On Joe Paterno, the Penn State Way, and the Future of the Program
"Right now, I’m looking at four-five more years"
-Joe Paterno at the Big Ten Media Days, July 28, 2011
Joe Paterno keeps putting Penn State fans in a difficult situation. On the one hand, Paterno represents more than the game of football. His contributions on and off the field have changed the lives of thousands of student athletes and fans across the globe. He has helped grow the university into what it has become, defining what it means to coach true student-athletes. To focus solely on the future of the program would be to miss the final years of a coaching career the world will never see again.
And that is ultimately the paradox Joe Paterno has built around the Penn State football program. To appreciate the career of a legend, while focusing on an inevitable changing of the guard. To ignore one of those would only damage the other, and it's that balancing act that has prevented any true progress within the program. In a world of high-speed internet and text messages, Paterno has effectively frozen one of the nations most successful athletic programs as he dismisses any discussion of his retirement. A program with no true road map, is a program doomed to never truly find long term success.
In the end, this is not a call for Paterno's two-weeks notice, but rather the acknowledgment that Paterno is not the coach he once was. That while Paterno may be well loved, and while he may love Penn State, he is walking the line of graceful retirement and a messy ending.

Planning For A Later Date
This is where the athletic department comes in. On the surface it may seem as though Penn State has gone along without so much as a plan to deal with a post-Paterno era. In a lot of ways though they're showing us their plan as we speak. Marketing, money, and coaching.
From a logistics standpoint Penn State has already transitioned Paterno out of their marketing strategy. Early on in the Dark Years, athletic department productions shifted from a Paterno focus to one of Penn State football as a brand. No longer was the program leaning on the aging shoulders of their coach; Penn State football stood up well on its own. Where TV shows in the mid 80s would feature Paterno speaking about the previous week, the Penn State football story looked at the background and childhood of the athletes themselves. A quick rundown of the press conference might make up for 30 seconds of a half hour program. But people no longer watched for Paterno, they watched for the team. Paterno has since become less and less integral to Penn State Football: The Brand. Certainly Paterno still provides the University with a fitting top to their totem poll, but the foundation of the program is no longer found within the Paterno household.
Financially, Penn State has taken a gamble that they plan on winning. No matter how unpopular the STEP program might be, it is setting up for what Penn State would call "A hot ticket". The student section moved behind the endzone, opening up for public and cooperate shifting to fill in almost 15,000 seats of prime viewing. With increased ticket prices, and improved seating, Penn State cannot risk to make a "safe hire" when it comes to the post-Paterno era. And they know it. It is a program set up for a big hire. High priced tickets don't sell for a so-so program. A big name, a big game, and a big win will change the tune in a hurry.
It has been fairly well documented that Penn State has changed their hiring strategy. Young, successful coaches are slowly replacing the traditional in-house hires that Penn State is so well known for making. If anything, Penn State has forced their own hand into hiring a young coach from outside the program. Any in-house hire besides Tom Bradly would go against the new paradigm. If anything, the STEP program has insured that Penn State won't promote Jay Paterno, which might cause the collapse of Center County's economy.

The Morality
"Success with Honor" is a slogan Penn State throws around as often as Nike tells you to Just Do It. Considering that Stanford and Penn State are the only two Division 1 schools to have never committed a major NCAA violation, it isn’t as though they can’t back up their claim. Being able to win, and win without cheating is sadly something that is becoming all too rare in modern day athletics
But what are the parameters of "Success with Honor?" What defines that statement? At what point are you no longer succeeding with honor? Any violations? 2 violations?
This opens up a dialog regarding the meaning of the Penn State way. And this is where the issue lies. Penn State fans, in the very near future, will need to decide where in the sand the line is drawn. More importantly, they will need to tailor their expectations if a coach who fits their strict moral code doesn’t have the on field ability.
This isn’t to suggest that Penn State should succumb to the "Everybody does it" principle. There are plenty of coaches in the country, and in the Big Ten with relatively clean records, but if Penn State fans are going to adhere to a zero-violation policy it may be difficult to adequately to satisfy all of their expectations.
For the sake of the conversation, take Urban Meyer. Meyer has found his name bouncing around the internet in connection to Penn State, and as expected, SEC hatred and traditional SEC recruiting scandals have turned a lot of people off to the idea of Meyer taking over for Joe Paterno.
In the case of Urban Meyer almost everything makes sense as to why he'd want this job. He's healthy, he's rested, and Happy Valley provides him with a sleeping giant tucked away in the hills of the east coast. Meyer would go from massive media pressure to having to deal with Cory Giger. As a student of the game, and a molder of men, Meyer would be lying if he said it didn't interest him a little.
For a lot of Penn State fans though, Meyer isn’t good enough for the program. Florida had 4564.9 arrests while Meyer was coaching at Florida, and while Meyer is to blame for some of these problems, the Florida program itself has done nothing but win and hadn't committed a major violation under his stay. There is something to be said for how the Florida program has been perceived over the past few years, but Meyer’s name is clean in the NCAA’s eyes.
Moving On
That could be Penn State fan’s biggest problem. Lots and lots of people see a post-Paterno program as a chance to awaken a sleeping giant. That 10-12 win seasons could become the norm if the right hand was put behind the wheel. But who? Al Golden and Pat Fitzgerald have been name-checked more than a few times, but there isn’t any actual data to support the idea one or the other would suddenly turn Penn State into a powerhouse. That isn’t to suggest they can’t, but these are the only coaches who are deemed fit to serve by many Penn State fans. Bring up a big name coach like Meyer and every single aspect of their life and previous coaching jobs is put under a microscope. It is almost as if Meyer would suddenly take over a program and run it into the dirt on his first day.
In the end, this isn’t an exposition on the greatness of Meyer. The point is to juxtapose the Penn State fan’s expectation on the field, with their desire to find Joe Paterno 2.0. A coach with a perfect background and the ability to take the program to the next level. At the end of the day, that coach might not exist anymore.
Which brings us back to success with honor. Success with honor means approaching your job with an honest attitude in an attempt to mold young men and women into the sorts of people Penn State has turned out year and year again. It doesn’t mean that the only man for a Penn State job is one who has led a sinless life of a Boy Scout. If Penn State fans want to see the football program move forward in the future, it might be time to recognize that. Joe Paterno may be holding captive Penn State's football program. However, should an Urban Meyer some day come calling, Happy Valley shouldn't be too quick to show him the door.
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All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
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by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
I'll take a 10-11 win season every 3-4 years...
and still have honor and academic integrity rather than the possible alternative anytime. Careful what you wish for.
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
by LB31Monster on Aug 1, 2011 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 10 recs
+1
But it’s more than that, for me.
