Time To Throw Out The Stars
In the days and now weeks since the Blue-White game, we've been hammered with pieces from across the Penn State sphere speculating on how the quarterback situation might resolve itself. Any fans or media types with access to a computer have been tripping over themselves to make predictions and take their shot at screaming into the echo chamber.
Some will tell you there's no way former walk-on Matthew McGloin will be able to overcome the "highly recruited" trio of Kevin Newsome, Robert Bolden and Paul Jones to earn the job this time. Others will tell you McGloin will grab the spot because Jay Paterno and the coaching staff hopelessly wrecked said "highly recruited" trio.
Here are the facts. Joe Paterno has said he's "99% sure" the starter will be either McGloin or Bolden. Quarterbacks coach Jay Paterno, however, sang the praises of Newsome after the spring game. Both seem to believe Jones is still on the outside looking in.
Those are the only hints we've been given. That doesn't stop recruiting types from using star rankings and offer sheets over two years old as crutches for speculation, though, and so we hear about how talented the "highly recruited" trio is and how limited McGloin's ceiling is because he's a former walk-on.
That's all nonsense. Recruiting rankings are irrelevant at this point. So are physical tools. There's a mental side of the game that all three of the "highly recruited" quarterbacks have failed to grasp so far, and until one or more of them figure it out, bets on how this race will end are off.
Give Rob Bolden all the credit in the world. He thinks he deserves the starters job and he's competed hard for it over the course of the last year. You can see how good he might become one day simply by watching him carry himself of the football field. The inescapable truth about him, though, is that between his transfer drama in January and his "will-he-or-won't he" act during spring practice, he's been a me-first kind of football player lately. Of course, that's not always a bad thing, and as he matures, it could serve him well. However, right now that attitude is a distraction and it's not helping.
His star ranking and "highly recruited" status didn't come with his maturity level as a measurable. It was all about poise and physical tools. The evaluations may well be accurate in that department, but they don't tell the whole story. To be a true impact player early in your college career, you need the physical tools and the maturity level to play the position. It can't be one or the other. To this point, Bolden has only shown the former but also the seeming unwillingness to take "no" for and answer. That's why we're in this position today.
So, here's a crazy notion: Maybe Bolden isn't a true "five-star" quarterback. Maybe the recruiting services missed, or maybe they were just doing their jobs and ranking measureables while everyone else got caught up in believing his stars are the be-all, end-all in terms of where he should be in this race. As with most kids his age, Bolden still has some growing up to do. Maybe it's time we stopped ripping the staff for not coaching him properly or the man himself for the way he's acting and remember he's still a teenager. Maybe he just needs the time Michael Robinson, Anthony Morelli and Daryll Clark all got to grow before they started and led successful Penn State teams.
Will-be junior Kevin Newsome has also struggled with maturity issues. He didn't travel with the team to the Outback Bowl as he mulled over a possible transfer, and according to Joe Paterno, he's been "last player on, first player off" at practice.
Whether Joe was speaking generally about Newsome's career at Penn State or spring practice specifically, we don't know. To be fair, Jay Paterno was very pleased with Newsome in the spring, so maybe Newsome had a breakthrough, but still hasn't emerged from the head man's doghouse yet. We don't know.
Regardless, again, recruiting stars don't take immeasureables like work ethic and attitude into account. They can only take you so far, and until Newsome allows his maturity level to catch up with his skill, he's probably topped out as a camp arm.
Finally, there's Paul Jones. He's the big unknown because no one has really seen him play since the 2010 Blue-White game. He, too, is highly touted, but has also had some trouble adjusting. Why? Maybe he simply wasn't prepared for college.
Jones' alma mater Sto-Rox suspended 15 football players in the fall because they were unable to maintain a C in their core classes. That's a third of the football team unable to hold a passing grade at the high school level, let alone the college level. It's no wonder Jones has struggled academically and has had less time to devote to achieving his potential as a football player.
He's simply had more important things to take care of.
Say it with me now, star rankings don't take things like academics into account. They're based purely on measureables. Rivals and Scout had no way of knowing Jones' wasn't prepared for college coming out of high school for whatever reason. All they know is what's in the football scouting report. That's how they make their evaluations, and that's how you get "Five-star quarterback Paul Jones."
So, the next time someone tells you they know how the quarterback situation will play out or worse yet, how they think it should play out, beware. There are so many variables to this race that go beyond what we can see on the football field and trying to pretend we understand them is a fool's errand.
For that reason, don't expect "OMG quarterback, quarterback, quarterback" all offseason here at BSD. We're bored of it already and though it might do our traffic some favors to beat the topic to death, we'd probably fall asleep trying to make it happen.
It will be a long time before the staff has to make a decision on who will start at quarterback. Guys could transfer. Guys could mature over the summer. Any number of things could happen. No reason to play the speculation game now. Best just to let the summer happen and not get caught up on things like recruiting profiles that were never very important in the first place.
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If Sto-Rox is doing such a crappy job of educating its students
It’s probably a good thing Jones got on campus early to start fixing things, so he could take those Math 4 and English 4 classes that don’t count towards graduation before hitting the English 15 and Math 110/140s. Penn State admits lots of bright kids who are achievers with potential who were completely failed by their high schools, which is why they have FTCAP and the catch up courses.
Athletes also have a pretty good tutoring system set up for them, don't they?
I know classes can be tough— it’s the last week of the semester and I hate everything— but If they want help, it isn’t hard to get.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
Indeed. In fact, I think Wally Richardson used to be the head of that department.
He’s at Georgia now, if I remember correctly.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
I studied with some of my buddies on the football and wrestling teams, and we could get a tutor for even high level engineering courses on pretty short notice.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Actually, I take that back.
It was the 100-200 level engineering classes we got tutors for, and we actually went to office hours for the 3-400s.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I'm pretty sure that every university has to have a system in place
for monitoring and helping athletes with their studies. I have to report on the progress of student athletes 3 times a semester.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
Fugi
probably the best write-up that you’ve put together. I don’t mean that negatively, just this is very well done. Good work.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
Great party this weekend at Black's Woods
Poppapaluza celebration. Good friend of mine passed away a couple weeks ago so they are holding a huge party for his memory, as he would have liked, and there is going to be bands Friday and Saturday at the Woods. There is going to be a food caterer there but the music is free.
My grammer skills need improved.
Sorry to hear about your friend passing
Good food and good music, not sure of a better way to celebrate one’s life than that.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
Sorry to hear about your loss
Are you talking about Black’s Woods outside of Mercersburg? If so, I used to party all the time there in my younger days. That really brings back some good memories.
by Offside Clyde on Apr 27, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, great place.
pretty sure Hexbelt and Jerry Joseph will be there and I know a few others. Not sure if I’m going to play or not. There will be open times between bands for solo acts and i am friends with most of the musician folks. Probably not going Friday night, which will be wild, but we are heading over for Saturday afternoon.
My grammer skills need improved.
Nice
Hexbelt and Jerry Joseph are always a good time. Usually when either of those two play it turns into a huge party. But both of them at the same time will be insane. I remember meeting the guys from Hexbelt on my birthday and Jerry himself when he played at friend’s farmhouse near Black’s Woods. All were awesome and told some great stories.
I would love to go check it out. But, I’m pretty sure the wifey won’t let me revert to the old me…even for a few hours.
by Offside Clyde on Apr 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
OOOH
I got an idea! Let’s start Ed Ruth at quarterback! Please!
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
I liked your earlier suggestion of Jay.
