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Inside the Real Paterno-Sandusky Relationship

In terms of the recent affairs and allegations surrounding the Penn State football program, it can be all too easy to get caught up in the firestorm of rumor and opinion. With much of the story still missing there is quite a lot that Penn State fans just don’t know. That isn’t to say there aren’t informed opinions to be had but the misinformation circling this story can make it a difficult row to hoe.

One of the theories regarding Joe Paterno’s involvement is the belief that his alleged inaction after his report to Curley and Schultz was out of a friendship between himself and Jerry Sandusky. Certainly it does not seem far fetched that a man who had coached under Paterno for 32 years would have built some sort of relationship with him. But not everything is as it seems.

In 1999 a Sports Illustrated article covering the Sandusky’s retirement.

Sandusky was asked last week if he'll miss Joe Pa. "Well, not exactly," he said. "You have to understand  that so much of our time was spent under stress, figuring out how to win. That takes a toll. We've had our battles. I've quit. I've been fired. I've walked around the building to cool off." Paterno says, "I'm not the easiest guy to work with."

This conflict came to head when Sandusky was informed by Paterno himself that he would not be Paterno’s successor. A surprise to many as Sandusky was seen as the obvious heir apparent to the Paterno throne.

Some may say that this is merely the result of a workplace conflict. That because you don’t like your coworkers does not mean you would jump at the opportunity to send them to jail. While there is plenty of truth to this, Paterno’s comments a few years later to the Center Daily Times indicate that Paterno wasn’t exactly sad to see Sandusky go.

"In staff meetings, it was getting to be “We'” and “You” and it should be “Us.” Jerry [Sandusky's] leaving gave me an opportunity to get that out of the way and do things I'm comfortable with," Paterno told the Centre Daily Times in January 2002.

For Paterno, as much as Sandusky brought to the table, he was almost breathing a sigh of relief when Sandusky finally made his exit.

While this relationship does not solve the answers to some of the pressing questions regarding Paterno’s actions it does make one wonder why Paterno would not act if he knew more. In one conversation with a shaken Mike McQueary, Joe Paterno was given the opportunity to save the image he had created at Penn State, and rid himself of a man he was all too eager to see go.

Ultimately we can only speculate on the motives and actions of Paterno, even with the Grand Jury report any serious conclusion in terms of motive is premature without the entire story. However it does seem that the speculation that Paterno acted on behalf of an old friend seems to be unfounded.

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A key unanswered question in all this

is exactly how Sandusky’s “retirement” went down. Did Spanier and Schultz, as a result of the 1998 allegations and investigation by the police, tell Joe anything? Did they tell Joe that Sandusky had to leave for unspecified reasons? What, exactly, caused Paterno to tell Sandusky he wouldn’t be the successor? We just don’t have answers to all this.

Joe Paterno Apologist

by Joe 96alum on Nov 15, 2011 8:10 AM EST reply actions  

The million dollar question, right there.

How does Joe in 1998 not get wind of the investigation? Due to no charges being filed, Joe can’t do much – other than to tell him that he’s not the next head coach and it’s time to retire.

My tinfoil hat theory, anyway.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

He doesn't get wind

because Ray Gricar was no friend of the program (and his brother is on record stating as much). Now, Gricar generally handled himself professionally instead of acting with a vendetta, unlike his successor, but certainly his motivations were to keep the whole thing under wraps in order to not blow the investigation.

by PSU Mudder on Nov 15, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone with knowledge of the law please help...

If an individual is being investigated but never charged or indicted how closed must the investigator keep any details or even the existence of the investigation? If you go spreading unsubstantiated rumors would the investigators be opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit?

Yo fumo español

by rahpsu92 on Nov 15, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Good question.

In my relatively uneducated in criminal law opinion, and in true lawyer speak, I would say it depends. If it’s high profile, I doubt it’s possible to keep all investigations quiet. But investigators need to be very careful in this phase, as any slip might open them to liability if charges are never brought, etc. However, and again via an uneducated in this area of the law opinion, there are probably some sorts of immunity that protect police, etc. from claims against those being investigated.

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 15, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

A fair question

Let me put it another way: Let’s say you were investigated for committing a crime. After the investigation the prosecutor does not press charges (its not like there were even charges pressed). Are the police and/or prosecutor going to your employer and telling them about the investigation?

by ljdevine on Nov 15, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not thinking a call came from Gricar

but an investigation like this has to put something out there in the rumor mill.

I’ll remove my tinfoil hat now.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

From a business perspective, this is how things go down:

Let’s say the director of widget-building comes under suspicion for selling materials to do-it-yourself widget builders. (This scenario is supposed to represent criminal, not corporate, wrongdoing.) His boss, the VP of widgets and gizmos, is NORMALLY only told, “We are investigating Bob (reasons unspecified); are you aware of any activity you would deem suspicious? No? Okay, we will inform you of details as appropriate.”

