Mike McQueary Testifies: Curley/Schultz Preliminary Hearing Open Thread
by Chris Grovich on Dec 16, 2011 7:57 AM EST
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The focus in the Penn State / Sandusky scandal moves to Harrisburg this morning and we've again assembled the best damned liveblog in the business to cover the preliminary hearing for Tim Curley and Gary Schultz's charges of perjury and failure to report child abuse. In many ways, it's a bigger event than the aborted Sandusky hearing earlier this week. The testimony will not be nearly as traumatic and riveting, but it's the alleged actions of Curley and Schultz (not to mention Graham Spanier and Joe Paterno) that made this entire ordeal a Penn State scandal, not a case about a lone predator abusing children.
This hearing is not expected to get waived by the defendants. As we've learned, preliminary hearings are a rather low bar for a prosecutor, but some legal experts think that an outright dismissal of the charges isn't entirely out of the question. Curley and Schultz have been pushing their case to the media through a joint website, SchultzCurleyInfo.com.
Mike McQueary is once again expected to take the witness stand -- he's obviously the key witness in the Commonwealth's case against Curley and Schultz. According to Sara Ganim of the Harrisburg Patriot-News, McQueary will be the only witness to testify this morning.
[Cover It Live liveblog app moved below the jump.]A source close to the case said Thursday that McQueary is expected to be the sole prosecution witness and that the defense isn’t planning to call anyone else to the stand. And even though credibility is the premise of a perjury charge, attorneys for Schultz and Curley will be limited in their defense today.
“It is true that a judge is not going to allow defense counsel to raise issues that would relate to the credibility of the witness — background, questions about past, etc.,” said Walter Cohen, a former state attorney general. “But the judge will have to make a decision as to whether the evidence presented before him is credible. He makes some judgment on the issue of credibility.”
So, questions about the potentially conflicting accounts could come into play.
“I would think they’re going to certainly try to ask questions about that,” said Arthur T. Donato, an attorney and Villanova University adjunct professor following the case. “And that’s where the discretions of a judge will come into play. ... The decision rises and falls on the testimony of one witness, many judges would give more latitude than they would otherwise give in a preliminary hearing.”
“I would think there is going to be some things that a judge in his discretion is going to allow them to ask,” he said.
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So I just went over to SchultzCurleyInfo.com
I checked out the documents section and the Letter to the AG. In that letter they request MMs criminal record to be released and state that they believe he has had a criminal history in Virginia and that they want to know what leniency he may or may not have been offered in exchange for his cooperation. My question for all of y’all is: Has anyone ever heard of MM getting in trouble in VA? It sounds like it must be recent if he is possibly getting leniency in the situation.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
What could the state of Pennsylvania offer to alleviate legal trouble in Virginia?
Nothing that I can think of.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the same thing, but it was in the letter
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
One count – peeing in refrigerator
One count – being goofiest looking kid at party
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously . . .
How does a 6’5" redhead last very long committing any kind of crime.
“Well officer, he was kind of nondescript — you know, sort of an everyman looking dude.”
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
"Let's see he was tall and had red hair ..."
Stop right there. We got him.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
FLAGGED
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Dec 16, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is the scariest pic ever
He’s so much better looking in the 2007 pic.
He looks like a tranny in the 2007 pic
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
He looks like an even more deranged Chucky doll in that picture.
Freaky looking guy all around.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Just be glad I didn't post the other pic that popped up.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Please let today bring clarity, at least in a small way, to what McQueary saw and said. I realize full clarity will only come later (barring a plea deal), but, my goodness, let something extra be revealed today…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 16, 2011 8:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Amen...
but I have a feeling we will end up having more questions than answers after today.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
You’re probably right – however, I’d take more questions if they are different questions. The ones we have right now I’m completely sick of.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 16, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
I feel a dismissal coming on today
and then the proverbial feces will splatter all over the Media from the roaring fans of PSU
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 16, 2011 8:18 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I don't know.
I have to imagine the state thinks they have a good case if MM is set to testify. And the standard for these has to be relatively low.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think this thing goes to full trial but that can be expected with a preliminary.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
Of course my legal knowledge is limited to John Grisham books and a stint on the witness stand and on a jury.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
That's not far off of some actual lawyer's knowledge.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Lionel Hutz?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
Better call Saul.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Still one man's word against two and I believe the law requires corroboration
for conviction.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I can't imagine there are never he said/he said cases in civil court.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
This is a criminal charge not civil
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Still...
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just reading the statute from the law
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Pennsylvania Perjury Law
except under subsection (e) of this section, falsity of a
statement may not be established by the uncorroborated testimony
of a single witness.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
So do they need the victims?
If it truly is a he said/he said, who can corroborate MM’s story? Or do they need someone to corroborate what he said (e.g., they need Joe)?
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think the AG should ever have brought the charges
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Seems like the prosecution wanted the full bore publicity
no matter the consequences for the innocent
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I believe
They can read Paterno’s testimony from the Grand Jury Presentment.
That, I want to hear more than anything.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
I think both parties would have to stipulate
that it can be read into the record. The defense could object and it’d be inadmissible as hearsay. If it’s read in , then you’ll know that it’s defense-friendly (at least from their point of view)
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I think hearsay is fine at the prelim
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
The rule changed last year
Inadmissible hearsay can now come in, and in some instances be the exclusive basis for holding charges over to court.
So it’s coming in.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Ahh thank you
I did prelims in Philly municipal court, which, I understand, is done differently than mostly anywhere else.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Then I really hope we can hear what Paterno said.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Here's the law on inconsistent statements - come into this I think
(e) Inconsistent statements.—Where the defendant made
inconsistent statements under oath or equivalent affirmation,
both having been made within the period of the statute of
limitations, the prosecution may proceed by setting forth the
inconsistent statements in a single count alleging in the
alternative that one or the other was false and not believed by
the defendant. In such case it shall not be necessary for the
prosecution to prove which statement was false but only that one
or the other was false and not believed by the defendant to be
true.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
That says defendant.
I don’t think Curley/Schultz are guilty of inconsistent statements, are they?
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Nope - but section e is mentioned in the corroboration section F
so it does not apply here and section F stands I think
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I agree with that.
Only (f) would apply to MM.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
we are on the same page
I’m interested to know how the law on corroboration applies since this is MM vs Curley and Schultz with Dranov and Paterno tending to support the AD and VP
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Is "this section" the entirety of the criminal law?
Or specific to perjury charges? Or unrelated?
These are the things that keep me up at night.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
PERJURY LAW
SEE ENTIRE PERJURY SECTION OF PA LAW HERE
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Interesting.
Hadn’t read that statute yet.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Yer welcome guys
karl_rominger:
Well President Judge Hoover is denying access to me. His courthouse his rules. But I think with extra space available it’s not fair. #psu
I see the judge won’t let Sandusky’s lawyer in the courtroom
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Would you let a mug like that in?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps they think they have corroboration?
Mark Costanza, assistant DA, says that they expect to have 5 live witnesses along with 3 written in testimonies today. #psucharges
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Could well be - but they may not need others
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
+1
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
How I wish we never had to do open threads for court proceedings
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Dec 16, 2011 8:19 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
But as a (future) lawyer, isn't it kinda cool, subject matter notwithstanding?
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
---
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
Yea, it's probably just me being a legal nerd.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty much
Now what’re the chances the new coach is announced while the hearing is ongoing? Tro. Lo. Lo.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
I saw a black SUV with Idaho plates outside of the cafe across the street from the courthouse.
Just saying…
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
WIKI TIME!
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
That's no coach . . .
That’s Gerry Spence.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
That's working hard to stay off the radar
driving from Boise!
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
I'm all in on this.
But ya know, we’re a rare breed.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ever sit on a jury?
It’s fascinating how boring a criminal trial can be.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
No, and now I never will (as a lawyer).
But I’m sure it’s a brutal process to actually live through. That’s why I could never be a criminal atty. That, and abhoring half of my clients.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
I sat on one..
as an attorney.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Surprised you weren't immediately challenged after voir dire.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Me too...
I had to sit on a jury for a guy who sold $15 worth of pot. It was his second trial on the charge. The first one ended in a mistrial.
I also sat on a jury when I was 18. My ex-lady friend was also on the jury. Weird.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
Wow. Crazy/
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Even Crazier...
I was the foreperson. Got to read the verdict. I told none of the other jurors I was an attorney.
For the other trial, I gave my ex-lady friend a ride to the court house on the 2nd day of the trial.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
I would think sitting on the other side
would be a valuable experience for any attorney (though probably much less so for those who only do civil litigation). That’s really the only way to see what happens during deliberations, what mistaken interpretations and assumptions are made, etc.
