by jtothep on Apr 7, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
in Football
This week we used the word polarizing in describing a stereotypical type of Penn State football player that Drew Astorino could be said to represent, but there is perhaps no figure more polarizing in the history of Penn State football than erstwhile Quarterbacks Coach, Jay Paterno. Employed as the son of a coaching legend and the person held most responsible for the development of QB14, Jay has heard more than his share of criticism. He's a high-profile figure in a high-profile position and his journey from nepotistic grad assistant has been more than a little fascinating. Here at BSD, Jay was called out in June of 2008 for his dabbling in politics and in January of last year was covered for grooming his growing personality. Most fans would acknowledge his savvy in the tech arena and, given that and his history of criticism, it's not too surprising that he does not have a Wikipedia page. But he has also has been penning the occasional column for statecollege.com and his recent offerings have been pretty fairly received as, at the very least, largely thoughtful. Today's column is no exception, as JayPa digs in for a proscriptive and predictive hypothetical depiction of a growing movement he feels is a threat to our favorite sport: offseason 7-on-7 teams.
Jay is worried about the shifting landscapes in college football recruiting and knows first-hand how quickly new industries can sprout up if left unchecked by unsuspecting parents, college and high school coaches and NCAA administrators. So in the article he paints a hypothetical scenario revolving around two key players: a wealthy alum and a high-profile high school coach. Aside from the farcical names he chose to hammer home his point (Freddie Warbucks and Fast Frankie Streets), the story of them founding an offseason 7-on-7 team is not at all preposterous and, in fact, is not even against current NCAA rules. The comparison to the 'often-sleazy world of AAU basketball recruiting' rings home realistically, and Jay moves on from his hypothetical scenario to discuss the real-world one:
The seven-on-seven coaches are outsiders, unaffiliated with any high school and are gaining influence. Some have advised young men to switch to different high schools to get better recruiting exposure or to a high school with an offense or defense that better showcases their talents.
The system has introduced outside people and recruits "mentors" for the high school coach and families to deal with. The danger for the parents is that someone with ulterior (read: financial) motives suddenly is injecting himself into a son’s college decision process after he has become a star athlete.
If you saw that Real Sports episode last week, you may have noticed how poorly the normally top-shelf investigative show tried to handle addressing all the moving parts in the Amateur/Professional argument of 'big time college sports.' They lined up a stupid panel and allowed them to talk all over the place and even Bryant Gumbel failed to keep it on point. The opportunity they missed is one Jay is hitting here: finding the power players with the money, looking at the native incentives that motivate those players and using a public forum to raise awareness. He set it all up very well and only just misses hitting a home run with his closing call to arms:
It’s time for high school and college coaches to get together with the NCAA and spell out rules that eliminate the loopholes.
The delineation of viable suggestions is always the hardest part of a Call for Change. But if Jay is serious, and it looks and sounds like he is, I would guess he would have quite a number of readers interested in hearing any real proposals for assembling this group of coaches and NCAA officials and any draft loophole-elimination language it might produce.
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Freddie Warbucks and Fast Frankie Streets.
I know he was having fun, and I’m sorry, jtot, but that deserves a hearty sigh.
"'Do you have a go-to move?' 'I have seven of 'em.' 'Do you want to share maybe a few?' 'Naw, you'll see 'em.'"
since these 7 on 7 leagues would ultimately be paying airfare, and meal stipends, etc to these players. Being a famous, wealthy alumnus of The University of Excess, wouldn’t there be some compliance issues there?
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 7, 2011 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and I hope it can gain some traction in furthering the call for recruiting reform.
I don’t know if the recruiting game has actually grown sleazier in the decade or so of my hardcore college football fandom, but we’ve certainly become much more aware of the sleaze during that time—especially in the last couple years. Either way, the time is right for some serious change. I’m not an expert by any means, but there’s definitely a case to be made that the NCAA has authority to regulate third-party recruiting enterprises—recruiting services, 7-on-7 teams, etc.—especially those that are run for profit.
by newenglandnittanylion on Apr 7, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
Some of these 7 on 7 coaches are pretty darn sleazy. They build teams that resemble the AAU basketball all-star teams that tour the country. They remove kids from their high school team, advise them on what they need to do and all the while are on the take from either a school, recruiting site, or shoe supplier.
When JayPa calls them outsiders he is absolutely correct. Some of these guys answer to no one and they can do whatever they want.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Apr 7, 2011 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
while the “mentors” are all most likely in it for themselves, is it a completely parasitic relationship, or is there at least some symbiosis? Basically, do the kids not benefit at all from it? Only the top flight kids?
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 7, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The top kids gain exposure, but not anything they wouldn’t get by attending local combines, and school camps and having a high school coach who does his job as a liaison between the high school athletes and the college coaches. What you do when you remove the kids from their team and put them on these 7on7s is that they are not working in their system from the high school level. Football is a game where memorization and understanding of your team’s concepts is extremely important to not on the player’s success but also the team’s. You take the valuable summer months away when you do all of this crap. You also put a guy with questionable motives into a very important role in the lives of impressionable young men.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Apr 7, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
For this:
You also put a guy with questionable motives into a very important role in the lives of impressionable young men.
jtothetweet
"Cats been getting hookups on tatts since back in '01". - former buckeye Antonio Pittman
by jtothep on Apr 7, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can totally see how this can play out via your firsthand knowledge.
