Toxic City: Penn State Falls To Ticket City Bowl
by Chris Grovich on Dec 4, 2011 8:38 PM EST
in Football
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The nightmare bowl scenario unfolded for Penn State Sunday night, as they fell all the way to the #7 Big Ten selection and will play pass-happy Case Keenum and Houston in the TicketCity Bowl. That's noon on January 2nd, on ESPNU, by the way. Set your alarms.
The teams selected ahead of Penn State in the bowl process? Ohio State (6-6) will face Florida in the Gator Bowl. Northwestern (6-6) plays Texas A&M in the Meineke Car Care Bowl. Iowa (7-5) takes on Oklahoma in the Insight Bowl. Penn State (9-3) beat and had won at least two more games than all three of these Big Ten teams -- and it didn't matter, due to the Jerry Sandusky scandal fallout. It's not a fair result for the players, who were justifiably shocked and disappointed in the hours leading up to the formal announcement. It's bowl business, and bowl business isn't fair. It's about advertising and branding.
Considering the way the child molestation accusations were initially buried and the comical institutional ineptness with which Penn State responded after the scandal broke (despite having months to prepare an adequate response), the radioactivity of the Penn State brand with respect to this postseason was unavoidable. Blame ESPN, the New York Times, or whomever else in the media if it makes you feel better. These wounds were self-inflicted in every way, and needlessly so.
Despite the Lions' precipitous drop through the bowl selection process -- a rarity for a program that has routinely jumped other Big Ten teams due to its large and travel-ready fanbase -- Penn State ends up with a rather intriguing matchup against the Cougars.
Houston is dealing with their own form of misery, with their undefeated season coming to a crashing halt in a blowout loss in the Conference USA title game against Southern Miss. Their head coach, Kevin Sumlin, is being talked about for a number of current vacancies, including Texas A&M. Unless Houston ponies up a new contract for Sumlin, we're looking at a battle of interim coaches.
Tickets are selling for as cheap as $25 for lower-level end zone seats. There's also a family four-pack deal: 4 End Zone Game Tickets, 4 Hot Dogs, and 4 Soft Drinks for $99. Use the promo 4PACK for this deal.
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No soft zone or passing on offense, plz
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
I just walked by my desk, looked down, saw my Indiana State game ticket
Such a weird feeling, so much has changed, it’s…… nostalgic, and odd…..
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
If you're not in the title game or a BCS game, I suppose it doesn't really matter
But this still blows.
Follow my antics: @DanVecellio
Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno
Pass rush plz plz plz
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
If we lose this game because of the soft zone
good riddance to Bradley
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Oh, I think it will be ugly in that regard.
Of course Houston’s D sucks, but can PSU’s own sucky offense exploit it? I have my doubts.
We need Sandusky for this one.
Remember Testeverde?
It's that game's fault that the soft zone is PSU's safety blanket defense
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
There was nothing soft...
about PSU’s D that day.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
My first reaction: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Just gotta’ look at the bright side of things though,
1- A time slot to ourselves. Our game will start an hour earlier than any other bowl
2- The Cotton Bowl. Historic, and if we white out the cotton bowl…
3- It’s vs Houston. That’s a better match up than Ohio State and Northwestern got
4- It’s still a January first bowl
5- This should be the most energized team we’ve watched.
6- Extra practices
7- If we come out and play hard, really hard, we can set the tone for next year.
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 8:44 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
White out the Cotton Bowl
This +1.
"I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
-Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim Matheson), Animal House, Universal Pictures (1978).
by PSUPhD90 on Dec 4, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Chicken shit corporate assholes
I will never go to Meinke, will not buy a toyota, or anything else. It isn’t fair to the kids on the team to treat them like criminals.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 4, 2011 8:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions 6 recs
Well look on the bright side
You can start buying all your second-hand tickets from TickeyCity!
by cjapsu on Dec 4, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I came to say one word, and since it's consistent w/your post....
Twats.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Dec 4, 2011 9:51 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah.
We need someone (I don’t have time due to work, or I would) to compile a list of the douche companies that backed out on us. I need a “don’t purchase these assholes’ products ever again” list.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Dec 4, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I can't wait to hear Mark May's trenchant commentary on this situation.
Regarding on-the-field stuff, though, I can see Bradley putting together a solid defensive gameplan for this, though. Plus the Houston defense is ratballs.
Silas Redd vs this defense?
I like it
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Healthy Silas could run for 500 on this defense
I am not exaggerating
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Could? I'll go will.
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
If Matt McGloin throws the ball more than 10-15 times
So help me God…
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
Actually, 10 max.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
This is the kind of team McGloin will shred.
Seriously, look at these clowns on defense. UTEP, Marshall, and UCLA went for 500+ yards on them.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 4, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
UCLA went for 500 yards on Houston?
/flamingbus.jpg
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 5, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
You're right
This Houston team’s passing D ~= to Indiana’s last year, and McGloin looked like the product of a genetic experiment with Unitas, Pro Brady, and Montana against them.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Never mind the black shoes...
…we’re the guys in black hats now. Get used to it. But you don’t have to like it.
"I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
-Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim Matheson), Animal House, Universal Pictures (1978).
Can we pull a "Miami" and come off the plane in orange prison uniforms?
Pretty please.
by kijana's acl on Dec 5, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
A Good Opponent
But other than that-Nothing. Dallas in January is sunny and in the 40’s-if the weather is good. Bad weather-Janaury 1, 1979. After the end ot the Sugar Bowl I saw the end of ND’s comeback against Houston in an ice storm. Not that I am going (wife’s schedule doesn’t permit a bowl game whens he has to work the next day.).
"Let the chips fall where they may."
No crying in our beer
just sack up and show ‘em some Big 10 football. Hope the kids can have a nice trip out of it and not get down on the situation. Let’s set the tone.
by cs93 on Dec 4, 2011 8:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Man...
we should be playing Oklahoma. Let that sink in.
by jdj5045 on Dec 4, 2011 8:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
For real. How fun would that be?
I hope our guys are sufficiently motivated by the time they get to Dallas. I’m sure they’re pissed now, but this is a team they could destroy if they show up in the proper frame of mind.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 4, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
I want them pissed for this game personally
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
"right frame of mind"
I’m not convinced they will have that due to being disrespected and potentially having a lame duck coaching staff.
Are you talking about PSU or Houston?
Because I think the same applies to both squads…
you know, I didn't think about Houston potentially losing their coach
But I doubt the players will feel disrespected by bowls, since they didn’t win their conference and weren’t snubbed by anybody. This could result in two very apathetic teams.
UofH might not necessarily feel "disrespected"
But they basically went from the first BCS game in team history to playing in an 11am CST bowl game in Dallas.
I can’t imagine them “getting up” for that game; however, I do know a great deal of UofH alums who are eager to travel and send Keenum off with a ‘W’.
Houston
jNW with more reliable receivers and a much worse defense. This shouldn’t be interesting.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Much more explosive receivers
D’Anton (Unless pre-concussion D’Anton shows up) vs these receivers, specifically Edwards, worries me
Also, the Cover 3. I’d love to see a 4-2-5 look this game with the press. Not a deep zone 4-3
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
Patrick Edwards is a very, very, very good player
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
I think he is a top 15 pick, if not top 8, first WR taken in the draft
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Houston had 3 receivers with more than 70 catches
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
Oklahoma is going to beat the ever loving shit out of Iowa.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Don't underestimate Norm Parker with this much time to prepare
as bad (really, young / injured) as Iowa’s defense has been this year, by the time that game is played, it might be the best defense Oklahoma has faced this year, or at least the best since the Florida State game.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
That's the one that hurts the most though.
The Insight Bowl is essentially the Non-BCS version of the Fiesta Bowl. We’ve been good to those people since they started out 35 years ago, and for them to take a crappy Iowa team instead of giving us a crack at Oklahoma (in a stadium we’ve never lost in) smarts.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Dec 5, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I could see this game score being like the Holiday Bowl vs BYU
That one was 50-39 with opposing QB Ty Detmer throwing for 576 yards in a loss.
Will PJ be eligible?
Not sure he would get any pt anyway, but could be interesting ala D. Clarke coming out party v. A & M.
Paul Jones up the gut from the Pistol
I’d love it
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Dec 4, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
That's...
A good question. I’ll have to look into it.
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
Here's the thing with Paul Jones, and why you shouldn't care.
The staff is almost certainly short timing it. They’re not going to be putting in the extra time to get a guy up to speed and insert new packages for the whole offense when they won’t be around to see the benefit of it in 2012. There’s a somewhat believable chance they still work hard, but it will be under the inevitable reality that there is no tomorrow.
Besides, I’d rather have Dukes running whatever “new” plays they would have designed anyway.
by Kevin Powers on Dec 4, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if that is fair to say
What about this staff has made you think that they would not be putting all of their time into this game? My impression is that if anything, this staff will treat this game as the national championship because of the circumstances and their integrity and dedication to these students. Also, my question did not only involve special packages. Jones has been practicing for two years now, he probably knows the plays already in the book. Whether it be to switch things up (we all love the 2 QB system, how about 3?) or in garbage time.
I love the way Dukes runs too, I just have not seen Jones yet and am curious.
by FB_Dive_or_Bust on Dec 5, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
To put this in perspective:
Pitt plays their bowl game on ESPN. We play ours on ESPNU.
Awesome.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Dec 4, 2011 9:01 PM EST reply actions
They also have to go to Legion Field for the second year in a row
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
That's not appreciably worse than the Cotton Bowl
That place is a relic.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I've never been to the Cotton Bowl,
but have you been to Legion Field lately? Hide yo kids, hide yo wife territory.
Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!
Follow @Paige2PSU
Cotton Bowl has been upgraded recently
and so has parts of Fair Park. I think it’s pretty nice overall.
Have the stands at Legion Field been reinforced to hold more than 100 fans?
by Salt on Dec 4, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
The way the UA BOT pisses on UAB is shameful
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Dec 4, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Huntsville too
I saw a girl crying tonight. When I asked why she said: "Because everybody lost."
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Dec 4, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Have the stands at Legion Field been reinforced to hold more thanup to 100 fans?
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Paige2PSU would likely have details on this...
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 5, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
They can hold all 99 Pitt fans
and still look empty and depressing.
Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!
Follow @Paige2PSU
by Paige2PSU on Dec 5, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
with Pitt playing, do they have to be tested to over a 100?
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Frankly
I’m to the point with ESPN that If this game were on a C Band-only NASA TV feed, I’d be OK with it. Better than that than the Ship of Fools act from the Turdwide Leader.
I dunno; playing in the Cotton Bowl again is kind of a throwback. Can we put numerals on our helmets again?
