Final Take - Grand Jury & Media Manufactured "PSU Sex Scandal"
A more concise overview based on all available evidence after the Perjury Hearing on Friday Dec 16th - an attempt to boil down my obese verbiage into it's basic essence. Toss out everything else I've written - this is the whole story in as small a nutshell as I can make it - from the outsider in Tennessee. There is NO PSU Sex Scandal.
If the Grand Jury Presentment had simply accurately described Mike McQueary's testimony as "strong suspicion of sexual activity based on a brief glance in the shower and some slapping sounds" do you think Joe and PSU would have suffered this vilification? That is the first question you need to answer.
Based on a misleading Grand Jury Presentment and Perjury Hearing Testimony under oath by Mike McQueary; we can derive the simplest explanation for what transpired in Mike's meetings with Joe and then with Tim and Gary.
How accurate, graphic, and believable was McQueary when speaking to Joe Paterno? What did he and Joe say to Tim Curley and Gary Schultz? If MIke handled his talks with them like the light cross-examination at the Perjury Hearing I believe their reaction would have been: No reason to call police when the only suspicion is based on a 3 second glance of Jerry's back and 3 slapping sounds that did not confirm any criminal act. Reporting suspicion is not required or even advisable. This will be a leap for some of you but a long review of the tweets make this conclusion compelling.
Penn State people and Joe Paterno are unfairly cast in this travesty. Perhaps you will understand the magnitude of the travesty after the jump.
This Penn State travesty is all about 6 seconds (or less) broken into two 3 Second (or less) glances of the back of Jerry Sandusky in a shower with a young boy 9 years ago, one 10 minute early Saturday meeting between Mike and Joe, and one 10 days later for 10 or 12 minutes with Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. This is the full extent of the distorted molehill that brought down Joe Paterno and tarnished PSU because of the Grand Jury's misleading presentment and the media's complicity for reporting distortion as unassailable fact.
SIX SECONDS (or less) - and 3 (or less) of those
through a mirrored view of upper bodies and 3 (or less) a direct view of the back of Jerry Sandusky. Due to some slapping sounds that preconditioned him to see a sex act Mike McQueary is 'certain of something extremely sexual'. So he ends a 45 second locker room visit leaving a naked boy with his presumed attacker?
Mike saw "no insertion" he "did not look down there" , he saw "no pain" or distress on the boy's face, he saw them "not bent over" but "standing up" all in two short "1 or 2 second glances" and he left the naked youngster in the shower with the naked Jerry Sandusky --See (appendix C) -Tweets of Testimony Under Oath.
Saturday morning MIke spends a mere 10 minutes with Joe Paterno. Mike does not use "saw" or "anal intercourse" that show up in the misleading presentment but expresses his "discomfort" over what he thought might have been "something of a sexual nature".
This weekend before Spring Break Joe calls Tim Curley saying an upset Mike saw "inappropriate horseplay or something of a sexual nature". 8 days later there is a "10 to12 minute meeting" between Mike, Tim and Gary Schultz. Only the three of them know what was said.
Based on conflicting testimony the state brings perjury charges against Curley and Schultz because recollections from a meeting 9 years previous about a 45 second locker room visit differ. A meeting without witnesses, notes, recordings or any indication of lying on purpose makes a very weak perjury case.
That's IT - that is all there is.
No other events in the Sandusky Case have anything to do with Paterno, Spanier, Curley or Schultz.
I suspect Mike McQueary confronted with evidence of multiple victims in 2010 determined to help prosecution any way they wanted because he harbored the guilt of leaving a naked boy with an alleged pedophile who stands accused of abusing multiple victims. MIke's a good guy guilt tripped, misquoted, and used by prosecutors to get PSU in the case. His reconstructed memory of long ago events is now altered by recent revelations.
The prosecution has not identified the boy from the night of March 1, 2002 to our knowledge. The defense for Sandusky says the boy in question has indicated that "he was not a victim" *(appendix B)
Can you honestly say that you would involve police if you had not read the misleading Presentment and knew Sandusky only as founder of a great charity and foster father of six, based on Mike's suspicions of slapping sounds and a 3 second glance? That's the second question you need to answer.
If I heard Mike describe his experience as seconds viewing Jerry's back in what he was not certain was sexual I would not involve police. What would I tell them? A graduate assistant glimpsed naked Jerry's back for one or two seconds and thought it might be "extremely sexual"? No I would call Sandusky for an explanation and the name and number of the boy just as Tim Curley did.
Is this some episode of the TWILIGHT ZONE come to life in Happy Valley? A mountain has been made from the distorted molehill of the Victim 2 charges.
1) Grand Jury Presentment describes the 3 second glance molehill as "anal intercourse" seen by McQueary - A LIE - Mike did not testify to seeing anal intercourse.
2) The Attorney General's office writes a misleading victim 2 section and deliberately choses to hide that distorted molehill in a mountain of other evidence. (the 40 count 23 page presentment)
3) Then the prosecution leaks or presents this mountain with the distorted molehill to the MEDIA without the slightest description of what it truly represented offering Mike as the "EXTREMELY CREDIBLE" witness. If Mike is "extremely credible" why was he misquoted? The third question you need to answer.
4) The MEDIA then creates a range of Himalayas out of the few seconds described as the "saw".. "anal intercourse" molehill. Failing to question the nature of the presentment and producing dozens of stories as unassailable FACT they report "GA saw anal intercourse Paterno and PSU ignored and covered up" creating the non-existent PENN STATE SEX SCANDAL. see the APPENDIX A below
Consider this one my UP YOURS to a misleading Attorney General, a back stabbing Board of Turncoats Trustees, and the media that bought distortions like WMD's in Iraq, because they KNEW this victim-less* few seconds deserved the full attention of police in advance of the 23 page 40 count misleading presentment
*Only if Victim 2 comes forward and substantiates Mike McQueary's suspicions is there a case for these counts of the indictment. Even that does not correct the weakness of Mike's statements under oath or the misconduct of the Attorney General's office in publishing such a damaging distortion in their Presentment.
I pray the victims testimony will put Jerry Sandusky where he belongs while fearing the prosecutions distortions might give the defense a 'reasonable doubt' issue that could damage their case. I expect to hear the victim 2 and perjury charges have been dismissed prior to trial due to lack of evidence.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and New Year to my new found friends at BSD. This one is my Christmas present to you all - it's been interesting and enjoyable getting to know you. I wish you all the best. I hope this more concise dismantling of the non-existent PENN STATE SEX SCANDAL travesty accurately presents the true facts useful for doubting friends and relatives over the holidays.
