Civil Suit Filed Against Sandusky, Penn State
An alleged victim of Jerry Sandusky, who was not one of the eight victims named in the Grand Jury Presentment, has filed suit against Sandusky, The Second Mile, and Penn State. The suit alleges that the victim met Sandusky in 1992 when he was 10 years old, and also alleges that Sandusky sexually abused the victim over 100 times. The acts are alleged to have occurred in multiple locations -- both inside and outside the state of Pennsylvania. The alleged locations include the Penn State football facilities, Sandusky's home, and at a Penn State bowl game (the specific bowl game is not named).
Additionally, the suit alleges that Sandusky threatened the victim and his family if he told anyone about the abuse. The plaintiff alleges negligence, civil conspiracy to endanger children, intentional misrepresentation, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent misrepresentation, premises liability, negligent supervision, and vicarious liability on the part of Penn State and Second Mile.
You may view the filing here, courtesy of the Patriot-News. The alleged victim also released the following statement:
"I am the man in this lawsuit and I’m writing this statement and taking this action because I don’t want other kids to be hurt and abused by Jerry Sandusky or anybody like Penn State to allow people like him to do it—rape kids! I never told anybody what he did to me over 100 times at all kinds of places until the newspapers reported that he had abused other kids and the people at Penn State and Second Mile didn’t do the things they should have to protect me and the other kids. I am hurting and have been for a long time because of what happened but feel now even more tormented that I have learned of so many other kids were abused after me. Now that I have told and done something about it I am feeling better and going to get help and work with the police. I want other people who have been hurt to know they can come forward and get help and help protect others in the future."
113 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
A point of contention in the suit
Lawsuit says John Doe A was assaulted between 92-96. They contend PSU and Second Mile should have known Sandusky’s history. But, first victim from GJ testimony had abuse start in ’94 and PSU and Second Mile were not alerted to anything until ’98. Not sure how they will be able to the negligence of PSU and Second Mile in terms of this particular lawsuit.
Follow my antics: @DanVecellio
Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno
One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.
Just because this guy wasn’t part of the Grand Jury investigation dosen’t mean he doesn’t have a cause of action.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I think he is pointing to the time frame of abuse.
If the assaults occurred between 92 and 96 (before any charges or investigations), will there be sufficient grounds to claim that PSU or Second Mile officials had reason to suspect Sandusky and were negligent? At least that’s how I read it.
Welcome back, btw.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Not saying he doesn't
But doubt he’ll be able to prove his claims that they were negligent in 1996 because they had to have known when it was first brought up in 1998.
Follow my antics: @DanVecellio
Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno
by Dan Vecellio on Nov 30, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
There are lot of problems with that Complaint.
One of their claims for liability is that Penn State did not take action after the High School reported the abuse.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
The Complaint is utter crap
This one is going nowhere. I have no doubt there will be some legit claims against PSU, but I just sat here and read the Complaint and it is crap. PSU’s attorneys are going to file Preliminary Objections and get nearly all of this tossed before it goes very far.
There are factual issues in there.
The other thing in there, and I think it’s pretty weak sauce, is that he seems to be arguing that by not taking action in 1998, 2002 it somehow delayed him from coming forward and increased his level of emotional distress.
And it’s lousy with conclusory allegations, “Penn State made a misrepresentation” but it never says what the misrepresentation was. My guess is that Penn State’s first move is to file a motion for a more specific pleading.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
You're probably right
Although the pleading standards in PA aren’t that stringent, of course. My general sense of the Complaint is that they are really reaching on some of the counts (intentional infliction of emotional distress, for instance, with respect to PSU), and that they are regurgitating the details from the GJ Presentment.
I think jesse. has a very good point
that he is banking on PSU settling and moving along rather than taking the time/money to defend itself.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
throw a bunch a shit at the wall
and see what sticks?
We have little tranquility but tons of tranquilizers.
by mikeissurreal on Nov 30, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I counted $300,000 in compensation
All counts total compensationof $300K “in excess, with interest, costs, and any other appropriate relief”. Looks like they expect at least $300K of Sh*+ to stick…
Rule 1019 [b]
States that averments of “knowledge” can be averred generally.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Yes
Same stroke as you, one or two years older than you (I can’t remember if you were one or two years behind me). I stole the “speedo” thing from you and “tito” is one of the things some people called me.
