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"It's all Jimmy's fault!" and other observations on institutional control

BSD: Bump...couldn't say it better myself.

"It's all Jimmy's fault!"

That has been Ohio State's basic contention since January, when President Gordon Gee and Athletic Director Gene Smith were allegedly informed of the scandal brewing in offices of Jim Tressel's storied program.  Now, the NCAA has essentially confirmed that theory.

Today, the initial phase of the investigation of the Ohio State football program concluded with the NCAA preferring charges against the university.  The first charge alleges that Ohio State player "received preferential treatment" and "sold institutionally issued athletic awards, apparel, and/or equipment."  The second, and far more damning, charge alleges that Tressel not only "knew or should have known" of the first charge, but that he "failed to deport himself in accordance with . . . honesty and integrity," specifically by failing to report potential violations to his supervisors (particularly by claiming he "didn't know who to tell") and lying directly to the NCAA.

Potential sanctions were detailed by the Columbus Dispatch here, including postseason bans and loss of scholarships.  Tressel himself also faces the possibility of a show-cause penalty, which could effectively end his coaching career.  To put it mildly, these charges are serious and reflect the NCAA's recently renewed commitment to sanctioning major athletic departments for their misconduct.

Star-divide

The strangest news, at least for me, was the fact that the NCAA essentially left a bullet in the chamber.  Since the death penalty disaster of SMU in the late-80s, the most serious allegation that the NCAA can prefer against a university is "lack of institutional control."  I was surprised, and thought I might as well look into the charge since we hear the words bandied about so much by the media.

So what did I learn?  Well, I learned that parties acting in good faith can vehemently disagree.  The NCAA obviously brought the charges that they think they can prove, but I'm fairly certain that if I was in charge of the investigation of the Buckeyes, I would have certainly charged them with "lack of institutional control."

First, a description of the charge here, provided by the NCAA's Committee on Infractions.

Before delving into the meat of the issue, it's helpful to look at undisputed facts.  Since the 2001 season, the Ohio State football program has seen itself embroiled in controversy with freshman phenom Maurice Clarrett (charged and then cleared with academic misconduct issues, then dismissed from the team for filing a false police report), Troy Smith (suspended several games after taking money from a booster), and Santonio Holmes (alleged to have received preferential treatment by an agent, though no charges were filed by the NCAA).  In addition to the current charges, Ohio State has the unenviable distinction of reporting more secondary violations (375 as of 5/31/09) than anyone else in FBS since 2000.

The NCAA's definition of institutional control is, in my view, fairly direct.

In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control . . . it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced.  It is important that policies and procedures be established so as to deter violations and not merely to discover their existence after they have taken place.

Ohio State has often been touted for their large compliance department, and the fact that they're good at their job has been the primary defense to the absurd number of secondary violations the institution has self-reported.  In my mind, though, the bolded language above speaks for itself.  The Ohio State compliance department has done a remarkable job in finding athletic department violations.  But the compliance department can't prevent those violations from happening.  It's up to the administration and those in charge of the programs to make sure that their athletes and colleagues are deterred from this behavior.  So far, it's clear that deterrence hasn't been the Ohio State model.  Instead of correcting behavior, the number of continued violations alone indicate that sanctions are minimal and behavior is essentially tolerated.

If this is still too abstract, here are the "Acts that are likely to demonstrate a lack of institutional control" that are applicable to the factual situation delineated above.

A person with compliance responsibilities fails to establish a proper system for compliance or fails to monitor the operations of the compliance system appropriately.

A person with compliance responsibilities does not take steps to alter a system of compliance when there are indications the system is not working.

The institution fails to make clear, by its words and its actions, that those personnel who willfully violate NCAA rules, or who are grossly negligent in applying those rules, will be disciplined and made subject to discharge.

The institution fails to make clear that any individual involved in its intercollegiate athletics program has a duty to report any perceived violations of NCAA rules and can do so without fear of reprisals of any kind.

A head coach fails to create and maintain an atmosphere for compliance within the program the coach supervises or fails to monitor the activities of assistant coaches regarding compliance.

 

How can the NCAA possibly not charge "lack of institutional control" based on this?  It seems to me that the NCAA relies heavily on this sentence - "In a case where proper procedures exist and are appropriately enforced, especially when they result in prompt detection, investigation and reporting...there may be no lack of institutional control although the individual or individuals involved may be held responsible."  

Here's the direct correlation with Jim Tressel.  Tressel has been at Ohio State longer than either Gee or Smith and it's his sport that has caused so much consternation.  Maybe in the eyes of the NCAA, it's appropriate for him to shoulder the blame.  But to me, that's ridiculous.  The NCAA cites it's standard as a "practical, common-sense" test.  There's nothing practical or common sense about making one man the target of an investigation when his behavior has been systemically enabled by an entire institution.

......but we just disagree.

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Comments

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This article was long so I rec'd it

then I read it and I’m glad I did.

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on Apr 25, 2011 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Bravo!

How they are not being charged for “lack of institutional control” is beyond me. Not only can they not control their players, but they cannot seem to control their coach.

I don’t want to see a B1G school go through this, as it makes the rest of us look bad. However I do hope the NCAA comes down on tOSU so hard that those smug jerks can’t talk for years.

Can the B1G levie penalties as well?

"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"

by amandakt on Apr 25, 2011 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

It's pretty simple.

Not to get political, but the example is too obvious: not even considering nations other than ours, and not even considering events before the 20th century, there have been many, many, basically countless examples of Federal, state, and local governments all failing to enforce their own laws when it’s in their self-interest to do so. And, of course, that the NCAA would do it now in this case is not even close to being a new sort of thing for them do, let alone American governmental agencies.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 25, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

From what I remember from Sports Law

was that Alabama faced nearly the same [if not worse] accusations than SMU did but did not go through the lack of institutional control or the death penalty. We had a conversation in class as to why we thought this was the case. There were many possibilities such as they saw what it did to SMU and didn’t want any other school to go through that. However, what I thought was the main reason was brought up by the professor who stated that “maybe simply because they are Alabama” meaning that they had to much history, too many people in high places etc. These could easily be the same case with tOSU

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would disagree about the Alabama case being worse than the SMU case. SMU’s Board of Governors, the president of the school, the governor-elect of the state of Texas promised to stop corruption and even drop football to protect the school’s integrity while simultaneously paying athletes with slush funds. It is very unlikely that SMU’s hubris will ever be matched, or that their corruption will ever be equalled.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sanctions hurt universities

Like it or not, successful football programs boost admissions. High school kids want to go to a college that will provide them with an opportunity to have fun just as much as get a good education. When the NCAA gave SMU the death penalty, all of the negative publicity made SMU go from one of the premier souther universities to basically a glorifed junior college. It killed the entire university, and not just the football program.

After that, I believe the NCAA realized it wasn’t fair to destroy an entire school like that. That’s why they will probably never do it again.

by BSD on Apr 26, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's a very good point

I guess I never realized that aspect of it. I was too young to remember SMU being a premier university and we didn’t really discuss that aspect in class. But, I do remember PSU’s applications going through the roof after the 2005 season.

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

My freshman class in 2006 was something like 10,000 kids.

Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.

by Kyle_Martin on Apr 30, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the class size increases too much year to year

but the increase in the number of applications theoretically leads to a increase in the quality of incoming students.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 30, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I remember being told it was the biggest freshman class in their history. I could be mistaken though.

Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.

by Kyle_Martin on Apr 30, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, you're right.