I trust that Spurley will go the right direction after Joe, avoiding promoting Jay or hiring Urban Meyer all the same. I figure we’ll be in a good position as soon as Joe retires, probably better than we are now.
But I’m okay with being a very very good program, and not an elite program, only because Joe has done so much for this team, for this school. Penn State would just be another state school in the middle of nowhere if it wasn’t for Joe Paterno. If it means another 3 9-or-10 win seasons that should be 11-or-12 win seasons I’m 100% okay with that if it means letting Joe go out on his own terms.
He’s earned it.
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I'm not suggesting that we should boot him today
I’ll take 9-10 win seasons and let him leave when he wants to. I think the real problem is being holier-than-thou when it comes to hires.
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Is it wrong
to kinda want Master Shake, the Mooninites, and the Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future to coach PSU football?
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Not at all
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I think in real life
that means Les Miles, the Stoops brothers, and Ron Zook
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by ckmneon on Aug 1, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ron Zook
talk about somebody who is confused as to why he still has a job
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He must be the most charming and convincing individual on the planet
He has convinced (1) recruits that should be well out of his league that he and Illinois football are worth it, (2) great assistants to come work for him, and (3) two programs who have had multiple top 15 teams in the last 10 years that he’s fit to be their head coach, in spite of A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Keep doin’ your thing, Zooker.
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he just has incriminating photos of everyone
Literally everyone.
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I don't think Devon was being holier-than-thou
if that’s what you meant. Expecting Penn State to make a long-term, stable move in the next coaching hire is completely within the acceptable expectations of the fanbase. Urban Meyer has been flaky. (Not saying your article was all about Urban, just using it as an example)
Maybe his time at Notre Dame caused some of that flakiness, I don’t know.
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by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It was mostly a general statement
He wins, he’s young, he hasn’t been in trouble. But for some reason he isn’t good enough for us. I get the arguments why people don’t want him around. But we’ll have a hard time being happy if those three things aren’t good enough.
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He rubs me the wrong way
And has been flaky as shit the last few years. This is a guy who doesn’t discipline his players, and who wins recruits by telling them “God wants you to come to Florida.” He’s not a worthy successor to Joe Paterno.
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Plus
I’d have to kill myself if I saw Penn State running that gimmick of an offense.
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Meh. That offense has been successful everywhere.
Literally everywhere he’s been at all levels. And he’s had two QBs drafted in the first round. We could do much worse.
He’s been flaky the past few years, but the not disciplining players isn’t much different from the way Paterno has handled things (lots of the criminal issues were dropped and Meyer still disciplined kids) and the “God story” has been debunked by the player himself. Meyer’s reputation has taken a hit with non-Florida fans because he’s been ridiculously successful and the SEC is irritated that his gimmick offense dominated the league for several years.
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by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
His "gimmick" offense...
is a variation of the Delaware Wing T which has been around forever. He just happened to put the QB in the shotgun instead of under center. Though, his teams at Florida were good, but not great without Tebow.
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by Esteban d' Amur on Aug 1, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
JoePa was running that offense when he was at Brown
or was that the spread option? JoePa has done it all!
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 1, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Promoting Jay is exactly what we should do
I’ve always been a fan of his play calling, never been a big fan of his QB coaching (Though I don’t think he’s a bad one.) Promote Jay, hire… I dunno, Kerry Collins. I’d like it
"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 1, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Hire MRob!
Did anyone else see the tweet where someone told him rather than changing teams or staying with Seattle in free agency, he should come back and coach at Penn State? His response: that’s coming.
Fire Dan Snyder
by Cari Greene on Aug 1, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
link
http://twitter.com/#!/RealMikeRob/status/95707678436892672
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Working link
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Yes
I can see it now: he’ll come in being told he’s going to be QB coach, but in his first year, he gets bumped to RB coach. The following year, he gets moved to WR coach. Two years later, he finally gets to coach the QBs, and immediately produces a Heisman winner, whereupon he’s offered a job on the 49ers staff.
Thankfully, he turns it down, and goes on to become head coach, hiring Darryl Clark as his OC.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be fine with Jay or McQueary or LJ Sr. as the head coach of Penn State after Joe goes
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by AdamShell on Aug 1, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But, for the record, my vote is with McQueary
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I want Al Golden bad.
He knows what it means to be a Penn Stater. He’s been out in the world on his own to develop his own ideas and own way of doing things. He’s young.
And he took that barren wasteland of Temple football to consecutive bowl games. If he can do that with Temple, what could he do with our resources, our facilities, our BRAND? I think he’s the perfect choice.
32 DAYS 20 HOURS 43 MINUTES 27 SECONDS UNTIL KICKOFF!!!
#teamLJSR
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for Spurley
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have people used that before?
If not, I’m brilliant.
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are missing a very important point on Meyer.
It’s not a problem with violations or arrests. It’s problems with his health and his personality.
It will be very important, in my opinion, to have some stability post Paterno. The easiest way to accelerate into a downward spiral is to get on the ND or Tennessee coaching carousel. What exactly about Meyer inspires confidence that he wouldn’t put us in that situation? He was not healthy enough to continue coaching. So he announced his retirement and said he owed it to his family because he loved them. Then he returned anyway and coached another year, saying he was heatlhy enough. He clearly was not because he announced shortly after that he indeed was retiring due to his health. That means he came back and coached when he couldn’t handle it in spite of his family’s concerns.
If Meyer is interviewed and offered the job, but still not able to handle it due to his health, are you confident that he would turn it down? Or would he take it and try like he did the second time around in Florida. Then what are the chances he lasts more than a season or two before having to retire again. I don’t think we can afford to get Bert Favre’d by our next coach, I think that is the fastest way to drive this program down.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I know this would be unpopular...
but I would rather have a guy who coached Vandy or Wake Forest than Urban. I want somebody who sees the big picture and could be successful with the resources PSU has. Again, I realize I’m in the minority here.
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
James Franklin would be a <3 hire
Given, it’s yet to see if he can win games, but he can sell a crappy product like a pro.
"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 1, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
In short
Maybe he was burnt out but I doubt very much that he’ll never coach again. In the end, it isn’t about it being Meyer as much as it is turning him down just because he’s from Florida/SEC.
Not to mention Penn State is going to keep coaches around for 10 years or so. The rest of the world has a pretty quick turnover rate, at somepoint it’ll be like that here too.
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Burnt out?
He was 46 years old and had been a head coach for 9 seasons. Then his health should have prevented him from continuing, he tried to power through a 10th season, and then he had to shut it down. I’m not saying we’ll keep coaches 45 years in the future, I understand we won’t. But I don’t see how you can assume that he’ll (1) be able to handle more than 1 season and (2) would be humble enough to turn it down if he didn’t think he could. I don’t expect 4 and a half decades from the next guy, just more than 1 season would be nice.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I think it's worth noting that you believe him to be worth the gamble that he'll last somewhere.
