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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Salary Not Issue For Larry Brown, New Names In The Mix

A day after it was revealed that Tim Curley and Larry Brown discussed the Penn State basketball coaching vacancy, David Jones of the Harrisburg Patriot-News reports Brown wasn't worried about compensation in the event of a move to Happy Valley.

Terry Resnick, the Lower Paxton Twp. estate planner and longtime friend of Brown who set up the phone call, said Saturday, "Larry told me himself, 'It's not about the money.' He said all he needed was to know that the school was committed to the basketball program."

Jones also lists some new possible candidates for the job. Boston's Patrick Chambers, Milwaukee's Rob Jeter and former Bucknell coach Pat Flannery have all earned mention since the very beginning, but Jones hints that Tulsa head man Doug Wojcik, Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins and Arizona State assistant Scott Pera are among possibilities for the job. More about those new names after the jump.

Star-divide

Wojcik has been with Tulsa since 2006. He has yet to lead the Golden Hurricane to the NCAA Tournament, but has won 20 games in four of his six seasons as a head coach. This past year, Tulsa went 19-13 and won nine of its last 12 games on his watch.

Hopkins has been an assistant under Jim Boeheim at Syracuse since 1996. Wikipedia (hey, this isn't a research paper) says he was responsible for the recruitment of Gerry McNamara and has been rumored to be a possible successor for Boeheim in the past.

Pera appears to be a popular man in the BSD community. Before his name even surfaced in connection with the job, a fanposter here mentioned him as a good choice. Our own NGameday11 also profiled him over on his blog, Victory Bell Rings.

After an impressive stint with prep and high schools, Pera joined the Arizona State staff in 2006 as the director of operations. Pera immediately became an important member of the staff and was key in the recruitment of  James Harden and Derek Glasser. Since then Arizona State has seen success on the recruiting trail and in return Pera was promoted to recruiting coordinator in 2008. While Arizona State struggled to win last season, Pera’s addition to the Sun Devil’s staff in 2006 was a key part of  three straight 20+ win seasons and Top 5 finishes in the Pac10. Pera’s background in teaching and development of young athletes has helped elevate his status to one of the top assistants in the nation.

Hope everyone is having a nice holiday weekend. Stay tuned. We'll keep you posted.

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There are various reason I wanted to drink tonight

I have found another.

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
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by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Tim Curley's office line

Call 814-865-1086 first thing Tuesday morning. Express your feelings about turning down one of the ten best coaches in the history of the sport in favor of these yahoos.

by happyvalleytom on May 28, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Bob Knight?

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on May 28, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Penn State got the 3 - 0 green light and popped it up.

I know, I’m using a baseball metaphor to describe PSU basketball but what the heck.

I still don’t necessarily put this on Curley, but whomever made the decision screwed this one up IMO. Maybe they’ll get an up-and-coming mid-major coach, but Brown would have put the program on the map and at a minimum would have created some buzz among the fans and students. With a well-chosen successor this could have been a great path to take.

by CvilleLion on May 28, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Curley might think this is baseball.

So keep it up.

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Larry Brown is many things.

Penn State material is not one of them. Curley didn’t want the only coach in history to cause a reigning champion to be banned from posteason play the following? Shocking.

BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh and also, he bailed on them after the recruiting violations

that caused the ban.

So, basically, everyone wants the basketball Pete Carroll? No thank you.

BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look

I’m all for keeping Penn State’s reputation intact, but I think holding 20-year old violations over a guy’s head to keep him from even getting an interview is a little extreme.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 28, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

20 year old violations is one thing.

Getting a program a ban and bailing is another.

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by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

And also,

let’s keep in mind that it is his most recent experience in college. 20 years or not. He was in his late 40’s and had been coaching for years. It’s not like he was some ambitious young head coach who has a history of running a clean NCAA program since then.

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by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean like that time Joe pooped his pants.

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe is OUR head coach.

What the fuck is the matter with you for bringing that up?

That has to be embarassing for him, and you mention that?!? If you want to debate whether or not he should retire or any of his mistakes in relation to running the program or how he represents the university, that’s fair game. To mention that is hitting below the belt and you need to get a life.

by Ab4PSU on May 28, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easy, big fella.

It’s a dig on opposing schools fans who, whenever looking for a cheap insult or pun, mention it.

"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"

by MainLion on May 28, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know what is going on

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is when sarcasm font comes in handy.

This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself.

by Paige2PSU on May 29, 2011 8:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Woody choking the Clemson player has had traction for 33 years; I will never, ever forget JoePa running across the field between plays after pooping himself, ever.

However, I promise to have the decency to not to bring it again up unprovoked

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 28, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a difference between having an intestinal problem

and not having the self-control to keep from hitting someone. If I couldn’t control myself, I’d be knocking somebody senseless about every other week.

by Ab4PSU on May 28, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I will never, ever forget JoePa running across the field between plays after pooping himself, ever."

How do you know he actually pooped himself? Have you seen the skidmarks? What can you prove?

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on May 29, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I think he pooped himself. I can’t prove it. I guess that makes me a bad person :(

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 29, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shouldn't be a tough concept for you guys to grasp...

