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PSU Trustees Caved To Media Frenzy

 

The Penn State Trustees are cowards. How hard would it have been to call in Joe Paterno--a man who dedicated himself to PSU for over 60 years--and ask him to explain? The Trustees did not take this simple step because they were crushed by the media (and public) blitz of righteous, ignorant, indignation.  

 

In the days leading up to and after PSU Head Coach Joe Paterno's termination, virtually every journalist I read or listened to proclaimed his or her certainty of Paterno's gross dereliction of duty and--in most cases--called for his termination. Here's just a sample. There are many more:

  • Andy Staples of SI, likely seeing his first ever opportunity to be a tough guy, wrote a scathing article titled: "With no explanation for inaction, Joe Paterno must go now." He wrote that at 12:46 pm on November 8, perhaps coincidentally right after Paterno's opportunity for explanation--at least to the press--had been revoked by PSU.
  • Michael Rosenberg of SI castigated Paterno in an article titled "Joe Paterno, Penn State failed miserably in sad Sandusky case."
  • Mark Schlabach of ESPN.com wrote "Paterno was fired because he failed miserably while making the biggest decision of his life."
  • Scott Ostler of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote "Penn State's Joe Paterno gets what he deserved."
  • Jemele Hill of ESPN.com wrote "Paterno should never have been allowed to coach another game."
  • Bill Plaschke of the LA Times concluded that "For the sake of a university whose continued association with him would damage its success and stain its honor, if Joe Paterno doesn't quit, they should fire him."

Stewart Mandel of SI was one of few who sympathized with Paterno, but even he wrote "No question, Paterno should be held accountable for his inaction in the Sandusky saga."

 

On what facts do these wannabes base their damning judgments? The only credible information accessible to the public is contained in the grand jury presentment. It reveals without question the following: that Sandusky is a serial child rapist; that in 2002 Mike McQueary witnessed Sandusky performing inappropriate, perhaps sexual, acts on a child in the PSU locker room; that the next day McQueary informed Paterno at Paterno's home that Sandusky had performed inappropriate, perhaps sexual, acts on a child; that the next day, Paterno called PSU Athletic Director Tim Curley to his home and relayed some form of the information that McQueary had relayed to Paterno; and that, at a later date, PSU VP Gary Schultz (head of campus police) was called to a meeting with Paterno and Curley where Paterno relayed some form of the information that McQueary had relayed to Paterno. Those vague pieces of information are the only mentions of Paterno in the grand jury presentment--approximately 8 lines in a 23 page document.

 

A short lesson in the law: A grand jury presentment is a report (not a transcript of testimony) written by the government based on sworn testimony and other evidence procured by the government. In other words, it is the government's interpretation of the evidence that the government gathered to obtain the indictment. For example, during the grand jury proceedings, Paterno and McQueary were likely questioned by the government--not their own counsel. We've all seen Law & Order. Imagine Jack McCoy questioning Paterno and McQueary. A prosecutor frames his or her questions so as to obtain the information necessary for an indictment.  

 

In short, a grand jury presentment tells only one side of the story. 

 

On what facts did the PSU Board of Trustees rely to become so thoroughly informed of Paterno's role in the scandal such that he must be fired? They read the grand jury presentment. That's it. Eight lines of a biased, government document. Vice Chair of the Board, John Surma, said this, among other things, at his press conference: "We do not know anything more about the actual details than the grand jury report." Amazingly, he also said: "We do not yet know all of the facts and there are many details that have yet to be worked out." He should have just said: "The Board looks forward to learning why we fired Joe Paterno, or whether we really screwed up.”

 

What didn't the Board do? They didn't read a grand jury transcript (probably hundreds of pages of sworn testimony from, among others, Paterno); they didn't meet with Paterno; they didn't meet with McQueary; and, I can assume they didn't meet with Curley or Shultz (based on Surma's statement that they relied only on the grand jury report).

 

While being chased down by a shocked and frenzied public led by a contemptuous media, the PSU Trustees leapt right over due process, or any process. For that, they are cowards.