I’m not. This isn’t some high ceiling high schooler with injuries. This is the head coach. Unlike players, we don’t have 24 other scholarships spots for head coaches.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Damn straight.
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a problem with this
You are arguing that JoePa needs to step down gracefully so that we can move on to the next era of Penn State football. Then, you advocate hiring a guy like Meyer who has 1)already retired, twice and 2) has a significantly lesser body of work than JoePa.
Just because he is younger doesn’t make him a more viable long term option.
And, for what its worth, JoePa can be as dismissive as he wants to be to the general public and the media about his long term plans. What counts is what happens behind closed doors, and his production on the football field. Personally, I prefer to have a coach that will say yep, I’m coaching until the end of eternity just to be dismissive of the media, than to have a coach that retires, then returns, then retires, then returns, then becomes an ESPN personality.
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by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"What counts is what happens behind closed doors"
Now more than ever, I believe that Tim Curley checks on the status of the various parts of his Post-Paterno Plan every day after his morning dip in the Money Bin.
I’m not saying it will work. It probably won’t; no one’s lucky enough to replace one great man with another right off the bat. At this point, I’m sure there’s a plan.
Great read, Ben.
I think Joe might have a better idea of when he's going than he's letting on.
I read his interview in the Town and Gown preview, and he said that if they want him gone, he’ll go. His main priority at this point is making sure his assistants are provided for and left dangling in the wind after all their years of loyal service.
Not To Be "That Guy"
But when a team is about a month away from kickoff, it’s a little discouraging to hear that the head football coach’s main priority is “making sure his assistants are provided for.” I think that Joe has earned the right to stay for as long as he likes provided that he continues to develop and push the program, but sticking around solely for the sake of his assistants just doesn’t sound good from any perspective.
Run.
I think Paterno meant his priority to make sure the assistants are taken care of
was in the case of him being asked to step down.
man, you have to really stretch the anti Paterno vive to get that out of what he said.
He is not sticking around for the sake of the assistants, he is sticking around because he still thinks he can take the team as far as it can go. I really don’t know how anyone can get out of that interview what you just stated, no way no how. very odd
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Aug 1, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I've been very active in my defense of Urban Meyer, mostly because I think he's developed a negative reputation that's entirely unearned.
That being said, your points on his health and the stability of any program he coaches in the future are absolutely correct.
I don’t see the post being about Meyer per se, so much as it’s about whether anyone can live up to the mythology of Joe Paterno. If someone who’s been overwhelmingly successful, has no major violations, is a killer recruiter and very media savvy isn’t good enough to succeed Joe, then who is?
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
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by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well, if that's the point than I missed it.
If Meyer were still coaching somewhere successfully and healthy, I think I would be alright with it. If you ask me, people dislike him for the in and out of retirement drama. But the SEC connection and supposed slew of arrests are a convenient target for a fanbase that is so heavily invested in the positive-member-of-society image of its student athletes.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I dislike him for those reasons,
but I especially dislike him for the handling of the Brandon Spikes fiasco.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
^THIS
Seriously, if you want to promote a guy with questionable ethics, look at how he handled a high profile problem with one of his players. What would Joe have done if that was a PSU LB trying to gouge out the eyes of an opposing player? It sure as hell wouldn’t have been a half game suspension. This brings up two options in my mind: either he willing to suspend ethics and willing to get on his knees for a superstar on his team (cough…Tressel…cough) to overlook an extremely dirty play, or he cared more about winning than he did about the right thing to do when your player is caught red handed on national television getting away with trying to blind another player.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
Didn't it start as a one quarter suspension?
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One half I believe
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I am often wrong
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one half
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-spikes110209
For the act, Meyer will bench his star linebacker for the first half of the Gators’ game against Vanderbilt.
The emphasis is Dan Wetzel’s… he wasn’t happy.
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I believed you without the proof
but I do appreciate it!
And for heaven’s sake, it was Vandy! Like they would even miss him.
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
Well,
he self-suspended himself for the whole game… and Vandy did score a FG in the 3rd quarter which he may have prevented…
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So what you're saying is
the dude who HATES EYES is more ethical than Urb?
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
I'm not a huge Meyer fan
and Tebow won’t be looking over his shoulder at his next coaching gig.
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Of course, LaVar did sorta start that fight with a PUNTER from Pitt
and I don’t recall any harsh punishments.
Then again, pushing around a puny punter is rather comical, while gouging out someone’s eye is rather sadistic.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 2, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody wants to follow a legend
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Exactly
I’m completely in this camp when it comes to finding the particular kind of replacement for Joe Paterno that would ensure Penn State has the same level of stability it’s enjoyed for decades. I’m not saying Penn State will hire the “next JoePa,” but hiring a coach that we could expect to stay at Penn State for at least 15-20 years would be the goal.
That is why so many fans wanted Fitzgerald to get more interest, even though he’s quite happy at Northwestern. Personally, I’m hoping Al Golden does a very good job at Miami, FL. If he can succeed there, win a few 10-win seasons and some bowl games, that is the hands-down choice for Penn State.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If Penn State hired Fitz I'd be excited.
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Unfortunately
I really doubt that would happen. Penn State would have to offer Fitz an SEC-style contract. Even then, it would be tough for Fitz to accept.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
How often do coaches move to new jobs within the same conference?
I’d be happy with a guy like Fitz, but wouldn’t the Big Ten try to discourage intra-conference hires?
It doesn't happen that often
but I don’t think it’s against the rules. I think Kirk Ferentz and Fitz would both take it if they could.
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Tom O'Brien
moved from BC to NC State within the ACC. I mean, both of those programs aren’t that good, but it happened within the past year or two.
I'd be THRILLED
but Fitz wants to be the JoePa of jNW.
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by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
And he very well could be
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
When you are the Head Coach
of a different university, that is the right thing to say. I wouldn’t want a guy stumping for a new job when he should be busting his ass on the one he’s got.
Take all coach talk lightly.
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You're... you're crazy man. I like you, but you're crazy.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
You know what really chaps my ass though?
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
'A slong'?
Is TWSS?
'People are about as happy as they decide they want to be'
by Pete the Streak on Aug 2, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Why are we all convinced Fitzgerald is something special?
Someone at BHGP made a pretty good point, one that, as he put it, Iowa fans don’t like to admit: NW has really been a pretty solid program since the mid ‘90s. Fitzgerald isn’t at all performing above their typical level. And, if you look at his record against every impressive team save Iowa (And I don’t know how the hell to explain that deal), and if you look at his bowl record, this guy isn’t even as good as Randy Walker in my opinion.