If the investigation is closed out with no charges brought, the boss is told, “Our investigation is closed, with no wrongdoing uncovered.” The boss is given NO details that could prejudice him against an individual who is “innocent” per the police investigation.

Obviously this does not preclude people talking/gossiping. I came to Duke after the lacrosse scandal, but I’ve been told the news was out before the students left the first meeting with the administration. Gotta love people’s ability to be discreet. That said, each of reacts to the rumor mill differently — some indulge it as much as possible, others ignore it. Who’s to say Joe didn’t ignore the rumors as much as he could? He claims not to read the media reports about the football team and himself; I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to how much he knew/heard.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Who’s to say Joe didn’t ignore the rumors as much as he could? He claims not to read the media reports about the football team and himself; I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to how much he knew/heard.

I just read a person’s blog who discussed Penn State and Herman Cain through the lens of what people, especially men, are conditioned by society to dismiss mentally.

I can’t say that I particularly agreed with the author’s statements such as:

That questions illustrates exactly the issue at hand. Sex acts with a child are seen as non-threatening by many men. Is it because they themselves have been abused and grew to “deal with it” and therefore diminish the destruction it can cause?

I don’t necessarily think that one has to be a victim to “dismiss” even horrible things. Paterno was 74 years old. How many men that were born in the 1920’s and settled into adulthood in the 1940’s and 1950’s are even really capable of emotionally handling such an issue in the same manner as those of us born in the 1980’s? Society conditioned people differently back then. Paterno hears a second-hand account of an event and he’s going to respond the best way he knows how: put it in front of people who should take care of it. It’s not even necessarily a conscious decision to drop it at that. It’s societal conditioning.

Now, this is getting into purely conjectural psychology and sociology, but hell… it’s worth considering as much as the possibility that McQueary suffered / suffers from PTSD in regards to what he saw in 2002.

That being said, I’m not sure how victims of sexual abuse would respond to this situation if put into Paterno’s position. There’s a pretty good argument that they would respond more aggressively. There’s also the possibility that they would respond more passively, as the author of the post I read suggested.

When I was younger, I enjoyed taking baths (still do, actually). I’m not sure of my exact age, maybe somewhere around 8-10 years old, as I was old enough that I remember that day very clearly, and I was old enough to have been taking baths alone for several years. One day, I was taking a bath, and my grandfather walked in and proceeded to talk to me while he used the toilet. He just stood there and urinated while looking at me, as if it was completely natural. I had never mentioned this to anyone prior to this Penn State scandal and even now, I’ve only mentioned it anonymously online. I was never touched in a sexual way by anyone. This is the only incident that I can remember of being so incredibly… uncomfortable. Nothing else ever happened and in my own mind, I filed this incident away as dismissible.

Should I have? I don’t know. It just never occurred to me to dredge it up in my own emotions until now. In the context of what we know about Penn State and that grand jury report, an incident such as this shouldn’t be dismissed. In another context, maybe it’s dismissible as weird, but not criminal or anything.

by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 15, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

First off. It's big of you to vent something like that.

If it had has made you uncomfortable all these years. Hopefully this helps you maybe understand it better, I don’t know I’m no therapist.

Second. I don’t know you, I don’t know your grandfather, I don’t how old you are, I don’t know where you grew up. To me, the incident you described is pretty harmless though. I spent several formative years in Europe, and my family would go on ski trips and vacations with other families from school. Saunas, pools, beaches, showers were common scenes of adult-child nudity. So maybe the incident you described wouldn’t bother me as much. I will say this….every GODDAMNED ADULT in those scenes from my childhood knew what the FUCKING DIFFERENCE was between innocent nudity and FUCKING “HORSING AROUND”. Whatever the hell that is even supposed to freakin’ mean?!?!?

I am pretty sure I, as a man, know the difference between seeing Mrs. Svenson’s boobies and having a _________********** up my ass.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 15, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, I completely understood the target of your ire.

As for my situation, my mother said that at some point when my sister and I were very young, she and my father (the grandfather was on his side of the family) would never let my sister and I be around my grandfather alone. That was right after she and my dad got divorced, so I don’t know if she was lashing out or not.

At the time, I was old enough to be uncomfortable, even if I didn’t know why.

by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 15, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

There is some cultural element

I have friends who have given me shit because I’ve admitted to showering communally after basketball games in high school. Our culture is very sensitive to any kind of nudity like that, apparently.

I lived in Italy for different parts of the past 5-6 years. I played soccer over there once a week with a bunch of guys, only 2-3 of whom I actually knew. Everyone showered afterward. It wasn’t weird at all, and it wasn’t gay (stop snickering). One time one of the dudes, who is married, said very genuinely “wow, you got really sunburned, you need to wear more stronger lotion next time” while in the shower.