And We'll still Destroy Pitt's bowl in ratings.
"I’m not a lawyer, but I read a lot of BSD" - psuphysicist
Penn State's bowl games in the Cotton Bowl (stadium),
1947: Penn State 13 SMU 13
1971: Penn State 30 Texas 6
1974: Penn State 41 Baylor 20
Not bad.
by psu2007 on Dec 4, 2011 9:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Penn State has never lost a game in Texas.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Dec 4, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We mess with Texas
and make Texas deal with it
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
by ckmneon on Dec 5, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The MEN on this team deserved better
But sometimes you don’t get what you deserve. That’s life, its the truth, and sometimes it sucks. So you can deal with it in one of 3 ways
1) Feel sorry for yourself
2) Get pissed and scream at the wind
3) Say “Fuck the World” and then go out and prove to the world that no matter what, where, or when, you will never give up and you will always do your best.
One of those options is what a Penn Stater does. You guys know which one. We’re all pissed, so let’s blow off some steam, and then get behind this team 110% and beat the hell out of Keenum and Houston. They deserve absolutely no less.
WE ARE…
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
by Nittany_Ryan on Dec 4, 2011 9:14 PM EST reply actions 12 recs
I stand corrected on my prior post
“young men” not “kids”. Am I really getting that old?
I call them kids too
and I’m only 28. But after everything they’ve been through, their men.
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
Well, this really makes everything better.
Wrongs have been righted by wronging a bunch of kids who did no wrong.
What a great way to teach kids that not giving up and giving in (in other words, doing the right thing) pays off (sorry, I don’t know how to do the sarcasm font)!
And let me get this straight. The Gator Bowl took a team with a non-winning record and a scandal (Ohio State) over another team with a scandal (Penn State) that won 75% of its games, including the one against the team they selected!
Once again for the millionth time I’ll say it….never have I seen a school, team, program, players, kids, coaches, and legend piled upon like this. You’d think the entire school and everyone ever associated with it committed some kind of genocide.
by J Breezy on Dec 4, 2011 9:16 PM EST reply actions 16 recs
Didn't you read?
These are all self-inflicted wounds.
Try being Catholic a few years back
All our clergy were considered “pedophiles.”
Our shallow minded culture eagerly punishes everyone associated with any institution for the sins of one or two or a handful of individuals. It’s SOP.
So what does it make me?
I am a Catholic Penn State fan! I am about as taboo as the Hitler Youth.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
Insert inappropriate joke about the current Pope here
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Ditto
i’m a huge supporter of pedofiles apparently.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the Big Ten...or just lose the sweater vest.
pedophiles, FTW!
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
We are the worst of the worst.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I was and still am Catholic.
I’m a practicing Catholic…go every week, and am very involved/active in my parish. And my parish had one of the first pedophile priests to get busted. It was when I was in college. I knew it early on. I ’ll never forget my neighbor chastising me on our way back to State College when I first told her that I was sure he was queer. I was not surprised one bit when he got busted 4 years later.
Regardless, there is a lot of ignorance on the whole pedophile priest issue. A lot of people need to research it and find out the actual facts and stats on it and NOT AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVE THE MEDIA NARRATIVE/AGENDA on it.
Phuck'em
Let’s go kick Houston’s backside..now it’s personal with ESPN…i am now more aligned with PSU than ever.
by ljdevine on Dec 4, 2011 9:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Houston opens at -3.5
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
you've got to be fucking with me...
vegas must be taking he general “i don’t give a shit”dom of this game into account. We are, talent-wise, even with McGloin at qb, 20 times better than this team.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Probably not unfair. We’ve always had issues with good passers. Our offense ins’t built to keep up, even though they will certainly gain their share of yards. Houston’s QB has millions to earn back after last weekend’s performance. PSU is in a pretty wacky state, generally.
by Kevin Powers on Dec 4, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes their offense is great, however, we are going to kick the ever loving shit out of them.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
by jman07 on Dec 5, 2011 7:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A passer is only "good"
When he has protection.
Penn State’s D-Line will eat him for lunch.
Good.
This team deserved to be punished for abusing those kids.
Wait. What? They didn’t abuse any kids? Huh. How about that.
by Tailgate Shogun on Dec 4, 2011 9:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
But...
ESPN keeps telling me this team is full of bad people who like little boys. You mean that is not the truth? Shocked
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
...
ESPN's Joe Schad reports that every person who has ever been admitted to Penn State
is a terrible, awful person.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 5, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Of course...I have 16 days off from work and this game has to be played on the first day back from vacation...
Looks like I need to extend vacation by a day.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
is this the treatment we should expect from bowl committees to come?
Without JoePa and our recruits / next coach in the wind, should we expect ticketmaster bowls from now on??
The Buffalo Billy Goats .. and the Ice Goats
Give it a year
Once the Insight Bowl reps see how much money the TicketCity Bowl makes they’ll think twice about passing it up next year.
I know a lot of y’all are probably down on the game but I plan on buying more game merchandise than usual just to prove that PSU is still a commodity worth paying attention to. All hail the almighty dollar…
by cjapsu on Dec 4, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Huh?
Not only did it double post but it deleted the entire text of my post…
What I had said was that once the Insight Bowl, etc. officials see the ratings and numbers of their game compared to the PSU game they’ll think twice about passing us up in the future. I for one plan on supporting the shit out of the TicketCity Bowl just to stick it to the other games.
Is that a reference
To the fact that it’s on ESPN or some sort of actual ratings-speak that’s over my head?
ESPNU is only available to about 37 people...
So ratings may be difficult to produce.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Hm. I gotcha
I guess I’m spoiled by my DirecTV. More channels that I can watch…
I thought everyone got ESPNU nowadays.
by cjapsu on Dec 4, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to shamelessly plug for DirecTV
But I will never switch under the current TV market schematics. DirecTV is just better than everything else and I have had Digital Cable, Dish and DirecTV.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I have ESPNU
I would rather have BTN, which I currently do NOT have
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
Wrong attitude
I’m going to Texas. Show these corporate jackholes all the money they missed out on by picking jNW and Iowa.
by kijana's acl on Dec 5, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First game of 2012...
The best way to reverse the negative is to win…just win. Then the narrative becomes…“Team over-coming adversity in the face of the JS scandal…” to “Who would have thought a team burden by controversy could win in such fashion…” to “…the Penn State of old, winning with defense and mistake-free offense, barely looking back at the challenges of 2011.”
America loves a winner and loves a come back story.
"America loves a winner and loves a come back story." I think that's wishful thinking.
If I’ve learned anything from the past month, it’s that America is too stupid to learn anything.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 5, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
^THIS^
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, Tom was on espn (Yeah, I was listening to ESPN. Kinda, I'm really listening to music and turning it up when it's interesting)
Really, not much beyond usual coach speak. He said control the clock, “Anytime you have a chance to play someone ranked higher than you and compete, a lot of guys are excited. Go out and prove what we’re worth”
Side stepped the future coaching. Made a joke, got the ESPN guys to laugh, he’s good with the media. Actually, he’s joking around and doing very well
Said he’s proud of the players.
ESPN-The Enablers
Forget the 409 wins and 2 national championships. Joe Paterno helped mold thousands of young men into productive members of our society.
ESPN is broadcasting the game
They’re not going to taint their own broadcast with their own sensational “journalism”.
by Mr. Rosewater on Dec 4, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not that upset about this.
Yes we could have played Oklahoma but they’re really not that good this year. Should be an interesting game.
Joe Paterno Apologist
I am with you.
Stepping back a bit…
We are playing in January, against a quality opponent that offers us something completely different from what we are used to, raising money for child abuse victims, in a historic venue.
There are many that do not think we should be allowed to play at all. Let TCU get pissed about its bowl situation, and let us go and root for a team that deserves (and needs – Houston is good) our support. Aside from the Big Ten #7 next to its name, and all these games being played on the second, this is a pretty good setup. The bowl you go to does not alter where you stand in the Big Ten standings.
by FB_Dive_or_Bust on Dec 4, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Also I remember
Playing in a bowl game way above our talent for corporate reasons last year, when we should have been in something like the TicketCityBowl. So from a football standpoint, things just got switched around.
by FB_Dive_or_Bust on Dec 4, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
umm...
We were the better team last year, except for McGloin deigned to throw them the ball 100000 times.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Dec 4, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What makes that worse
Is that JoePa will never have the opportunity to beat Urban Meyer now.
McGloin gift-wrapped that game to Florida last year. UGH.
True
Florida also was in a bowl due to monetary factors. The PSU-FL game last year reminds me of the OSU-FL game this year, just they took it even further this year.
by FB_Dive_or_Bust on Dec 4, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn't mean either team that played that day
deserved to be in the bowl they were in.
Fire Dan Snyder
i remember when going to a bowl meant
you had a good year. Now, we have 6-6 osu playing 6-6 Florida? WTF. Too many GD bowl games. I don’t have a problem with them playing the games, but they shouldn’t be allowed to call them “bowl” games. They should refer to them as exhibitions or some shit. They are a joke.
by rodney20 on Dec 4, 2011 10:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Any bowl game besides the BCS National Championship game is meaningless.
Really they’re like the NIT in basketball – they ARE exhibitions. This is part of what ticks me off when the naysayers to a plyaoff say, “But what about all the tradition of the bowls?”. Well, you could still have the other bowls (for the teams that didn’t make the playoffs – just like the NIT is for teams that don’t make the hoops “playoff”) and they’d be no different than they are now!
This also is another flaw in the BCS. Pre-BCS, which was also flawed, at least had some suspense in it. Many times more than one game could be for the national championship depending on how the games went.
Bottom line: BCS and the bowl system both suck. A playoff is needed.
Honestly, the BcS NC game is actually meaningless
You can’t tell me that a team that cannot win its own division in its conference should be in the championship over multiple teams that had to navigate their own conferences and conference championship games. Also, its a rematch of an overtime 9 to fucking 6 game. Woopie fucking doo. I will not watch the championship game this year. LSU beat Alabama and as the season progressed proved to me to be a much better team. Okie St, Wiscy, Oregon all should be in this game over Alabama. This is an ESPN derived fucking SEC suckfest, I will not watch.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
by BMAN13 on Dec 5, 2011 7:23 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Same here
I’m not tuning in. I hope many people don’t and the ratings suck. Of course that is just a pipe dream.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
The ratings may be good in AL and LA
but ther rest of the country? I honestly don’t know.
I mean I don’t give a sh!t about watching it.
I may check the score and highlights now and then,
but sitting straight through it for four hours?
It’s not a must watch.
