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Penn State Coaching Search: Mike Munchak

NASHVILLE, TN - NOVEMBER 06:  Mike Munchak the Head Coach of the Tennessee Titans watches the game action during the NFL game against the Cincinnati Bengals at LP Field on November 6, 2011 in Nashville, Tennessee.  (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images)

Another day, another Penn State coaching rumor. The guys over at the newly reconstituted LaschOut tweeted that a NFL head coach had inquired about the PSU job. It was later confirmed -- such as these things are ever really confirmed -- that the head coach in question was former PSU great Mike Munchak.

(Before the horse gets too far out of the barn, this rumor was denied by Titans reporter Jim Wyatt.)

Head Coaching Record

Well, he's in his first year as a head coach on any level -- with the NFL's Tennessee Titans. They're a surprising 6-5, in a season where most NFL prognosticators likely had them eliminated from the playoff race by early November. However, yes, that's the extent of Munchak's head coaching career.

So...Other Accomplishments?

Glad you asked. Munchak is on a short list of best offensive linemen to ever play at Penn State. He was a top-ten pick of the Houston Oilers in 1982 and has spent the last 30 years either playing or coaching in the Oilers/Titans organization. His résumé:

After a 12-year playing career as a guard for the Houston Oilers, he spent three seasons assisting the coaching staff. Munchak became the offensive line coach in 1997 and held that position for 14 years (1997-2010). Four of his players have totaled 10 Pro Bowl invitations and his offensive lines have paved the way for five different running backs to total an NFL-high 12 1,000-yard rushing seasons since 1997.

In 2001, he became the fifth franchise player to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He earned nine Pro Bowl invitations during his career and was bestowed the honor of having his Oilers number 63 jersey retired in 1996.

Munchak, as a coach, is acknowledged as one of the finest teachers in the game. Only twice during his career has he had the benefit of starting the same starting five linemen from one year to the next; yet, the Titans offensive lines are perennially one of the best units in the NFL. His offensive line allowed the second fewest sacks (28.3 sacks per season) in the NFL since he assumed control of the group in 1997.

Additionally, the Titans ranked seventh in the league in rushing yards (124.5 yards per game) during his tenure and totaled seven NFL top 10 finishes in rushing yards (1997, ‘98, 2000, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’09). The highlight for the group was a 2,000-yard rushing season in 2009 by Chris Johnson, who became just the sixth player in league history to reach that mark.

Of course, Chris Johnson totally flaked out in the preseason and the Titans have a washed up Matt Hasselbeck at quarterback, so they're suffering on the ground this season (currently ranked 30th of 32 teams).

Munchak has the benefit of being away from Penn State for 30 years, but if you're concerned that the years have taken a toll on his respect for the program, don't worry:

"I can't tell you how excited I am to be the next head coach of the Tennessee Titans," Munchak said at his introductory press conference. "[Joe Paterno] is probably the guy I've learned the most from - his discipline, the way he ran the team. He commanded the room and the practice field. He was very hands-on and involved. I'm hoping to instill some of things I learned from him here."

Fit - Cultural, Personnel, Etc.

Certainly, Munchak would be an ideal cultural fit for practically all Penn State fans. His presence would essentially guarantee that Penn State's offensive line -- a unit that has struggled mightily for the better part of the last decade -- would never be awful again. As for the rest of this category, it's a crapshoot. We can assume a number of things about Munchak's offensive philosophy, but the specifics would have to be hammered out by coordinators and assistant. Remember, Munchak went straight from position coach to head coach. He's never been an offensive coordinator, and has never worked on the defensive side of the football. However, as far as putting a credible and stable face on the Penn State program, it's hard to do any better than Mike Munchak. The devil would be in the details: assistant coaches, recruiting ability, CEO skills, and so on.

Also, a key missing piece in the Munchak scenario is the timeline. Tennessee is improbably in the AFC playoff race and has five games remaining. Penn State likely wants to move much faster on this thing, although they've stated that Tom Bradley will remain on the coaching staff through the bowl game. If Penn State is willing to risk sacrificing this recruiting class in order to conduct a fully thorough exploration of all options, a guy like Munchak becomes more viable.

Recruiting wouldn't be a total lost cause in that scenario. Penn State's bowl game is likely to be December 31 or so, which leaves about five weeks before National Signing Day (although there are many nuances and restrictions regarding recruting practices in January). Still, waiting is rolling the dice.

The Verdict?

Love the idea, with reservations about coordinators/recruiting noted above. Certainly, it would appease those who want a coach that provides a clean break from the Paterno regime while also understanding and loving the culture of the state and university. The thought of never having to worry about the offensive line again makes me downright giddy.

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A lot of games are won and lost in the trenches

so having a dominant offensive line can really be the foundation of a great offense. I don’t usually like the idea of hiring NFL guys because I feel like they will probably go back to the NFL for a head coaching gig, but since Munchak is already a head coach, that doesn’t seem like it would be a concern—he must really like the idea of coaching at Penn State.

Any idea what his personality is like? Charismatic, likely to connect with young recruits? Any sense on how his player (especially ex-linemen) feel about him?

That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.

by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 2, 2011 10:20 AM EST reply actions  

I've listened to his Monday night radio show a few times

It’s the typical NFL coach’s radio show, taking questions from the “audience” and discussing the previous game and the one coming up. I don’t know that I would call him charismatic—then again, what defines that is probably a little different to everyone. He sounds like a great guy, solid, somewhat personable.

Like I said in another thread, I would support this but would be really, really, really surprised if it happened. He’s been with the Oiler/Titan organization for a long, long time and just got the position he’s probably spent the last 20 years working towards. There were a lot of doubters in this town when the Titans named him the head coach and he’s managed to win most of them over. I don’t see him walking away from that.

by psu87intn on Dec 2, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Nick Saban is not particularly charismatic.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 2, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Really? This guy doesn't ooze charisma?

