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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

My response about the team to jtothep.


This just got to big to be a comment. Not that we need another post about this topic.

Where would you start?  Fixing the program?

Star-divide

The way I see it, the program has two pretty significant problems.  Honestly, I don’t know that either can be solved.  They kind of blend together, so bear with me.

The Penn State Basketball team has always been a red headed step-child.  However, it was a pretty cool kid when it was allowed to be itself.  Itself being a pretty decent mid-major program playing out of the Atlantic  10 Conference.   Think of it this way, take Butler out Hinkle Field House, put them in a Sterile Airplane Hanger that seats twice as many people as it needs too, run their coach out of town, put in them in the ACC, and 15 years later when they suck, tell me how you fix the problem?

Bruce Parkhill was a cool guy.  He was tall, good looking, funny and in many ways like a politician.  He remembered everybody’s name and made them feel like they were important.  Guy’s like that get laid. A lot.  But going back to the original point, Back in the 1990’s the team was alternative to the corporate monstrosity that was the football program.  Coach Parkhill took three or four guys to the Nittany Lion Inn after every game to a cocktail reception for boosters.  I remember one time, he hauled a kid who played for Vermont over there because he played such a good game.  At the time it cost like $200 to be a booster.

Success, Jerry Dunn, the Big Ten and the Bryce Jordan Center stopped that reception, it’s not practical anymore, but that’s how this program, to the extent it was ever good, was built.  The lights shine a little brighter in the Big Ten, and now maybe Coach Parkhill is a liability, so he “retires”.  Jerry Dunn is not Bruce Parkhill and he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.  The switch the Jordan Center was handled horribly and that rubbed a lot people the wrong way.  Also, the Jordan Center sucks, and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

So what happened?  Something that a small number of people were very passionate about, was lost, and replaced by some other thing that a larger number of people are indifferent toward.  How do you fix that?

You can’t quit the Big Ten, which has proved to be a terrible fit for the men’s basketball team.  We can’t realistically get rid of the Jordan Center.  While it’s often stated that Penn State has the resources, the simple fact is that no, really we don’t.  We don’t have a legacy of 300 NBA players we can get to front us a new coach.  We have to go to our boosters, who by and large don’t care (and who just gave at the office in the form of the STEP plan and PS we’ll be needing a football coach soon too) or are pissed off (and weren’t that kind of rich anyway, they were just people who lived in State College who needed something to do in the winter).

So we're a mid-major team, playing in a crappy building in the wrong conference.  You think a Point Guard is going to solve all those problems?  Nope, it will just make you forget about them until Navy steals your coach.

It’s sad to me, because I know a lot of really cool people who have played for  and/or coached the team.  I want them to have a program that they can be proud of, because they all gave a lot or time and effort in the process.  But dude, I’m just not sure that there is anything to be done.

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It had to be written and I commend you for it.

But, ugh. Thank God the Greeks invented wrestling.

"The more I get into politics the more I realize that I am a guitar player."

by ReadingRambler on May 24, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

it's homoerotic!

"Live a lie, and you will live to regret it"
James William Buffett Jr. 1988 (That's What Living is to Me)

by letsgopsu on May 24, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your dirty, intolerant mind is homoerotic!

"The more I get into politics the more I realize that I am a guitar player."

by ReadingRambler on May 24, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

jeez, calm down

this is a joke, and not a new one!

"Live a lie, and you will live to regret it"
James William Buffett Jr. 1988 (That's What Living is to Me)

by letsgopsu on May 24, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Publicity is like poison; it doesn't hurt unless you swallow it.
Joe Paterno

by tlrpsu on May 27, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barely fumbled!

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on May 27, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

9 out of 10 times, man...

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 31, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, first of all, my dander wasn't up yet.

Second of all, in all fairness to myself, it’s not a particularly good joke – freaking Devon got stomped on once for using it here.

"The more I get into politics the more I realize that I am a guitar player."

by ReadingRambler on May 25, 2011 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and not trying to bash you here, just wanted to post Governator's response to Devon, because it's still funny (Long subject line for ATO):
And for the love of god, BRO, never, ever, ever, use the word "bro" on here again. This isn’t a bar, a frat, or a locker room. And we’re definitely not hanging out with Tucker Max outside Cafe 210.

"The more I get into politics the more I realize that I am a guitar player."

by ReadingRambler on May 25, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

The reality is that to fix something,

you must exhibit at least a modicum of commitment to it, and that’s not happening in University Park any time soon.