I couldn't agree more
I was thinking about this after having an argument with two friends. They had the argument that you have to have a college football playoff because none of the other games matter except the national championship. I was arguing for the tradition of bowl games and keeping all the teams/conferences relevant.
By the end of the argument, I actually realized that I don’t care very much about other conferences, even in the BCS NC game. Even when Texas played Bama, I watched but it was really half hearted after McCoy got hurt. I knew Bama would win and I didn’t really care that much in the first place. On the other hand, I watch all the Big Ten teams play each other all year, even when it’s not the best game on. And I watch them play their bowl games. This year is just a more extreme version…I mean, who cares to watch LSU vs Bama again? Even other SEC fans…maybe?
If the team can’t win the division because the team that won is the number 1 team in the country, I give them a pass for that. Your case would be stronger if it was us getting the bid instead of Bama (if we were higher ranked of course).
The first game was a great game, sure there wasn’t a lot of scoring, but it showed how tough those two teams are, the scores were so far out of line of what they both ahd been doing all year. It really was a powerhouse match up. I think Bama could handle any other team in the country, if no one but LSU can beat them, they deserve the second seed. The Championship isn’t about what game people want to see, it’s about affording the two best teams in the country a chance to play for the title. If the two best teams already played each other, oh well. That doesn’t make them any less deserving of their rankings.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I'm sorry man
but that was NOT a great game.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
I thought it was a great game
Not everyone needs to see a maestro performance by an offense to think it was a good game. Sometimes the defenses are allowed to be near perfect too.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Literally, I fell asleep during that game.
Not making that one up. I fell asleep in the 3rd. Bored the shit out of me. I like a good defensive game too, but that game had absolutely no drama…and I missed the only play that pretty much mattered in the entire game (interception by LSU).
If there is nothing else on that night, I may switch channels back and forth, but that is definitely not a game I am looking forward to seeing.
Okla State got screwed.
Yeah they did get screwed when they lost to Iowa State
Too bad they screwed themselves.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
My problem is less that...
Bama is playing in the mNC and more that if Oklahoma St. was called Oklahoma, or Texas, or USC, they’d be playing in the mNC
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
I don't buy that.
LSU lost two times a couple years ago and were still allowed to play in the BCS title game. Apparently, you only screw yourself if you don’t play in the SEC?
Okla State’s body of work is also better than Bama’s this year.
and….LSU beat Bama. LSU beat Oregon. Why is it fair to LSU that they have to beat either of those teams again to prove they are better?
It is a better body of work if you think the Big12 is decent (which it is not)
Outside of a couple of wins in the conference OkState didn’t beat anyone.
Bama traveled to Penn State and won by three scores.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
But Penn State sucks...I mean, they're in the TicketCity bowl
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Dec 5, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
*BOWL*
stupid sarcasm font cutoff thingy
It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.
by Horse N Buggy on Dec 5, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
They beat 5 ranked opponents.
More than anyone else.
5 Big 12 Teams
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
I agree with the defensive argument
But Saban’s decision making was questionable at best. After you miss the first two field goals- PUNT. Don’t bring in a different kicker. Just play field position. I mean hell, Punt on the second missed field goal.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I thought is was a pretty good game too. I just don't think there should be a rematch
Even if there was a playoff, I would be against any wild cards that didn’t win their conference. Bama didn’t win their conference, they should not be national champions. College football calls the entire season a playoff, not this year. There is no way one can judge the conference’s strength. It is unfair and a tad biased to think the team that finished second in the SEC west is better than any other team in the country when its impossible to compare schedules. PSU played Bama better than anyone on their schedule but LSU, does that make PSU a top ten team, I don’t think so. Look at what Wiscy did to the PSU defense that did a decent job of holding Bama in check.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
I disagree about Bama handling anybody else.
On any day I think Wiscy and Okie St can play with anybody. Wiscy’s defense is not as strong as bama but their offense is head and shoulders better with a much better QB. I don’t even know what to say about Ok St. that game against Oklahoma just was not competitive at all. That is a heck of a team that blew one conference game. I honestly think the Big 12 was tougher than the SEC overall this season, especially some of the offenses you had to prepare for.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Well is it possible that Alabama is one heck of team that just blew one conference game?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
sure, but they did it against the other team in the MNC.
i think Alabama is a top 5 team, Why the hell have conference championships, in fact why have a MNC if no one but the SEC is included. prove to me that Okie st wouldn’t blow the doors off of LSU or Alabama. We will never know. My eyeball test makes Okie State more deserving of a match than the rematch of a 9-6 loser. Other teams sure scored more against LSU, bama couldn’t get in the endzone.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
There is no way to tell
But when one of the best, and most dynamic offenses in the country played them they were DESTROYED!
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Oregon
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Oregeon lost to LSU, not Bama and the score was 40-27, 13 points at home for LSU.
Oregon does not deserve a rematch either. I think Ok St’s offense is better than Oregon’s. But that is just me. I also think Wiscy can score on Alabama. Wilson should be in the Heisman talk with his stats.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Also, Oregon's so so defense held LSU to 273 yards
3 bad fumbles and an interception cost Oregon the game. It should have been a much worse score but LSU couldn’t move the ball on ORegon.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
Oregon is good.
But they did put up 30 or so on LSU…wasn’t it 30-ish? Not sayin’ LSU doesn’t have a good defense…just sayin’ they aren’t an impenetrable force.
Also, WVU gave LSU’s defense fits. The score of that game was artificially inflated. That game was very close well into the 4th Qtr. If WVU’s QB doesn’t shit the bed so many times in that game (like he did against most good teams this year), WVU may win that one. WVU’s coach is a Big XII spread offense guy. I like the Okie’s chances.
response / comment to this whole thread
This is why God created sportsbooks
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Look at the history of Oregon when a team of >8 wins has more than one week to prepare for them
They’re 0-5 in such games since 2008; and only 1 of those games (Auburn 2010) was within 8 points.
I’m not saying it’s not a quality win, just that Oregon wreaks of a good-but-gimmicky team and a dominating win over them should be viewed with a large salt grain.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
correction
they did beat a 9-4 Oklahoma State team in the 08 Holiday Bowl.
So they’re 1-5
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
They lose...
when they face teams with very good defensive lines like OSU, Auburn, and LSU. Even Boise dominated them on the line in Boise’s last two wins against them.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I understand what you mean, butttt......
Back in the day, only teams with decent records got to play in a bowl. It was a fun time. I didn’t have to worry about shitty 6-6 teams going head-to-head. Nor did I have to contend with watching N. Illinois under any circumstances. Going to a bowl “meant something”…it didn’t mean you were national champ, but it was certainly a badge of honor to say that you made it to a bowl. Nowadays, who gives a shit if you made a bowl?..everyone does.
The BCS system and the current bowl system where at least 1/2 of all teams play in a bowl is stupid.
I love college football, but I’m not going to kid you, I find it very difficult to watch shitty teams play.
Yeah, you're right.
The really old bowl system…when there were like 10 of them…was pretty good. I liked that teams many times voted on whether or not to go, too. But then they kept adding them and it reached a point a long time ago of being absurd.
So would it be awkward if...
I ate dinner after the bowl game at Outback, prepare my taxes on TaxSlayer.com and paid for it all (including my tickets) with my CapitalOne credit card?
Nah, that's just good hustle
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 4, 2011 11:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
2nd hardest working belt in the NFL
One guess only as to the first.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 5, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Andy Reid
and not because he’s fat, but because he’s into auto-erotic asphyxiation.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Pleasuring himself while choking on a baby back rib?
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 6, 2011 5:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He's gotta do a better job of chewing.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
bye bye ESPN
I can circle the date on the calender when I can cancel my cable. I have really been turned off by ESPN for years, but they way they treated this team this year was unfair. Their hypocricy regarding PSU and Syracuse, combined with their free spending ways($15 billion dollars for, the NFL) continue to push our cable/satellite bills ever higher while our paychecks get tighter and tighter.
In todays information society, I don’t need ESPN, I can go to Yahoo, the Big Ten, and of course, Black Shoe Diaries.
by kingkub on Dec 4, 2011 11:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
do you even get ESPNU?
I don’t, so you may be able to cancel your cable even sooner.
by The JuggerNitt on Dec 4, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
comcast sports package
I added the NHL channel, I think it came with
by kingkub on Dec 5, 2011 12:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
I had to buy the same sports package to get the B1G network.
I wish I could just buy the channels I actually want. ESPN wouldn’t make the cut.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
There is a campaign on Twitter to
#BoycottTheBCS and #DontWatchTheBCS
Use social media to get people to tune out!
Eff all the idiots who passed us by.
Let’s go down there, have fun and show those wankers what Penn State is really about.
Unfortunately, Jan 2 is the day I fly back from visiting the home folks. Flight lands at 11:10 CST. I’ll miss the 1st quarter, most likely. :(
by michellemtsu on Dec 4, 2011 11:22 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
My sister lives in Colleyville,
I’m thinking about it. Got a place to stay, she would probably buy the tickets, wife and I just would have to get there and back, intriguing possibility.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
I almost bought a house in Colleyville...
But we wanted more land. I’m jNW of there. Let me know. Perhaps we can set up tailgating.
NW, Benton area?
Sister has huge house, not a lot of land. Up against a pond/lake. I will let you know if we come down. Sister and her husband are both alums, too. I’ll see if I can talk the wife into spending the airfare.
needs to hurry over to SW airlines and check the deals from Baltimore to Dallas…..
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
For the record
I (and many other Iowa fans) would have loved you guys to go ahead of us.
Chicken shits in PR made this choice, clearly not anyone who thought bringing two apathetic back to Tempe for the second straight year in a row for a lopsided match up was a bad idea, and clearly not the people who noticed that selling out for the Urban Bowl was still just a game between two crappy teams, and clearly nobody who has ever been to Ryan Field or seen a picture of it during a game or has ever considered why NW plays practically its’ entire conference schedule on BTN.
Those people might have pointed out how stupid this was and noted how avoiding some negative publicity wasn’t worth taking a dump on an entire football program and its’ fan base. Instead the PR people were left in charge.
Where was Jim Delaney in all of this? I know he has PR problems of his own to worry about every year around this time but you would think he might have been able to lean on these people a little more. It isn’t exactly like he is the commissioner of the Sun Belt and has to sit back and take what ever falls to him.
This whole thing sucks.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
by KC_HAWKEYE on Dec 4, 2011 11:48 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
Thanks Hawkeye
I wish Iowa the best in their bowl against a good Oklahoma team.
