Ohio State's Ray Small: "Everybody Was Doing It"
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 3:25 PM EDT
in B1G / BigTen
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PrintIf you read Nitt Links this morning, you probably already know former Ohio State player Ray Small opened up to the Lantern about NCAA violations committed while he was in Columbus. If you haven't, be sure to check out that link for the full story. Here's a quick excerpt of Small talking about Big Ten Championship rings, then deals on cars.
"We have apartments, car notes," he said. "So you got things like that and you look around and you're like, ‘Well I got (four) of them, I can sell one or two and get some money to pay this rent."
The wheeling and dealing didn't stop with rings. The best deals came from car dealerships, Small said.
"It was definitely the deals on the cars. I don't see why it's a big deal," said Small, who identified Jack Maxton Chevrolet as the players' main resource.
...
"(People say) ‘Oh you got a deal, it's because you're an athlete,'" Small said. "Playing for Ohio State definitely helps. But I know a lot of people that do nothing and get deals on their cars."
Small goes on to say that "Everybody was doing it" while he was there. Obviously, some in the Ohio State sphere aren't so sure. Reaction after the jump.
Johnny of Eleven Warriors thinks Small was a lone wolf in his indiscretion, citing a tweet by Chimdi Chekwa stating that "Everyone" does not include 95% of the roster. And I only say 95 cuz I can't be sure of what every one does." before saying this.
I completely agree with Chekwa here. The vast majority of OSU football players certainly take NCAA rules and regulations to heart. Unfortunately 5% of players not doing so is enough for the NCAA to jump on, especially now. It really doesn't matter if 95 players didn't take a car deal if 5 of them did and then got found out; that's still five major violations of NCAA rules, and one thing I think college football fans in general are going to have to learn is that the "it happens everywhere" excuse doesn't hold an ounce of water.
He's right. It doesn't hold an ounce of water. But neither does the claim he and Chekwa are making that 5% of the roster is the part causing all the problems. If you add Ray Small to the five players who were busted in January, that's already 7% of the roster out in the open about accepting improper benefits. Could they possibly be the only ones accepting stuff? I doubt it.
The problems at Ohio State are systemic. That, not the fact that it was the unfortunate school to have a small number of its players busted, is why it's in the trouble it's in and methinks that's why Jim Tressel went to the lengths he did to cover up Tattoo-gate. He knew that if news of major violations like those got to the media, it would open the floodgates and the truth would come out about the entire culture of corruption that exists at The Ohio State University.
Tressel is a smart guy. He wouldn't throw his entire reputation down the toilet to protect five players, a Big Ten title or a chance to win a BCS Bowl. He did it because, whether directly or indirectly, he knew there was plenty more out there that could be far more damning. We're seeing that now, and man, it ain't pretty.
If throwing Ray Small under the bus helps Ohio State fans feel better about that, so be it.
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To further add to the % issue
is that really there are only maybe at most 30 (and probably must fewer than that) readily identifiable players on the team any given year for whom these “discounts” are going to be widely available.
So now you have 7 players (there were the 5 named players and one unnamed, from what I recall), plus all the car dealership players (who knows how many extra can be added to the count). Even if we just stick with the 6 names we know, that’s still like 20%.
My 2 cents worth
1. I truly hate it when someone gets caught and their defense is, “Everyone does it.”
2. That being said, I have no doubt that a whole lot of them do it.
I believe that some of the issues can not be blamed on the University. The compliance people tell the athletes they can’t do certain things and no one can watch over the kids 24/7. However, in some (maybe many…maybe most) there is an attitude of being “above the law” and probably quite a bit of, “It’s chump change…they won’t even notice.”
"Careful, man! There's a beverage here!" The Dude
and a lot of that comes from when the university IS made aware of the transgressions
and doesn’t adequately punish the players. Especially bad is when the administration then fights to get those players eligible for the upcoming bowl game.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta think that part of it is on the university
I mean, that’s the type of attitude all their players have… it really speaks to the morals the school promotes.
Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.
You and I have very different definitions of systemic.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
by Semicorrect on May 26, 2011 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Do you think the OSU's problems are confined to Ray Small and the five guys from tat-gate?
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Which problems are you talking about?
Are you talking about tattoos specifically, or do you want to expand that to free cars, money handshakes, and every other accusation of wrongdoing out there? Do you want to include things that nobody’s even yet accused Ohio State of but will in the next few months?
Thomas, Adams, Posey, Pryor, Whiting and Herron sold memorabilia; Herron, Posey, Thomas, and Whiting got discounted tattoos; Jim Tressel repeatedly failed to report knowledge of Posey and Pryor selling memorabilia; in 2004, Troy Smith received a $500 handshake. This is what we know people in the program have done. If you want to add Ray Small selling memorabilia or getting discounted tattoos to the list, fine.