It was the largest class in university history. That was my sophomore year and I remember some people making a big deal about it.

by lion09 on Apr 30, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I don't understand

is that while I’m sure the class size increases somewhat each year, it isn’t like Penn State doesn’t already turn away a bazillion people every year, so why would they all of a sudden accept a lot more people one year just because the football team performed well the prior year.

by The JuggerNitt on May 1, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a statistical anomaly.

We had a similar issue at my law school several years ago. The school has a general number of students that they can safely enroll every semester. In order to get that number, they have an algorithm that shows them how many offers they can send out based on the common acceptance rate.

The problem always happens when more students accept the offers than expected. For example (and using very small and completely unscientific numbers), let’s say Penn State has a target number of 30 new students and the normal acceptance rate for offers is 30%. They know that if they put out 100 offers and get a 30% acceptance rate, they’ll hit the target they want. But this year, acceptances come in at 45%. Suddenly, they’re well over capacity.

Obviously it’s more complicated than that, but after these kinds of they they adjust the numbers and sort everything out.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on May 1, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure I buy that entirely.

I can see it causing a perception problem, but I’m not sure it would cause a material problem. I doubt anyone considers the football programs when they apply to Ivy League schools.

I dunno….I have to think about this for a bit.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, no

If you are set on getting an MBA and making millions on Wall St., you’re probably not concerned that the football team went 6-6 last year.

But if you’re an average student looking to get a degree in education or engineering, you are going to look at more than just university rankings. There isn’t much difference between an education degree from Penn State, Ohio State, Texas, Millersville, Bloomsberg or Shippensburg. So other factors are going to weigh in. How far is it from home? Will I be bored to tears on campus, or will there be a lot of activities to participate in? And a big factor for a lot of kids is sporting events. Football is a big reason why PSU has 40,000 undergraduates and Lock Haven only has 4000.

by BSD on Apr 26, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

That and the fact that...

Lock Haven is even more remote than State College.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

State College is there because of the university. It was nothing but farm land and wilderness before the Land Grant.

by BSD on Apr 26, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Circular logic!

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Better than a circular attack...

"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation

by leeharvey418 on Apr 26, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

PERSONNEL ATTACK?

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Apr 26, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was about to disagree with your tying PSU, OSU and Texas

to those other schools. Then a realized you meant a degree in education (rather than getting “an education”) at those schools.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

There’s been some research out there that shows that most undergrad programs provide the same level of education regardless of the size/location/prestige. (Whether the students actually obtain that education is a different story…) The differences start to shake out when you get to the graduate/doctoral levels.

The whole US News rankings is just a load of subjective crap to make schools feel better about their egos.

Gus, don't be a gooey chocolate chip cookie.

by IcersGuy on Apr 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I found this comment interesting

And I’m really curious about the future of secondary education in this country, specifically its costs. I have this sense (hope?) that the whole model will flatten over the next 10-15 years as Information and high-speed access to it continues to be more and more available and cheaper/free. But I haven’t read enough about it. Only two articles I’ve read were about the Gates Foundation’s struggles spending their education money effectively and the latest increase in Venture Capital funding for education tech startups.

What do you think, icersguy? Without getting political, that is.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hopeful that the IRS

Increased scrutiny of the Unrelated Business Income will force them to be more honest about their mission.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

You want to see it pop?

New statute allowing student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Similar idea.

Both sound effective.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Similar result

Except one pretty much forecloses the opportunity for a lot of people to go to college, and the other might make college more affordable.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on Apr 26, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

what accounts for the dramatic

rise of tuition since the early 80s?

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Greed.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on Apr 26, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know you’re too smart to blame greed for what is really the result of a myriad of economic and cultural factors combined with governmental policy.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

HUGE cuts in educational spending

since the early 80’s have helped. then other factors as RR said.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now, I’ll admit that greed plays into governmental policy (Oh, does it ever…) but it’s still probably not the biggest single factor.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

that would be awesome

You could graduate, not get a job in your career choice, which is quite plausible right now, take a job a Sheetz, rack up some credit card debt because all your $$$ is going to the student loan and then claim bankruptcy. 7 yrs later be clear and able to buy a nice starter home at age 32.

I really hope this happens because as a parent and grandparent the cost of higher education is absolutely out of reach.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've already realized that

for me to put any future jmen(jwomen) through college, I need to start saving now. And probably should have started saving about 15 years ago. Of course, being an 11 year old at the time, I had better things to spend my allowance on.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Examples?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Franklin County Corn Whiskey, for one

Probable others:

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha fabulous

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

GI Joes

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Legos. The list is endless.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Loving all the answers this has inspired.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Publicity is like poison; it doesn't hurt unless you swallow it.
Joe Paterno

by tlrpsu on Apr 26, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

/dork'd

Gus, don't be a gooey chocolate chip cookie.

by IcersGuy on Apr 26, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

They definitely need limitations on loans

There’s an article out there somewhere about how “for-profit” schools actually enroll homeless people to get the gov’t loan, and then leave the government to go after the homeless.

Quite a racket.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the biggest?

Those emails from Nigeria?

Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.

by WorldBFat on Apr 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

As it exists now or as initially intended?

I have no problem with the original concept of a safety net for the nation’s poorest. Unfortunately it morphed into something like this.

by CvilleLion on Apr 26, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is that FDR started it for purely political reasons, and then some other guys (Many, many) did nothing good with it for purely political reasons, and now everyone is afraid to talk about the fact that it’s basically unsustainable (Do you know how many baby boomers there are?) because of purely political reasons.

In summary:

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, sure, your last paragraph is true.

But, as much as I hate seeing politics discussed on sports blogs, I do like to see people discussing this issue out in the open with reason and not loud noises. Why? Because this damn business is bankrupting you, me, and the children of some twenty year old mom’s children. And the more people who know that the better.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

When it was first set up

wasn’t it originally something like 17 contributors to one recipient. Now it’s down to 3 to 1 or something crazy like that.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 27, 2011 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree soooo much with you Breezy

Smart people will succeed whether college educated or not. I could do my elect. engineering job with the skill set I learned in high school. I work with master degree engrs that couldn’t troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag. I also work with master degree business people that can’t hold a candle to the ex-military logistics people that only have high school and on the job training.
done with rant….

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

The future of higher ed will be interesting

I think the wave of online schooling will continue to rise. More schools are using online classes; online colleges are (slowly) becoming more reputable; and better technology is becoming available to support the full “classroom feel”. Whether that will mean a change in costs, I don’t know – unless something changes in our overriding culture, money reigns supreme. I think there will have to be a major fallout before we see reductions in costs of college (either self-imposed or government imposed).

Gus, don't be a gooey chocolate chip cookie.

by IcersGuy on Apr 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is a bubble in the education world

For-profit schools aren’t necessarily the answer; you can’t run education purely for the bottom line. But there will be a breaking point for traditional-style schools. Prices have outstripped inflation and only the ultra-wealthy can afford luxury education. Schools outside of the old guard the elite love will be forced to adjust.

On a research level, it’s increasingly clear grad students and post docs just aren’t getting good ROI. They work long hours, have no permanent position, and have little chance for advancement since tenured profs sit at the top of the system. Eventually smart folks will catch on they are just supporting on the cheap the profs whose positions they can’t get.