I'm a transactional attorney...
the other jurors spent 90% of the time destroying the defense attorney for how bad he was.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn't..
I live in PA.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
I get a summons for jury duty every couple of years.
During the selection process, one of the sides ditches me upon learning I hold a Doctor of Philosophy degree.
Every. Time. Immediately.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Again, I'm not a criminal atty, but
I remember my CrimPro prof saying the one thing you don’t want is an educated jury, from a defense standpoint at least.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
I've picked my fair share of juries...
I’ve been to GD CLE’s on how to pick jurors…the whole bit.
Let me tell you, it’s all a crapshoot, IMHO. You never know what you’re getting. And some of the people that fill out those questionaires intentionally write answers the think will get them excluded.
I had a trial with an older attorney (in his late-60’s) a couple years ago that literally tried to pick the first 12 in the pool…Used all his strikes chronologically for the first few people without even opening up the book to review the questionaires. I had a couple beers with him afterwards and he told me that he had been practicing 40+ years and that is how he always did it because it is absolutely impossible to know what any individual is thinking.
I got a summons for a federal trial this spring
I have to go to Charlotte which is three hours away from my house for the damn thing.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
I sat on one where a high school kid smacked his junk off another high school kid
It was some of the funniest shit I ever listened to. The one witness testified that she heard the dick smack off of the victim’s face. The defense lawyer established that the witness didn’t actually see the dick, or it smack off of anything. He then went on to ask her what she was studying in college, and then asked if she was an expert in dick smacking sounds. I actually laughed in the jury box.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That's a risky move by the attorney
If she happened to be in a sorority, then she would have been an expert in dick to face sounds.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
+1
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Coffee just came out of my nose.
But it was worth it.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
3x, you said it.
The waiting in the bullpen is brutal.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
Just think of the fans of the rest of the 120 or so FBS programs.
Most of them, even if they are bowl bound, have nothing to talk about right now. We, on the other hand, are “luxuriating” in an almost unimaginable wealth of topics.
That’s my repositioning of self in the discourse, spun in the “blessed” direction.
By the way, have Schultz’s lawyers considered his mustache? Coupled with the blue eyes and last name, it really helps animate images of some kind of party functionary in Ingolstadt circa 1936.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Dec 16, 2011 8:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like he could be a Thane in Whiterun
I’ll see myself out now.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
/folds cloth map, places in drawer
I can’t believe I’m single!
A pandemic of cowardice sweeps the nation.
HAHAHA
That game is EXTREMELY addicting.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
I just bought it on Wednesday
And I’ve already put in about 13 hours of game time.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
I have had it since launch day and I don't have that much time in
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
Into the Circle of the Uncommitted with you
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
How is being untrustworthy BETTER than being uncommitted?
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
This is how
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
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@runthedive
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ FUTURE PENN STATE COACH
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
WIKI TIME!
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
#Oversigning4PSU
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
No you wouldn't
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sunday to Sunday I put in 30 hours...
And I work 11-12 hour days at court. I didn’t sleep much that week. I’m getting under control now.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Dec 16, 2011 11:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It has become a daily task of late.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
What is the defense lawyers' W/L record? Good?
Do they play ball control? Or more of a Mike Leach offense?
Stupid Internet! Doesn't work :)
I’ll need to use a pay phone or something to communicate
Just the phone or the booth too?
Seems cumbersome either way.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Sandusky's second attorney is on Twitter...
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That's not even a joke.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
@Karl_Rominger
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Is that one of Rambler's buddies?
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LOL
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
WTF is that?
Is this Dwight Shrute’s other cousin?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Needs more RealTree
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
Why'd you post a picture of Chris?!
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Doppelganger
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I've got nothing to do but read this blog today
Heading to Detroit for the weekend so I’ll be in the car for a few hours.
But let’s be honest, I usually have nothing to do but this read this blog but this time it won’t be on company time.
by lexi1031 on Dec 16, 2011 8:35 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm heading that way in six days.
And I too have nothing better to do today. Gotta take all of those PTO days!
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
I'm hitting the road at noon for the 12 hour drive to Altoona.
Should be a freaking blast!
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
My life in one sentence.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Well I am sitting in school with a bunch of freshman who's parents didn't want them around waiting for 12 o'clock
and on top of all that we have a Christmas assembly at 9, so I will miss most of the updates.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
I really hope that was a literal description of what you're doing.
I can see kids in class, throwing airplanes and making out, while easy sits at the front, laptop open, reading BSD.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
I am in the back of the room with my tablet watching them watch a film on the history of Christmas
And since I teach all boys there better not be any making out happening.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
NTTAWWT
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I hope you're heading west and then . . .
US 220 the whole way.
Remember it’s all about the joy of the journey.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Lol, nope going 77 to 81 through good old Berkley Springs, WV home to the world famous Bambi Leah's
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
I did try that 220 route once
That might be one of the most desolate and lonely roads on the east coast.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
There are people out there who think we still only have 35 states.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
At one point I only could get 1 radio station
and the DJ announced “Bill better get in from the fields there is a big storm coming buddy”. At that point I realized just how all alone I was.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
May be slightly inappropriate for this post...
but I’m really looking forward to a big Coney dog when I get there.
I love the tweet about Cory Giger
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
Someone else on twitter said something like:
I love how Giger tweets he just spoek with so and so, meanwhile he has been sitting in front of me the entire time.
Super surprise.
Giger is a lying asshole.
Who would have thunk it?
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
The hand with the tweezers, right?
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
5 witnesses?
Who are all these people?
Leaders Co-Champions
The five dead hookers Craig James killed?
Sorry… . Sorry.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
by The Heel on Dec 16, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No. Obviously not
they’re dead. At SMU.
365 beers from 365 different breweries in 365 days. Game on.
http://www.blognamedbrew.blogspot.com/
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 16, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Let me tell you how confusing PA's sentencing guidelines are.
It appears that perjury charges carry at most a year in county jail, but are also available for “restrictive intermediate punishments…as a substitute to incarceration.”
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Paterno with "written testimony?" Interesting.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
Ulysses
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Do they read...
the written testimony into the record?
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
War and Peas
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Oh my god- assistant coach mike mcqueary is testifying?
Leaders Co-Champions
Every time I hear "rhythmic slapping sounds," I die a little inside.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
I know. If this was a drinking game, I'd choose bleach.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 16, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
With ammonia chasers.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Possibly Draino
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
The summary of the GJ...
is a bit misleading. It leads you to believe he saw it directly, not through a mirror.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
New information. Stunningly, the presentment is incomplete.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yes but in this case
incomplete in a way that led many people to assume exonerating details. Up to this point, certain very loud people have assumed that any stuff left out of the presentment was left out because it was favorable to various peoples’ defenses.
by M1EK on Dec 16, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Having McQueary see something in a mirror is favorable to everyone's defense in this case.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
No
The theory promoted by a very loud poster on this site is that it was impossible for McQueary to have seen anything based on the layout of the locker room and the showers.
Clearly. But in this thread we were talking about him looking in a mirror.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
No
I started this subthread with this comment:
those who got excited about the locker room layout should calm down?
And I was very clearly responding to this comment.
The summary of the GJ…
is a bit misleading. It leads you to believe he saw it directly, not through a mirror.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Don't you have a job or something?
Go put in a few hours.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Will you get off of it already
Just let things play out before you start beating your chest.
AND GOD BLESS YOU AND I WISH YOU A MERRY FREAKING CHRISTMAS
#nosouthamericanantpiles
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Fine
You were right about everything. They are all guilty. They all are morally reprehensible people who did not do the right thing, and enabled a child abuser.
Hurray! Victory for you!
Feel better?
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
It also leads to believe that it happened from the main player locker room.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
That's gonna hurt recruiting.
I imagine any coach in the country who’s targeting a Penn State recruit probably just added their showers to the tour.
Or, can we presume that MM had a few days to conjure this one up.
Certainly possible. Thanks for playing though.
Also
the line about McQueary staring down Curley and Curley not being willing to look at him? Not good for the theory that McQueary isn’t credible either.
Without seeing it, I don't think you can pass judgment on it.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
You're kidding right?
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
The idea that McQueary is credible because someone tweeted that Curley wouldn't look at him?
Eh.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed..
I’d be upset too, if this isn’t what MM told me 10 years ago. Not saying that’s why, but a possible explination.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Why does it do anything?
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn't actually mean anything,
other than he was 100% coached by the prosecutors on how to conduct himself.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Jt, haven't seen each other around much lately.
How are the tots?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Great, thanks
No idea their dad is feverishly trying to understand how potential predators have so much more power over them.
The world is so colored by our subjectivity.