Watching RUTS’ head explode would really be something to see.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No reason to play the speculation game now.
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. This is the internet. If we don’t wildly and innapropriately speculate, then what is the point?
I heard that Kevin Newsome beat up Paul Jones and Rob Bolden kicks puppies. Also, McGloin’s max bench press is 115.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
While RoBo was kicking puppies
Shane McGregor was saving babies from a burning hospital and curling Greyhound buses.
At the same time.
He’s your starter, folks. Plain and simple.
by psuwxman on Apr 27, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He was also raising elk, getting it on with his hot Scottish wife (Not before marriage, my friends, not before marriage) who talks solely in incomprehensible Scottish slang, and filming a new movie – Ace’s High or some crap like that – with Tom Berenger.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I heard
They weren’t originally going to have a burning hospital in the movie, but after the production crew watched his display of manliness (and winding up with better than 20/20 vision afterwards), they couldn’t leave it on the cutting room floor.
by psuwxman on Apr 27, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Newsome...
Will-be junior Kevin Newsome has also struggled with maturity issues. He didn’t travel with the team to the Outback Bowl as he mulled over a possible transfer, and according to Joe Paterno, he’s been “last player on, first player off” at practice.
They are student-athletes; maybe he had studying to do.
by LowcountryLion on Apr 27, 2011 10:56 AM EDT reply actions
Maybe
But I doubt Joe would throw the “last on, first off” stuff out there if they couldn’t get him out of the library.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Swing and a miss!
I was just trying to be funny. I should definitely leave that up to professionals like Gallagher, Larry the Cable Guy, and Paula Poundstone.
by LowcountryLion on Apr 27, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
All three of those guys are great.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Apr 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Nice...
…thinking Gallagher is a man.
by LowcountryLion on Apr 27, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You receive a rec for clever twisting of my clever joke.
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Okay, Billy Crystal. How about this one...
Paula Poundstone is SO ugly…
How ugly is she?
Paula Poundstone is SO ugly, Wait…Wait…Don’t Tell Me.
by LowcountryLion on Apr 27, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
"I've Got Warrants!!!"

The sea was angry that day my friends
by Bob Sacamano on Apr 27, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stanley Pringle
always first off in the library.
Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries
by Ben Jones on Apr 27, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
I'm not sure it's fair to label Bolden "a me-first kind of football player"
and not do the same with McGloin.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
McGloin is a whole other can of worms.
I’m not trying to give him an endorsement here by any means. Just pointing out the flawed logic in the disproportionate weight recruiting rankings continue to hold in the dialogue on the position battle.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
But by completely omitting him from your write-up
Aren’t you in a way overlooking his flaws, therefore endorsing him?
by misdreavus79 on Apr 27, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It's an apples and oranges kind of thing.
He wasn’t highly regarded, so it’s implied that people don’t think he’s very good. No reason to go into it further, you know?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No
People don’t think he’s very good because of what he did against Ohio State, Michigan State, and Florida.
Bolden was no better.
The perceived difference is pedigree, not performance.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That's really what this debate boils down to.
Neither was good enough for us to be able to say one was clearly better. When both are miserable in their own way, it’s a matter of personal preference for which bad option gives you a better chance to win.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Pat Devlin
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Wally Richardson
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
by jman07 on Apr 27, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about the fact
That McGloin was in his third year in the program and Bolden was in his 3rd month?
by speedomike on Apr 27, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about the fact that Bolden had more starting/game experience when he was benched?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
But even if I gave you that...
…but the stars were reversed, trust me, there’d still be a big camp totally cool with McGloin sticking in there based solely on the stars.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's probably true
I base my disfavor of McGloin purely on the fact that he was terrible against the only good teams that he played against. That and the fact that he had exponentially more exposure to the offense than Bolden or Jones.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that requires some emphasis here.
I don’t think Fugi is arguing for anything except that there are certain portions of all fan bases that believe HS recruiting rankings are the beginning and end of it.
sMike, on the other hand, seems to have mastered his ability to avoid hearing about OMG stars. More power to him for that.
/mediator’d?
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem to be trying to convince yourself of something
I’ve heard/read exactly zero people say Bolden, Jones, and Newsome should be ahead of McGloin because of their recruiting rankings.
Bolden, Jones, Newsome
should be ahead of McGloin because of their recruiting rankings.
/that guy’d
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
Haha you must not be looking in the right places.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Link please. Preferrably to a news source, even if it’s an opinion piece. Please, no Smizik or Cook.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
O they're not news sources
Things I’ve seen on Twitter, message boards, etc. Just kind of the mood I get. Maybe you don’t. We all see things differently.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I read TAP
That’s about the craziest level of crazy PSU fans. People who pay to talk about this stuff. (For the record-I don’t pay, I use a friend’s account. Although that might make me even more crazy). Even there that’s not the argument I’m seeing. I think more than anything what I’m seeing is people pissed off at the coaching staff.
Look, we clearly disagree. That’s fine. But, you’re basically saying that you’ve written a huge post on a situation that you don’t want us to talk about this offseason because of a mood you “kind of” get. Ok. Well, the mood I kind of get from your post is that you wanted to take a shot at recruiting rankings and people who put stock into them.
and endorse McGloin
in a backhanded kind of way.
“Have you lost weight? You used to be sooo fat!”
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Look up my writing from after the Michigan game
In the face of Moxie fever, I was still pro-Bolden.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure that is part of the bias
but (and this is without the Bolden transfer drama which dropped him down a few pegs in my opinion) my preference for Bolden is the type of mistakes the two quarterbacks were making, and how much I’d weigh them relative to each other, as well as how easily fixed I perceive each issue to be.
As a counterpoint to your ratings bias, Kevin Newsome and Paul Jones were both higher rated QBs, and I think that at this point I’d prefer McGloin over them. It is hard to say, as I’ve seen pretty much nothing of Newsome or Jones other than Newsome looking like Clark and Robinson prior to their breakout years (ie the predictable run to the right, never pass the ball). My unwillingness for Jones is just based off of the coaches comments that he’s not ready.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
The perceived difference is also based on the fact that McGloin had two years to learn the system and Bolden had five weeks.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a fair point and a quality piece.
I think giving weight to their star ratings now is unnecessary, but that doesn’t necessarily make their ratings wrong. Those are based on measurables and potential impact. A 5-star QB isn’t likely to make an impact his freshman year. The fact that Bolden got himself on the field at all proves his ranking was no fluke.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
When has McGloin ever shown to be that way?
Find his spring interview in the fanshots – all he’s ever said is that while he definitely wants to start, he’ll stay at PSU regardless and do his best to make the team better. That’s about as opposite as ‘me first’ as it gets.
Saying Bolden should stay because he would be a good backup to have,
calling out Herbstreit about his own performance rather than talking about the team’s win. Those are two just off the top.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Beat me to it
Also, not retiring/transferring after the Florida game is pretty selfish in my eyes, though I would have preferred that he benched himself for the second half.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't mind the Herbstreit thing.
One of the rare times that Kirk spouted off at the mouth on a topic that he clearly wasn’t prepped on. He took it on the chin when McGloin called him out on it. I respect it.
The Bolden comment from early this spring definitely rubbed me the wrong way.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was an incredibly important game for the team.
Herby also picked against the team. I just wish that had been the focus, instead of placing himself firmly in the spotlight.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
McGloin was also very "in the moment" when he said that
it was not a sit down, prep for it interview. He was all jacked up after a big win. Wasn’t he still on the field when he said that?