There really is no substitute for high quality education that pushes students and fosters critical thinking. But that is not what students are necessarily getting. And the schools that truly get the most from students generally are not good values.

by gcdyersb on Apr 29, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

There are only two profs in my department,

who are under the age of 40 (I’m one of them). We’re going to see a massive wave of retirement soon with chances for new assistant professors. I don’t know if the trend is the same in all departments, but there is definitely room for growth in my part of academia. Assistant professorships mean lower salaries and more opportunities for post-docs and new PhDs (since a lot of people in my field don’t do post-docs).

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 29, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree with this.

But I would also tend to think that the curve at the more “prestigious” schools would be less generous.

I pride myself in being a “curve bringer-downer” during my undergrad years. By being such, I like to think that I aided many of my fellow students’ degree journey.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with this

I know alot of friends who went to “lesser” four year colleges than I, and they are currently doing just as well, if not better than I am. High schools make it seem like you are better off at a name brand school over a millersville or bloomsburg or wilkes, but in reality the school you go to doesnt matter as much as what you learned and the opportunities you make for yourself after school.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought we all knew

That no education compares to a PSU education?!

Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.

by Kyle_Martin on Apr 30, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree a little

yes it matters what you make for yourself after college. But getting that first job or getting into the grad school you want is a lot easier with PSU on the resume/application rather than millersville.

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

not necessarily

thats what you are told in high school but I think its an overrated sentiment. Unless the two candidates up for the job have schools way different, like Princeton or Slippery Rock, then yea maybe it plays a factor. But I dont think its really that big of a difference (unless the HR guy went to your school) if its Temple/Albright or PSU/Bloomsburg. They are likely going to choose the person they like best, regardless of what school you went to.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes and no

when you get to the point of meeting them and having the interview yes. However, getting selected for that interview has a lot to do with what school you have on your resume.

And even if you claim PSU/Bloomsburg is about the same in PA, if you go outside the state there is no chance that that statement is accurate

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

whether they are the "same" is up for debate

im saying the idea that just because you have Penn State or Syracuse on your resume rather than SUNY Binghamton or Lock Haven means you will have more opportunities when you graduate is overrated and antiquated. No one cares anymore. My old roommate worked in HR, and I am close with the office manager at the firm I work for now and both have told me the same thing, your GPA and what you studied is what matters, unless you go ivy league or some place with a reputation far and away above the rest. They dont even look anymore, they only care that you finished. A 3.7 at bloom carries just as much weight as a 3.7 in state college.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually for public education a Slippery Rock, LHU, or Bloom degree

carries more weight than a PSU degree. I have had administrators tell me that point blank.

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Apr 26, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am a Bloom graduate

Go Huskies

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pro-Huskies, too.

My buddy coaches (football) there.

by J Breezy on Apr 27, 2011 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

once you go out of state

you get a whole lot of “Penn State, that’s Ivy League, isn’t it?”

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true.

The general public, outside the midwest or mid-atlanic states, doesn’t know the difference between Penn and Penn State. I generally take it in stride considering Penn is the better school, but I am sure Penn graduates hate answering questions about Paterno’s retirement.

by VVeRPennState on Apr 26, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at a function hosted by Penn alums down here,

and we joked about that. We get questions about the Ivy League and they get questions about football.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 26, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have two buddies who went to PIA.

(Pgh Institute of Aeronautics) They are now airplane mechanics. They went to school for 2 years straight and learned nothing but how to repair planes. A few years ago I went to their work (to help get their tools because they were fearing a lockout due to labor issues) and they showed me all around and what they do. It made my head spin. It’s an important job and not an easy one either. You can’t be a dope and do what they do. Anyway, they didn’t waste time getting all that peripheal crap…they just learned what they needed to know and also receive continuing ed. to keep up with technological changes.

That’s the way ALL schooling should be. Traditional college is based on an antiquated system. But it’s a money maker, big time. Has been especially so ever since the gov’t got involved (GI Bill after WW2, the big one).

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Teaching and learning skills are important

But so is learning how to learn, the number one goal of education, imho. Can you get from this teacher, at whatever brick or online institution improvement tips for how to think critically? Can you learn how to write and organize your critical thoughts in a way that puts forth an argument like collyer has done above? Can you learn how to gain an appreciation for art or history or literature or music, from those human beings on the planet who came before you and in so doing become a more fully-rounded and whole person? Can you learn to put those learnings to use in bedding a co-ed? These are the questions I’ll ask of future education systems.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

learning how learn should be taught in 3rd to 5th grade instead of freaking spelling, spelling, spelling

like spelling teaches you to read. Spelling teaches memorization which contrary to popular belief does not teach you how to learn. It teaches you to memorize. I know folks that know formulae out the butthole but I blow them away because I know how to do logarithms in my head. I have done that since 4th grade when my dad taught me the basics of circles and geometry.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

The most successful guy I knew....

…dropped out of school after 8th grade. His spelling was terrible, but his business and people skills were terrific and he became wealthy from them. He was no dummy, that’s for sure.

BMan….it’s obvious to me that you’re quite bright from your posts on here so it doesn’t surprise me in the least that you blow away the eggheads with practicality.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its just a sore point with me

My youngest son spent hundreds of hours studying spelling in elementary school but never learned to learn, just memorize. Even times tables, memorized. Fine for first grade but you need to learn what you memorize so you can use it. That is why there are college grads that don’t know how to balance a check book but can standard deviations using a formula.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I say this a lot and am not joking:

The most beneficial class I ever took turned out to be typing.

I took it in high school ONLY because I heard that you had to type term papers in college and if you couldn’t type then you’d have to pay somebody to type it for you. Being parsimonious guy I was and still am, I figured no way was I going to pay somebody to type for me. So I took it and was actually good at it. I never knew that typing (or keyboarding as I guess it is more accurately called now) would end up being so important and so advantageous to me in the future due to computers.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Another thing I say a lot and am not joking about:

I’ve learned far more on my own than I’ve ever learned in any structured setting (i.e., school).

Part of that is my makeup, though. I have difficulty with traditional learning. There is no doubt in my mind that had it been around when I was young I would’ve been classified as ADD. But if I read something I usually remember it quite well.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I have learned more on my own than any structured setting but then I love to learn. I was given free reign to teach myself math and reading in 4th grade (Thanks Miss Rader). I didn’t do the same reading stuff (SRA) or math as anyone in my class. I learned geometry and algebra with stuff Miss Rader brought in on her own. She then let others do the same as the year went on and this is how school should be. Not everybody is a math wiz or great writer
 I taught myself to play guitar but I still can’t read music which is just complete laziness on my part because it is all wave form math and notation. I am not ADD but….I can be as totally disinterested in something as anyone around. I can be really lazy too.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I probably am not ADD either.

It’s just that if something does not interest me then I have an extremely difficult time learning about it or even faking an interest in it. On the other hand, if I do like something I tend to learn it extremely well.

I can be lazy at times too, but I think most people who know me would have a hard time believing that.

I love to learn, too. I remember reading a story about Chuck Noll and it mentioned how he once read a book on metallurgy because he wanted to. That just impressed the h*ll out of me. People thought I was goofy because I once read a book about the B-17 Flying Fortress and they printed the training manual at the end of it and I read that, too. But a book on metallurgy just for kicks? Wow….

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was a WWI and II history buff in school but based more on the tech side

My two favorite books in high school were written by Arch Whitehouse
The Years of the War Birds WWII planes and stories
The Years of the Sky Kings WWI planes and stories.

I still know all kinds of useless military plane information from these two books. My dad was B29 navigator at the end of WWII and then worked for Boeing on the maintenance facility design for B52’s and B49’s.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was he in the mighty 8th?

I live near the museum and take semi-annual trips there to speak with the veterans.