APPENDIXES
A Exact text of the Grand Jury Presentment - A distortion of Mike McQueary's testimony as clearly stated under oath at the Preliminary Hearing on the Perjury charges. Mike did not see anal intercourse and was not "100% sure" of anything. That is already reasonable doubt by the "most credible witness".
B The defense for Sandusky says the boy in question is willing to testify that "he was not a victim"
C Tweets of Testimony from Friday Dec. 16, 2011 Perjury Hearing and Perjury Hearing Transcript just added
A He then heard rhythmic slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the Graduate Assistant put the sneakers in his locker he saw a naked boy, victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed both victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. He left immediately, distraught." "He testified in the Grand Jury in December of 2010. The Grand Jury finds the graduate assistants testimony to be extremely credible."
B - Attorney Joe Amendola said a man who says he is Victim Two came to his office and contradicted the statements made by Mike McQueary about what he allegedly witnessed in a shower in 2002. "He sat here with his mother and brother and said he was not a victim."
C McQuery first saw shower scene in a mirror
McQueary: only looked at Jerry for a second or two total.
McQueary says "I did not see insertion or hear screaming or yelling"
McQueary said I can’t say 100 percent sure that intercourse was happening
McQueary: two glances were 1 or 2 seconds long. multiple showers were on
McQuery "based on slapping sounds, I contrived a visual of what was happening, Then I glanced "That first look through the mirror, I didn't know what to think."
How long in locker room? McQuery: "No longer than a minute, I'd say 45seconds."
"I cannot say I saw Sandusky's hands on the boy." McQueary "I wouldn't use the word intercourse. I would say extreme sexual act. I think was intercourse." But did not see "insertion" Was the boy bent over or standing up? Standing up.
McQueary can't remember if Sandusky had an erection. "I didn't look down there."
McQ says he did not see pain on the boys face"
McQueary says "yes he left the boy naked in the shower with Sandusky"
Disclaimer: This comprises my final analysis of the situation that led to the vilification of Joe and PSU. It was unjust and manufactured by distortion and a lie. All along I've lobbied for patience and restraint - to stop the rush to judgment. This fanpost is my best argument in defense of everyone at Penn State - a minority opinion I believe is far more studied and plausible than 99% of the media's output. No matter how all this turns out, I believe in the basic goodness of the people at Penn State who have been harmed by the way this was handled from the Attorney General to the BOT and the media. Agree or not - it's your choice - but for me this is about simple truth and fairness and the AG, BOT, and Media denied Joe and PSU simple fairness. The AG could have simply told the truth in the presentment - that would have been fair The media could have done their jobs and questioned the AG - that would be fair and the BOT could have backed their coach and school - that would have been fair and right.
All comments, votes, FaceBook likes, and recommendations are appreciated. Getting the word out to the rest of the world is what will be required to right the wrong done to Joe and PSU by the AG, BOT, and Media. - Thank you.
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Jerry Sandusky gets my vote.
And thanks for your contributions . . . my vote is not a slight on your work or your insight.
Jerry Sandusky gets my vote for the Sandusky Sex Scandal - not the fake Penn State Sex Scandal
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 21, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I pray that one day
the general public will learn to seperate the two. There is no Penn State Scandal
by The Booster on Dec 22, 2011 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I get that.
I agree. I make the same argument daily and religiously, but without Jerry, the question isn’t even asked.
Thanks aurabass - but is there any recourse for PSU?
Regardless of the perjury charges and victim 2 charges, it is clear that the Grand Jury distorted the facts. Assume that McQuearys description of the events from the perjury pretrial match those of his testimony given in front of the grand jury in the Sandusky case (for Big Red’s sake, this better be true).
If so, there is clear evidence that the Grand Jury is untruthful by stating McQueary saw anal intercourse.
Could Penn State file a defamation lawsuit because of this? I will be the first to admit I know very little about Law practice but it is painfully obvious the GJ was written to tie PSU to the case.
I am glad I don’t live in the state of PA with Corbett holding such a high position. That guy is a snake and it certainly seems that he used PSU for his own political agenda.
Finally, the Big Ern is above the law!
by MillerBoi on Dec 22, 2011 12:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
The Governor and Attorney General are both elected in Pennsylvania
It would seem the combined voting power of all PSU students, alumni, employees, and their families, friends, and associates would make a powerful voting block to spare the state of those who so misused their power. – That’s one avenue of recourse.
I don’t know enough about the legal implications of a state university suing the state AG but it does not seem likely. First I think the alumni and students who agree with this assessment of the situation need to get it in front of the Governor and BOT and those who elect BOT members.
First change the perceptions of those who love Penn State and get them to recognize this travesty for what it is.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thank you, aurabass
Now if we could just get this message across to the world outside BSD…
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 6:17 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Agreed.
Thank you, aurabass, for all of your contributions here. They have been great and edifying reads. I hope you continue posting here on any topic.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 22, 2011 6:23 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
leeharvey
Perhaps starting with a Facebook group – for the 21 who have so far LIKED this entry. I think I’ve seen as many as a few thousand doing that on a post or two here.
Using the social media to spread the work is a beginning
2nd current residents of State College or the nearby area along with students need to figure out the best way to publicize and enlist residents, students, alumni and faculty to hold a Joe Paterno Appreciation Day with a lot of publicity and try to force the administration to schedule a exonerate Joe Paterno – Joe Paterno appreciation – Joe Paterno retirement celebration at an important PSU ballgame early next season and get publicity out for that with maybe a full page of the program devoted to the information here on BSD like this or other posts that simply tell the truth about the Grand Jury distortions.
And there must be a student newspaper that would publish this information along with the local State College paper. Start in State College and at PSU to get everyone there informed about the distortion in the GJ presentment. That should be fairly easy to get widespread agreement on.
and that will put pressure on the prosecution and the AG to admit they misrepresented the truth when they published “Mike saw anal intercourse”
Once that lie is admitted and accepted it should be relatively easy to rehabilitate Joe Paterno locally. Do that and the BOT is in very hot water and that will spread nationally I think
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 6:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
There is an I support JoePa FB page
We need to get this posted there and everywhere we can. Maybe we can forward to some MSM sources?