Maybe he’ll be good someday, but all I’ve been getting so far is, “You just know that bad defense of theirs is killing him.” Well, ok.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw somewhere
Maybe in a comment on here…
That Fitzgerald is the first coach of the past three that hasn’t won a B10 championship within like 3 years of being hired.
Also his teams have regressed over the past three years.
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
I agree, man
He looks the part and all, but I don’t think he’s elevated Northwestern to a better position than when he took the job.
Greyshirted No More
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
agree completely
that and the steroid thing in the 90’s when he played.
My grammer skills need improved.
Dan Mullen
Charlie Strong
Al Golden
Depending on how long Joe lasts.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
He could sneak on to the field.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
Which is why, IMO, Bradley is probably the best option
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
Happy to give Curley the benefit of the doubt for now
ED, Washington, and Sanderson have all been great hires, and Chambers seems to be saying and doing all the right stuff. I’m happy to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see significant reason to do otherwise.
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's where I'm at. He's given me practically no choice.
We’ve all had our fun with Tim Curley, but it’s hard to argue with his moves lately.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
He earned his AD of the year award.
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
But I will say I'm probably on the "Joe should retire after this year" bandwagon
If he wants to keep going then fine, I’d be happy with it. But the contract runs out and it really just sets him up to have a non-Bowden esq type of leave, and there’s a reason why Joe signed a 3 year deal originally and not a 6 year deal. Couple that with guys like Mullen, Meyer, or Golden on the market right now, and yeah, I’d say I hope Joe retires after this year.
But if he doesn’t, there’s no way I’d be complaining.
"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still
Exactly.
I really do think he’ll retire after this season, but he has to keep saying he’ll stick around 4-5 years. Why? Because otherwise, no recruits would come here. Joe should retire, and Penn State would be better off if he did. But I’m not going to be the one to force him out.
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
by Devon Edwards on Aug 1, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe's slick
He’s been saying “4-5 years” for 30 years now. I just watched the 1992 Fiesta Bowl last night. He literally said “4 to 5 more years” in their fluff interview with him for that game.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He says 4-5 more years because there is no more dismissive response
to a media question about when he’s going to retire or die. He doesn’t want to deal with the same bullshit question he’s been asked since the 80s.
Some recruits still value the chance to play for Joe Paterno, but as a deciding factor, I’m not at all convinced that’s why recruits pick PSU. As awesome as it would be to skype with Joe, I sincerely doubt that has been the straw to break the camel/recruits back/decision. Hell, maybe we’d actually get more recruits knocking on our door at 4am just to get the chance to play for a legend on his way out, but I really don’t think it’s that influential of a factor to recruits.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
at this point, I don't know if they appreciate the full scope of Joe's awesomeness
they are just too damn young
youth is wasted on the young
I miss my youth
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
If PSU wins the Big Ten
or at least wins 11 games and the bowl game, Joe might retire. But if this team is very, very obviously one year away from a serious MNC run, he’ll stick it out.
After all, most of us have been preaching for the past 2-3 seasons that 2012 would be THE year for Penn State.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I still feel that this year could be special. I always have, but we’re a player or two from making 2012 very interesting
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
A younger guy really needs to have a breakout Mo Evans/Project Mayhem breakout
at DL or DE (preferably both) before I’d be willing to have complete faith in next next season’s defense. We lose a lot this year, especially in the secondary. The LBs will be nasty for the next two years, but the other 2/3s of the defense worries me.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
STEP
“No matter how unpopular the STEP program might be…”
I think the sole reason STEP was done was to start shifting the balance of power from the JoePa generation of big money donors to the next generation of big money donors. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of potential younger big money donors that aren’t donating till Joe is gone. That’s why there are still a good many available season tickets.
Is this true?
there are still a lot of potential younger big money donors that aren’t donating till Joe is gone.
I find that VERY difficult to believe.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
People would like to believe it, but there's no real evidence that's the case.
Unless the commenter himself is a young, big money donor that is waiting for Joe’s retirement. And that still makes one.
You know what holds me back from donating? The lack of big money.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I'm a young, no-money donor
and in the future, I’m going to be less young and ____-money donor (with the adjective here being directly proportional to my income). I don’t think anyone is withholding large donations on account of the coaching situation.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Yea exactly
I don’t know if I’ll donate to PSU in the future, but if I don’t it’s because I can’t afford it, not because I’m upset w/ the football coach
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
I also admit that I'm much more likely to donate to the university itself (which I already do as a young, low-money donor)
than I am to donate to the athletic department. Of course, I’m not looking for season tickets.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
I didn't realize there was a difference
I’m still getting used to this whole “alumni” status. I don’t like it.
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
Dude, that Alumni title makes me cry now
I still classify myself as “reluctant alumni.” It’s too soon for me to let go. My last roommate in college bought me a PSU alumni t-shirt which I still have yet to even take the tags off of.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
I STRONGLY disagree with the notion that JoePa is holding the program back
I really don’t buy the arguments that by not retiring, he is leaving the program “frozen” and “without a road map.” Every year that Joe stays is another year of rock-solid stability. When he announces that he’s ready to hang it up, the hiring process will begin; it doesn’t matter if that happens in 5 months or 5 years. Recruits are still coming in, alumni and fans are still supporting the program, and aside from last year, the wins are still coming in bunches. What exactly is the problem?
Hiring a new coach will essentially mean blowing up the program and starting from scratch. Sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesn’t. When the time comes, I have faith that the Athletic Department will do the best job anyone could do. But, no matter how good a coach looks on the day he’s hired, it’s always a gamble—more often than not, a losing one. Yes, there’s a chance we’ll catch lightning in a bottle and get a coach who will lead us to 10 consecutive double-digit win seasons without committing any violations, but honestly, how likely is that? When’s the last time ANYONE hired a coach like that?
We are incredibly lucky to have JoePa—and yes, I’m talking about today’s 84 year-old JoePa. There will be some bumps in the road, like with any program, but for the most part, as long as he remains coach, we know exactly what we’re going to get: a solid, competitive program that we can be proud of, and every so often, a great team that remains in the National Championship mix until late in the season. I will happily take that for as many years as JoePa has left to give.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 13 recs
I'm with you
Joe may not be the coach he was for the first 20ish years of his career anymore (really, who is or ever has been, besides him?), but the list of coaches in BCS leagues who have ever had 6 straight winning seasons, 3 in the top 10, and no major violations during that time is not a very long list. The past 6 years alone puts Joe Paterno on it.
Joe may be 1/2 the man he used to be, but half the man Joe used to be is a great head football coach that any program is lucky to have.
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by ckmneon on Aug 1, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Joe's not as good as he once was
but he’s as good once, as he ever was.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Clearly I'm not going to argue with Paterno's success
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Why is this?