It would have been weirder, and I would have been judged if I DIDN’T shower. My shirt was always literally soaked through in sweat and I smelled like a wildebeast. It’s just part of the culture, they never had a Puritanical part of their history, so they were never indoctrinated to be ashamed of their bodies and equate any sort of nudity immediately with sex.

Anyway, I just wanted to note that this is completely an aside. The context of showering we’re talking about – a young boy and a non-relative, with no supervision, is NEVER cool. At least definitely in American culture. I’m making no excuses for that, just joining hbeach’s discussion on a corollary issue.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the key

to hbeach’s comment is there is a Jupiter sized difference between showering in a communal shower and “horsing around”.

Let's go State

Beat Wisconsin!

by jman07 on Nov 15, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed
The context of showering we’re talking about – a young boy and a non-relative, with no supervision, is NEVER cool.

by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 15, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Funny story (at least, to me.)

My team had been out in the field for a couple months, and were returning to garrison in a week or so. Everybody was pretty stir-crazy — we had been busy, of course, and were ready for some down time. One of the guys organized a contest to see who could urinate the highest in the air. About eight guys gathered in a big circle (so they could judge for themselves), and let fly.

At the time (1970’s) it was estimated it cost the government about $100,000 to train a single Special Forces trooper. My team sergeant walked over to me, draped his arm over my shoulder, and said, “Mark, you can see what almost a million dollars buys these days.”

Nothing sexual in any of it — it was hilarious!!

Totally different context than what we are suffering through, but some of your stories triggered the memory. Thanks for the mind jog!!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think a lot of "memories" have been jogged by this, myself included, see above.

But to see Sandusky try and trivialize his actions, when it is SOOO clear that he was in the wrong, no matter what degree of severity, just makes me so angry. So fucking depressed, and sad, and angry. It is so clear to me that this man is seriously messed up in the head.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 15, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think we could stand to learn a lot

and maybe help prevent this type of thing from happening in the future if we work hard to understand where the problem comes from. How does his mind work? How do the minds of pedophiles work? What are some patterns? Can they be diagnosed and treated to overcome whatever it is that makes them do these things? Can we train people to spot signals in others that might reveal them as a risk? Etc.

He’s a sick man. But if we can learn something from him, it could do a lot more help than simply locking one man away for the rest of his life.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

As many are posting, it is

difficult for us “normal” folks to understand the psychopath.

Neighbors of Jeffrey Dahmer: “Quiet guy — good cook!”

Neighbors of John Wayne Gacy: “Good neighbor, would mow my grass in the summer and shove snow in the winter. The smell? Oh, we all thought he couldn’t handle a gas grill.”

On and on. Redundant post: “The Banality of Evil” by Hannah Arendt — a book about the Israeli trial of Adolf Eichmann.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It is hard to understand

But it’s better to try than to write it off as one evil man and forget about it in the future. If there are any lessons we can learn, and anything we can use to prevent things like this in the future, we need to pounce on that.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed!

I am rereading “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” right now. The German people failed collectively, time and again, as did many of the German institutions. We saw what emanated from those failings. Must NOT repeat, whether on that scale or this.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I graduated high school

in 1988 (in exotic SE PA). I don’t know how it is now, but in those days post-gym class communal showers were part of the deal from 7th grade on.

The cultural difference is – it was very awkward being a 7th grade boy stripping down in front of your classmates and soaping up. However, the few kids that avoided it were ridiculed to submission (plus they stunk like wildebeasts the rest of the day).

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan

by rahpsu92 on Nov 15, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Which SEPA HS?

I’m a 1987 grad of North Penn.
And yes, post gym class communal showers since ~7th grade.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Nov 16, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

ELANCO (Garden Spot HS)

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan

by rahpsu92 on Nov 16, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I have taken showers in with teammates from the junior high through college

It never once occurred to me that it was homosexual, erotic, or wrong. Now if the coach came in and did it was another thing.

Damn I wish we would have succeed in drilling that hole into the girls showers from our showers though…that would have been 9th grade gold in a hole.

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Nov 15, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

TWSS.

Sorry, I haven’t seen anybody using that in a while, and am going for the cheap laugh . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

conjectural psychology and sociology

In other words, all psychology and sociology.

After all, they are social sciences. Accordingly, they stand on shifting epistemological ground. The best it ever gets is probable. That’s why nobody today but the most blind positivist would dare talk of covering law theory in these disciplines. The more enlightened instead attenuate their claims under the umbrella of rules-based theory.

I only point this out because far too many expect certainty from the behavioral sciences along the lines of what we might get from physics. And that’s understandable. Nobody wants to believe that several aspects of their lives are at the mercy of random and chaotic forces. So we invest the probable with the certain, transforming it into “fact” in our own minds.

Unfortunately, a bunch of that “fact” is on no firmer ground than pagan superstition.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Gotta remember the "Foundation" novels.

The “science” was in analyzing group-think. An individual was too random, and amounted to the “butterfly flapping its wings, causing a hurricane” scenario.