What else can you prove has happened? You can point at the speculation about players getting free or insanely discounted cars, which the Ohio BMV is about to discredit; you can point at the wild accusations Maurice Clarett made in 2003 that the NCAA decided were baseless; you can latch onto Brooks Melchior’s “journalism”, or the work of twenty other rumor mongers; you can feel, deep down in your gut, that Ohio State is getting away with murder, even that they laugh at other schools’ puny ideals of lawfulness and fairness and amateurism. You can be absolutely, 100% doubt-free that Ohio State must be guilty of something, even if you can’t prove what it’s guilty of. But what can you prove?
If you think that corruption is systemic at Ohio State, that it is a constant in the president’s office and the AD’s office and the compliance department and the boosters and the coaching staff and the vast majority of the players and the fans in general, so be it. You think OSU’s problems are systemic, and I don’t, but it doesn’t matter what you or I think. You are the prosecutor: what can you prove?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
"What can you prove?"
And that, in itself, is all I need to know about tOSU and its fans.
It doesn’t matter whether more players partook; it’s whether everyone else—the outsiders—can prove it.
Spoken like a habitual criminal enterprise.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
I suppose it's unreasonable for a murder suspect to demand proof of guilt.
It doesn’t matter whether or not the prosecutor can prove the suspect is guilty; it’s whether the accuser is pretty sure of it.
Spoken like a habitual [OVERWROUGHT DESCRIPTOR].
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
You're talking criminal court
This is a blog of public opinion, therefore it’s more like civil court
and I think the corruption that has lasted throughout the last decade (according to the testimony of the team’s own players) is enough to get a sympathetic decision.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on May 26, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't bother
That distinction is wasted on the stupid.
by kijana's acl on May 26, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not very nice.
You hurt my feelings.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
Not at all
People who don’t understand that innocent until proven guilty only applies to the government are always dumb.
by kijana's acl on May 26, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Damnit I may be late
but definite rec. If the average person judged those around him solely by what he could prove they had done in the past, he would be surrounded mostly by strangers and confusion.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on May 28, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
I don’t count Aziraphale amongst the stupid troll-y OSU fans.
Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.
That’s reasonable to treat BSD’s court of opinion like a civil court. It’s a lot easier to form the opinion that OSU is dirty that way. I don’t get some people treating Ray Small like he’s impeccable, or like he couldn’t possibly be telling the truth about some things, but one of the many things I get irritable about is treating a casually formed opinion absolutely.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
I still think all of this is just the tip of the iceberg
I could be completely and utterly wrong but only time will tell. Either O$U and its fans will be vindicated and it will be shown that these were just isolated events, or it will be shown to be a den of corruption. Either way, it won’t do anything to drastically effect the dirtiness of the current collegiate sports landscape.
"I want to be remembered as an ambassador of Penn State University. I want people to remember me not only athletically but for my character too. It’s important that I play well, but I want people to remember me for who I was as a person." ~Silas Redd
I really, really wish the NCAA had power of subpoena.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
What difference would that make?
O$U compliance wouldn’t find any documents until the local paper did a FOIA request and found the documents for them.
by kijana's acl on May 26, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which documents? You mean the car dealership stuff? You realize that there wasn’t actually anything going on there, right?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
uh, say what?
something sketchy is going on for there to have been over 50 players and family members of players (with a few coming from out of state) all buying cars from the exact same dealer (who then was for some reason placed on player lists to get into high profile games)
Maybe nothing “illegal” happened, but it definitely smells fishy. Heck, even if the paperwork shows that the players paid the full amount, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that Kniffin himself fronted some of the cash for the down payment. Instead of a booster handshake, the money gets laundered through the purchase of a car.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the link again to the WBNS story.
The compliance department was aware of the fishiness of Pryor’s traffic stops in nice cars, investigated and cleared it. When the BMV finishes its investigation, they’re going to re-investigate it because of the Dispatch story, even though the Dispatch story’s smoking gun (the $0 dollar car for Thaddeus Gibson) was tempered by a document showing a reasonable (YMMV) purchase price. After that, the NCAA is going to investigate it. What more can OSU do in regards to the car stuff?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
The records may all be on the up and up.
Doesn’t mean the situation isn’t fishy. I can’t imagine it is award winning personality that keeps getting the same dealer all the OSU player business (even after he switched dealers, which negates any possibility that the one dealership really just had universally good deals on cars).