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Apr 26, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Miss Rader sounds hot

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

she was my first “crush”
She liked my, I’m thinking now because I was a great student to have but I thought back then it was because I was the first boy to wear bellbottom pants to my elementary school and i had long hair for a kid back then.
Shout out to Franklin Elementary in Wiliamsport, Pa.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Williamsport?

My daughter wants to go to some college scholarship something or other there. Obviously I wasn’t paying attention when she and my wife were discussing it. Something like you go to this college for a week for a seminar or something and then you can get $1500 in schollie money or something like that to I guess pretty much any college.

What’s the name of the college in Williamsport? That’s where this thing is.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't live there anymore

but, there is Lycoming College and I believe old WACC is now called Penn College or Tech or something and is associated with PSU.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just made a patent law joke

Then I missed this comment and saw Rader below, and thought it was Judge Rader.

Needless to say, I’m disappointed.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

YES

I was just saying this the other day…

I took a typing class my freshman year of highschool, and it was the most useful thing I’ve ever done.

Granted mine was on a computer, not a typewriter, but it’s the same skill.

Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.

by Kyle_Martin on Apr 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spelling actually has some redeeming qualities when taught in conjunction with phonics

However, most schools are going to “sight” words to teach reading, rather than phonics which teaches you the mechanics of reading.

When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman

by carolinaeasy on Apr 26, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

My mom gave me 'Einstein Never Used Flash Cards'

Best parenting book I’ve read so far.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate sight words by itself, in conjunction with phonetics its very good.

I was a horrible speller until 1984 when I started doing crossword puzzles. I am definitely not smarter because of my spelling prowness. I was a huge reader in school but my spelling stunk. The only time I got good grades in spelling was when a teacher threatened me with an hour detention for every point less than 95 on tests. got A’s the rest of the year. I would take 25 spelling words and using them in order write a stupid story as my sentences but I still spelled the words wrong on the test. Drove my teacher nuts. I really hated studying to memorize, other than I like memorizing poems, songs sayings, crap like that. Just thought spelling was useless and you get better by just writing stuff, not memorizing for a stupid test at the end of the week.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

If sight words are anything near as useless (and actually detrimental)

as touchpoint math is…ugh! I don’t know how or why they think that is something that should be taught, but it is lunacy.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Proudly rec'd.

I distinctly recall learning on my own and from my parents essentially everything that formed my character and views. By the time I got to public high school, I was already of the opinion that public high school was not so great. I saw nothing to change that view.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

With three kids in school right now...

…I’m pretty much now convinced that school is a complete waste of time.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have had great teachers and some that were okay

Don’t think I ever had a bad teacher in el-hi other than junior English. I also was very lucky to go to schools that catered towards free spirits as myself. School isn’t a waste of time but some curriculums (sp) are a waste of time.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

School has changed since out day, BMan.

There are some aspects I like, but overall I am unimpressed and disappointed in our school system.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most teachers are crap

But you’ll get a few really really good ones, and it makes it all worth it. My AP Lang teacher in my Sr. year of high school is a guy I still talk to. His class did more to shape my thinking than any other one in high school.

Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.

by Kyle_Martin on Apr 30, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still go back and visit my Biology teacher from HS

Her bio class my freshman year made me decide to want to pursue science as a career. Some people didn’t like her, but I’ll never forget the impact on my educational path, or my passion for biological science that still exists for me today.

by dawsonPSU10 on Apr 30, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree.

advances are not made by persons of ordinary skill or knowledge in the art.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I agree with this

the biggest opportunity that name brand schools present is a large alumni network. Sure the education might be more or less the same for say PSU versus bloomsburg, but the brand that PSU is shapes how people feel about my resume.

Also, I can attest that I would gladly help any PSU alumn. I’m not saying that I would hire a PSU alumn because they are a PSU alumn, but if I have two more or less equal candidates, I’m hiring the PSU one over the bloomsburg one.

"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler

by psuphysicist on Apr 26, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I bet the Bloomsburg grad has better drugs.

"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation

by leeharvey418 on Apr 26, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

so I should change my previous response...

just kidding. Drugs are bad, kids. And stay in school.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.

by skarocksoi on Apr 26, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

ahem....

I don’t have them. But when I was at Bloom I could tell you who did

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's pretty much dead on.

The real difference between the Big Ten and the SEC, where we make lots of hay about academics, is at the graduate level. That’s still a reason to distinguish ourselves from them, but the education student-athletes get is entirely undergraduate. If we’re going to compare apples to apples, it should be student athlete education curriculum vs. student athlete education curriculum.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I very much agree with this, and might even extend it to the graduate/doctoral levels.

Especially at those levels, information is curriculum dependent (theory vs. practical education, for example, which has become especially relevant in my field).

I have about a billion thoughts on this, but it’s a sports blog, so limited to 3 very abridged points:

(1) PSU has always been what you make of it. If you wanted to take joke classes (including the gym credit – FITNESS WALKING? Please), you can find them. But if you want to challenge yourself and keep yourself on your toes, there are professors who are engaging and classes that are extremely difficult, but rewarding. You risk your GPA, but you’ll learn a lot about yourself.

(2) Half the problems we have in government and the upper level corporate world stem from what I call the “elite school bubble.” These people all went to the same 10 schools (undergraduate and graduate), had the same professors spouting the same theories, and hire almost exclusively from each other. That’s a shame, because you know there’s a kid who went to Monmouth University who didn’t have the means or the strategy to get into one of those schools, but would provide a brilliant and completely different perspective than what these people are used to seeing.

(3) Judging a 30+ year old man on the grades he received when he was 21 has to be the most absurd thing I’ve ever seen. Fantastic achievements shouldn’t be denigrated, but a guy who barely passed at Penn State shouldn’t have to drag that around with him his entire life once he’s proven himself capable in his field of choice.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not totally buying this

A degree from Penn State is going to hold a whole lot more weight to employers than a degree from Slippery Rock or Shippensburg or some other no name college. Sorry it just does – the name value of PSU allows a graduate to travel anywhere in the country and apply for a job and have an employer instantly accept that you got a quality education. Everyone in the country has heard of Penn State and knows their reputation as a school. Conversely if you went to the state of Indiana with your degree from Slippery Rock it would not be looked on as highly because the employer has never heard of the school and doesn’t know what kind of an education you got.

by catesinator on Apr 26, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's true, but it doesn't mean the PSU grad...

…is actually any more educated than the SRU or IUP grad.

I’ve long been of the opinion that a good education is there for the taking at almost every school. It’s up to the student to take it or not.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

sometimes the no name part can help

especially if you do particularly well at the no name school because your peers may have been lesser students. One student may struggle to get a 3.0 at an “elite” school but easily 4.0 at a no name school, but (especially out of state) if the admissions/employer hasn’t heard of the no name school they don’t have the same negative connotations that a local might have, just see the 4.0, and choose that person.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blasphemy!

Professors should be worshipped for the knowledge they can impart and the ability to get through a doctoral program! We are gods and goddesses.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 26, 2011 10:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

But along those same lines,

Pittsburgh is a better journalism school because there are also pro teams to write about and work for while still having the high level (relatively) college sport teams.

by VVeRPennState on Apr 27, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I agree

But you can’t tell me that PSU, OSU and Texas alumni don’t have better opportunities than the others, just like Harvard, Stanford and Yale have better opportunities than us.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

But...

Alabama is already a glorified junior college…

(I kid. Academically, it’s respectable, but it’s less than a junior college for its athletes)

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really great breakdown.