Hiring a new coach will essentially mean blowing up the program and starting from scratch.
It really only means that if the last coach drove the program into the ground. Joe hasn’t done that. He won’t do it, either. But I’m not completely convinced that he’s the best man for the job.
All things considered, he’s still Joe Paterno and that counts for more than pretty much anything.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Which also brings up the question
If Bradley leaves for Pitt, and the cards fall from there do we blame him for “Blowing up the program?”
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
If the queen had a dick
she’d be the king.
The problem with your whole argument is that it assumes too much. It’s implicit in your post that you expect the team to have a less than stellar year this year, but that of course, is no certainty. If the team goes to the Big Ten championship game this year, would you still say that Paterno keeps putting fans in a tough position?
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I can only speak to the present
But I don’t think that wondering about the future is the same thing as throwing him under the bus
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
That being said.
Do you feel that Penn State couldn’t be any better than it is now? You can’t hate a man for not making in-house visits, or get upset when he gasp says he’ll call plays, and then defend him to the death because he’s a great guy.
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
I don't know if Penn State could be 'better' than it is right now
Because it depends on one’s definition of “good”. As your post helps us explore, at PSU, “goodness” is defined as “sucess with honor,” a fairly ambiguous phrase. What exactly consitutes honor, and what also constitutes success?
I think we’d all agree that Joe meets anyone’s definition of ‘honor.’ And over the last six years, I think a combined record of 58-19 (including 4-2 in bowl games), also constitutes success.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
much of your argument rests on this statement
[fans] will need to tailor their expectations if a coach who fits their strict moral code doesn’t have the on field ability.
The pivotal word there, of course, is IF. Personally, I’m with you that Urban Meyer meets my definition of honor (though others disagree). But I don’t think that it’s a given that whoever the next coach is won’t be able to meet the common PSU fan’s definition of ‘success’ and ‘honor’. In fact, I expect him to.
And I don’t think that JoePa has in any way made finding such a coach more difficult or challenging.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I'm not saying the program will be terrible right away under a new coach
Of course, plenty of new coaches have lots of success in their first couple of years with the previous coach’s players. But as soon as a new staff comes in, they start doing things their own way—the way that made them successful enough to earn their new job in the first place. Any similarity to the methods the previous coaching staff used will be largely coincidental. Sometimes, the entirely new system works. A lot of times, it doesn’t. Either way, when you hire a new coaching staff, you’re trading the known for the unknown.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I seem to remember this guy...I think he came from Youngstown State
He was pretty successful, but it didn’t end well.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 1, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Re: your "best man for the job" comment
Is there a specific coach you have in mind whom you think would be better suited to the job than JoePa is right now? If there is, I’d be happy to hear you make your case for him. But if Joe is simply falling short of what you think the ideal Penn State coach should be, then you’re getting into the territory Ben warned about at the end of his column.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure who's ideal that's available.
I would like to have someone who is a more aggressive and active recruiter. The mumbled press conferences were a big problem for me as well last year. I’d also like to have a coach who doesn’t say things like, “I’ll be much more involved this year,” implying that he wasn’t last year. I’d also like a coach who’s a little less conservative in big spots.
Joe’s presentation has been very good this off-season, but I don’t think I’m asking for something that many coaches can’t deliver. I’m not looking for the new “hot” coach of the moment. I’m looking for someone that can take us to the next level.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Whats the next level?
OSU?
With all due respect, Fuck that. I’ll take playing second fiddle to a bunch of cheating, lying sonofabitches rather than stoop to their level any day.
As far as I’m concerned Penn State is the next level that every other school should aspire to.
We have shown a consistant ability to make runs at the Big10 and even the MNC on a consistant basis. Yes, we had our share of disapointing seasons, but who hasn’t? Seriously, who hasn’t? Is the next level Texas, or Florida, or Alabama? All of those schools have had their share of dissapointing seasons in the very recent past (two of them last year, and one earlier in the decade. Oh yea, and that Alabama team is on probation).
I mean, honestly, what is the next level? The only thing that I can honestly think of is contending for the Big10 and the national championship year in and out. And the only teams to have done that consistantly this decade were cheating their balls off, and effectively wont have played a game of college football this decade when its all said and done.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Totally agree with this.
I just finished Lion in Autumn. Joe has maintained from the beginning that you can usually only have really good teams every three or four years, due to the cyclical nature of college sports, unless you’re doing things the wrong way. We need to view college sports through a wider angle lens. Three Big Ten championships in 18 seasons may not be great, but it’s not horrible. And Penn State still has as many national championships in the last 30+ years as the rest of the Big 10 combined (more if you’re not a Tom Osbourne-loving tool).
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think
We’ve demonstrated a “consistent ability” to make runs at a MNC. And 2005/2008 weren’t expected – so I don’t buy those years as the basis for saying were a national championship contending program.
What surprises me is that the expectations of people on here aren’t higher. People are satisfied with twice a decade conference championships…as long as we can have in our back pocket the “no major NCAA violations” or graduation rates cards. I want a national championship…and an ethical program….and I don’t think we’ll get both under Paterno.
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm taking it you also put a lot of weight behind pre-season rankings?
And 2005/2008 weren’t expected – so I don’t buy those years as the basis for saying were a national championship contending program.
Who the F cares if they were expected or not?
If I said, “the dark years weren’t expected, so I don’t buy those years as the basis for saying we sucked during that period” you wouldn’t buy that, I’m sure. No, they don’t define us as a gutter dwelling team, but we did flirt with the bottom there during that period. Now we are in a period where we still average as one of the top teams in the country, with runs at the MNC every few years (as good or better than about 110 other programs).
What do you need to be considered a national championship contending program? What is your definition of “elite”, if you will?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
he's back and he's angry!
you can say the whole F word now
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
yeah, I had to take a break for a bit
and do some soul searching (and knew there was no chance of finding one of those here).
Didn’t expect my absence to cause the collapse and rebuilding of the BSD empire, though. I’ll have to be more careful next time.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I knew someone would love that...
To answer your next to last question – Um, you need to get to a MNC game. Don’t get me wrong…2005/2008 were great…but those were the only really good teams we’ve had in the last 15 YEARS that flirted with the rankings needed to get into the MNC. And 2 unexpected years out of 15 doesn’t indicate to me that we’re a national championship contending program. I actually don’t understand how anyone can think Penn State has shown a “consistent ability” to contend for a MNC.
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
1999
Too bad they blew up at the end of the season.
And no, you don’t need to get to a MNC to be a contender. Thats like saying Auburn wasn’t a contender in 2004 (they were undefeated and left out). Furthermore, even if we hadn’t lost to Michigan, we still wouldn’t have gotten into that game.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
Also
There were no undefeated teams in 2008. And yet, we got passed over because our loss came late in the season.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
Redardless of 99, or Auburn in 04 (exception) or the definition of a contender
I dont view our program, in its current or recent form, as one capable of winning a MNC. Just my opinion though
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"just my opinion"
exactly.