So what? Joes pants are full of poop. Your coach is full of $hit.

by Artiefufkin10 on May 29, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If nothing else, Coach Tressel has verbal diarrhea.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 29, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"I guess that makes me a bad person :("

Not really, I’m just making fun of something you said earlier. And also challenging the idea that JoePa pooped himself. Yeah he ran off the field, but maybe he got there in time. Everyone has to hustle sometimes, it’s just not usually in front of 100,000 people and millions more on TV.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on May 29, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I know you’re referencing that thing earlier. I have no idea if it happened on the field or if he did it later, but the fact that he changed his pants at half-time leads me to believe it happened.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 29, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also remember the reports around that time that he had the flu, which makes it excusable. The irony of the situation is that nobody would have known if he had just stuck it out until half-time and not run across the field.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 29, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are correct about the flu.

I would say people probably would of noticed he was pacing the sidelines after soiling himself. It’s not exactly an easy thing to hide.

by lion09 on May 29, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

For a guy who won't believe tOSU committed violations until he sees black and white proof,

you should be experiencing cognitive dissonance now. But, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were not.

Dilbert 1999/09/08

"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"

by MainLion on May 29, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

totally agree with Foog on this

It was so long ago, Foog was +1 years old and Selena Gomez was -2 years old.

But seriously – AND SERIOUSLY – Larry Brown may be 70, but it would be good for the program if we just had 5 – 10 years with him.

"Life is no way to treat an animal"

by Mr. Rosewater on May 28, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

When's the last time Larry gave anybody 10 years? Or 5 for that matter?

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on May 28, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

I can't help but feel like that would be compromising our values just because

we are desperate for a good basketball team. Using the same analogy, I wonder if 20 or so years from now we would be ok with Carroll coaching the football team when there was an opening. I know it requires a difficult assumption that he would need to have sustained NFL success, but I have a feeling that the fanbase would cry out against it. We can’t start holding the basketball team to a different standard just because we are dying for “a winner”.

BSD Wentworth
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*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not everyone is Joe Paterno.

I agree with you in that I don’t think Penn State should compromise it’s reputation to win in basketball. We’re not talking about Kelvin Sampson here, though, we’re talking about one of the 10 best basketball coaches in the history of the game that messed something up 20 years ago.

If you want to say he’s too old, fine. If you want to say you want a long term option rather than a band-aid, fine. Saying Penn State is too good for Larry Brown because his program committed an NCAA violation 20 years ago sounds holier-than-thou.

Keeping a clean reputation is about more than one guy. It’s a cultural attitude at the school. I’m betting what happened at Kansas was more acceptable at Kansas than it would be at Penn State. Plus, the man is 20 years older and has nothing to prove.

I don’t think it compromises PSU’s values one bit to at least give him an interview.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 28, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree to disagree then.

What you call an NCAA violation, I call a coach who coached I believe 10 seasons of college and had a title game appearance vacated, and a later and different team banned from postseason play. If I sound holier-than-though for being upset about getting a team banned in your most recent college season, a second major sanction in your short college career, then so be it. But I am not ok with the 20 years ago excuse when there have been 0 years of oversight by the NCAA since the last major violation. If we are ok with a shady coach because he can win, then I think we need to be honest with ourselves.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there some missing evidence out there that Larry Brown can have success in college basketball without committing NCAA violations? I’d like to see it because the two things seem to go hand in hand to me.

by Laaaaazzz on May 28, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The one offseason month

where he coached Davidson doesn’t do it for you?

BSD Wentworth
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*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

I think there is a difference between saying “Everybody does it” and “we can only hire monks to coach our teams”

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Monks?

Can we be rational here? He coached two college programs. Both had major violations where the NCAA had to step in and either vacate or ban. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here.

BSD Wentworth
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are a Bruins fan

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 29, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm also a Pats fan.

And if Joe retired, and BB wanted to interview, I would absolutely be opposed to it. I love him as a pro coach, but he does not have the values I want in my college coach.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I mean, if John Calipari were suddenly to become available for our HC position and express an interest in it, would people on here be pissed off if Curley politely refused to interview him? I doubt it, most would laugh at the idea of Calipari coaching at PSU because he’d be a terrible fit.

Larry Brown might not carry quite the same sliminess aura, but it’s still there and he had major NCAA violations at the two places he coached at – places you could arguable win without cheating, mind you. It doesn’t seems odd to me at all that PSU wouldn’t want anything to Larry Brown, even to the degree of simply interviewing him

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, 5-10 years?

Good luck with that. If Brown stayed 2 we’d be lucky.

by Tailgate Shogun on May 29, 2011 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am a big Brown fan and loves how he coaches...

…but he would be out after year two, maybe makes it to year three. He has been in pro ball for too long and would burn out trying to recruit at a program that, for all purposes, doesn’t have the selling power that a traditional national power does.

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m all for keeping Penn State’s reputation intact, but I think holding 20-year old violations over a guy’s head to keep him from even getting an interview is a little extreme.

Perhaps, but the reality is that since he coached at Kansas his college experience has been… nothing. If you are going to support the idea of Brown due to his distant history of college success, then you have to accept what else happened while he was a college coach.

I still firmly believe that not being interested in Larry Brown is an eminently defensible position. And if you aren’t interest in him, I don’t see the point in going through a sham interview process. It’s just better to be upfront and that sounds like what Curley did. Hard to blame him for that IMHO.

by Laaaaazzz on May 28, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can't just look at his college coaching career.

20 of professional basketball head coaching is a lot of experience. Sure, there are differences in the games, but if there’s anyone that can make the adjustment, it’s someone that’s been around that long.

Are you telling me that a prerequisite for any head coach should be recent head coaching experience? I don’t buy that one bit.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 28, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not the point about the time gap.