Haha
I just used that line the other day. I was a minute or two late for a hearing and when the tipstaff at the courthouse saw me coming down the hall and said “there he is.” I looked at my watch and said “I’m right on time.”
I think the last time I ran into you was at the original “Snowpocalypse” a couple of years ago out at Toftrees.
The complaint says repeatedly that
Penn State and Second Mile… knew, or reasonably should have known…
I interpret that as “Penn State either knew what was going on, or wasn’t supervising Sandusky to the degree they needed to be which is why they didn’t know.” That’s obviously open to argument, and ultimately may be decided by the court, but I think that’s what they’re saying.
We knew these were coming
At the risk of sounding insensitive, I have one question about this though.
…I’m writing this statement and taking this action because I don’t want other kids to be hurt and abused by Jerry Sandusky…
If this was your reason for taking this action, why did you take it 20 years after the fact? Everything has already hit the fan, he isn’t out preying on kids now. I’m not blaming the victim or anything like that, I just find that wording strange/disingenious.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
by jman07 on Nov 30, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
He’s filing this action to make a quick million bucks. He’s suing for just enough that it will be cost prohibitive to defend it, and I think the decision to leave Paterno out of it was tactical. If he was abused, he deserves his million, but he could have reported this himself if he was really interested in protecting children.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Skepticism does not mean we are insensitive.
It is possible to be skeptical while still being sensitive and respectful to the alleged victims. That has been my main point of contention with everything up until this point and most likely will be going forward. We can help those that have been victimized while not jumping to conclusions and making rash judgments prior to actual evidence.
I support getting this man all the help he needs while withholding judgment until both sides of the story are heard and evidence is produced. This is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the civil suits and this will be a rough storm to weather. A healthy dose of skepticism while acknowledging our ignorance in the absence of facts is what will lead us to making the best decisions.
by Succss With Honor Always on Nov 30, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
A lot of what I've written in this thread is premised on the fact that I thought....
…he was suing Penn State for $400,000. However, as was acurately pointed out below, all we really know is that he is suing for an amount greater than $50,000.
As it sits, if he was molested 100 times by Sandusky I don’t much care what his motivations for suit are. I’d be perfectly fine if he said, “I was molested by Jerry Sandusky and this lawsuit is all about me getting a bunch of money because of it”.
As to Penn State’s role in the whole thing, they have very expensive lawyers that will protect them just fine. Maybe even too well.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
If he was molested, he deserves retribution.
However, it becomes a lot harder to support awarding him money when he’s trying to champion a cause that monetary gains may not benefit. I have no problem with him filing a civil lawsuit, nor with any other victims. If monetary compensation is what will help them improve their lives, it’s the least we can do.
My skepticism regarding his motives comes from the fact that he is suing prior to any criminal punishment. If after Sandusky and the rest are tried and/or convicted and punishments are handed out and he feels that it was not enough, that is when the civil suit for championing the cause should come. To guise a cash grab as a means for stopping child abuse is just insincere.
by Succss With Honor Always on Nov 30, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he is afraid to wait for a verdict on Sandusky, as it could make his case a bit harder, though not impossible, if Sandusky isn’t convicted.
What happens to this entire, awful situation if Sandusky is not convicted? That was is proven is he took showers with kids and that was it. No, wouldn’t want it to by my kids, as I assume most would feel, but what if?
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Whelp
Whether PSU was negligent or not, the name “Penn State” will be raked through the coals for the next year via media court coverage. Like OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony and Blackwater.
Question for the BSD lawyer folk:
I believe this is the second mention by an alleged victim of abuse on a Penn State bowl trip. With allegations that Sandusky transported a minor across state lines, sexually assaulted the boy in another state, and then returned with him to PA, are there grounds for federal investigators to get involved?
Those who are questioning the PA attorney general’s handling of this process and are anxious for another “pair of eyes” on this case might have an in here, perhaps? Interested to hear if anyone is able to shed some more light on this.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Interesting fact.
