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Around SBN: This Week In GIFs

What is a Grand Jury Presentment?

 

I found this in the comments section of the PennLive article about McQueary saying he didn't just turn and run, by a commenter named MediaConsumer.  I've been wanting to write something like this the last week, but I figured this is better and more concise than I'm capable of producing, so I'd just copy and paste.

May I suggest people understand the word "summary". Hopefully readers will take the time to understand that the 23 page Grand Jury report "summarizes" the 3 years of the grand jury investigation. It is not appropriate to expect that a "summary" includes all of the details of such a lengthy investigation.

Star-divide

 

It seems it may also serve to understand the intent of the Grand Jury. A Grand Jury does not "convict" people of crimes. Approach varies by state but a Grand Jury generally has more members than a trial jury and is focused on hearing the outcomes of investigations to decide if there is enough evidence to "indict" an individual. The Attorney General then reviews the Grand Jury findings and proceeds accordingly based on the laws of their state.

In the US, those charged of a crime enter a plea in which they admit guilt or declare innocence. Based on this plea and other factors, the legal system can then proceed to trial. In the US, we as citizens are presumed innocent until we face trial and convicted by "a jury of our peers".

This legal approach is designed to protect our individual and collective freedom and is referred to as "due process." In any situation, as in this one, there is an expectation that the media "report the facts" to the public at large. Unfortunately, the modern media has become much more about "telling stories" than "reporting facts". The media is a "commercial" concern, not a regulatory or governmental concern, and therefore "reports facts" and "tells stories" which are in the best interest of their commercial charge which is to generate profits.

It is our responsibility as citizens to understand the facts in this and any other "story" the press communicates. With regard to trials, the only time we as citizens have a voice in anyone's guilt or innocence is when we sit on a jury. The media, however, has an extremely loud and influential voice with regard to public opinion because they tell stories every day and, in modern times, are involved in many more "opinion pieces" than "reports of fact".

 

As in any consumer situation - "buyer beware". Some members of the press have stated that "in this horrific case, due process just doesn't matter." Beware of such anarchist statements. Don't let the press gain even more power than they already have. Due process is one of the fundamental concepts that defines our freedom.

 

Here's what I'll add.  

 

1. The Attorney General does all they can to AVOID putting details in the presentment.  The more testimony they include, the more substance it gives the defense attorney to attack and discredit.  If the presentment is not the "bare minimum" required (phrase of the week), they're doing it wrong.

2. It does no one any good to parse language in the presentment, unless that language has quotation marks around it.  An anonymous commenter there said something I've heard elsewhere:

 

Yeh, the grand jury report states "The graduate student was shocked but noticed both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught."

The words "left immediately" pretty much says that the graduate student did not stay long enough to stop it, but left immediately.

 

The words "left immediately" were used by whoever wrote the summary.  Perhaps they didn't feel it necessary to include exactly what action McQueary took in their summary, since it has very little to do with the charges, and might give Sandusky's defense team more substance to try to impeach McQueary at trial.  Maybe they never even asked that question.  Maybe they just made a poor choice of words.  Either way, assuming that because it says he "left immediately" that means that he took no action whatsoever belies a pretty fatal misunderstanding of exactly what you're working with.

This principle also applies to exactly what McQueary told anyone else he reported to, and exactly which authorities he spoke to.  We don't know.  We really don't. I know a lot of people have paid lip service to this idea, but people generally seem to nod to this fact much in the same way that they treat anything that comes after the phrase "having said that."

 

 

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Comment 52 comments  |  29 recs  | 

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You’re my favorite Badger.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Nov 15, 2011 9:42 PM EST reply actions  

well, crap, I get the O names all mixed up

still love you, Octa. And I’m glad you’re back.

And I still wish there was a delete button for comments.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Nov 15, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

I love the use of that. Cheers me up every time. Thanks to TME for introducing me to that hashtag a while ago.

I even posted it directly to OBrien on FB today…he of course ignored it. As I would were I in his shoes.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Nov 15, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm actually in Wisconsin now

today I ate some cheese curds

#greatdaytobeabadger

#fatinwisconsin

Today is the day I died inside 11/9/11

by letsgopsu on Nov 15, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

No Whey!

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 16, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The thought of that

curdles my stomach.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I melt for cheesy humor.

"I don’t know who to believe – A used car salesman or the OSU Chief of Compliance."
-rahpsu92

by leeharvey418 on Nov 16, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Cheddar be sure it is funny.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Gouda one!

I'm not rationalizing - I'm being totally irrational

by GoodOleDays on Nov 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Alright, time to stop this Jack

Lets get back to talking about why Joe is such a Munster.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 16, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

this makes me bleu

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 16, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Proud to be American.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

just like the rest of us old Goats

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 16, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I havarti said this

But I think Joe was the patsy in this whole thing.

With firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right
- A.Lincoln

by SarcasmJam on Nov 16, 2011 6:28 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Why cacio just give it up?

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 16, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The media is hounding Joe in this situation

as the Roquefort their opinion Swiss worth.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 17, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Funny you should post this

I accidentally flipped my radio to Mike Wise (who I already thought was an idiot before this) on my lunch break today. Had it on just long enough for him to suggest that anyone who still backs Paterno should read the grand jury summary because it is “a complete and unbiased account of what happened.”

At this point I’m not sure if people really don’t understand the point of the presentment, or if it’s just convenient for them to pretend to not understand.

by ppfcpp on Nov 15, 2011 9:51 PM EST reply actions  

Both, indeed.