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you for notifying us of this – here’s the link:
http://www.facebook.com/ISupportJoePaterno
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 22, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I posted it on the "I support JoePa" one
under one of my other aliases.
If you’re on facebook and haven’t joined/liked that page yet, now is as good a time as any!
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
actually SJ... I posted it there the minute it came up...
I just hope he links it again… and again….
All of our comments are irrelevant - LetsGoPSU
How much would it cost to publish this
as a full page ad in USA Today?
We could start a collection.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's a good idea. I'm in
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am also in.
"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."
Joe Paterno
by The Heel on Dec 22, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you, aurabass
"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." ~Robert Kennedy
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby
by nps on Dec 22, 2011 7:20 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Thank you nps
I think you would be a person I would very much like to know
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 6:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I've always liked Rocky Top.
Smokey the Blue Tick Coon Hound, the fight song, the look the stadium broadcast in High Definition (Hello…). I toured their campus back in the day when I was trying to decide where I wanted to go to school and enjoyed my time there quite a bit.
Thank you for your investigative prowess, point of view, and accuracy. If Penn State and Tennessee should meet in one of those Florida bowls sometime soon, we’ll have to share some thoughts and spirits in person.
by The Booster on Dec 22, 2011 8:16 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
That would be my pleasure
let us hope it will be sooner rather than later in Orlando or Tampa
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Excellent and well written.....
but nobody will read it because it makes sense along with truth and a time line. As long as we have people involved(PSU haters, Joe Haters, the Media, effin’ Politicians tBoT, any “search” committeeand the generally uninformed) the real truth will be uncovered, trial or no trial. The reputations of GOOD men and tPSU Program can never be restored. I hardly ever use NEVER*, but I think that this is the proper word to use at this time. Years will never erase the thoughts of some that say Joe is at the center of tScandal, MM was a coward for not acting properly, the blogger participants who know what they would have done in that “situation” hiding behind the anonimity of their laptops, the knee-jerk reaction of the Lords at PSU and, of course, the sanctimonius Media. Will we ever put at the top of the list how JS and his minions manipulated, and continue to do so, this Tragedy? Probably never*.(see above). It saddens me that years from now, PSU will be known for THIS and not primarily for the excellent academics, athletics, and good deeds that it was and is.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Dec 22, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Derry, I respect your opinion and I do think there is a chance that will happen. On the other hand, Americans are very fickle, shallow, and have collective ADD. Time will pass and probably sooner than we all expect, this will no longer be a story. More time will pass and attitudes will begin to change. I’m not saying that this will be forgotten by any means, but quite honestly, people don’t really care. If it doesn’t impact them personally, they will move on.
The Penn State faithful will continue to prove that our university did an excellent job preparing us to enter the work force and be upstanding citizens. Our students will continue to be involved with activities like THON and our athletes will continue to win accolades on the field and in the classroom.
My only major concern is how the administration will act in the long term as they could reverse any positive thing we may achieve. My recommendation is that Penn State be turned into a private institution. Then we can cut all the state strings that only hold us down with very little financial benefit.
I hope you don’t know something I don’t know and that is why you have been so pessimistic lately. I wish there would be a light at the end of the tunnel sooner rather than later.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Agree with you Derry
But I still think it is important to tell the story.
Right after this broke, I wore my Penn State hat out at a bar. I spoke to some “haters” about the need to understand the facts before rushing to judgement. I was met with scorn, sarcasm, and constant refrain of “but there were kids involved.” The person I was with told me that I wasn’t going to convince anyone. I agreed, but still thought it was important to tell the story.
I think we have to keep putting the facts out there, whether we convince anyone or not.
by dontcallmescooter on Dec 22, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Timing of the release of the Grand Jury Presentment
Aurabass – Thank you. Nice summary.
I have been somewhat concerned about the timing of the release of the presentment in addition to its inflammatory tone. It seems as if it was calculated to do the most harm to Penn State, coming after Paterno achieved the career record for wins. While I would have been incensed if justice were to be delayed until after a football season, the timing of the end of this three year investigation just strikes me as suspicious.
Does anybody have any thoughts, knowledge, or insight about the timing of the release of the presentment?
by dontcallmescooter on Dec 22, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I completely agree!!!!
And I’ve been wondering this the entire time, too! Why did it come out on the Friday of our bye week? Who leaked it? It is very, very suspicious.
Nice to know someone else is wondering the same things, scooter.
It is what it is...
by tadhg on Dec 22, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The state needs be investigated…
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This has pretty much been my sentiment since day one.
Between the lack of oversight, and the willingness to accept Spanier’s ’we’re only sorta-public’ bullshit, I see as much culpability in Harrisburg as I do in Old Main.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
How does one begin an investigation?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I mean what, I know what not to do....
Don’t talk to Schultz….
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm truly hoping that Freeh's report brings this up.
Maybe I’m being naive, but from what I’ve read about him, he’s doesn’t seem to be afraid to point out systematic flaws.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think we should make a formal request of investigators
like I posted in our Statement of Concern thread here
Asking investigators to look into a finding of fact on misconduct from the Attorney General in the wording of the Presentment followed by misconduct by the Board of Trustees in firing JoePa as a result of the prosecutors inappropriate presentment and the frenzy of media misinformation it produced inflaming public opinion might be a reasonable option.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 6:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was going back even further with my comment above.
For years (going back to when Tom Ridge was governor), the conflict between Graham Spanier and the state has fostered an environment where the University has become more and more insular. One of the things that stung me the most in the immediate post-presentment coverage was the repeated referrals to ’Joe’s fiefdom’ – from my perspective, if anybody set up a fiefdom in University Park, it was Graham Spanier. For all the bitching that came from both sides, all involved parties apparently recognized that the system was working to grow the University. At the same time, though, the environment where an un-sworn ‘officer’ with obvious conflicts of interest was allowed to represent Police Services, developed.
I’m getting uncomfortably close to tin-foil hat territory with this train of thought, so I’ll just let what I’ve said stand while I wait to see what Freeh’s report says.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 23, 2011 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
NLC Renewals!!
Was it just a coincidence that the promotion with point incentives for early NLC renewals occurred in the month or two before the release?