The San Antonio DA has said that if evidence points to abuse in his jurisdiction, he will prosecute it. Also, child sexual abuse can be grounds for the death penalty in Texas. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin".
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I remember reading that they opened an investigation.
And, Mann Act, right?
by Chris Grovich on Nov 30, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes Mann act.
Once across state lines, it is Federal in most cases…benefit of that is the amount of time JS will have to do without early parole.
I hope he drops the soap…although he’d like it
May no act.................
by SweepTheLeg on Nov 30, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
felonies across state lines are definitely in the federal agenda.
FBI could easily become involved as more comes out or they will let local jurisdictions prosecute since this will not be a cheap investigation.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
This might get me banned
Qualifiers/Justification: I hate Jerry Sandusky. I believe he is guilty. I think what he did to these kids was heinous. I’m not sure exactly who knew, and what they did, but I suspect that most of those involved could have (in Joe’s words) done more. The kids, I’m sure, were scarred by this. The kids (now adults) are innocent victims.
But, I think this is about money. It’s not about protecting kids. It’s fine that he is seeking compensation, but I think the lawyer statement (surprise!) is disingenuous.
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
Nevermind
Just saw jman posted essentially the same thing. No plagiarism intended
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
Well at least we'll be banned together
Although I don’t see us getting banned for this. I agree with everything you said and would agree that it’s about money.
Not saying the guy doesn’t deserve something because what he went through is horrific beyond words. But don’t say you’re protecting kids. You would have been if you came forward 15 years ago.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
There will almost certainly be suits filed just for the money.
Whether this is one of them, who knows.
by Chris Grovich on Nov 30, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
All civil suits are about money.
The money is the apology.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Nov 30, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, yes.
You know what I mean, damn it!
by Chris Grovich on Nov 30, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’ing both of you for some reason.
suck up, brown noser??
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
This statement is correct
And its sad.
Its sad because the knowledge that this will happen makes us question the motivation behind every suit that will come forward. There are kids that were hurt by Sandusky and deserve some compensation as well as some justice. Unfortunately, every person who comes forward has to be put through the wringer. Not only have they had to live with their private pain, but as a result of this attitude, they have to decide if they are willing to subject their private pain to public scrutinty.
Personally, I don’t know if I would be able to do that. I don’t know if I’d speak out. And that is the shame in all of this, and why people like Sandusky can get away with such evil for so long.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 30, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if we could be a little more careful?
With broad pronouncements of the state of the situation and especially with the speaking for large groups of others?
Its sad because the knowledge that this will happen makes us question the motivation behind every suit that will come forward.I haven’t signed up for that characterization, and I’m not sure I agree with this either:
Unfortunately, every person who comes forward has to be put through the wringer.
I kinda get where you’re coming from and I see that you finished with ‘personally…’, and I generally respect your work around here, but I’m nervous about this kind of language and its contributions to The Machine. As Professor Sublime said the other day, the Internet has democratized publication (both a promise & a curse), so that’s just my vote, man.
by jtothep on Nov 30, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate the criticism
I was using the word ‘us’ as more of a generalization of society, rather than PSU as a whole.
Without writing a dissertation, I think I was trying to point out some obvious human bias in our collective psyche. I think that acknowledging that these types of bias exist is the first step in ridding ourselves of it. The scrutinty that I was referring to is the legal process itself. Of course it goes without saying that if no one lied, we would be able to accept everyone’s word at face value. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Nov 30, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
even 15 minutes
before the grand jury presentment came out and i would believe he did it to protect other kids.
Reporter: Can you give us a touchdown celebration, one that you would get penalized for?
Moye: I play at Penn State. I don’t celebrate.
Like it's so easy, evidently, to 'come forward'.
Suggest you spend 15 minutes with someone who was attacked, as a child, by someone the child thought was protecting him. Ask him why he didn’t "come forward.’ Be dismissive.
There will be spurious lawsuits here. But the premise, that anyone who’s been living in silence and in the dark for a decade or two, is therefore a liar, is unfortunate. That is the premise, and reality, that sustains and protects predators.
