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Looks like the claims that Victim Two was either not going to testify or found by Sandusky and going pro-defense were just Lionel Hutz-isms.

6 months ago 4556685_tiny M1EK 27 comments 0 recs  | 

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You didn't smell bullshit on Armendola's statements re Victim #2 from the get go?

The kid that Armendola put up as Victim #2 is 29 years old, making him 19 or 20 at the time of the shower incident. Whether Armendola’s Victim #2 was really the person in the shower with Sandusky or not, the whole angle is a pretty transparent attempt to undermine McQueary’s credibility (can you be sure the person you saw was only 10 years old? did you really see them? are you really sure of anything you saw that night?).

I’ll tell you why. Because we’re talking about Joe Freaking Paterno here.
-Jitterbug

by leeharvey418 on Dec 6, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

I did.

Many others used it as a reason to cast doubt on McQueary in an attempt to defend Joe.

by M1EK on Dec 6, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I would have thought that the GJ could have subpenaed documents from 2nd Mile

to help them identify the victims. They could have contacted everyone in the 8 to 16 yr age group from that time to see if there was anyone that would come forward. I’m a bit more interested in next week’s hearings for Schultz and Curley. I guess they could wave but I’m just curious if the he said, he said differences will come out. GJ testimony can’t be used in court but I don’t know if it can be cited by the prosecution in the prelim.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

BMAN

Quick question… can you provide any references (preferably online – not wikipedia!) that the GJ testimony (or the presentment itself) can’t be used in court?

A friend in Boston is writing something for the Chronicle of Higher Ed and has a quote from a Harvard lawyer about the quality of “presentments,” and was also using the Nov. 17th WSJ article. Would love to pass anything along. Thanks.

*

by Smee on Dec 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy

the document itself is hearsay. It’s an out-of-court statement offered for the truth of the matter asserted. It doesn’t fit into any of the exceptions.

It’s inadmissible for several reasons, including that it would violate the Defendant’s Confrontation Clause rights, since the defendant had no representation at the grand jury proceedings and no opportunity to object or cross-examine witnesses.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

For references, look up PA Rules of Criminal Procedure Article VIII

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

what Octa said

I know that any testimony at the GJ has to re-testified to in court. Just like any evidence that is collected by police has to be entered into court. The GJ is just a way of collecting evidence, in Pa., for wide ranging crimes, like organized crime or someone that committed crimes over many jurisdictions (magic force fields) like drug cartels. This case did extend to multiple jurisdictions and the original DA, Madiera had to recuse himself because of his 2nd Mile and Sandusky familiarity. When the AG got the case, he realized it may extend to many areas and entities including 2nd Mile and PSU.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The Patriot News/Penn Live contradicts the ABC report with an article today.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/several_people_expected_to_tes.html

Also, I had dates wrong. JS is next tuesday. Today should be Curley and Schultz’s hearings but I’ve read nothing about that. Their original dates were not changed. Wonder if their charges will be dropped.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

I thought the Curley/Schultz hearings were

punted to the 16th or thereabout.

Yup, here you go.

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu

by rahpsu92 on Dec 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

IIRC last week the state asked for another delay and it was granted. I believe it’s in two weeks.

by psuwresfan on Dec 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

There you go again.....

believing verbatim everything one source says which backs up your opinion, while dismissing as nonsense anything else.

by FB6244 on Dec 6, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Good. The prosecution

needs as much ammunition against Jerry Sandusky as they can get. Next thing you know the state botches the trail, Sandusky once again slips away and a giant mess is left in his wake.

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu

by rahpsu92 on Dec 6, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions  

I fear this. especially the way Corbett, Noonan and Kelly botched their press conference.

I mean, they threw two prosecution witnesses under the bus, stupid. It should have been Kelly, only. Corbett had no reason to be there as he spent over two yrs and got nothing and Kelly takes over and gets an indictment in less than a year. And Noonan didn’t need to be there either. The AG has been quite silent since and was probably not happy about Gov and PSP chief and their antics and grandstanding.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Looks like 6 now

According to the AP story

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

doesn't fit the agenda, must believe ABC. This one refutes it also as does the Patriot News I posted above.

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/12/06/3010808/lawyer-6-sandusky-accusers-to.html

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, and M1EK...I'm not even really sure what the difference between 6 and 8 would be

unless you’re presupposing you know what they’re going to testify about. What if Victim 2 actually does testify, but says only that he showered with Sandusky or maybe did something inappropriate that WASN’T anal sex, or that he was assaulted at a different time but not the night that McQueary has testified about?

Just saying that the number of victims that will testify alone really doesn’t mean anything. WHy don’t we just wait to see who testifies and what they say, this is silly at this point.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Because

aurabass was all over the other threads insisting that since we now knew Victim Two was going to testify for the defense (based on what Lionel Hutz said) that Joe was innocent of every shred of everything ever said against him.

That’s why.