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes, when I get nervous, I put my fingers under my arms, and then....

SEC Superstar!

"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."

by MainLion on Dec 2, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Classic SNL...FTW!!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Dec 2, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Titan fan and former Nashville resident...

I endorse this message.

On a more serious note, I am also giddy at the thought of having good o-lines. And maybe Bradley could step back to d-coordinator. PSU with the same defense and a very good o-line wins a lot of games we didn’t over the course of the last 10 years, even with no change in any of the offensive “skill” positions (I hate the “skill” label, I’d like to see some of those skill players block someone).

We could certainly do a lot worse than Munchak. But why would he live a HC job in the NFL for this? Is there really enough motivation there?

by BNittsDeMilo on Dec 2, 2011 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

Assuming Bradley is kept on at all

and assuming he would want to go back to DC and not try to find a head coaching job somewhere, this would definitely alleviate some of the concerns I have with recruiting. That being said, I have a hard time seeing it play out like this. But who knows anything at this point?

That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.

by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 2, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Dec 2, 2011 10:23 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

This possibility excites me.

With, as you said, the right assistants. Love the “teacher” label. I could not find his salary after a half-hearted Google search. Anyone know what he’s being paid by Tennessee?

by CvilleLion on Dec 2, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions  

Lots of stuff to like

Wonder how he would do recruiting and what type of cache his name would have with the kids.

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions  

I don't follow recruiting much,

But I know NFL pedigree goes a long way with the top recruits. One of the reasons Cam Williams has been such a successful student-recruiter for us is that he comes from an NFL family.

From a recruiting standpoint, I can’t imagine Penn State doing better than having a guy who went to Penn State, went on to be a first-round draft pick, had a very successful NFL career as both a player and a coach, and who is now coaching Penn State.

by newenglandnittanylion on Dec 2, 2011 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Kids want to hear that they will have a good shot at making "the show".

What better way to tell them than to have a HC that actually made the show, and was quite successful.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

That bust in Canton couldn't hurt either.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I dont have as much faith that his name will ring the same with 17-18 year old kids

I mean, I barely knew who the guy was when he got the titans job. I’m sure he can flash some hardware and impress kids with his NFL accolades, but I think that only goes so far.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Just showing that he was a coach at the next level is big.

It shows he’s been there. It shows he knows what it takes. And he has done pretty well for a first year coach considering the Titans were basically written off at the beginning of the year.

_______________________
Twitter | @LosSwiggs

by Swiggs on Dec 2, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing completely

I think thats probably a big boon to most of these kids. But that can’t be all he’s offering. I mean, if you want to pull in a recruit that doesn’t really have dreams of the NFL, you need to be able to pitch him something else.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

Plus, there has to be at least a small concern that he hasn’t been a coach at the college level at all and doesn’t know the hustle that currently is college football recruiting. It’s been a long time since he played and was recruited. My how things have changed.

_______________________
Twitter | @LosSwiggs

by Swiggs on Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Thats why I think trying to keep some of the current staff would be good

They’re all very familiar with the recruiting game and could help out in that regard.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

And then be like

“Thats me you know. Thats my head. Right there. On your coffee table. My head. Drink it in, cause it goes down smooth”

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Here, I've got some ones that can fit on a keychain.

Go ahead, take a couple. Give’em to your friends, family, whatever. They make good stocking stuffers.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

When he signs an autograph for them,

the HOF 2001 subscript should get the job done.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I still want Bradley

But this is be the best alternative I’ve heard so far. I share the same reservations that Chris does above, but from the interviews I’ve seen and articles I’ve read, it seems Munchak is a class guy who runs a tight ship and that his PSU values have carried through during his po career.

by James on Dec 2, 2011 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

I will be pleasantly surprised if

much can be salvaged from this recruiting class. I’ve got to give it to the kids who have held on and won’t wish them ill if they make a change once the new coach is determined.

I would sacrifice this whole recruiting year for the right guy to be hired even if it takes until after the NFL season.

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu

by rahpsu92 on Dec 2, 2011 10:33 AM EST reply actions  

Admittedly

I knew little of Munchak before this. I don’t really follow the NFL, and my knowledge of all things Penn State is fuzzy before I became a student there in 2004.

That said, I absolutely love this idea. Hiring a Penn State guy virtually ensures that important traditions and culture are maintained. Hiring arguably one of the best OLinemen in PSU history would be amazing. I’d like to see the developement of all of these highly recruited linemen we get.

Personally, if Munchak gets the job, I’d like to see him keep on Bradley, Vanderlin, and LJ senior for a best of both worlds situation. I don’t know how likely that is, and if thats something Bradley could live with, but it would certainly ensure some continuity in this years recruiting class- especially if announced early.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

That would be the ideal scenario in my mind

Keep Bradley on to doggedly recruit while Munchak finishes out his season with the Titans (though I imagine the Titans would just want him gone, especially if they are out of the playoffs), hopefully keep most of the defensive staff to avoid turnover in recruiting, and Munchak can bring in the offensive coaches he wants. This would help avoid the issues with the NFL/recruiting timeline and probably set things up for solid units on both sides of the ball.

That is really best case scenario though.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Well if he accepts the job

They’d probably want him to move on so they could make their decisions

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

That's what I have trouble with.

NFL HC to college HC doesn’t make sense unless you’re an NFL HC and are about to get canned or something.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he was a bust with the Jets right?

Doesn’t mean he was a bad coach…but the situation in the NFL is tougher than college…less choice in your players when you rely on the draft vs. recruiting.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure the NFL is tougher...it's just a different animal

Pete Carrol was the pre-Bellicheck coach at New England.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

the NFL to me seemed a lot more like managing people and egos. College to me is more about connecting and teaching your players. Some people are better at one than they are the other.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

College is also more of a grind.