We play tackle football.
We agree!
Miracles do happen…
...with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right... - Abraham Lincoln
by Dr Screenpass on Nov 30, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
No one here is saying he is a liar
and no one here is saying he in not entitled to be compensated for this and I applaud him for coming forward and hope all victims do come forward.
All some are saying is that to say you are coming forward “because I don’t want other kids to be hurt and abused by Jerry Sandusky” sounds disingenuous after he has already been charged. Kids are now protected from him.
Reporter: Can you give us a touchdown celebration, one that you would get penalized for?
Moye: I play at Penn State. I don’t celebrate.
I'm not sure that kids will be protected
from Sandusky until he is behind bars — assuming of course that he is guilty. Thus far, the picture we have gotten of his behavior suggest either a stunning arrogance or a sophisticated calculation, likely both. Accordingly, who’s to say that he’s stopped?
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
I hate to say this, but I had immediate doubts, t
Something about this one just kind of smells. Still, nothiing about this entire sordid mess would surprise me anymore.
I agree completely.
If that were the real intention, then why not jump in on the criminal prosecution?
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Nov 30, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I just heard...
a conversation at the sub shop where a guy pretty much said the same thing. I said two things:
1. you don’t do this before because you feel powerless…think of everything that’s alleged to have happened and the pressure put on victims to keep quiet. Like we’ve said about McQueary, sometimes it’s just impossible to know what to do when you’re in the situation and there are no easy answers.
2. Maybe filing suit is something you feel like you should do (like the guy says) so that it doesn’t happen to others. Maybe even the guy feels guilty for keeping quiet. Maybe he plans to donate any damages to charity. Who knows?
Something I didn’t think about was: if you’ve been powerless, once you get power, it’s a very human temptation to want to use it to get some measure of vengeance.
Tough stuff.
by Dr Screenpass on Nov 30, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I have no doubt that these reasons are valid for waiting to come forward.
My only point is that if the real objective is justice, you should add your case to the criminal indictment. There’s nothing stopping you from filing a separate civil case after the fact.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Nov 30, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
It comes off as very disingenuous.
While the true motivations can’t be determined, just the wording and timing lend credence to this being a strictly financial move. There is just enough in the statement that including Penn State in the suit supports the morally righteous motive.
I don’t want to speculate on what really happened or what his current situation is, and we all knew these suits were coming. I guess the best that we can hope for is that the truth comes out and those responsible are held accountable. Personally I would prefer for these suits to wait and be filed until after the criminal proceedings. I think that detracts from this suit being for morally righteous reasons. If Sandusky is found guilty, and those that were in a position to stop him are also found guilty and punished, I don’t see how getting money from Penn State will add to what he is trying to accomplish.
by Succss With Honor Always on Nov 30, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I hope any and all victims are compensated to the degree that they find some relief.
Regardless of what it does to Penn State’s reputation or football program.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Nov 30, 2011 1:01 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I still care about Penn State's reputation
but if it turns out that Spanier, Curley, JoePa, and Schultz were truly negligent, then yeah, I’m willing to let it go.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 30, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
JoePa was not named in the suit.
I count that as a small victory.
by Dr Screenpass on Nov 30, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that
but there’s more to the story. Which is what we’re all waiting for.
by Mr. Rosewater on Nov 30, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
It goes to what I said above.
I think the point here is to get in and get out. If this kid was abused 100 times, I really think he could have realitically sued for 10 million dollars, but he’s be in Court for years trying to prove it. But keeping the demand reasonable, he increases his chance of getting a check in a few weeks/months.
Paterno would defend this to the death. He’s only tangentially relevant anyway, so why bother. Especially since one deep pocket is enough and he’s already got two.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I'm interested..
in what type of evidence the claimant has in this case. Pictures on trips, receipts, witnesses who saw him at and around PSU. I assume this settles before trial and probably for far less than he is asking.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
From what I've read so far...
He’s going to have a tough time proving that Penn State knew, or should have known, that Penn State was aware that Sandusky was a sexual predator prior to 1998. My guess is that this kid was abused before then, and my suspicion is that he has no evidence beyond his testimony. That will nail Sandusky, but he’s liable to be judgment proof at this point anyway.