On the other hand, maybe I should stick to finance . . . . ??

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Sara Ganim went and talked to the JoePa class last week

And she said that there is no reason to believe that Joe knew anything about the ’98 allegations.

Follow my antics: @DanVecellio

Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno

by Dan Vecellio on Nov 15, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Because it was so long ago and not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things...

…I can’t remember exactly what all went down then, but I did get the impression then that there was a rift between Joe and Sandusky. And I seem to remember the media at the time trying to paint Joe as the bad guy in their relationship. So even if there wasn’t a rift the media definitely tried to portray it as such.

by J Breezy on Nov 15, 2011 8:13 AM EST reply actions  

i remember this very well.

There was a ton of Joe is old, Joe must go. PSU just blew a chance to get the guy that really runs the team, all kinds of stuff we still heard up to this year.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 15, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the insight, Ben

I was previously under the impression that Paterno and Sandusky were close until 1998 or 1999. This is just one more reminder that, as those above have also mentioned, we simply don’t have all the facts yet and need to avoid rushing to judgment until we have those facts.

And your reporting and writing quality is among the very best I’ve read during this scandal. I sincerely mean that. So kudos to you, and keep it up, Ben!

Let's Go State!

by Gopher Broke on Nov 15, 2011 8:23 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

Thirded.

#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)

by Orange and Black Forever on Nov 15, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

There are also the reports

that Paterno did not attend Sandusky’s retirement “gala”.

Now, JoePa may have been ill, he may have been on a recruiting trip, he may have been “down the shore”, but he didn’t attend. It’s pretty bad if your “boss” of 20-30 years doesn’t at least make a “token” appearance at the party to honor the accomplishments of a retiree. My take on that is he was asked to leave and given the opportunity to choose to take retirement to “save face”. It would be interesting to see what high ranking officials did attend.

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.

by PaJoe on Nov 15, 2011 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

Or a convenient excuse.

To not show up for a guy he didn’t like.

by J Breezy on Nov 15, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

this is probably more the reason

but Joe tends to be a tad tactful, at least since the Barry Switzer comment years ago.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 15, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

True but

Not a very good excuse for skipping out on a gala for a 20 year employee.

by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 15, 2011 9:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

From a VERY reliable friend/source...

Joe told Sandusky he wasn’t going to be retiring any time soon, despite Sandusky really wanting the head coaching job. That, combined with Sandusky spending more and more time with Second Mile—which had initially raised the ire of Joe—caused Sandusky to essentially decide to enter “forced” retirement. As for the retirement gala, Joe showed up, but announced he couldn’t stay after only a minute. He claimed some prior commitment to Sue—a college of education event or something that was probably pretty trivial. Later at the NLC or QB Club (I forget which one I was told), Joe bashes Sandusky outright.

That’s all I can remember being told, right now. If I remember anything else, I’ll update this comment.

A Garden State Nittany Lion...

"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make." - Michael Weinreb

by Mike Pettigano on Nov 15, 2011 8:53 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I heard the same thing ...

… though they said Joe stayed for a full 5 minutes at the event? I think my source was also very trustworthy.

by markawiser on Nov 15, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Well done explanation. What is missing for many is

why would Sandusky retire from football all together?

Sandusky may have been on the outs with JoePa, but why didnt Sandusky simply bite the bullet, leave his beloved PSU, take a HC job elsewhere (Maryland) and show his detractors (JoePa namely) that they made a huge mistake by not keeping him on staff?

Was Sandusky’s “brand” so toxic by the time he “retired”, other programs were aware of rumors of his affinity for boys which made him unemployable?

Or was Sandusky becoming obsessed with young boys and feeding that obsession through ever-increasing involvement with Second Mile, such that he no longer cared to coach?

Proud mini-Saban.

by Tidee Whitee on Nov 15, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

He was a finalist for the opening at Virginia a short time later

That job went to Al Groh.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 15, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Also

it seems like long time coaches under Joe have trouble getting jobs elsewhere, for whatever reason. Look at Bradley. Very similar career path: player at PSU, GA, then coach. Yet no one seems to want to have anything to do with him as a HC.

There could be a number of reasons he just retired as well. Perhaps he didnt want to expose himself to the questioning and background checks that might come with a HC job. Maybe he just wanted to spend more time with Second Mile. Maybe he only wanted to coach at PSU and nowhere else. I think consipracy theory stuff is a little over-blown.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I think your last option is the most likely

It would have removed him from an environment that it (appears) he cultivated to feed his sickness—the Second Mile. That’s the only logical explanation to me.

That was more important to him than football.

by psu87intn on Nov 15, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

So rec'd

A Garden State Nittany Lion...

"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make." - Michael Weinreb

by Mike Pettigano on Nov 15, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

#teamfalseflagged

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

#TeamBittner

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 15, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

#BuckleUp

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 15, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

#TeamHashtagTeam

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Right

just as there are those same cliques within the current staff. Remember all that Bradley-to-Pitt stuff, and the speculation about who he’d take with him.