 

What should the Board have done? I agree the sight of Paterno on the sideline Saturday against Nebraska would have been terribly awkward, even offensive. So, the Trustees should have suspended Paterno pending an investigation that would consist of, at the very least, separate meetings with Paterno and McQueary. The investigation, if intense, could be fruitful and completed in a week. If a proper investigation revealed that Paterno was informed that a sex act had been performed on a child and he covered it up or ignored it, then Paterno would be fairly terminated at that time.

 

But, what if Paterno wasn't the sinister monster or negligent bystander he is condemned to be? What if Paterno followed up with Curley or Schultz and they told him, "Don't worry about it, we took care of it." What if Paterno had no authority over Sandusky in 2002, because Sandusky was retired, and not a coach on Paterno's staff? What if Curley and Schultz had sole jurisdiction over Sandusky at that time? After all, Sandusky was listed as a professor emeritus--not a coach emeritus. What if Paterno never saw Sandusky roaming the halls of PSU so as to have an opportunity to confront him? What if Paterno hated Sandusky and took comfort in knowing Curley had investigated the issue? What if McQueary in fact told Paterno that Sandusky was merely "horsing around?" Also consider that for the last 10 years many have assumed Paterno was merely a figure head. Now, he's responsible for everything? There are so many unanswered questions, more than these, and the Board admitted it. Cowards.

 

The termination of Joe Paterno is a product of our society's lazy lust for swift judgment--and I'm not referring to legal judgment. We all know that takes too long. Rather, I'm referring to the rush for answers that naturally results from the opportunism, arrogance, and righteousness that run rampant in our culture, especially the media. And because this is a child molestation case, the righteousness becomes an unstoppable force. No one wants to be the guy who says "Wait, let's get the facts" when a child has been abused. People will remind you to "think about the kids" or worse, accuse you of defending the child molester. The media, many people I know, and the PSU Board didn't want to wait. Way too risky. They all wanted to be the hero and tell everyone how bad they feel. There's not enough time for the facts when we have some serious hand ringing to do.

 

Perhaps in time we will learn that Joe Paterno deserved his fate. If so, no harm no foul (although the process of his firing will always be a farce). On the other hand, what if we learn that Paterno was far less culpable than the media says he is--or not culpable at all? Then, we have just witnessed a travesty of justice that could have been easily avoided. Someone in the Board meeting simply needed to stand up and say: "Wait, let's get the facts." But, they were all cowards.

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Well said, DWHerbe.

As noted, let’s let the process unfold. The rush to judgment against Joe Paterno helped no one but the Board, and as one of their attorneys noted, may have harmed the victims.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 13, 2011 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks

I wrote this the night after Paterno was fired and tried to publish it at Huffington Post, Deadspin, Yahoo, and others. Strangely, no one picked it up.

by Dwherbe on Nov 13, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that strange. Didn't fit the narrative of righteous indignation.

But this was fantastic. Much appreciated.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 13, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice, congratulations!

can you find a link. I’m looking around on the site, but haven’t found it.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 14, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how I feel about the Schultz references.

On one hand he is the VP that oversees the University Police, and seems like the go to guy for something like this, but is he actually the right guy? Does he normally get involved in these types of situations?

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 13, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Who knows?

Maybe? That’s why the Trustees should have taken some time to sort it all out.

by Dwherbe on Nov 13, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd because this is a great point

For all the people who claim everyone had to know, Schultz is the only one who has admitted to knowing about the 98 events. That’s a very important detail.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying he should have done more

I’m just questioning if he was the appropriate person to bring it to in the whole chain of things. People keep saying how he is essentially the head of the university police, but does he actually have any say in the day to day running? (and more importantly, is this the guy you go to to investigate a case, or is this the guy you would go to if you want to find a way to have it not investigated?)