My coach is better than your coach
Yes he was,
and I don’t care. Not very Penn Stater of him.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if we go back to the threads after that game,
how many people will have approved of that comment at the time he made it?
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
I laughed at the time, no doubt about it.
Just because it was funny, doesn’t mean it wasn’t emblamatic of a poor character trait.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I am more offended by the quality of his play
than the Herbie statement
At the time it was funny. He was a walk on who beat Michigan. We loved him for a moment.
My coach is better than your coach
by letsgopsu on Apr 27, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still "like" him
I think he’d be a great backup, and a guy who can win games when pressed into service. I’m more confident with him than I would have been with Chris Ganter. Paul Cianciolo? Eh. No idea.
He’s going to have to keep him mouth shut and put up in legitimate games this year if he starts for me to be anywhere near the bandwagon. The criticism of him has been over the top, so I drifted toward him for a bit. But I’d like to see someone step up and grab the reigns and put an end to this story.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Emblematic of a poor character trait?
Really? This is what I mean when I write every small thing the kid does is blown out of porportion.
Did DC17 share that character trait?
Clark responds to Tod McShay in 2008.
Someone fix the link for me if you can. And while watching it, bear in mind that Clark was asked about McShay well after the game, and he wasn’t making a joke like McGloin was. IMO the responses are basically the same.
I can't watch it here,
what did he say? I feel very confident he didn’t say he was gunning for McShay. Also, he was asked to address McShay’s comments, not approached for an interview about the team’s win.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 28, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's defensible because
McShay is an asshat.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
by jman07 on Apr 29, 2011 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I was very excited that he proved herbie wrong
however at this point his bragging after the game seems laughable. Its like when you go golfing, and one of the guys or gals in the foursome talks the whole way about how good he is, and then plays awful golf for 14 holes and everyone is busting him or her about being really bad , but on 15 he pars and yells “see, I told you I was a good golfer.” On one hole maybe, but the criticism in general is not incorrect.
Also, why he cared so much about what herbstreit had to say is beyond me. It almost seems like he knew it would be a soundbite so he said it for publicity.
Was thinking the same thing
I’m pretty sure after that Northwestern comeback we were all drunk on Moxie.
Purple Drank's cousin
Red Moxie.
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
This isn't what he said about Bolden.
He said that Bolden WAS a good backup to have (as in LAST SEASON, when Bolden WAS THE BACKUP)
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
Hmmm,
I thought they asked him what he thought about Bolden transferring, and he said, “it’s too bad, he is a good backup to have.”
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, people always omit wha prompted that comment -
Which was the interviewer telling him that Bolden’s father – a grown man – called him a “third stringer” after he’d started half the season.
McGloin ony ever speaks out when criticised unnecessarily harshly. I don’t fault him for taking a jab at Herbie who gave him NO CHANCE, and I don’t fault him for his semi-dig back at the Bolden’s. He’s a 21 year old in the spotlight for the first time in his life. A more matuer individual (like Mr. Bolden is supposed to be) would just deflect the criticism all together and not make the small jabs back. Hopefully he’ll learn to do that as he grows up.
except
are you sure he isnt a third stringer? Are you convinced Herbie was wrong about him in retrospect?
The answer, for me, to both of those questions is “I am not.” Ergo i do not remotely see that criticism as unnecessarily harsh.
What?
McGloin stepped up and was a huge part in the offense scoring 42 points in a game Herbstreit gave PSU no chance to win. He gave PSU no chance to win because he didn’t think McGloin would be able to lead the offense to nearly enough points to keep up with Michigan. Yes, it’s unnecessarily harsh to give an unkown 0 chance to do something.
McGloin started half the season, and outperformed Bolden. For Mr. Bolden to call him a third stringer after that is unnecessarily harsh. And after spring practices Bolden STILL isn’t any better than McGloin.
Yes, it’s unnecessarily harsh to give an unkown 0 chance to do something.
I think that actually is pretty rational. Your opinion is respected but I dont know how calling someone a third stringer when they actually were a third stringer is unnecessarily harsh, just as I dont know how saying McGloin would have trouble moving the ball is unnecessarily harsh, particularly when his point was proven correct in the long run when he had trouble moving the ball and scoring points in big games like MSU, OSU and Florida. Did Herbie misinterpret the strength of Michigan’s defense, absolutely. But his overall analysis of Penn State’s offense with McGloin under center wasnt far off.
It's one thing to raise McGloin as a big question mark on national TV.
It’s another to say he CAN’T and WON’T do something. And McGloin was AHEAD of Bolden when Bolden senior made that comment. He hasn’t been a third-stringer since. He was the starter, and ahead of Bolden. That was nothing but a grown man attacking a student athlete.
Can anyone think of another PSU player who an analsyst
completely wrote off like that before a big game? I can’t even think of a similar situation for comparison.
if herbstreit had said that before the Florida game
instead of before the Michigan game, would we be talking about this? Would his criticism not be entirely correct? The point your missing is that while he was wrong about the game, he was entirely correct in his overall analysis. McGloin had a nice game, most would argue Royster had a better one anyway.
You’ll never convince me that calling someone a third stringer is bad, especially when they are a third stringer, and have been for years.
I would be.
The offense under McGloin still managed 24 points vs. UF despite the mistakes. The kid can make plays – which is what Herbstreit gave McGloin no chance of doing.
Explain to me how McGloin is STILL a third stringer after winning the starting job for the second half of the season and being no worse than even with the other top candidate for the job for 2011? How does that work?
agree to disagree then
as much credit as you want to give him for having a nice game against Michigan, I will destroy him for single handedly losing the florida game. aside from the blocked punt, every single TD florida scored in that game was a direct result of good field position because of a terrible mcgloin pick. The kid makes a lot of plays… for the other team. McGloin has lost more games for Penn State on his own than Bolden ever did.
If my recollection is correct Bolden was shredding up Minnesota’s defense before he got hurt. Lets not pretend McGloin came in because Bolden was so ineffective and we needed a change. He came in because Bolden got hurt.
Listen, I’m not sitting here trying to convince you Bolden is Aaron Rodgers or anything, but I dont understand the McGloin apologists who act like Matt McGloin walked in and tore apart opposing defenses and showed himself to be heads and tails superior to everyone else on the roster. Maybe I watched different games than everyone else.
I remember doing a crude analysis on the 2 QBs
because while McGloin was putting up better scoring numbers, it was very obvious that he was facing easier teams (this was done prior to the Florida game). In the end, though, McGloin wound up performing better compared to average than Bolden was (though not by a ton). Some of that I attributed to having a better O-line and run game support, but like someone else mentioned that is very chicken/eggish, as the improved QB play could have led to better production by the rest of the offense.
Still, while both had their faults, McGloin’s faults (in my opinion) were significantly worse.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and I held that opinion about his being prone to interceptions
before the OSU game and before the Florida game. Those 2 games did not help my opinion of him.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Facing easier teams?
Which teams that McGloin played were easier than YSU, Temple, Kent State, or Illinois?
