a model on how to lead your life.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
seconded
i am a high school baseball coach and throughout all inteviews i have ever done i have always said i would conduct my baseball program like the penn state football program and in the ways of joe paterno….it is hard but i think eventually i will still be able to explain this reasoning to people
by va2pennstate on Nov 11, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I just hate that the BoT thought they HAD to fire JoePa.
Sure things would have dragged out and would have been ugly, but it also could have been the right thing to do. If they at least handled it slightly differently and released a statement to the effect of, “while there is currently no evidence of wrongdoing by Joseph Paterno we realize that there is a massive public magnifying glass on the program and his presence is just serving as a distraction not only to our athletic department, but also to our academic programs. To that effect we are temporarily placing him on administrative leave until more facts are discovered through a complete investigation. We owe it to the victims, to Paterno, and to everyone else involved to handle this investigation as carefully as possible.”
Instead they fired him over a phone call.
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BOT could have put Joe on indefinite suspension...
…pending the results of the investigation (or until he retired). This would have accomplished their goal of getting Joe off the sidelines while maintaining some form of dignity for him (and the school).
by nuker77 on Nov 11, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly, they could have even said "without pay" to say they aren't even paying the guy
Instead they shed his professional blood to satisfy the hunger of the Media Terror.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
man I wish I could just read through the whole comments before making any of my own :-p
beat to this by about 12 hours
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
This is the divisive underlying subtext of this whole debate
The right thing for JoePa vs. the right thing for the University.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
If you want to make it that way
Like I said before: Joseph V. Paterno will never coach again. That is fact.
I am more concerned at this point with those in this country who sanctimoniously vilified both Joe, and anyone who supports rationale thought as being “delusional”, “brainwashed”, sympathetic to NAMBLA, or worse a molester themselves.
For over 60 years Joe stood for something better, and I at this point want to see if that is the rest of the story.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Well, that's really the point of view to the two sides of the debate
You say Joe, he says University. I’m not being facetious, that’s literally what the two sides are throwing at each other.
I don’t know what Chris said during the firing-day flame war so I’ll just stay out of that one.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
That is exactly the opposite of what the BoT said to do
I don’t know how many times John Surma said to reserve judgment until all facts are known. Talk about hypocritical. They only took swift action against Joe. They took the easiest way out, and then tried to soothe people by convincing them it was the only way. Public opinion should not supersede the actual legal process. I understand a desire to get it under control, but they dropped the ball so bad for the first five days that nothing could really save them in that regard. In fact, I think their decision may have made it worse, but that’s just me.
this has been argued ad nauseum
but the bot had to do what was in the best interest of every person who carries the psu name. unfortunately it was reactionary in the face of unending media coverage. but everyone who carries “penn state” on their heart or work badge would be judged as the media continued to drag paterno and penn state through the mud.
it was sad…but as someone on here said, paterno’s last great act was taking the fall for the entire university in this mess
let's go state
how does completely fire him really do more
than just placing him on leave pending an investigation? If the investigation goes against him, then he was effectively fired from that point on. If the investigation vindicates him, then they have a way to welcome him back "no harm no foul’
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
The BOT absolutely could have reserved judgement
This could have been a defining moment, where the administration stood up for a man who has dedicated his life to the school. They could have stood up and put their full support behind Joe until the entire story is revealed. They had no problem doing that with Curley or Schultz, but apparently it was too much to ask for them to do so with Joe. Hell, they could have at least invited Joe to the meeting and asked him for his side of the story.
Instead of making a hard choice to reserve judgment until all the facts are known, the BOT made the cowardly decision to sever ties with Joe to appease the media. They allowed everyone else involved in the situation to keep their dignity except for Joe. That, to me, is a travesty.
And to make matters worse, the new president had the nerve to come out and ask alumni to reserve judgment until all the facts are released. To give the BOT ANY support for the way they handled this is ridiculous.
by ppfcpp on Nov 11, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I've said this several times already
but I’ll say it again: If the world’s standards are what we’re to aspire to, then what Penn State taught me is a lie.
Formerly known as kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
by Kyle_Martin on Nov 11, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think its more of a reaction to how Chris said it
And how he has continued to say it. Of all the people involved in reasonable debate over these past few days, I can honestly say I don’t put Chris in that category. He has good points, but has been utterly dismissive of anything running contrary to the opinion he had already formed. He’s let them exist because he is a good manager of the site, but many feel as though he’s used his platform to unfairly marginalize his readership in a similar manner to how we feel the main stream media has been handling this.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 11, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 15 recs
Recs for both you and carolina
I’m appalled that something like this could occur at all, especially at some place I love and so closely associate with.
My only problem is with the rush to judgement and dismissive tone with which I, and many others like you and carolinaeasy, are told that we’re naive or just fools because we’d like to get a more complete accounting of the facts before we string anyone up.
It’s scary to me how many of the same people screaming for blood now and demanding firings and resignations were the same folks that were ok with torturing suspected terrorists in gitmo and thought the Patriot Act was necessary, or anywhere close to Patriotic.
I may disagree with someone’s opinion, and even refuse to argue against that opinion because I disagree on the merit of said opinion, but I’d like to think I’d never be dismissive of someone’s opinion based solely on my own opinion.
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
by nylyst on Nov 11, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
nice
Bring politics into already heated situation.
by Mark Mandingo on Nov 11, 2011 10:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Had a nice snarky reply
ready to go and reread my original post.
In my view there’s nothing political about comparing the reaction to the trampling of peoples rights (our world post 9/11) to the reaction to the trampling of other peoples rights (our world post Sandusky scandal).
That one of the instances was an extremely heated political topic and the other was an extremely heated political topic has nothing to do with the merit of my argument, so my opinion should just be discarded, right?
How is someone who is calling for calm, rational thought in BOTH situations supposed to respond? Honestly, I’m asking because I don’t know anymore. I certainly don’t defend hurting others for ANY reason, but I do expect that in a civilized society we should not act rashly because even one innocent/good person being trampled in the rush to judgement is TOO MANY in my opinion.
Oh and welcome to BSD: Joined Black Shoe Diaries – 11/08/11 4:40 PM EST
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
by nylyst on Nov 11, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
this brings back the comparison the duke lax kids
they were crucified publicly, their own university demonstrated against them, they had their season canceled. and then it turned out that the woman who cried rape had done this before and was kind of a crack head.
if you skew that comment as me condoning rape or not believing those kids, please don’t reply.
let's go state
I do not!
I’m right there with you and fear that it may already be too late for the damage that was done in the rush to judgement to ever fully be repaired.
That the primary focus of this whole debacle has not been on Sandusky, his alleged victims (and yeah, I know at this point it’s overwhelmingly looking like ‘alleged’ is just there to keep from getting sued should he somehow avoid conviction, but innocent until proven guilty applies across the board.) and the HORRIBLE response to all of these allegations by the Universtiy, the BoT and everyone else involved (Yes, even Joe has admitted that in HINDSIGHT, he wishes he had done more, but sadly no one cares to hear the full accounting of facts before issuing their verdict)
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
innocent until proven guilty
is an integral piece of this country. despite its failures – i believe there is almost no more important right.
let's go state
by 424E. on Nov 11, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He, like others
Don’t like when someone brings things like logic and facts to a debate. They like to use emotion and antagonistic responses to force everyone to their worldview.