If he had a strong case he’d be suing for 10 times what he’s asking for.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
It's been a while..
since Civ Pro and I’m not a litigator, but isn’t the asking amount generally irrelevant? A judge/jury could come back with damages drastically higher or lower, correct?
I think this is why it settles rather quickly after the initial pleadings stage.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
not a lawyer
but the $400k matters if it’s taken as the opening salvo in a settlement negotiation, right? There’s no way anyone’s paying him more than $400,000 to go away — unless they go to court, etc.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
That seems to be poor strategy...
Start higher. PSU probably makes an initial offer of about $100K and then it settles around $200K give or take $20-$25K.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Not if you want money quick.
I think the low ball demand is basicly lawyer for “I have no case, but pay me to go away to avoind negative publicity”.
Penn State would probably spend close to 400K defending this anyway. By keeping the number low, you make it easier for Penn State to just pay off right away, rather than litigiate it at all.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Negative publicity?
Take a number, pal.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Nov 30, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
low hanging fruit and all..
I see your point.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
That could be it...
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ignore the $400,000.00 thing
He is asking for an amount “in excess of $50,000.00” for each count because $50,000.00 is the maximum amount for mandatory arbitration in Pennsylvania.
Also, you can’t just add up the amount of each could. I commonly prepare Complaints where, for instance, there is a breach of warranty count and a breach of contract count, and the damages are exactly the same for each, so I state the same amount under each count. That doesn’t mean I’m asking for 2 x that amount.
There is no requirement, generally, in PA that you state the exact amount of damages. However, you do have to let the court and the other party know whether you are asking for more or less than $50,000.00, because that is the amount of the mandatory arbitration limit.
I don't know where I got the number from at this point.
But I didn’t just add them up. I remember seeing 400K against PSU and the Second Mile, and 100K from Sandusky.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
8 counts x $50k
A lot of the media is reporting it this way. Penn State and Second Mile are both listed in all 8 counts, so there are media outlets reporting that they are each being sued for $400k. Sandusky is only listed in 2 counts, so the media is reporting that he is only being sued for $100k ($50k x 2).
Ultimately, I feel better about Penn State if they agree to provide damages where damages are due. Their’s obviously a need to defend yourself from unwarranted action, but Penn State ultimately comes out better for the wear if they compensate collaboratively rather than begrudgingly.
by Kevin Powers on Nov 30, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
*There’s. I’ve been terrible lately. Even for me.
by Kevin Powers on Nov 30, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
What’s remarkable is that this guy is only using for $400,000. Even if his case is really weak.
The question on this one is if damages are due from the University…and I think it’s impossible to know at this point. If they could pay this guy 40 grand to go away, will they? Even if they don’t think his case has much merit at all? Tough strategic moment for the University here…
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
The only thing you can discern from the Complaint
is that he is asking for an amount “in excess of $50,000.00.” See my comment above.
With you right here, my brother
Best of luck to this victim in ‘finding help and working with the police.’
I also hope that all victims, of whatever age, find the courage to come forward to ask for help—at whatever time—so that we can all help make it safer for all children.
Yep.
And I hope that people don’t submit scurrilous claims with no basis just because they want to make an easy buck.
Because if we’re cool with that, I’m suing Derek Fox for not knocking that 4th down pass against Minnesota that let them kick the field goal in ’99. I suffered incredible mental anguish over that one.
by Tailgate Shogun on Nov 30, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You're. / fixed
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Nov 30, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
He owes..
me a trip to New Orleans and damages for what I would’ve done there.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Damages for denying you the ability to inflict damage?
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Nov 30, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Judgement for plaintiff. Case closed.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Nov 30, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Nov 30, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
As an aside
I made that trip to New Orleans, figuring what better place to spend the end of the world? After the FSU and VT fans, Penn State was by far the most represented group there. Apparently I wasn’t alone in my early booking.
And I am sueing Mi-cheat-again
and their paid refs, along with that coach, for the 2 seconds that were not.
http://twitter.com/tmaluchnik
He did knock down the pass...