This has been very challenging for me. I often felt I had a good moderate view of the world that allowed me to recognize that the objective truth is often somewhere in the gaps of our individual consciousness. But this reality, that the Sanduskys subjective world could never fit into those gaps, is so far out there that I have trouble reconciling it with my beliefs.
I suppose we could do well to remind ourselves more often that the people we argue with (say, e.g., on the internet) are so much more like us than the truly crazy (those with a subjectivity off the map). It is the only way to acknowledge that there are TRULY crazy people out there.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
With you!
There are shit-tons of subjects I’m 100% cognizant I’m ignorant on. And 95% of those, I’m also cognizant I don’t give a shit about that ignorance. Like, it doesn’t fit into my other lifestyle choices and priorities, so it just sits out there, and I’m fine with seeing it there peripherally.
But this one? I’m 100% unhappy about my ignorance. I don’t have many activist genes and I’m not typically what you’d describe as a go-getter, but I’m now very interested in attacking this ignorance of childhood sexual abuse. It’s tough, b/c of time resources, but it’s probably good that it’s all happening around Penn State and BSD, which were/are big time sucks on the rest of my life anyway.
Anyway, it’s also one of those subjects where the more you learn, the more mystifying it becomes. And the more doors to other rooms of insufficient knowledge begin appearing. But I’m also buoyed by thoughts of the power of this Internet Age. And by these communities, the PSUs & BSD’s.
Sorry, should have used the sarcasm font
<a href=“http:// ”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySDhxG7gFkk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySDhxG7gFkk">Enjoy this instead
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Shit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySDhxG7gFkk
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Ha. No worries.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Are you Cory Giger?
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
by The Heel on Dec 16, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
+1 for realistic possibility
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Daily Collegian:
McQueary says he could hear the showers running. Thought some actiivity was happening that he didnt want to be a part of.
You have no idea…
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
How are we getting conflicting reports from the reporters tweeting?
Some say 4 ft, some say 6. I know it doesn’t change the meaning of anything, but how does that happen?
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
Wait...
eyewitness versions of events can differ or be unclear????
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Acoustics are probably terrible in the courtroom.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting
McQueary cannot testify that he witnessed intercourse, but believes that’s what was going on. I believe him that that’s what he believed he saw. I also think the fact that he can’t say he saw insertion is pretty much the definition of reasonable doubt.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Well, without the boy's testimony, yes.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 16, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
really? MM doesn't seem to doubt what he saw, even without seeing insertion
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
He doesn't doubt what he saw
But a good defense attorney would make sure a jury does. Like Chris said though, with a victim corroborating or giving a differing account, everything changes.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Didn't mean to sound callous
But there are a lot of cases where witnesses are sure of what they saw and have been incorrect.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I think it'd be different with a victim
Kind of hard to mistake anal rape for anything else.
This does explain a bit about the Costas interview...
And Sandusky trying to make it sound like horsing around with a young boy in a shower was okay.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Can clearly see...
how the GJ summary is a bit misleading.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Don't mean to sound sick but I wonder if they asked MM...
if Jerry looked “aroused” when the two were standing side by side? That would be a very telling sign if sexual activity was happening.
I hate it but
I thought about that too, and about the lack of sounds or protest. Ugh, horrible.
They did...
and MM said he didn’t look down there/didn’t see that.
by BNittsDeMilo on Dec 16, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Whoever is manning @DailyCollegian should just stop now.
Always like 30 seconds late. I think I just saw them say MM was being sworn in…
___
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Daily Collegian:
McQueary completes 5 of 7 passes on the drive for the winning score.
Yeah… they might be a little slow today.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm confused why the shower testimony is necessary.
Why does it matter what he claims he saw in the shower? The charges today are regarding what Schultz and Curley were told about the event, not what actually happened. He could claim he witnessed the entire act, but if he didn’t relay those details to Schultz and Curley, they are innocent.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 9:33 AM EST reply actions
They need to establish exactly what McQueary told Curley that he saw.
Therefore, they need to establish exactly what McQueary saw.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Just because he saw it doesn't mean he spoke about it.
Also, who is the one questioning McQueary about these events? If it’s the defense, I can kind of understand it as if his version of seeing the events differs from what he claims he told Curley and Schultz, it ruins his credibility, but if it’s the prosecution, this makes no sense.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
The prosecution wants to position McQueary as the key witness.
They need to establish that he saw everything, so that when they ask what he told to who, he has fully credibility.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks!
Makes a lot of sense. I appreciate your help.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Probably want to try and convict more through
public outcry thana ctual facts in this case.
I think it's a play by the State
Steal a little thunder back after Sandusky seemingly won the PR battle on Tuesday. Turning the narrative from “well he spared them from testifying” back to “he raped a little boy in the shower.”
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Part of me is very glad the hearing on Tuesday was waived.
Not sure I could’ve taken this twice in one week.
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
In terms of moral blame, McQ's dad has to get some
why didn’t he tell MM to call 911? They could have caught him red-handed…
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Can someone explain how not giving Joe the whole truth is respectful?
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
It's the same reason why you don't curse in front of your grandparents.
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
Odd...
My grandma definitely swears in front of me.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Whole different level
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Still, you asked why.
And that’s exactly why. Is it right? That varies by individual. But that’s the most likely reason.
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
He was clearly just brought in to take notes....right M1eK?
by Btd121 on Dec 16, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We don't need to go down that road here.
Discuss the cops all you want, but let’s keep the in-fighting down.
___
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Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's wait to get all the facts
I keep telling M1EK that, so it applies here.
Then we can make people eat crow.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He is well respected for his shorthand
In addition to overseeing the police and finance, he trained the secretarial pool at PSU from 1943-1955.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
who would have been the right person to bring in?
probably someone with expertise in child abuse to see what mcq’s memory constittued and what road to go down….i’m not sure that schultz qualifies as the right person to bring in, even if the cops reported to him…
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
A cop
would have been the right person to bring in. Not an executive buddy of Curley who had financial oversight of the cops. This has been my position since Day One as well as the position of many other people. Argue with that position all you want, but don’t misrepresent it, other posters in this thread.
by M1EK on Dec 16, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for your well respected opinion
Now let’s let this thing play out in the courtroom.
Then we can get on our soapboxes when we have all the facts.
Thanks M1EK
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Question:
This testimony certainly makes it seem like McQueary spoke with Paterno in euphemisms. As a former English teacher, I’ve seen how easy it is to misunderstand euphemisms. McQueary specifically says he never used words like “anal intercourse” or “rape”. Is this going to help Paterno’s credibility in that 1) he knew something happened, but 2) not exactly what, so 3) reporting it to Curley was a reasonable course of action?
Legally, and to rational people, yes.
But for the general public and the media, it doesn’t change anything.
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
Maybe in some people's eyes (like mine)
Others will say Paterno should have pressed him for more information
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Why the Hell would Paterno want to know more?
Considering he wasnt his employee anymore.
I wouldnt want to hear everything. I would want THE RIGHT PEOPLE to hear everything. The people who could do something about it.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
by The Heel on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's a point that, made prospectively, cannot be quibbled with
But when viewed in hindsight (knowing the right people didn’t take care of it) has been attacked as irrelevant.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Nope
“fondling, or something of a sexual nature” is enough to be required to report (and Paterno did report, anyways; the issue many have is that he apparently didn’t follow up sufficiently later on when it was clear nothing happened to Sandusky).
Nothing "apparent" about it.
Rather, we don’t know if and what he did to follow up.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, of course
but it’s assumed by many that he didn’t do enough to follow up. Just correctly framing the discussion here.
Understood.
I will say that McQuary’s testimony today is troubling in his OWN lack of follow up. If Paterno’s actions were the same, I am infinitely more troubled by these events.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
McQueary’s lack of followup is actually more troubling now than it was before I heard this testimony. I still give him some slack for being the low man on the totem pole, but I do not think he did enough either.
I gave him more slack given that I don't know what the mind would do when
confronted with the image of actual sodomy of a small child. I think even that slack has to be downplayed with his account here today.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
There are tons of assumptions. Im so God Damned sick of assumptions.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Spring break.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
the meeting
call was before, the meeting was set up for days later
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
Of course there are going to be objections.
This testimony would be littered with hearsay without them. Don’t get excited when Curley/Schultz atty do their job.
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I thought there were tweets saying McQueary did NOT hear slapping sounds
and now he is saying he did. Is this twitter messing up or what?
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
He heard two or three when he came into the building.
Then none when he looked in.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Seems as though he couching a lot of his comments in a way to avoid getting hit with perjury charges at some point in the future if this doesn’t all check out, yet still give the State exactly what they want to hear.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Reading those subjunctives in tweets
I was guessing the questions posed were hypothetical in linguistic nature.