I don’t think Delaney wanted to help out PSU at all after IT happened. I don’t doubt he completely turned his back to PSU and everything this side of Ohio. I am sure he was lobbying for other teams to get to a good bowl, and just said to hell with PSU, perhaps even lobbying to get other teams ahead of PSU this year.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
we're back to being the bitches of the BIG10 again. Neraska only took 1 year to jump over us.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
I thought we would go to Houston
But then I saw they picked A&M and that guaranteed the sell out for them.. NW’s inability to sell tickets just makes more Aggies happy in their mediocrity. Whoop.
Stop this fallacy
Look, I understand why PSU fans are disappointed they got jumped by teams they beat/had better records than. It’s completely unfair to the kids on the team that did nothing wrong, and I have no argument as to why my Northwestern team should go to Houston over PSU. None. Everything that happened on the field this year says PSU deserves a higher bowl than Northwestern. (Unfortunately, much of the decision-making this year in terms of bowl invites in regards to PSU had a lot to do with OFF the field issues — none of which, by the way, are the fault of the hard-working players on that team…)
That being said, do not perpetuate this myth that Northwestern fans can’t sell tickets to bowl games — we’ve sold our full allotment each of the past 3 bowl games (and even further back than that, I think), because we have a national alumni base that is spread out across the country, meaning there’s PLENTY of Northwestern alums/fans in the Texas area ready to cheer on the Wildcats.
(Now, at home? Yes, we have clear problems there. NO ONE is denying that. But we do at least sell out our bowl game allotments….)
Also, to echo posters above — after you go past the BCS Championship/Rose Bowl, all you want in a bowl game is a good destination (arguably Dallas is better than Houston anyways/old Cotton Bowl is a more historic venue than Reliant Stadium) and a good matchup (Houston and Keenum certainly represent that)….both of which PSU have in this game. So go out and beat the crap out of them for us, okay?
by Chadnudj on Dec 5, 2011 8:03 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, Northwestern takes too much shit . . .
This isn’t 1981. I agree that Dallas is a better destination with a historic, yet sadly shunned old stadium — and a stadium which plays a contextual role in the naissance of We Are. Steve Suhey, you got a copy on me, come back? In the end, with the exception of the first few of the second tier games (Capital One, Outback, etc.), these games are functionally equivalent.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Yeah, the travel thing needs to stop
What are jNW’s TV ratings generally like? This arguably means more than travel, and I have no idea
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Not sure generally...
..but their Alamo Bowl loss to Mizzou was one of the best rated bowl games of 2008-2009…..small sample size, I realize.
And they have (generally) played exciting bowl games — Mizzou-Northwestern went to OT, ditto Northwestern-Auburn, and then last year’s TicketCity Bowl against Texas Tech was a scoring fest decided by just a touchdown.
Watching that Auburn game was surreal
one of the strangest games I’ve ever seen
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
I'll be sure to use my Sarcasm Font next time
The dig was more on the Aggies, I mean, they “whoop” in church.
I’m excited about going to the game and I’m glad that the bowl is in Texas (either one is a 3.5 hr drive). Not to mention the opponent is intriguing considering they’re in C-USA.
Perspective
Since when is selling your allotment (usually less than 15,000 tickets) ever a big deal?
Northwestern travels on a similar level and sometimes better than Illinois and Purdue, which is pretty impressive when you consider that it is a small private school.
However, and I assumed it was implied since we are on a PSU site talking about PSU, Northwestern is not even close to Penn State. When you compare the two fan bases it isn’t even close. Also television contracts, when you consider NW tends to spend more time on BTN than any other regular bowl team regardless of how well they are doing, it makes the whole thing even stranger.
I apologize for not being clearer and good luck against the Aggies.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
When you're Pitt it's a HUGE deal.
They literally can’t give them away fast enough to meet their allotment.
Who is this Pitt fan you speak of?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn't this guy was it?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Every time I watch a Pitt game all I see is this
So I just assumed they were the fans too.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
No, definitely not him.
He and his buddies are diehards. They go to games by the tens of thousands.
He lives in an old beat-up house hanging out over Route 28 in Troy Hill.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Oh, totally fair...
…no one is saying Northwestern is on the same level even remotely in fan support as PSU. We’re not.
As for the allotment thing….plenty of teams nationwide failed to sell their allotments last year (including teams in BCS bowls). That Northwestern sold out its allotment is a favorable point, even if it doesn’t have a huge fanbase like some other schools.
And ditto — good luck to PSU against Houston, and (since I think you’re a Hawkeye fan given your name) Iowa against Oklahoma.
And just to be a bit clearer
I was meaning selling out the stadium. Since your game is against aTm the stadium will sell out for sure. Since the school allotment is ~15K/school that still leaves another ~30K tix to sell in Reliant.
The B1G has a lot of intriguing bowl matchups
MSU-UGA, OSU-UF, Illinois-UCLA, Michigan-Va Tech, and Nebraska-Sakerlina are all games where I think the B1G has a significantly better team there, but I could see either team winning by double digits. (3-2 to 5-0)
Iowa-Oklahoma and jNW-TAMU are the same except opposite. Oklahoma has played another team that tied Iowa State then lost in OT; it did not go well for them. Texas A&M has beaten a couple teams better than jNW, but lost to a couple not as good, too. (0-2 to 1-1)
I refuse to analyze Oregon-Wisconsin. It’s a team with a pulse with more than a week to prepare, so you’d think Oregon would lose convincingly. Except that it’s Wisconsin’s coaching staff, the same staff that decided to go spread against TCU and found a way to be down 12 with 4:30 left against Ohio State. Somebody’s going to win and be convinced they were a very good team, but I’m not sure it’s true. (0-1 to 1-0)
Purdue-WMU and PSU-Houston should be easy B1G wins, but I’m not sure they will be. (1-1 to 2-0)
So I’m taking the B1G to go somewhere between 4-6 and 9-1, splitting the difference means 6.5 +/- .5 wins for the B1G. There’s no game like MissSU-Michigan or MSU-Bama from last year that I see and say, “oh that’s unwinnable,” but not too many sure things either.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
South Carolina should beat Nebraska
The Cocks offense is good enough to blow out the ACC champs. They are very similar to PSU except that Conner Shaw will try and beat you with his feet, and does on many occasions.
Their defensive front 4 (or rotation of players) is about as good as any other team in the country. Nebraska barely beat PSU and I think USC is better than PSU this year. Even with Lattimore out for the year.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
David vs. Shaw on the ground will be the matchup to decide the game
I just have much more faith in a 5-3 Big Ten team this year than I do in a 6-2 SEC East team who beat Georgia, Mississippi State, Navy, and Florida by a combined 13 points, not to mention only being up 7 on The Citadel with 5 min left in the 3rd quarter.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
I just don't see it
I watched every USC game this year and every PSU game. What I saw of both leads me to believe USC wins.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Agree to disagree
Nebraska is basically Navy only much better: lots of option; dangerous, but not good, throwing the ball; meh defense. Without Lattimore, USC loses to Navy, and it might not have been all that close.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
They are two radically different option teams
The veer is much harder to defend then the load option that Nebraska runs. But again you said agree to disagree, and I agree.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Veer vs. Load
Stopping the veer definitely puts more pressure on the inside of the defensive line / LBs, but it also frees up the safeties and corners to help more in run defense than Nebraska’s load option does. Either way, the DEs and OLBs are going to have to play assignment football and make 1 on 1 tackles.
With the athletes Navy and Nebraska have, I think they both chose the flavor of option that suits them the best. Navy’s requires a defense to respect more potential ball carriers; Nebraska’s requires a defense to respect more potential receivers and for the DEs and LBs to make faster reads.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Which is why the load is good for USC because the athletes in the middle of the front 7 can now flow to ball instead of staying at home for the fullback
I just see a good defense, with a great defensive line (yes USC has a good defense) against a team that struggles against good defenses. What held PSU back was the lack of anything resembling an offense that day. USC went through a bit of an adjustment period mid-season when they lost Lattimore and Garcia. They have seemed to have gotten out of that period and have did quite well against the ACC Champions in their last game.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I actually agree with this
Nebraska trying to out-athletic USC is a taller order than Navy trying to out-smart / discipline them.
Big picture, I still think Nebraska is a better, more athletic version of Navy and USC is without Lattimore and Nebraska should win, but I don’t disagree that the veer is tougher for USC than the load.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Guess who owns the Car Care Bowl which passed PSU on by?
You guessed it, our friends at the Worldwide Leader
http://www.espnplus.com/football.php
Follow my antics: @DanVecellio
Its the name on the front of the jersey that matters most, not the one on the back. -Joe Paterno
I guess ESPN did not bother to research itself before the selection then
Schlabach had PSU in the Car Care. Not surprising based on current examples of ESPN’s great journalism.
Beat Houston.
by FB_Dive_or_Bust on Dec 5, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Can we have a Site wide moritorium on
Stating where we can go and watch the game for free online. Alot of people, including myself do not have this channel, and I don’t doubt there are those who know how to find it online for free, streaming, I know of one that might work. And I am sure there are alot of people who do not want to pay any money to ESPN to watch this game.
Oh Mods…can you over look this once for this game?
Pretty Please, with puppies and cherries on top of a PSU creamery sundae?
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
We need to make sure the mods don’t get in trouble. It’s not a BSD policy it’s SbN
This is what email and Twitter are for
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
Well, we can do it in a sly manner
Like, “NO ONE go to this site to watch the game streaming live for free. It is worthless”
I am down with that.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
Follow @jaychristensen
That might help.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
A Husker chiming in from Germany
Good luck, Penn State, on January 2nd!
You definitely got screwed over on this one, and the B1G & Delaney should have done more to prevent this kind of crap!
Nevertheless, it is what it is, so go down there to Tex-ASS and kick Houston’s ASS!
And we’ll be looking forward to seeing you at Memorial Stadium on November 10th next year!
by MSS1960 on Dec 5, 2011 4:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
In think Delaney ordered the refs
to throw the a flag on any PSU big play, so they came up with a chop block.
Then he said to them, flag the unsportsmanlike for McGloin spiking the ball.
“Whatever you do, do not allow Penn State get to Indy.”
Same attitude as the bowl committees.
It just blows my mind that these wonderful scrupulous bowl people who hold meetings in strip clubs and look at graft as a way of life are too moral to take a PSU football team that has done nothing wrong.
This would be such a much better world if people just did the right thing instead of worrying about what others perceive is the right thing. I do think its funny that in all of their attempt at continuing to pile on PSU that one of the best non BCS matchups is set for the Ticket City Bowl.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
by BMAN13 on Dec 5, 2011 7:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's the fact that those people don't want the increased media scrutiny.
Pure and simple. They’re afraid of what reporters following PSU will dig up about them.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
Meh...