Maybe it is something as simple as the dealer immediately offering the lowest price he can go on the cars, negating the need for the players to negotiate that price down, but even that could potentially be seen as an improper benefit.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s a possible explanation from the glorious/hideous Ramzy.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2011/05/buckeye-motors
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
that would have to be one heck of a referral
for me to convince my mom and brother to buy their car from so far away in a different state.
There are plenty of ways to bend the rules, especially in something as amorphous as used car prices. As I said, everything could be technically on the up and up, but the players also more than likely got some benefit out of all using the same dealer that can be explained away easy enough for them to try.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
My only question with anything you said is
how is $13k for a brand new car reasonable? Unless we’re talking about a Ford Fiesta or something.
"I want to be remembered as an ambassador of Penn State University. I want people to remember me not only athletically but for my character too. It’s important that I play well, but I want people to remember me for who I was as a person." ~Silas Redd
1. It wasn’t a brand new car. It was a year-old rental with ~10,000 miles on it.
2. As it turns out, it wasn’t the luxury line of that model like the Dispatch’s first report said but a normal model with leather interior.
3. He traded in his car (2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo) for $1,000 of trade value and apparently that also dropped the sales price of the Chrysler 300.
The question I’ve seen raised, and one that’s valid to raise, is how he got the money for the Monte Carlo, which he bought for ~$15,000 seven months earlier. Since that’s not a part of the BMV’s investigation, I hope OSU looks at that.
I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them so they can stay in school and graduate, where other people just get rid of them. I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban
that seems like a pretty hefty discount on a year old car with ~10k miles on it.
I am curious as to why he would trade in a $15k car purchased 7 months earlier for $1000 in trade in value (unless there was a typo somewhere, or I’m misunderstanding what you wrote).
by The JuggerNitt on May 27, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My understanding is that the listed trade value he got was $1000, but the price of the sale was knocked down by quite a bit more than that. So that’s something where the BMV will be looking to see if the dealership did that to avoid paying sales tax, but if that’s what happened, it doesn’t matter to OSU.
I don’t know how a car being used as a rental before being bought would lower the car’s value, but for now the Chrysler purchase seems plausible in my perspective.
I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them so they can stay in school and graduate, where other people just get rid of them. I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban
There is no sense arguing if you think 14 grand for same year used is "fair market value"
try to get that deal yourself. It won’t happen. In ’91 I bought a same year used Pontiac Grand Am for 9600. I was estatic, over 4 grand off of list and only 8000 miles. great car, great deal. Not near in the class of a Chrysler 300 in 2007.
My grammer skills need improved.
I’m pretty clueless about Blue Book value, but I ran a search here for a 2007 Chrysler 300 and a 2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo. The 300 with 10,000 miles was ~22K and the Monte Carlo with 20,000 miles was ~6K. I have no idea what the respective costs would have been at the time of the purchase, or how accurate my estimates were, but the 10TV article says the price of the 300 was about as low as it could go (but was still acceptable).
If you’re looking for funny business with the cars, there are fishier parts of the story than Gibson’s car. It’s because of the Dispatch’s initial emphasis on his car that his purchase is still the focus. (there is absolutely NOT a conspiracy in the media, but the first Dispatch story was kind of shoddy)
I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them so they can stay in school and graduate, where other people just get rid of them. I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban
I'll agree there are much more troublesome aspects to the car thing.
LIke all the families purchasing from the guy. Out of state people coming in and getting deals. That is the kind of stuff that makes me question what is going on.
My grammer skills need improved.
At least in the case of Maurice Wells’ mom, who lives in Florida, it turns out she didn’t actually purchase a car. IIRC the other family members involved still did.
I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban
by Semicorrect on May 28, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
If only these guys heard of
A/X/Y/Z Plan, they could have avoided it all.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
So dealerships routinely give purchasers vehicles to drive
on the assumption that the sale/paperwork will be completed at some point in the future?
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
I meant the Tressel e-mails to the attorney and Pryor's pimp, err, mentor
But you keep thinking the that the car situation is kosher.
by kijana's acl on May 26, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but
you’re missing my point. Throughout this process, the only time tOSU/tOSU fans have recognized improprieties is when the proof has been spelled out, Sesame-Street style, for them and they have no other choice but to acknowledge it. Anything less is called conjecture, speculation, or a witch hunt (and, quite frankly, even when it is clear, those same fans drop the “well, everyone else does it” or the “Jim Tressel is taking a bullet for his team” claims).
Whenever I see news drop, or claims surface, and the responses thereto, all I can think of is:
Buster: Mom is becoming a little controlling.
Michael: What tipped you off? When she locked you out on the balcony again?