Go Lions !! if

by Illegal Formation on May 24, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Also,

I’m rec’ing this despite the fact that jesse. uses two spaces after a period.

Go Lions !! if

by Illegal Formation on May 24, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s the sentence fragment paragraphs

that bother me.

Ridiculous.

Go Lions !! if

by Illegal Formation on May 24, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a useful device to stress certain points.

But where it’s over used it’s annoying.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on May 24, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the only way to go in

my sentencing.

Unsupervised children will be given a case of 4loco and a basket of kittens

by rahpsu92 on May 24, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

When did that happen, anyway?

I still use 2 spaces, FWIW.

Take a shower, shine your shoes...

by Adam Collyer on May 24, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Single space is the correct method according to my U.S. Gov. Printing Office Style Manual

Chapter 2, General Instructions
Paragraph 2.55
A single justification space (close spacing) will be used between sentences. This applies to all types of composition.

And it is the LAW
Extract From the Public Printing Law

Section 1105. THE PUBLIC PRINTER SHALL DETERMINE THE FORM AND STYLE IN WHICH THE PRINTING OR BINDING ORDERED BY A DEPARTMENT IS EXECUTED, AND THE MATERIAL AND THE SIZE OF THE TYPE USED, HAVING PROPER REGARD TO ECONOMY, WORKMANSHIP, AND THE PURPOSES FOR WHICH THE WORK IS NEEDED. (PUBLIC LAW 90-620, OCT. 22, 1968, 82 STAT. 1261.)

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on May 25, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

My take...

The practice of using two spaces after a period is a holdover from the days of lead type printing and the use of typewriters that used what are now considered “old” typefaces. Those who grew up in typing class from the 40’s through the mid-80’s learned the double space and had it beat into them. With new type faces and the advent of the computer, people began using a single space after the period thinking that it makes the text flow better. But it really depends on the fint being used. If the person is using an older font (Garamond for instance) then two spaces if better. Newer fonts can use one space.

But, since many people use two spaces because it was drilled into them, berating them for the practice is tantamount to disrespect for your elders. Back off…some day younger people will be condemning you for typing “LOL” and “LMAO”, etc.

"Careful, man! There's a beverage here!" The Dude

by RWReese on May 25, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Man my typing sux today

"Careful, man! There's a beverage here!" The Dude

by RWReese on May 25, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

With regard to LOL and LMAO...

they will condemn you AS THEY SHOULD! At least in all regards to communication not occurring on a postage stamp size screen.

I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD

by bconway6 on May 25, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I took my typing class around 1997-1998, on computers

and had the “two spaces after a period” beat into me then. I was on my school newspaper all throughout high school, and that’s how we did it on there, too.

Oh, well, live and learn. I doubt I’ll stop the two spaces but that’s interesting to note.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on May 25, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

it is hard to break, as it was beat into me in the '70's.

Luckily our desk to publishing people format everything I write in a tech manual.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on May 25, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I too learned typing around the same time

and had the two spaces beat into me. I had a friend (who works with this kind of stuff all the time) comment on it once, and when I asked she mentioned that both are acceptable, though a single space is preferred. I don’t really even notice when reading, and it just comes across naturally when I write, but I can’t understand how it even possibly bothers people when reading. It only helps break up sentences a bit better (in case you miss that tiny little .).

by The JuggerNitt on May 25, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

count today

as yet another time that BSD has sent shockwaves through my known universe

z button and now this, what’s next? Next thing I’m gonna find out is that the AD is looking at Bobby Knight, you know I DID see him at the corner room one time

by hbeach08 on May 25, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we're airing grievances about Ugly Errors

The worst out there, and my colleagues have already heard this beef, is the mistaken use of that when who should be used. Who refers to people. That refers to things.

Plenty of examples and explanations here.

It’s a freakin epidemic in sports writing these days and, for my money, makes the author sound far more ignorant and uneducated than a second space between sentences.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on May 25, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mine is than and then.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on May 25, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

But they could often be typos

and not grammatical errors. Using That instead of Who sounds really freakin ignernt.,

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on May 25, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never even thought about it until now. I refuse to waste space egregiously. You capitalist fiends are killing bandwith that doesn’t belong to you! It belongs to the state. Not to you!