I think the problem is that the test is outcome determinative. The NCAA is pretty fearful of giving the death penalty any more. Due to that, they don’t seem to like “lack of institutional control.”

In my opinion, the analysis looks like this:
If we hand out a lack of institutional control, will the University keep doing whatever they want?

If yes, “oh crap we don’t want people to realize we are afraid to ever give the death penalty again, find an excuse not to hand up this particular violation.”

If no, “ok, we are probably safe to give them this violation.”

I don’t think they are confident OSU will stop, and they don’t want anyone calling their bluff. Yeah, it’s conjecture. What of it?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 25, 2011 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

You're probably right.

And MainLion is absolutely right that there’s way too much money at stake to enforce a death penalty. But there’s literally no reason not to enforce “lack of institutional control,” particularly when that penalty has had the desired effect of hitting teams like USC hard without destroying their program.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 25, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah damnit

I was hoping for the utter destruction of that U$C athletic program…

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Apr 26, 2011 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

Here, watch, with not even a sentence I can explain for Mister Collyer why the NCAA is essentially “afraid” to do the right thing.

$

Boom. Did you see it? You might have missed it.

Argh. I need to go burn some money or something.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 25, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, this absolutely explains the new tattoo Pryor got. It simply says, “1 Timothy 6:10”

He’s awful astute, that kid.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 25, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

what a tool

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 25, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, but tell me why'd they come down that hard on USC and not OSU.

Both college football “royalty,” so to speak.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because USC's hubris was greater than OSU's (shockingly).

The main difference between that and this is that USC’s athletic director, Mike Garrett, was defiant throughout the process and the NCAA thought USC’s compliance department did a poor job at investigating. Tressel’s offenses (lying to the NCAA, awareness of player ineligibility, contradiction via obvious evidence) were present in USC’s case, and I think USC’s troubles with their basketball and tennis programs hurt them too.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I've taken from it so far

USC gave off a very defiant air, while OSU has seemed to comply, even if it’s been grudgingly. That perception has helped thus far I believe.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think USC's compliance...

department consisted of about 2 people as well. OSU at least looks like they take these matters seriously. USC did not.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

They certainly did

to the NCAA’s investigators

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Their stop sign was rusting in the corner.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Stop sign

is the only reason I can’t rec this. If it could be changed to a Yield sign, or possibly Blind Child Area

"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler

by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

then I might finish a sentence before hitting post

"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler

by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

but at least they seem repentant afterwards.

what’s that? They said that it was worth it to win the national championship? Oh, well never mind.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Simple, Slippery Pete has or had more juice than the Vest

Smith and Gee have successfully thrown Jimmy under the bus. Anyone seen Mike Garrett lately?

I'm your late night evening prostitute

by Frank O'Brien on Apr 26, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that is the reason.

Ohio State obviously has plenty of money to lose, so does the Big 10, but the NCAA doesn’t. It is more about politics than money.

by VVeRPennState on Apr 26, 2011 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is money to lose, but not the NCAA's.

To paraphrase Andy Staples on twitter yesterday, the NCAA doesn’t want to punish Purdue and Northwestern for Ohio State’s sins. Regardless of one’s opinion on whether the “lack of institutional control” tag is deserved, that would probably get Ohio State a TV ban. The NCAA doesn’t particularly care if Ohio State loses money via punishment, but the other teams it plays lose money from a TV ban, and the NCAA won’t indirectly punish them if they can avoid it.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's some terrible reasoning if that's the case.

A TV ban would be in effect for something like a year. It’s not that damaging. Plus, we’re not talking about a minor conference here. The Big Ten has (now) at least 3 other programs with the historic tradition that Ohio State has.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

That can't be their real reasoning.

That’s just too much weak sauce, even for them.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 26, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s Andy Staples’ reasoning. I don’t know if it’s the NCAA’s.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

So...

with a TV ban, I can’t watch OSU-PSU, OSU-Michigan, etc??? How is that a good thing?

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

My hatred for OSU

would rise about a bazilliongatrillionmillion if that ever happened.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

And times that by eleventybillion

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

The idea is that it punishes OSU far more than the rest of the conference.

So you lose one game a year if you can’t find a way around the ban, which you probably can, while OSU fans lose twelve games a year. I would like to reiterate that a TV ban isn’t going to happen. That was a punishment the NCAA considered for USC and chose not to use, and OSU will not be punished more than USC.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know...

but a TV ban makes little or no sense. In the 80’s when a team like SMU was rarely on anything but local TV it made sense.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would love to see a TV ban, but for the games to still be televised.

Just use the blur effect to blur out everything and anything OSU related on the screen.

Or even better, superimpose pictures of something embarrassing over all the players.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Today on ESPN

there was a graphic about Tressel that included 9-1 Versus Michigan

Seems to be all that matters

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 25, 2011 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

which may be the reason why the vest keeps his job.

"They say in Happy Valley that if God wasn’t a Penn State fan, why is the sky blue and white?" Fortt said. "Who am I to argue with God?"

by amandakt on Apr 25, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty certain he's going to lose his job.

Whether that happens now or happens 9 months from now is a different question. Jim Tressel probably can’t survive these substantiated allegations, but he definitely can’t survive a show-cause penalty.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 25, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

8-1 after the vacation.

Which means that Rich Rodriguez broke Michigan’s losing streak against OSU. Huzzah!

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love when I know a post is going to be awesome before I read it.

Well done!

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 25, 2011 10:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Front paged? Very cool, guys.

Thanks for the love. Hope you all enjoy reading as much I as enjoyed writing.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 25, 2011 10:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I have loved Emo

For probably over 25 years. Or at least his HBO special from the 80s. Is he still around?

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 26, 2011 11:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'd love to see OSU get hit with severe penalties

after watching them get away with so much for the past decade. But, the fact of the matter is there’s not enough here to support a Lack of Institutional Control charge—at least not yet. All that’s on the table for consideration is Tressel’s cover-up of the wrongdoing of 5 players and playing them while knowing they were ineligible. There’s no evidence (at least not in the NCAA’s eyes) that this behavior is part of a pattern of non-compliance. There’s no evidence (again, at least not in the NCAA’s eyes) that the administration knew Tressel was a loose cannon, but they still gave him a long leash to keep doing his thing. Maybe more evidence will come out that will give the NCAA no choice but to step up the penalties, but right now, I think they will be pretty tame.

I think the wild card will be Ted Sarniak. That whole situation has always reeked of impropriety, and the Tressel e-mails took it to another level. I’m glad to see that the NCAA is finally going to take a closer look at this guy. If the NCAA proves that Sarniak was assisting (or maybe even directing) Tressel in violating NCAA rules, even after the OSU compliance department had vetted him, that would be serious trouble on an institutional level.

by newenglandnittanylion on Apr 26, 2011 1:07 AM EDT reply actions  

evidence the administration knew Tressel was a loose cannon:

after all of this has come out, he still has a job as their head coach. Also, this isn’t the first time anything like this has happened with Tressel involved (YSU, Maurice Clarrett, Troy Smith, etc).

How is OSU going to show it is complying with a head coach known to break the rules and hide the evidence?

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember Tressel being implicated in any of the earlier incidents.

Sure, a lot of us believed Tressel wasn’t as clean as his image, but I don’t think there was much hard evidence to support that.

by VVeRPennState on Apr 26, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

it isn't like Pete Carroll personally got Reggie Bush's family that house, either.