The difference between 6 and 8 is pretty important, too. If it’s really 6, that is.

by M1EK on Dec 6, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I meant if it’s 6 that’s obviously something. But there could be all 8, and it would not logically follow that what testimony comes from the 8 would be any different than the testimony that comes from just 6. You can’t assume the victims that didn’t testify to the grand jury will testify to anything specific, since we’ve never heard anything from them yet.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

There also may be 8 now testifying because of the new victims that have come forward.

still missing victim 2 and the janitor victim.

His legacy is US. The legacy of the young men who he took from a variety of backgrounds, races, religions, economic circumstances and set on a right path, and that's the legacy. WE ARE... the legacy, not his 409 wins and certainly not this incident." -Jimmy Cefalo

by BMAN13 on Dec 6, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

That's another good point

You can add or drop charges at a preliminary hearing.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Dec 6, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean

if the 6 doesn’t include Victim Two after all. Victim Two is the important one as far as Penn State is concerned.

by M1EK on Dec 7, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Now WRONG is the only thing to know about M1EK
Because
aurabass was all over the other threads insisting that since we now knew Victim Two was going to testify for the defense (based on what Lionel Hutz said) that Joe was innocent of every shred of everything ever said against him. That’s why.

Now M1EK has to show us where I ever said anything more than we should not rush to judgment until all the facts are in. This obviously flawed report tells us nothing about VICTIM 2 and what VICTIM 2 might say. The defense remarks could easily be as wrong as the prosecution’s Grand Jury Report. But M!EK as always wants us to rush to judgment based on the most ambiguous of TV reports.
M1EK is already known for agreeing with the ESPN Media Frenzy that fired Joe.
I stand by my “wait and see” suggestions and continue to propose that the defense could be right about VICTIM 2 – we just don’t know.
But we do know that M1EK is WRONG about my position and his remark is a blatant LIE.
Not that he would every admit being wrong.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Dec 6, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Not accurate.

I went back and re-read several of the threads to which I referred. I stand by my characterization of how you treated the defense claims that they had Victim Two and/or that he was friendly towards them.

by M1EK on Dec 7, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Way beyond not accurate M1EK

You don’t have a leg to stand on or you would copy and paste the instances where I insisted that the defense is correct. I made no such claim. Pointing out that the defense has an alternate theory of the case and the events of March 1 does not make them correct – it only supports MY VIEW that we should wait and see in opposition to your view that we already know enough to condemn and rush to judgment.

You haven’t gotten that yet and I now fully believe that you never will.

You like to say you “remain unconvinced” but the truth is you are convinced of Joe Paterno’s moral failure and the truth of the Grand Jury report as applies to Victim 2. We who oppose that view are the one’s who remain unconvinced until all the facts are in. It is blindly disingenuous of you to talk about accuracy and remaining unconvinced. You have shown yourself to be incapable of accepting the clear reality that we do not know enough to judge much more than your lack of good judgement in your campaign to discredit Joe Paterno.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Dec 7, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I stand by the characterization

and I do not accept homework from somebody this unbalanced. Your effort to reframe this as yourself “remaining unconvinced” is transparently obvious – you ignore every piece of evidence which doesn’t fit the “Joe did the right thing” argument, while I actually address hypotheticals both directions.

by M1EK on Dec 9, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

My Manifesto for M1EK and his constant attempts to judge

All Eight Sandusky Victims To Testify

Looks like the claims that Victim Two was either not going to testify or found by Sandusky and going pro-defense were just Lionel Hutz-isms.

This is your tag line for the absurd headline you used in your fan shot. Seems quite celebratory as if this makes the defense attorney an automatic liar and the broadcast the truth. No "if this story proves to be the truth" or "we should now wait and see if this is accurate". NO you characterize this story as accurate and mock the defense. That is quite celebratory – you could not wait to see if there were alternate published or broadcast versions of this situation – which there were. You immediately put out a Fan Shot and posted the same thing in more than one thread on BSD.

No reservation
No contemplation
No equivocation
M1EK believes in JoePa’s guilt because the campus police are not cops and this bogus TV story

This could serve as my constant reply to every M1EK post:
As the collective “we” that you accuse of collaboration agrees –
1) We remain unconvinced by what little we know.
2) We choose to wait and see
3) We choose to NOT rush to judgment
4) We choose to consider Joe Paterno innocent of any wrongdoing or potential moral failure until we know the full facts.
5) We choose to hope that he is vindicated and this stain on PSU is erased when it is revealed that Victim 2 was perhaps not sexually assaulted and the charges attributed to that incident are dropped.
6) We hope for the best for Penn State and the honorable coach who did so much good because that would be a good thing
and
7) We dislike and disassociate ourselves with your celebratory glee and rush to judge and post the slightest crap that might possibly undermine that hope that PSU and JoePa did indeed do the right thing.

That seems to be what you are up against here M1EK
Your hope that PSU and JoePa are guilty against our hope that they are not. WE REMAIN UNCONVINCED OF THEIR GUILT and it is abundantly clear that you disagree with US.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Dec 7, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

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