"The more I get into politics the more I realize that I am a guitar player."

by ReadingRambler on May 25, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Using twitter

is about the only thing which makes me start to use the single space.

by The JuggerNitt on May 25, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just hope

that the hockey team does not face a similiar problem

I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

by psupride on May 24, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't be too concerned...

hockey is still small audience high passion game (for now pending on what dominoes may fall from the B1G hockey conference).

Things in favor of hockey vs basektball:
The arena will be smaller, more intimate, more interesting and less sterile in general than the BJC
TWO weekend games per home series rather than a single Tuesday night game
Being competitive with schools like Bemidji State and Western Michigan (solid mid-level programs) is easier than Illinois, Maryland etc.

I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD

by bconway6 on May 24, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

This place is better when your voice is heard.

Even your most defeated voice.

jtothetweet
"I am amazed that people still think apologizing in such a way as to make it clear that it was the victims who misunderstood is acceptable. I had hoped that the sorry-if-you-are-oversensitive school of apology would by now have been thoroughly discredited." - former Penn State & NBA player, John Amaechi

by jtothep on May 24, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I really liked that John Amaechi article.

I was only a kid at the time so I had no idea. But in retrospect, I wasn’t stunned. He was really cool. And impecably dressed.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on May 24, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't buy this Jordan Center is sterile crap

you know what looks exactly like the Jordan Center inside? The Pederson Event Center — right down to the color of the seats. Doesn’t seem to be hampering that building’s tenants any.

It isn’t the facility, it’s the people operating and using it.

by PSU Mudder on May 24, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions  

No way.

The Pederson Center is smaller, and the seats are more steeply inclined to keep you closer to game. The concessions are better, and there places to go before and after the game that you can walk too.

This one’s not even close.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on May 24, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

not even close

the biggest problem with the BJC is that the seats fan out from center court too much. It is an events center first and a basketball arena a distant second. It’s good for seeing a band, but bad for watching basketball unless you’re really close.

As the crow flys, I bet the furthest the any seat in the Pete is from mid-court is about half what the furthest seat is in the BJC.

If you’ve been to a lot of professional or small college basketball arenas, you can tell that the BJC sucks, but it’s hard to put your finger on it. But when you see it on TV, it’s clear. The seats are just too far away for a sport where being able to see the athletes up close is half the draw.

gone but not forgotten

by chicken cosmo on May 24, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

So, Is there anything to be done? is an open question.

Is it worth it to try to do anything? is an open question, too.

Penn State gets a pretty good return on investment in the basketball program. Spends little and generates a far amount of revenue, A lot of people seem to want the administration to spend more money on the basketball program. What if that extra cost doesn’t not generate any more revenue? What if, instead of the hoops program earning roughly $4 million for the university, it earns $2 million but the team is marginally better and makes the dance every five years instead of every ten. Is that worth it?

gone but not forgotten

by chicken cosmo on May 24, 2011 2:30 PM EDT reply actions  

As much as Iove winning, I do understand there is a financial component to this.

That being said, nobody really got too bent out of shape when the women’s basketball program was winning under Rene Portland and hemorraging cash. So what’s the difference if the men’s program runs a deficit if we’re winning?

by Ab4PSU on May 24, 2011 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

The trouble is turning a plus into a minus.

My guess is women’s basketball was always a minus. Oh, and Rene Portland got a chance to resign, otherwise she was toast.

Our rival is Stanford.

by jesse. on May 24, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a new thought on ED leaving and the fixing of the program.

One of the biggest, if not THE biggest mistake made in the past was when Dunn got the contract extension after making the dance. He had brought in hardly anyone worth playing for a couple years, other than Joe C’s brother, who immediately transferred when the season ended. Maybe Curley doesn’t want to make the same mistake and lock PSU into a coach for a longer term when he doesn’t really feel he is getting what he wants from the program. Maybe, just maybe, Curley and company made the writing on the wall in large enough type that you would have to see it and this is what they really want.

My grammer skills need improved.

by BMAN13 on May 25, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Move a couple of games a year to Rec Hall

I think the atmosphere there is unbeatable. Some other schools do it. Georgetown plays its home games at the Verizon Center, but they typically play one game a year in their on campus gym.

I couple games in Rec Hall could provide enthusiasm that carries over to the games in the BJC. It would almost be like spring training in baseball. The chance to watch a “big league” team in a small stadium.

by dontcallmescooter on May 25, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

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