I had not interest in seeing PSU play Texas A&M yet again in a bowl game or Florida for the 2nd straight year. Oklahoma would’ve been nice, but it’s no big deal really. As I don’t travel to PSU games, the location is really not relevant. This will be like playing a better version of jNW. Also, this will probably be the highest rated program on ESPNU in 2012. That is why PSU is there.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
I'm okay with this game.
Yes, it pisses me off that the team was passed over by other bowls. But this is an interesting game that I’m looking forward to watching. To hell with the rest of ‘em. Let’s raise millions for Thon and let’s kick ass in the bowl game. THAT is the real Penn State.
by CvilleLion on Dec 5, 2011 8:24 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for shared feeling
I think this is a chance for PSU to show they are a solid team, and to show the country that we get behind our boys.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
Is there any way
that Devon Still and Gerald Hodges aren’t licking their lips waiting to wreak havoc on that Houston offense?
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
Too much negativity here.
This isn’t a bad deal. Sure, we got passed over by 3 bowls that we rightfully belonged in given our performance on the field. BUT…the opponent is interesting, and we’re in one of only 9 bowls where both teams are in the BCS Top 25 by my count. We haven’t beaten a ranked team all year, so this seems like a chance to do something we haven’t done yet. Let’s beat Houston and stop ranting about ESPN, who had nothing to do with where we are playing. It’s just not healthy, and not a good reflection of who “We Are”.
Remember, if we had beaten Nebraska, we’d have had a shot at the Rose Bowl. So you can’t say we didn’t have our chance to get to a “good bowl” on our own merits. We just didn’t get it done on the field.
by mfounds67 on Dec 5, 2011 8:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's impossible, it's ESPN's fault we lost to Nebraska.
In fact, I’m pretty sure Mark May was remotely tripping our defenders with sprinkler heads, just like the Buffalo Wild Wings commercial.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mark May is a prick!
Don’t associate him in anyway with Nebraska! :)
by MSS1960 on Dec 5, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who ever said that?
I do blame EsPN for sensationalizing the Sandusky story to the point where the BOT and the B1G were panicking and doing irrational things, and it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that somehow, someway, that was on the minds of the officials in the Nebraska game (how many PI / holding penalties went uncalled?), but I haven’t seen anyone say anything of the sort.
Fera missed a tough, but makable FG and didn’t have a good day in general and Maher had a flawless day. If Fera plays like he did against OSU and Maher like he did against Michigan, yeah, PSU probably wins, and ESPN had nothing to do with that.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
by ckmneon on Dec 5, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
HERE COMES THE SELF-TROLL...ER...POLICING
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 5, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Moderator troll is moderator trolling
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
by jman07 on Dec 5, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Oh, it's not trolling.
Sarcastic, sure. But the OMG ESPN argument ends for me once we get past the argument of “the players deserve better than this”. Penn State, institutionally, is responsible for what happened to Penn State. They let a molester run free. They covered up his misdeeds. They didn’t go to the police when they should have. They totally botched the response to the allegations despite having months to prepare for it. They botched the dismissal of Paterno (and Paterno botched it too, by unilaterally declaring that he was going to stay on for the remainder of the season without PSU’s consent).
ESPN, or any other media outlet didn’t cause any of that. And look, I hate ESPN and the influence they have over sports — most especially college football. The way they’re able to dictate how the sport is conducted is reprehensible. But they didn’t get Joe Paterno fired. The Board of Trustees got Joe Paterno fired. Jerry Sandusky got Joe Paterno fired. Joe Paterno got Joe Paterno fired. Stuart Scott did not get Joe Paterno fired.
Blaming the media for our problems is such a childish move. Don’t want your innocent football team dragged down by a child molestation scandal? Don’t have a child molestation scandal housed by the football program.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry, should have used the sarcasm font
I get the disgust at the way this whole situation has evolved but I agree that bitching about ESPN isn’t going to do anything other than make us look petty.
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
Chris,
I appreciate your opinions and can respect them as a mature, hard line stance on the issues. But in my opinion your take on this is full of rank-speculation about the situation and is an over simplification of a complex set of issues.
I like to think that there is a chance that all of what we know at the moment is false, or skewed to suit a particular narrative that is essential to the prosecution’s case. However, that narrative in the form of a 23 page Grand Jury indictment created a state of excitement in the nation as a whole. So when the national media started it’s unfounded calls of shame on the football program they essentially “yelled fire in a crowded theater”. So yes I feel a bit of blame should rest upon their shoulders.
Plus do you know for a fact that the football program (remember that includes players, secretaries, staffers, coaches, et al.) knowingly harbored someone who was raping children. If you do know this then there are some folks in the DA’s office in Centre County who would like to speak to you.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I didn't say that players, secretaries, staffers, and coaches all knew.
I think it’s pretty clear that something of a predatory sexual nature was going on at the PSU football facilities between Sandusky and children, and the people in charge of the football program (Spanier, Curley, Paterno) were notified. Can we at least agree on that, at a bare minimum?
That doesn’t necessarily mean that Kermit Buggs or Nate Stupar or the woman who answers the telephone at the Nittany Lion Club specifically knew what was going on. But there was a rather clear pattern of child abuse occurring within the football program, and Penn State, institutionally, did not do enough to prevent or correct that.
This isn’t about specifically blaming Joe Paterno or Tim Curley or anyone else. This was botched by the organization as a whole, and I think it’s extremely misguided for people to take that rather obvious fact and spin it into “the media totally screwed Penn State”. That’s the worst kind of passing the buck, in my opinion. It’s unfortunate that the current football players are caught up in this, just as it’s unfortunate that current students, alumni, faculty, and local residents are caught up in it. We share in the glory, we share in this.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I completely agree with you about ESPN
Not one single person on here had a problem with ESPN when they had the “Different Makers” special this summer with Paterno and Krzyzewski this summer. Perhaps because they were hearing positive things about Penn State and Joe Paterno instead of negative things. ESPN has consistently praised Paterno throughout the years, I don’t feel that had any vendetta against him at all. They would have not had any story to cover at Penn State if it wasn’t for all the individuals who dropped the ball. It is not ESPN’s fault. I think they often have too much of an influence on sports and often seems to me like tabloid journalism, but I don’t think they are the reason PSU is playing in Houston.
That being said, i think it is a good matchup. I think PSU has shown a lot this year, but I think I would rather see a team in a comparable matchup as opposed to a bigger name that may give us trouble. PSU’s best win this year (in my opinion) is on the road at at 6-6 OSU team, so let’s be honest that it’s been a nice season, but we are nowhere near the level of teams like MSU or Wisconsin.
by mundyscorner99 on Dec 5, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Seriously. I didn't even consider the Difference Makers thing.
Which was essentially an hour-long fluffing of Paterno.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Where does one sign up for hour long fluffing?
Although I’d prob only need about 8 mins
May no act.................
by SweepTheLeg on Dec 5, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think it’s pretty clear that something of a predatory sexual nature was going on at the PSU football facilities between Sandusky and children, and the people in charge of the football program (Spanier, Curley, Paterno) were notified. Can we at least agree on that, at a bare minimum?
I would have thought so, but, no, we can’t agree on that at a bare minimum, apparently. Have you been in the other threads?
by M1EK on Dec 5, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Do you try to pick fights everywhere?
I, for one, plan to continue my life long contempt for the powers that be and I fully expect to be disappointed with whatever choice is made. ~PSUgirl
by jman07 on Dec 5, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it’s pretty clear that something of a predatory sexual nature was going on at the PSU football facilities between Sandusky and children, and the people in charge of the football program (Spanier, Curley, Paterno) were notified. Can we at least agree on that, at a bare minimum?
That is why you say the Administration, NOT the Program. There is a discernible difference. When you say Program you infer, whether intentional or not the entire organization. Which we have agreed was not 99% of the Program.
Also as I said before the media is not innocent in this debacle. They created an atmosphere or moral indignation that was rushed, and uncalled for, especially in light of later shortcomings by some of the leaders in the field.
As for passing the buck. I am not passing the buck, Sandusky will get his day in court. As will Curley and Schulz. Unfortunately I don’t think Coach Paterno will be given due process, which is a shame when you consider he didn’t violate any laws. But when this whole debacle finally plays out hopefully we know how much our leaders did and did not do, and can make a judgment based upon the complete picture rather than standing on our bully pulpits telling others they are passing the buck and crazy.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
These acts were alleged to be happening by a current/former football coach in the Lasch building. It's a football problem.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also at his home and at various highschools around centre county
I’d say its more than just a football problem
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
I think thats the part of this that really bugs me
Especially where it concerns the media coverage of this. It wasn’t just a football problem. But the commentary was painted in such a way that Joe Paterno shouldered 95% of the public scrutinty.
Because of that important focus was lost. Instead of trying to examine how Sandusky hid in plainsight for so long, and how others could be doing it as well, we were reading about Joe Paternos minimally understood role in this (8 lines in a GJ report). Instead of having discussion about how to spot a sexual predator and ultimately help kids, we (and I’m as guilty in this as everyone else) beat to death all of the possible hypotheticals surrounding a few facts and a lot of conjecture.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And for that
I blame ESPN and the media in general. They had the opportunity to shape the discussion. They chose ratings instead.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
But you're looking to ESPN to responsibly shape a discussion about child abuse. There's the mistake.
This was a tabloidish story from the start. Salacious charges, institutional cover-up, legendary characters. It was never going to be an NBC “The More You Know” segment, no matter who was reporting it.
Again, and I’m not attacking you specifically here, don’t like your football program and university embroiled in scandal? Don’t do dumb, scandalous stuff.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If ESPN wants to report on real news,
they should expect to be held to the standards of real journalists.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
That's assuming a lot about ESPN's motives and what "real journalists" do.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Real Journalists:
See Ganim, Sara.
(of course, Ms. Ganim did say a couple of things in her interview on PBS News Hour that weren’t exactly factual, but her published reporting has been good)
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
"Ms. Ganim did say a couple of things in her interview on PBS News Hour that weren’t exactly factual"
Go on…
Run.
Host: "Did Coach Paterno ever follow up?"
Sara Ganim: “He did not.”
Not ‘I don’t know…‘; not ’the presentment doesn’t make that clear…‘; but a firm “he did not”. There was at least one other that I can’t recall off the top of my head.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec11/pennstate_11-07.html
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
then they need to hire real journalist
#firecraigjames #makemarkmaygoaway
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
I don't think its a mistake
I’m expecting ESPN and national media outlets to responsibly report a story. They didn’t.
Whether they wanted to use their platform for good and shape a discussion about child abuse is secondary. First and foremost, I expect responsible journalism. Save a handful of individual reporters, this story was driven by a blood in the water feeding frenzy. That isn’t news. Thats Salem witch trials type stuff.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody really helped themselves from the moment this broke.