Perhaps this is a collander-hat-wearing conspiracy akin to Gricar being snuffed by Food Services for having gained access to the Chicken Cosmo recipe from “he who will not be named” in exchange for dropping the 1998 investigation.
Or is it?
Lawsuits doubtful
As officials of PA state agencies the misguided officials (and agencies) are generally protected from lawsuits (for example, see the limited exceptions under PA’s sovereign immunity act.
Stop blaming Joe -- media mobs!
Nominate - Elect Franco Harris, Brandon Short, Jimmy Cefalo to BoT (and vote out incumbents for next three years)
by OlderBudweiser on Dec 22, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions
Hard to Believe there are 3 people who would read this
and blame the fake PSU Sex Scandal on a moral failure by JoePa.
Not only do they seriously lack intelligence but they don’t have the guts to post a comment.to display their inability to reason.
Sorry but anyone who finds this to be Joe Paterno’s fault after being given the facts is a blithering idiot and I realize it makes me uncivil and intolerant but #$% them. If they are entitled to that opinion I guess they are entitled to my scorn.
Maybe 3 a-holes out of 220 isn’t unusual. There are a couple of nimrods in every crowd.
Maybe they just cannot read or think?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 12:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Please stop with the "fake sex scandal" stuff. Please.
It’s very, very real, and it involves alleged crimes in Penn State facilities, reported to (and at best, disregarded by) Penn State officials. It involves a monster of a person allegedly using his influence and access to the Penn State football program to assault children, including taking them to team meals, bowl games, etc. It involves the horrific misuse of a charity which was fully intertwined with Penn State. The athletic director, university president, and yes, head coach knew that something very wrong had happened under their watch.
Yes, Sandusky is the monster here. However, institutionally, Penn State owns this scandal and needs to own it.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 22, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Aurabass is not saying the Sex Scandal is fake...
…he’s saying that it’s a Sandusky scandal, not a Penn State scandal. Yes, some of the alleged crimes happened at PSU, but only the Victim 2 incident was known to PSU officials. Yes, portions of the 1998 incident were known, but not the extent of that alleged victim’s testimony. Without McQueary, whose testimony now appears very likely to be better for Sandusky’s defense tan for the prosecution;s case, there are NO witnesses, and it will rely solely on the alleged victims’ testimony. I hope they are credible because I want Sandusky to be put away also with the harshest possible punishment if he’s as guilty as he appers.
by LDRB on Dec 22, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Oh, I know exactly what he's saying.
And I admire his dedication to it, but I think he’s wrong when he writes that it’s not a Penn State scandal.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 22, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
It's a problem that involves very important people at Penn State
but it was not systemic and in that sense not a Penn State issue.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We're arguing semantics.
Were the chair of the Meterology department and the Nittany Lion mascot involved? No. But when the President, AD, Head Coach, and Dude In Charge Of Police Or Whatever are involved, that cuts a pretty wide swath of institutional responsibility.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 22, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
If there was a crime
Committed by JS in march 2002 than yes there is a PSU scandal, but I disagree if no crime was in that shower that night. And until I see sone hard evidence (one person’s recall from 9 years ago isn’t exactly hard evidence and neither is a grand jury presentment).
I agree that it's a Penn State scandal...
but I see the main issue as being contained within Old Main, not the Lasch Building. At the risk of rehashing arguments that have been stated previously, I’ll just say that I vehemently disagreed with you before when you stated that ’it’s a Football problem’ – this is doing nothing but give ammunition to the idiots who say that there was definitely a coverup, and its sole purpose was to protect the Football program.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
It was an Old Main and State of Pennsylvania problem.
Once information gets up that far, it’s out of the hands of anyone below that level.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I don't understand why
They are all still in power while the football program is taking the full brunt of the pain.
Well, I understand why, but I don’t agree with it and I wish there was more of an outcry for further info on the upper level’s involvement in this, not JoePa’s. His role was minor compared to why the governor of PA who started the initial investigation DID NOT notify the Second Mile or supposedly the BOT until recently. That’s completely irresponsible – boardering on criminal if there was even the CHANCE that JS could have committed more crimes during that period.
This whole thing needs to be refocused.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
It's an Everyone Problem.
It’s a football and Old Main problem. Everyone failed along the way here, from the moment McQueary looked in those mirrors. And that doesn’t even address the 1998 failures.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 22, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
So if you're including 1998...
then I’m hoping you’re including Centre County when you say ‘everyone problem’, yes?
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I agree.
But I think those who have more reponsibility in dropping the ball are state officials who knew of past incidents, and the upper levels at Penn State who did not follow through. Even if MM royally dropped the ball, those above him should have known better and fixed it.
To those who have been given much, much is expected.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I believe
he’s been focusing more on the facts showing that it involved PSU a little more than it should have. Maybe using the word “fake PSU” is an unwise choice of words, so I feel like I can understand your point of view on not minimizing the situation or the fact that some of the alleged incidents happened on PSU property.
However, when you say that those folks “knew that something very wrong had happened” it shows that you may not be getting one of the key points aurabass has been making. The details we have now seem to show it is very likely they weren’t sure what happened or how bad it was and THAT is probably why the incident didn’t get investigated more at the time.
For the record, I am skeptical of this (mostly because I WANT to believe it so much). However, I do feel it is a reasonable position based on the facts we have now.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I could not disagree with you more Chris
and there is no reason to rehash what I’ve explained quite clearly in my fanpost
So I suggest you find the wording you find in error in what I have written in the fanpost and explain to me and those who agree with me what your problem is with that wording and characterization.
I do not believe you are correct in saying “alleged crimes in Penn State facilities, reported to (and at best, disregarded by) Penn State officials” My reading of the testimony tweeted during the perjury hearing is that there was no report of a crime – only a suspicion based on some slapping sounds and a glance at Jerry Sandusky’s back by a young man who left the boy in the shower with a man he alleges was assaulting the boy.
No need to review the reasoning it’s all there in the fanpost.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
When you call it a 'fake' or 'fake Penn State' scandal you are gravley in error
I believe JoPa was used as a scapegoat in this case, but he is not without responsibility. He is not the cause of the scandal, nor is he the bad actor, nor did he act in bad faith, most likely, but he erred in judgment and he believes that himself as he has said.
The BIG problem with your whole shtick is that this is very much a Penn State scandal in that Penn State’s facility was used as a safe haven for a serial rapist to victimize helpless little boys and several Penn State OFFICIALS were aware of it and did little to stop it.