Buster: That was half my fault. I thought I saw a Graham Cracker out there.
Michael: You baited the balcony?
Lucille Bluth: Prove it.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
by MainLion on May 26, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Get a warrant.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If tOSU owned a storage shed,
I’m convinced it would have been burned by now.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
Of course not.
We’re the bad guys.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
Exactly.
Just some printed Tressel e-mails that suggest moderate to heavy treason.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
Light treason is for wannabes.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
by Semicorrect on May 26, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don't think I implicated Gee or Smith
I’m talking about the football team, and as of right now, we’re aware of 6-7 players on a team of 85 that committed violations. I think it’s very shaky ground to argue they’re the only ones who’ve done anything wrong and members of a small minority who “don’t get” the rules simply because I can’t “prove” anyone else did anything wrong.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a bit of a tangent. I think you’re focusing too much on 95/5 quote. but based on what we know right now, it’s not too far off. By limiting the team to 85 you’re forgetting walkons, plus the 20 or so people who enter a program each year. On one team we’re probably talking about ~100 people and on a team the next year ~125. Right now, that percentage is pretty accurate, though if more information comes out it’ll increase.
I’m tired of all the crap being slung toward and from OSU. Wake me up when summer ends.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
So your argument is that it is just 5%
and we’ve been lucky enough to uncover all of that 5% in just a few months of looking? You’re a bit of an optimist, aren’t you?
by kijana's acl on May 26, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My argument is that we KNOW it is about 5% and have no idea about anybody else. Unless people are willing to start naming names of other players, I’m sticking to that.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
We KNOW it's 5%
We don’t know anything either way about the other 95%. But for people to seriously claim that the 5% we know about are the exclusive list of people doing something wrong is pretty disingenuous.
Given the information we have been given/have free access to, we can’t say for sure who else is doing something wrong or what the total extent is within the program. But as a decent songwriter once said “you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows”
This is starting to sound like the steroid debate from baseball a few years back.
No one knows the exact number of people that aren’t playing by the rules and it honestly doesn’t matter. All we know is that a number of players have been implicated and therefore OSU isn’t clean.
by VVeRPennState on May 26, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL, true
No longer is it even close to “we didn’t do anything wrong”, nor is it even the “everybody does” excuse. Now they’ve moved onto the next phase of, “well, only SOME of us have done wrong, but it isn’t ALL of us”
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it's been said already over and over...
but the small amount of respect I have for tO$U i quickly disappearing the longer they hold on to Tressel. Schools like Ohio State and USC and Michigan are supposed to stand for something. Why do we castigate the Wall Street people who help destroy our financial system while chasing the dime, and expect so little from our politicians who time and time again show how corrupt they can be, when the places where they go to college show such weak adherence to standards of ethical behavior? How can any institution allow someone who is a liar and is obviously morally bankrupt to interact with students? What do the students at tO$U learn from this? That if you lie (signing an official document) and get caught, as long as you can show your employer that you can continue to make money for them they will keep you around. How can parents feel okay with having their children being coached by such a morally bankrupt person?
"Careful, man! There's a beverage here!" The Dude
by RWReese on May 26, 2011 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I can't wait to see the hurting that gets laid on tOSU by the NCAA
The scope of this is just ridiculous and embarrasing for the B10.
From this day on I shall respect Rex. I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do. I shall be a champion of Freedom and Justice.
For me, the only embarassing part of this for the B10 and B10 schools
is that none of them are taking a stand for morality. I want to hear someone actually state how they feel. I want to hear Delaney flat out say that this entire fiasco has brought a cloud over our conference thanks to Ohio State’s lack of control, and lack of care to control their institution. I want to hear coaches not praise Tressel as a good man. I don’t mean they should attack him or say he should step down, but just say flat out that what he did was wrong, and has made a scar on the title of coach.
Why this might be the 100% best thing ever
Ray Small’s quote is a combination of TP:
“Everyone does. Kills people, murder people, steals from me, steals from you, whatever”
and Skins4ever:
“I AM A DIEHARD REDSKINS FAN, CAPS, LEAFS, AND I LOVE WATCHING TENNIS. SO WHATS THE BIG DEAL”
so yes, Ray Small wins
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by ckmneon on May 26, 2011 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
(Scratching my head)
Answer this one:
How can a guy poor-mouth about having to sell championship rings just to be able to pay his rent—-then have the nerve to talk about getting a good deal on a car.
Really? WTF kind of reality does that guy live in? Here’s an idea, don’t go buying a gD car if you can’t hardly pay rent for your apartment. Anyone who thinks this guy needed to sell rings to pay his rent is either naive, or just as big of a liar.
by rodney20 on May 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Depends on how good the car deal was
by newenglandnittanylion on May 26, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose...
if they were giving them away…with free insurance for a year…and free gas for a year.