I’m betting he doesn’t come back to respond to my response.
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
I simply pointed out
That you were bringing your own can of gas to a burning fire. Yeah I just joined. So what. Its not like I’m calling you an idiot or anything, just pointing out that you’re just going to start trouble if you bring other hotly debated matters to compare with this one. If you don’t get why that may be unwise, lostsa luck to ya.
by Mark Mandingo on Nov 11, 2011 11:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
With that user name,
I hope you are/were a Jayhawk fan.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
and I'm glad
you have me figured out from 2 short sentences that didn’t refer to anything regarding this case.
by Mark Mandingo on Nov 11, 2011 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Never said I had you figured out
But I don’t think it’s out of line to point out that you joined the blog just as the scandal was kicking in, and in fact your first post was that 2 sentence reply to me.
And that’s exactly the point my original post was trying to make, is that emotions should have nothing to do with meting out justice.
In both examples, people were so angry about everything that had happened, they were willing to compromise their own values for a near term solution that had (and will continue to have) far reaching consequences that have nothing to do with Justice, fairness or doing the right thing.
And just so we’re clear here, I’m not picking on you personally, for all I know you could feel the exact same way I do and just thought my inclusion of a similarly emotionally charged situation was a bad idea.
Unfortunately, you haven’t expressed a viewpoint either way yet, so, like I’m doing for JVP, I’m not going to rush to judgement.
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
whatever you say
It was my first comment here, but I’m no stranger to other sb nation blogs. One of the golden rules on a lot of other blogs is no politics, and even though I’m sure we agree in the area of torture and its use, about half the US population disagrees with us. In the blogs I frequent, it would get flagged. But I’m just a guest here, if you guys discuss politics a lot on here, then I guess its no big deal.
by Mark Mandingo on Nov 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
agreed
why is it, if i make a comment is support of Joe, I am a child molester, an enabler or brainwashed?
Why cant i just be a sane person waiting for all the facts to come out before i crucify a man who has earned the benefit of the doubt?
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
because Rabble, Rabble, Rabble
people sound just like the characters from south park. www.youtube.com/watchv=9fEjJ4Ecy9Q
by mjs2103 on Nov 11, 2011 10:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
And the worst part is when people in your own fan base make you feel that way
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
yea, maybe i expect it from my friends who arent PSU fans
who, by the way, still think joe should have called the police, which shows just how little of the matter they actually understand.
You know what I say to that? Schultz "Supervisor of University Park Police"
and when they laugh and say “University Park Police what a joke”. I tell them to go get a speeding ticket and not pay it, or go there and get arrested by them and then tell me if you are laughing.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
its not even that
its as if they know, for a fact that if Joe Paterno calls another police department, Jerry Sandusky is arrested within minutes. This despite like 50 variables.
Like for starters, Joe calls police and says he heard this, the police then would go to McQueary, which is what Schultz did. So far the events are the same. The police would then interview mcqueary and investigate. like Schultz did. Where is the difference? Is the difference that this “phantom” police department would file charges?
Interesting thought, but lets not forget that two police investigations outside the one done by the “police Joe should have called” in a matter of 4 years didn’t lead to Sandusky being charged with anything. Why this “other” police department that Joe should have called, who by the by lacks jurisdiction in the matter, is going to be the one to file charges because Joe called them in addition to the campus police I have no idea.
Everyone is speaking in absolutes. Yet there so far are no absolutes out there in which to base these charges.
by swiggy04 on Nov 11, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wasn't referring to you specifically
But now that you bring it up…
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
You're not reading.
“If you’re still arguing that he did his job simply by sending Mike McQueary to Curley and Gary Schultz, you are brainwashed.”
My issue is with the people who end their support of JoePa with this. Oh, well the information got to Curley and Schultz, so that’s that. Clean hands. Maybe you specifically aren’t saying that, but many are.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I think that this is the first time
you have articulated this nuance in a way such that I noticed.
It makes a difference.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
One of the problems
Is that those kinds of explanations only come after getting called out.
What’s so hard about doing that up front? Just doesn’t care to?
And, lest anyone try, we’ve pretty much already covered the culpability in a misunderstanding thing, right?
"Did his job"
does not really mean the same thing as “has clean hands”
One could say he “did his job” by sending McQueary to Curley and Schultz. But it didn’t end up being investigated and dealt with correctly through that avenue. That he could have done something differently, followed up, leaned on them to do something, or involved other authorities means you could reasonably say he doesn’t have clean hands. Does pointing that out mean I’m brainwashed?
May sound like semantics. But if you express a personal opinion, that’s fine, and you might get disagreement, but you won’t get attacked. When you say passive-aggressive and insulting things about people who think a certain way, well you better believe your words are going to be parsed. And if your reasoning is not air tight, then prepare for backlash.
I don’t hate your opinion, but I do hate your attitude. I hate the way that you say certain things in a very smarmy and passive-aggressive way. I hate the way you dismiss a lot of people’s opinions, not by disagreeing civilly, but by insulting those people and attacking their ability to be rational.
I also can’t help but imagine you, during this whole thing, reveling in the love and attention you’re getting from people at BHGP and other sites, who you have a ridiculous throbbing boner for and always have. “Can you believe the crazies over at BSD yelling at Chris?” they ask, while you smile and enjoy finally getting a seat at the cool kids table.
In an effort not to be as chickenshit, know-it-all and passive-aggressive as you, I’ve finally written this post, and I’m directly calling you out. I don’t like they way you’ve gone about things. I don’t waste words, and I think the last time I singled out a poster like this was probably brd way back in the day. You can be better than this.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Nov 11, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I had decided
That Jacobi was probably right when he said in their last podcast together that :
I know you guys, clearly, want the best for Penn State and you don’t want bad things to happen to the football program…I decided then to try to give him the benefit of the doubt. But yeah, that cool kids table has often had me wondering.
And hell, now that things are burned to the ground, we’ll get to see what he wants to do with a totally clean slate.
Asking a question here
Why? They are imploring you to do better.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If that's what you call it.
I’m not asking for much here.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
We aren't asking for much either. Just try and be a little more thoughtful with your adjectives that describe those who don't necessarily agree with you.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Speaking for myself...
I’ve never launched one invective at you, but you have repeatedly derided my thought as “reprehensible,” “brainwashed,” etc.
Serious questions: Do you think that people won’t respond harshly when you set the tone of the discussion as such? Do you really want an environment where the commentariat is all in agreement because the dissenters are banned?
by mushdamma on Nov 11, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I do hope cooler heads prevail
both between those doing the calling out and those in charge of the BANHAMMER. jtot and octa bring a lot of good to the blog (IMHO) and I will miss them. So hopefully we can all get past this horrible week in the coming days and weeks.
I understand both sides, their pissed because they feel like you belittled them and you’re pissed because they are directly calling you out. Everybody needs a time out, maybe some hooch, and a little valium thrown in. Just my $.02.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Asshole!
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Nov 13, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that literally NO ONE is making that argument
So I can only assume the the point of you making that statement is to dumb down and diminish the arguments of people who disagree with you.
The GJ statement is not a complete account of all testimony. It serves only to provide evidence to obtain an indictment. The fact that something was not in the report does not necessarily mean it didn’t happen. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t, but it is pure speculation to assume that Joe didn’t do any sort of follow-up.