Spanier issued that moronic statement of unconditional support. Curley and Schultz basically went underground. Paterno said that “maybe he should done more” said we should pray “for the victims or whatever they’re calling them”, and let his son captain the PR Titanic until some experienced people stepped in.
It’s like everyone was trying out DERP each other. And they all succeeded.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I've heard the 'whatever they're calling them' clip a couple of times...
As best as I can make it out, what Paterno says is “how ever you want to say it” – that to me is a person trying to collect his thoughts in the middle of a group of kids, and he’s not quite sure that the mantra of ‘pray for the victims’ doesn’t just sound trite.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
I'm just saying that it didn't help very much.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
...and I'm saying that it doesn't help very much to repeat the mis-quote,
especially in the least-sensitive way possible.
Hell, even if he did say ‘or whatever they want to be called’, it’s still more than Spanier ever said in support of Sandusky’s victims.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 5, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was referring to the fact,
that most people said alleged victims. He actually just said victims.
Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!
Follow @Paige2PSU
by Paige2PSU on Dec 5, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Whatever they're calling them"
“the whole bit”
Joe being Joe
Good or bad.
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
I agree with you
I take a litte point of conention with Joe’s statement. I feel like he was showing genuine remorse, no matter what his role actually was. Thats extremely important and deserves some praise.
The rest of the PR shitstorm was the worst kind of train wreck. At least Syracuse learned from our handling of our own situation. That said, it still doesn’t excuse the media from acting irresponsibly. Every laughably terrible statement (starting with Spanier’s unconditional support of Curley and Shultz) didn’t have to be acted on. Members of the media could have taken an active stance in reporting the entire story (you know, do their jobs). They could have used the unfortunate incidents to change the misconceptions of who pedophiles are. They could have done so much more to save future kids from this same behavior.
They didn’t. They failed. They may have (most likely) done more harm than good. ESPN could have acted responsibly and reported appropriately. They didn’t and for that they deserve to be villified.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't trust the media in general and don't put much stock in sports media like ESPN
Honestly, I think about 70% of what is on all news stations is accurate, the rest is motivated by personal view on a stance.
Did ESPN and NY Times perform 100% honest/accurate reporting? No
Did they have an ulterior motive? Maybe
Is it their fault the national media descended on State College? No.
There is plenty of blame to go around, that includes PSU admin, Paterno, Sandusky, and the media
IMO…can’t just blame the media and give other a pass…if you don’t like ESPN, discontinue your subscription.
May no act.................
I'm not simply blaming the media
and giving the other a pass. This discussion is about the media. I’ve got some strong opinions on the Board of Trustees as well, but this discussion isn’t about that.
I think you’re being generous with that 70% figure. I trust less than half of what they report on.
And personally, I feel as though the national media should have descended on State College. I think they should still be there, responsibly reporting and gathering facts.
Also, I’ve been off of ESPN for years, save live sporting events. Their brand of sports news is entertainment, and pretty shitty entertainment at that. Chris Berman, Stuart Scott, and their ilk rub me the wrong way. Also, their ‘experts’ are a bunch of mindless idiots spouting the company line (mostly this is in regards to college football). No one there bothers to think critically about anything, it seems.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to remember the general state of auto industry coverage.
I work for a Tier 1 supplier, so I have a considerably higher-than-average knowledge of the goings-on in the automotive industry. I’m consistently stupefied by the lack of fundamental understanding displayed by reporters when I listen to any kind of MSM coverage of the business. After about two days of hearing half-truths, conjecture, and outright falsehoods presented as fact during the Toyota sudden unintended acceleration fiasco, I realized it was better for my own health if I just turned off the news. …very similar to the coverage of Penn State in the last month.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
This is where we fundamentally disagree.
I don’t think this is the time or place to lay out every argument, so I’ll just say that I have a very big problem with calling systemic institutional shortcomings ‘a football problem’.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 5, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...and when I say 'institutional', I mean all the way up through state government.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
You're right.
I wrote that incorrectly. Like I said in the earlier comment, it’s an institutional problem that was (mostly) housed within the football program. The point of this all being that the football program is naturally dragged down by a scandal that predominantly happened (a) in football facilities (b) at football-related functions © by a football coach, former and/or current, and (d) with some level of knowledge by the people who run and/or oversee the football program.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
None of these things are ESPN's fault or problem.
That was the point of this whole sub-thread, after all.
by Chris Grovich on Dec 5, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
^ what psuphysicist said up above.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
Seems to me...
it was a Centre County problem. Too many people weren’t skeptical enough, were too trusting, and gave too many benefits of the doubt. Whole lot of balls dropped in this one.
That is a separate issue on how the issue(s) were covered by the media. The coverage, while deserved, was not journalism’s finest hour.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is an over-simplified version of my 'institutional shortcomings'...
but I take it all the way up to Harrisburg for putting University procedures in place that would allow for the lack of oversight that was demonstrated.
…and as much as I disagree with M1EK, I do agree with his point that Schultz was in a position to quash an investigation by uniformed police before it even got started. I just blame the people who put that system in place for what happened when it failed.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
It's not that simple
There were many times when somebody could have done something they most apparently did not do that could have stopped this a long time ago.
The system could have been better. Fine, but no system works perfectly, and systems tend to protect institutions (it’s very hard to design a system that will NOT degrade into covering the institution).
Schultz could have done what he apparently did not do. Curley could have made sure he did it. Paterno could have followed up or used his incredible amount of accumulated goodwill to go outside the institution.
Those who blame ESPN are being very foolish. ESPN is a messenger. The message here was awful. That is not their fault. ESPN didn’t molest anybody and, at least in our case, didn’t hold back any information about somebody being molested. Threatening to boycott ESPN and complaining about their bias looks even worse now than when Ohio State fans did the same thing during Tatgate.
I should say
this is a situation, therefore, in which many people didn’t do the right thing – and no system always works perfectly if everybody just does what they are supposed to do according to the rules in that system.
You're right - it's not that simple.
At the end of the day, though, the people who did what they were supposed to do are the ones who took the most heat from ESPN (and other media outlets), and that’s why I have a problem with the reporting.
I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug
by leeharvey418 on Dec 5, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would..
agree with that statement.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Done to death
Sandusky – no controversy.
Schultz and Curley? Indicted. Two unknowns who are going through the legal system where the truth will, likely, eventually out.
Paterno is the biggest story because he’s the most controversial part of this – because it’s not crystal clear to most people what his obligations were (both legal and ethical) and what he did, and whether what he did lived up to his public image. And those saying “wait for the facts” are ignoring that we might never know more than we know now in any more reliable form (in fact, I think that the most likely outcome).
That is why most of the reporting focused on Paterno. And that is not in and of itself wrong.
True
That is why most of the reporting focused on Paterno. And that is not in and of itself wrong.
But the problem is that the reporting wasn’t even factual a large majority of the time. Mostly, it was op-ed passed as fact. With such a controversial and talked about topic the media has a responsibility to present unbiased fact. Of course, they never do, but thats the state of front page journalism in America today.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I do disagree with this (although only partly)
Paterno is the biggest story because he’s the most controversial part of this
Paterno was also the biggest name in the story. Had this been a second or third tier coach that wasn’t a household name the focus wouldn’t have been as intense.
Actually, if it was a no-name coach I think we would have seen a lot more reporting on the Second Mile. That, to me, is the most intriguing/scandalous story.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
I know better than to reply...but
First off M1EK, I admire your zeal. In the face of great adversity here in the comments section, you’ve persevered, and I commend you for that. It’s not easy to espouse an opinion in the minority, regardless of context.
Second, you might be right. There is a very real possibility that none of these cases ever sees the inside of a court room, aside from preliminaries and disposition of any plea bargains. There is also the possibility that even if all 3 cases are adjudicated, they may be tried so far into the future that JoePa never testifies in open court before passing on (I hope and pray he does not, but we all have to go some day)
My biggest problem with all of the rush to judgement is just that. It’s a rush to judgement that serves no ones best interest. Not the victims, not the public trust, not the BoT, not the faculty, staff, alumni, coaches, student-athletes and least of all justice.
I’d much rather let a hundred guilty men walk free on a technicality than punish one innocent man because I was in too much of a hurry to put things in the past (Which is exactly what all the ‘start the healing’ bs is aimed at doing. The real healing will begin for the victims when JS is dead or in jail.) Yes these are terrible times for the football program and the university writ large. That doesn’t mean we should abandon our principles to accommodate a mob that doesn’t care what happens to PSU. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that’s even more reason to stand our ground and do what’s best for all concerned.
Having said the above, I’ll add now that I don’t think in any case, Joe being the coach for any games the rest of the season would ever have been workable. It would have been nice to allow him that last little piece of dignity, but it never would have worked. That doesn’t mean anyone has to like it. And perhaps that’s why so many commenters have argued so vehemently against you…?
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
by nylyst on Dec 5, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Totally agree nylyst
I have had multiple heated disagreement with M1ek over the years but I do respect his opinion.
Reminds me of Ron Paul, everyone thinks he is batsh*t crazy but many of his points turn out to be true :)
May no act.................
Thanks
First, thanks.
Second, remember that a job is not a right. So getting fired based on hearsay or less is not the same thing as the “ten guilty men go free” argument.
Third, I think we did know enough that he had to go. As do many others. Many have given up on this argument because it relies on the subjective assessment of various scenarios, any of which are possibly true (but themselves require certain assumptions as prerequisites). I myself, as do many people I respect, found the prerequisite assumptions required to support Joe’s continued employment very unlikely.
No, you don’t have to like it. But I never asked anybody to like it. And I myself called for something that would have preserved Joe’s dignity – his immediate resignation (his own decision) with an apology to all.
That’s not what he did – he instead tried to bluff the BOT, and they called his bluff, as they had to do.
And here's why I shouldn't have replied
Never said or implied a job is a right. It’s worth mentioning in the discussion though that there exists a possibility that Joe could sue for wrongful termination. I don’t know near enough about contract/employment law to even speculate, and I’m sure like most employment contracts there’s a blanket morality clause that would render any attempt to contest his firing null. And bottom line, I don’t think there’s any chance, given his nature to this point, that he would sue the university.
I even said in my original reply that there was no workable scenario where he coached another game this season. I also recall discussing with my brother the Friday when this all first started to come out that as much as I don’t want it to be true, he won’t coach another game.