How can OSU say "Everyone does" (as in rest of collegiate athletes)
but at the same time say only 5% does (as in OSU football team).
These percentages are all b*llsh*t anyway. Not a scientific consensus.
"Life is no way to treat an animal"
Because it's their way of saying that aOSU's program is actually super clean in spite of the allegations
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Different systems. Within Division 1-A of the NCAA, (virtually) every program has a major infraction to its name, making the corruption at the NCAA level. Within an individual program, “everybody does it” has to be “virtually everybody in the program”.
I recognize that Penn State and Stanford haven’t been cited for a major infraction— would adding “virtually” to “everybody does it” make you happier?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
virtually happier, yes ;-)
"Life is no way to treat an animal"
by Mr. Rosewater on May 26, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Distinction
Saying that virtually all schools have committed violations of NCAA rules is a lot different than saying that virtually all schools have a culture of aiding their players in obtaining and/or looking the other way as their players obtain special benefits.
That’s like saying virtually all U.S. citizens have been cited for the violation of a law in their lifetime. It might be true, but there are a lot of people who only have traffic citations on their name. I don’t think many people would take a serial killer crazy if he pursued this line of argument.
I agree that there’s a distinction between those two things. But primary and secondary violations, which EVERY school has reported, are not the same thing as major infractions, which everybody but Stanford and Penn State has reported. I also agree that there’s a difference between a program getting a major infraction and aiding and abetting behavior worthy of major infractions, which is what this argument seems to be focused on.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
Not that I think he is (COMPLETELY) lying/exaggerating,
but one must really relish the day that Ray Small becomes a credible source. Maybe Harold Camping was right? These must be the end times.
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
I don't know Ray Small
Seems like OSU fans are awfully quick to throw him under the bus, though.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
as they are with anyone who speaks out against OSU, Herbstreit, the basketball blogger.
My grammer skills need improved.
To claim that Ohio State fans did that with Mark Titus is in one word,
RIDICULOUS. We <3 Titus forever.
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
and you really aren't familiar
with the curious case of Ray Small’s tenure at Ohio State, are you? You kinda have to be to know.
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
Read it on Eleven Warriors
Tres gave him chance after chance, but my goodness, he still couldn’t straighten out.
by dontcallmescooter on May 26, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray Small was a malcontent throughout his OSU tenure.
He’s a miscreant who has reason to make Jim Tressel look bad. Basically, he’s not a credible source on anything (but he sure is a fun source for our purposes).
--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.
by Run Up The Score on May 26, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a double-edged sword, though
Yes, a malcontent is more likely to fabricate a story like this than other players are. But, a malcontent is also more likely to stop hiding the truth if a scandal is out there than other players with more to lose.
Ultimately, Small’s announcements aren’t likely to be very relevant to the NCAA case against OSU, unless he has documentation on his car deal that he can produce.
by newenglandnittanylion on May 26, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What's interesting...
…is that many current OSU players are raging against Small on Twitter, and who knows if that’ll lead Small to really let loose with both barrels.
Anyway, I’ll be over here with a big bucket of popcorn.
--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.
by Run Up The Score on May 26, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Once upon a time you
wanted high quality individuals on your team who went to class and would eventually become productive citizens. Now you hope they just don’t narc out their team mates.
Unsupervised children will be given a case of 4loco and a basket of kittens
by rahpsu92 on May 26, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
“I’m not mad, I’m proud of you. You took your first pinch like a man and you learn two great things in your life. Look at me, never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut.” – James Conway
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
by MainLion on May 26, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who's that?
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
by Paige2PSU on May 26, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
RE: his car
The Lantern obtained a police report from shortly after 2 a.m. on Sept. 18, 2007, when Small was arrested for a misdemeanor charge of driving with a suspended license. According to the report, Small was driving a 2007 Chrysler 300 that he told the officer he had just purchased. The vehicle had a dealer plate on it instead of a temporary tag.
Police then received a call from Aaron Kniffin later that morning, wanting to know why the car had been impounded. Kniffin, a salesman at Jack Maxton Chevrolet, told the officer the dealership “gives a lot of coaches and faculty cars and that Mr. Small’s family is purchasing the car,” according to the report. Kniffin told the officer that paperwork for the car had not yet been worked out.
Now, maybe he paid full price on that car, but considering he also claimed he had to sell memorabilia just to make rent…well I’ll let you put the pieces together.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
this scheme was so blatantly stupid. This could only happen in a context where players can leave after 3 or 4 years and probably never have to face the repercussions…well, unless you’re one of the guys who is currently in school when the house of cards comes tumbling down, that is.