Were they not? Was use of subjunctives like this (‘would have’) by Mcq his choice alone?
Would not be surprised for them to be his alone
I’m sure he’s lawyered up to CYA and been advised how to answer those questions to meet that goal.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Were the question phrased as you suggest, it would certainly raise an objection, I believe.
However, if it is only inserted into the testimony, then the defense may just attack it in a [whatever this hearing’s version of a closing} argument. The only other option would be to move to strike it which, without a jury, may not be as necessary as at trial.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Is anyone else annoyed by the whole "didn't tell them details" thing?
In his own testimony he said he didn’t see intercourse, only body positioning. Now he says he didn’t tell anyone details, just that it was extremely sexual. What details did he have to tell? He admitted he didn’t actually see anything, only saw a situation and speculated. It’s not like his speculation would be enough to consider it fact.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 9:51 AM EST reply actions
Making my blood boil
I have to imagine if he used explicit terms, someone, his father, Joe, someone, would have called the cops and ended this whole thing then and there.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Could he use those terms, though?
He admittedly didn’t see insertion, and I bet part of the thought process in ‘02 was that they couldn’t prove Jerry was raping the boy.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
but even if there wasn't insertion, it's still sexual abuse, right?
isn’t it a crime for a man to be in a shower naked with an unrelated boy touching him?
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I have no idea.
Should be if it isn’t. But what could MM explicitly testify to? Nothing more than apparently some groping/hugging.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
and not one of the charges against Sandusky for this victim?
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Exactly
Talking to the people close to you isn’t the same thing as being in a courtroom. He should have clearly communicated to SOMEBODY just how serious he thought it was, even that meant speculating. But I have to remember that I’ve never been in those shoes. So who knows what i would have done? All I know is this sucks.
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Question I'd like answered: who brought Schultz into this?
Was it Paterno or Curley?
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Me too
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
been reported both ways
but to assume Paterno didn’t know he was involved would be a pretty large assumption
OT here
But if I was in college Anna Orso would be getting asked out to some dinners at the Corner Room
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
If I was back there
You’d have some competition.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
I'd take her to Spats
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Well I see your Spats and raise you V&S subs
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Ummm, upon careful consideration
I think I may have misread this and have you confused for someone else.
Can you help a brotha out? Are you a dude or a chica?
Hey, Caroline Roberto is a Pittsburgh lawyer.
Stay out of my city, Curley!
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Friday, March 1, 2002, apparently was the Friday before Spring Break
To think all of that was going on while I was en route to Toronto to do other unspeakable acts.
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I was 12...
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
Did this all end with 5 dead Canadian hookers?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
No, but I did wake up in a pool of my own blood.
So there’s that.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Where you a presumed dead hooker for someone else then?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Ran into Craig James at the CN Tower. The rest is a blur.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Ahh now I am getting some clarity
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't have been Craig James...
he would have drank up all the blood and left no trace.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
Only if it was unicorn blood
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
+1 for the Sorcerer's Stone ref
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I seriously hope some of this stuff catches on during his campaign
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure he's already set up
his reputation.com profile.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
i went to toronto that year too
half of us were 21, the other half were 20
DO WE KNOW EACH OTHER?
WERE YOU ON MY TRIP?!?
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I spent that Spring Break in my dorm sucking down ice cream...
It would’ve been right after my ex-fiancee and I split up.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
that was senior year for me
stayed in state college during a pretty big snowstorm. got high as a kite every day and night on west college. good times.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Haha, west college.
fucking hippies.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Crap, I've got to drive up to Baton Rouge.
Baton Rouge = Jersey City with a southern accent, but without the redeeming proximity to NYC.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Hey, I used to live in Jersey City
the Heights ain’t bad. Cheapest rent you can find that has a 20 min ride to Port Authority, for sure.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Daily Collegian just tweeted...
Joe Paterno hired to succeed Rip Engle as head coach of Penn State
by danpsu97 on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions 6 recs
I like where this subthread is headed.
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Daily Collegian:
Agricultural College of Pennsylvania made official name of school.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Gotta rec.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Damn, this shit's got me trippin again
The whole ‘what would I have done’ line of mental gymnastics…. I’m physically smh right now.
Nah. She's just trying to establish that everything McQueary thought he saw was concocted in his head.
And that he couldn’t have possibly had the details he says he had to give to Curley and Schultz.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
by Adam Collyer on Dec 16, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Anybody else think they're gearing up here to throw Paterno under the bus?
Not really seeing where the Paterno dialogue is going other than to place more blame on him than on Schultz & Curley.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 10:09 AM EST reply actions
I had the same thought
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
That's exactly where I think this is headed
And it is filling me with rage.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
But McQueary spoke directly to Curley and Schultz
that makes it tougher.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Seems more about the follow-up.
If McQ says he only saw Curley 4-5 times/year, but saw Paterno every day, it makes it seem like Paterno had more opportunity to follow up, as opposed to Curley.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Follow up with McQueary?
Who cares. Whoever’s job it was to follow up with Schultz/authorities of some other type is who is important.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, she is not looking good right now, based on the tweets coming out
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Second awkward post title from Btd121...
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well, not right now anyway.
I’m at work. However, this weekend is totally free.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Is this the same attorney who was shrieking and screaming to the news cameras when this story first broke?
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
don't know
how about implying the mirrors would be steamed….etc…get to it
Good point...
but a double edged sword – a hot shower would result in a foggy mirror, while a cold shower would imply shrinkage.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
"THE NY METS ARE MY FAVORITE SQUADRON!"
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by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 16, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
They know how to throw the speedball
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Wonder if "contrived a visual" is actual testimony.
Because that’s not helping the cause.
@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
#OccupyESPN
I never liked him
since that time he killed Apollo Creed in the ring.
by PSU Mudder on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That should come in...
at the full trial, assuming there is one.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, don't be surprised if one of their other witnesses opens the door to the Dr.
We’ll see how well they are prepped.
I'll defer to you..
on that.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 16, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
It's interesting
it’s definitely relevant to what McQ was telling people in the first days…but not really all that relevant to what he told Curley and Schultz, which should presumably stand on its own.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 16, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Have to disagree.
Given the low bar of relevance, certainly the account he gave others around that time is relevant to what he told others. Now there may be other rules prohibiting it, but it is at least relevant.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is possible she thinks the chargs are bs
and she is building a record that can’t be appealed…we shall see.
Is Dr. Dranov real or a twitter concoction?
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
I haven't been able to read every comment...
so I apologize if I’m being redundant.
But, NPR is live tweeting from the courtroom if anyone is interested.
Fan is short for "fanatic" nimrod.
#THWG. Love, North Ave. Trade School
Ha, audsnyder just chimed in with an update on Bradley's interview
Very focused
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
i'm getting annoyed at her use of twitlong
i don’t want to have to click a link every time you tweet, just so you can cheat and go over the 140 character limit. that defeats the purpose of twitter.
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
by dbl5030 on Dec 16, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If corroboration is needed
the judge may be making sure she doesn’t give prosecution something to appeal by letting them talk about Dranov.
Never used "anal" or "sodomy"
but GJ report says “anal intercourse” so that’s not right if he did not use “anal”
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
as long as their aren't quote marks, i think the GJ report is still accurate
regardless of his diction, that’s what he described.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Huge problem with the role of a 'summary' in these matters
It’s a built-in re-characterization of testimony. While a necessary part of of the judicial process, these Grand Jury summary presentments remain grossly problematic in the other court of growing import: Public Opinion.
Correct.
Which is why they aren’t public documents.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Well, why they aren't intended to be public documents
If leaking them is or is going to be a common practice in the future, their whole purpose & style needs to be reworked.
Specifics are everything in a perjury charge
and the defense of JS will demand it too.
The GJ Report should be accurate and that is what was used to flame the media frenzy
“MM saw anal intercourse and ran to call daddy” is the key element in that railroad job
Curley’s attorney is doing a good job on “recollection” and language.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
It's a semantics thing, of growing import in this Information Age
The GJ Report should be accurate and that is what was used to flame the media frenzy
Just that sentence contains too many ambiguities to be used for PR justice. All of this you’ve noted in previous posts, so not quibbling against you, just hammering the point….
Spak noted quote marks, you noted ‘report’ and ‘accurate.’ How can a re-characterization of testimony (indicated by quote marks in a written version) ever be ‘accurate’? We still have no idea who the person was doing the re-characterization, actually penning/editing the summary. Was it the DA? Was it a clerk/admin assistant writing the first draft, which was then edited/approved by the DA?