You have to recruit year round, you have to deal with new players every 1-4 years. In the NFL, management gives you your players, and the top level ones typically stick around for a bit. More is expected out of everyone (PSU’s relatively vanilla playbook wouldn’t fly in the pros), but it’s consolidated. Also, the pros don’t have class and other non-work obligations (except the occasional PR event, but the college kids do those too).

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

That might depend on one's definition of "grind"

NFL HC and college HC all have their unique set of headaches. I’m sure dealing with Chris Johnson’s nonsense wasn’t easy for Munchak, for example. And who knows, maybe the guy looks at the difference between being a position coach and NFL head coach and thinks “holy crap, I can’t do this forever.”

I generally side with the sentiment of “he’s been with Houston/Tenn forever and building toward this job, why would he leave it now?”. But who knows what goes into a guy’s decisionmaking.

by Chris Grovich on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

But how much headache do you think the CJ thing actually caused Munchak

as opposed to the Owner/GM of the Titans, who was likely the one negotiating with CJ? I guess I was getting at the fact that being a college HC is a year round active job, while an NFL HC is “on” during the season. Sure, there is plenty of work to do in the offseason, but not sitting in some kid’s driveway at 4am.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

having to coach a team without your best player and still be expected to win games and possibly having that player come whining to you because he wants a couple more million dollars and having to keep the peace with other players who think they deserve more money but arent getting it seems like it would cause some headaches.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

But I don't think CJ (or any player) goes to the HC with money issues.

The playing time and keeping the peace I get. But college coaches deal with that too.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I think they do

I hear coaches giving press conferences talking about contract stuff all the time. I mean, the players arent trying to negotiate with them or anything, but I’m sure Chris Johnson is talking to Munchak trying to get him in his corner. And I’m sure he’s got a lot more things to worry about that what kind of bonuses Chris thinks he deserves.

And I realize there are similar issues with college kids, but I’m in agreement that that are headaches at both levels, but maybe some people can deal with a kid thinking he deserves more playing time better than a kid who thinks he deserves more money because of his draft position.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah they do

Did you see hard knocks with the Revis hold-out?

by STU Boy on Dec 2, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, but he's in the middle of it

and really has no say, other than “Hey we really need this guy”. A college coach can just decide if he wants a kid to play or not. No negotiating. Some guys might not mind that headache, some might.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

So he has 6 weeks to get his team ready

He needs Revis, in the meantime he has his nickle-back (Wilson) practicing at the outside position, instead of the slot where he was supposed to be. 6 weeks were wasted on Wilson, he was not taught the position he was supposed to play.

by STU Boy on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly what I was thinking.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

every NFL coach now has a MAJOR say in personnel

decisions. That’s the way it works; you cook the meal and you play a role in buying the groceries. Every head coach is in the war room on draft day with either the ultimate say or penultimate say.

NFL coaching is more taxing, I’m certain. There’s a reason no octagenarians are coaching in the NFL or ever have. The expectations and press scrutiny are much, much greater.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the expectations thing, and that being the reason that a Joe Paterno story wouldn't exist in the NFL.

And I agree about the personnel issues to an extent. But the GM/Owner is the guy to see with money issues. Mike Munchak can’t give Chris Johnson an extra nickel of the Tennessee Titans’ money by himself.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

NFL coaches are in the meetings

They don’t have final say unless they are also GM, but their input is very damn important in terms of talent and picking players to fit into the budget they are given.

by STU Boy on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

As I said on one of the 38 other "coaching search" threads

I am also very skeptical that he would abandon the organization he has been with for decades and the job he has coveted for so long, especially not after having just overcome the odds to get it.

On the other hand, I have considered that being the head coach at Penn State could be his ultimate ideal, his dream job, and his obvious love for his alma mater might make the prospect of coming to the rescue in her darkest hour all the more appealing. The head job at PSU doesn’t just come open every few years (we hope), so if that’s your Holy Grail, you take the shot.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I think its a little different when your alma mater is in the situation we're currently in

It would have to probably be some sort of hush-hush arrangement, as it would look pretty bad from a PR standpoint to have him bail on the Titans to go to PSU. At least I think it would be from my perspective.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't mean to bite off your points made here, Ska

I should probably read down through the thread before posting.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

meh, bite away

I’m no master debater (tee hee) so if people want to add on or put it in their own words, go right ahead.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Because Bud Adams owns the team

and, despite hanging with Jeff Fisher for so long, he is about as stable as a mug of nitro on a humid day.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

WHAT'RE YOU TRYNA SAY?

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Shit, reply fail

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Ah yes . . .

Good ole Bud loving the Bills’ fans.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

A sentiment widely shared in Houston.

And one I fully endorse as well.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I will rec this sentiment every signle time it is expressed

"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"

by DrewRusse on Dec 2, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a rec.

Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

For some reason, I'm only really comfortable with a "PSU guy"

Munchak would be great because he’s had that separation from the program and established an identity away from PSU.

But can he relate to 17 year old kids and recruit top talent? Can he translate his X’s and O’s to the college game?

I absolutely love the idea of having a solid OL guy though. As attractive as the spread offense is, I’ve longed for dominant pro-style like Harbaugh did at Stanford.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

I'm right there with you

In terms of only being comfortable with a PSU guy. I’ve heard some upsides about guys like Mullen and Petersen and what not, but no matter how good they are, I still have a small uneasy feeling inside. Penn State football means too much to just put it in the hands of anyone, especially if they don’t have the connection that the rest of us do.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Penn State guys can be made, too.