According to the Second Mile, Curley told them that an employee was uncomfortable with seeing Sandusky in the locker room shower with a boy, but that an internal investigation revealed no wrongdoing. Furthermore, Joe has shown himself to be an exemplary human being over the past 84 years, while Curley is facing charges of perjury and failure to report.
So let me ask you this then. If we’re speculating, why are we so crazy for thinking that maybe, just maybe, it’s possible that Joe did follow-up, and that Curley lied and told him an investigation revealed no wrongdoing.
If so, then how can you view what Joe did negatively? At what point is Joe allowed to trust that the people above him are telling the truth and doing their job? I, for one, do not want this world to turn into a place where people assume that everything is a conspiracy or a cover-up. That is a dangerous precedent to set, and it would scare me even if this was someone else.
My point, as well as the point of many others, is not that Joe “washing his hands of things” would be ok.
My point is that it is wrong to crucify a man based purely on speculation
by ppfcpp on Nov 11, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
To this day I still can't stand Tom Osborne
But if Pelini and Scrap dressed like this for the game, I wouldn’t have a problem with it.

Everyone lost.
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Nov 11, 2011 9:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You only wish you could look that good
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Nov 11, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
that is straight corn pimping
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Blue Band
There needs to be lots and lots of Blue Band on Saturday. I’m fine with a couple Zombie Nations, and Hey Baby at the end of the 3rd, but that’s about it.
God help me if they play Sweet Caroline
Would be totally inappropriate.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well said.
All of it. The yelling needs to stop.
It’ll be surreal tomorrow.
Football is insignificant in the great scheme of life
But this weekend’s game win or lose can do a lot to start the healing.
Joe Posnaski
Hit it out of the park.
A lesson about the importance of the authority of the speaker: some dude that’s writing a book and for SI and admits to having read 30+ books and countless articles has credibility that’s hard to argue with.
You guys in your mom’s basement: easier to argue with; but I think Posnaski and Grovich have a lot in common in their viewpoints.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Honest and with integrity
By far the best and most honest article i’ve read to date. Hands down! He sold me a book.
#OccupyMomsBasement
___
Black Shoe Diaries
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 11, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I don't live in my mother's basement
Can I #OccupyShittyApartmentWithDraftyWindows?
Everyone lost.
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
As long as you can pay the rent.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
#OccupyESPN
How can you let your mother live in such a shitty apartment?
A pandemic of cowardice sweeps the nation.
by WorldBFat on Nov 11, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I got the lady a snuggie for Christmas a few years ago
But for my money, I’d rather have the Forever Lazy.

Why, you ask? Well, this.

The conclusions are yours to draw.
Everyone lost.
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Nov 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec
For bluntness and a much needed laugh
___
Black Shoe Diaries
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 11, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Ummmm, I'm afraid of what this is...ummm....what?
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
/slidewhistle
/AWOOOOOOOOGA
/elephant sounds
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN
Follow @134Lounge
Whose basement do you live in?
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
I'm excited for Saturday
I think with this game we can recapture a little sense of community and pride that we’ve lost this week. We have a lot of work to do as a university and the worse is not yet behind us; we need this game to reconnect and remember why we love this university so we can move forward and do some good.
Anyway, the flashlights eat our human power grids, our souls if you will. So i destroyed them, and if a few precious panties were burnt or soiled in the reckoning then so be it
by millzners on Nov 11, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
here here
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Old gambling adage: Bet on death; bet against distraction
This is unchartered territory, obviously…and frankly this is the biggest distraction anyone can remember in sports. But it’s also almost as if Joe Paterno has died.
I think the defense will kick ass and force turnovers. McGloin will make 3 great plays and 2 awful ones. Silas Redd scores a touchdown. The crowd convinces Urban Meyer to really think about PSU, though he won’t get/take the job in the end anyway.
Good guys: 23, Nebraska 20
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
What sponsors have dropped BSD?
It’s a shame. BSD has done a great job covering this, from multiple viewpoints. Chris has taken a clear non-homer position, and even though I disagree with some of the nuances, even most of the people who were for retaining Paterno have remained pretty civil. What gives here?
I want to know this as well.
I’m taking names. I simply have no use for moral spinelessness as a tool to attack moral spinelessness.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Yup
Liberty Mutual is on my list of companies I’ll never deal with now.
Formerly known as kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
by Kyle_Martin on Nov 11, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Final score not nearly enough
I said it at the very end of a post yesterday, one of these teams is going to win by 40 tomorrow, I have no idea which one though.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I really don't see us losing this one
The team is going to come out ANGRY.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 11, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I think it just depends on the start
As Chris mentioned, they probably have enough emotion to carry them through the first 10 minutes. If they can score early and keep the pressure on, I think PSU wins. If Nebraska scores first or has the momentum, then PSU struggles and Nebraska pulls away.
Since this happened, my feeling is that this team will either win the Big10 Championship or they will lose all 3 games. There is no other scenario. What happened is too emotional and unthinkable and I just see them using that emotion to win out, or they are just unfortunately too overwhelmed by it.
I've been saying this all along
This either sends the team on a win streak from here until next year, or they lose out. That’s my take. We’ll see I suppose.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
I don't necessarily see them losing out
but I can easily see them losing out after their first loss (for the rest of the season, obviously)
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 11, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think Jay should be on the sidelines
Somebody from offense has to be down there. I also think all the seats at the top of the stadium should have nets under them to help with carrier pidgeon catching.
Answering tough questions
I have been a State fan since the early 70’s. Was accepted but couldn’t attend because dad got laid off at the mill, so i joined the Navy instead. I never missed a game as a kid and I can still remember waiting outside the radio room on my ship ,while we were off the coast of Libya, hoping to hear the score of the PSU – Miami Fiesta Bowl game. Now I have two boys. Their rooms look like Penn State shrines. The oldest is enrolling next fall. The youngest is 14 and has more game jerseys than the team ! He is so depressed. For the first time he didn’t wear a game jersey to school on the day before a PSU game. Not worth the harassment from the Pitt lovers. I hate the way the media is covering this but as i told my boys, we brought a lot of this on ourselves. I think the BOT did what they had to do under very tough circumstances. More heads will roll before this is over. As for some of the students, they will have kids someday and they will have a little different outlook on what should have been done. Time will pass and Penn State will return to greatness. Of that i am sure. Go State !
"I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence." El Diablo
by UmustbLion on Nov 11, 2011 11:16 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
your kids, if you feel comfortable, should be a part of that
they are entering at the toughest of times there and they are part of a new generation of nittany lions. a completely post-paterno generation….but that does not lessen the university or what it stands for. joe was a valuable member of the community, but he was not the community.
we are penn state, you are penn state, and hopefully, your children will be penn state.
i was wondering how incoming students would feel, alongside their parents. thanks for posting.
let's go state
Totally comfortable
Wow, were u listening when I talked to my oldest boy ? I told him yesterday how he would be part of the incoming group that was going to see a lot of changes. I also told him that Joe was not the University, just one of it’s many faces. I work on Saturdays, so am only able to go to games once in a while when i can get tickets. One of my fondest memories is of a weekend when we all went up to my hunting cabin in Elk county for the weekend. After the truck was unloaded, I told the boys to get back in the truck because we were going to the zoo to see the lions. My boys looked at me like I was nuts. My wife pulled some Penn state shirts out a bag and I showed them the 4 tickets I had got for the Iowa game (back some years when Morrelli was QB). Their faces lit up !