I don’t understand how McGloin’s faults could be ‘significantly worse’ unless you somehow ignore things like Bolden taking two sacks in less than a quarter vs. Northwestern, then McGloin coming in and not getting touched the rest of the game. The OL didn’t magically get better at pass protection when McGloin came in. You can try to write that off as inexperience all you want, but there’s no more or less guarantee that he can learn pocket awareness than there is that McGloin can stop throwing into coverage.
easier teams:
(disclaimer: statistics can be used and twisted in so many ways, so this isn’t proof positive of anything, but it is pretty good evidence to support the claim. Also, I know that Temple and Kent State played an easier schedule, and I know that YSU is 1-AA. I’ve also included Florida, even though I originally didn’t factor them in)
B = Bolden, M = McGloin
Scoring Defense:
3 Alabama (B)
5 OSU (M)
7 Iowa (B)
16 Temple (B)
29 Florida (M)
39 MSU (M)
42 Kent St (B)
48 Illinois (B)
77 NW (~4 drives B, the rest M)
98 Minnesota (1Q B, 3Q M)
102 Indiana (M)
108 Michigan (M)
McGloin gets all his glory for beating up on 4 of the worst defenses in the nation, plus one pretty good half against one of the top defenses in the nation before throwing that game away. Temple and Kent States defenses possibly could have put up better numbers in the Big Ten.
If you look at pass defense and overall defense the numbers are pretty similar.
Now maybe you missed this, but I was actually using these numbers to somewhat support McGloin, as he performed better compared to these teams average defensive output than Bolden did for his opponents average defensive output.
As for “significantly worse”, I see Bolden’s problem as he started getting rattled, and wound up losing confidence and freezing under pressure. Maybe he doesn’t fix that, but it seems like one of the problems that gets better with experience. His other notable deficiencies were lack of leadership, and not being as familiar with the playbook, both of which again come with experience.
McGloin’s problem as I see it stems more from attitude (gunslinger), which in my opinion seems less fixable. Add into that the fact that his biggest strength is that same attitude and you face a bit of a dilemma in reducing both qualities with the “fix”
And again, even if we are to assume that they are virtually equal QBs in this competition, wouldn’t you rather have the guy you can get 3 more years of playing time (and the development/experience that comes with that) instead of only 2? Maybe not, and there is something to said for loyalty to the upper classmen, but in this case I don’t see why the team should be any more loyal to McGloin over Bolden.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 29, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
'Shredding Minny's D'
McGloin’s biggest fault is that he didn’t run himself into a defender and knock himself out for the season on his first play in the second half of OSU. I’ve never seen anyone get so much credit for a hot-start. Bolden started hot vs. Kent State too, then threw two picks to the same guy.
Overall was McGloin way better than Bolden? No. Overall did McGloin do some key things way better than Bolden? Absolutely. Of those things the biggest were pocket presence, throwing on the run, and accuracy on fades. If Bolden could do those things as well as McGloin there would be no discussion – he’d be a four year starter.
"The kid can make plays"
Funniest. Thing. Ever.
It’s like the O$U, MSU and Florida games never happened. Did the world end after the NW game? Is this all a dream? If so, why am I still at work?
by kijana's acl on Apr 28, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, more points vs. UF than Illinois, Alabama, and Iowa
combined. Despite five turnovers. McGloin made plays in all of those games. Bad plays don’t erase good to great ones.
Really?
You know that Bolden, or for that matter Jones or Newsome, aren’t better than McGloin. Glad to hear that we have a member of the coaching staff posting here.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe says it's 99% between Bolden and McGloin
So yes, based on that it’s safe to say that McGloin is better than Jones and Newsome. I’ve seen NOTHING to indicate Bolden has separated himself from McGloin at this point. So do I KNOW Bolden isn’t better right now – no, but I’ve seen no evidence to the contrary.
99% between Bolden and McGloin
does not mean that they are equal. There’s a 99% chance that I’m going to have a drink this evening, but the likelihood that I will drink a beer is infinitely greater than the likelihood that I will drink barley wine.
There are levels to what Joe says.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't write that 99% chance means Bolden and McGloin are equal
However if Bolden was clearly better than McGloin, they’d name him starter. There’s been reports that they’re still about equal, and no reports I’ve heard of that Bolden has seperated himself. Until I see some evidence to the contrary, it’s fair to say they’re even.
Did you watch the Florida game??
McGloin separated himself from Bolden…
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
Did you watch the Illinois game?
It was just as much offensive fail as the UF game. More mistakes, yes – but at least the offense showed some life outside of one underthrown bomb.
Seriously, I can do this all day. As bad as McGloin was at times, Bolden was as bad or worse in his own way. Neither one was a good QB overall last year. Both have to improve a lot to win against good teams next year.
I agree Bolden was as bad or worse
but the Illinois game is a terrible comparison. The entire team sucked, as did Bolden. In the Florida game most of the team played fairly well and McGloin was awful. In my opinion we could have won the Illinois game with Bolden’s game, had we had a defense and some running backs/o-line. I don’t think we could have won the Florida game with McGloin playing like that, he got good games from most of his supporting cast and still found a way to lose. McGloin played with an o-line that was playing better and a running game, Bolden had none of that.
What it comes down to is whether you want someone who will minimize the risks and mistakes for less production, or maximize the risks and mistakes for more production. People can win with game managers (especially defensive focused teams like us), its much harder to win with someone who turns the ball over a ton.

(Taken from SI, NFL playoffs since ’70)
Now there are some causation/correlation issues here (not to mention grammar) but its a pretty clear case to me. If you don’t throw multiple interceptions chances are in your favor.
This is saying nothing about the future, maybe McGloin has improved and will drastically cut down his interceptions. Maybe Bolden will continue to suck (he didn’t take great care of the ball either, but more of his interceptions were of the freshman i’m in over my head variety than horrible decision making) or even get worse. But if they are about the same as last year, I think Bolden is the better option. Our biggest wins are usually of the 17-20 to 7-13 variety, not 40s to 30s. (OSU 2005, 17-10. MRob 11-20 77 yards 0 ints. -- OSU 2008, 13-7. Clark 12-20 121 yards 0 ints.) Even our potent offenses featured few interceptions (1994- Collins had 7).
With all that said, I will say that I am not on any team, because I am not on the coaching staff and haven’t seen them play. I believe the coaches will make the right call and if not, me being able to say “I told ya so” won’t make me feel any better.
Also its 330 AM, so the chances of this post making sense are slim to none.
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
by bigs26 on Apr 28, 2011 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They had the same number of turnovers last year.
McGloin threw two more picks, but two fo Bolden’s many fumbles were recovered by defenses. So the option isn’t points and turnovers or no points and fewer turnovers. The option (assuming no change from last season) is points and turnovers or no points and turnovers. I’ll take the former.
Also, vs. Illinois Bolden was able to do nothing outside of one underthrown ball. He missed on almost every play he tried to make. IMO that was as large a part of the whole team implosion as was the defensive injuries. After PSU couldn’t convert on the early Illini turnover, you just saw the air go out of the entire team. They had NO CONFIDENCE in Bolden’s ability to lead the offense to TDs.
Meanwhile, why is Bolden always given a pass for ‘the whole team sucking’ vs. Illinois but McGloin is not for the team’s performance vs. OSU. What help did McGloin get, particularly in the second half of that game? The D let OSU run all over them, there was no run game and the ref’s were allowing OSU’s DBs to mug our WRs without PI calls. The whole team was just as bad in the second half of OSU as it was vs. Illinois, but that game is always ‘all McGloin’s fault.’
Again, I don’t care who starts, and I trust that whoever starts will have proven themselves to be the best man at that time. It’s just the inconsisties in analysis and the outright disdain for McGloin that I find myself continually arguing against.
a few things
while Bolden and McGloin may have had similar ACTUAL turnover numbers, McGloin had many more balls that should have been intercepted, but was aided by the fact that he was playing against TERRIBLE defenses that couldn’t make the play. Even in McGloin’s “big wins” I remember being very disappointed in his play because of the almost-interceptions. When I talk about McGloin being a turnover machine I take those poor passes into consideration.