The point is that when you coach in the pros, you don’t have to follow NCAA rules. So the last time he had to . . . he got a program banned. The time before that . . . he had wins vacated. If that had happened at UCLA in 2005, and Kansas last season, how would you feel? To me, it’s the same thing, because it is both the most recent and only comparable experience he has.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Things change in 20 years

Including the way people go about things.

And as has been said already, clean programs are a cultural thing, and are about more than individuals.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

So if in 18 years or so, Pete Carroll has had incredible

NFL success (suspend disbelief) and he wants to interview here, you will feel that he changed during that time and that the PSU culture will keep him in line?

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, they are cultural things. Part of that culture is avoiding hiring people who are going to cause problems. So, when one of them comes up, it makes sense to avoid them. Like PSU has done in this case.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Whatever

No one is going to say anything different.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know what you mean here. I think PSU didn’t interview Larry Brown because they weren’t interested in Larry Brown. I don’t see how it speaks to anything bigger about how the basketball program is viewed or run by the athletic department.

And, quite frankly, I find it pretty defensible to not be interested in Larry Brown.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it's really about individuals.

Sure, it’s a cultural thing, but that has more to do with who is hired in the first place.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

who says that the recent head coaching experience line

wasn’t just Curley’s polite way of saying, “thanks, but no thanks, you are old and a known cheater. We don’t need that here”?

by The JuggerNitt on May 29, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm on board with this line of reasoning.

Also, Brown wants to hang around for a year or two and put his own guy into the head coaching job. If I was Curley, I wouldn’t make that deal either.

Brown’s NCAA compliance history is NOT irrelevant here. PSU isn’t going to take a chance on flushing its image for Larry Brown and his handpicked successor. Debate the merits of that all you want, but that’s how the athletic department operates.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course you are.

You’re a blogger.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t doubt Brown’s ability to coach in college and win games. I think he’d do excellent in that regards.

I doubt his ability to run a clean program and PSU’s ability to effectively oversee and control him in doing so.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was a prerequisite last time.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't tell me, call Tim Curley on Tuesday morning.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you so much for pointing this out

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on May 28, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He said all he needed was to know that the school was committed to the basketball program."

And then Tim Curley wasn’t showing interest in Larry Brown.

He, it’s not like the other names out there aren’t good ones, at least.

I AM PHIL DAVISON AND I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR MY TONE TONIGHT

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on May 28, 2011 7:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy hell....

Considering how much we are scutinizing the hypothetical coaches that could replace Ed for a sport we generally suck at, this is going to be 1000x worse when it’s Joe’s turn

by Artiefufkin10 on May 28, 2011 7:38 PM EDT reply actions  

This just goes to show you why Ed left.

Maybe Ed could have had better results if the school would have been committed to basketball. Maybe.

It is debateable about Larry Brown because of past NCAA violations. But to at least not interview him or consider him after he expresses interest when you look at his history, reputation, and record shows that Penn State doesn’t give a shit about basketball.

Maybe we shouldn’t care either.

But I’ll say this much: The money grabbers that are Spanier and Curley had better be damn careful. If they handle the transition from Joe to the next coach the way they’ve handled the basketball program, that 110,000 seat stadium will have about 47,000 people in it. Unless they start giving tickets away. And since they love money so much, if that football team sucks, that university will be poorer than a third world country.

by Ab4PSU on May 28, 2011 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

But they're diving into a pool of cash

And laughing at us as they do it

I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington

by LegalLion on May 28, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I bet there are third world countries

That treat their athletic teams better than the administration treats men’s basketball.

I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington

by LegalLion on May 28, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Iran tortured their soccer team

so yes, Iran cares about soccer.

"Life is no way to treat an animal"

by Mr. Rosewater on May 28, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're saying they're about even?

I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington

by LegalLion on May 28, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. Curley is worse than Iran.

At least Iran cared.

To me, apathy is worse than hatred.

by Ab4PSU on May 28, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apathy is death.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
Donna Noble has left the library. Donna Noble has been saved.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 29, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends. Were they ever forced to move practice to accomodate Jon al-Jovi?

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can't debate that they have not supported this team.

No one would argue that they have. But it is also a giant leap in logic to say that the only reason they don’t want to deal with this guy is because he “demanded” they support the team. They showed him the respect he deserves by talking to him. They don’t owe someone with a checked NCAA past anything more.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is debateable about Larry Brown because of past NCAA violations. But to at least not interview him or consider him after he expresses interest when you look at his history, reputation, and record shows that Penn State doesn’t give a shit about basketball.

Or maybe it simply shows they don’t give a shit about Larry Brown.

by Laaaaazzz on May 28, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we all imagine.....

what it will be like whenever Joe goes….Consider the coach from East Podunck Jr. College because he is a good guy vs. Tom Bradley vs. Shorty Miller’s great grandson vs. a name coach like “Greg Gatusso” vs. the guy who comes cheap and like Guido’s music choices vs. JayPa vs. my High School coach, etc. and so on….if you think this is a real circus, just wait until it’s reality vs. perception.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.

by DerryPharmer on May 28, 2011 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Can I just say?

I never imagined the day I’d be picking a picture of Larry Brown and Michael Jordan for a BSD post.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 28, 2011 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I do think Curley will look at his other options and realize how stupid it would be to let this opportunity pass without doing anything, but this would not be very confidence inspiring were I a fan. Sorry. Tee-hee.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 28, 2011 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you a Jeannette Fan? Sorry, Har, har har deehar har.