"I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence." El Diablo
by UmustbLion on Nov 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wow, i got goose bumps reading that
too bad morrelli was the QB…haha, joke joke.
thank you for your support of the university as a whole. what a fascinating time to be an incoming frosh. it makes me feel warm inside to hear you are able to provide an experience for your kids that you yourself weren’t able to take advantage of.
and, most importantly, on veterans day…thank you
all the best to you and your family.
let's go state
Thanks for the thanks
We won that game but he was hideous ! Television couldn’t do justice to how much he could miss a wide open receiver by. I’m not usually a poster here, but i guess the reason I’m rambling and reminiscing is that thinking of the great memories that Penn State has given my family helps me. Seeing good people arguing about who should’ve called who and when is so sad to me. We should be coming together but it seems we are coming apart.
"I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence." El Diablo
it's a slow process
we will come together, it is taking time, but i have faith it will happen.
let's go state
good article on coming together
http://www.intelligentcollegefootball.com/archives/186/In-The-Darkness-Seeking-The-Light/
the end of this week has seen some of the best written work of this entire fiasco come to light. joepos yesterday, this article, a great sara ganim summary this am, a brilliant edsbs piece from a few minutes ago. i will post links if anyone cares enough…
let's go state
I can't see Bradley getting the job permanently.
I think he’s too close to Paterno for them to seriously consider it. Assuming they clean house in administration, I think they’ll clean house in the football program as well. Deserved or undeserved.
I agree
I think the world of Scrap but I’d be surprised if anyone is kept around.
"I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence." El Diablo
Hook'em Horns.
Penn State’s been my second team ever since I thought ‘Nittany’ was a shade of blue (early 80s, pre-internet era). Best of luck to you guys and I think you’ll be surprised how many neutrals are pulling for your classy team to show what Penn State’s all about this Saturday.
All I can say about Joe Pa is that it’s been a heartbreaking five days. Regardless, through their class and toughness, the team, tomorrow, next Saturday, and with the positive influence they will have on their respective communities post-graduation, will reflect very well on his tenure. Hook’em and God Bless!
by ColbyA on Nov 11, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Nice work on the summary Chris (minus the brainwashed comment)
It had to be really hard, but you seemed to capture pretty much everything about what’s going on and what’s going to happen. It made me laugh more than once, and even got me a little dusty when I watched the end of the Illinois game again – knowing my son and I were there to see Joe’s last game and remembering just how awesome we felt walking out of the stadium. It will definitely be wierd going back in tomorrow.
I donated to RAINN right after I read this. I woke up this morning thinking Penn Staters could – maybe even should – end up raising more money for the prevention of child abuse than the world has ever seen and I want to be a part of that.
Restore the Glory.
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
Now I know
For as long as I can remember, I’ve awoken on Fall Saturdays knowing one thing: I’ll watch and root for Penn State.
After last Saturday, and in the turmoil that followed and continues, I really didn’t know what I’d do this weekend. Would I even watch? If I did, could I root for them knowing what I know now? I thought Paterno should be gone, but once he was — and in the manner that it happened — it brough up just as many questions. Since he was the one consistent in all my Saturdays of rooting for Penn State, would I root for them without him? Could I effectively separate the team from the coach?
Now I know.
All it took was me crying at the clip of the Illinois game, and then feeling my chest swell with pride at watching Devon Still run off that field.
Devon Still never did any of this. None of the players did. But goddamn if I don’t hope they murder (everybody does) some people in white jerseys Saturday.
Beat Nebraska!
by tuscaloosalion on Nov 11, 2011 11:39 AM EST reply actions 12 recs
I'll B watchin
Tusca, I felt the same as you. I have a feeling watchin the plain unies pound Nebraska will be just the therapy i need to start the healing. In my mind i keep telling myself Joe was gonna be gone soon anyway.
"I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence." El Diablo
Devon Still had an 8 inch knife pulled on him in 2008 by Chris Bell
Some redhead assistant and others helped restrain Bell.
I had forgotten this, a bit of a non sequitor, but worth mentioning.
Washingtonian and heartbroken Penn Stater -- My blog features the triumph of hope over experience that is being a DC sports fan (especially the Nats) as well as the Nittany Lions, life in BeltwayLand and other things I find interesting. @doubleuefwhy
Wow
Chris Bell is not a very bright kid. An 8 inch knife cannot pierce the mountain that is Devon Still
Formerly known as kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
Also I think it was 2007 when this happened?
Not that it much matters
Formerly known as kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
Nice article about Scrap on espn.com
Always hoped he’d be Penn States’ head coach at some point. Just not like this.
I refuse to. I just can't stand ESPN right now
I look forward every week to gameday, even the watered down version on ESPNU that starts an hour earlier, but this week I am not turning it on. I’ll watch the game on mute too
I'm just like you
I haven’t turned on ESPN or been to ESPN.com. As far as I’m concerned, I’m done with that network. I’ll watch PSU if they are televised, but that’s it. And probably with the tv on mute.
My wife was watching ESPN news last night when I got home
I watched for like five minutes and made her switch the channel. It made me want to kick puppies.
by speedotito on Nov 11, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm never going to espn.com again
Unless on accident.
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
ESPN is for fantasy sports
and football on the weekends. I’ll not read another article written by their “journalists”
Formerly known as kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
by Kyle_Martin on Nov 11, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
McQueary's brave testimony
After reading the latest Penn Live story, one thing is clear, a lot of people did nothing. They either did the bare minimum or passed the buck. Unfortunately, that is very common in these types of situations.
I think it is a shame that McQueary was identified (by the press) and is taking so much heat. Yes, he did not act as well as you would hope. But, his response I think is very common in a situation like that (of course the media is all made of superheros with perfect morals, so they would have done more). I’m not sure how I feel about his inaction. However, he reported it to the right people. Maybe he should have done more after that, I don’t know.
What I do know is that he risked his reputation, his coach’s reputation, his bosses reputation and the schools reputation in order to finally do the right thing. It would be very easy to just say nothing and not stand as a witness. Him, Paterno, Schultz and Curley could easily choose to just act like he never saw anything. However, he went ahead and said what he had to, knowing full well that it would ruin him and everyone else. While you can argue it might be too little too late, do you think there would be a conviction without his testimony? I think it’d be iffy. With his testimony Sandusky will probably be found guilty.
I can’t figure out whether he’s good or bad in all of this. I do know that taking the stand the way he is is a very brave act. If we continue to bash witnesses for what they didn’t do, instead of what they are doing, how do you think that will make future witnesses feel? I am writing the Patriot-News to recommend that they fire whoever made the decision to print McQueary’s name. It just seems irresponsible. If we are going to punish the witnesses in the court of public opinion, why should they put themselves through the pain of reliving what surely was the worst day of his life?