You can banter back anf forth all you want about the legal proceedings but Sandusky is a predator and Penn State allowed him to get away with it for a decade. MM knows it, Jopa knows it and the shmucks that are trying to save their own skin know it.
JoPa didn’t deserve the treatment he got but he should have stepped down to avoid it. Once the Grand Jury came back the train had left the station and he stood right in the middle of the track for it to run him over.
I think people will realize the JoPa wasn’t a bad guy in all this but they will always agree with him that he should have done more.
But trying to pretend that Penn State is a clean innocent victim in this is a HUGE disservice to Penn State.
Let the light shine on it, deal with it and NEVER again.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
OK... I get it... Penn State enables child molesters
by that same token and withe the same amount of responsibility, the entire state of Pennsylvania enables child molesters. The former DA of Centre county enables child molesters. The Police enable child molesters. The governor knew about it while he was the AG of the state and he is in charge of pennsylvania, so he allowed it to go on.
What aurabass (who is not now or has ever been affiliated with Penn State) is arguing is that the whole reason PSU was even dragged into this is false. Its not baseless, as we have learned later, but it is false.
Now were the PSU facilities used? Yes, it is not a stretch to believe that they were. Were officials aware of it? We don’t know. What we do know is that the officials knew that there was showering together going on, and that the police and DA passed on filing charges at least once on this matter.
Im not here to banter about the legal proceedings either…. never really cared much for courts of law. In hindsight, yes, everyone knows that Sandusky is a predator, but do you really think that all those people thought so AT THE TIME? In other words, are you seriously advocating that the University said to itself “This guy preys on little kids, lets make it easier on him and harder on ourselves” Do you really think that anyone at the school thinks or believes this?
Hmmm Joe should have stepped down to avoid that treatment. Umm He did. He offered his head on a platter, to help the university. And the BofT said now… we want it now. Honestly, as loathe as I am to admit it, it probably spared him some horrible treatment for the last three games, and might have actually been better for him than staying. The fact remains that he actually already offered it up.
Joe didnt say that he should have done more. He said He wished he had done more. Its a measure of regret, not of guilt. He said he was fooled, as were many professionals. His error in judgement was what exactly? That he didnt recognize a monster? Child molesters dont have a look. They are frequently pillars of the community, respected by many. Does this mean that we should suspect everyone that works with children? Every teacher? Oh Goodness, that teacher is really trying to teach that young child. That teacher has to be a molester.
I dont have a problem with total transparency. I am happy that Mr Freesh is there to do an investigation. I dont want stuff like that to happen again anywhere. I am horrified to realize that it will happen again somewhere. I am horrified to realize that it has happened at other places as well. I hope that our school can help bring about policies and procedures to handle such things in the future.
I hope the light does shine on Penn State, because it seems there is a lot less culpability there than you think.
Never again.
All of our comments are irrelevant - LetsGoPSU
by jaytay13 on Dec 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
A guy in my hometown was just given eight to thirty for sexually assaulting three teenage boys.
This stuff is everywhere and the way we as a society are reacting to it is simply pathetic.
"Woop woop." - Waylon Jennings
by ReadingRambler on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
So, because Mike McQuerey didn't go over and check to see if the naked old man's body part was actually
‘enqaged’ with the young boy bent over in front of him in the shower you think its false that MM caught him raping the boy?
Are are you trying to say the ten year old boy wanted it?
You folks need to back away from your emotion and realize that you are all making it much worse with this us against the world crap.
If you care about Penn State you should be pushing for the prosecution of WHOMEVER participated in covering this up.
And JoPa did not step down, he said don’t spend one minute worrying about me, blah, blah, blah…
I hate it for JoPa and I literally prayed that he would step down that day because ANYBODY outside looking in could have told you that the BOT was gonna run over JoPa and never look back.
By allowing that to happen JoPa cemented the public preception that he was involved in the cover up, an that is, in fact, a shame.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!
No...
and obviously you paying attention during the perjury trial. No I think even MM isnt sure what he saw. I know he said that the boy wasnt bent over in front of him… rather that he was standing straight up.
Im saying that MM said he did not see him raping that boy. I’m saying he thought something bad had happened, something sexual had or was happening. Im saying he himself claims he saw no insertion, and couldnt even tell you if the guy was excited or not. Im saying there is a lot more to the story than what ESPN says.
I’m saying there is no cover up. No one determined that this should be swept under the rug for the goodness of the university. There were a couple people that were incompetent. They might even have been negligent. But to infer that it was a coverup based on the fact that both JoePa and MM told people what was going on? That’s truly stretching a point. Even kids trying to cover up stuff from Mom know that their stories have to match. Curley, Schultz, JoePa, and MM’s stories all differ.
Now… if more comes to light and it turns out indeed that the school literally swept it under the rug, and were just worse at it than 10 year old boys would be. Then I will truly be ashamed about my school. Ashamed about my association with it. I would gladly and with great pride and pleasure roast said conspirators on a stick. I just doubt that is going to be the case.
JoePa announced that he would step down at the end of the year. Read the note. It has some great quotes in it….
“That’s why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.”
“This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this university.”
So he put his head upon a platter, offered himself up, after keeping his commitments. Now you can tell me that he wasnt actually stepping down, but he said he was. Right there. Announcing that he wasnt coming back, and that he would spend the rest of his life helping the school.
The BoT ran over JoePa to cave to media pressure, by their own admission, before all the facts were in. I already said that I thought it was probably better that way, but in reality, it was still caving. Maybe JoePa thought the BoT represented Penn State. The place where you do the right thing, even if it isnt the easy thing.
I didnt say that your quarterback should be dismissed from the team for stomping that marine. I don’t know anyone here that did. Then he was exonerated. Wow, wouldnt it have been bad to have dismissed him before all the facts had come out?
Look.. I’m not going to argue any more with you about this. You have your opinions, and I respect your right to have them. Our differences lie in that you assume that there has been a coverup and I assume there isn’t. Time will tell who is right.
Look.. I’m not going to argue any more with you about this. You have your opinions, and I respect your right to have them. Our differences lie in that you assume that there has been a coverup and I assume there isn’t. Time will tell who is right.