Paterno wasn’t a PSU guy, after all. I want the best possible football coach. If he’s good enough at his job, he’ll become a Penn State guy through time.

by Chris Grovich on Dec 2, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I’m not saying that I’m not open to the idea of an outside hire. Hell, I would have taken Harbaugh in a heartbeat. I’m just saying that its one more piece of the puzzle that we don’t know for sure when evaluating the hire

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Harbaugh would have been perfect for Penn State..

even as a Michigan guy, I love how tough his teams were. It wasn’t just Andrew Luck..but just tough as nails players like Toby Gerhart.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Loved watching Gerhardt play.

Just….tough.

@JPosnanski - I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."

#OccupyESPN


Black Shoe Diaries

by Adam Collyer on Dec 2, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

BABY RHINO GO SMASH!

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

How about Owen Marecic?

Played iron man in the modern age of college football, once scoring on offense and defense in the same game (and not in a sissy WR/DB kind of way either). Awesome. My favorite non-PSU college player, hands down.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont think he necessarily needs to be a PSU guy

just hold on to the same values. But I dont think just because he’s good at his job he’ll eventually become a PSU guy.

I mean, Bobby Petrino is good at his job too, and I sure as hell doubt he’d ever be a Penn State guy…

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

before Joe

there was no such thing as a Penn State guy….he is the mold

Believe deep down in your heart that you are destined to do great things

by farrellpsu on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Penn State guys can be made

but whoever it is needs to buy into being a Penn Stater. Joe was perfect for that (it could be argued that he invented the idea of a ‘Penn State guy,’ since that ideal is largely a product of his tenure as coach.)

Guys like Mike Leach (as good as his pressers would have been) and Rich Rod are not the type of guy to buy into that idea just for the sake of the idea. If we aren’t going the Penn Stater route (which I hope we do, I love the Munchak rumor), it needs to be certain that the next HC will buy into that idea. You would think a program like PSU’s would make anyone buy into it, but that’s not always the case.

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

by LAPSU on Dec 2, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I too know little about Munchak, but he sounds like he would be a good fit.

Worried about timing, like Chris said.

Interesting to see that, to steal a comment from someone on another site, it looks like we’re setting our baseline with Dan Mullen. The “home run” hires appear to be Munchak, Richt, etc. Still don’t know how I feel about Richt, but I’ll take Munchak vs. Urban Meyer.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

Rec'd for this

Even before The Thing happened, I’ve wanted the next coach to be a Penn Stater, and now more than ever, I think that’s really important.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Loyalty and dedication

Devils’ advocate: if he was willing to leave a year after the organization went out on a very long limb to give him the head coach job, how is that showing loyalty and dedication?

by M1EK on Dec 2, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe NFL Head Coach just isn't for him?

Seriously, we’re all speculating here. I wouldn’t read too deeply into anything.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't watch enough Titans football (other than CJ's disappointing stat lines).

What are his X’s and O’s like? I know he’s a former OL, but is he offensive or defensive minded?

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

I endorse the CEO approach.

The more I think about it the more I like it. Let coordinators do what they do, and if they aren’t getting it done you replace them and aren’t stuck with a coach who refuses to change either an ingrained offensive or defensive philosophy.

by Kevin Powers on Dec 2, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

So like JoePa..

but actually enforcing accountability?

What a concept!

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

Or put another way, the opposite of RichRod.

by Kevin Powers on Dec 2, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Even before "IT" happened....

This was me dream hire for replacing Paterno. If Bradley wants to stay on as DC so be it, but I’d like to see LJ or Van get a promotion out of this, not saying I wish any ill will on Bradley though.

by eternalpessimist on Dec 2, 2011 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

I think he'd probably test the waters at least

see if anyone else will hire him. Though he might need a year before getting a real shot somewhere, just with everything surrounding him at this point.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Back before IT happened

and I believed Urban Meyer was going to be the next PSU coach, I really hoped that the entire defensive staff would be retained. Now I can’t help but think Bradley will have a tough time returning to his coordinator’s post having sat in the big chair, even for a short time. Retaining LJS and VL would probably mean a promotion for both. Keeping Bradley means a demotion for him.

I just hope that the specter of Sandusky doesn’t get him canned at PSU and render him unemployable elsewhere, leaving the guy who held the program together this last month with class and dignity out in the cold.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So, is it to be know as "IT" or "THE THING"

let’s vote

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Using “the Thing” would badly confuse all future coded mobster communication.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

This may be the NFL coach I'm most receptive to

But the timeline means this is probably a pipedream unless he goes full Petrino and jumps ship on the Titans under cover of night.

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

On timeline: I hope that PSU would be flexible

It’s worth taking whatever recruiting hit comes to get the right guy. If you think someone like Munchak is going to be the next coach for 20 years, you can take a sub-par class this year.

I’m sure if both sides are interested, there would be a way to make the timing work. The bigger question to me is whether he’s really interested at all, and if so, how well he’d adapt to the college game.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I know this probably will not be a popular opinion

I would love if much of the defensive staff would stay on, because I think they do a good job. I am excited about the chance to see a changing of the offensive staff. However, I would like to see Jay PAterno kept around. I wasn’t of the same opinion before, as I thought it would have done him good to go out on his own once his dad retired. But, I liked seeing him on the field coaching the last couple games and I would actually like it to continue.

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

I said this somewhere else, but no matter what direction the committee takes, most if not all of the staff will be gone.

Even if it’s Bradley, the assistants will not all be there.

And Jay…well, I think it’s safe to say Jay will no longer be employed by Penn State in 2012.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you for your opinion

and it may be what happens, but I can still think it sucks, and is the cowardly easy way out.

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it cowardly if its the coaches who decide to leave?

Even if Bradley is the choice, coaches like Galen Hall and others will probably decide not to stick around. Is that cowardly? I think it’s just part of staff turnover.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I was assuming

you meant told to leave by the AD.

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Even then it's not cowardly

The cowardly act occurred when the BoT fired Paterno without the facts. Everything after that is just clean up.

by kijana's acl on Dec 2, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I think I made a mistake in reading Jeff's post

But what I was referring to was any additional dismissal of personnel not involved, in the same way Paterno was. Not coaches leaving on their own or a new guy coming in a wanting to bring in new staff.