There are those on here who do think that this team in recent form was capable of winning a MNC. Heck, in 2005 we were the 2nd best eligible team in the country, and I think we would have beaten Texas.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that
But the fact that we haven’t been to a MNC in what, 25 years, seems to make me lean more towards my opinion on our program than yours. And I think we can win a MNC at Penn state…just not with this staff. I hope I’m wrong
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 3:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The problem with
MNC appearances being your barometer is it’s a popularity contest. It’s the equivalent of being prom queen in high school.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 1, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
I didn’t even say the 1994 team because the general consensus is that we had the best team in the country. The big10 voters screwed us because they were still bitter about us owning the conference. The 1994 team is a national championship team.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
64-14 pissed a lot of people off.
guarentee that. You are not supposed to pawn OSU like that, even if you can. And on top of that, take the foot off the pedal while doing that.
My grammer skills need improved.
More like they waited for an opportunity to drop us below Nebrasker so Tommy Osbourne could get some glory. That opportunity came with the Indiana score, where playing our subs and a late Hail Mary made the scoreline close enough for pollsters to jump NU above us
I thought we dropped in one of the polls the week before indiana
and in the other poll after indiana?
That might be right
Looking back, Nebraska may have jumped is in one poll after they beat Colorado, and then the other poll dropped us to #2 the week later because of the Indiana game
Where was the MNC game played in 1986?
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
Tempe at the Fiesta Bowl
It’s also also REplayed in the nightmares of Vinny Testeverde every single night.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 1, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh
I thought that was the Orange Bowl.
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
Disregard that, wrong comment.
I meant, was it called the “National Championship Game?”
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
the fact that we even call it
a M NC game makes me analyze that metric with about a pound of salt.
Are the teams in the MNC game typically some of the best in the nation that year? Yes.
Are they always the best? Most definitely not.
Are deserving teams left out of it? Almost every year (ironically, 2005 was one of the first “we did it right” years for the BCS. So much for that).
Has Penn State been a deserving team left out? At least twice in the past decade.
Also, by your metric, there have been maybe 5 teams satisfying the conditions that don’t deserve a huge * next to their name (and maybe they do, too)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You know who actually EXPECTED 2005 to be a NC caliber year?
The same man you seem to be doubting can lead us to another one. Same goes for 2008 IIRC. While the rest of us were all freaking the fuck out about whether a 2* unrecruited kid from Ohio was going to beat out an OMG 4* VHT recruit at QB, the old man was playing coy because he knew he had a winning hand and the rest of us thought he was bluffing.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 1, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
And what's more, when Paterno says
“You know, we might not be too bad this year,” he means “We’re going to be awesome.”
FWIW, Paterno sounds cocky this year.
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
by AdamShell on Aug 1, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is definitely the cockiest Paterno of my PSU fandom (began 2003)
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he's more or less guaranteed an undefeated season.
I BELIEVE
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
He's a sly old goat, but he knows his shit
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
I'm sorry but I disagree
I do not want PSU to be viewed as “having in our back pocket the "no major NCAA violations" or graduation rates cards.” I want that emblazoned on the front of every shirt, hell tattoo it on my forehead even. Penn State and Stanford. That is it for clean programs and if that is only seen as something trivial, then Joseph Vincent Paterno has just wasted the last 45 years of his life.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 1, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Careful with those tattoos
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Sadly
they wanted more than my “Intramural flag football championship” ring
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
from the gumball machine
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
what position did you play, you are fast but you can't catch a cold and my six yr old grandson has a stronger arm.
My grammer skills need improved.
What a guy this BMAN is
well where do fast guys that can’t catch go? I don’t mean to toot my own horn but Toot Toot…I do make a pretty mean shutdown corner. I’ve always been the #1 DB on all the teams I’ve played on. And I do hold my own as WR too. But you’re right, no QB for this guy. I make Mills look like Morelli.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
I'll just give you the steal sign whenever on first
and sometimes on second…..but I am a pretty conservative coach when it comes to risking outs.
My grammer skills need improved.
They appeared on his body
through the sheer force of his iron will.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 1, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If he doesn't have a "4TH AN 15 BITCHES" tattoo, I'd be disappointed
then again, it’s totally not MRob’s style.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
I don't think people view Penn State like that
It’s how I view some of the fans. And noone said a clean program was trivial. I just think a lot of people use the “well, we run a clean program” to rationalize things – like not making it to a MNC game in a looong time. I don’t expect a championship every X years…but I do expect more than what PSU has produced over the last decade or so. Maybe it’s an unfair expectation on my part, but that’s how I feel.
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No one rationalizes that way
all PSU fans I know want to win. But they do not want a ten year run like OSU tainted by what we all know happened. I am old and I don’t know a single fan that says its okay to lose as long as we are clean. This is completely an internet thing because those that think Joe can still take the team as far as anyone else are considered Koolaide drinkers. I love Joe and I only hope that when change does happen, PSU can maintain the integrety and honor it has earned over the last 45 years, Because a couple OSU, Pitt and ND subway alumni talk shit does not mean that is the way PSU is regarded around the country. I have never talked to a fan anywhere, Texas, Alabama, California, Illinois, Missouri, Mass, NY, NJ that didn’t hold Paterno and PSU in the highest regard. Only idiots that never went to college are the ones that seem to bad mouth what PSU has.
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Aug 1, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hmm... "a bunch of cheating, lying sonofabitches" ... well, i guess that is the End of Conversation. Obviously, no need to respond.
FWIW, interesting article and interesting discussion. I am sorry that you feel that tOSU/Tressel factors into the equation. IMO, PSU would be lucky to have a Jim Tressel follow a Joe Paterno.
Standards in Ohio clearly are lower than the rest of the free world.
“If I owned [Ohio] and Hell, I would rent [Ohio] and live in Hell.” – Philip Sheridan
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
Yeah, we sure would be lucky to have someone that breaks the rules and lies at all costs to win
That would be AWESOME
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
You can perhaps argue with the last part of the quoted phrase.
You cannot lie with the first two.
Also, your last sentence didn’t make me puke. Surprising.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you lost?
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 2, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The "Next Level" is a pretty tall order.
In the past 6 years, we’ve had two National Championship-caliber teams (2005 and 2008) that missed their shot in the title game as a result of bad luck more than anything else. The four “off years” in between average out to 9-4 every year. I don’t think you can expect any coach to make those “great” teams better than they were. Is there a coach out there who can make the “off years” better than 9-4, or who can have “great” teams more often than once out of every three years? Maybe. But, like I’ve said, assuming we’ll find him on the first try is a pretty big gamble.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't want to start a war over recruiting and stars, but a lot of this is recruiting-based.