Sue the Minnesota guy that caught it. Why are the wrong people always getting blamed?
...with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right... - Abraham Lincoln
by Dr Screenpass on Nov 30, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ha!
Christ, I’d sue the Second Mile if I thought it would erase that disaster from the record books.
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 1, 2011 6:24 AM EST up reply actions
Three specific claims that should raise a few eyebrows
On page 9:
…(a) that Sandusky had been molesting children since at least the 1970’s and (b) that many children after 2002 would not have been sexually assaulted by Sandusky.
(emphasis mine)
Then, later, on page 10:
…many children after 2008 would not have been sexually assaulted by Sandusky.
So according to this complaint, Sandusky’s been abusing kids since at least the ’70s, and many children since as recently as 2008.
Two questions:
(1) Is this true?
(2) If yes, how in the hell do they know this, and can they prove it?
by PSUMark2008 on Nov 30, 2011 2:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Like I said above...
There are ton of conclusory statements in there, and very little in the way of explanation as to how they got there. It could simply be legal strategy, or they might have bupkus. Too soon to tell.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Nov 30, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My problem with these claims is the 1998 investigation.
Especially in regards to citing 2002 as the date where he feels emotional distress. I find it interesting that he doesn’t feel the guilt of all the victims prior to 2002. I think this adds to the insincerity of his attempt to prevent child abuse.
by Succss With Honor Always on Nov 30, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Some people are overanalyzing this thing...
You think PSU’s going to let this thing linger forever on the court docket? It doesn’t matter what the complaint says…When you sue someone in a case like this, you throw everything on the wall that you can and just hope a couple things stick. So, yeah, a lot of the averments in the Complaint will be over the top and gobbledeegook. It won’t matter. I’d imagine there will be a swift settlement. In fact, PSU may want to try to have this thing converted to a class action to get it all over at once.
It will be interesting to see what PSU does with these things
There are going to be some legit ones that they will hurry to settle, but my opinion is that they will have to take some kind of stand on the ones that are bogus. They can’t hang out a shingle and say “sue us and, at the very least, we’ll throw a couple thousand at you.”
It’s going to be interesting to watch, because on the other hand they have to be very careful about being perceived as “victimizing the victims.”
I think they’ll do discovery in every case. There will be one that they take a stand, ones that they aren’t sure about and throw a little money at, and a handful that they settle for larger amounts (well, I’m hoping that it is just a handful, but we don’t know the full scope of this thing yet).
If Ken Frasier has anything to do with the legal strategy (and he may not, in all honesty), then this is highly unlkely
In fact, PSU may want to try to have this thing converted to a class action to get it all over at once.
Given the way Merck handled the Vioxx litigation when he was general counsel, I’d imagine he’d be against a class action.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Nov 30, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
A semi-related legal question:
Do the people interviewed by the GJ have any legal restrictions placed upon them that would prohibit talking about their testimony, or are they free to tell their story to whomever they choose?
I’ll take a stab at this, though civil procedure and litigation aren’t exactly my thing.
The “people” your question references aren’t exactly “interviewed” by the Grand Jury. They testify before the grand jury under questions from the prosecution without the presence of counsel on their own behalf. That’s what it is. It’s a considerably more hostile setting than an interview. When you think about restrictions, keep in mind that this person has now testified under oath. They have that to think about when they wish to talk with someone about the matter, and really any sensible person in that position is going to keep things between them and their attorney. I hope that answers your legal question.
by Thomas Rzucidlo on Nov 30, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently I did not use the proper term.
“Questioned by” or “Testified before” would have been better.
Regardless, you and speedotito have answered my question.
In PA, GJ witnesses are free to talk about their testimony
Although I assume the AG would typically discourage them from talking about it if they are going to be a witness at trial
In Pennsylvania, an attorney may be present with the witness while they are being questioned. A witness may consult with his or her attorney during the testimony. However, the Attorney is not permitted to object to questions. I think PA might be fairly unique in this (allowing an attorney to be present).