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I think you're done seeing coaches actively fired.

Whether or not they’re politely shown the door is another matter, but I wouldn’t expect outright firings.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

It's hard for me to imagine that the AD, etc would say to the new coach:

You get to hire your staff, but you can’t hire any on the current staff. That’s crazy; they won’t do that.

At the same time, it’s almost as hard for me to imagine that a new coach wouldn’t want to bring in his own people for most of these positions.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

The smartest thing a new HC could do is retain Jay Paterno.

Talk about savvy. That one move would probably buy the guy between three and five years of leeway with a fanbase that is conditioned at near Pavlovian levels to place blame for anything and everything that goes wrong squarely on Jay’s shoulders. Give him a headset and keep him on the sidelines, where he’s sure to be shown a dozen times per game on TV (just to remind the fans he’s there).

Keeping Jay represents the ultimate insurance policy against accepting responsibility for any bumps on the road back to glory.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

you might be a genius

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Smart!

and yet evil at the same time..?

by archerbullseye on Dec 2, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

I think it’s highly unlikely that Bradley or anyone else on the current coaching staff stays on if they hire not Tom Bradley for coach. If Bradley’s the coach, we’d still lose 80-90% of the coaching staff, and I think that’s a good thing, even admitting how good LJ Sr, et al are at their jobs.

Scandal or now, the program’s been stale for too long and we need new blood, which isn’t to say I wouldn’t be happy if Bradley became head coach.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

And you know what? The entire staff being gone isn't the end of the world

They’re not the only ones that know how to coach defense and recruit.

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly

if they hire Munchak but somehow keep the entire defensive coaching staff in place (a scenario with 0% likelihood), this whole process is much less exciting.

If this hire goes well, this may be the one of only two or three times in my life that Penn State hires a new head football coach. Frankly, I’d like to see a new staff with new ideas.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Darren Perry as DC?

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not against it, per se

Young guy, seems to be rising in the coaching ranks. I’d be hesitant over the lack of recruiting experience, but I’d rather take a risk on a young alum that can presumably relate to kids better than some stodgy NFL lifer.

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Plus . . .

Since he played and coached under Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau, I think we would stand a strong shot of seeing a whole new defensive approach. I could dig some zone blitz.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Penn State football, ten years from now:

“Another 300 yard passing game for an opposing quarterback! These cornerbacks suck, but we keep on with the same stale zone blitz packages and worthless man-to-man coverage schemes! We need new blood!”

"Woop woop." - Waylon Jennings

by ReadingRambler on Dec 2, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Zone blitz is fun and effective.

As a bonus, it forces you to recruit smart student athletes for the defensive side of the ball. I saw that down here. Saban ran these schemes a bunch at LSU. He brought in smart kids and I don’t think his motivation was to make sure that they could handle the academic load.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The major downside to the fancy blitz schemes

Is that you need smart and experienced guys all over the field who can handle the scheme. And if you lose a few guys, the whole thing can fall apart. Look at the Steelers without Palamalu, or the Jets when Reeves isn’t playing.

This season we lost our best LB, our best DE, and for a few games we lost our best CB. Every time we plugged a new guy in and didn’t lose a beat. A lot of that is scheme and the simplicity of our system.

I understand the frustration with our defense, but if you ask me it’s more about the talent we have in any given season than the system. Recruiting is more important than scheme.

Anyway, the flashlights eat our human power grids, our souls if you will. So i destroyed them, and if a few precious panties were burnt or soiled in the reckoning then so be it

by millzners on Dec 2, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I agree...

They must be smart — Saban and his academic guy Roger Grooters (who was killed about a year ago on a bike in Florida and, indecently was a good guy) made sure of that. Student-athletes also go to class when Nicky and Roger are in charge.

To me, a team that can run this scheme well is more entertaining than a prolific offense. And while the Steelers are aging on defense (although Troy’s status is equally concerning), college teams tend to compress the talent differential (depth chart wise) and needn’t worry about age.

In the end, I’m not frustrated with our defense. I’ve loved it for four decades.

However, since we’ve got a transition going on, why not just go ahead and visit new places? My view is that the upside (such that there is an upside in this still-steaming-on a-January-day-in-Erie pile of dog shit)) of all of this, is that we have a chance to press the cultural envelope with diminished risk.

In other words, it will never be even remotely close to the same as it ever was. If we must break, we may as well break clean. And NOW is the moment with the most receptive audience. Everyone has figured out that this will be quite foreign.

The world has already been shattered. What’s a few more shards?

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

You need some youth on staff sometimes.

Not that Darren Perry is 25, but being able to talk to the recruits at different levels helps.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I always loved Darren Perry.

So I am cool with his name being in the mix, more as a DC than HC at this point though. Scrap would have the top job if I were the AD (but I were the AD, the words “Sweet” and “Caroline” would be banned from Beaver Stadium). Understanding that it’s not looking likely, I am trying to enjoy the college sports equivalent of Haley’s Comet (we hope) – a Penn State coaching search – and consider the pros and cons of just about any possibility. After all, it’s a hell of a lot more fun than talking about our impending trip to the Meineke.com Bowl or whatever it is.

One thing I do love about Perry is that he was a defensive star and a coach with the Steelers, which should play well with in-state recruits. Further, flashing Super Bowl rings won with Pittsburgh and Green Bay means he’s associated with two of the hottest, most visible teams in pro football. HS football players (and their parents) in any part of the country will recognize and understand Packers and Steelers football, what that means, and how it dovetails with Penn State’s brand.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I told this story recently, but pertinent here

I saw him out at a SC bar one night and he looked jacked.

That is all.

by jtothep on Dec 2, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case

he’s got my vote.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 2, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Hire him

We would totally win in a coaches brawl.