I’m not trying to say that going to him was part of a coverup, just whether he actually had any authority in the matter. If at best he says, “yeah, this should be investigated, let’s go to the police,” then what beneficial purpose does he actually play in this whole chain of events? If he routinely is involved in these types of situations then yes, it makes sense to go to him, but I haven’t heard one way or the other if that is actually the case.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 14, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he would be

routinely involved due to his position. Anything that would be more than routine, day-to-day stuff would be brought to him. He would also be the one to inform the President (Spanier) of the incedent(s).

by BluKoolAide on Nov 14, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

yes he would be, or yes he is?

Because again, there is a difference. Mainly I want to know if in previous legal issues JoePa and co went to Schultz and that started the legal process against whomever. If THAT can be shown, then it is very reasonable to assume JoePa expected this to be the appropriate course of action.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 14, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Here's a stupid question

If nobody told the police, how did the AG get wind of it?

by TonyLion on Nov 14, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I took it that they subpoenaed anybody with any connection to Sandusky

Paterno’s testimony would have led them to subpoena McQueary.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 14, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Subpoena'd whatever records Penn State had about the 2002 thing

likely saw the order that he couldn’t have kids on campus and asked around.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 14, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still not sure what to make of him being head of campus police

When this was first reported, I assumed that MM went to Schultz because he was head of campus police. However, upon hearing more about his position, I’m thinking that he may only really be the head as far as finances go. On the other hand, I’m having trouble thinking of another reason why they would involve him unless they saw him as the head of police.

I think it would be really interesting to hear from MM, Curley or Joe what the reasoning was for bringing in Schultz.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure he could give them orders if he wanted to

But does he? Is that something he normally does? There are a lot of high level VPs at my company, and any one of them could come to my desk and ask me to do something, and I’d have to do it. But that doesn’t mean contacting them is the proper method of informing me of a task.

I guess what I’m trying to establish is, did they contact the guy whose job it was to get the police involved, or just a guy who could have theoretically done so.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

When you're the Senior VP under whose authority Police Services falls...

you are the person that people who know you personally, and know what you do, are going to come see. As has been stated many times, he may not have had the title of Police Commissioner, but that was one of his job functions.

If you are on a first-name basis with the Police Commissioner and you hear about somebody witnessing a crime, are you going to call 911 and be told that you have to get the witness to report the crime? No, you go straight to the person who is in the best position to get the situation the full attention of the police department as quickly as possible.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 13, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I'm trying to figure out though

If commissioner is really an appropriate comparison. My initial thoughts were yes, but since then I’m questioning it. From what I’ve read, Schultz seems to be portrayed as a finance guy, making me wonder if a better comparison would be treasurer of the police department.

If someone can (or has) confirmed for sure that Schultz job was akin to commissioner then I agree, I’m just not so sure that is the case yet.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Considering the litany of job functions attributed to Schultz...

City Manager might be more accurate. Either way, he should have been the fastest way to get the full and undivided attention of Police Services.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 13, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

interestingly enough, I just found this

http://www.fandb.psu.edu/fandb/strategicplan/upload/F-B-Strategic-Plan.pdf

According to page 42, the director of university police is Steve Shelow, who reports directly to Schultz. While Shelow would seem like a better person to contact, I think that org chart is enough to convince me that everyone else involved did think they were getting the police involved.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Interesting...

That almost looks like Shelow is actually wearing a police uniform in the org chart picture. If so, was the the de facto chief with the title of ‘director’?

Like a lot of us have been saying, though – regardless of the semantics of titles, Gary Schultz’ picture is still at the top of that page.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 13, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I get that and I'm not disagreeing

I’m simply curious as to whether or not Joe and MM made the connection that telling Schultz = involving the police.

There are other reasons they may have gone to him. Maybe they went to him as the head of HR. Maybe he was just the next level up between Curley and Spanier. Or maybe there’s so other connection we don’t know about.

As long as I’m trying to tell people to not speculate as to negative things about Joe, I have to follow my own advice too. While it’s possible (even logical) that they did involve Schultz because he was head of police, I’m still not entirely sure of that fact.