I’m not saying what he did 10 years ago was okay, but what is happening now is very brave. I think we should all support him and commend him for taking the stand the way he did.
by psfann on Nov 11, 2011 12:13 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
this isn't a popular opinion
but it is a valid point. there is an excellent article in men’s health about the psychology of superiors and institutions, esp when it comes to males (http://goo.gl/C2UF6). it is worth a read b/c one of the things that kills me is that everyone knows how they would have acted in this situation but in reality, no one does.
this isn’t a penn state problem…this is a larger issues…there are estimates that as many as 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls are abused prior to the age of 18 but it isn’t something you hear about a lot b/c it is a very difficult crime to report. people are scared and ashamed and are already brutally scarred.
this is why that #PSUPrideforRAINN campaign is so important….awareness needs to be raised about this issue so that it is brought to light. everyone is concerned about cyber-stalking, which is easily traceable…but this old fashioned kind is much harder to expose and prove. we must channel this into a positive.
let's go state
by 424E. on Nov 11, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The Milgram experiment has been repeated many times in the years since, as recently as last year, and the results have been remarkably consistent: 60 to 65 percent of teachers obey the white-coated researcher till the bitter end.
I remember watching this in Psychology class. Before showing us the video, the teacher asked us how many would put another person’s life in danger if told to do so by an authority figure. When asked how many of us would protest, we all raised our hands. Unanimously.
He then said “You may think you know how you’d react, but…”
Then he showed us the video. It was haunting. The actor’s desperate shrieks reverberated in my mind for days. The guy administering the shocks could barely talk, because he felt so guilty. But he kept doing it. Apparently, so did 60-65 percent of the people in his situation.
\V/ for Villanova!
\V/ for Victory!
by dees ees en drama on Nov 11, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
My wife teaches this every semester. I never quite get my head around it.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I've been wanting to watch it again, but haven't found it until...well, now
It won’t be easy, but it is worth it.
\V/ for Villanova!
\V/ for Victory!
by dees ees en drama on Nov 11, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
this is so fucking enlightening
b/c every goddamn person out there thinks they know exactly how they would react. exactly! but in-fact, a minute percentage have been faced with this situation and can speak to it, while the rest have used this week to do endless moral grandstanding about how they would have reacted. like they are fucking jesus christ and 90% of the world outside of penn state is a shining example of moral authority.
it is disgustin the amount of times people have used child molestation as an excuse to puff out their own chest and say look at me, i am a fucking moral golden god, i would have killed sandusky on the spot….or, joe paterno is weak, i would have made sure i brought down sandusky within 48 hours of the first report.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE! STOP USING THIS AS A CHANCE TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR OWN MORAL SHORTCOMINGS!
sorry for the yelling, that wasn’t at you
let's go state
by 424E. on Nov 11, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
McQuery is not the first, or last, to walk away
How many people EVERY DAY do you think turn the other way? To sexual abuse, physical violence against children, children who are barely taken care of by parents who take good care of themselves at the expense of the children (have to have their booze and cigs).
If everyone spoke up all the time there would be no problem!
I am not ignoring the fact that what McQ saw was in no way subtle, but I would not want to be inside his head now.
Today is the day I died inside 11/9/11
I don't understand the rage toward McQ
He probably is/was afraid for his safety. The GJ report mentions Sandusky circling in the parking lot for hours, seemingly to threaten the janitors after they saw him. Its likely McQ was threatened too.
absolutely
I wonder how many people will be scared into remaining silent over the way McQueary is being treated.
I've been arguing this with people all day
“If we continue to bash witnesses for what they didn’t do, instead of what they are doing, how do you think that will make future witnesses feel?”
People bashing McQuery aren’t thinking it through and may be helping other child molestors get away with it by making death threats and the like against him.
With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln
by SarcasmJam on Nov 11, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
A lot of people are looking at one side of the equation
Scenario 1: If McQueary went on a rampage and did everything he could do to—tackled McQueary, beat him senseless, called the cops, called the kid’s mom, told Paterno…he’d be a hero.
Scenario 2: If he walked away and pretended he saw nothing, he’d probably convince himself that he really didn’t see what he thought he saw. He wouldn’t be a hero, but he’d still be a guy with a dream job on the Penn State sidelines.
Scenario 3: He fell somewhere in the middle, so he’s a coward and an enabler.
I think a lot of people think they are encouraging scenario 1 by cracking down on McQueary, and hopefully that’s the message people end up with. But people don’t realize that they could just as easily be encouraging Scenario #2—especially since a lot of people have probably been carrying secrets for years now.
Right now, a lot of people only have a choice between doing nothing and not doing enough. What the media should do a better job of is to encourage victims to step forward.
\V/ for Villanova!
\V/ for Victory!
by dees ees en drama on Nov 11, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
McQueary's biggest sin was not *eventually* going to the police.
I’m a bit sympathetic to him in all of this, as well. He saw Sandusky, who was likely a lifelong idol to a guy like McQ who grew up in State College, doing something horrific. There’s a lot of “If I Was There I Wouldda” sentiment that McQueary should gone late-80’s Van Damme and cleared the place out. I’m pretty sure that Sandusky didn’t continue assaulting the kid once McQueary bolted.
So he freaked and called his dad, the most important figure in his life. Then he gathered up his nerve and made the scariest phone call of his life, to the other Penn State God, Joe Paterno. Imagine making that phone call, then going to Joe’s house to describe the incident in graphic detail (and according to someone close to both him and me, that’s exactly what he did).
People keep focusing on the fact that McQueary was 28 at the time. That’s practically irrelevant to me. It was his position in this scenario that kept him from acting more forcefully. He was basically a coaching intern, a graduate assistant. He wanted this to be his career. The guy was put in an awful place. He didn’t do everything he could either, but if anyone in the “never called the cops” group approached the “did the most he could do” threshold in this whole thing, I say it was him.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty much in agreement with you
I’m torn because I’m outraged like everyone else about the whole situation, and I have thought a lot about what Mike did and how I would’ve reacted. I hope that if I was ever placed in a “do the right thing” situation as serious as that, that I would make the right decision, but it’s hard for me to come down hard on him for his initial reaction of leaving the locker room. I do understand that getting the child out of there and/or stopping what was going on would have been the best thing to do. I just can’t imagine even witnessing something like that and how I would react initially. I’m 36 years old and my parents are my best friends and I speak to them almost every day. I would imagine that I would call them, if not initially, very soon after to get their advice in a situation I would have never been in before in my life. I agree with you that if it didn’t occur immediately, calling the police was definitely a necessary part of the process, and that where his fault comes into play in my mind.
by mundyscorner99 on Nov 11, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really understand all of the McQueary hate
I don’t know why I find myself sticking up for him so much. I don’t know him, but I’ve generally heard he is a good guy. I assume he feels awful that he didn’t do more to help the kid at the time, and he probably is scarred for life. However, I do believe that running away from that situation is probably a more common reaction than people want to acknowledge. Not particularly brave, but I wouldn’t call it cowardly either.
I agree his biggest fault, like Paterno’s (from what we know), is not doing more. I’m not even ready to be too hard on him at this point for that, until I hear more.
I guess I’m just still hoping that it will come out that both Paterno and McQueary did follow up, and were told by Curley or Shultz something like “yeah, we talked to Sandusky, the kid and the kid’s mom. The kid says nothing happened and the Mom doesn’t want us to press charges. We think Sandusky is a creep and we aren’t going to let him bring kids around anymore. We told the people at Second Mile of the allegations, so hopefully they’ll follow up as well.” That’s my fantasy, anyway, unlikely as it may be.