"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.

by DerryPharmer on May 28, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry about that. That turned out more dickish than I wanted to be. I’m incredulous that Curley isn’t going to interview Brown, but because I don’t have a personal stake in the program’s success it’s silly instead of inducing hair-pulling.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 28, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he wasn't a Jeanette Fan when he worked at the first car dealership, but at the second, he was a huge fan.

Silly Dispatch always getting confused.

"Sixty feet of bridge I can get almost anywhere. Schmuck!"

by MainLion on May 28, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stop turning his words around

Now that the celebration's over, lets go beat Ohio State--Joe Paterno

Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Victory Bell Rings and Black Shoe Diaries

by Ben Jones on May 28, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't spent much time on here lately.

Who are you a fan of? If you’re not a Penn State fan, why are you here?

by Ab4PSU on May 28, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's our resident Buckeye

we are decidedly cool with him, because he tends not to be a d-bag.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on May 28, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, you still get d-bag behavior 5% of the time, but it’s not systemic.

I think the innuendo out there is that I'm just picking and choosing which guys to run off, and people bring it up that I've medical-ed more people. Well, yeah, I medical them...I don't make those decisions, either. The doctors make them, and we have great doctors." -Nick Saban

by Semicorrect on May 28, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you're not at 5ish% d-bag, you won't last long at BSD

More than that gets banned. Less than that gets eaten whole.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on May 28, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not going to say anything groundbreaking here but bear with me…

I like Larry Brown. I try to be a Sixers fan and the teams he had in Philly were a blast to follow. I think he is a great guy and would have success no matter where he would coach and no matter what level. I think the NCAA sketchiness in his past was a major factor in him not getting a shot with us but Curley made the right move not making that public.

The other factor, and one that is purely speculative, that I sense is that Curley feels he would be giving up his power and have no control over Larry Brown. People would be so gaga over seeing him on the bench that the morals and values that make PSU so special would be so easy to dismiss. Curley obviously likes having control and for all of his failures he doesn’t ever seem afraid to make it pretty clear he is the one making the calls. Therefore I don’t think he makes any decision without a lot of thought. If he brings in Larry Brown it will never really be his decision. It will always look like it was set up by outside influences, then LB will bring in his successor and the future is that much more out of his hands.

I don’t know if thats right or wrong. One thing I do know is that despite the fact that he may appear to be pretty boneheaded most of the time he at least takes control and sticks by his principals. Again, the jury is still out…

by phanatic's phloozies on May 28, 2011 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

A really interesting perspective.

Let’s say Joe is HC for 3 more years. Add Brown to that and what does Curley have a say over? Hockey is Pegula, football is Joe, basketball is Brown.

A fresh perspective and good thought.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 28, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like it

From this day on I shall respect Rex. I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do. I shall be a champion of Freedom and Justice.

by psu on May 29, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again.

Are we forgetting Tim Curley hired Ed DeChellis?

It shocks me that so many smart people are holding him up not only as a man of principal while watching his terrible basketball team nurse a 43% margin, but a man that belongs in control of important things. The only sports he’s ever had control over are basketball and some of the Olympic sports. Russ Rose predates him. The wrestling boosters forced the hire of Cael Sanderson. Battista runs the hockey program because Pegula wanted him to. Paterno runs football

The crown jewel of Curley’s tenure is Coquese Washington after he allowed the Renee Portland fiasco, and Washington still hasn’t made it to a Sweet 16.

I will never understand why the man has the support he does from some people.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 28, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are successful,

we just aren’t VA Tech ELITE!

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo. We have had tremendous success at athletics at PSU. And we have been, by all reports, the epitome of “doing things the right way” in the process. How one couldn’t give Curley at least some credit for that is kinda mind boggling to me.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who has he hired that he wasn't forced into hiring?

Erica Walsh?

BFD.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where, exactly, did I say Penn State wasn't successful in sports?

Did you read my comment at all?

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. You asked how someone could support him.

Easily. We’re successful, despite your dislike of how he runs the basketball program.

by Tailgate Shogun on May 30, 2011 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Culture predominates

I believe that coaches will fit the culture. Here is a guy with some smirches on his record. I really believe that his salvation would be to work in a system that dictates control. Think about it…you have a job and are great at what you do. It is a loose system and the culture has always had some slack in it, so unfortunately you run it loose, and let a few things slide. Eventually you are caught and released. Now what? No one wants you, although you have more than abundant skills. Wouldn’t you want a shot to redeem yourself? To know that you can do what you do the right way? I really believe that if Coach Sweater Vest were in the Penn State system, he would not have allowed Tattoogate to happen. Think about yourself, if you know the expectations; are you more willing to rise to the occasion? Do you believe that people want to do the right thing?

by mwb124 on May 28, 2011 11:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I think I have a story that is relevant

My cat is named Larry Brown, and at the time we named him I had literally no idea who the Larry Brown was. I just thought it was a funny name for a cat. Then one day I’m calling to make an appointment for Larry to get his shots and the vet lady is like “Larry Brown huh? he’s a good coach” and I’m like “yeah uh… he is…” …akward silence… I didn’t know what she was talking about. Then I googled and LOL’d. I really don’t know anything about basketball.