All of our comments are irrelevant - LetsGoPSU
by jaytay13 on Dec 22, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Southern Man? Try reading the post and the evidence
You might learn something like this:
your statement:
So, because Mike McQuerey didn’t go over and check to see if the naked old man’s body part was actually enqaged’ with the young boy bent over in front of him in the shower you think its false that MM caught him raping the boy?
I know THIS STATEMENT FROM YOU is FALSE – what else do I need to know
It has been clearly stated by Mike McQueary that the boy WAS NOT BENT OVER – he was standing up straight. MIke said this under oath in his Perjury hearing testimony.
But you did not bother to read my “shtick”
Seem my “shtick” is based on testimony under oath and evidence
the links are in the fanpost and all you have to do is read the evidence
and your “wisdom” is based on what exactly?
Try being informed before you make your opinions known sometime.
It is far less embarrassing – and yes I would be embarrassed if I were you.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I know the LSU 'southern man' did not read the evidence
study the evidence or even bother to comprehend the post he describes as my “shtick”. If he had he would know some simple truth.
Mike Mcqueary by his own admission under oath had less than 3 seconds of direct observation of Sandusky’s back – he had the young boy in front of him and both were standing up.
That is not evidence of anal intercourse and Mike stated that it was not.
READ THE FANPOST CAREFULLY THIS TIME LSU SOUTHERN MAN
then try to post something that makes sense in light of the EVIDENCE not your pathetic misconceptions. OK?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 3:47 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"Maybe they just cannot read or think?"
Aurabass…you think? My negativity about this whole mess has caused me not to “think” properly at times considering the comments that some make about Joe and PSU in general. Anything that is printed or said is “gospel” to some and that bothers me most. Thinking people like you are similar to an oasis in the desert; we can see you but we just cannot get there in regards to the TRUTH. Your uses of the words such as “nimrods”, “blithering idiots”, “uncivil” and “intolerant” allow us to use the counter words of “#$%” and “a-holes” . I am starting to feel a little better, hoping that Joe will stand the pressure of physical and mental issues, and that sane, reasonable people will overcome this whole tragedy at PSU.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Dec 22, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
In crazy times, crazy people seem sane, and sane people seem crazy.
by dontcallmescooter on Dec 22, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
That statement applies...
to a lot more than this situation. Look at the state of Congress!
by LDRB on Dec 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, we're never gonna survive, unless, we get a little crazy
If I was there when he first took the pill then maybe, maybe, maybe
Miracles can happen as we speak, oh yeah
I just read.
I agree with your wording.
It is not a Penn State sex scandal. They own none of it, nor should they let people continue to lie about their role.
What Abount Schultz and the 1998 Incident?
Aurabass,
I’ve read everything you’ve written and cannot thank you enough for your thought provoking insight. I’ve sent links to your blogs to multiple people. Whether they will take the time to read them is another matter… But one thing in all this troubles me. What about Schultz’s involvement (if that’s the right word) in the 1998 incident that led to no charges. Many people use this incident as evidence that there was a “pattern” with Sandusky and that this alone should have led to more proactive action in 2002. I understand your perspective that if Schultz felt 1998 was a non-issue since no charges were filed, and since he knew Jerry as a “big kid”, that he might dismiss the 2002 incident. But it seems impossible to convince the general public and media jackals of this. Further, it seems impossible to convince these same people that Paterno didn’t know about the 1998 incident. This majority seems convinced he must have known, even though no public statements to this effect have been made by anyone associated with the formal legal process. it seems that many, many people are simply unwilling to listen. That’s why it’s so frustrating.
by LDRB on Dec 22, 2011 12:57 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
And......
THIS is why I get upset about the whole "deal. Will we ever know the TRUTH??? As long as we don’t, the naysayers have every right to their theories and views.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Dec 22, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know...
if the whole truth will ever come out. I just know that the whole thing has just about wrung me out completely. I am from a full family of Penn Staters and am probably the most avid supporter of my entire family. I can’t and won’t abandon PSU, regardless of what happens. But i can abandom the current BoT if it’s proven they were to harsh in their haste.
I WILL do my part to adandon the current BoT
at least the ones I can vote against in the next election.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That’ll be 2 next year, and 3 per year in 2013 and 2014. I’ll be joining you in that effort.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 22, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Excellent
Let’s be sure to do a fanpost when the time comes!
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Dec 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed.
I’ll be anxiously awaiting the ballot info in the mail in 2012.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Dec 22, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's not just Schultz and the 1998 incident...
it’s every entity that was involved and deemed that there wasn’t so much as enough evidence to bar Sandusky from involvement with kids through Second Mile, let alone file criminal charges, let alone get a conviction.
Yes, what was contained in the Grand Jury presentment regarding Sandusky’s statements to the kid’s mother is pretty damning, but it obviously wasn’t enough for Gricar to pursue the matter, or for CPS to take action. I’m willing to accept that Paterno knew something was up with an investigation into Sandusky in 1998, and that that was likely a contributing factor into him being pushed out, but I see no reason to think that Joe knew all the details of the investigation. Joe doesn’t strike me as the type to allow rumor-mongering on his staff, so I see a couple of scenarios that could have happened – either Joe talks to Sandusky, who is evasive, and this contributes to Sandusky being pushed out, or Joe just sees that the quickest way to get rid of the rumors is to get rid of the subject. Either way, there’s a perfectly plausible scenario wherein Joe doesn’t know every detail but still wants Sandusky gone.
Sorry for the blatant conjecture – as a person who has been saying that I want facts before passing judgement, I should be more patient sometimes.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
If the headlines aren't going to be "Sandusky Scandal"
The next most accurate by far is “The Second Mile Scandal”
Channel 21 Harrisburg calls it the Sandusky scandal, I believe Patriot News does when Ganin is the byline
I just read.
by BMAN13 on Dec 22, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Altoona-Johnstown does as well.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 22, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Few and far between, but glad to hear it.
There are small glimmers of hope.
by FB6244 on Dec 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is good to know a few places have it right
but they seem to be in a significant minority
The major media groups and ESPN all seem to label this the Penn State Sex Scandal and that is the common understanding in the public
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
My thoughts on the 1998 incident's effect on Schultz
Some here want to infer the 98 incident should have caused red flags for Schultz and Spanier. I argue just the opposite. There is evidently a 90 page file on that investigation that ended in no charges. Just a possibly overwrought (maybe Catholic) mother who knew Jerry showered with her boy and hugged him. That leads me to think Schulz would have a preconceived idea that Jerry hugged boys in the shower as horseplay with no sexual intent. The decision not to prosecute or bring charges actually COULD have worked in Jerry’s favor.