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

by LAPSU on Dec 2, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Right.

A new staff doesn’t mean a handful of rag tags and some crusty bitches. Replacing Joe and Co. with Mullen and Co. is different, but not necessarily worse.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Lasch Building Facillities Manager?

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

After what I heard last night,

I don’t think anyone in the Paterno family is too happy with anyone in the Lasch building management/maintenance offices.

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

you cannot tease like that

what did you hear?

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He was just hearing about this whole Sandusky thing for the first time last night?

That’s what I choose to think.

A pandemic of cowardice sweeps the nation.

by WorldBFat on Dec 2, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

3rded!

Or is this something the media might actually pick up?

It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa

by nylyst on Dec 2, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to know!

this is not nice, Junny

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, spill the beans Junny!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Dec 2, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The timing thing could be solved

If Munchak announced he was keeping Bradley, and possibly others, on staff. Muchak could finish out his NFL season, while Bradley would continue on as interim HC for a couple more months before returning to DC.

I’m not sure how plausible that scenario is, but I don’t see any functional reason why it couldn’t work.

by newenglandnittanylion on Dec 2, 2011 11:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Isn't that whats happening at OSU?

Fickel is staying on the staff right?

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

But not as DC, from what I read.

He was co-DC, but isn’t Mike Stoops coming on as the new DC with Fickell a “defensive assistant” at the moment?

by Jeff Junstrom on Dec 2, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting scenario brought up by Vint yesterday

If someone, say Iowa, offers Fickell the DC job, does he leave Ohio State?

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

My guess is that Fickell and Scrap

both become HCs somewhere smaller rather than return to a coordinator role.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Eh

Would you rather be a HC at Akron or a Coordinator at a big time school. I think Fickel needs at least a year to shake off his average performance this year (even if it was aided by suspensions and what not). Bradley may be a little tainted for a big program to take this year (not that its right).

Either way, I think a coordinator at a big time school is a better gig for future prospects than a HC at some mid-major.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

it's personal preference i guess

but I’d rather run my own small business than be an Senior VP at KPMG.

And I’m not sure that Akron is an accurate representation of the job they’re looking at; something close to middling ACC or Big East (a la Pitt or Maryland) or crappy SEC, B1G team (like Indiana).

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you

If I didn’t stand a chance at becoming the CEO of nike, I’d prefer running my own small business as well. However, if I thought that I had a realistic shot at becoming the CEO of nike, I’d pick my next job accordingly.

To the extent of getting a HC job at a crappy SEC or B1G school, I’d take that over a coordinator at the big boys. I guess it all depends on their actual job prospects

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Either way

he’s got a promising future as a Subway spokesman.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Its not a bad idea...

but you’re assuming everyone on the defensive staff would be happy with their previous roles.

Not sure how proven coaches would tolerate having somebody else come in and preside over them.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Which makes me realize he won't be the coach

He credits everything to Joe, so do you think he would ever do something like that to his team?

by STU Boy on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

It would basically make him Bobby Petrino

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Still

wasn’t he the one that initiated the interest? That’s gotta count for more than if we had gone to him and sprung the opportunity on him.

"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."

by LAPSU on Dec 2, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He has denied that he called Penn State

He could be lying, but doesn’t fit his character.

by psu87intn on Dec 2, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

And the man doesn't have an agent

So he couldn’t be using that to get around answering the question honestly.

by psu87intn on Dec 2, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sold (yet)

No college coaching experience whatsoever, and despite his PSU/NFL career, he’s not exactly a “household name” a la Dungy or Cowher. With Urbz at OSU, having a head coach that’s a top-notch recruiter is essential, and I’m just not sure if he fits the bill.

"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"

by DrewRusse on Dec 2, 2011 11:41 AM EST reply actions  

What if I told you

he had a voice that was smoother than rich, melted caramel and a set of baby blue eyes you could lose yourself into?

Is that someone you could say no to?

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I appreciate the differing opinion

but I think the “household name” thing is baloney. Penn State is the household name; you need someone who can come in there and close the deal. Being a member of the Hall of Fame certainly seems like great bona fides.

Whether or not he can actually recruit is an open question, but the lack of name recognition doesn’t bother me one bit.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh. No Dungy or Cowher, please.

They had their day, and now enjoy the stress-free lives of TV commentators. Hard to flip that switch again, I’m guessing.

by Chris Grovich on Dec 2, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

I also think that they’re both mediocre coaches anyway, people severely overrate the two of them.

Run.

by Bob Sacamano on Dec 2, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't want either one of them as the Penn State coach

But do you have any idea how good of a coach you have to be to make it to the Super Bowl multiple times?

Tony Dungy is probably one of the best 10 coaches of all time. The Tampa 2 defense — which he invented — revolutionized the way defense is played in the NFL. Tampa Bay had never, ever been good before he got there, and he turned them into a regular playoff team.

And Bill Cowher took a Neil-O’Donnell QB’d team to the Super Bowl.

Seriously, I don’t think either of those guys should be the PSU coach and they’re both past their prime, but the revisionist NFL coaching history on the site is absurd. Cowher might not be a great football mind — like Dungy — but he knew how to get the most out of his players and manage a staff.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Tony Dungy...

was a good NFL coach, but not top 10 of all time. Cowher was a luckier version of Andy Reid.

11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.

by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 2, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe not top ten all-time, but Dungy will go into the Hall of Fame

I agree with the Cowher: Reid comparison; I also think Andy Reid is or at least has been a very good coach (despite the troubles this year).

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Problem with Dungy...

is I remember him for a.) having John Gruden get his team over the hump in Tampa and b.) losing a bunch of times to the Patriots.

11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.

by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 2, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I most remember Dungy for building a winner in Tampa.

Doing what he did with the Buccaneers at that time was like the NFL equivalent of taking the Clippers to the NBA Finals.