I can’t help but wonder if this situation is similar to what happened to Curley this week.

by millzners on May 29, 2011 12:12 AM EDT reply actions  

I am guessing Curley turned on ESPN

and saw the Lakers hired Mike Brown. Then he thought “now wait a minute, if he is coaching the lakers how will he have time for us?”

by Milne4heisman94 on May 29, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe Curley turned down Larry Brown

because he already had an interview scheduled with Phil Jackson at the same time?

by The JuggerNitt on May 29, 2011 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

are you a Cowboys fan?

There’s no way you’re a Steelers fan with a cat named Larry Brown.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on May 29, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest I don’t have an NFL team, I was raised on Penn State and not any NFL team. But if I did have a team, it would probably be the Bills. I want to pick an NFL team in the dumpster, suffer along with them for years, and then when they’re good again no one can call me a band wagon fan. Plus their QB is like a bearded McGloin, only he graduated from Harvard.

by millzners on May 29, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

right

they were becoming PSU: Buffalo campus for a while there. Poz, Maybin, and Bryan Scott

by The JuggerNitt on May 29, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow really?

My reasoning for liking the Browns is I was born into it and there’s NO WAY OUT.

Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe.

by WorldBFat on May 29, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well theres more to it than that

When I started watching football was when the patriots played the Pack in the superbowl. somewhere around ’96 i believe. All the cool kids were Packers fans cuz of this one kid being a die hard pack fan. as the social outcast i picked the patriots. i continued to follow them but my group of friends didnt follow football so the other guys didnt know i liked the Pats. Well when i got into high school I was in things with the other guys more. Wouldnt ya know thats when the Patriots were cheating winning alot of games and super bowls. i was ridiculed as a band wagon jumper. It got so annoying I was just like “your right, I am. cuz my favorite team is the browns”. especially since I go to Clarion and everybody is nuts for the Stillers. and the Browns have Peyton Hillis.

by Milne4heisman94 on May 29, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This clears up everyone's questions.

Curley thought your cat was asking for an interview.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Needs grammared...
…Bucknell coach Pat Flannery have all earned mentioned

Say now, vontz, throw the cow over the fence some hay. Are you lining up for a job at the Ephrata Review?

by Pentimental on May 29, 2011 1:21 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Larry Brown

Why would PSU be interested in a coach who has a reputation for not developing/getting along with young talent? In the NBA, he was loathed to play rookies and as the Olympic Team coach, he failed to utilize his young talent, namely Carmelo Anthony.

Larry Brown may be the most overrated basketball coach ever.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 29, 2011 8:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Disagree

He is a great coach, but awful at the NBA level in drafting talent. He does struggle utilizing young players, but if you look at the 00-01 Sixers, outside of Iverson, and an aging Mutombo, that team flat out horrendous. I mean they battled the “unbeatable” Lakers in every game with George Lynch, Todd McCullough, Tyrone Hill, Aaron McKie, and Eric Snow.

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's had some great..

seasons, but he is not a great coach. He won a title with Kansas, the 00-01 Sixers, and the Pistons team that won a title. That’s 3 “great” seasons, though the Eastern Conference was terrible in 00-01.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 29, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not in the Larry Brown @ PSU camp...

but his collegiate record speaks for itself, winning 75% of games (and yes for the sake of the argument, I am going to ignore the sanctions). He even got the Nets (pre-Kidd) and the Clippers to the playoffs. As much as I may disagree about how he drafts and plays rookies, the guy knows how to build a team to win as well. I think that is part of the draw of LB as well.

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

He won...

75% of his games at UCLA and Kansas. Bill Self has about the same winning % and he stinks as a coach. You get great players when you coach at blue blood programs. Almost any fool can win 3 out of 4 coaching at one of those places. No young player in his right mind would go play for him. He does not develop talent.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 29, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again,

I would rather see Chambers or the asst from ASU, as the next PSU coach, but my point is that he does a great job with less, gets teams to play together, and with his name alone he could get talent from Philly and NYC that State College has never been able to mine before. Yes, Kansas is Kansas, and yes Bill Self sucks, but to discount the fact that where ever he goes he wins is ridiculous. And I think you are selling the 00-01 Bucks, Pacers, and Raptors short. /scarcasm

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he gets..

that much talent to come to State College. If I’m recruiting against him, I hammer home the fact that he couldn’t get along with Melo, Lebron etc. when he coached the Olympics. Also, he does his best when he coaches talent selected by others. When he gets involved in picking his players, he struggles.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 29, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that is a fair point,

but if you are a kid looking to get to the NBA, who better to get you there than a guy who has been a winner at that at that level and has the the ring to prove it. Again this is all moot because it isn’t going to happen, but it’s a great discussion.

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 11:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Plus

the biggest issue with that bronze medal team was that he didn’t get to pick his team.

by PSUfanDuff on May 29, 2011 11:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Had he picked the team..

they wouldn’t have medaled. Coach K seems to be doing fine with the same core of players.

I’ll give Brown credit for the NBA ring he won, but that Lakers team imploded because Kobe kept shooting instead of getting the ball to Shaq. The Lakers lost that series more than the Pistons winning it.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 30, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The '04 team

Had no outside shooting and no one that could create as well compared to the ‘08 team. They were also bigger and slower. In ’04 you have an aging Iverson and Marbury who were both inconsistent if not flat out terrible from outside. Young LBJ, Wade, and Anthony struggled and settled for contested jumpers against European defenses. And the bigs, Duncan, Stoudemire, Boozer, Okafor, were too slow or were busy picking up quick fouls against more agile 4’s & 5’s. Four years later you get a more mature “big 3” with the addition of guys who decided to take the summer off in ‘04 (Bryant, Kidd) along with guys who weren’t eligible for the team (Williams, Paul, Prince, and Howard) and shooter Redd. You basically have a completely different and mature team that is more prepared to face European style of play.