None of this changes the fact that Schultz could have and SHOULD have gotten the University Police involved and that it was well within his authority to do so. I’m only trying to determine if that was enough for MM and Joe to assume the police had been involved.

by ppfcpp on Nov 13, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly what I'm coming at, too.

If, as you say, Paterno and MM think that going to Schultz is equivalent to going to the police, then this answers the whole legal and moral responsibility (or at least a lot of it). Many people have brought up the Shultz=police, and before I continue to parrot that line I want to make sure it is actually true.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 14, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I would question

what is the point of having Schultz at the meeting if he wasnt acting in regards to the police? I see no other reason for him to be informed and part of the meeting with MM, unless acting on behalf of the police.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 14, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I would also say by involving

Schultz, Paterno was taking MM’s allegations very seriously. This wasn’t Paterno calling in on an anonomous tip line – he was bringing in the Police Commssioner.

Yo fumo español

by rahpsu92 on Nov 14, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure that Paterno called for Schultz to be there

From my understanding, Joe called Curley and set up a meeting with MM and Curley/Schultz. Joe may have said “hey bring the police in on this” or maybe Curley was the one to bring him in. But I imagine either way, he was represented as the “police” in this situation.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 14, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe that the University felt that he was adequate representation from Police Services.

The fact that he was also head of HR means they could kill two birds with one stone.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 14, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Very strong analysis.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 13, 2011 8:04 PM EST reply actions  

Well Put...

I’ve been saying basically the same thing for the past three days.

by NoLimitLion1 on Nov 13, 2011 8:20 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Probably the best

This is by far probably the best descriptions of the shoulda, woulda, coulda’s by the Penn State Trustees. I’ve been making this argument for days. If it is revealed that Paterno is far less culpable then imagined, and I were him, I would sue every news media outlet and beat writer until their eyeballs were swimming in debt. He could donate the money to Penn State for academic scholarships in the names of abused children. Wouldn’t that be ironic?

by WeArePennState on Nov 13, 2011 8:35 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Related....

I wrote a fanshot about the GJ Report apparently being leaked via a “glitch” although it was to be sealed.
http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2011/11/13/2559793/pa-gov-in-middle-on-penn-state-case

Perhaps some of this media frenzy is avoided if that’s the case, because if the information was protected from the public, what changes is that we only know about the indictments and not much more.

Those convicted will have their day in court, and perhaps we will eventually know the extent of what Joe did or didn’t do.

by Artiefufkin10 on Nov 13, 2011 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

I wrote this in the early morning hours of Nov 10 and was feeling very angry McQueary had not been fired along with Joe. Seemed so backwards and unfair. Upon reflection, I cannot imagine how I would react to the situation he found himself, and implying he was a coward was unfair.

by Dwherbe on Nov 13, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

no, you were right.

McQueary deserved exactly the same treatment as Paterno. Unfortunately the BoT got it wrong, since that treatment is NOT to be fired, but at most to be placed on administrative leave.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 14, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I was simmering when I wrote this in the wee hours of Nov 10. Implying McQueary was a coward was unfair. Who knows how they would react if faced with that horrible scene?

by Dwherbe on Nov 13, 2011 11:05 PM EST reply actions  

true

though after this, I would hope every Penn Stater out there would now know exactly what to do if presented with this situation. Call the police and/or Child Services immediately. Hopefully thats one thing people have learned.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 14, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way

An anonymous trustee has admitted as much in this article. It sounds like a few people spoke up and basically said it had to happen because the cameras weren’t going to leave and might intensify and the University had to save face quickly.

While everyone already knew this, it’s nice to hear directly that this is the reason and not for some wildly hypocritical reason related to his actions/inactions, given that he did what the university would have him do in such a situation, and others who may have actually betrayed their duties are still there, or elsewhere receiving checks.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 13, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions  

And No Doubt...