The whole thing is just too sloppy to be used in the way it’s been used in the PR court. I’ll be curious to watch its evolution in the criminal court over the next 10-15 years.
*(again, I know you know all this)
Always wondered about how a tall man could fit with boy
Boy was standing up
MinkNate:
Boy’s head was up to pectoral muscle, McQ says
[via Twitter]
It makes no physical sense for anal intercourse
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I'm not saying anything about innocence or guilt
But I’m 100% with you aura. It makes absolutely no sense
Just thinking the same thing
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
More lack of evidence of rape
McQ could not tell if Jerry had an erection. “I don’t look or stare down there.”
[via Twitter]
10:54
audsnyder4:
RT @NateBauerBWI: Doesn’t know if Sandusky had an erection. "I don’t know. I don’t look and stare down there."
[via Twitter]
10:54
Capitol_Ideas:
McQ says he did not see pain on the boys face"
[via Twitter]
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
This section makes the idea of anal intercourse implausible
His head came up to JS pectoral muscle
He was standing upCapitol_Ideas:
Was the boy bent over or standing up? Standing up.
MinkNate
I saw a lot of the boy but not all of the boy. He was not bent over.
JS is 6 feet and the boy around 4 feet so standing up JS crotch would come in around the middle of the boy’s back. But MM did not look down there?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Mike looks bad with these answers I think
audsnyder4:
McQueary “yes, they were separated and he was still with Mr. Sandusky when I left.” boy was still in shower but about 4 ft apart from jerry
[via Twitter]
10:56
sganim:
McQueary says yes when asked if he left the boy naked in the shower with #Sandusky
[via Twitter]
10:56
roxburynews:
RT @inkyamy: Farrell you never said anything to boy that night? Mcq no Farrell you left boy with Sandusky and did not call police? Mcq yes
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
As STAR WITNESS for prosecution
this is pretty bad given that the defense doesn’t get to do all it would like to do
I think I could impeach this guy pretty easily questioning the size difference and the boy standing up
along with leaving the boy alone in the shower naked with JS
and the fact the boy didn’t seem to be distressed.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
You mean
like you impeached the guy before on the locker room and shower layout question?
by M1EK on Dec 16, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're an A-1 self-loving jagoff.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
BSD should look into and "IGNORE THIS MEMBER" option
for the comment section
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 16, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That way we could avoid this kind of sideshow
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 16, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I want to hear what Curley and Shultz say.
Did they investigate at all, what did they say to Paterno/McQ about any investigation. So far it seems what McQ said is what most people thought happened up to that point.
That will certainly be the most revealing part of this case in regards to Paterno's "moral failure"...
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
And the part of the focus of whatever GJ testimony of Paterno they read in today.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
IM Starting to wonder WHAT THE HELL DID HE ACTUALLY SEE!?
He didnt see fondling. He didnt see any touching… What the Hell did YOU SEE!? Just SAY IT ALREADY!!!
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
He didn't see anything. He speculated what was happening based off of the circumstances.
That is why this is all ridiculous. He says he never reported any “details”, yet he didn’t have any details to actually report. All he could do is paint the situation sans any actions and hope the speculation would be enough.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I know that sounds bad. But for us to find out what the Hell is going on here
And who knew what I think you gotta know what he saw because he unless hes lying he cant tell them more than what he saw himself. Everything seems like assumptions. I think. Maybe. I know it was sexual but I didnt see any sexual contact.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Well I can't do this anymore.
I’ll be back later to catch any updates. Keep it civil, y’all.
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Quick rip M1EK a new one
I will bring the honey
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Mr. Easy
I love you bro, but your PR is taking a hit with these continued digs…
As one of the oldheads on the FOS wrestling board says:
But that’s jess my opinion.
Off Topic
But there is a TON OF SMOKE with Mark Richt and penn state on Google news right now.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
More media coverage of the Wiki Scam
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
#1 Headline on ESPN Right Now
McQueary: I told Paterno of Sandusky, boy.
Fuck them.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
and the article is wrong.
Says McQueary told Paterno, Curley and Schultz he saw anal intercourse. Fucking unbelievable.
I just read.
Here's their intro paragraphs (so nobody has to give them page views)
A Penn State assistant football coach says he believes he saw former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky sexually molesting a boy and later told coach Joe Paterno and two Penn State officials about it.
Mike McQueary, speaking for the first time in public about the 2002 encounter in a Penn State locker room, testified Friday that he truly believes what he saw was intercourse between Sandusky and a 10- or 12-year-old boy.
He also says he reported it to coach Joe Paterno the next day, and later talked to administrators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz.
He says he told them he saw something “extremely sexual.” He says he told them he thought that some kind of intercourse was going on.
It does go on to say “McQueary said he did not give Paterno explicit details of what he believed he’d seen, saying he wouldn’t have used terms like sodomy or anal intercourse out of respect for the longtime coach.” but only after 5 paragraphs talking about how Paterno, Schultz and Curley were told about Sandusky sodomizing a kid.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
What's even funnier......
is that what Schaap says in the video is wrong too
Schaap is a total asshat...
He has his job and his career because of his late father. His father was widely respected, but Jeremy is equally a douche…and that’s essentially the consensus from athletes in the biz.
Are you fucking kidding me?
After all the fucked up already… ?
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
ESPN is just making false assumptions
when everyone else is reporting the actual words coming out of McQ’s mouth. There are no basis in what McQ is saying to what they are reporting. Instead of A → B it’s A → 6
You're right
My comparison could be somehow, in some remote world, be proven to lead from one to the other.
I sure hope they meant
McQueary: I told Paterno (no great details) of Sandusky, boy.
Fuck those shitheads.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Dec 16, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
They had that headline written five weeks ago
And as we all know, it’s damn near impossible to edit on the internet.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Aw, who cares
They’ve chosen sides. They want more eyeballs watching their network, not worry about reporting accurately.
by Jitterbug on Dec 16, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
McQ believes he did not say 'we should call police' he thought schultz WAS the police
Well how about that.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Dec 16, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Shultz's Lawyer is killing MM right now
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
This is a dagger
(Shultz lawyer: Best judgement was leaving naked boy in shower with Sandusky?) I was sure the act was over.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
The line of questioning about not reporting it to the police
with MMs response “because it was delicate in nature, and I tried to use my best judgement” is ugly for MM. I’m not sure what was considered in the convo between MM, dad, and Dranov, but best judgement sure didn’t result from it.
Daily Collegian:
Do not be alarmed, but the British have burned the White House.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Columbus to attempt to find Westward route to India
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Good luck with that man
World being flat and all.
Egyptians propose pyramid-type structure.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's clearly bullshit
He set the police budget, held bake sales and crocheted Spanier’s scarves; that was the extent of his duties.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Black Caucus riots?
Can someone shed somelight on what exactly he is referencing? I thought I was well versed in Penn State riot history, but this draws a blank for me.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Wasn't there a sit-in
during a Blue-White game a number of years ago?
Yes. Also, there was a sit-in
in Old Main (or maybe the HUB). Not sure which McQ is referring to.
365 beers from 365 different breweries in 365 days. Game on.
http://www.blognamedbrew.blogspot.com/
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 16, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe there was an extra funny
joke told around the water cooler and a minion said, ah man that’s a riot. Schultz – said hey police dudes, get over here, you gotta here this one.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
I dont want to talk about the elephant in the room but...
Doesn’t know if Sandusky had an erection. "I don’t know. I don’t look and stare down there."
You got close enough to see there was sexual activity going on and that the hid had no pubic hair but you dont notice if the guy has a boner or not that standing that close to him?
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Mr. Burgundy, you have a *massive* erection
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, uh, it's the pleats...
the pleats in the pants. It’s an optical illusion. I was just about to take them back… to the pants store. Oh this is embarrassing.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I will admit
To go from the hailing his glorious defense that intercepted Intercepteverde five times to reading Twitter feeds about the status of his erection has been quite a 25-year journey for me.
That tallywacker had a mole on it!
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
All schaap just talked about was what mm told Joe.....
it is a hearing about schultz and curley god they suck
Believe deep down in your heart that you are destined to do great things
Still will be reported as PSU cover up
People are horrible. And don’t forget, child molesters are….i can’t even describe..
Paterno and his administration
Were so clever they covered it up by not telling people to not tell people. See how devious Joe Paterno is? /ESPN
ESPN: Paterno killed five hookers and framed the unimpeachable and brilliant commentator, Craig James
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
And framed Nixon for Watergate.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure he also turncoated and helped the British.
Arnold was just a fall guy.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
The best of both worlds!
You can blame JoePa for coverups AND call him old!