It is his job to know about an monitor certain situations (especially ones involving high level players). And at YSU, didn’t Tressel hook up that QB with the booster? Turning a blind eye is still frowned upon by the NCAA.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pete Carroll left to take a "better job" and wasn't fired because of the violations.

And I generally agree with you regarding the head coaches job, hence my belief that Tressel was dirty. But both Tressel and the administration could in the past simply explain away Maurice Clarrett and players of his ilk as bad seeds. There was no hard evidence that Tressel did anything to encourage, promote, or turn his back to this kind of behavior.

by VVeRPennState on Apr 26, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pete Carroll wasn’t sanctioned by the NCAA.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't mean to imply he was.

I meant he was part of the institution that lacked control. Now maybe OSU is being more compliant than USC now that they’ve been caught, but it isn’t like they had no prior reason to suspect that Tressel might bend the rules in order to obtain a competitive advantage.

And I’m not even talking about in the past. I mean that as of right now they are employing a coach who willfully lied to the NCAA, knowingly played ineligible players, and committed other related violations (and even lobbied for those players to be eligible in the bowl game after they got caught! No more “player safety” concerns at this point, it was all “cover my tracks”). Before Tat-gate it was just speculation and suspicion, but now it is proven, and yet they still retain his services as head coach of their football program.

That is what screams “lack of institutional control” to me (or even worse, they have institutional control, just don’t care about certain rules and regulations and willfully violate them)

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

My take on the NCAA charges

The NCAA is giving OSU the opportunity use Tressel as the scapegoat. The NCAA doesn’t forget Youngstown, trust me. They are dangling a carrot right now. OSU has until August 12 to remove Tressel from coaching. If they don’t, I think the lack of institutional control issue may surface. This is just a preliminary assessment and they are asking for official answers from both OSU and Tressel. They have basically stated that the case against the players is over, the punishment against them is complete. They are not blaming the players for playing when they shouldn’t last year, only for what they did wrong, which is the correct approach. Tressel lied to the school and the NCAA. Dez Bryant got a year suspension for lying about a secondary violation. The NCAA is giving OSU the chance to do something about the situation. The school has reported that the entire situation exists because Tressel didn’t do his job. Now they have a job to do and they don’t seem to be doing it.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 6:44 AM EDT reply actions  

nice.

The sad part is, I’m usually rather proud of my mathematical ability (luckily I never heard about touchpoints until my girlfriend was using them and it completely baffled me), but sometimes the brain likes to take a vacation.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tried helping my grandson the other day, 5th grade math

I asked what the hell are you doing? then showed him my way. He now does the work the way i showed him. Hope he doesn’t get bad grades because of it.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 27, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

gotta rec

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 27, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

OSU is going to come out of this fine...

Tressel will be fired and Urban Meyer will be hired and OSU will be a better football team for it (not accounting for smarminess, players with questionable backgrounds, etc., which they will continue to have in boatloads).

Considering OSU’s AD was just head of the NCAA Men’s BBall tourney selection committee, I’m not surprised the lack of institutional control charge was not brought.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 7:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Fantastic

Very well done, sir.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.

by skarocksoi on Apr 26, 2011 7:41 AM EDT reply actions  

And again

this is why you’re the best Adam.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.

by skarocksoi on Apr 26, 2011 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Goes back before Clarrett

Remember Andy Katzenmoyer and the SI cover? That was a huge signal flare for the O$U program that was ignored. Then the Clarrett, Troy Smith, and others held up the tradition. I seem to remember an O$U player attempting to transfer to the University of MD a year or two ago and U of M wouldn’t even accept most of his credits. Shameful.

by LB31Monster on Apr 26, 2011 8:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Don’t forget A.J. Hawk who reported having something like $5000 cash stolen from his dorm room. Show me a poor college kid with no job that has $5000 cash laying around.

by BSD on Apr 26, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sticking up for tOSU but...

A.J. Hawk isn’t your typical poor college kid. He is on a full scholarship and his dad I’m assuming has a decent amount of money considering who he was.

I do agree though that it would be weird for him to just have that money laying around in his dorm.

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Derp.

Okay. AJ’s father is Keith Hawk, a VP of sales for LexisNexis. I don’t know anything else.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh my fault

I thought he was the son of the road warrior

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on Apr 26, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

even if his father is terry pegula

i cant imagine anyone with $5000 in CASH laying around his dorm room. You cant take $5K out of an ATM. So that would presuppose his dad handed him $5K in cash and said “here, enjoy.”

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Untrue.

You can take $5k out of an ATM. If there are rules otherwise they are set by your bank. You would have to be very particular about the bank you chose, and probably be required to keep a high deposit average, but there is no blanket rule that you can’t take $5k out at one time.

Now, I’m guessing AJ Hawk as a student couldn’t take $5k out of an ATM, but that’s the same reasoning as to why it’s suspicious that he had it at all.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

I worked in banking for awhile and never heard of any bank allowing $5K per day limit on an ATM card. Most allow $500-750 per day per account. I think the largest I ever heard of was $1K and that’s if you use the cash advance option rather than a straight withdrawal.

Regardless, lets just say there’s a very low probability that he could get $5K out of an ATM.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree.

Regardless of the bank rules, most ATMs top off at $750 or so.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

in actuality

the nuances of banking are unimportant. I just dont know anyone* with $5K in straight cash just laying around. That was true when i was a starving undergrad and its true now as an “established” adult.

*This statement does not include the elderly, whom have a sincere distrust for organized banking.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I did once

But I had a major drug deal going down that night.

/Sarcasm’d

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I feel like most people keep a healthy cash reserve in that range in their home.

They just don’t tell anyone about it because that’s stupid. Someone claiming he doesn’t even know of anyone doing it must have even more.

I’m thinking swiggy has about 50k in a shoebox.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

What's the most cash you've ever seen in person?

I mean, out in the loose, not at the Bureau of Printing & Engraving?

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

In a public place?

I once witnessed the attempted cash purchase of a motor vehicle. I think it was ~30k. The dealer was very nervous, and asking them to come back with a check.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha, nice

What about in a private place? Ever seen a strip club close out their registers?

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't.

But I’m thinking you have a story coming?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nein

Inadvertent mislead. I was just curious and thinking that I likely have never even seen $5000 in cash anywhere out in the loose. I mean, I’ve seen some material goods worth far more than that, both legal and illegal, but straight cash, homey? Not sure what the most I’ve seen is, but it’s not a lot.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

The day my grandfather died, he had $3000 cash in his wallet. He always carried a ton of cash on him.

by BSD on Apr 26, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap!

What’s the most you ever saw him spend of it at one time?

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I used cash to buy an engagement ring

Just don’t tell the state of California.

I'm your late night evening prostitute

by Frank O'Brien on Apr 26, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not?

Haven’t you popped the question to the state of California yet?

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've seen a couple k

It really isn’t as impressive as you would think at first. Unless it would be in $1s, then you’d have quite the stack.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I had a large amount..

of cash on me for about 45 minutes when I purchased my wife’s engagement ring. It was noon on a sunny day and I thought I was going to get robbed.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on Apr 26, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Forgot about that!

Same except I was on the T during part of it.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

Now it was a second rate strip club… but we did bring in 30K in house totals on friday nights…

Ive had a weird assortment of jobs…

JoePa – coaching PSU 140 Characters at a time

by jaytay13 on Apr 27, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha! I knew

there would be someone on BSD who had. And that there’s the thing about strip clubs: they can basically print money, as even ‘second rate’ ones just roll in the cash.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing you might be good at it

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

th... thanks?

Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.

by WorldBFat on Apr 28, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

A buddy of mine walked back to the hotel....

…from Joe Louis Arena in Detroit with $15,000 cash on him from extra Stanley Cup tickets they had sold for game 7 two years ago. Now THAT’S insane!

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Straight gangsta.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Daaaammnn

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, not at all!

I have a group of buddies who are big time into hockey. They have some connections and were able to get 100 tickets to games 5 and 7 in Detroit two years ago. I could’ve gone to game 7, but I had to work the next morning (my other job) and didn’t want to drive back after the game. (I also had Super Bowl tickets for the Steelers in Detroit AND had a place to stay, but didn’t go because my oldest daughter and my son both wanted to go with me and I couldn’t disappoint one so I sold them….I’m probably the only guy alive who missed out on both the Super Bowl and game 7 of the Stanley Cup.) So they sold a lot of tickets at the game and made almost $4000 each. Last year they had a luxury box lined up in Chicago before the playoffs started in anticipation of a Pens/Blackhawks final (which never happened). One of them this year got season tickets to the Caps in order to be able to get playoff tickets there. And to get the Caps tickets he had to buy some Wizard season tickets too!!

These guys are hardcore, but I’m glad because I benefit from it. I’ve been to tons of playoff games, including 2 so far this year and I’m going to game 7 tomorrow. If they advance I’ll get to go to more.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, so they look like this then?

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vegas Club

Had 5k in my posession (pooling of group’s money for bill). I’m glad I was drunk or I would have been very nervous.

by state08 on Apr 26, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

My first EVER deposit into an ATM....

…was $4000 cash!

I had just sold an old truck (53 Chevy) and my credit union through work completely ATM based. I was very nervous, but it went through.

My second job sometimes causes me to have large sums of cash when idiots pay in cash. By large I mean maybe a couple thousand. It makes me nervous because I bring it to work with me and then deposit it in the bank on my way home (these other job accounts are with a real bank, not my credit union).

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Woe!

Crazy to think the thug actually got up & was able to flee, – mouth shot or not!

Some people wear bear claws, sharks teeth and such … if these ‘tokens’ were gold, you’d think he’d display the wares somewhere!

" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009

by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 26, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't exactly cash...

but I did get to carry 35,000 laundry tickets through Johnston and Findlay commons when I was in school. It hit me as I was walking along that I effectively had enough in my hands to by a new BMW M3.

"I’ll drink through the weirdness." - Illegal Formation

by leeharvey418 on Apr 26, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was in Prague gambling, so I had whatever their currency is.

I was drunk. I won a ton of money. I found out later that I had won enough to buy a $20,000 watch, but lost all but maybe $1,000 of it.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you won 20k?

or 3k?

/pragueblackmarketed

by hbeach08 on Apr 26, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I won $20k

But didn’t know it (I was that drunk).

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

You see...

This day started with me cleaning bird crap off a stranger’s Bugatti. That stranger owned a casino, and I saw him later that night, sitting by his Bugatti, parked in the casino’s entrance. Well, he took me inside and gave me a bottle of liquor and like $100 in chips. I broke out $500 of my own, and went to town (in alcohol and gambling).

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like your (Eastern Euro) style

I too have had some rather massive casino experiences

by hbeach08 on Apr 26, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are the BSD gambling expert,

I swear! I don’t have the guts to gamble more than $50.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 26, 2011 11:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's a really stupid thing to do.

But it’s fun.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 27, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I won 2,500 kroons in Estonia

236 US dollars. Which is more than the average Estonian made in the month at that time.

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

kroons

sounds fake.

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 27, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 27, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still have some!

I also have in a bag in a drawer somewhere:
Francs
Finmarks
Loony’s (how to they pluralize them?)
Bolivars
Deustche marks
Pound Notes
maybe a peso or two

I was in Europe in 2000, just pre-euro

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jack, is that you??

Glad to see you back, TME.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 29, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have some Iraqi money

It’s got a pic of Saddam on it. I forget what it’s called.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 29, 2011 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

its called the dinar....

and its about to be revalued at $.03/dinar

according to the UN..

JoePa – coaching PSU 140 Characters at a time

by jaytay13 on May 1, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all....

plus one from me

JoePa – coaching PSU 140 Characters at a time

by jaytay13 on May 1, 2011 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man, I wanna go to Estonia!

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I used to manage a 3 mill a year music/movie store

on a normal day, we’d deposit 2-4. Around Christmas, it would average 20-30. I’ve never been so terrified of getting mugged dropping off a deposit, especially when other stores/restaurants in the mall had been held up…

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Apr 28, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know I have a shoebox

anyhoo, by just laying around I mean just laying around. I assume people keep cash in a house safe or fireproof box for emergencies. But just laying around to light cigars with daffy duck-style, I have never seen that.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Another denial swiggy?

Now we know you light cigars with 1k dollar bills in the privacy of your own home.

Keep digging.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

you wanna know what president is on the $1K bill?

All of them. they are having a party. Jimmy Carter is passed out on the couch.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

It must really be

a buzz kill when you light the party on fire. Do you cackle like an evil genious?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

it doesnt bother me

i just need to make sure i light it no where near my shoebox.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Does someone

carry Jimmy Carter out when the fire starts? Or do they just save themselves?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not quite sure why, but I'm rolling on the floor laughing at this one

Daffy Duck for the mothaphuquing win!

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

The visual really got me. I can also see AJ Hawk reaching in a duffel when he has a visitor, and using a large bill to light his RA prohibited candles.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know, right?

I totally wanna party at swiggy’s crib now.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those bankers are

always just throwing money around.

Ah, swiggy, the over the top partying banker.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Im a lawyer now

I’m still over the top, though.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

An

over the top partying banking lawyer? Just wow.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't care what you are

Just that you conjured up ‘daffy-duck style’ in the blink of an eye.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can only hope that I someday will be that rich

Whereas I can light fine Cubans with $50s and wipe with $100s

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 26, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

i meant daffy duck

in Daffy Duck’s Quackbusters to be exact

and dont call me shirley

(Scrooge works too)

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha, this reminds me of an amusing story from my employment history

I used to work for a credit union in HS as part of a coop program. They opened CU branches in local HS and trained us as tellers. During the summers though, we could work in the major branches of the credit union. My FIRST day working in a major branch I got assigned to a branch not too far away from the Philly airport. Everything was going great, then, and this isn’t an exaggeration, 10 minutes before we were scheduled to close a dude walks in, comes up to me, and wants to deposit $10,000 in CASH. I was 17 at the time and had never seen a thousand dollars in cash let alone 10K, and was so nervous around that much money I was shaking (and of course I had to count every bill by hand).

by dawsonPSU10 on Apr 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

post 9/2008 banks are so shy that I suppose it is very limited now. I believe most of them that go so high these days require in excess of 100k balance. In a checking account. You have to be pretty ready to spend to keep 100k in a checking account instead of invested somewhere.

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would that make him

the culturally offensive money hungry eyetalian agent Money Cashilini?

'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno

by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 26, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha

Well played sir. If my dad was the Million Dollar Man, I would hope to have more than $5000 lying around.

by STU Boy on Apr 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

you do know that you can withdraw money from a bank, not using the ATM?

and I don’t think they have any restrictions. I know I pulled $2k in cash out the other day to transfer to another account without having to wait for a check to clear.

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

right

but Hawk could have walked into the bank, withdrew $5k in cash for personal use (heck, maybe he wanted to avoid those obnoxious ATM fees and figured he could safeguard the money well enough).