A Garden State Nittany Lion...

"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make." - Michael Weinreb

by Mike Pettigano on Nov 15, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes...

I have worked with some people for 10 years. We can work together very well. I also can’t stand some of these people personally (I’m sure they’d say the same about me) and will/ have only put in token appearences at going away celebrations, etc.

11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.

by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 15, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone just left my department that I've known for 12+ years

I went home for lunch that day rather than dealing will all the fake “we’ll totally miss you!” BS.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

awesome

sounds like something i would do

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 15, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

about a year ago my boss asked if I would say something at a little ceremony for a guy retiring with 40+ years. I politely declined. I had worked with the guy for 5 yrs and I know that at one time he was very good worker. But the previous 5 yrs, I would say were the beginning of his retirement…..

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

"J Breezy, pass it along and make sure

everybody gets a piece".

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan

by rahpsu92 on Nov 15, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Speculation? Unfounded?

Was ist das???

The Grand Experiment will never die.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 15, 2011 9:20 AM EST reply actions  

You guys are finally getting.....

closer to the “real facts” of this 20 plus year “soap opera”. There is alot I do know, but it will have to play out in the legal system. I do know that Joe is not to blame and that Sandusky is the EVIL of this sexual assault story and the ruination of many lives and careers.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."

by DerryPharmer on Nov 15, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Derry

Shoot me an email….carolinaeasy83@gmail.com

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Nov 15, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for coming back around, Derry

Being so much closer to this story than the rest of us, I can only imagine how hard it’s been on you. You won’t find a lot of people out there in Joe’s corner right now, but you will in here.

It was an awful week, but the tide is starting to turn. I hope evidence comes out that shows Joe is not guilty of the extensive failings that people have attributed to him. Even under the best circumstances, his public reputation will never go back to being unblemished. But as long as the truth comes out, and people are able to judge Joe based on fact rather than speculation, that will be some small measure of justice

by newenglandnittanylion on Nov 15, 2011 10:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Derry...

Based on what you know, do you see this situation unfolding the way it should/

I realize that’s extremely vague, but clearly you have some information you’re not at liberty to share.

by Artiefufkin10 on Nov 15, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Derry, you will want to check this out:

http://westillare.com/2011/11/10/paul-and-maralyn-mazza-nittany-valley-pillars-letter-to-joe-and-sue-paterno/

It is a live reading of a letter written to Joe from Paul and Maralyn Mazza, really says it all. Incidentally, there is a lot of other really great content coming from across Nittany Nation up on westillare.com. Check it out, and post, if you’re of a mind.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Nov 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Wait...

is the Ben Jones that went to state high, graduating in ’07?

by SlingStone on Nov 15, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions  

Ben went to Polk High...

and is kind of a big deal. Four touchdowns and all that…

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 15, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

How much you want to bet

Ben can throw a football over them mountains?… Yeah… Coach woulda put Ben in fourth quarter, we would’ve been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes that's me


Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
It was all a dream, I used to read Word-Up magazine.

by Ben Jones on Nov 15, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

ha.

Not too surprising, though. Well done on your reporting here.
This is Kyle McPherson, currently deployed in Kuwait.
Houserville 4 Life.

by SlingStone on Nov 15, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

haha whats up man

Stay safe over there.

CreeksideFTW.


Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
It was all a dream, I used to read Word-Up magazine.

by Ben Jones on Nov 15, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

WHAT"S WRONG with this.....

An adult man, under the guise of a coach, who takes showers and “horses around” and touches them, with 10 year old boys? Is there ANY answer that will make us stop and say that Sandusky is not accountable for this tragedy. He is a perjurer and delusional at the least.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."

by DerryPharmer on Nov 15, 2011 9:39 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

And he’s slime that is going to take down as much people as he possibly can and ruin his own university if he can get away with it.

Too bad I live in Philadelphia, I’d love to pick your mind about a lot of stuff. You know a lot, not just about PSU but life in general.

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09

twitter: @princessblueezy

by kmblue on Nov 15, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with with you Derry

I’m a youth sports coach, and I can’t imagine under what conceivable circumstance a grown man would think it appropriate to shower with 10-year old boys. It makes my skin crawl. At the very best, the guy is a total pervert. At worst, he is a serial child-rapist.

by speedotito on Nov 15, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention ...

… what kind of lawyer thinks it’s good for his client to give a live interview like that …

by markawiser on Nov 15, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I keep coming up with really bad theories about this.

He really thinks he’s innocent.

He’s poisoning the well to such a degree that he can’t get a fair trial anywhere.

He’s making himself beyond radioactive to the point where anyone associated with him (which is…everyone) is going down with him.