/rec
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 7, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
to map out recruits attending the BadgerSports 7on7 camps, where they are from and what college they sign with.
Then follow the money trail.
Unsupervised children will be given a case of 4loco and a basket of kittens
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Apr 7, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Jay is an intelligent, well-spoken, young man…..the fact that he is a coach and the son of a legend, should not diminish his beliefs and abilities as an informed individual….is he influnced by the “Sr.”? Well, of course and he should be….I’ve known him since a baby and he’s a good man and someone to be proud of….and now that I’ve said that, the7 on 7 is the next cancer on college FB recruiting, as if anyone didn’t know already. The rich get richer, etc. and the corruption gets more ingrained by the minute….although it’s not quite as bad as College BB yet——not yet! But soon. Just the past 1&1/2 seasons should make us forwarned.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
by DerryPharmer on Apr 7, 2011 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
He’s very smart, and an extremely nice and approachable person. Being the son of a legend, he could carry a chip on his shoulder and look down on people, but when I’ve heard him talk, Joe is just his dad, like yours or mine. I remember leaving the BW game a few years ago and when everyone goes on the field at the end of the game, I remember seeing him in front of me headed out, and he probably had important stuff to do, but I asked if I could get my picture with him, and he stopped and said, “Sure thing.”
I’ve got nothing but respect for him as both a coach and a person.
did you just whisk me away in a time machine again?
Love, love, love the old school links.
'We've got too many people analyzing everything and sometimes they don't know what they're talking about.' -Joseph Vincent Paterno
And this blog has been around long enough now that circular citations can provide some good context for a current post.
That, and the comments are fun as hell to read through again.
jtothetweet
"Cats been getting hookups on tatts since back in '01". - former buckeye Antonio Pittman
His name was Trey Womack (he’ll actually probably pop up on a google search, b/c I believe he ended up being recruited by UVA), and the kid was just a monster athlete. We used to have fitness tests in middle school phys. ed., and he broke a 15 or 20 year old record for the half mile run we had to do. He played wide receiver for the football team, and was a star, but the only problem was: our school sucked at football. He was an extremely good athlete, but was just surrounded by mediocrity.
Anyway, people thought that he was really going to make a splash on the HS football team when we left middle school. He was fast, strong, and athletic, everything you’d want in a WR. All the sudden he left the school and transferred somewhere else. What had happened was that he was essentially recruited by a HIGH SCHOOL to come and play for them. They were a private prep school called Malvern Prep outside of Philly. Now I can totally understand him leaving his friends behind at my HS and transferring, because if he had stayed he would have had pretty close to a zero chance at getting a college scholarship offer (which he did after he transferred), but still, he was the arguably the best player our school had had, most likely ever, and he’s snatched away by having his prep school tuition paid for. Anyway, my point is that like Jay mentioned it’s not always just the college that’s shady, it’s sleazebag HS coaches and schools.
In case anyone cares: my HS has produced only two pro-caliber players in it’s history, both in basketball. The first was a guy named Geoff Petrie, who was recruited by Princeton, and was drafted into the NBA by the Portland Trailblazers, where he actually earned Rookie of the Year in the NBA in 1971. The second one’s name is Dan Geroit (who I’ve mentioned before on here) and actually just finished his career last week in the Elite 8 playing for Richmond. He graduated from HS with me in 2006.
Your story about Womack does conflict me a little. Ideally, things like these shouldn’t happen (re: 7 on 7 camps), but in the case of this child, what was he to do if he wanted to get a scholarship?
I guess finding some balance would be a good thing also.
But in the south if a kid has a sniff of real talent the coaches will find him. DaQuan Bowers is from a small town 25 miles from me, he didn’t have to leave to get a scholarship to Clemson. Coaches from around the country came to him. We have had Charlie Weis on campus before just to stop in and see if we had anyone (which we didn’t). The good recruiters get out there and make things happen.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
If a kid is good, and has the ability to answer the phone or US mail, and can post an 800 SAT. They will find you.
If a kid is good, and has the ability to run fast answer the phone or US mail, and can post an 800 SAT. They will find you.
by Tailgate Shogun on Apr 7, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I have one of the best pure option qbs in the carolinas and he is 6’4". He is smart but can’t take standardized tests very well and when teams would hear his scores they would run away. They care about that stuff.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
by carolinaeasy on Apr 7, 2011 10:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Teams like PSU run away. However, there are certainly schools out there who are, shall we say, less concerned about the academic capabilities of athletic, talented young men.
by Tailgate Shogun on Apr 8, 2011 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Florida, Ga Tech, UGa, Clemson, USC, SC State.