Schultz I believe said his reaction to the McQueary information was “We’ve been down this road before” because the shower incident in 98 seemed similar to Schultz. There was a 90 page file on that investigation that led to NO CHARGES.
Some folks think showering with young boys is an automatic red flag in any situation and in hindsight it should have been here. But Sandusky was known as founder of a charity for troubled boys and the foster father of six. It seems it might be less obvious in his case since he was trying to ‘father’ these fatherless kids.
To the outside world it would seem that Sandusky loved children and went out of his way to help them – now we know why – but nobody had a clue in 2002. Ted Bundy had loving girlfriends and they didn’t know he was a psychopathic murderer. He appeared to be a charismatic guy.like Hannibal Lecter seemed to be a brilliant psychologist.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see how anyone could draw the conclusion...
…that Joe knew of the 1998 incident. That matter, as we heard in testimony, was investigated by the DA and University PD and ended up with no charges being filed. Whether that was right or wrong is not the issue, the important fact is: no charges were filed.
Let’s look at this from a non-university environment perspective: Let’s say you were being investigated for committing a possible crime, would the police and DA necessarily go to your employer and say “We are investigating your employee for X.” I don’t think so, especially, as was appartently the case here, when a case could not be developed.
Yes, campus police informed Schultz, they reported into him and they had to. Would it have been proper Schultz to inform the employer (Coach Paterno)? NO! and HELL NO!! What if, for argument sake, he had and none of it was true, and as a result Sandusky was summarily fired? I could imagine that law suit.
Now if you would like to argue that Schultz was aware of the 1998 incident (smoke) and then became aware of the 2002 incident (more smoke) he should have investigated a potential fire, I would agree. But that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about the feasibility that Joe Paterno (Happy belated by the way) knew of the 1998 incident. In my reasonable mind…there is no way that is the case.
by ljdevine on Dec 22, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
My point is it would not have mattered if Joe knew of an investigation
because the rather extensive (90 page report filed) investigation turned up no criminal intent and no prosecution or charges.
If Sandusky was not found to be charged in the 98 investigation for showering with a boy why would anyone who knew of the extensive investigation automatically think this time he would be charged? I would think the opposite and I imagine most people would if they thought about it clearly.
This was a charity founder and father to six foster kids who was extensively investigated and not charged because a mother objected to him hugging her son in a shower. For all anyone knew from Mike’s 3 second observation Sandusky once again hugged a kid in a shower. What is that a PATTERN of ? I say it’s a pattern of hugging kids in showers if the guy is a charity founder and respected community member with 6 foster kids and a history of fostering and caring for children. It does not automatically raise suspicion of sexual intent particularly when the boy’s in question did not show distress or pain or discomfort.
Yes we know that any usual contact like that would raise red flags but we also know that Sandusky very carefully crafted a 30 year reputation for helping young boys – likely for that very reason. Sandusky did a great job of covering his bases. Most people who knew him would be totally fooled and they were.
That does not make anyone in the public, press, or prosecutors office better people that Joe Tim or Gary. They were not confronted with a “charity saint” in who was a wolf in a very carefully crafted disguise. Most of us would have been fooled and we know it.
It does not make anyone a superior person to self-righteously claim otherwise.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 4:03 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Can we focus all of our time, energy and passion
For accomplishing something and not just rehashing all the wonderful details? I’m not sure I’m creative enough to figure out what that would be, but we’ve got to do something.
All this talk might make us feel better, but we’re not accomplishing anything, are we?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 1:41 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agree.
All the same, though, I do find that it’s easier to argue IRL when I’ve had the argument here a few times.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Very true.
Adults learn through repetition, so the more we are able to practice the discussion here, the better we will be at defending this position in real life.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Exactly
I know my attention has allowed me to become far more conversant with the issues and the testimony. This is the number one story of the year with a vast amount of information that must be parsed down to some very specific points to capture attention in the abbreviated attention span of the public and media.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
First we have to arrive at a consensus about what has happened
particularly in regard to the prosecutions misrepresentation of Mike’s testimony
and the misrepresentation of the media.
The Curley and Schultz pieces seem to offer more cause for division
but even that rush to judgment should not be tolerated.
But if we could get over 80% agreement on the mistreatment of Joe Paterno and the Penn State name that would give us a place to launch a concerted action against the Attorney geneeral and the media and BOT. I think we have that from the votes on the question above.
Now add that to the 20,000 I support JoePa on Facebook and the 160,000 supporters on the JoePa facebook page and there is a sizable audience for a campaign for awareness. But the student body, faculty and alumni are are all rather easy to reach.
So I suggest some of you try to write a concise STATEMENT of CONCERN about the misleading Grand Jury Presentment and the Media frenzy it created. to see how many people could be found to sign agreement with the statement in order to get an apology from the Attorney General and the Board of Trustees. Those are the two politically vulnerable target groups that could be attacked – the media will be forced to follow that story.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Re: The Letterman’s letter yesterday
I think we can keep it fairly general while still highlighting main points that the majority of us can agree on. Getting bogged down in details will only cause people to disagree. I am not a good writer (engineer) and have no experience with this sort of thing. You’re much better. Want to take a stab at it?
I’m also not that connected (no facebook, no twitter, not hip at all…). We’ll have to work hard to pull everyone together. But everyone knows 20+ people, and then they know more, etc. so it’s feasible.
Does anyone have a good connection with Centre Daily or the Collegian?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Where's Ben? Can we get him back?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Or what about Fooge?
/ducks
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
STATEMENT OF CONCERN AND PURPOSE
STATEMENT OF CONCERN AND PURPOSE
We the undersigned are concerned about the apparent lack of fairness displayed by the office of the Attorney General of Pa in publishing a Grand Jury Presentment that misled the public to believe that Mike McQueary testified to "seeing anal intercourse" as an "extremely credible" witness on March 1, 2002 in the Sandusky sex abuse case. Mike McQueary did not testify that he "saw anal intercourse". That misleading wording in the Victim 2 section of the Grand Jury Finding of Fact led to a media frenzy that inflamed public opinion against Joe Paterno and Penn State University. The public outrage led to the Board of Trustee’s firing of Coach Joe Paterno. We want the Attorney General’s office and the Governor and Board of Trustees to acknowledge that the wording of the presentment was misleading and a destructive distortion of the truth.