As for the Illinois game, I think a lot of people are factoring in that half the defense was injured for that game. Bolden and the offense still weren’t that impressive, though.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Illinois was one of the worst offensive displays at PSU I have ever seen
6-4 was worse, but no much. Especially since Illinois’ defense wasn’t really that good. All they did was stack the line and press cover to take away the quick outs and short routes. The fade was open all day and RB could have closed his eyes on the snap, taken 3 steps back and heaved and got closer to hitting a fade than he did in that game. The play calling didn’t help but he could not hit what Illinois was giving. It was by far RB’s worse game. He improved greatly during the bye week and probably would have kept going if he hadn’t gotten hurt.
My grammer skills need improved.
The worst part for me is how the team just
QUIT on Bolden. They had absolutely no confidence in his ability to pull out a win. Contrast that to how the team responded to McGloin’s first three picks vs. Florida. I saw no quit in anyone. For whatever reason, that team responded better to McGloin.
Maybe they’ve lost some faith in him after the last two picks, and maybe spring practice has restored some faith in Bolden. I actually hope that latter is true.
The team sure as hell didn’t look like they quit against Minnesota when Bolden was in there. Quite frankly, it looked to me like the exact opposite – that the bye week and practice made a massive difference and the offense was actually clicking together.
Sure, while things were going well they were with him.
What if things started to go poorly, like they did vs. Kent State when he threw two picks to the same guy after a similar hot start?
Just because I've got a deep-seated need to remind
That the Illinois Incident was the game in which one Doug Klopacz blew an assignment so badly that it resulted in a 3man rush recording a sack and prompted the esteemed and honorable Jack Ham to mutter ‘Jesus’ in disgust ON THE AIR.
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
That's the low bar standard Stank or Howle
Has to climb over this season. I just remember Wiz looking at him like wtf.
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
and there were nine guys within 8 yds of the line of scrimage all day
O-line and game planning sucked, the defense was decimated and the had RB been able to complete a fade pattern there would have been a chance.
My grammer skills need improved.
But as I said, I feel Bolden's turnovers are more correctable.
He was terrible at reading complex blitzes (and uncomplex blitzes) but that is something that comes with time in the program and experience. Many of his fumbles were a result of this as well as some of his interceptions. If he has any football IQ this will be fixed by now. Most of McGloin’s turnovers were the decision making variety, which is usually much tougher to correct.
The difference in the OSU vs. the Illinois game, is that OSU was worlds better than Illinois defensively. How did the running game do worse against Illinois than they did against OSU? (This is also an indictment on Bolden’s game, as I’ve said he played terribly in that game) And its chicken and the egg, did Bolden cause the running game to be unsuccessful or did the running game doing nothing allow them to stop Bolden easily? About the confidence in Bolden, I’m not going to pretend I remember one way or the other, or that I can tell from the stands.
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
First, you'll make more mistakes when you try to
make more plays. It’s easy to not throw ‘almost picks’ when you don’t even look for your WRs downfield. Next, I feel many are forgetting the many balls Bolden threw into tight coverage that should also be counted as ‘almost picks.’ If the same standard is applied to both, than the 80 yard TD to Moye that was underthrown is also an ‘almost pick.’
Finally, McGloin’s picks and almost picks drop by at least a third if he learns to do just ONE thing – double check that his third read in the flat is actually open. If he remembers to do that in pressure situations, he’s a pretty good QB with just that one improvement. I don’t understand how anyone could think that’s beyond him.
Bolden did throw into some tight coverage.
The difference is he has a cannon and squeezed them in there. Now, the receivers dropped a lot of those bullets, but it’s not like they were almost picks.
And here is the major problem, not recognizing a blitz that leads to a fumble or wobbly pass when you’ve had a few dozen college practices MAY be correctable. Now, let’s use your numbers. If one third of his picks are correctable, then two thirds are not. I assume then that you are acknowledging that he throws it into double and triple coverage way too often. How are you ok with that?
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 28, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The "yours numbers" piece was about McGloing.
Just realize I didn’t make that clear.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 28, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
McGloin's arm is also strong enough
to complete passes into tight coverage. Review the TD pass to Moye if you don’t believe me.
Almost all of McGloin’s picks would also have been picked off had Bolden made the same throw at the same time. The difference in arm strength between them is way overblown. His arm is about as strong as Clark’s, and stronger than Devlin’s, and much stronger than Mill’s.
Also, I didn't write that only a third are correctable
I wrote that about a third are easily correctable with the one adjustment. All QBs throw some picks. Again, Colt McCoy threw 18 as a sophomore. Hell, Peyton Manning was picked off something like 12 times in three games last year, wasn’t he? Watch Kerry throw two bad picks in the middle of the field and several more ‘almost picks’ vs. Illinois in 1994. Even great QBs can get confused by coverages at times. To write off McGloin this early in his career is still absurd in my mind.
Agreed,
but both quarterbacks are in the wrong. I feel it is easier to get more aggresive than less when you add experience and comfort in the offense.
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
Right.
Important point. I’m not a Bolden or bust guy. If Bolden ever plays for us again, he needs to show improvement or I’ll be all over him. I’m more of an anyone-but-McGloin guy.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty much my stance as well.
I honestly think I might be more comfortable with Newsome, though I think he was a bit fumble prone, so maybe not.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that to be true, but it doesn't impact my opinion.
From what I know of Mr. Bolden he has his own issues. But I don’t care how he carries himself, he doesn’t represent our University. McGloin, on the other hand, is a representative. In failing to realize that and getting into a personal spat with a teammate’s father through the press, that is putting yourself ahead of your team and you University.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Personal spat?
Why does every thing this kid says get blown way out of proportion? I don’t remember exactly what he said post UM, but I remember it was a small dig at Herbstreit. Yet this kid takes more heat for that than Morelli did for arguing with UM’s fans in 2007.
Hes the me-first kind of guy
that doesnt go out and say “all i care about is me”, but just hints at it every chance he can get. Like, “oh my BMW is great and all, but boy the gas milege is terrible. Luckily spending $60 a week isn’t going to break the bank. Hahahahahaha…now off to the yacht club”.
So basically he’s the antagonist of every 80’s teen movie ever.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
He still
wears a blue blazer and a polo shirt with the collor popped. And Aviators.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
I thought popped collars came back in?
After all, 80s jeans are back in style.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
Are they?
/drops phone and leans-over to peg jean cuffs!
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
And a captains hat.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
that
or a visor slightly cocked to the side. And frosted tips. Which would probably look weird with his ginger hair, but still.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
with a nautical themed pajmina afghan.
and his flippy-floppies
by swiggy04 on Apr 27, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm flipping burgers, you at Kinko's
Straight flipping copies
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
...like this?

" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 27, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You'll have nothing and like it
The sea was angry that day my friends
by Bob Sacamano on Apr 27, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well then,
He is awesome. Only awesome people dress like that. I hope the blue blazer has gold buttons.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't there a Waulenpapac Walleye Club? or something
where they sit around and compare who has the biggest trolling motor. Isn’t that what they do in NE PA?
My grammer skills need improved.
I have not been to Lake Wallenpaupack in a very long time, have no idea
Michael Scott recommends the Booze Cruise
My coach is better than your coach
he'll get you high tonight?
\oldskoolbillyjoel’d
My coach is better than your coach
by letsgopsu on Apr 27, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great minds think alike
that was the first thing I thought of when I read that.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
even if it was wrong and I was too lazy to look it up
spelling sucks’d
My grammer skills need improved.