Penn State gets a lot out of it’s talent, but it hasn’t been a consistent presence on the recruiting trail year in and year out and most of that has to do with Joe. With an aggressive head coach, maybe some of those “no’s” and “maybe’s” become commitments.
My concern with replacing Joe is less about replacing Joe and more about replacing the staff, specifically the defensive staff.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't follow recruiting that closely
but it seems like we have a few people on staff who do a damn good job of it. The next head coach will certainly do more recruiting than Joe does, but the next assistant coaching staff will have a pretty high bar to meet to make overall net gains in recruiting.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
AC
It appears you’re stance on Joe and a new HC is slowly changing…I like what I’m reading from you!
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Appreciate the compliment. I do think my stance has been pretty consistent, though.
I love Joe. He’s not going anywhere as long as he’s physically healthy and winning 8+ games. I’m fine with that specifically because it’s Joe Paterno, but I don’t think he’s fulfilling every aspect of his job responsibility.
I wrote this about two months ago….
The first thing everyone at Penn State needs to do is remind themselves that Joe is a man and not a god. Joe’s had his own struggles. He’s said repeatedly that his time as a football coach took away time from his family and that’s one of his regrets. He always talks about wanting to spend more time with his grandchildren and yet can’t manage to pull himself away from football in his mid-80s. Some of his players have had behavioral issues, some of which were quite serious.
Joe is a charitable, strong, and impressive man. He’s (in my mind) the greatest football coach to ever walk a sideline because he’s had awe-inspiring success on and off the field in spite of those struggles. But the only reason it will be difficult for the coach following him to be successful is because Penn State fans will make it so. Joe Paterno was not and is not perfect. The sooner we come to grips with that is the sooner that we’re able to embrace a new coach who can run a clean and successful program.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
It was buried in the comments of a lonnnnnnnnnng thread.
But it’s there, I promise! :)
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
I dare you to prove Joe is not a god.
Even Jesus had his own struggles…
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you want to replace the defensive staff?
Last year aside, the PSU defense is always good.
I understand that some people dislike how conservative PSU football is (the offenisve is less conservative than it once was, but still not as conservative as JoePa — or I — would like), and presumably you fall into this camp…right?
Personally, I think a trap for 8 yards is the most beautiful play in football and a fundamentally sound defense that stays in its base formation and dares you to beat is the best thing about PSU football this side of Paterno, tailgating, and the uniforms.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I took this as, he's not concerned about replacing Joe
but IS concerned with replacing the defensive staff under Joe
Fire Dan Snyder
Yes, what you said.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
About conservatism on offense.
For me, it’s not so much as I want us to scratch where it itches, and, more importantly, I want to run the football competently.
Penn State football, historically and traditionally, runs the football with power and authority. We don’t do that anymore, or at least not consistently. We need to. I’m tired of seeing the coaches get cute or timid and showing it with silly Dayvon end-arounds when we should be sending Zordich or somebody straight up the middle.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
agree, but you need a talent on the line to do so
and this has been sorely absent
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I would agree to a degree
But ‘sorely’ is a bit of a hyperbole. Considering the amount of talent that is recruited, its frustrating that we have only had a few AA come off of the line within the past few years. But sorely lacking is dismissive of guys like levi brown, aq shipley, and wiz.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
Oh lord, look who showed up.
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
depends on what you think next level is
to me, the peak you can reach in college football without any nefarious dealings is a 4 year cycle of 2 or 3 years of competing for a B1G championship (not winning, just competing late in the season) with 1 of those years having a chance at an mnc, and only 1 down year of single digit wins. I think that is pretty reasonable to do without cheating.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
by skarocksoi on Aug 1, 2011 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All this next level stuff is giving me flashbacks to when Iowa fired Steve Alford.
Does Urban Meyer use hair gel?
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Crap...
Joe Paterno keeps putting Penn State fans in a difficult situation…
That damned JoPa and his evil ways. Quite honestly the new slant of BSD is kinda like waking up and finding that Fox News has been bought by CNN, and that Wolf Blitzer and Keith Olbermann now run the 8 o’clock and 9 o’clock airtimes…
Funny thing about old Joe – everyone says that once he’s gone it’ll be the end of the era. This has me concerned for a number of reasons, two in particular standing out:
1 – If what’s being posited above, suddenly cheating will be acceptable at Penn State.
2 – The assumption that there are no more coaches who exemplify honor, integrity who can win 10 or more games a year.
Based upon the tenor of the responses I’ve read, I think most call bullshit on these assumptions.
If this is what I can expect while drinking my morning coffee from BSD, I think I’ll go hang out at Fight on State and Penn Live. At least then I’ll know what to expect.
Cheers.
Big gulps huh?
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
They yours?
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
both of em?
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
This exact exchange took place Saturday morning on the 7th tee box.
I couldn’t stop laughing for two holes. Man that was a great movie.
@EpicTripod
BSD
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 1, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry you feel that way.
I don’t agree however that wanting to respect Paterno and plan for the future at the same time is a truly new idea. Nothing about the transition is easy, but it’s going to happen.
And for the record, Urban Meyer hasn’t cheated. If we’re going to judge people based on assumptions it’ll make for a quick coaching search.
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
How about we bring
Jim Harbaugh back from San Fran in 2 or 3 years?
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Sure thing
People are confusing this as a Pro-Meyer, anti-Joe article. The point is being displayed as we speak. Meyer isn’t good enough for Penn State because he might have cheated at somepoint that none of us can track down. I don’t mind people not wanting Meyer to coach here, but we get up on a pretty high horse sometimes.
Penn State can hire whoever they want, I’d just hate to see us look for Joe 2.0 when he doesn’t exist
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
by Ben Jones on Aug 1, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Don't make the assumption that the post and comments are anything more than vaguely related
this is still BSD
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha so if I threw this picture in that would be ok?

The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Like I said, this is BSD
it should have Joe and Tate Forcier somewhere on it, and maybe Stanzi should be the horse
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by ckmneon on Aug 1, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In Soviet Russia
the horse rides you.
Oh and I have no problem with Meyer. He’s a good coach and I think he tries his best. I don’t think he’s a choir boy and I don’t think he’s Tressel/RichRod. I think his health is a valid reason to wonder if he would be a smart hire. Anyways, I’m enjoying having Joe coach for however long he has. I’ll miss him when he’s gone so I’m going to sit back and love every win and hate every loss all the same.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 1, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
+2
Well put. My thoughts exactly.
I guess I’ve reached the age where I enjoy what I have, and don’t feel the need to look beyond the mirror for grass that really isn’t greener.