It is a shady situation, sure, but it isn’t shady based on $5k being larger than the typical ATM withdrawal limit, since there are very easy ways to circumvent that limit (ie using a human teller, instead of a machine)

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

My absolute pleasure to green that

as my kids all start humming the “my little pony” theme music any time that AJ Hawk’s name is mentioned during a Packers game.

by IndianaLion on Apr 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Based on 10 minutes of research, I think you’re talking about Lamaar Thomas, of whom there were rumors he would transfer to Maryland. I couldn’t find anything about his Ohio State credits not being accepted, and I suspect that part is inaccurate. He eventually transferred to New Mexico.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if that's the guy or not.

It was a running back, I’m almost certain. That name doesn’t sound like the guy, but I’m not sure. I’ll have to research it.

by J Breezy on Apr 26, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the NCAA is waiting for the interviews with the administration before laying the boom with LOIC.

They can still add that charge and have plenty of time to do so.

"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"

by psuphiman80 on Apr 26, 2011 8:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I think it's possible.

I’m curious if the NCAA has added anything after the initial charge, but I didn’t do any research.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Emmert is in charge of the NCAA.

He brings a “different” value system. As chancellor at LSU he fired Gerry DiNardo (an honorable man) and personally took control of the coaching search — a search that led him to Nick Saban.

Emmert embraces the notion that college athletics is big business and ought to get even bigger. No big program is going to be punished to the point of serious damage so long as Emmert has his way.

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Apr 26, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

You know, and I know and......

they know and everybody knows that they will sacrifice anyone so that they will not have any of the serious charges placed on them. tO$U does not want to vacate wins, give back bowl money and lose scholarships, etc. They will use Jimmy as the scapegoat, protecting their collective asses. Look, I know for a fact that the meeting that sealed the deal with TP was when he brought Sarniak to a meeting with Joe…thereafter, PSU dropped its interest…it is not hindsight, it’s the fact that PSU has never “played ball” with any agent, boosters or, I mean mentors. Oh well, the situation is going to get more interesting as tO$U has till August 15th to prepare its lying defense.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.

by DerryPharmer on Apr 26, 2011 9:44 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

it's been a while since my last post, but

Derry, keep up the great insider information. I grew up in Westmoreland County (Greensburg) and – through friends of friends – knew that TP was bad news long before heading to Columbus.

by rju103 on Apr 26, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean...

Those three days will totally absolve jaO$U of all wrongdoing! Great post!

"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."

-J.V.Pa.

by psume06 on Apr 26, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is the website with Nitt Picks, so it's appropriate ;-)

In all seriousness, if I say something like “well thank you Nostradamus with your prophetic hindsight” it won’t go over well. There’s no point in engaging bluster beyond nitpicking.

Ann Arbor is a trollop.

by Semicorrect on Apr 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's no Nostradamus

but so far Derry has been pretty spot on with his inside info

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

well, I don't recall any big announcement (re: retirement) from Joe after the bowl game

but other than that, Derry seems to be right on all counts (that I’ve read from him)

by The JuggerNitt on Apr 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

we also have sarcastradamus and his famous predictions

But Derry drinks Dos XX and chats with world leaders and we trust him to when he shares his little bits of knowedge with us

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on Apr 26, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, I will be presenting

“The most interesting man in the world” award to one of my students on May 7 (we have gag awards for all of them). I thank BSD for the honor and will be thinking of Derry that night.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on Apr 26, 2011 11:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Keep in mind

the NCAA tends to go easier on a school who cuts ties with the offender. This tends to solidify the sentence from the post that says “The institution fails to make clear, by its words and its actions, that those personnel who willfully violate NCAA rules, or who are grossly negligent in applying those rules, will be disciplined and made subject to discharge.”

The example offered up yesterday on either ESPN or MadDog Radio (i dunno which one I was listening to) was a women’s coach from like Alcorn State. The school decided to keep her on, and so they received a one year ban from postseason play and scholarships.

This leads me to believe the Vests days are numbered. I think if he keeps his job, the penalties will be harsher than if he “resigns”

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

I actually just listened to Staples interview on the Scott Van Pelt Show

where he used the exact comparison, so I’m guessing it’s that.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

One thing I don't know.....

for sure is whether Scrap still texts TP every week….I hope not. After 31/2 years, it still doesn’t look right whether he thinks TP is a good kid or not.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.

by DerryPharmer on Apr 26, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions  

People always complain about the NCAA

They just require patience. Eventually, they will get you. It just doesn’t happen as quick as you’d hope. Forefit your season and fire your coach is not a BS penalty. If they choose not to fire Tressel, they’ll get smoked the next time somebody so much as mentions the word tattoo.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on Apr 26, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Tattoo!

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Truth...they are armed, and dangerous

…and more than ready to smoke you!

" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009

by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

to reply to myself

I found the article here. There are no references to an ultimatum given by the NCAA, which may have been conjecture by the interviewee on the radio, but oddly the violations look like a hybrid of Michigan and OSU. She was cited for allowing known ineligible players travel (not even play)with the team, providing false or misleading statements, and exceeding practice limits.

by swiggy04 on Apr 26, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks again, Adam

Real good stuff. I dug the balance of research/links and opinion, and all permeated by calm reasoning; an argument put forth well is just a lot of fun to read. And I know it doesn’t often come real easily, so thanks again for the effort.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 26, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Much appreciated, jtot.

I tend not to make very emotional arguments. All it does it raise the volume. It’s an interesting topic. I’m just glad we haven’t been infested by screaming trolls.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm disappointed with have not been infested by screaming trolls

Aziraphale is witty and reasonable. I miss guys like Block O Nation.

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

A well-reasoned and supported internet post.

I’m in shock.

Not because it’s you, Adam. Just because I never expect quality work on the internet.

by CvilleLion on Apr 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I hate when that happens :)

The beauty of the internet is that it allows people the opportunity to speak their minds. The problem with the internet is that you normally have to claw through 90% garbage in order to find the really interesting stuff.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on Apr 26, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

TANGENT! Nebraskans still bitter!

I did a presentation in Nebraska today. Being the fun, social person that I am I let a group of people know they are welcome to my tailgate if they come to the game in November.

A little old lady (I work in the real estate industry, they outnumber everyone) huffed a little and said “do you remember that out of bounds catch? Do you? You don’t do that to the Huskers”! Wow. That little lady is hanging on to a lot of hate folks.

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Perhaps

but I didn’t feel like being fired today.

Also, night #2 in Nebraska and it is still boring

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 26, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen any corn?

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 27, 2011 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

If that is the only thing I have brought to BSD

during my time commenting here, I would be ok with that.

It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

by jman07 on Apr 27, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You certainly put it on my bucket list!

And I’m with you. If I get hit by a bus on my way home, I will die happy I coined the phrase BSDiva.

It’s the smallest contributions that mean the most.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I was watching the movie Gettysburg for the seventeenth time the other day, and General Kemper was really fond of “some of this here fine Pennsylvania whiskey.” They’re not afraid to drink anything down there.

"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs

by ReadingRambler on Apr 28, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I saw nothing

and am happy to be home in NEPA

My coach is better than your coach

by letsgopsu on Apr 27, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

crap, I knew going out of the country and being away from the internet would mean something would happen

and a 300+ comment thread certainly indicates this (haven’t read through it yet, but that’s what lunch is for, right?)

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Apr 28, 2011 7:49 AM EDT reply actions  

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