As for losing to the Patriots all those times, at least some of the blame (probably a lot) needs to also go to Peyton “Big Game” Manning, who, going back to his days of never beating Florida, hasn’t won on the biggest stages without huge assists from Rex Grossman and two Pro Bowl linebackers inexplicably forgetting how to cover a receiver out of the backfield.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not like Dungy's...

teams got many stops against those Patriots teams and the one they won was a shoot out IRRC.

11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.

by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 2, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

I’ll note that the Colts ate up a lot of cap space on offense over the years, paying guys like Manning, Harrison, Wayne, James, Addai, Clark, Saturday, etc., so defense always got the short end of the stick, relatively speaking. But excuse only goes so far. They were built to outscore their opponents, and they rarely did that against the Pats.

Either way, I don’t want to derail the thread further or “go to the mat” for Tony Dungy. I like the presence he’d have on the recruiting trail and wouldn’t be as worried about X’s and O’s as some here, but I’m very skeptical that he would have the energy to really get after it the way a younger, hungrier coach would.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate to do this...
Tony Dungy is probably one of the best 10 coaches of all time. The Tampa 2 defense — which he invented — revolutionized the way defense is played in the NFL.

But he didn’t invent the Tampa 2 defense. It was invented by Bud Carson and Chuck Knoll in Pittsburgh, whom Dungy credits with inventing it.

As a head coach I can tell you a couple of little things about coaching. You do not invent anything anymore. You borrow, tweak, and adjust but in football nearly everything has been done before by someone else. As a head coach you are only as good as the assistants you have. Whoever the new coach is will bring a philosophy with them, try and get assistants who buy into that philosophy, and then try and sell it to the players/recruits.

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

fine, he "popularized" tampa 2

the verb is less important to me than the fact that people recognize that he was one hell of an NFL coach.

Along with his Super Bowl victory, Dungy led his teams to 11 playoff appearances in 13 seasons, including a league-record 10 straight showings. He had 148 career victories (19th all time) and his Colts teams won 12 games in six consecutive seasons (another league mark).

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I would argue it was already popularized with the Steel Curtain

The problem was nobody had the defensive line to run that particular defense since it takes a hell of a front four to generate enough pass pressure to not get shredded when your zone stretches past the 3 second mark.

It is also interesting to note that Dungy had ZIP to do with the Bucs building that front four, and that elite QBs tore his defense (or was it Monty Kiffin’s defense?) to shreds.

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

was it called the pittsburgh 2?

I love the steelers, and don’t have any particular affection for dungy, the bucaneers, or the colts, but simply for giving credit where it is deserved.

Yes, the players play the games and the Tampa 2 defensive, which, yes, was at least half-popularized (or pick your verb) by Monty Kiffin, has plenty of flaws.

Didn’t Dungy draft Warren Sapp? Even if he didn’t, it’s beside the point. Tom Brady essentially fell into Bellicheck’s lap, and yet everyone (rightly) claims that Bellicheck is one of the greatest coaches of all time, despite limited HC success without Brady.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

No it was called the Steel Curtain

and no one else could run because they lacked the personnel to do it effectively, that is until Tampa Bay drafted Sapp, and then traded for Simeon Rice.

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

as recently as five years ago, at least a quarter of the NFL

was running it. And not all of them could have had the personnel for it.

Regardless of Dungy’s role in defensive strategy, nothing you’ve said really does (or could) refute the facts I pulled earlier: 11/13 on playoff appearances; six consecutive 12-win seasons, etc.

If you think he’s over-rated as a coach, that’s your opinion. I don’t htink the facts support that one bit, regardless of who decided to make the middle backer responsible for deep third.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually don't think he is overrated

I actually wouldn’t mind him as coach. But saying he invented something he didn’t is what I was rambling on about.

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, well then

i agree. and thanks for the education on the steel curtain/tampa 2. I knew dungy played for the steelers, but didn’t know he lifted the defense.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

This is correct,

except for the Knoll part — it is Charles Henry Noll or Emperor Chaz. But this thing was absolutely conceived by Bud Carson and Dungy credits as much each and every time I’ve heard someone try to heap credit on him.

Also, the West Coast Offense should more properly be the Cincinnati Offense. bill Walsh with Ken Anderson throwing the ball.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 2, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually Noll was a driving force behind the idea, he saw the potential to exploit a wealth of undersized, aggressive lbs.

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 3, 2011 1:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You're right . . .

I was just jagging you on the K in Noll, not disagreeing with your fundamental point.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Dec 3, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Not going to lie...this candidate gives me a chub.

so far, he is the ONLY candidate I’ve seen mentioned that I actually want to be head coach at PSU. I remember the dude well. He is an animal and has a bizillion connections all over. Bruce Matthews is his best friend. He and Matthews are probably the best guard tandem in NFL history. He knows what he is doing.

I have not one reservation about how he would take care of the assistant jobs. He knows so damn many people, I cannot imagine he wouldn’t choose wisely.

And I really don’t understand the whole “lack of name recogition” argument I’m seeing here. Really? The guy is in the NFL Hall of f@#king Fame! It would probably take about 2 weeks for every recruit in the country to immediately be brought up to speed…that is, if they don’t live under a rock and already watch the NFL on Sundays.

by rodney20 on Dec 2, 2011 11:54 AM EST reply actions  

Are you at work?

You can use “The Tuck” if it becomes too uncomfortable to walk around.

by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 2, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

tuck up

its convienent and it feels great.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Dec 2, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We called it "posting up" in high school

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Dec 2, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

rec

how inconvenient it seems

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

One of the greatest Seinfeld lines ever!

The whole episode: “I was in the pool!” “Shrinkage”, etc.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

by NJ lion on Dec 2, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

They're pretty fun, guys.