We want the Board of Trustees to acknowledge their mistake in hastily dismissing Coach Paterno causing great harm to his reputation and the reputation of the University they were chosen to govern.
something like this could be a starting point for a good writer to craft a statement of purpose and concern
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Something like that without all the anal intercourse quotations. Can we summarize that so it’s a tad more family friendly (to get everyone on board… my grandma isn’t going to read that…)
a little more about due process might be nice too :)
who’s on board?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
It isn't a very family friendly subject
but the exact wording of the misleading distortion has to be referenced. It could be added as an appendix with a caution about the graphic nature of the subject.
My grandmother would be more offended by the abuse of prosecutorial power than the actual wording of the lie or distortion but she was always pretty open-minded and not easily offended by words.
I just offered this as a place to start to get the ball rolling. It should be done by a committee or group of 6 or so. Does anybody know how to do an online meeting using CLOUD or something of that nature where a proposed document could be worked on jointly?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Is this something we want to commit to or I am alone
If so, let’s get a small group together to start getting our act together. let me know. we don’t need to clog the thread with this.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Dec 22, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Since there are at least 2 of us - alone is not a problem
I think maybe Btd or Octashiels would be willing and maybe leeharvey?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am against the purposely harmful context through which these allegations were delivered
The attorney generals office advocated their position strongly – however, when there is a high-profile case that includes many more people than just the accused and victims, it’s irresponsible to purposely pre-package information to be misleading about grand jury testimony. Knowing that the presentment is a public document, I feel that the attorney general had a duty to at the very least provide some sort of disclaimer on the nature of a presentment (prosecutors are, after all, officers of the court with an interest in “finding the truth” and being fair in providing justice coming ahead of prosecuting at all costs), or change the language used to be more objective (i.e. not saying, point blank, that McQueary “saw anal intercourse” when he himself could not affirmatively make that statement when questioned).
I’ll collaborate if I have time.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 22, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, focus on the action & not sweeping statements as to bringing in personalities. Deal w/BOT separately. No one can prove those two words caused the entire frenzy.
“We the undersigned are concerned about the apparent lack of fairness displayed by the office of the Attorney General of Pa in publishing a Grand Jury Presentment that misled the public to believe that Mike McQueary testified to “seeing anal intercourse” as an extremely credible witness on March 1, 2002 in the Sandusky sex abuse case. Mike McQueary did not testify that he “saw anal intercourse”. That misleading wording in the Victim 2 section of the Grand Jury Finding of Fact led to a media frenzy that inflamed public opinion." With no accompanying disclaimer as to the methods by which a Presentment is crafted, it left the public with the opinion these words were exact and unchallenged testimony.
Here...
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 22, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I would be in.
I’m not entirely techno-savvy, but would be willing to sign my name to it or help contribute if needed.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Can we conference before we go global with this?
Hilarious by the way. Ya’ll are awesome.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Hey guys,
Can we get methodical about this? We need the make the friends and alumni voice louder. The goal would be to get positive press and potentially begin to dictate the direction this story is taking – or at least get people to think a little… baby steps are good, right?
If we’re going to do this, I want to do it right. Go big or go home. Let’s determine if we can go big. We need a solid group of less than 10 people who can come up with a good package – we’ll need an online petition people can sign, someone at a local paper to include something to draw attention, connections with facebook/twitter, etc. Also wanted: a background in law, marketing, people with ties to Penn State that can push buttons – boots on the ground if you will, and tech savvy people.
We’ve got the motivation, we’re just a little light on the skills in this area. That’s where we need you. Email me at jat280@gmail.com. I’ll see if we can get a group together and we’re go from there.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Thank you Aurabass.
Please continue with your posts and don’t let certain individuals silence you.
by Btd121 on Dec 22, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
No problem Btd
can you assist with this statement of purpose or concern as a legal mind with writing skill?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 22, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha. I wish I resembled either of those.
I guess I just don’t see much use in going after the prosecutor because this is what they do all the time. I am more pessimistic than Octa. I agree as to what standard prosecutors should be held to, but in reality they so very rarely are.
The guy who really pissed me off was the chief of police.
preliminary C & S hearing text, including some GJ testimony.
http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/Curley-Schultz-Hearing-Transcript.pdf
Cannot believe Schultz (GJ testimony read into record) thought some unnamed person reported 2002 to CYS, but NO ONE had a record of doing so.
Remember
Gary Schultz is trying to recall a 10 minute meeting 10 years ago
And at that time he had every reason to believe Jerry Sandusky was a very respected charity founder of 30 years with six foster kids who were classmates of kids of Paterno and others.
I am certain that Gary must have been horrified to learn of the serious allegations of multiple victims and trying to reconcile his memories with at completely altered perception of Jerry Sandusky in hindsight caused him incredible distress.
It would be like learning your respected long time colleague was a monster when he was known to you as almost a saint. That does not make Gary a bad guy – just a badly fooled guy like so many others. The guy that fooled so many was evidently a master manipulator. If anything I think Gary is the victim of a very good conscience feeling very guilty for not recognizing something it would have been almost impossible for him to recognize?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 7:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Current Poll result and what they mean
Here on a Penn State site it is not surprising that 285 of 327 voters believe the prosecution through the Grand Jury report or the Media or both is most responsible for the Sandusky Second Mile Sex Scandal being hung around the neck of Penn State unfairly A total of 86%
19 see Curley and Schultz as the culprits
9 see Mike McQueary
and a terribly misguided 5 blame JoePa
while another 9 a combination of the 3
or a total of 42 or 14% who think Penn State Sex Scandal is appropriate
and maybe some of the McQueary votes don’t see Penn State as culpable.
This is likely the opposite of the national perception among those who have formed an opinion.
To begin to alter the perceptions we need to construct a clear statement of our positions
Stop the rush to judgment
Dial back your presumptions of guilt
Look at the recent testimony and compare the facts with the perceptions
See where your perceptions came from and reevaluate.
Focus on the facts and not the inflamed rhetoric
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Dec 23, 2011 7:42 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Do you work as a screen writer for infomercials?
Every time I read one of your posts, it brings images of infomercials to my mind.

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