I mentioned this further up (I'm still reading through)
McQueary was one of the assistants who restrained a knife wielding Chris Bell in 2008.
I had forgotten about that incident and thought it was worth bringing up. It did not change anything from 2002 of course.
Washingtonian and heartbroken Penn Stater -- My blog features the triumph of hope over experience that is being a DC sports fan (especially the Nats) as well as the Nittany Lions, life in BeltwayLand and other things I find interesting. @doubleuefwhy
how did he do more than JoePa?
Answer that, and then answer how you sympathize with him, but not JoePa?
by The JuggerNitt on Nov 12, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Besides the RAINN mention
worst game preview ever.
Defense comes out strong. Offense does enough.
17- 10 Penn State.
We are not normal...WE are Legends...We are PENN STATE!
by hawaiipennstatefan on Nov 11, 2011 12:59 PM EST reply actions
ben jones reports:
From the sounds of it Tom Bradley isn’t holding back in practice.
can you imagine that locker room tomorrow at 11:50? I am pretty sure i could be inspired to make 15 tackles and i am more fit to play 40 sports before football
let's go state
and again from mr. jones...
Tom Bradley will ride on the second bus to the stadium per tradition. Paterno’s seat on the first bus will go unoccupied.
this is why i have faith in scrap
let's go state
by 424E. on Nov 11, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Kudos to whoever thought that up.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Nov 11, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Everything I hear from and about him during this week has made me confident that he is the right man for this job.
Certainly for this season, maybe for the future.
by VVeRPennState on Nov 11, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I got chills all over reading that
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Brainwashed
I do not appreciate the brainwashed comment. I thought our country as a whole was better then this. People’s rush to judgment is extremely troubling. We used to pride ourselves on due process. That’s what set us apart. Clearly it no longer exists. I have been called an ahole and a supporter of child molestation for saying wait for the facts and maybe you shouldn’t call him “joe ped” at this point in time. Troubling.
by Btd121 on Nov 11, 2011 1:41 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, it's a very dangerous word to use.
I think the whole discourse on this case may do more harm than good to the issue of reporting child abuse. I have reported it before, to my boss, who directed me to someone who handled investigating charges in our organization. If she failed to do her job (which she didn’t thank God), I could now be publicly ridiculed and marked as an enabler if this person were to go somewhere else at a later time and continue the abuse. I understand we are all angry that “more” wasn’t done, myself included, but it’s a terrible thing to do to witnesses of these crimes or people that report it to their superiors to hang them up by their toes for this. It can’t see what comes out of that productively.
People forget how strong their words can be when they have a louder voice than the rest, and anger speech isn’t going to encourage change.
by mleepsu08 on Nov 11, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
great point
everyone talks about the real victims here but lets not forget that there are other victims of this kind of abuse out there. if we as a society make it harder for people to report their attackers, this will have done no good.
let's go state
Amen to the rush to judgement part.
This isn’t an indictment of Chris. I haven’t agreed with everything he wrote in the last week, I’ve abstained from attacking him, and have only negatively responded to one thing he wrote in the past week.
But the rush to judgement phenomenon (again, Chris, this is not directed at you) really pisses me off. I cringed when somebody tweeted something this week about Nancy Grace being eliminated from Dancing with the Star this week. My initial reaction was, fuck. She’ll be in State College tomorrow, espousing her ridiculous nonsense.
If the “mainstream” media has bungled this as badly as Penn State has, imagine what happens when the sensationalist swine like Nancy Grace show up.
Full disclosure here, I actually am a journalist. This has been a rough week for me. I am ashamed of my school AND my chosen profession. But again, I’m not a victim here so my trivial troubles are insignificant.
Look, I get it. I know Joe needed to go. I don’t like it. But even if it comes out that Joe actually did more, there’s no way even he could have survived this … this travesty of unspeakable magnitude. But the media’s response this week was pitiful and smacked of shamelessly generating TV ratings and page views (not talking about BSD or Chris here, either). ESPN, Yahoo, hell even CNN have had reporters go so far past the libel line, it’s criminal. And they seemingly get a free pass.
My only criticism of Chris is that “brainwashed” was probably too harsh of a term given the state of everyone’s emotions. It’s unfair, incendiary and there’s no way that comment would not spark some visceral reactions. What’s more is that it’s unnecessary. But that knife cuts both ways. Chris’ comments have been attacked just as vociferously, and at times, just as unfairly.
Ben just tweeted that the BOT apparently contacted Mike London at UVA about the head coaching position
before they gave it to Bradley. And he turned them down. I guess I was a little hopeful going into the offseason about Meyer or a successful guy coming here, but if that was their first option??? Yikes…I’ve lost hope that this will go well.
he's solid
did a great job w/his first full recruiting class and has them at 6-3 this year
if he sticks around, that series coming up in a few years will be a solid one
let's go state
Unrelated but good to hear
I tweeted Ian (drum major) earlier and Rock and Roll Part II is out.
Today is the day I died inside 11/9/11
what is the beef
with rock and roll part II? i’ve always been confused by this, do many people just think it’s an overplayed anthem that has no part w/ psu because it’s not related to the actual university or is there something else i am missing?
i personally get goosebumps when the band starts it and people start humming the notes and how we get the whole stadium together on the three letters we represent…but that may be just me….not accusing anyone or saying they should love it, just interested for the different takes on it as i have seen people voice displeasure with it
Because Gary Glitter was a pederast.
They never should have used that song in the first place. I’ve been uncomfortable with it since the beginning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter#Child_pornography_arrest_and_conviction
by Chris Grovich on Nov 11, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
in addition to being a creep
the creep makes money every time the song is played
Today is the day I died inside 11/9/11
So the infighting at BSD has begun in earnest
I really hope this is the last step this community needs to take before we can move on.
ahh
i did not know that…..now reason to not enjoy one of my favorite psu pump ups….i will replace it by singing the alma mater in my man cave right before kick off rather than the rock and roll……
any word on what it will be replaced with?
on another note
don’t let espn get ahold of that info on gary glitter…surely they WOULD turn it into psu playing that song for years to “blatantly show” their support of child abuse or something to that affect….that’s their “journalism”
Okay, here goes...
I am relatively new to the SBNation series of blogs and I’ve been slowly collecting my favorite teams: Maryland (I’m an alum), Orioles, Broncos, and now Penn State. It’s been a brutal week for the community and I came here to see how the community was handling it. However, I wasn’t able to contribute because of the extended waiting period (certainly understandable). What I did do was put together my thoughts about Penn State over at a news aggregate website I participate at. I’ve taken quite the beating over there for expressing my opinions, but such is life when you express an opinion online. I apologize for the length of this, but here goes…
Why Penn State
I am not a Penn State graduate or student. I am an alumnus of the University of Maryland. I find it hard to fully comprehend what current Penn State students are going through.
However, I grew up Penn State. My father is a Penn State graduate. During Falls growing up, we would drive up for a weekend of Penn State football. We’d arrive on Friday night and sleep in the truck in the parking lot. On Saturday, we’d walk into town and enjoy the festivities. Sometimes we would buy tickets to the game, sometimes we’d just hang out in the parking lot and tailgate. After the game, we’d go to a women’s volleyball match, then back to sleep in the truck for the night (always wished for an RV). On Sunday, we would drive out to a park where my dad played football with friends, then head home.