I will say that I wasn’t a big fan of Brown after he left Philly, but he flat out out-coached a future Hall of Famer in Phil Jackson in that series and forced outside and contested shots by the Lakers with a great inside gameplan.

by PSUfanDuff on May 30, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brown...

gets way too much credit for “out coaching” Phil Jackson in that series. That made him about 1 for 100 against Jackson. Kobe lost that series because he wouldn’t get the ball to Shaq.

Brown failed to utilize Melo, Wade, and Lebron in that Olympics and failed to adjust to the Euro style of ball. Melo had the offensive game to dominate in that setting, yet Brown snubbed him.

I am epic win.

by Esteban d' Amur on May 30, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

We will have to agree to disagree,

but good debate though

As an 8 year old boy meeting JoePa:
Me: Coach, I really am a big fan of Penn State
Joe: Glad to hear that
Me: I am also a big Notre Dame fan as well
Joe: Son, you can only be a fan of one or the other, not both. Make sure that you pick a winner.

by PSUfanDuff on May 30, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Terry Resnick, the Lower Paxton Twp. estate planner and longtime friend of Brown who set up the phone call"

That’s right, Lower Paxton Township. LP Baby! We got the juice! Reppin’ Karns’ donuts and Lio’s Pizza!

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on May 29, 2011 9:09 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

#LowPax4Life

Or until I move to Hershey.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I grew up off of Blue Ridge Avenue

If I was you I would immediately go get a Lio’s Italian sub. Or a Pizza Steak. Best sandwiches on Planet Earth.

You should check out Shake Down BBQ out by the race track. My friend owns the joint and it’s excellent BBQ. Best in the area since there has never been good BBQ in the area.

"I don't want to injure anybody," James Harrison said. "But I'm not opposed to hurting anybody."

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."

by showtime on May 29, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

New one at 3rd and Market in Harrisburg called MoMo's.

Been there for lunch once, and it was pretty good.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, there is no such school as Boston.

BU.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Interviewing Brown

Also, I think it’s important to note that the concept of hiring Larry Brown is going to loom large over whomever they do end up hiring. There will be inevitable comparisons to Brown and if/when the new coach struggles, there will be complaints that they could have gone and gotten the giant name instead.

This is important because a lot of folks are saying “how can you not at least interview Brown, rather than dismiss him after a brief phone call?” Well, if you no for sure that you aren’t going to hire Brown – and I feel certain that Curley and company had zero interest in bringing him in due to his checkered past while a college coach – why would you create the circus of interviewing him? Any positive PR you get from that would be completely overshadowed by all the negative PR for not hiring Brown. I think understandably that Curley and PSU wanted to “nip in the bud” any Brown talk before it even started because they didn’t want to experience the downside. I think that’s why they aren’t pubicly commenting on the situation now either – why build up the situation any more by acknowledging it. I think they simply don’t want any associating of Larry Brown’s name with the PSU job.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, it's all about his checkered past.

He’s a regular Wiley Coyote.

Couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the fact that he wouldn’t tolerate being told to practice in the IM Building.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I somehow doubt “Would you be willing to move practices?” came up in the phone conversation.

I don’t know what is so hard to believe that PSU simply didn’t want to have anything to do with Larry Brown. And if you didn’t want anything to do with him, what is the point in bringing in him for a sham interview. Which would actually make things worse when you do hire a candidate in line with PSU’s values and ideals.

You think that PSU just wants a worthless yes man who will go along with anything. Fine, we get it. I firmly believe that PSU wants someone who they feel embodies PSU’s ideals and will do things “the right way” and build something here over time. The latter process may take a long time to win; heck, it may never win. But I don’t have a problem with the school valuing it’s principles over simply winning. YMMV.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That whole last paragraph sounds like one giant excuse.

If Penn State had any track record of running the basketball program “the right way” then I might be willing to accept this cartoon villain image of Larry Brown you’re trying to push.

The problem is, the way Penn State has operated this basketball program gives it absolutely no credibility when talking about doing things “the right way.” Don’t tell me about wrestling. Don’t tell me about hockey. Don’t tell me about football. Show me what this athletic department has done to indicate it takes the basketball program seriously, then maybe I’ll buy the notion that it’s trying to do things “the right way.”

If Larry Brown came in and started paying off the Dream Team to come play for Penn State today, it wouldn’t be nearly as embarrassing as the way this athletic department has treated the basketball program. If choosing to buy this narrative that Penn State is too good for Larry Brown and bound by higher ideals makes you feel better about that, great.

I’m going to keep looking at that 43% margin and suggest that has far more to do with this than anything else.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

As I saw someone else mention either on this post or another: I’d rather lose than sacrifice my principles just to win.

by lion09 on May 29, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

People need to start reading the words on their screens.

This idea of “values” and “principles” guiding these decisions is one giant excuse for the fact that Penn State doesn’t care.

To hell with Larry Brown.

Anyone who thinks this program is being operated with any value other than dollar signs is flat out wrong. Ask the bent rim in the IM Building.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

So if John Calipari was available and interested in the PSU head coaching position, then we should hire him, right? I mean, by the reasoning you seem to be entailing we should because he’s a “winner”.