Because people are stupid.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Nov 15, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

It's because people want the Reader's Digest/McLite

version of things. God forbid they be required to think independently . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

If you can't read it and understand it in one bathroom session

it’s not reading.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 16, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

that report on War and Peace was pretty tough for me too.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Nov 16, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Certainly several media members falll squarely into the latter category.

Some of these folks have covered the legal system extensively. John King of CNN, who advanced the dominant and fact less narrative today, comes to mind.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

This needed to be pointed out.

The presentment is filtered discourse, and filtered with a specific goal in mind — winning conviction of those indicted.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Nov 15, 2011 9:55 PM EST reply actions  

If I were a "writer" or "analyst" and I didn't know this

I wouldn’t need it to be pointed out. I would seek this information myself, so I didn’t end up looking like a goddam asshole when I started talking (hopefully figuratively) out my ass. I mean, seriously, wikipedia takes 5 seconds and you can get it from most phones. No excuse for anyone.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 15, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but if you were in the media, ignorance would be your most powerful tool.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Nov 15, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

One of many of thousands of things that’s also been on my mind this past week.

Not that it helps damaged children past or future, but a 4th grader could tell you the telephone game aspects of these separate information exchanges contained therein:
- what McQueary told his dad
- what McQueary told Joe
- what Joe told Curley
- what McQueary told Curley/Shultz

Grand Juries have a very interesting role in our justice system, important role. Thinking about them has me thinking about how to report suspicions in the future.

by jtothep on Nov 15, 2011 11:43 PM EST reply actions  

The fact that this hasn't gotten more recs is upsetting to me.

Seriously, people. Let’s go.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Nov 16, 2011 12:28 AM EST reply actions  

Just Gave One

I have been a civil trial lawyer for 27 years so I can say with confience that this is an excellent explanation of what a grand jury presentment is. It certainly isn’t a transcript of the proceedings; that would be thousnads of pages.

Reputation-Vile Thing! (Othello)

by nits4ever on Nov 16, 2011 7:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll rec this too

I guess I didnt really know what all a grand jury did even though it is a term heard frequently in the news. I guess I always thought a grand jury was just a jury that had gained “elite” jury status.

"Stats from the spring," he said when handed the numbers. "I can take those down to the spare bathroom in the house. We can put them to use down there."
- Paul Rhoads

by tseyb_06 on Nov 16, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Unpossible!

The media said Joe was covering this up, therefore it’s TRUE!

by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 16, 2011 7:00 AM EST reply actions  

And let's not forget the prosecutor owns the GJ process.

He defines the questions to be asked, decides how robust an answer should be (more on that in a sec), does not have to deal with defense attorneys, etc., etc., etc.

I have been trying to convey this about GJ questioning:

Pros: “Tell me — what color is your car?”

Witness: "It’s green with khaki — "

Pros: “Hold on! Hold on! I am asking ONLY about the color of your car. Body trim, interior — don’t want to know about any of that.”

Having that kind of control can elicit incomplete answers. See above re McQueary’s alleged statement “I left immediately.” He could have said, “I left immediately — after ensuring no further activity would take place.”

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd for "intergalatic chasm"

which I initially read as “intergalatic orgasm.” Woo-hoo!!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 16, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

What happened with Rashard

is that a GJ in Hobokken found there not to be enough evidence to indict. I guess the bar’s security camera showing the asshole cop attacking Rashard as he tried to walk away was pretty tough even on a GJ. It was funny because he was charged with assaulting a policeman and aggrivated assault. There were snippets getting out, like the character of the cop and some witnesses from the bar who spoke out but everyone villified Rashard Casey because he beat up a cop, you know, trustworthy fellow, everyone believed the cop’s story.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Nov 16, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn, Rashard Casey really should have spoken out during this.

Joe took considerable flak for refusing to suspend him, and had people writing articles about how Penn State was just like every other school and valued Wins over doing what was right. When it turned out that Casey was not even charged by the grand jury, that stigma persisted for many – so much so that I’ve seen some message board comments THIS WEEK citing his refusal to suspend Casey as the moment they lost faith in Paterno.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 16, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Which just proves that even after justice is served...

…and your actions were proven to be correct and appropriate you still can’t undo all the damage that was already done.

And this is about a bazillion times worse than the Casey incident.

by J Breezy on Nov 16, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

It is any configuration of letters

plus “illion” worse. Flamillion. Jajillion. And so on.

People treat this news like I treat other news that I’m only sort of interested in. I read the headline. Sometimes, I’ll open the story and skim.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 16, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

And I thought I had heard them all...

No matter what you think about the current situation, support the players, they deserve our respect.

by Paige2PSU on Nov 16, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

How about this one, Paige?

Three blondes walked into a building. You would think at least ONE of them would have seen it . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 17, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd

"Stats from the spring," he said when handed the numbers. "I can take those down to the spare bathroom in the house. We can put them to use down there."
- Paul Rhoads

by tseyb_06 on Nov 16, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

you just somehow connected both my points and made me laugh at the same time.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Nov 16, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Octa, the benefits of a Liberal Arts education

are many!!!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

rec'ing for laughter at work!

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the Big Ten...or just lose the sweater vest.

by amandakt on Nov 16, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, all!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Nov 17, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Casey

was in fact not even indicted.

Reputation-Vile Thing! (Othello)

by nits4ever on Nov 16, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

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