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
If they wanted to cover it up they should have taped it and sent it to ESPN.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
by The Heel on Dec 16, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I can't rec this from my iPhone app, otherwise I would
by danpsu97 on Dec 16, 2011 1:05 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Facts you want? the media needs no facts
the conspiracy is to not tell people not to talk
that was the devious genius of the cover up plot
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
In the scholarly literature on argument from conspiracy, there is a concept known as "The Principle of Reversal,"
which essentially states that lack of evidence for a cover-up only amounts to proof of how deeply embedded and devious the cover-up actually is.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Like those guys that weren't on the grassy knoll
but their bodies are buried in the hills outside Teralingua?
Question: You’re sure about that?
Answer: “still got the shovel”
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
That's from an awful Mark Wahlberg movie, isn't it?
I just can’t remember which one.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Real po-lice on the stand!
365 beers from 365 different breweries in 365 days. Game on.
http://www.blognamedbrew.blogspot.com/
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 16, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
Ha ha ha
according to who? Just a rent a cop.
Mostly just
cracking myself up. On The Wire, they often make reference to good cops as being “real po-lice” or “natural po-lice”.
Freamon was natural po-lice.
365 beers from 365 different breweries in 365 days. Game on.
http://www.blognamedbrew.blogspot.com/
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 16, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Well this is impossible to tailgate to.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
From the descriptions
it almost seems like maybe the same thing was happening.
Same thing different description
In 1998
annaorso:
Harmon said 1998 report was that he hugged the child in the shower and “touched his rear” but there was nothing overtly sexual.
[via Twitter]
in 2002
6’ man behind 4’ boy standing up with arms somewhere is certain “intercourse” (with the spine I guess)
reported as extremely sexual?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
It's disgusting either way.
May not be a crime, but something sick in my opinion.
No doubt - but is it criminal?
If it wasn’t criminal in 1998 why would Schultz think it criminal in 2002??
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Wow, so when a report was filed in 1998, the chief went to his BOSS and reported it.
And his boss was Schultz. Amazing.
by Btd121 on Dec 16, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What's amazing
is that you actually think this is some kind of a comeback to “Schultz wasn’t a cop”.
Well I guess there is nothing that will change your mind. Good to know.
by Btd121 on Dec 16, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No
The boss of the chief of police in my town is the city manager. The city manager is not a cop.
What we learned here is nothing will change your mind.
Your town sucks then.
What the hell just happened?
by Pete the Streak on Dec 16, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Can't change what you don't have Btd
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Sigh.
Uncivil.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
See, this is where it becomes clear that you are trolling
the import of that statement has to do with Schultz’s failure to do more about the situation, as regardless of whether he was a “cop” or not it establishes that he knew of a pattern of behavior. It has nothing to do with McQueary or Paterno thinking Schultz was a cop.
by PSU Mudder on Dec 16, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
My bad, then
/willing to back off when new information comes to light
You're slipping.
That post title was not ambiguously dirty.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Days like this are kinda rough on me.
I’ve become more involved with the sports blogging community because it takes my mind off of work. I am currently working on a federal study regarding crimes against children, including kidnapping, rape, and death.
So, if anyone is offended by any jokes I’m making or that I’m making jokes at all, I apologize. I just need something to chuckle about between the topic I’m working on and the Penn State stuff.
Don't worry, we're all in the same boat.
In order to make it through all of this, it’s going to require a very thick skin and the ability to find a way to humor yourself. Personally, I’m enjoying the Collegian jokes. I’m waiting for them to report on the fall of Rome. I heard it’s coming any day now. If only Caesar were still around.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Caeser was murdered by Paterno. Brutus was framed by Paterno.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I come to bury Paterno - not to praise him
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.
Wow.
Not snarky here, completely serious; your quote just actually just hit me really hard. That sums up for me why I wanted Paterno to resign when this came to light – I am afraid the good he did will be interred with his bones now.
If Paterno had resigned...
He would have been crucified as “admitting guilt” by resigning. Paterno’s fate with public opinion was written the very first time Jerry Sandusky abused a child.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Do you think his resignation would have really changed the media/public perception?
I’m thinking not. I think the “good he did” would be interred either way. At least, based on the way many, many people are reacting in a mostly emotional way. Because children were damaged and he was aware in some form or fashion, no matter how slight, people will damn him, rightly or wrongly.
HEY M1EK
Harmon reported to Schultz during stint as director of police
Harmon said he had regular contact with Schultz. At times, he would notify Schultz about investigations in police dept.
What were you saying about Schultz again?
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
More testimony
Any serious incident on campus involving a criminal act or health and safety concerns would have resulted in reporting it to Shultz.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
by MainLion on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I love PSU and want to see the University exonerated
However I have to back M1EK here. I’ve followed the meme on whether or not Schultz was a cop, and the fact of the matter is he is not. Period. If you saw a guy passed out drunk in a pile of vomit in the HUB parking deck, do you call the Director of UHS? Is that the same as calling an ambulance?
It isn’t. Speaking to the appointed administrator is a halfway move that allows for some additional “wiggle room” vs. calling 911 and getting a time stamped police report. It implies thought and allows for more control over the story and the procedures. This is a fact. At the very least, this smells like “professional courtesy,” which we can all understand when powerful people are working on a second hand account of a crime committed.
McQueary stole all of the initiative when he pussed out and called his dad. he stole it from everyone; because from there on out, everyone is getting an hours or days old second hand account of something terrible being done by a guy they’ve all known for 20+ years. Sandusky created this situation with his vile perversions; McQueary created the opportunity for a failure in investigation by passing the buck to the administrators when he is the ONLY witness.
by SkellerDweller06 on Dec 16, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
See above.
In my town, the boss of the chief of police is the city manager. The city manager is not a cop. I would not report a crime to the city manager.
Thats because compared to Paterno you are a nobody.
And you dont have access to a guy like Shultz. As the testimony is showing clearly is that Shultz WAS OBVIOUSLY MORE than just a figure head.
“Harmon reported to Schultz during stint as director of police
Harmon said he had regular contact with Schultz. At times, he would notify Schultz about investigations in police dept.”
And more importantly the chief says:
“Any serious incident on campus involving a criminal act or health and safety concerns would have resulted in reporting it to Shultz.”
Shultz is the top of the line. YOU dont go to him because you dont have that choice. Paterno doesnt go to a cop on the street with second hand information because:
1. Police dont make reports on second hand information.
2. If ANYONE could get something going here, you would think it would be Shultz considering the testimony.
The testimony is the testimony. If you know more than the chief of police does here M1EK… please elaborate.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
You are stretching.
If an actual crime was in progress or just recently committed, and an executive in another city department witnessed it, I would expect the executive to call 911, not to call the city manager.
Unless, of course, they wanted to allow for the option of NOT investigating it.
Note: I don’t think McQueary wanted to not investigate it. I think he didn’t have any clue what to do. This is more in response to Paterno.
I'm honestly am trying to understand your point
You said: “If an actual crime was in progress or just recently committed, and an executive in another city department witnessed it, I would expect the executive to call 911, not to call the city manager.”
I’m confused in how this pertains more to Paterno—when he actually didn’t witness a crime himself.
Would you expect an executive in another city department to call 911 if they were told a day later that one of there interns saw what they preceived to be unlawful behavior last night?
by Jeannine Pinaula on Dec 16, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they thought about what MM was saying
Didn’t “look down there”
Saw no erection
Boy was not distressed or in pain
and then they thought about a 6’man and a 4’ boy both standing up
and they figured out that the suspicion wouldn’t merit any investigation
so they just let Curley call JS and get the boy’s phone # and confirmed he was not molested.
and since they had no more in 2002 except ear witness suspicions of an anatomical improbability understood that involving police in something that would not result in charges was waste of time.
suspicion of unlawful behavior isn’t worth much given the known observations over a few seconds. SO it appears there is no point for you to get from the stretching Homer.
other than 911 might cite you for using emergency to report an improbable suspicion with no victim calling for help. A victim the earwitness left alone in the shower with the suspected offender.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I can see both arguments here...
But I just cannot agree that going to Schultz was not the same as going to the police.
Granted, if it’s an emergency, you call 911, but this was not an emergency. Different set of circumstances.
Its like saying you wouldnt go to Bill Gates if your Windows Op wasnt working.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Instead of engaging, please just enjoy some soothing sounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySDhxG7gFkk
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I want to hear Paterno's testimony
The Shultz and Curly. Lets get this moving people.
Will Paterno Testify?
Or will they enter his notes?
by dontcallmescooter on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
You'll be waiting a long time for Schultz and Curley.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Do we know when the court takes recess for the holidays?
I thought typically they went on leave for a couple of weeks right around now.
That depends on the county...