Obviously, we wouldn’t hire him and we wouldn’t even consider him and I don’t think anyone would argue otherwise. Between “John Calipari” and “Ed DeChellis”, there’s a spectrum of people, some of who would be considered for a PSU job and some of whom wouldn’t. I don’t find it all that surprising that Larry Brown falls under the category of “not in consideration” but I fail to see how that means that PSU “doesn’t care”.

Actually, quite the opposite, I think they do care; it’s just the things they care about are avoiding NCAA sanctions and graduating players as opposed to winning.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're just going in circles here.

It’s not even about Larry Brown anymore. It’s about whether you believe an athletic department that kicks its team out of a practice gym for Bon Jovi and makes it practice on crooked rims cares actually cares about “Success With Honor.”

More like “Cash Without Consequences.”

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are conflating two unrelated ideas.

“Success with honor” is the goal, “honor” is the bare minimum. With Brown, all you would get is “success” until the NCAA has to get involved.

If you want to say the school has not showed a commitment to the program, I agree. If you want to say the refusal to interview Brown is a function of that attitude, or related to it at all, I cannot agree. Brown has no place at PSU. He has proved he cannot win the right way at the collegiate level, by never trying to win without breaking the rules.

If it were “cash without consequences” then Brown would have gotten that interview. He has said he didn’t care about his salary, and his presence would have brought a lot more in.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Success With Honor is not the goal.

Period.

Forget the bad basketball on the floor. This program has not been operated with anything approaching “honor,” especially not in the past year. That’s why Penn State is looking for a new basketball coach in the first place.

If ever there was an honorable man in the athletic department, it was Ed DeChellis. If the fact that not even he could stand anymore doesn’t tell you “Success With Honor” as it pertains to Penn State basketball is a smokescreen, I don’t know what will

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The resources they have given the team are shameful.

But you are confusing the success part with the honor part. The lack of resources is because they don’t care about success. The honor part is about how you recruit and how you monitor and control the atmosphere of behavior the NCAA asks of its student athletes.

The bottom line is you don’t know if any coach will have success here. Especially not with the support the program gets. What you can control is whether you hire someone who cares about honor. Brown has repeatedly displayed with his college history that he does not.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon dude.

There’s nothing honorable about making fans wait until halftime of the Wisconsin game to pay full price for 20 minutes of basketball because you didn’t have your crap together at the ticket window. There’s nothing honorable about putting your players at bodily risk and making your them dodge stanchions and shoot on crooked rims. There’s nothing honorable about bleeding the life out of a man who gave eight years to doing his best for this program.

When you’re cheating your own fans and players, it doesn’t matter whether you’re cheating other programs or the NCAA.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, you named a number of reasons that

the program does not set itself up for success. The program has not recruited bad kids, it has not cheated to get them here, and it graduated them. And yes, all of that matters before having success. And yes, Brown has shown he is the antithesis of all that.

Again, I won’t disagree that the things you named are shameful ways to run the program. But it’s not what “honor” is about. The first PSU coach prerequisite is going to be operating within the rules. For any of our sports. That’s the honor we are asking of our coach.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Honor" at Penn State

Means graduation rates and no NCAA violations. That’s the stuff they always push in the marketing department. I’m not even sure they care that much about the police blotter.

--
A T-bone steak, cheese, eggs, and Welch's grape.
@scrappled
Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, it comes down to “the program hasn’t been showing the commitment they should, therefore everything they do from this point forward only reinforces that point and is worthy of scorn”.

Rather than complain about PSU not interviewing someone they would have never hired (because he simply doesn’t fit in with the school) why don’t you focus your energy on suggesting someone who would show a commitment to the basketball program and is obtainable? Someone who might cost a lot of money but has a history of success, would potentially be around for a long time and has no history of cheating/breaking NCAA rules/sanctions/etc. Oh and also graduates players.

Honestly, complaining about PSU not hiring or interviewing that guy – because he costs too much money or would demand too much control or whatever – would resonate much more to me about the school not being committed to basketball than simply ignoring a sleazy guys who can’t stay in one place like Larry Brown. I think Larry Brown is simply a straw man because he’s not someone we would ever consider to hire whether we are “fully committed” to basketball or not.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Listen

There are good arguments for steering clear of Brown. I don’t agree with them, but I recognize them. “He’s to sleazy for Penn State” is not one of those reasons. Not after this past year. If one is too sleazy for the other, it’s Penn State for him. I firmly believe that.

I believe he’s the kind of guy that would come in and say “No, I’m not practicing in the IM Building,” and “No, I’m not going to accept a recruiting budget of three buttons, a watch and the lint in your pocket.” I also believe that is why Penn State isn’t considering him.

The point here is, I don’t have faith that the athletic department has good intentions. If I did, I’d be receptive to the arguments against Brown, but until I see a man stand up and say “This is BS” with “Penn State Basketball head coach” under his name, I’m going to believe they avoided Brown because they didn’t think he’d be the “yes man” I believe they’re looking for.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot,

“I don’t care if it’s a recruiting violation because this is how I’m going to win” and “I’ll be long gone by the time anyone finds out anyway”.

Just because Brown would stand up against your number one pet peeve of the program, doesn’t mean we should compromise the school’s values to get him in there.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

In retrospect I should't call it a pet peeve

because it is a very legitimate and serious gripe. But there is one thing we can never sacrifice even for that, and it’s selling ourselves out to a coach who will bend and break the rules to win.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Brown is a lousy option for PSU. It’s possible to hire a coach who does not compromise academic principles of PSU while still working to raise the quality of how PSU is run on the basketball side. It is possible for that to happen and I don’t see any reason to compromise on the many very legitimate principles that PSU operates under in the Athletic Dept.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a bit melodramatic isn't it?