That doesn’t make it right. And although we are referring here strictly to the court of public opinion, I would argue that the “ten guilty men go free” argument is very germane to the discussion. At this point in time, the only person we know tried at least at some level (and there may be a lot more we don’t know yet) to handle this situation properly (relative term here, as at the time, Joe may have been of the impression that this was the best way to handle it. In hindsight, is he regretful he didn’t take McQueary to the cops? Most assuredly yes, as it was the only logical conclusion based on his public statement, but both he and the public have a lot more information now than what was available in 2002) is the only one that was forced out. Even Spanier was allowed to make his exit on his own terms. As the head of the institution, he is more culpable under PA law than Joe or McQueary, as he’s a mandatory reporter.
On your last point, I’ll agree, he should never have said a peep regarding the BoT, he was already tempting fate by speaking publicly after the university tried to muzzle him.
As for the rest, we’ll just have to agree to disagree…for now. It’s my sincerest hope that Joe get’s to testify, we find out he DID do more, including following up and either being stymied or flat out lied to. I’ll happily provide the crow for you and all the media and make sure it’s icy cold.
And one last thing (I’ve been considering writing a fanpost on this topic, but it delves into the political area too much to really consider): If Joe’s only failing is one of morality, what do we have laws for? In my book, laws are exactly that: codification of morals of the society over which the laws are used to govern. Yes, they change with time and changes in the culture, but generally speaking, if something is against the law, at some point the majority of the society governed by that law thought the action that was made illegal by said law as immoral. (And yes, you could have a whole career in something like this, many nuances and grey areas, and sometimes even unpopular laws, prohibition for example, get passed. Someone had to think that drinking was immoral though for that to even be considered worthy of being codified into law)
If that’s the case, how can someone who did the minimum required by law (and again we don’t know that’s ALL he did) have failed his moral obligation?
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
by nylyst on Dec 5, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
morality vs. laws etc.
laws are the minimum we require everybody to do, or, and this is important, they go to jail. I expected more from Paterno than the bare minimum. As should you and should all of us.
We took pride in Paterno doing more than the bare (legal) minimum when it came to the student part in student-athlete, didn’t we?
As for the ten guilty men argument, again, this is not relevant to the court of public opinion or to employment. If somebody’s company thinks it likely they drove drunk and hurt somebody and the publicity would embarass them, they do not, in fact, need to (nor should they) wait for a conviction to consider firing that employee. Heck, people have been fired for blog posts.
People who think Paterno can sue for wrongful termination must be living in Europe or misunderstanding how the “wrongful” part is so severely limited here as to be irrelevant in this particular case.
I agree...sorta
I do expect Joe to do more than the minimum. Part of why he’s been so important to so many people is because not only did he always do more than the minimum expected, but he taught others to believe in and do the same.
It’s exactly those types of high ideals that was the foundation for the Grand Experiment. The problem is, in our rush to judgement, we’re not even concerned with whether or not he did do more. This is exactly what makes it so hard for his supporters to believe that he may not have done more. Sixty plus years of being the example ought to buy you more than “So long and thanks for all the fish!”
As for the wrongful termination, I never he said he had standing to sue, and all but admitted that even if he did have standing, his employment contract, like almost everyone I’ve ever signed (and I’m not a public facing employee of such a large institution) likely has a blanket morality clause that would render that standing moot.
Also, your parenthetical ‘legal’ isn’t necessary. Joe didn’t care if it was legal, moral or otherwise, the minimum was never enough. And I don’t believe we have near enough information either way to say he didn’t do more than the bare minimum.
As for laws being the minimum we require people to do, or not do, to prevent being jailed, that’s hogwash. If it were true, we wouldn’t need things like good samaritan laws to protect those folks that go above and beyond what most people would do to protect them from prosecution/litigation for helping people (e.g. the classic case where someone performs CPR, resuscitates someone and then is sued by that someone for breaking ribs or other injuries)
And finally, to the “ten guilty men argument”. You keep saying it’s not relevant, but have yet to provide anything resembling evidence to support that it’s not relevant. Yes, the idea itself is rooted in the legal doctrine of most modern democracies, but that doesn’t limit it’s usefulness outside the legal sphere. Plenty of cogent arguments can be lifted wholesale from their original context and applied to a context for which it wasn’t intended. That act alone doesn’t render it invalid. If you have a valid criticism of using this argument in the context under which this whole fiasco has occurred, please, let me know.
To me, a big part of growing up “The Penn State Way” was being able to recognize when you’re wrong and learning from it, not just discarding your views/information and forgetting about it.
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
by nylyst on Dec 5, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The ten guilty men argument
applies because people run the risk of being deprived of their Constitutional rights.
Nobody has a right to any particular job. That’s the most clear, obvious, difference. To say nothing of the fact that even civil litigation (still a much higher standard than employment) just requires the preponderance of evidence standard.
Wait, what?
Paterno is the biggest story because … it’s not crystal clear to most people what his obligations were
I thought that everybody (well everyone except those noisy few who disagreed with you on this site) understood that Paterno did nothing. Aren’t those the facts as you have created them?
I kindly disagree with your statement
ESPN, or any other media outlet didn’t cause any of that
Were they the sole cause? No. But were they part of it? Absolutely. The “institutional” responsibility you heap on Penn State flows both ways. ESPN (and others) chose to report what they reported in the manner and time they did. Had they not done so, would things have unfolded as they did? Absolutely not. So there’s plenty of “responsibility” to go around here. And I would be willing to bet that there are plenty of people at ESPN and other news outlets who would gladly take credit for that which you so completely absolve them.
*
by Smee on Dec 5, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This reminds me of all the complaining we did last year
When Penn State jumped ahead of Illinois and Iowa (both of whom embarrassed Penn State) in the bowl pecking order. Oh wait….no one here gave a shit about what was “fair” to the Hawkeye and Illini players because Penn State was better for business? Huh.
Well, then it’s probably because Penn State lost out on a bunch of better matchups this year. /looks at bowl schedule and assumes no one is actually thinking PSU deserves to jump Nebraska and Michigan St. So these are the alternatives: 1) a rematch against Florida. 2) The 3rd bowl in 12 years against Texas A&M, a 6-6 team that just fired its coach. 3) Oklahoma, who looks exactly like Houston, in a game that will end at 1:30am Eastern time (this is the only one I can even fathom someone preferring).
So really, I don’t understand all the bitching and moaning. People are just trying to find insults everywhere.
by Big Beefer on Dec 5, 2011 9:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Illinois and Iowa finished with better B1G records than PSU last year
oh wait, no they didn’t. But PSU does have 2+ more B1G wins AND won the head-to-head against OSU, jNW, and Iowa.
And as far as jumping MSU or Nebraska? Why not? Yes, PSU lost to Nebraska, but 1) finished with a better B1G record, 2) Nebraska lost to jNW and was down 20 midway through the 3rd quarter to Ohio State, both at home, and 3) Was a missed FG away from being tied with Nebraska.
As for Michigan State, I will say that PSU hasn’t lost to a team as meh as Notre Dame and only finished 1/2 game behind them in B1G record overall, but I still think they deserved to be chosen ahead of PSU.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
by ckmneon on Dec 5, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the press comments leading up to this are what pisses people off
For weeks there have been comments about PSU getting passed over by members of the Bowl Committees. Most of us can accept getting passed because tOSU travels better, or Iowa vs South Carolina is a better match up for TV ratings. But neither of those statements are the truth. We got jumped because the climate in this country right now is one where PSU and anything to do with it is perceived as toxic, evil, and on par with war-crimes. Forget that one of the largest alumni groups in the world is rallying against child molestation, or that our players were in little league when the alleged molestation occurred. The nation needs to blame someone to make them all feel better about how sorry our current state of affairs is, and Penn State makes a convenient distraction.
That is what pisses us off.
Your comparison to last year is apples to watermelons.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
And we will in the future
We can still be upset at it now. But the only way that I will truly be upset is if in all of this, we don’t travel to the game. There is nothing I’d like to see more than the bowls that past on us eating some crow as TicketCity rakes in the ratings and PSU dollars and the bowls that past us do worse. If that doesn’t happen, then the bowl committees will assume that they made the right decision, making it possible that this happens in the future.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Insulting for the players, but enjoyable for us fans once you swallow your pride...
Really, outside the Rose Bowl, every other bowl is a beauty contest that I could care less about. Sucks for the players, because they earned the “esteem” of a higher ranked bowl; but lets face it, we weren’t competitive against the really good teams we played and lost a close one against a comparably “above average” team. The match-ups for the bowls that passed us over were boring anyway.
Let’s see some cover-2 (like a real grown-up football team!), watch McGloin look like Joe McMontana like he always does against crappy defenses (the dude would have KILLED had he gone to the MAC, just sayin’), Silas/Green hang up two hundge, and we get an excuse to keep the booze flowing through January 2.
by SkellerDweller06 on Dec 5, 2011 9:27 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Screwed up bowl pecking order aside
I do think PSU is playing a better team than OSU or Nebraska drew, and roughly equal to what jNW got
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
While this is some bullshit
Lets make the best out of the situation.
Whoever has the time/funds to travel to the bowl game should. Sell out the TicketCity bowl and flood their sponsors with our dollars. Lets just make sure that at least TicketCity rakes in our PSU money while the bowls that passed us struggle to fill their stadiums with Iowa and Ohio State fans that have nothing to be excited about.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 9:56 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Listen...
This is a good matchup on paper for PSU. A team with a prolific passing attack, which was one game from a possible BCS birth, against a classic Penn State team that loves to run the ball and play defense. Considering State has 3 losses this year, I think this is pretty cool…think back to the Holiday Bowl against BYU back in the day.
That said, I’m pissed that the Bowl Selection committees treated this team like cancer. Last time I checked, no kid touchers are on the roster.
Penn State will rise again, and the bowl committees will be banging down the tour to get the largest alumni base in the nation to buy tickets, shop in their cities, eat in their restaurants, etc.
I really agree with this
Like another commenter said above…everything after the BCS is all the same to me….you just hope for a decent matchup. Hopefully Keenum gets invited to The Downtown Athletic Club Saturday.
(yes, I know the Heisman is not at the DAC anymore, I just think it’s cool as hell and I’ll always affiliate the Heisman with the DAC)
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Right...
I’m more pissed about the BCS Title being a rematch game than I am about PSU getting a 9th tier bowl game.
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 5, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I was too but see my post below.
We have no one to blame but our own conference.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure what power the fans really have in that situation though...