And I keep coming back to the fact that his lawyer is way overmatched and should have stuck to defending DUI’s and fraternity issues.

by Chris Grovich on Nov 15, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Probably a mix of all four

Everyone else is going big time on their lawyers (Second Mile nabbed Lynne Abraham yesterday), but Jerry is sticking local.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Saw that about 2nd Mile.

And Jerry gets Lionel Hutz. Good Lord.

With the big lawfirms involved, get ready for a steady diet of strategic leaks and endless posturing.

by Chris Grovich on Nov 15, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Did Amendola used to advertise in the Collegian

or am I misremembering that?

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Nov 15, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

He Said/He Said is going to be the name of the game.

And I can’t for the life of me figure out Amendola’s angle here. I really can’t. There is a caveat in the MPRC that says you have to follow your client’s wishes, but not if they open you up to sanctions. I mean, this guy is an idiot for allowing JS to go on NATIONAL TELEVISION and admit to some of these things.

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 15, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Replace Hutz with Amendola, and Homer with Sandusky and you get the defense strategy.

Hutz: Don’t worry, Homer. I have a foolproof strategy to get you out of here. Surprise witnesses, each more surprising than the last. The judge won’t know what hit him.
Guard: Pipe down in there Hutz!

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Nov 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think he really believes he's innocent

I mean, he’s publicly admitting that he showered with young boys. Under what context on this planet or any other would that even be remotely viewed by somebody as acceptable? It’s not! Unless you really are warped in the mind, which would allow you to see it as “harmless horseplay” and if you believe that, well you very well might believe you’re innocent of all doing.

Let's go State

Beat Wisconsin!

by jman07 on Nov 15, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

It's been mentioned elsewhere

but it’s sort of like the Michael Jackson defense. “I just love kids so much, I think it’s cool that they sleep in my bed.” (paraphrasing MJ there)

Doesn’t make it right. Very much not right at all.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

It boils down to this:

He cannot refute that he was in the showers with kids. That is pretty much indisputable at this point. So he has to start putting the shadow of doubt out there in the public realm. The potential jurors are out there and he has to get his side of the story out in front of the jury selection process. This is his only defense for what to you and I, is the indefensible.

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Nov 15, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm betting he's similar to most sociopaths

There’s probably something wrong with his brain. Some forced compulsion to do the terrible things he’s done. I swear I’ve seen a study or documentary that looked at the brains of either sociopaths or pedophiles and compared the reactions that took place against a normal person. They were remarkably different.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I should really talk to my friend

he was getting his doctorate (or masters, I cant remember) studying these kinds of people. I bet he could shed some serious insight into all of this.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

It was as if...

… he knew that his answer was the wrong answer and he had to come up with an acceptable one.

by Tezcatlipoca on Nov 15, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Anybody watch The League?

When Ruxin was teaching Kevin how to lie, he told him, “when you need to buy yourself a couple seconds to think of an appropriate answer, repeat the question”

Let's go State

Beat Wisconsin!

by jman07 on Nov 15, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I've seen studies like that

Where the areas of activity are elevated in some areas and almost nonexistant in others. I agree with you though, and as others in previous comments in different threads have said, he probably views all that he did as helping the kids.

Let's go State

Beat Wisconsin!

by jman07 on Nov 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I've been saying this since day 1

In fact, I think I said this in my comment to the initial story about the investigation in March. His brain is wired entirely differently. I’ve been waiting all week to find an article written by a psychologist on this type of thing, but haven’t found any yet.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

As time goes on I bet you'll find one

Be sure to link it though, as I’ll be very interested in reading it.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

here's a mayo clinic report about pedophilia

“personality traits of the pedophile,” etc is about a third of the way down. It’s a scientific paper, so lots of citation of other research if you’re that interested…i found this less insightful than i’d hoped:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/82/4/457.full

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Nov 15, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

There's a lot of good info in there to understand

Here are a few excerpts that I found interesting for this situation:

Heterosexual pedophiles, in self-report studies, have on average abused 5.2 children and committed an average of 34 sexual acts vs homosexual pedophiles who have on average abused 10.7 children and committed an average of 52 acts.
Many pedophiles also demonstrate narcissistic, sociopathic, and antisocial personality traits. They lack remorse and an understanding of the harm their actions cause.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

well that second quote is very telling

I’ll look at this tonight when I get home. Probably not a good thing to read at work.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s not uncommon with people who do these sorts of things. No one that abuses kids does it purely because they want to f*ck a kids life up beyond repair. They do it because they have something wrong with them mentally, something that does not allow them to understand, or rather think that what they are doing is even remotely wrong.

Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.

That is all.

by EREX21 on Nov 15, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Has anyone nabbed The Hammer?