This all makes Santonio, Troy Smith and co. look extremely lucky, and they’re still playing with house money.
I'll always love 'Tone for what he did for the Steelers in the 2008 playoffs
but look at what his story tells. He grew up in one of the poorest parts of Florida, admitted to growing up in poverty and selling drugs in his home town. Then he goes to O$U. Nice recruiting when there were plenty of SEC and ACC schools along the way to tempt him.
Holmes has been implicated in some improprieties in college and he was always expected to leave the Steelers for more money when his rookie contract was up before he was jettisoned in 2010. It appears to me that he was highly financially motivated and this fits in with the apparent culture at ohio state.
"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
How does a reputable dealer let a guy with a suspended license drive a freaking car off his lot.
What is the first thing EVERY CAR DEALER does when you take a test drive. Let me see your license. PERIOD
My grammer skills need improved.
it is obviously a very lenient dealership
I mean they also allowed the cross-state multi-day test drive.
by The JuggerNitt on May 27, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
How can anyone rationalize this crap as "okay, within the rules"
there is so much manure being spread the blogs smell like Mercersburg in April.
My grammer skills need improved.
This guy pretty much has it right.
But have your fun and all.
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
But tell me:
Should we believe everybody does it or not?
A sword and a shield?
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
"Everybody" means EVERYBODY.
So no, but like I said, I don’t think Small is (completely) lying/exaggerating here. He is just, to put in nice terms, an attention whore.
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
Everybody does it
at rates that are equal to or greater than the rate by which Ohio State players do it, which, by the way, is shockingly low.
Like I said to BMAN13,
you really have to be familiar with Ray Small’s “colorful” tenure at Ohio State. I don’t think you are…
Doug: "Why don't you tell him that your total salary last year was tweleve dollars?!?"
Arthur: "That was after taxes!!!"
You didn't have to be paying that much attention to know
that Small is not a guy to take at his word.
Now, because Small said it, doesn’t make it NOT true. BUT, I don’t think this is credible support for the idea that it went on. We’ll have to wait and see, because I do think more is to come here (that either shows the suspended players were an isolated incident or not). It’s too big of a story for more people to not prove or discredit.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Small, by himself, wouldn't be credible.
Small, combined with everything else, carries some weight with his story.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Think of the BOS/NY/PHL mafia, BOSS.
And the last round of a few hundred indictments. Even dirtbags can provide usable information.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
They certainly can.
But more so when it’s NEW information. Small is a guy with no credibility telling us that what we already know (selling memorabilia) and heavily suspect (car stuff) is all valid.
It’s too convenient. If he had something new to say, I would consider it. But really, he’s just regurgitating what we want to hear.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
or just regurgitating what happened
who knows
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Who does know.
All I can say for sure is that he is a bad dude with a reason to have a grudge against the school.
Listen, we know people sold memorabilia, thanks for nothing there. We know people got “the hookup” on tattoos, thanks for nothing there. If people got cars for absurd prices, there will be too much of a paper trail to not find out.
I can wait, there is no reason to insist on taking his word, it just isn’t reliable.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, so even if his story is completely bogus, then what?
It really adds nor detracts anything
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That's my only point.
That we should judge based on everything else, but this is too convenient from a source with no credibility. I’m not even saying his story is bogus, just that I need it to come from somewhere else. 2/3rds of it already has, and 1/3 either will or will be disproven.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, discrediting my position has earned you
a new desk location by the building’s public bathroom. The basket of paper towels and jar on your desk aren’t for show; you’re also in charge of petty cash.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
Yeah, like
I’m going to sit outside the public bathroom in this $5,000 suit. COMEON!
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Speaking of,
I also found your “program” on the computer. There’s no “U” in the spelling.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
by MainLion on May 26, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was an illusion
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess my whole point
was even if he was the most credible of sources, what he said isn’t really anything new, so basically “who cares”, and I don’t feel the need to worry about his credibility.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
this bus?
"Life is no way to treat an animal"
by Mr. Rosewater on May 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He said that everybody on the team did it.
So far, we’ve seen evidence that 6-7 players did the same stuff he says he did. If, say, Mike Brewster didn’t do anything wrong, that’s a betrayal of his teammate, or it’s an exaggeration which he should explain further.
Sorry for the dearth of humor. This image was posted about me once and it’s very accurate.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
for what it is worth
I don’t think anyone took Ray Small literally and thought that everyone, including the backup punter was doing it.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
"Ex-player Ray Small on Ohio State violations: 'Everybody was doing it' "
From USA TODAY and the Washington Post.