Most counties only take a couple days. Since CHristmas is on a Sunday, chances are good there will only be a few days. It’s not like Congress, who takes 2/3 of the year off.
Courts here are closed Monday.
But that’s pretty much it.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Determining what role Shultz played is super important in this.
So this is extremely important.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
The non-crime after investigation in 98 informed Schultz's action in 2002
11:29
Capitol_Ideas:
RT @DailyCollegian: Harmon says they investigated for weeks in 1998; children and youth services were involved. #PSUCharges
[via Twitter]
11:29
MinkNate:
Harmon said 98 investigation was closed because it was determined no crime was committed
Since and investigation of similar circumstances resulted in no criminal charges in 98 is it logical to assume that the same thing in 2002 would end the same way?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Not logical
If he knew about the past report, it’s not really logical to assume all future reports will be unfounded. Schultz’ guard should have been up. He seems like the one who’s in the deepest hot water at this point.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
by NewJackCity on Dec 16, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Not all future reports
just those of a similar nature.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Thus far, I still think Schultz is coming off as the having the largest lapse in judgment
Regardless of whether or not he’s a “cop.”
ALways seemed like that was the case.
Was clear people thought he would be able to get the cops involved. If he didn’t investigate, or do a thourough investigation, I can’t imagine…..
It may be BUT
Under the law they would still be required to report it and have it investigated. Granted the statute of limitations has long run on that charge and I see no way the judge doesn’t dismiss it today, but you never know.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Yeah
This doesn’t eliminate the need for Schultz to get Harmon (if he was still the chief) involved in 2002. They should have “struck while the iron was hot” and maybe gotten additional information that would have stopped this. Then again, they might have done three or four weeks of work and again decided that no crime occurred. But, I don’t think Schultz should have made that decision w/o consulting the police chief or even the DA.
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
I'm really curious to see
if the 2002 incident was reported to Children Youth and Families…or as a Childline report…it appears this was done in 1998 and investigated. If this was the same in 2002, then there are ALOT of people involved and didn’t see anything worth pursuing pertaining to this particular incident
"That's why you don't play! 'Cuz you're no good!" -Joe Paterno
Looks like they opened the door Btd
Discussion took place in the elder McQueary’s office. John Dranov, friend and boss , was also present.
[via Twitter]
11:37
roxburynews:
McQuery’s dad states he spoke w/Gary Schultz about Sandusky incident. Dr. Dranov present at that discussion, too. #psu
[via Twitter]
11:37
andrewmcgill:
Sounds like this meeting took place after Mike spoke to Schultz.
[via Twitter]
11:37
MinkNate:
John worked with Schultz, was busines acquaintance. Had meeting at his office with schultz and dranov
[via Twitter]
11:37
OnwardState:
McQueary’s father says he worked with Gary Schultz, and he spoke to him about the shower incident with John Dranov. #PSUCharges
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
This will be interesting.
If the judge continues to deny the defense the ability to talk about dranov, I think he has already made up his mind that he is going to toss the charges.
The prosecution really doesn't want to hear about Dranov
Judge isn’t allowing testimony about conversation b/w McQueary and Dr. Dranov
guess they know he will seriously damage MM’s cred
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
not from the prosecutions POV - they don't want any Dranov
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I know that.
BUt the judge not letting them get into doesn’t sit well with me.
Farrell getting the 'watered down' thing going
seems to be good at this idea that Dad was moderating MM’s more ‘hysterical’ and graphic description. Schultz thought MM was ‘overreaching’?
Capitol_Ideas:
JM never told Schultz it was a crime, it was at least inappropriate
roxburynews:
Farrell asking John McQuery abt mtg w/Schultz & Dranov. McQuery felt he told Schultz enough for him know sexual aspect of son’s accusation.
KevinHornePSU:
Every recollection down the chain, the intensity of “sexual in nature” keeps getting watered down from McQueary’s story.
roxburynews:
Rt @Capitol_Ideas JM never told Schultz it was a crime, it was at least inappropriate.
andrewmcgill:
Dad never used word “sodomy,” “sexual assault,” “fondle” in meeting with Schultz.
Capitol_Ideas:
Farrell running down a list of graphic descriptions JM might have used. He said he used none of them.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
This is really getting interesting
I know the reports said the Defense wasn’t calling any witnesses, but you really have to wonder now if Dr. Dranov is going on that stand today.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Is this appealable? Seems like it would be?
I don’t know much about PA crim law though.
Homer might be upset to see this Btd
audsnyder4:
“CYS, as you know can not actually file charges. … In this case Penn State police dept. had jurisdiction,” Sassano said.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Lol
So there was a force field of jurisdiction!
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 12:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Bigger Red takes the stand
This should be interesting.
I remember seeing Mike's dad at PSU basketball games
He had courtside seats right in front of the student section. He’d always say hi to us standing behind his seats when he’d come in before the games.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
by NewJackCity on Dec 16, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Wow,
there are some useless twitter feeds up there.
They did kill the Odom for Paul trade.
He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu
Forming alliances with the Dominion...
Enslaving Bajor…
Same ol’ same ol’…
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 16, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
But, the Daily Collegian is on top of things:
New testimony indicates Lizzy Proctor may be involved in witchraft. #BurnAtTheStake
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Maybe MM is just a horrible observer and communicator
Which would explain our inept offense and his perpetual sideline arguments with Paterno.
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 16, 2011 11:45 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
OT
Mike Leach is on Dan Patrick talking about craig james
Believe deep down in your heart that you are destined to do great things
/Fold Hands
“Please say something about the five….please say something about the five….”
Mike Leach wouldn’t vote for Craig James
Believe deep down in your heart that you are destined to do great things
My guess is.....
he won’t be able to vote for/against. Unless he keeps his primary residence in TX!
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
Apparently we're beyond the point of defending Paterno
What Big Red confirmed:
-He gave Paterno a very water-downed version of what he “thought” he saw
-On that point, Big Red believed it to be sexual in nature, but he wasn’t certain. Please tell me I’m not the only one who noticed this from the twitter streams.
-Paterno handled this by following up Curley. THEY CALLED THE SECOND MILE TO REPORT THIS.
Now the disconnect seems to be between Harmon and Schultz.
I’m upset that Big Red doesn’t have rock solid information that could convict an alleged pedophile. But what more are we expecting from Paterno at this point? He followed up with Red personally. He did what he had to do with the given information. That is a watered-down description of what Big Red perceived.
We're beyond defending him
to intelligent people who can read
I agree
but it will not be a universal opinion. I wonder if McQ and his dad think Paterno did what was right, or enough. and wonder if they should have done more.
MM testified today that he believes Joe handled it correctly
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
I've been holding back waiting to see what his GJ testimony read into the record says
But I think so far it is clear that Joe certainly has no legal responsibility in the criminal sense at this juncture, and if it shows he followed up with Curley or Schultz I think the moral responsibility was satisfied too.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Nope
If one of my employees comes to be and reports an uncomfortable situation involving a former employee, I just assume that I am responsible for taking those accusations of, what, inappropriateness, to Chief Wigum.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Dec 16, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
On that point, Big Red believed it to be sexual in nature, but he wasn’t certain. Please tell me I’m not the only one who noticed this from the twitter streams.
You’re reaching on this. McQueary wasn’t 100% sure it was intercourse but was positive it was sexual in nature.
Ok.
He saw JS standing behind the kid right? And he believed it to be sexual in nature.
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 16, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Standing up behind a kid who was standing up
find a kid whose head reaches your pectoral muscle and see how that looks.
where is your crotch compared to his back?
How does that seem “sexual”? MM said he did not observe an erection because he “did not look down there” if he had he might have seen that his suspicion was not possible anatomically
note crotch to mid lower back?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Disclaimer: Please do not try this at home.
…find a kid whose head reaches your pectoral muscle and see how that looks.
where is your crotch compared to his back?
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I get what you're saying
and that’s sort of my point.
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 16, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I know - just trying to get a visualization
so we can observe the impossibility
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Even if MM saw the boy "bent over"
JS would have had to “contort” himself for penile penetration, though certainly he could have violated the boy with his finger or soap or something.
Did I read a tweet that said toe? Ugh!
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
This pains me to even write
but is it possible JS was holding the boy up and then let go when he heard McQueary at the locker? Obviously, what happened before McQueary had a visual doesn’t matter, but that might explain the anatomical disparity.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
ESPN just topped themselves.
The headline is now “McQueary: I fully conveyed Sandusky event.”
Yeah, except for using terms like “rape”, “crime”, “sodomy”, “intercourse”… you know, anything that would fully convey AN ACTUAL CRIME.
Fuck you ESPN, fuck you.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I don’t look or stare down there.