An article like that will help when/If (Please When) Paterno sues ESPN, The Altoona Mirror, Cory Giger, That idiot chick from ESPN Jamelle Whocares and every other scavenger that crucified Paterno before they had even half of the facts.

I actually talked to the Altoona paper (News Tip Line)on the phone and asked them if they would cover the Paterno lawsuit against them for Defamation of Character and Slander as aggressively as they jumped on this story…

He sat there for a minute… and then told me that would depend on what the lawyers decided they were allowed to talk about.

And then I smiled for the first time since last Saturday as I told them “Good Luck” and hung up the phone.

by The Heel on Nov 15, 2011 3:42 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be a libel suit, not slander

Libel is in written form.

/what I learned from this mess

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 15, 2011 5:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Still Libel

The quick definition is that libel = written, slander = spoken, but it’s more complicated than that.

Libel is actually anything that’s published. This includes TV and Radio reports.

Slander would be anything said offhand to other people, usually an “off the record” statement.

by ppfcpp on Nov 15, 2011 7:11 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

BoT

They should have put Paterno, MM, Spanier, Curley, and maybe Schultz (he retired) on administrative leave pending further investigation on Saturday, but in any event, no later than mid-day Sunday. The BoT was shell shocked and it showed.

My question is, where the heck has PSU’s General Counsel been in the last 10 days or so? How does the GC advise you fire Paterno, but admit publically you don’t know what happened?

11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.

by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 14, 2011 7:36 AM EST reply actions  

If they have a good lawyer, then it's obvious they've taken none of it.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 15, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I see the formation of a defense angle

Namely Jerry Sandusky is a very stupid, big oafy child at heart. Put himself in weird positions because he was thinking like a kid, not an adult. Total misunderstanding, everyone!

Ugh. This sucks.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

That's pretty much the only way his defense can go at this point.

I was referring to Penn State’s GC, though.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 15, 2011 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

The thing that NOBODY outside of the situation knows,

is what was said, or not said, to those who knew. So many make an assumption that McQuery should have called the police. But what if someone further up the food chain told him to do nothing as it was being investigated? Later, if there was a decision to cover up, what if someone told him that if he wanted to keep working there, it’d be best to keep his mouth shut? What if Joe was told the same things? Remember that when much of this was happening, it was all around the dark years (darker now), and Joe was fighting to not be pushed out by Spanier/Curley/BOT.

I’m not saying that ANY of this occurred, but if any of that or something like it did, does it change any perspective? How much harder is it to do the right thing when a real or imagined threat to your livelihood is in the offing?

Also what so many don’t think about (I believe) is the generation Joe is from. His generation thought of homosexual behavior as something to be kept hidden, not talked about, and swept under the rug. Is it any wonder that he may react the way he apparently did? To really try to get at the heart of this you need to look through multiple filters to try to understand peoples’ actions and reactions to the situation as it was playing out. It’s easy to condemn someone who does not react the way we would like him to based on the current societal norms, but what if he reacts based on what the societal norms were during his formative and young adult years?

How many people would be so stunned by what McQuery was seeing – an older staff member, maybe viewed now as a friend and co-worker, well respected, perhaps viewed with some awe from his days as a player and then as a grad assistant, engaged in illicit, illegal behavior – that they’d shut down in some fashion? It’s easy to say what he should have done in hindsight, but how many saying that would have reacted EXACTLY the same as McQuery did?

by BluKoolAide on Nov 14, 2011 9:22 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Possibly adding further to Joe's burden:

(1) He seems to have retained a significant portion of his Catholic upbringing, which may have led him to say to MM, “Okay, I’ve heard enough details — I’m involving my bosses.”

(2) His brother George passed away in late June 2002. I’m not exactly sure when the 2002 incident took place — it doesn’t seem to have been during football season, since Joe was at home on Saturday. Joe and George were close — George’s passing or declining health could have been weighing heavily on Joe.

(3) This was the middle of our “dark years”, when everyone was calling for Joe’s head. As much as he loves football and Penn State, who’s to say he was not despondent over the state of the football program?