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 5, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
You don't have any
But blaming anyone other than the Commissioners is wrong. They had a chance to act upon the SEC’s proposal and didn’t due to self interest and now many of them are paying a steep price that extends to the Conference carving we have seen.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
The SEC proposal...
was classic politicking. Let’s make a proposal that has no chance of passing for the sake of show. It’s just like Congress. The SEC does not want a +1 or a playoff. The current system gives them at least one team in the BCSCG every year.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Or, if you read the article, the proposal was made in response to Auburn in '04
The SEC actually had a better shot for BCS love if they get the play in games.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I thought they made the proposal...
in the last two years. They bitched about Auburn sure but have played in every single title game since 2006.
Delany doesn’t want a +1 or playoff becuase he thinks it will mean less money for the B1G (not sure I agree with him, but he does know how to make $).
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
the proposal was in '08
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Just some food for thought about the BCS Title Game
We can bitch and moan all we want, but it was Delany, and the Big 10, along with every other major conference save the ACC who rejected the SEC’s proposal for a +1 playoff system to determine the BCS title.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
It's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is more like the good advice that you just didn't take.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
STOP THIS NOW
I know what you’re doing.
by Artiefufkin10 on Dec 5, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
more like rain, on your wedding day
"I've seen over 200 episodes of Law & Order and it's paying off big time!"
y
more like rain raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnn, on your wedding day
That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.
And Spanier
Don’t forget the 12 people who give Delany his marching orders.
I complain for two reasons
1) It’s only because of voters in the South that Alabama’s in that game. If it were up to voters in the rest of the country and / or the BCS computers, it would be Oklahoma State.
2) 2006 THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE. Michigan had a far superior resume to play OSU again after the 2006 season, but Florida did because Michigan “had their chance.” Michigan had better wins, a superior loss, and had played fewer close games against meh teams. Lest we forget, Florida beat Tennessee because a FG as time expired missed; Michigan gave PSU the worst 7 point beating I’ve ever seen; and PSU would go on to physically punish Tennessee. Michigan lost to OSU on the road, Alabama lost at home.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
by ckmneon on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This just screams for Rambler to address
1) It’s only because of voters in the South that Alabama’s in that game. If it were up to voters in the rest of the country and / or the BCS computers, it would be Oklahoma State.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Bama...
Not only did they lose at home. They failed to score a TD, they had one of the worst displays of special teams I have ever seen, and they didn’t really beat anybody good all year.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
See: Penn State, Arkansas, Auburn
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Bama's got some solid wins
and that’s the order I’d rank them in, but the computers don’t find that nearly as impressive as Oklahoma, Kansas State, and Baylor.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Really?
Where is Arkansas tragically flawed?
PSU is tragically flawed on offense.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
the head coach?
I kid.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is actually a good point
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Auburn stinks...
as does Arkansas. PSU is meh. Georgia Southern might be their best win.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
You my friend are smoking some good stuff.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
only the best...
who did Auburn beat that was any good? Arkansas? PSU? Bama had 3 wins over FBS schools with a record better than 6-6. Not a lot of meat on those bones.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Then throw out the Auburn reference
The other teams are solid. Nothing you can argue there
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Watch what happens in all of the SEC - Big Ten matchups this year
It won’t be pretty
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Saying the SEC...
is better than the Big Ten is not the same as saying Bama’s resume is all that great. I think Bama is one of the 5 best teams in the country. I know they aren’t the best and I’m not sold on whether they are the 2nd best.
11/9/11 - the day the music died.
The bitter with the better.
by Esteban d' Amur on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think the B1G goes 2-1 vs. the SEC somehow
I’d take MSU over UGA, OSU over Florida, and Nebraska over Sakerlina all individually, but collectively, I think they drop one.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
First it is South Carolina
Please don’t insult us. We will beat Nebraska, Second I conceded the Florida game. But UGA against MSU can and should be a win.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Georgia-MSU depends largely on which MSU offense shows up
If bad MSU offense (the one that played Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Ohio State) shows up, I think Georgia wins. If good MSU offense (the one that played Wisconsin twice, Iowa, and Michigan) shows up, I think MSU wins with surprising (to some people, I guess) ease.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
But Michigan and OSU are B1G schools
And the B1G is clearly inferior to the SEC. Therefore, the two best schools in the nation can never be in the B1G because at least one of them must be from the SEC.
Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Step 1: Convince everyone of SEC Speed
Step 2: Preseason poll includes numerous SEC teams in the top 10
Step 3: Get wins against top 10 teams because of erroneous pre-season polls
Step 4: The best SEC team (or best two) cement their status as top 5 teams due to their record against top 10 teams
Step 5: SEC teams get into the big show. To their credit, they have won when there. Although, don’t the same people make the same argument as to why Boise always beats top teams? If you have a month to prepare and only have to play one or two big games a year, of course you’ll be up for it.
Step 6: Voters affirm they knew what they were talking about
Step 7: Wash, rinse, repeat
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Dec 5, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
OR try this recipe
1.) Have your dominant team beat the PAC12 Champs in convincing style
2.) then two weeks later have them travel to Morgantown to beat the Big East Champions.
3.) Then have your number two team travel to Happy Valley to beat the co-champion of the Leaders division in convincing fashion.
4.)Then have your number 4 or 5 team beat down the ACC champs.
Do you see a pattern?
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wait until after the bowls
I don’t think the SEC or Big 12 is anywhere close to as good as the computers do, and I’m about as impressed with a beatdown of Clemson or WVU as I am with Georgia Tech, NC State, or Syracuse.
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
But regardless of the teams
The two teams playing in the championship have beat down two conference champs in AQ conferences, and beat a co-division champ on the road by three scores in a third.
Then their 4th or 5th best team smacked down another AQ Con Champ.
I don’t get where people say the SEC isn’t ahead of the other conferences by a wide margin. Proof is in the pudding.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
The computers are in pretty universal agreement
that the Big 12 was by far the best league this year
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
I thought the Big 12 was pretty tough this year, and I HATE to say that
Baylor, OKSt, Ok, all pretty good. A&M, Iowa St, Mizzou, maybe Texas, not bad.
His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo
The Big 12 greatly benefitted from Iowa's collapse against ISU
If Iowa wins that, and it was a 3OT game on the road that Iowa was leading for over 30 minutes and never trailed in regulation, the computers probably view the Big 12, SEC, and Big Ten pretty evenly
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
But since they didn't
It’s Big 12 > SEC > Big Ten > Other BCS leagues >>>>>> everyone else
GO IOWA AWESOME, now and forever, until PSU sees them in basketball and wrestling
Beat Wisconsin
Well without context that list seems convincing
1) Ok, I agree with that. I can’t believe Oregon gave Auburn a game last year anyways.
2) Beating West Virginia (even as the Big East champions) is something I think most high schools in the area could do.
3) Please don’t use the word co-champion. We weren’t co-champions. We lost handidly to the Champions, and would have likely lost to MSU as well. Also, we didn’t even play Michigan, who very well may have also beaten us. Even if we are going to use that, Alabama only put up 27 on us, and held us to 11. Wiscy laid 45 on us by the 3rd quarter and held us to 7. By that reasoning, Wiscy should at least get a shot at LSU.
4) Clemson was the ACC champion. Clemson. A team that lost to both Georgia Tech and got beat to hell by a Russel Wilsonless NC State.
I’m not arguing that LSU isn’t deserving of a spot this year. They absolutely are. I think they are the best team in the nation. I also think Wisconsin could give them a game. But to throw PSU, the Big East champions and the ACC champs in there as if winning those games is some kind of crazy milestone is a bit disengenious to the discussion.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
To add a little bit here
4) NC state was the 7th best team in the ACC (going by straight conference W/L records). They beat Clemson 37-13. USC beat Clemson 34-13.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
What's fair?
In many previous years, we got bowl games better than our record strictly earned because of our proven ability to get fans to travel and get people to watch on TV. Was that fair to the other teams’ players? No, of course not.
Now, this year, there’s some concern about our team generating negative publicity for the bowls. Fair to our players? No. But part of the expected outcome? Yes. Substantially more unfair to our players than us getting selected above other teams in other years was to their players? NO. Not even close. As Chris says upstream, our program allowed some horrible things to happen. Their programs just didn’t bring enough butts in seats and eyeballs to screens.
I don't feel like falling down the rabbit hole
But this isn’t about what our program did or did not allow to happen. In the words of SuePa we will find out the truth in Court. Until then it is all speculation and undue punishment for a group of young men and coaches who worked their asses off this season.
If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time. - Franco Harris
by carolinaeasy on Dec 5, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Screw the name on the bowl game.
We’re playing a very good Houston team that could have been lobbying for a National Championship Game slot 72 hours ago. Penn State and its players have been screwed by just about everyone in the past month: a pedophile, ESPN, and the bowl system. The only way to beat people that screw you is to take the gut punches and then deliver your own right back.
Suit up (ties for the trip, cleats for the game) and treat the game like the National Championship, because that’s what Penn State does.
by Tezcatlipoca on Dec 5, 2011 11:03 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
The process was crappy, but the end result is fine
We’ve got a New Year’s day game in the Cotton Bowl between two ranked teams that were very close to making the BCS. Game on!
by newenglandnittanylion on Dec 5, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
I watched the NYC morning news this a.m. (forget which channel)
And they had a segment about the bowl games being decided. The only ones they told about were the MNC and the Penn State-Houston game. At first I thought it really odd, considering there are 5,436 bowl games, but then I was annoyed b/c it was like they’re rubbing it in that they we’re gong to this no-name bowl game. Would you like a little more salt in that wound??
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"
I thought a school couldn't slip more than two bowls
Isnt there a Bowl Selection rule stating that a school couldn’t slip more than two slots? PSU tied for third. With rank it makes us fourth. So worst we should go to the sixth seed B1G bowl. Am I wrong here?
by PSUinOH on Dec 5, 2011 11:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
That rule only applies
when the Cap One and Outback are picking. After that It’s a free for all.
Also, I’m not entirely positive, but the wording of the rule may have to do with being within one loss or something like that.
The only rules are
B1G Championship Game loser can’t drop lower than the 4th pick not counting the AQ bid (if eligible, should we have a UCLA situation one year).
CapOne and Outback can’t select a team with 2 fewer overall wins or 2 more overall losses than the remaining teams
Everyone else picks whomever they want out of all the eligible teams, No more 7-5 vs. 6-6 rule.
To be fair
This is what other schools go through every year. Players from schools like Northwestern, Oregon State, et al go to lower bowls because they don’t have any fans. They get punished for something that isn’t their fault. This is just the latest injustice. Maybe it’s just me, but the bowl system should be merit based. I love free economies, but this is “amateur” sports and isn’t about the money. Right???
An Alabama post released the coaches' poll individual votes
Sumlin did not have Penn State in his Top 25. More fuel for the fire.
Beat Houston.
Penn State better not get caught napping
Houston likes to attack during siesta, just ask Santa Anna.
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