And so, I grew up Penn State. I watched the games on television. I read about the team in newspapers and online. Even without attending the school, it was a family thing for me.
The News
When I heard about the allegations, I was appalled. Any human being would be, especially after reading the grand jury report. It’s even more astounding that, of all schools, this would happen at Penn State. I would have been less shocked if the report was about Maryland.
There is so much that happens in the world that is horrible. Famine is affecting millions in Africa and North Korea. Children are being used as bomb delivery devices and human shields in the Middle East. Children are being trafficked for sex in every nation in the world, including the United States. Gangs kidnap children and seniors in China, maim them, and force them to beg on the street. It is a horrible world.
Yet, it is somehow still “over there”. Even the things that we know are wrong in the United States are often just statistics. Prince George’s County, Maryland had a crime wave at the start of 2011 resulting in a dozen murders in a dozen days. Of course, the victims and their friends, family, and coworkers are affected. Nothing ever affects a person as much as being the victim of a horrible crime. But, for our own psychological health, we almost have to build a wall around our hearts and our minds to the massive suffering shown in the statistics.
One day, you see it. Horrible events happened in a building you have walked past. It’s possible that you were just a couple hundred yards away when those horrible things happened. It’s a feeling in the pit of your stomach that you just can’t even put words to.
What Would You Do?
The event that defines this scandal occurred in 2002. Ironically, tragically, and stupidly, the failures of 1998 are being almost completely ignored. I will put that aside for now. But imagine you walk into that horrible scene in 2002. What do you do?
An endless line of internet and media cowboys have jumped all over themselves to proclaim that they would have beat the perpetrator (who I will not even name here, because I simply feel ill every time I write those letters). They would have pounded the perpetrator, they yell at the top of their lungs. It is impossible to not step in.
I think that we all want to feel that way. But it isn’t true.
I work for a company that does statistical research for the federal government. One of the studies which I have done some work on is the National Crime Victimization Survey. Now, I am very far down and do “grunt” work on the study. I have no access to data that is not publicly available. I am not a statistician. I work very far down on the survey preparation side of this study. I do not in any way claim to be an expert. However, working with this survey has encouraged me to look at the Penn State issue from a different perspective.
The US Department of Health and Human Services reported 83,600 substantiated reports of sexually abused children in 2005.144145 Including incidents which were not reported would make the total number even larger.146
Here’s what we know:
The number of minors who are sexually abused every year is staggering.
The number of sexual abuse incidents which are not reported is staggering and greater than zero.
If the response to Penn State is to be believed, the rate of people who would have stepped in and interrupted that crime in 2002 is 100%. Yet, we know from the statistics that is not the case. If the response to Penn State is to be believed, the rate of people who would have run to the police and pounded on the desk until the perpetrator was arrested is 100%. Yet, we know from the statistics that is not the case… not even close.
There is a very, very vocal group right now declaring multiple people morally reprehensible for responding… exactly how millions of Americans have responded to similar incidents. Serial sexual abuse, such as what the perpetrator at Penn State is alleged to have engaged in, does not occur in a vacuum. There are not signs witnessed by one person, as the Penn State case clearly shows. For every single incident, there are multiple people that could have raised questions. In serial sexual abuse situations, it is rare that there are not dozens of people who will, with hindsight, say that they thought something was off with the situation or that there were isolated signs that they overlooked.
It is extremely easy to type out the words, sit in front of a television camera, or say at the water cooler how courageous one would be if witnessing a terrible crime or becoming aware of a terrible crime. The statistics show that actually responding isn’t that easy.
Influences on Response to a Traumatic Event
Why do people respond the way they do? The factors are infinite.
There are absolutely people who do not respond to or do not report an incident because of criminal or malevolent intentions. The athletic director and another administration official appear to have made a conscious decision to place the public relations of the university above the safety of children. In these instances, prosecutors should attempt to present evidence of such a decision to a jury and seek a conviction.
There are instances where the witness is a victim him or herself. A parent may witness his or her child being abused, or become aware of it, but be unable to act because the perpetrator is victimizing the witness physically or mentally.
Witnesses can be affected by post-traumatic stress disorder. While typically associated with the physical and psychological trauma of war, victims of terrible crimes and witnesses can also be subjected to this. What’s important is that PTSD will alter the way the afflicted person responds to stimuli. An example of this is on display in the West Wing episode “Noël”. Josh Lyman, shot by an assassin the previous year, responds to the sound of music by mentally reliving his shooting. I am not a psychology expert. I am simply putting forward the idea that PTSD can result from witnessing a traumatic situation and can alter the way a person responds to that situation or even in the future.
Witnesses and those who learn of horrible events may enter a state of denial. While we typically see this represented at Newsvine in political debates, denial is a psychological condition and that comes with a variety of significant and serious alterations to normal behavior.
There are many more influences. I am not an expert. I am simply trying to demonstrate that what in hindsight appears completely indefensible may have, at the time, been the only response possible for witnesses or those aware of a situation. I do not know if any of these apply to every person involved in the Penn State situation. I do not know what other possible influences existed. I strongly suspect that some of those influences and motivations will become known as the trial of the perpetrator moves forward and as the emotion of the revelations gives way to the analysis of what happened, when it happened, and why.
“I wish I could have done more.”
This statement was made by Jim Palmer during the pregame show of the first Baltimore Orioles game after the suicide of his colleague and friend, Mike Flanagan. This statement is the response that I had after my roommate’s girlfriend committed suicide in June of this past summer. This is the response that all caring people have when we learn of a victim of a crime who we personally knew.
As I touched on above, hindsight is important. We judge all past events through hindsight. We assume hindsight is perfect, but it also isn’t. There is much known about what happened at Penn State, via the grand jury report, but there is more to be learned as well. It is entirely possible that what is left to be learned will absolutely validate the harshest critics of Paterno, McQueary, and others involved. It is also possible that what is left to be learned will shed some light on what the motivations for certain responses were.
As of now, Coach Paterno is the only person to in any way state that he believes he made a mistake. I think that some of that is tied into that human response to a traumatic situation. I think that some of that is that Paterno knows that if he knew then what he knows now, he absolutely would have worked harder to ensure that no more children were harmed by the predator. I think that it says a lot about Paterno’s character that he has stepped up and admitted a mistake.
And therein lies the question: what is the appropriate response to a mistake? As has been repeatedly stated (and contrary to Sports Illustrated’s slanderous front-page article, more below), law enforcement officials have cleared Paterno of any legal concerns. There are ethical and moral concerns. Should these be judged based on hindsight? Should these be judged based on internet cowboyism? Should these be judged based on the events at the time? Ethics and morals are personal and will be judged based on each individual’s own criteria.
I, for one, have not yet seen any evidence that McQueary or Paterno acted with malice. I have seen evidence that a horrible situation occurred and these men made a mistake. As a result of that mistake, further horrible actions occurred. These men will have to live with that, forever. This brings me to…
Public Reaction
I am appalled at the reaction of the news media to Penn State.