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Dec 16, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Every Salacious Possibility Noted?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
The report McQueary's speculations as fact.
The article hasn’t changed from the one prior (that I noticed). They’re still claiming McQueary witnessed “anal intercourse” and immediately reported it in full detail to Paterno, Schultz and Curley. It is only after 5 paragraphs of them stating his speculation as fact that they address him never actually saying intercourse or sodomy.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Well to be fair theey just picked an eye-catching quote
They could have also just picked out “McQueary’s Dad: Thrusting.”
I just think they don't understand the difference between fact and speculation.
It surprises the hell out of me how they report things as fact that are clearly speculation. I know they’re going for shock value and everything so they get more views and better ratings, but even with that motive, they state speculation as fact more often than not. It’s sickening that everything McQueary says amounts to him actually seeing nothing, and only inferring the events he’s alleging, yet they turn around and state he witnessed the things he is alleging through inference AND reported them entirely when his testimony also says he didn’t do that either. I get that they need to condense things down when it comes to headlines, but what they are doing is borderline outright lying. They’re not even spinning the truth, they’re practically fabricating it.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Dec 16, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Journalists will continue to walk this line until
someone gets there a$$es sued off for defamation.
Sorry, I was speaking in generalities
not to this case specifically. But no one in SC would have the guts to ever accuse ESPN and the others.
Ahh time for the Grand Jury testimony
Now we’ll see if there is enough to make the perjury charges be held to court.
And more importantly, what Joe said.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
scrappled:
"@TanyaFosterCBS: John McQueary is excused. He grins at Schultz on the way out and mouths something.. Schultz doesn’t respond. Blank stare."
[via Twitter]
Interesting.
hammered Schultz being equal to police
and now is going opposite direction for failure to report charge
Best argument for Schultz & Curley
MM saw nothing actionable – no penetration, could not see hands
MM saw 6’ man behind 4’ boy standing up with head to JS pectoral muscle. – or crotch to mid back
Saw no erection
Boy was not anxious or distressed or in pain
Despite his suspicion – strong suspicion – there was not enough eyewitness evaluation in the few seconds of observation to sustain any charge or even an official investigation.
Curley called JS and got boy’s number – perhaps they called the boy & his guardian.
but there was nothing worthy of involving police
Mike and Dad didn’t do it, JoePa didn’t do it, Dranov advised against it.
What would Schultz tell Harmon? Hey we’ve got the same type of incident you found unworthy of charges in 98?
MM’s Dad talked to him with Dranov and I imagine both talked about the distress of MM and the lack of actual visual eyewitness of any crime. – just a strong suspicion
Is that enough for a full scale investigation involving PSU?
Can’t say but I imagine I would try to contact JS & the boy and if the boy said nothing happened I would believe it because MM said the boy was not distressed – end of story
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
It is their best argument...
but still so ridiculous that it comes to this a decade later…wtf
"That's why you don't play! 'Cuz you're no good!" -Joe Paterno
Well it came to this because of Victim 1 not Victim 2
who is still either unknown to prosecutors or more likely known to have said nothing bad happened that night.
That’s what I think is going on here.
and it seems to me that on cross the lawyers with hands tied by the MDJ were able to confirm the exculpatory evidence they required
No Penetration, No good view, no Physical fit for intercourse “it JS won’t fit you must acquit”? bad joke but it’s what the defense will hammer home.
MM really didn’t observe anything actionable in the few seconds. He only imagined and suspected. That’s no where near beyond a reasonable doubt.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
any follow up on McQ's criminal record in Virginia
what the hell is that?
the ONLY thing i can think of is maybe he got a DWI while recruiting
Mike will throw back beers, but does not get out of control, is not a big partier
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
The only thing I have seen
Is he was ticketed for driving 20 mph over the speed limit. That’s all I’ve seen in any reports.
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
Welcome to VA
Going 15 over automatically gets you a reckless driving charge…which is a misdemeanor, with similar consequences to a DUI if convicted. Wife got one, we had to get a lawyer. Sucked.
by SkellerDweller06 on Dec 16, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
VA Law
is 20 over for reckless…the only time it is reckless at 15 over is when you are doing 80 in a 65 because VA also states anything over 80 is reckless.
by va2pennstate on Dec 16, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
He went on a stick-up spree with Juliette Lewis at his side.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Dec 16, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How!
…ya doin’?
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 16, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Who really gives a sh*t about his prior record?
How is that relevant? Unless it is a crime involving honesty (crimen Falsi), it most likely will be inadmissible and irrelevant.
How long until the GJ testimony is available on the web?
by dontcallmescooter on Dec 16, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions
Ehhh
If waiting on the state to release it as part of the transcript of this proceeding, that may take a while.
However, if the charges are held to court, I’d imagine the Curley/Schultz camp is ready to post it later today.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
+1 for tetherball
"The only difference between a brown-noser and a shit head is depth perception"
-PSU_Lions_84
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
by MainLion on Dec 16, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Idiots.
They don’t even have subpoena power if they don’t file suit!
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Dec 16, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Off to lunch
Well, I must say, I couldn’t have picked a cheerier morning than to read, in exquisite detail, 53 different interpretations of anal sodomy of an 11-year-old boy a week before Christmas. I think I’ll go take a bath in bleach and then have a sandwich.
by Jitterbug on Dec 16, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I get to spend the afternoon coding a survey with questions such as...
“Was the child’s death due to . . .
1) an accident,
2) a health condition, or
3) was the child killed?”
It’s going to take a combination of bleach and whiskey tonight…
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
MMM... Bleach and whiskey.
I call that a Kentucky Klorox.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 16, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
I tend to think that what he was is actually the least important thing about him
It’s what McQueary and Paterno thought he was that is relevant.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
And I think we know half of the answer to that question now
I thought I was talking to the head of the police, to be frank with you. In my mind it was like speaking to a DA.
That’s from McQueary today, courtesy of Ben’s Twitter.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
But Homer said he is not the real cops
Btw does anyone else immediatley think of"Dirty Work" when they hear real cops?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 16, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Since it likely won't be read in open court
All we will hear is both sides arguing about it, which I don’t see breaking anything.
Now, when it gets posted in its entirety to the internet, you’re gonna have a whole different ball game.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
I suspect something along the lines of...
Paterno’s written testimony: “After arranging for Mike to speak with administration, I was informed that an investigation had been conducted and no inappropriate actions were found. Curley told me that Sandusky was asked to not bring children to campus to avoid even the appearance of engaging in an inappropriate relationship and that the issue was closed. I was never informed of anything such as rape or anal intercourse.”
ESPN reports: “Paterno: After arranging for… Sandusky… to… bring children to campus to… engaging in an inappropriate relationship… such as rape or anal intercourse.”
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 16, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Will probably be the lead on OTL today at 3
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Then... I... grabbed... her... sweet... can...
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH….
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 16, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure ESPN will spin it into the most despicable testimony in the history of ... testimonies.
"I will not stop supporting PSU nor will my children because of one guy’s actions. Its that simple. I tell the people who give me grief about PSU to stop watching ESPN and wait for the facts to come out before they have to pull their foot out of their mouth and my foot out of their asses."
Hey everybody?
Do y’all all have your bleach and booze ready?
Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!
Follow @Paige2PSU
Booze is ready..
had to stiffen’ the bleach with some sulfuric acid.
I'm not rationalizing - I'm being totally irrational
I think that explodes
if you mix them together! be careful.
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure.
I think the judge has made an appealable error here.
Assuming you can appeal these hearings, I do not understand how he lets the testimony of Paterno and Bigger Red come in and not Dranov. The first ruling I get. The prosecution had not opened the door to Dranov so the Defense can’t touch it. But Bigger Red on direct opened the door wide open. He testified Dranov was there the night MM came over to the house to talk about what he saw, and more importantly, I believe he testified Dranov met with him and Schultz and they talked about the incident. This should have been all the defense needed.
A relevancy argument does not hold either. If Paterno and Bigger Red’s testimony was relevant because a)MM told them what he saw and b)they later had conversations with the accussed, then both of those criteria are satisfied by Dranov as well.
Maybe I’m wrong. I’m sure you will let me know if I am.
since it's a prelim
the mention of Dranov “opens the door” for trial. The Judge may, or may not, have decided that further inquiry as to who saw or said what was not relevant to the the issue of whether the Commonwealth presented a prima facie case. Dranov was not on the witness list – so he may have decided to halt that line of questioning, at this time
All said w disclaimer that it’s been over 10 years since I’ve been in a criminal courtroom
There is an inside joke the defense bar uses in Western PA to describe
hearings at this level…essentially, ‘you can check your Rules book at the door.’
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