What will people who read the headline and not the story think?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
The same thing tOSU fans thought when they salivated over the USA Today statistics
painting PSU as a criminal institution.
Quite simply, this time around, tough shit.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
by MainLion on May 26, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What are you talking about?
What article?
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
My mistake--the SI/CBS piece from March or so.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
And, to pull a Rambler,
Any casual perusing of, e.g., 11 Warrior’s comments shows that many folks would rather look at the salacious summary than examine the statistics, as the writers here did. At the end of the day, all that is remembered is “State Penn” (but, curiously, not the hos at Penn State—RIP Biggie) and not how, by categorizing the occurrences as they did, the writers formed a conclusion and then attempted to support it.
So, coming full circle, my comment simply was a less than articulate way of saying “what goes around, comes around”. It’s stupid, it’s wrong, but it’s the American consuming public and the American salacious media.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
Oh, that.
Even then, Penn State wasn’t in the headlines, and I didn’t take anything away about any schools. The State Penn thing is based off all the arrests roundabout 2007, IIRC.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
I mean maybe I'm not like most people
but whenever I read something like, “everybody was doing it” I take it to mean that a significant non-zero number of people were doing it. Just like Pryor said “everybody does”, but I don’t actually believe that everybody steals, murders, etc. I think it is just a hyperbolic term that is thrown out there to sensationalize sometimes.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If it bleeds it leads. That's why my O$U friend
"I want to be remembered as an ambassador of Penn State University. I want people to remember me not only athletically but for my character too. It’s important that I play well, but I want people to remember me for who I was as a person." ~Silas Redd
yeah, really, bad boy, just like Clarrett. Can't believe these guys, they have an axe to grind. Lets believe TP-HE PAID FOR HIS TATOO tweet, lets believe this doesn't happen all the time at OSU when the coach e-mails a handler but not the compliance dept. Yeah, OSU=clean
My grammer skills need improved.
You can make it do more than one line,
you just have to hit enter twice at the end of the first line and put the @ in again.
Like
This
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
hit enter twice?
but what if I don't
want to
Ah, that’s what.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
I previewed it before I posted. That’s how I found out about the double-spacing!
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
I previewed it too (hence the "ah, that's what")
but posted as an example of what can go wrong when we don’t double enter (as opposed to double spacing after a . )
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I got that. Technically,
when your professors told you they wanted double-spaced papers, they weren’t talking about how many spaces after a “.” It was paragraph spacing. But this is BSD, so we can now draft a memo that, henceforth, double spacing refers to two spaces after a “.” and is a no-no (or not?); double-entering achieves the effect of the former double-spacing, and that if you are being sarcastic, you must use the sarcasm font (@ before and after the sentence or phrase, with double-entering after each line, but no double-spacing after the “.”).
If this is correct, I will post this memo in the fanshots for everyone’s review.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
just so you know
I will continue to flagrantly use the double spacing after a . (except on twitter in the instances where I must shorten down to 140 characters)
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Two spaces.
It’s about readability, people.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
I must correct the memo then.
Good thing the fanshot wasn’t finished yet.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
except apparently typographers have a standard
and that standard requires a single space after the . (except for even spaced fonts like courier, which coincidentally is the type of font used in our newly adopted sarcasm font)
I, on the other hand, don’t give a damn about that, and will use the double spaces as that’s just what my fingers naturally do now. I should probably find out if there is anything about this in the dissertation submission guidelines, though…
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that would be good.
APA formatting says one space (APA, 2001, p. 290).
American Psychological Association (2001). Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association, 5th ed. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.
This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.
I don't trust a single thing any of them says
as they’re all as looney as their subjects.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
One space
Two just looks bad.
Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.
you know what?
Your mom just looks bad. And so does your dad. And so do you! Doesn’t mean I still won’t use you whenever I feel like it, just like two spaces.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
With ML.
Two spaces.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
if the bluebook doesn’t specify, then there is no rule.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
"Everyone was doing it"
Totally rational excuse of widespread behavior when wildly accusing other programs of similar improprieties.
TOTAL BULLSHIT when Ray Small says it about his teammates.
--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.
by Run Up The Score on May 26, 2011 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
This, all schools do it but our bad boy is lying when says everyone on the team was doing it.
My grammer skills need improved.
I hope I don't come across as elevating Ray Small
I can’t comment on him in one direction or another. I just think it’s silly for EW to argue “HE LIEZ IT’S ONLY 5% OF THE PLAYERZ” when the math says they’re wrong regardless of whether anyone else gets caught.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
85 scholarship players + however many walkons + 20 departing seniors per year= 5% of the roster has ben proven to do it.