I'm trying to figure out what the hell I meant by that statement
I knew I had spelled it wrong, but thanks was kind of what I meant. Proves you should never try to listen to what your wife is saying while you are trying to post. I do a better job expressing myself when I’m drunk. I was ogling the wife a bit, she had her hair pulled back and had just come in from weeding the front flower bed and was a tad sweaty.
My grammer skills need improved.
Proves you should never try to listen to what your wife is saying while you are trying to post.
Unless your wife is from Wallenpaupack
by swiggy04 on Apr 28, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Proves you should never try to listen to what your wife is saying while you are trying to post.
“Honey, the computer can wait until we’re finished.”
/tap tap tap M C G L O I N tap tap tap.
"My BMW is great, but the gas mileage is terrible."
#humblebrag
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
McGloin's not me-first.
He’s just not very good at all.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the difference is
one seems to be “me-first” on the field, the other off. Not sure which would be better/worse…
Fire Dan Snyder
Well done article.
Although I will say I think it’s lacking a more in depth section on why the stars for McGloin don’t matter.
You nailed why the stars for the first three don’t matter anymore, and I think you did a good job of not necessarily advocating for one solution or another. I wonder if you skipped an explanation of why stars don’t matter for McGloing because you would have had to almost appear to be favoring him in the race? Unlike the other three, you would have had to argue that he was better than a walk on, and would have had three negative analyses and one positive. I think it would be very challenging to discuss why his low ranking doesn’t matter without appearing to favor him, but I would be insterested to see what an attempt looks like.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
Thanks
Like I said to misdreavus79, it’s apples/oranges. McGloin has performed as most expected to this point, so there’s not a whole lot of discord out there about him. When it comes to the other three, though, there’s a crowd ready to clobber the coaches or even the players for not matching wild expectations.
I just think expectations might have been a little too high for anyone to be happy and if the coaches are guilty of messing something up, it’s buying in to the recruiting/fan hype and believing they could get by with all these young guys.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
I didn’t expect us to do well at all. But at the same time I don’t think McGloin is any better than any of the three. I just wanted to se more of a “it doesn’t matter because they all suck” type of conclusion.
by misdreavus79 on Apr 27, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Listening to the NFL draft experts
drone on about the QB prospects translates well to the HS to College transition. The QB’s who make it in the NFL are those with a high football IQ and an ability to make quick decisions. The athletic ability is second.
Do we have a stable of athletic guys with no IQ and one guy with an IQ and lesser ability?
Unsupervised children will be given a case of 4loco and a basket of kittens
No
McGloin’s low football IQ is amply evidenced by the number of bad decisions he makes with the football. This includes not just his interceptions, but the number of balls that he threw that should have been interceptions.
I’m not saying that Bolden, Jones or Newsome are definitely better, just that McGloin’s football IQ is certainly not his strong suit. To me, his strongest attribute is his self-confidence. It’ also happens to be among his greatest shortcomings, along with a C- arm and the inability to protect the football.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Rah combined two things there.
Football IQ and quick decisionmaking. McGloin definitely has the second. And that’s almost as important as IQ
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
I'd rather my QB hold onto the ball a second too long
than throw the ball to the other team. That’s just me.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Right,
I would actually rather have my QB not make a decision at all than make the wrong decision very quickly.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you end up with Richard Todd, who QB'd the worst Jets teams ever
High completion percentage but never threw a ball away to avoid a sack and threw very few int’s. He took more unnecessary sacks than any Qb ever.
My grammer skills need improved.
But I'd also rather,
my QB to throw the ball away rather than get sacked (as long as he is outside of the tacklebox).
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
throw the ball away rather than get sacked (as long as he is outside of the tacklebox).
This makes sense, but it doesn’t work if you are “throwing it away” to the other team.
I agree.
I thought the “throwing it away” phrase implied that it would not be catchable, even by the defense.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
mcgloin's throws
seem to only be catchable by the defense.
by swiggy04 on Apr 27, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So basically,
Paige comes to our rescue and points out that we all want a QB who is good.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nope,
unfortunately the guy with lesser ability can’t figure out how not to throw it to the other team.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
McGloin’s low football IQ is amply evidenced by the number of bad decisions he makes with the football. This includes not just his interceptions, but the number of balls that he threw that should have been interceptions.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
Giant posting fail.
But kijana’s post above that I quoted had me nodding along at me desk.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And I was nodding along at my desk,
to your post about nodding along at your desk.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I was nodding along to my desk
but it was to Queens “Another One Bites the Dust”. I agree with the point above though.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
by skarocksoi on Apr 27, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
a very
noddable song
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
by PSUinBOSSton on Apr 27, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LOLZ AT YOU PEOPLE SITTING AT DESKS
I’ve been sitting on my bed all day…but nodding nonetheless
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Apr 27, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
they say that when you are doing CPR now
you shouldn’t do the breaths anymore (they don’t really help, there is enough oxygen supply in the blood, and the most important part is to keep the blood flowing to get that oxygen supply flowing through chest compressions) and just do chest compressions to the beat of Staying Alive, or Another One Bites the Dust (though they recommend the former for the positive connotations).
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 28, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
McGloin's ceiling isn't limited because he's a former walk-on
His ceiling is limited because his ceiling is limited. And there’s evidence (aka football games) that have shown that. And so is Bolden’s and so is Newsome’s and so is Jones’s. I haven’t seen the arguments regarding who should start at QB being about recruiting rankings. Who is saying this?
I don’t really get your point.
You sound like me when I'm in
cranky grading mode.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
by Paige2PSU on Apr 27, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's speedomike when he hasn't had his pancakes
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
I think that is the point.
Some will make the argument that one or two of these kids have to be good (and if they’re not, that it’s bad coaching) because they were highly touted. But, maybe they’re not good – not because of the things stars measure, but because of other things. So, yes, all of their ceilings may be limited.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
One or two of these kids have to be good, but when's the cut off for that?
There’s no expectation for McGloin to be any good because his ceiling is low. He’s serviceable, but he hasn’t proven otherwise. Bolden is also serviceable, but has been in the program 9 months. Jones a little over a year, and who knows?
Kids who are high level prospects should be “good” by the time they’re juniors. It will be a coaching problem if it hasn’t happened by then. But none of these kids meet these pre-requisites, so judging Jay’s effectiveness on this group is hard to quantify. All I know is that Robinson and Clark were excellent, Morelli was passable but atrocious in big spots, and Mills had the brain and the touch but not enough arm to be effective.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of agree
I have to say its not the scouting services at fault for giving each player certain rankings and not factoring in intangibles and maturity. (that may not have been the exact point being made, but regardless) It’s our fault as fans for using them as the be all, end all source on how a player “should” perform and develop. Rankings are just another data point to judge a prospect on in my mind. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
They may be less
but definitely not more.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer offers as a better judge of talent
but again, just another data point.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
I only consider offers from Va Tech.
None of the other schools matter.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
I like that this became a meme after I ripped apart that list of "elite" programs
based on non-sensical criteria.
I feel my contributions to BSD have been positive from that alone :)
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I just posted
“Virginia Tech?? You gotta be f’ing kidding me,” or something like that.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
I don't really know how the whole recruiting thing works,
but that makes a lot more sense to me.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
in my eyes
a five star player is a guy who, in an ideal situation, should develop into all american talent. The key there is “an ideal situation”, which very rarely, if ever, is true. There are usually limiting factors, like maturity, IQ, depth chart, coaching, the system the player is in, etc. that may hinder that players development. The stars are just a measurement of the players physical abilities and proficiencies. They don’t take into account other things, like intagibles.