A pandemic of cowardice sweeps the nation.

by WorldBFat on Dec 2, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

There are so many things I could say

But all would take things in a direction that would not be appropriate…which means someone else is bound to go that way.

by psu87intn on Dec 2, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that should say

They’re pretty fun, guys girls. But you already know that.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Harlots. Every one of them.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

but we don’t have to carry it around

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Bah.

We can give someone the Roman War Helmet without warning. You’d have to make a phone call for that.

A pandemic of cowardice sweeps the nation.

by WorldBFat on Dec 3, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions  

This is the first name that I heard

That I didn’t have an immediate negative reaction to. He’s actually currently coaching, and he’s currently successful. He’s the first legitimate PSU HC candidate who can even say that.

He’s also probably a long shot at best, but there are some reasons to think he would jump.

Hasselbeck is probably the biggest reason the Titans are doing well, but he is like 40 years old and although he’s having a great Kurt Warner-like late career surge, he’s not long for this league. If he goes down, or retires this year, the Titans are going to struggle.

Gruden, Cowher, Reid, Turner, and a few other big name coaches will be talked about this season, and unless Munchak makes a playoff run he may feel insecure about getting canned for a name.

This may also just be Munchak boosting his stock as it never hurts for your boss to know you’re in demand.

Anyway, the flashlights eat our human power grids, our souls if you will. So i destroyed them, and if a few precious panties were burnt or soiled in the reckoning then so be it

by millzners on Dec 2, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

Per Ben, a PSU private jet is flying to Indianapolis this afternoon.

He’s coming, guys.

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Bradley's used it the last two days

For recruiting visits with oral commits. The closest commit out that way is in Indiana so that doesn’t jive. Where’s Dungy living these days?

*

by Smee on Dec 2, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The best I can find is Carmel, IN

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That information appears dated so who knows

If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris

by carolinaeasy on Dec 2, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I mistyped anyway

I meant to write" the closest commit is in Illinois" — Tommy Schutt outside Chicago. Which is why flying to Indy doesn’t jive. Sorry.

*

by Smee on Dec 2, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

the NCAA headquarters are in Indy

maybe someone is meeting with those ass-hats.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Dec 2, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and I'm gonna pull a "Joe" here

It’s not a gawddamn jet. It’s a plane. Alabama has a jet. Florida has two. We are Penn State, we have a plane. :-)

*

by Smee on Dec 2, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, what was I thinking

B1G title game is tomorrow night in Indy. Probably U folks heading out for conference stuff.

*

by Smee on Dec 2, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Caldwell?

"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"

by DrewRusse on Dec 2, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather not watch football then.

I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive

by Peter Gray on Dec 2, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Do they even make

psu sweatervests? I think that would be a requirement

by ncpsu on Dec 2, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

In fact they do

I know because I own one.

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but usually I wear it with nothing underneath

Kinda like this

'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'

by psuphysicist on Dec 2, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Gerry DiNardo.

Our prayers have been answered.

by CvilleLion on Dec 2, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Munchak, please!

We need a psu guy, if only to keep the dreads and clay mathews hair at bay.

by ncpsu on Dec 2, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

Ha

I can agree with that

by FB6244 on Dec 2, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

It's what really makes me

sick to my stomach about this whole thing. The first time I see a “denard robinson” wearing a penn state jersey I WILL puke. I’m going to miss the clean cut image and the well-spoken players alot.

by ncpsu on Dec 2, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

What bad thing has Denard ever done other than smile a lot and have fun?

by STU Boy on Dec 2, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

FTFY
What bad thing has Denard ever done other than smile a lot and have fun a real good time?

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Dec 2, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He played for Michigan.

Get with the program.

"Woop woop." - Waylon Jennings

by ReadingRambler on Dec 2, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

In the Blue Band

we weren’t allowed to have long hair visible outside the hat (both women and men alike) and beards.

So of course one year I had long hair and a really shitty mustache. Meant every game I had to have one of my female friends in the trumpet line (sometimes a clarinettist) pin up my hair. And then we’d do each other’s nails, if I remember correctly.

The really shitty mustache just meant I had no taste.

by M1EK on Dec 2, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I am going to rec this comment because it is fun

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't say that

- and it means nothing to YOU. It means alot to millions of fans that have followed the program before you were born. Tradition and Image mean alot – regardless of how you feel.

by ncpsu on Dec 2, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't dislike Denard at all

I dislike the look. Joe made Devon Smith cut his hair. It just fits with the PSU Image and the “no name” thing and all that. It just screams “TEAM”

by ncpsu on Dec 2, 2011 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

someone cut their dreads on their own

then said he wanted to do it before Joe had to tell him to, was that Smith?

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Devon Smith is correct.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 3, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting write up about Munchak.

From the Times-Tribune website.

Makes you feel good about Munchak, but not about the odds of his coming here.

by CvilleLion on Dec 2, 2011 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

The approach that guy mentions

is the only one I think would work. If Joyner and a bunch of former captains went to him and appealed to him to come back, I think he’d consider it. I still don’t know that he would do it, but he would consider it.

But I don’t know that I’d want a coach who was just doing it out of a sense of duty. Not that I think Munchak would do that—he sounds like the kind of guy who would only do it if he was all in. I just don’t know that he can be that guy.

by psu87intn on Dec 2, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Donnie Collins is a good writer, IMO

"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"

by letsgopsu on Dec 2, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Munchak antidote

I was a friend of several of Mike’s teammates who lived in Hamilton Hall in the late 70’s. He would come around every once in a while. You always new when Mike was on the floor. His buddies would break out in a rousing rendition of the Village People’s bastardized version of “macho man” with “muncho man”. Man could those guys belt it out. I don’t think he really was too keen on it.
He has been with the Oilers/Titans longer than he was with PSU. You don’t just walk away after 25-30 years with an organization

by PRad on Dec 2, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

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