Now the kid has recently got a decent ACT score, but now all of these schools are out of scholarships so he is doing a preferred walk-on deal.
When in doubt, punt!
- John Heisman
especially if they help open the doors for certain kids, and especially if they give them a good education.
by The JuggerNitt on Apr 7, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I’m alright with it. As long as Football is a means to an education, and not the other way around I don’t think there is ever really a problem- whether its high school, college or whatever.
It’s difficult for sleaze to enter the equation when the student and parent has their priorities in order.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on Apr 7, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My coach is better than your coach
"'Do you have a go-to move?' 'I have seven of 'em.' 'Do you want to share maybe a few?' 'Naw, you'll see 'em.'"
by ReadingRambler on Apr 7, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember seeing Mr. Felder walk in. And then I realized that he could kill everyone in that school.
There was once a giant black wrestler at Biglerville who, upon being called the n-word, just smiled and said, “I’m not going to kill you” to his would-be bully.
"'Do you have a go-to move?' 'I have seven of 'em.' 'Do you want to share maybe a few?' 'Naw, you'll see 'em.'"
by ReadingRambler on Apr 8, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“follow the money.”
Derry, did you know him?
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Clearly you mean, “As Lester Freamon once said: follow the money.”
He would also say, “Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit” when commenting on Clay Davis, but that’s another episode for another day.
/TheWire’d
by Tailgate Shogun on Apr 7, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
because that was pre-Clark. And the hate for Jay, while still around, was lessened a bit by that, because it showed he can do something with someone who wholly buys into what he’s selling. Not to say Jay isn’t the beneficiary of nepotism, or that there aren’t reasons to question his abilities, but before the ‘08 season no one, save probably those in the Paterno family, would’ve thought Jay could have coached a two-time all Big Ten QB.
Fire Dan Snyder
And my opinion of Jay has changed for the better since then.
Though there are some out there who still blame him for all of the teams problems. When I was at FedEx for the Indiana game, there was a belligerent guy behind me who, every time Indiana stopped a running play, would yell for Jay to be fired. A running play. And it’s the QB coach’s fault? I finally turned around and said to him, Galen calls the run plays. Jay calls the pass plays.
Fire Dan Snyder
I swear to god I had the same guy behind me. He and his friends eventually got up and moved mid 2nd quarter because I threatened to get security due to their cursing and general assholeish behavior around my little sister.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
but we were in about the 20th row by the 5-10 yard line on the Penn State side. I think this guy moved down a few rows in the second half, and I do remember later was quieter (coincidence?). He had a friend with him who seemed eager to contribute when the guy was around, but as soon as the dude moved the other guy was cordial the rest of the game.
The best part was when I left to go to the bathroom in between the 1st & 2nd quarter, the guy spilled beer on one of my friends and my empty seat, all over my jacket! As much as I do enjoy drinking while watching football, this is a reason why I’m kinda glad they can’t serve alcohol at the Beav.
Fire Dan Snyder
I don’t think I’ve ever had as bad an experience at a game at State College as I did at FedEx. Parking was an absolute joke, and just a lot of the fans in general seemed very dickish. I guess the difficulty of getting tickets weeds out a lot of that element from attending home games.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
Isn’t it fun?
My coach is better than your coach
by letsgopsu on Apr 8, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
by Paige2PSU on Apr 8, 2011 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
a friend recently sent me a football she found in her basement. It is signed by the 91 Redskins (boo-yah Superbowl year!)
It was not stored properly so the signatures have faded but I have found Charles Mann, Daryl Green, Art Monk and other awesome heros. It won’t be worth anything due to the condition, but it was her husbands who died 2 years ago, so it is sentimental to me.
My coach is better than your coach
by letsgopsu on Apr 8, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
that was one of the first years I was a Skins fan, I was in 5th grade at the time and sang “Hail to the Redskins” on my elementary school morning announcements after the Super Bowl.
what a great item to have, both as a fan and on a personal level!
Fire Dan Snyder
by Cari Greene on Apr 8, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Growing up, we had family friends who employed Tim Johnson and DJ Dozier as summer interns and they spent a lot of time hanging out at their house for Sunday cookouts. My parents kept in touch during their post-PSU years and Timmy would give us tickets to one or two home games a year when he was with the Steelers, and later, the ’Skins.
I remember going to the Dallas/Washington game the year after DC won the Super Bowl. We sat in the family section in RFK and watched an Aikman fumble be recovered for the winning touchdown.
After the game my dad got a little mishandled by a security guard for taunting Jimmy Johnson as he walked from the media room to the visiting locker room. Timmy later came out and brought us into the locker room where we got pictures taken with Ricky Ervins, Gary Clark, Earnest Byner, etc. The most shocking thing however, was when Charles Mann emerged from the shower and began taking questions from reporters in front of his locker. Completely naked. As a 12-year old kid, it took years to recover from the blow that did to my expectations for growth in certain areas. Actually, it’s entirely possible I’m still recovering.
My memory was correct, Aikman fumble recovered by Danny Copeland to win the game 20-17.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199212130was.htm
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