Offers on the other hand, are how each program ranks each prospect, which may or may not include other factors in the players development. But each one is a separate data point to judge a player and help form expectations.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
and so we hear about how talented the “highly recruited” trio is and how limited McGloin’s ceiling is because he’s a former walk-on.
correct, mcgloin’s ceiling is limited because he is not a good football player, although that’s the same reason he was a walk on and not offered a scholarship, and therefore one could equate his low ceiling vicariously to the fact that he’s a walk on.
by swiggy04 on Apr 27, 2011 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Implosions are slightly less messy
For content’s sake, I think McGloin’s ceiling is more limited because of time-related factors: age and experience. McGloin has more of both so, from my perspective, he is less likely to get better.
I’m not saying that he won’t step up improve at a rate better than Bolden, but my assumption is based on where they’re at now, not where they were at when they left high school.
IMO where they were when they left HS is irrelevant at this point.
Bolden and McGloin are at the same total level (with different strengths and weaknesses) right now. You can’t project learning curves into the future based on where they were when they came from HS. It took McGloin two years of college to get to about the level Bolden was out of HS. Who knows what his learning curve looked like during that time? I do know that if MRob had played with this team as a RS Soph, the result wouldn’t have been much prettier. But we may have won every game on the schedule if RS Senior MRob was QBing this team. As such I think it’s ridiculous to write off a RS Soph who’s shown an ability to make big plays and score.
"where they were when they left HS" was not part of my argument
I’m talking about how long they were in the program and where they were now. (Well, November-January, because I haven’t seen any spring practices.)
The last time I saw Bolden in a game he had 3-4 months experience in Penn State football. The last time I saw McGloin in a game he had 2 years in Penn State football.
The rest of your arguement is aimed at other people, since we both agree that “it took McGloin two years of college to get to about the level Bolden was out of HS.” Whatever I think is likely or not, the best man for the job in the fall should play in the fall, regardless of “the future of the program” and who might be the best QB in 2012.
I don't know who the intended audience for this article is
We’ve seen McGloin and Bolden each play about half a season of football as the starting QB. Is recruiting ranking really coming up a whole lot in debates about the QBs?
I mean, I guess you could say that McGloin detractors are motivated subconsciously by his former walk-on status, but I think that pointing to his play on the field in actual games is a pretty coherent rebuttal to that.
I don't want to talk about the quarterbacks.
Let’s talk about the linebackers.
I want Mauti on the weakside, Michael Zordich (Who should play defense) in the middle, and Stupar on the other side. White Linebackers of Doom for the win.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
I'm going to go out for a while.
When I come back, I want at least 20 comments about the linebackers.
Quarterbacks are pussies.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I want a defensive alignment of
Still, Ware, Hill, and Stanley on the front four, Stupar, Zordich, and Mauti at LB. Lynn at one CB spot, Willis at a Safety with Fortt and Hodges just roaming around looking for somebody to hit. WOOOOOOOO!!! 5 LINEBACKERS!!
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
It's honestly gotten to the point where I'm so desperate for football that I no longer care who starts.
I just want to see somebody get tackled.
That said, seeing Ware earn a starting spot would be cool considering where he was a few years ago, and I’m relying on Still to be awesome.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
I want to see Ware at Linebacker
Just because.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to see everyone at linebacker.
You shouldn’t even be admitted to this school if you wouldn’t make a decent linebacker. It should be on the application.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
by dwf5095 on Apr 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I thought it was?
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, I think you're right.
They didn’t outright ask me if I would make a good linebacker. But Dean Stoller did mention being particularly impressed by one of my essays, which I cleverly titled “That One Time I Tackled My Younger Brother And The Doctor Made A Housecall”.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
by dwf5095 on Apr 27, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I would have made a good Mike LB
Sort of in the mold of a Josh Hull. Smart, good football IQ, no top notch measurables but a spectacular mustache.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
No No No No No No
Stanley at DE. Still and Hill at DT. Stupar at rush linebacker/stand-up DE. Mauti in the middle, Fortt and Hodges on the outside. Hull roaming in our hybrid spot.
5 linebackers. Crush ’em.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Or, if we really want to go all out, 11 Linebackers.
We would at least have the element of surprise on our side. The opposing QB would probably be so confused that they would forget the play.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
You're very close to my dreams on the subject
Tho I read, I think, that in practice they actually did have Fortt lining up at Standup DE, instead of Stupar. I like your idea of Hull replacing Astorino at Hero.
That is, until the coaches remember that all Michael Zordiches must play defense at Penn State.
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
Slight modification
Still, Ware, Hill with Stupar as a stand up DE. Zordich, Mauti and Fortt at LB. Lynn still holding down CB with Willis at Safety. Hodges now gets to roam with Newsome looking to find new and exciting ways to violently end plays.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I still have no idea what you all want Zordich to play defense.
Yeah, he’s “emotional.” He’s also a straight line runner with very little fluidity, as was evidenced during his playing time on the offensive side of the ball last year.
We had a kid who had good instincts and no sideline speed last year. His name was Chris Colasanti. Let’s not repeat that experiment. Zordich is a fullback.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care about his emotion. His name is Michael Zordich.
Let me repeat that for you: Michael Zordich.
Michael Zordich should play defense.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, Adam
Such promise, and still such a young pup. I’ll channel my Inner Joe on this one, tho and remind us all that while youth is a disease, it can be cured.
Michael Zordich should play defense.
Does this guy look like he should be handling the ball? Or handling those poor saps who handle the ball? Oh, the mustachioed, mulletted Glory!

More pertinent to the situation at hand, tell me how comfortable this dude looks wearing this number:

See how it just drapes off him, like the jersey itself wants to be there, like it’s found home!
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
by jtothep on Apr 27, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You're both nuts.
I accepted this weeks ago. Carry on.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes yes yes so much yes yes
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Mauti at all 3 LB spots and maybe at stand-up end.
Or Jack Ham. Does he have any eligibility left?
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Could we clone Mauti?
I don’t think we have the technology.
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
If we have the technology
then I say a Lavar/Puz/Mauti/Conner/Bowman hybrid
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
You're a physicist
make it happen.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
well
If we consider a frictionless surface, and set our experiment in a vacuum. Then I can approximate the hybrid as a sphere and probably make the math work
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll just need lots of funding
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Post your paypal info
I’m sure we’d all be willing to contribute.
Lawyers first!
jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi
It seems like everything works in a vacuum. It’s like a cheat code for science.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Start
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, so close.
Isn’t it B-A-B-A-Select-Start?
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
only if you are playing two players
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahhhhhhhhh.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
at least thats what wikipedia told me
and I have never once been lied to by the internet
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 27, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
The LaVar hybyid would make him freelance too much and piss me off.
If we’re cloning linebackers, it’s going to be Jack Ham, Greg Buttle, Shane Conlan, and Posluszny.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
When was the last time a returning PSU QB who started the bowl game not start the first game of the season?
when was the last time a true freshman who started the opener the previous year
didn’t start the first game of the following season?
Theres a first time for everything.
Completely off-topic, but some twitter conversations are making me uncomfortable
I have no idea what it may or may not be about, but I hate cryptic messages from Penn Staters.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
I feel like this comment
is a cryptic message from a Penn Stater.