Mix all these things together, and even Joe may have felt overwhelmed . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 14, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Honestly, not a single one of those points excuses Paterno's alleged inaction, in my eyes.

About the only thing that can salvage my view of him is for him to have either thought that he acted appropriately in the given situation and/or for him to not have been informed as much as people thought he was.

Knowingly hiding what Sandusky did for any reason just doesn’t fly with me.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 14, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Do you buy that he would want to distance himself as much as possible?

Not just to put it out of his mind, but also to avoid any appearance of impropriety?

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 14, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see why one would WANT to do that

but I also see how that is not the moral thing to do, and is in effect “wiping his hands clean” of the matter despite knowing something bad was going on (why else would he feel the need to distance himself from it). Really the only way I’m able to come to terms is, again, if he thought he knew the full story but didn’t and/or thought the matter was resolved in the correct way.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 15, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

JNitt, I think these are the 2 $million dollar questions:

1. Did Joe think he knew the full story, but didn’t?
2. Did he think the matter was resolved in the correct way?

Until these questions are answered, you can assume anything you want about Joe and his actions or inactions. Unfortunately it seems like most of the world already thinks they know the answers to these questions. I’d like to wait and find out the truth, but it’s gonna be a looooong wait.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 15, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

but my protests were to BluKoolAide’s post which was an attempt to excuse some of the alleged deplorable behavior by Joe. I don’t care what the reasons are, if he did cover shit up then he deserves to have his reputation burned. I just don’t yet believe he did what most people outside (and some inside) the Penn State community think he did.

by The JuggerNitt on Nov 16, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

The generation thing

I think this is a big issue. Have you ever talked to an 70-something about pedophilia? Or any sex at all, for that matter? I don’t think I have, and the reason is their generation isn’t saturated in this kind of thing like Boomers, Gen-Xers, etc., are. Perhaps Joe wasn’t covering up the work of a pedophile because he was, you know, busy running a football team. I don’t know a lot of 70-year-olds who want to sift through all the particulars of some guy’s creepy predations, much less “cover them up.” Maybe media types can relate much better to pedophiles and CYA artists, but I’m having some trouble pinning that personality type on the Joe I’ve always observed. Perhaps the BoT figured the national media knew Joe Paterno better than us “enablers.”

Also, Joe went from a doddering, drooling, out-of-touch, senile old coot to a mustache-twirling, evil mastermind who controlled every aspect of Penn State football and has been omniscient as to the whereabouts and activities of everybody in Centre County for 20 years. That’s been quite a 180 in about five minutes. I suppose when there’s a new narrative to build, old narratives have to be flung down the memory hole ASAP.

by Jitterbug on Nov 15, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

So much of THIS

+1

Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
I don't know, but they did it. They've done it before and they did it tonight and they'll do it again and when they do it-seems that only children weep.

by chocochuck02 on Nov 14, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Nancy-Graceification is catching on!

it’s a problem.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 14, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

It really is good term.

1) It provides some vocabulary for a growing problem

2) It symbolizes that something with a readily identifiable cultural figure.

3) As a little lagnappe, it imports some well-deserved degradation of Nancy Grace through the back door.

In sum, I like it.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 14, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but we need to clarify whether we mean her approach to "justice" or dancing

one is starting to undercut the foundations of civilized criminal justice, the other is not wearing a sufficiently covering wardrobe. Personally I’d like to see less of one and more of the other.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 14, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer Nancy Grace in a burkha.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 14, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer Nancy Grace have to see with her own eyes what her vision of "justice" looks like.

It’s happened, Ms. Grace, in many a country, including this one. It’s not a pleasant experience when it happens to you or someone you care about.

You silly poofter.

The Grand Experiment will never die.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 14, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

But putting

Nancy Grace and “through the back door” together is a revolting notion. Or maybe not. I’m conflicted.

"Illegitimus non Carborundum!" (Don't let the bastards wear you down)

by RWReese on Nov 14, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

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