Wonk-ish question for any PA attorneys here
Why can Penn State be sued directly here? Has Pennsylvania generally waived governmental immunity, or is Penn State an institution not entitled to it under PA law? What I see here is a 1983 claim shoehorned into state court (and in Philadelphia, to boot, which I assume is a pro-plaintiff county) in order to try this under a negligence standard rather than deliberate indifference. I don’t see how it’ll work …
PP-TPW.
The Only Colors
I'm not completely sure about this
but I think the distinction is that PSU is not a part of the PA State System of Higher Education, and is therefore not considered a state/government entity for sovereign immunity purposes. It’s considered a state-related university, or something like that.
On that issue then...
…PSU has to release information b/c they received state funding (ie the whole Paterno pay debate from a few years ago). So, couldn’t they argue that they are an extension of the state education system or something like that? I’ve always like how PSU is a state system for some things but not others (sarcasm). This is the reason I switched my major from law to communications. LOL
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the Big Ten...or just lose the sweater vest.
I can't remember
but I thought releasing Paterno’s salary info had something to do with the fact that he participates in the State Employee Retirement System, or something like that. So SERS actually released his salary info, rather than PSU, I think.
Exactly
Wasn’t there a big arguement at that time that basically came down to whether or not PSU was considered a public or “state” school because they received some funds from the state and therefore required to release information. However, I know when this story broke, Spanier said they couldn’t release information b/c the school was exempt. I have a feeling that is conditional though depending on the situation.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the Big Ten...or just lose the sweater vest.
Penn State's involvement with Victim 1's situation is unclear
his complaint predates even the 1998 investigation by the missing prosecutor.
And now the Victim 2 portion of the Grand Jury Report is brought into further doubt. If the defense is being truthful and Victim 2 has come forward to state that Mike McQueary’s alleged statements as summarized by the Grand Jury Report are false. If he told representatives of PSU who got his phone number and questioned him in March of 2002 that there was no sexual contact and only horseplay it seems we are left with the victim the janitor saw who is not identified as the only other victim whose abuse was specifically accomplished on PSU property.
The claim is that PSU knew or should have known about credible allegations against Sandusky and is therefor liable and named in this lawsuit. Victim one says some of his abuse occurred in the locker room showers. But the extent of the 1998 incident was a shower and possible inappropriate incidental genital contact that never resulted in charges or prosecution in 1998.
Again at the time of the janitor sighting there was no victim identified and no prosecution or charges and no way to know if anyone in authority at PSU had reason to suspect wrong doing.
So it seems to boil down the the 2002 allegations – If victim 2 told PSU authorities that nothing sexual happened to him we are left once again with no credible reason to suspect Penn State of negligence. Someone investigated McQueary’s possible claim and were informed by the victim that nothing bad happened.
The actions of the Board of Trustees and the DA are what put PSU in the most civil liability risk because those actions make it appear that their responsible administrators were remiss in their actions. But what if the were not negligent. What if they did inquire and find that there was no cause for action against Sandusky because the alleged victim was no victim at all?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Nov 30, 2011 6:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Very interesting
Dont know what I can add to this convo though, I am sure someone else will chime in.
http://twitter.com/tmaluchnik
Also..
Thanks for providing this community with an outside voice, that is reasonable. Reasonable because you look at things more than most other outsiders view of this situation which is Penn Staters are all pedophiles.
I think you are making some really great points that I did not look at, because truthfully, I believed the GJ and thought it was disgusting. But after looking at the story and reading your ideas, I am starting to believe in hope….Not only for PSU, but for the victims as in the case of Victim 2 (if what the GJ alleged to have happened is not true, based on victim 2 himself).
http://twitter.com/tmaluchnik
I think this...
While being the best possible scenario for Penn State…
Would also be the kind of scenario that could possibly watch a guy like Sandusky walk.
"I’m not a lawyer, but I read a lot of BSD" - psuphysicist
Well
I’m not shocked by anything anymore anyways, though I do hope PSU fights it IF this Defense claim about Victim 2 comes out true.
Publicity is like poison; it doesn't hurt unless you swallow it.
Joe Paterno

by 

