The Grand Experiment will never die.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 15, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think he's going with the Lenny defense

if he starts calling people “George” we’ll know for sure.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I am also a lawyer

And I can’t figure out what the hell his attorney was thinking. He stood to gain NOTHING by giving that interview. I think it was okay for the attorney to be interviewed, but allowing Sandusky to be interviewed was pretty dumb, IMO

by speedotito on Nov 15, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

well, it was a pretty good lesson

for all the 1Ls out there as to why you (almost) never let a defendant testify.

by PSUgirl on Nov 15, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Inappropriate vs. Illegal

I think Sandusky is walking a fine line here between what is inappropriate behavior with kids and what is illegal because there is a difference. You can already see his defense being formed in this manner. Of course sodomizing a 10 year old is illegal, but I have no doubt the law is going to get hazy regarding group showers after sporting events and is going to be left to juror interpretation.

by catesinator on Nov 15, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Defense tactics?

I think Sandusky has convinced himself that, if he admits to doing some inappropriate things, people will think “Well, he’s being honest about doing some pretty creepy things, so maybe he’s being honest when he says he didn’t do those even more awful things.” It’s a pretty common method of lying/deception. However, it isn’t a valid defense tactic in this instance, where child rape is involved. I think most normal people, and most members of the jury, will think “Yuck, if this guy showers with and engages in naked horseplay with 10 year old boys, it isn’t a huge leap to think he also molests them and/or rapes them.”

by speedotito on Nov 15, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

gotta mourn the loss of our old beloved conspiracy theories...

Like that Jay wouldn’t have had a job if JS was coach and that Joe was grooming Jay for the HC spot.

by PSUgirl on Nov 15, 2011 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

Ah, the goold old days

of who was going to be our starting QB.

Seems like an eternity ago.

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 15, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember the good old days when I argued with people here and at BHGP who thought Joe was a senile puppet instead of an evil mastermind partaking in, as one political blogger (who should stick to talking about stuff he actually knows something about) put it, a vast conspiracy of silence?

The Grand Experiment will never die.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 15, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Joe is a paradox!

He’s both a puppet figurehead AND the most powerful man in the state of Pennsylvania, SIMULTANEOUSLY!

Let's go State

Beat Wisconsin!

by jman07 on Nov 15, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Always baffled by the "most powerful man in central PA" comments

Joe had a lot of power. But that power was limited to basically one arena – raising money for the school, other causes and the athletic programs, and keeping his job as football coach.

Joe didn’t get very involved in local politics, though he let it be known who he personally supported. He didn’t call in favors with the governor, or the DA, or the AG, or whoever else. He used his leverage as someone who could make a lot of money for the university to keep his job as head football coach. If Joe was someone who liked to use his clout to pull strings in other arenas, why did Scott Paterno not win his election? For a contrast of someone who uses their power politically, have you ever seen ANY Bush, even the least qualified, ever lose a small-time election?

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think Joe didn't really have power

more like sway. If Joe Paterno told you to do something, you didnt really have to do it, but chances are you were much more likely to do it because it was him telling you. If that makes any sense.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 15, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

In regards to the 2004 Curley/Spanier/Paterno meeting

If Spanier and Curley and the Board really wanted Joe to be done coaching, they wouldn’t have renewed his contract. Is it unthinkable that the grown men in that living room were able to have a conversation and Joe was able to make a sound and logical point for him to stay on as head coach? People think that Joe just said “No” and that was it. I don’t buy that for a second. When talking in a group like that, I don’t see Joe actually convincing those men he should stay being out of the realm of possibilities.

Follow my antics: @DanVecellio

Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno

by Dan Vecellio on Nov 15, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't he say...

paraphrase – “Give me one more year, I can feel things are coming together. If after that year the team hasn’t turned the corner I will step aside”?

Yo fumo español

by rahpsu92 on Nov 15, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't remember the exact quote

Just trying to say if Spanier and Curley and the Board really wanted him gone, they would have taken care of it. They did this time when Joe wanted to finish out the season. To those saying Joe was everyone’s boss is total bull.

Follow my antics: @DanVecellio

Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno

by Dan Vecellio on Nov 15, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Only in the quaint Steven King-ian

hamlet of State College Pa where all appears normal but evil lurks behind every corner and under every rock. What nobody knows is Joe fired himself. The BoT is the scapegoat. Ray Gricar crossed him once. Mwahahahaha!

The Puppet Master will next target Governor Corbett. How -you can not be certain. Fog moves in…

Yo fumo español

by rahpsu92 on Nov 15, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I only had one interaction with Joe.

It was on a Sunday morning my freshman year. I was on my way to church at Eisenhower and the campus was basically deserted. Along the way I saw the unmistakable figure of JoePa approaching. I was basically star struck (even though this was before Joe was looked upon as almost a deity…heck, even the Pgh media didn’t hate him yet), but when we met he looked straight at me, smiled nicely and said “Good morning!”, as cheerfully as could be. He could have easily ignored me, but he didn’t…he not only greeted me warmly, but initiated the greeting. Since then he’s always been ok in my book and Iv’e always thought him to be genuine.