ESPN is running a completely unprofessional campaign to slander Joe Paterno and is attempting to use its clout to have him removed. I watched an hour of SportsCenter tonight and it was infuriating. If one only watched ESPN’s coverage, one would think that Paterno himself had committed the crimes. Every comment allowed on air was editorial in nature and devoted to the sole purpose of demanding Paterno never coach again. There was no sports journalism or news reporting; there was only a clear and inappropriate agenda.
Sports Illustrated has been just as bad. All day yesterday, the front page of their website was an editorial entitled “Paterno Must Go Now”. Today, there has been an article on their front page stating that Paterno may still face legal consequences, which the state’s attorney has unequivocally ruled out.
There has been absolutely no attempt to report the facts of the situation. There has been every attempt to sensationalize and bastardize the coverage.
For example, much has been made of the grand jury investigation and report. This is an important document. It does not, however, close the book on the case. A grand jury is not a fully trial. It determines whether a criminal indictment will be issued. The evidence to be presented in the perpetrator’s trial, including testimony, will dwarf the 25 pages of the grand jury report. I haven’t seen a single media source discuss exactly what the role of a grand jury is in the process. It has been presented as the sum total of all possible evidence.
This article at Black Shoe Diaries conveys the media situation better than I ever could. I encourage you to read it to get a true understand of just how disgusting the media coverage of Penn State has been.
Conclusion
I am obviously upset that this issue even exists. It’s horrible and no child should ever be subjected to what happened.
The administration at Penn State failed in ensuring that information got to appropriate officials.
I do not fault McQueary or Paterno. Both reported what they knew to a superior and I believe that was appropriate. Yes, either one could have called the police themselves (although in 1998, that didn’t exactly do any good). As above, I need more information before I determine for myself whether I find fault with them on a moral level.
ESPN and Sports Illustrated are two of the largest and most popular sports media sources in the United States. Both have failed, horrendously, at covering this story. Both should be completely and utterly embarrassed at the product they have produced over the past five days.
by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 11, 2011 3:19 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Holy crikey...
That was a lot longer looking than I even expected.
The only reason I didn’t post the link is that I prefer for my SBNation and that other account to not be associated, as one account as more personal information out there than the other.
by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 11, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for taking the time to post this.
I really appreciate reading your level headed approach. The nature of these crimes has invoked so much anger, rightfully so. But people need to be honest with themselves about the situation certain people were put in. I hope you or I are never in that situation. Or anyone for that matter.
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Well written, good sir
While I won’t say I’m an expert in psychology (my Masters in Counseling only gets me so far), I can write a little more about the PTSD portion you mentioned. It was an issue covered in a few of my classes, and I did have to write a group paper on PTSD in children (I had the joy of doing the research on symptoms children experience with PTSD).
PTSD can occur just by witnessing an event – witnessing a death first-hand, for instance. While it may not be a fully diagnosable case of PTSD (which might be more of an indictment of the DSM, but that’s a totally different discussion), there is a serious chance that McQueary experienced some PTSD after just witnessing the act. While many people have discussed how they “would” react when put in a similar situation, few have discussed how they might feel following that experience. I’m sure many people would have to deal with horrific memories/dreams of just seeing that act – one of the signs of PTSD.
More importantly, one of the effects of PTSD is an “amnesia” towards some of the events that occurred or were seen. Because of the emotional impact, the brain tries to forget certain details of the event that occurred, which then makes it even harder to properly put together the full picture again. That’s not to say McQueary did or didn’t really see something, but that he may have experienced this type of amnesia at certain times of the recanting of his story. All speculation, but based on what we know about PTSD, it’s not out of the question.
I have tried to remain quiet during much of what has unfolded over the past week. I have gone through the range of emotions, but I have tried to use these events as an opportunity to understand more about myself, my reactions, others’ and their reactions, and the world around me as a whole. At this point, I think it is important for all of us to start to learn about these situations – what really happens in these child abuse/rape cases, what resources we can use to help these children, and what we can do to keep these things from happening again. As a society, focusing on blame and excuses will only ensure that these horrible acts will continue to occur around the world. Learning, and acting on what we learn, is vital.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
#OccupyESPN
At this point, I think it is important for all of us to start to learn about these situations – what really happens in these child abuse/rape cases, what resources we can use to help these children, and what we can do to keep these things from happening again.
One of the major things my company does is conduct surveys, such as NCVS, to try and ensure that the information needed about issues is getting out there. It’s a little scratch on the surface, but I’d like to think that it helps policy makers do their jobs better.
Thank you for your more detailed explanation of PTSD as it may pertain to this situation.
by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 11, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome. And thank you.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Spartan here
Just wanted you guys to know I feel for ya’. I have always believed that PSU has the most knowledgable football fans in the Big Ten, and possibly the most passionate. Nobody in the alumini or fan base deserves what some degerates and outright fools associated in and with your proud program have done. It’s gonna take a long while, and the next few years will be extrodinarilly tough. But I have no doubt you will be back. YOU ARE…..PENN STATE.
Now kick the shit outta Nebraska for both of our universities, will ya’?!?
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
by Honeyman on Nov 11, 2011 3:59 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
thank you all
not sure if i will be here tomorrow, but i will be watching and cheering my eyes out.
i did want to say thank you to the community here for helping myself get through this last week. this community has been invaluable in helping me cope with this shock to our beliefs.
despite the infighting, name-calling, and random trolls, it has been incredibly helpful to surround myself with penn staters.
thank you all
#fortheglory
let's go state
From a friend, current grad student, via Twitter
A Nebraska fan just bought the bar a round of shots. So classy.
See Nebraska. We’re good people. We’ve been good hosts all season long (many Bama, Iowa, and Purdue fans have attested to that). And we just want to get back to normalcy. Glad to see the Nebraska fans are obliging and helping us recover (with alcohol).
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
#OccupyESPN
by IcersGuy on Nov 11, 2011 5:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Damn Cornhuskers...
Ruining the hatred that I have cultivated for them since 1994 by being really f-ing good people.
by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 11, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brainwashing?
Seriously? I would be laughed out of any informed academic discussion were I to start tossing this term around. There has been no support for this concept among sober scholars for 30 years. I might just as well stake out a claim for a Ptolemaic model of the solar system.
RUTS, you’re making a mistake here, one I believe you’ll come to regret. You’re knocking off good voices here precisely at the moment when a conversation like this is ready to turn. Folks have gotten their feelings out in the open, a necessary precondition for reconciliation. This is a damn opportunity to build an even more vibrant and cohesive community. Don’t let it pass. The other path leads in the direction of disease and sorrow. To paraphrase Dutch Reagan, this is a time for choosing.
Everyone needs to grab a copy of John Stewart Mill’s On Liberty and investigate his thoughts on free speech. He articulates my position. Speech must be fully wide open if we are to have any hope of advancing a robust and just culture. Often the more difficult contests are the most heuristic – conflict is good. It is only through a sharp and rigorously explored dialectic that knowledge is sharpened, wisdom gained.
Of course part of the problem here is that we have come to think of places like this as public space. It is not, and the sad fact is that there is very little truly public space left in America. Stake it out and be brave. Short term difficulty will yield long term strength.
And God or whatever one believes in knows we need strength.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Nov 12, 2011 10:00 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Stuart damnit...
And I know better — Stuart of Bute has always been my mnemonic device on this.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

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