So basically, because you don’t like the way one sport is run, you refuse to acknowledge that the AD and school have standards and morals regarding who they ask to lead their student athletes? And you want the entire AD and school to sacrifice those morals in an effort to turn the team around?

And you know what, I’m not judging that, just admit it.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think the AD has morals.

I think they avoid trouble so it doesn’t hurt the cash cow, and they sell that as morals.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well that's a hyperbolic pile of...

You’re saying that across the entire PSU athletic department, from Football to Fencing and everything in between, no one buys into the Success with Honor and the Grand Experiment?

Curly may, or may not. I’ve never met the man, so I honestly can’t comment. I have met Paterno, I have met Spanier, and actually had a nice conversation with him about why I moved all the way across the country to attend PSU. The man either is a great con artist, or he really loves the idea behind the moral stance Penn State takes.

This isn’t about just the athletic department. This is about our University itself, and the commitment that every student and faculty member has to it. I don’t care what kind of spin you put on this, and I understand you have a huge passion for basketball in particular. Not properly supporting the basketball team is bad. It is very, very bad. But it is in no way the same deal as knowingly inviting in a man with a questionable reputation regarding NCAA regulations to run our program.

Our reputation as an institution is probably the thing I cherish the most about having attended Penn State. You go anywhere in the nation and you say you graduated from Penn State, and people look at you and go “Right on.” Everyone knows the Grand Experiment, everyone knows the Success with Honor bit. And that transcends whether our basketball team finishes dead last in the Big 10 for the next 20 years. We throw that away and we throw away everything that makes this school, and it’s reputation what it is.

"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."

by mvrck on May 30, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm talking about the basketball program.

That’s all. And you can’t deny the AD has acted in a less than honorable way in operating it.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 30, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's fine that you believe that

and maybe it is true. Still not a reason to bring in a coach with NCAA violations at TWO different colleges.

I personally think there’s a difference between being cheap and amoral, or without honor.

by The JuggerNitt on May 30, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that might be one reason, but not the only one.

--
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Slow States - Football, music, craft beer, and podcasts with an industrial slant.

by Run Up The Score on May 29, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not going in circles; we’re just talking about two different things.

I think that PSU not talking to Larry Brown is about PSU not being interested in Larry Brown. I don’t think it has anything about the school’s commitment to basketball beyond not being interested in a guy who has had NCAA violations follow him.

In terms of PSU not putting the proper commitment to basketball, I tend to agree with that and hope it changes. I hope that with whomever they do end up hiring that they provide him with increased financial and structural support. They can do that without having the slightest interest in Larry Brown.

My point is simply that I don’t have a problem with not interviewing Larry Brown because I don’t think he’s a good fit for PSU. I do hope they can find a person who is both a good fit for PSU and will advance the program competitively while still upholding the high standards we expect at PSU. I think getting such a candidate will be very tough though, but I hope it will be done.

by Laaaaazzz on May 29, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

To go one step further,

if you are making me choose between success or honor, give me honor. If you are interested in Brown, and do believe they are mutually exclusive, then you are making a very clear choice for success.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on May 29, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ultimately.

You’re giving the AD the benefit of the doubt before Larry Brown, and I refuse to go there.

Adam
Black Shoe Diaries, SB Nation Pittsburgh, Daily Collegian Sports, BT Powerhouse, @fugimaster24
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by Adam Bittner on May 29, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you, Fugi.

The atheletic department has shown absolutely nothing in the way of support for the baksetball program. Can anybody here imagine telling Joe that the university is taking over Holuba Hall for a clinic from August – January? No, it wouldn’t happen. Cael Sanderson has been here for only 2 seasons, and can you imagine anybody telling HIM to vacate the wrestling facilities? No. But basketball has to pack up all their equipment like a homeless bunch of gypsies to practice in the IM Building, not because of a scheduling conflict with another varsity sport, but for a damn Bon Jovi concert? That shows there is absolutely, positively no respect for the basketball program.

You can look at this as a which came first, the chicken or the egg type of question: Did DeChellis’ record suck because he got absolutely no backing, or did he get no backing because of his record? Considering two years ago we won the NIT, and this year we were in the finals of the Big Ten tournament for the first time, and lost in the first round of the real tournament on a last second shot to a basketball school in Temple, and I’ll place the blame on Curley’s lap.

Also, as it pertains to Larry Brown, what about a little reverse psychology. If a coach like Larry Brown is interested in the job and is a serious candidate, doesn’t that raise the profile and prestige of the position?

by Ab4PSU on May 29, 2011 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

just to clear something up

the basketball team had to move their practice to the IM Building, not because of a Bon Jovi concert, but because of a Bon Jovi rehearsal.

by The JuggerNitt on May 29, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

so basically, a practice.

Not a performance, not a concert, but practice. Practice. Not a concert. Not a concert. Practice. Practice.

/iverson’d

by IndianaLion on May 29, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but

Although the “story” was that it was several days of technical rehearsals for the kickoff of the Bon Jovi tour, I think it was a secret practice for the kickoff of Bon Jovi’s football team — when the league reforms of course. And quite frankly, Bon Jovi’s won/loss record was better than Ed’s.

by Smee on May 29, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

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