I hate how he’s now being made out to be some kind of monster that he’s definitely not. I sure hope he can recover his good name from this character assassination.

By the way Derry, I met your daughter at All Star a few weeks ago. She was very nice.

by J Breezy on Nov 15, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks.....

I hope that you and some of the BSD contributors are able to attend the PGH Alumni Chapter Holiday Party at the Penn Brewery 6-10PM. She mentioned that she met you and other bloggers and I intend to be there and hope to meet fellow and sister bloggers and PSU lovers from the area. It should be fun albeit the “bad pub” that is floating around our collective heads. I’m sure of one thing, we’ll have alot to talk about and as of now, Matt Rice, former FB great and Artist will be our special guest. SO, come on down!!!

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."

by DerryPharmer on Nov 15, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

When is that scheduled?

I won’t be able to attend (live in the Philly area), but a friend from Pittsburgh might be interested.

by Nittanian on Nov 15, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Holiday Party

Hosted by The Greater Pittsburgh Chapter, PSAA
Thursday December 1, 2011 6-10 PM
Penn Brewery

And yes, our special guest will be Matthew Rice (MateoBlu.com). He is a tremendous man, with major talent. He is pleased to attend and mingle with PSU alum, as well as show off his artwork.

by PghNittany on Nov 15, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

To My Fellow BSDers ...

I know first hand what this has done to my Pops – I have been more concerned about him than myself (& I am the alum, not him). I am glad he’s back ;-)

by PghNittany on Nov 15, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You should add

Twelve Angry Men to your viewing list.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Nov 15, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

3) I want the State Police chief to be force-fed doughnuts and coffee in a Caligula re-enactment.

Yikes.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

My apologies. I was counting that

most folks wouldn’t have either lowered themselves to have seen the movie, or recalled how that scene ended. Obviously meant not to be taken literally. This darn internet has no tonality.

*

by Smee on Nov 15, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Smee, I sense some anger from you.

I like that about ya!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

When the legend becomes fact...

print the legend!!!

+1!!!

It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa

by nylyst on Nov 15, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

The Ox-Bow Incident - underrated film

“Down in Texas where I come from, we just go out and get a man and string him up!

The Grand Experiment will never die.

by ReadingRambler on Nov 15, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

in all seriousness

is there anyone who still think paterno shouldn’t be fired after listening to sandusky last night/ even if it were one of your kids that was molested????

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Nov 15, 2011 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

Can you elaborate on how these things are related?

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't even understand it...

The comment seems to assume the parents of the victims to be less inclined to have favored Joe’s dismissal.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he meant “especially” instead of “even”, but even then I agree with OctaShields (and you, if you have the same viewpoint).

#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)

by Orange and Black Forever on Nov 15, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking about something and didn't want to create a fanpost so I figured I would pose the question on here

I just was wondering what everyone thought about PSU making the Big10 title game. Not whether they can make it, but whether it’s best if they do.

This situation is not going away anytime soon. There are so many layers about this story that people don’t even know about yet. But I think in a few weeks, the majority of mainstream media will be done talking about this on a front page/opening segment basis. But if PSU makes the title game, they are right back in the spotlight of the media frenzy and everything is dredged up again. If they make the Rose Bowl? Yikes. And it would only serve to put the spotlight on the University again, which we’ve seen hasn’t been a good thing the past few weeks. However, going to a lesser bowl would at least allow a smaller media stampede and maybe allow the players a chance to get away from a month’s worth of questions about the situation and maybe have a small chance at a normal bowl experience.

Thoughts? (I’m not saying what I wrote above is my stance, I just wanted to get everyone else’s take on it).

by GMac14 on Nov 15, 2011 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

Hadn't thought of that

until now. This nightmare is gonna continue either way for a while. You would think after so many lame questions/answers, the media would be forced to cover the football team and its prospective bowl game, no matter the location or grade of bowl game.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Nov 15, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree...

What’s needed to tone down the volume and acrimony of the coverage is some intervening event.

1) Powerful and credible information about Paterno and McQueary that would shift the direction of the narrative away from the football team.

2) Some monstrous unrelated act/event that would consume, and thus distract, the media.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes it's the medias fault Joe pa and a few other figures at penn state turned the cheek

to child abuse… I can’t believe PSU fans. I seriously hope they never win another game. The rest of the world sees a university that chose football over child molestation. If your kids ever get molested or raped, I sincerely hope no handled it the way the university did.. Just terible

JoeD AKA The Voice Of Reason

by Joe_D on Nov 15, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

for your sanctimonious post. Good to hear from yet another keyboard warrior.

Tell me: Have you stopped masturbating to pornography lately? Oh, those are grown women, who are not in the least exploited — carry on!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 15, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This is what happens when people think with their emotions.

You probably would have been one of the ones in the 1690s happy that Rebecca Nurse and nother innocents were killed in the Salem Witch Trials.

by Altoona Man on Nov 16, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

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