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
so we are probably somewhere between 5% and "everybody" (100%).
I say we average it and call it good. 52.5% of players it is!
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Gradulations on your 95% compliance rate!
"Live a lie, and you will live to regret it"
James William Buffett Jr. 1988 (That's What Living is to Me)
by letsgopsu on May 26, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My math.
Five players charged by the NCAA in tatgate+Ray Small=6 scholarship athletes on the 2010 team involved with this stuff. That’s 7%.
Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on May 26, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I'm talking about the logic of Ohio State fans.
--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.
by Run Up The Score on May 26, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You attack that
which may not exist? Bravo.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 27, 2011 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we just officially make the O$U slogan....
by Artiefufkin10 on May 26, 2011 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
win
Cory Geiger asks Paterno if talk about his future bothers him. "You bother me," Joe tells Geiger.
9 out of 10 times, EVERYONE does.
Wait a second…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 27, 2011 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
60% of the time...
Everyone does ALL the time
by Artiefufkin10 on May 28, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm taking joy in the morbid humor of Ray Small's most recent tweet.
SmallyMcfly Ray Small
The Media is the devil if people really think I said these unruly thing about the teamates that I love… Now I did tell them about myself
1 hour ago
-—
He regrets the way people took his comments! What a guy!
Ann Arbor behaves slatternly.
Don't worry
everyone on the team regrets it too.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 26, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda hope that his comments to the Lantern were tape recorded.
Then again, we already know how Tressel feels about lying.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Kicking Ohio State when they're down:
honorable? What would Joe Paterno do with this news?
gone but not forgotten
tell a story about when he first met Tressel back in 1974
that is remarkably lucid, and yet completely irrelevant to the current situation.
by The JuggerNitt on May 26, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Disregard it.
After all, Indiana State is the first game of the season and he needs to focus on them. They’re a heckuva team with good kids that play hard and are hungry.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on May 26, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
JoePa:
“Aw, gee, you guys…I don’t know. Listen, I’ve got a hundred kids here I have to keep out of trouble, I mean, look at everything going in on college these days. These kids, they come from backgrounds, and, do I think they should be able to get by? Yeah. But I got 100 kids here to look after I can’t really follow what other schools are doing, ya know?”
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
by mvrck on May 27, 2011 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Excellent
I can hear JoePa when I read that.
by dontcallmescooter on May 27, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
That damn picture.
Tressel suspended Small FOR THE WRONG GAME. FAIL.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 27, 2011 5:05 AM EDT reply actions
Small is right.
Everyone does. Kills people, murder people, gets free tats, cash handshakes, hookups on loaner cars, sells memorabilia, steals from me, steals from you, whatever.
by Tailgate Shogun on May 27, 2011 5:46 AM EDT reply actions
People can make a play on words with "everyone was doing it"
but if 5% of your team is up to no good you have a problem.
Of course if you’re Ohio State your only problem is your inferiority complex against Michigan to the point of where you’ll cheat to try to gain the upper hand.
How sad. No, no it’s not. It’s hilarious!!!!!
Sure, we're the ones with the inferiority complex.
brutus is our biggest rival! How dare you say you aren’t our rival?!?!?
I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them so they can stay in school and graduate, where other people just get rid of them. I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban
I hate the idea that a fan base can have an inferiority complex.
People have inferiority complexes. Those conditions extend to all aspects of their lives. I was pro sports championshipless between the C’s last title and the Pats win over the Rams. During that entire period I will still quite secure about my teams.
Now, I’m a phenomenal narcissist, but that’s a conversation for another day.
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 27, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't need double talk! You need Bob Loblaw!
Salesman: OSU compliance director called me ‘over 50 times’
"Doug Archie has called me well over 50 times," Kniffin said. "This year alone, I’ve talked to him 25-30 times. You can print out your Verizon (phone) bills; his numbers are right there calling me."
When asked why Archie, who did not immediately respond to voice mail messages, said he only spoke to Kniffin once and denied that the deals were approved by OSU compliance, Kniffin said, "That’s something you’ll have to ask him. I’ve got records of it."
Jim Lynch, of Ohio State media relations, told Sporting News: "There was a misunderstanding with the original Dispatch story. While Doug Archie did in fact only speak to Aaron Kniffin once while he was at the first car dealership he worked at, they spoke often when Mr. Kniffin changed jobs and moved to the second dealership he worked at."
This is politician-quality slicing the kielbasa thin.
"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"
by MainLion on May 28, 2011 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The Bob Loblaw Law Blog
Classic, and rec’d
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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