Go Lions !! if
by Illegal Formation on Apr 27, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Touche. See below.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
For the benefit of those of us who don't play with the new fangled tweety chirpy thing,
care to elaborate?
"I just wanted to thank you for everything you've done for this university." "Oh, I haven't done enough." - Joe Paterno.
One of the guys at Linebacker-U
“I really REALLY hope this thing I’m looking into turns out to be nothing…”
“will disclose more when I know more.”
Not particularly promising.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
A rash?
Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.
by WorldBFat on Apr 27, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Remarkably similar to RUTS' response, amazingly.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying to be open minded about the QB issue
but it’s just so hard to be open minded when I’ve seen McGloin play. To me, it just seems blatantly obvious that he is the worst option at QB. I would dare to say that not only does he have poor intangibles, but he has below average athletic ability. McGloin makes Zack Mills look like Mills had a canon for an arm.
I don’t place a lot of stock in recruiting rankings either, but I think the analysts got it right when they ranked Bolden and Jones higher than McGloin. McGloin is as good as he is ever going to be right now and he’s still not as good as the other QB’s.
I still don't see how anything we've seen tells us Bolden and Jones are so obviously better.
I mean, where is this evidence so I can see it with my own eyes?
Everyone sucks until further notice is my policy.
"I am almost ashamed at my actions, but not really." - usn_kologi, 197 lbs
by ReadingRambler on Apr 27, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know who doesn't suck? Brendan Nosovitch.
If the backup is the team’s most popular player, then the not-yet-signed is the savior.
Take a shower, shine your shoes...
by Adam Collyer on Apr 27, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
neither Bolden nor Jones threw 9 5 interceptions in their last game, so there’s the old argument that they can’t possibly be any worse (and should at least get a shot).
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It took 5 picks in one game
For McGloin to have the same number of tunrovers in equal PT as Bolden. And the team STILL scored more points in that one game than they did vs. Bama, Iowa, and Illinois combined.
Right now, assuming no improvement by either player (and right now they’re apparently still about equal) the option is turnovers and no points, or turnovers and points. I’ll take my chances with the latter, thanks.
Read what you wrote
5 picks! Five. Cinqo (/spanishd?).
So, but for his five picks (and at least 3 other near picks), McGloin steered the offense well against Florida? How about O$U? MSU? I can’t argue with that kind of logic, so I’ll just have to agree to disagree (if that is, in fact, what you’re saying … except when he sucked, he was good!)
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't write that he steered the offense well against Florida.
I made a comparison of his play to Bolden’s.
Are you deducting the points that McGloin handed to O$U and Florida
either directly (pick sixes) or indirectly? I think that should count.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't.
An interception or a fumble is a turnover. What happens after that turnover is very rarely in the control of the QB, so I don’t blame him for it regardless of the outcome. Powell’s fumble vs. Alabama wasn’t less bad because Moye made a ridiculous play to get the ball back. It wouldn’t have been worse if an Alabama picked it up and scored.
In theory, you're right
In practice, one guy threw interceptions that my toddler could have caught and run back for touchdowns. He also threw a lot of balls that should have been picked, so if we’re talking about things that are beyond a quarterback’s control (but still indicate a level of skill), I would think that dropped interceptions should matter too. How many do you think McGloin had? I’ll accept an answer that addresses his performance against Florida or in all appearances.
by kijana's acl on Apr 27, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, just one guy threw bad picks and 'almost picks'
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that I’m arguing against. They both made a ton of mistakes, but only McGloin gets chastised for them. Moving forward it doesn’t matter that Bolden was a frosh and McGloin was a RS Sophomore – because they both have to learn not to make those mistakes. No one knows who will learn to do that first, but the guy who does AND can actually score points in the redzone should start next year.
You say that interceptions returned for TDs don't matter
I say, look at the film and realize that – conservatively in the Florida game alone – McGloin could have had 2-3 more interceptions, because that does matter. So do his craptastic throws against Michigan (one that was hotly debated in this space springs to mind), O$U, et al. and I don’t thin it’s hyperbole at all.
Perhaps nothing matters except your belief that McGloin is a playmaker, in which case, you win.
by kijana's acl on Apr 28, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
An interception on a deep bomb is very different from an interception to the flat. How you turn the ball over matters.
I agree that a pick on a bomb is less likely to be returned for a TD
However from the QB’s perspective the error made could be the same – not properly seeing the coverage. For example on both McGloin’s ‘in the flat’ pick 6’s the DBs read the checkdown route while McGloin was going to his third progression, and jumped it. McGloin’s error in both cases was going through the progression too quickly and not verifying that the third option was actually open (although on the on at OSU he hesitated very briefly without looking around – I’m not sure what that was about). IMO that’s not as bad as staring down your first read and waiting too long to throw. The result was a killer, but the cause was a young player in a tough situation rushing his read. If he learns not to do that one thing alone, it will eliminate a lot of his picks and ‘almost picks.’
Don't forget
Bolden had that fun little pick 6 against Illinois and it was in the flat. I agree with you that there are different levels of egregiousness in turnovers though. Can’t we all agree for now that:
Everyone sucks until further notice is my policy.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
It was a screen
There really was nothing Bolden could of done differently in my opinion. The defender just made a great play.
I need to rewatch the play
But unless I’m remembering it wrong, the “great play” the defender made was jumping about 5" and catching a ball thrown right to him. At the time, I felt that Bolden made the wrong pre-snap read. And even if it was a screen, he should have thrown the ball away. As I remember it, it was a terrible play on Bolden’s part.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet
agreed
or take the sack. Pretty much anything other than what he did.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 29, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
turnovers and points
great we will lose every game 35-31.
The fact is we know what we have in McGloin, its his 4th year in the system, we cant expect some amazing improvement by leaps and bounds. The point everyone else is making is, if you assume correctly they were equal last year, dont you think Bolden is the one more likely to improve at a higher level than mcgloin? Bolden started games as an 18 year old, 3 months removed from HS with a tenuous grasp on the playbook (which should answer some questions about McGloin’s “ability” right there). McGloin started games against bad defenses as a 21 year old with 3 years in the system.
by swiggy04 on Apr 28, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Recruiting rankings are irrelevant at this point. So are physical tools.
I’m not sure what this is getting at, but physical tools are extremely important. Not as important as mental, given, but they’re very, very important.
Either way, being a good leader is the most important
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Apr 27, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions
I'd say they're equally important.
If you have the mental tools but don’t have the physical tools, then you’re still going to fall short at some point.
by misdreavus79 on Apr 27, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Even Mike Vick said the game is 90% mental though
But yeah, missing that 10% can be very…. very bad
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Apr 27, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty easy to say that
When you have Michael Vick’s athletic ability.
by speedomike on Apr 28, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I've noticed a lot of "I don't care who starts" lately...
If people don’t care who starts, why is this thread so long? Why are we still arguing about who was better between Bolden and McGloin?
In the end, the outcome is going to be the same. Either we’re going to suck really bad, or the defense is going to carry us to more than 7 wins.
I’m sorry, but all this talk has just destroyed any confidence I had in seeing an offense even remotely close to what 2005 or 2008 were.
Some of us don't
That doesn’t mean everybody agrees. I used to think that I didn’t want McGloin anywhere near the starting O. Honestly, at this point, I don’t really know what I think. I know what I know and that is that I trust the coaches to put the best team on the field that gives the team the best chance to win. So whichever QB that is, I’ll cheer them on til I’m blue in the face.
It's even possible that Jim Tressel drinks out of the toilet

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