As for planning ahead – well, the best laid plans of mice and men as they say…
I have only seen one comment about cheating or being slimy.
And a lot about the way he retired-unretired-retired in Fl. Do you disagree? I think you are allowing a more radical minority of the fanbase inform your impression of why people don’t want him to follow Joe.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So what you're saying is you don't like Brett Favre
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
He just goes out and plays.
He just looks like he’s a kid having fun, running around in his back yard out there.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
He just loves playing in his dadgum Wranglers
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
A bit off topic, but I'll tell you why I do love Bert.
There is nothing better than watching him end his team’s season with a cripling int. Has anyone QB in history had as many final-attempt-of-the-season-is-a-game-losing-int-that-sends-your-team-homes?
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Analogy.
To me, and maybe I’m projecting my own opinion onto the entire fan base, an analogous argument would be “fans don’t think PJ will be our starting QB in 2012 because they don’t think he can handle the mental part of the game.” When in fact, most people don’t think PJ will be our QB in 2012 because he has trouble staying elegible.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Would you rather
us debate this using a chalkboard and tinfoil hat?
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
by Mike Pettigano on Aug 1, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd need video
other than that, it’s the perfect podcast idea
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I get it now..
Urban Meyer is part of a Nazi conspiracy to overthrow the Paterno regime and establish a caliphate in Happy Valley!
@happyhourvalley
Black Shoe Diaries
It's not cheating when you do it on the Kiss-Cam.
by Tim Aydin on Aug 1, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Boom.
Only took 89 comments today. Streamlining…
@EpicTripod
BSD
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 1, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
How do I unrec...
something that hasn’t been rec’d?
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
There is the nifty 'flag' option
but I’d never condone such an act of war.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
.

Greyshirted No More
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Aug 1, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're really looking for reasons to complain aren't you?
What Ben wrote wasn’t saying either of the things that you brought up in your comment. Saying it’ll be difficult to replace JoePa with someone who holds the same values & has the ability to win isn’t anything but the truth. I for one want to see Joe coach for as long as he wants to, but I can agree that it does put some fans in a difficult spot. Not all Penn Staters care as much as we at BSD do about Success with Honor. I know a good portion of people who want to win a MNC more than anything else, even if that does mean becoming like the OSU’s of the world. I don’t agree with them, but is what they want out of their Alma Mater any less valid than someone who wants to see Joe coach forever?
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
I don't see how he is putting PSU in a difficult situation
Personally, I love every bit of what we get with JoePa as a head coach. The positives are too numerous to list here.
People seem to assume that once he leaves we will get a new coach and be in a BCS game EVERY YEAR and win a couple national titles in the first few years after his retirement. Perhaps this will happen. Or perhaps we will hire a coach that will fail miserably…or we will get a coach who does not do things the “Penn State Way” and alienate the fanbase….or we will get a coach who will succeed only to get burnt-out after a few seasons and have a sudden departure….or we will get one that decides he can make more $ elsewhere….or we will get a coach that leaves us with a list of NCAA penalties.
What I am trying to say is that we have no idea what we get after JoePa finally retires. I would have liked to have done better than 7-6 last year but it’s hard to imagine we would be better under ANY other coach considering the unusual amount of inexperience and injuries. I doubt there will ever be a sports figure I admire as much as JoePa, so for now I am just focusing on enjoying the present as much as possible.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
don't you know?
The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side…even if it is just a huge patch of very lush poison ivy.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know, I know
I just don’t get the assumption that we automatically bring in a coach that makes us a BCS contender EVERY YEAR (while doing things the Penn State way).
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said.
Who knows what the future will bring. There are no magic beans. Like when I wake up everyday, I just look at it and figure, “l’ll take what comes.” If nobody gets sick or dies or I don’t go bankrupt, it was a good day.
Joe Paterno put fans in a difficult situation once
When he declined to retire after the ’04 season. His decision to stay paid off; in the six years since, the team won 11 games three times, nine games twice, and went 7-6 last year.
If PSU goes 7-6 again next year (or worse) and JoePa insists on staying, then you can say he keeps putting us in a difficult situation.
Personally, I think Paterno puts fans in an easy situation. The team still has a chance to win a national championship every now and again (e.g. 2005, 2008) and even with a less than stellar year, we can keep our heads up b/c of the program’s impeccable academics, etc.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Aug 1, 2011 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I completely agree with your point....
but I’’m pretty sure if we go back the past few years and check the game threads and the post game comments from after each loss, there aren’t a lot of people commenting, “It’s ok that we lost, at least we have our impeccable academic record. I’m not concerned that we lost again to an undermanned Iowa team or got beat by OSU because we have a much better NCAA record than they do.”
remeber: "got beat* by OSU"
never forget the *
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Post, Ben
I’m glad you and Collyer are still writing here. You had both been putting out great pieces during the offseason. This in particular was well done in both its conception and your execution. To me, this is not an article about “who should replace Joe,” but “what are we, the fans, going to do once Joe is gone?” Penn State has done a good job of selling THE BRAND instead of Joe the last few years, but the Penn State brand was basically built by Joe.
I think you’ve done a good job of pointing out that we, as fans, expect the “Success with Honor” thing to continue once Joe leaves, but we might be expecting too much. Name another coach who has had the same level of on-field success Joe has had, coupled with the cleanliness of the PSU program. As you point out, it doesn’t really exist. Penn State only has Stanford as an equal NCAA cleanliness-wise, and Joe basically only had Bobby as an equal longevity and success-wise. So, although a large segment of the fanbase might be excited to see what the future holds, we’re probably going to be mildly disappointed one way or the other. We’re “stuck” with what we have now, and we’re going to be “stuck” with what the future brings.
And if the PSU fanbase’s reaction to a changing of the guard at head coach is half as insane as its reaction to the changing of the guard at its most popular blog….ugh.
by Big Beefer on Aug 1, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sorry...
“I think you’ve done a good job of pointing out that we, as fans, expect the "Success with Honor" thing to continue once Joe leaves, but we might be expecting too much.”
I just reject the premise that we should not expect as much integrity and honor from our next head coach.
Also, for the record, I am not anti Urban Meyer & would welcome him like an unheralded, unranked recruit, and give him the same benefit of the doubt.
I never said we shoudn't expect integrity and honor from our next head coach.
Nor did I say we shouldn’t expect on-field success. It’s “Success WITH Honor.” It’s going to be pretty hard to live up to the combination of the two that Joe has put together over the last 45 years as head coach.
I advocate raising the JoePa debt ceiling...
as long as we cut expenses in the way of people who always call for the “next big thing” or coaches from the SEC. Remember when Schiano was the flavor of the month? We have players who leave the program to go to grad school full time, take internships at Nike, or get severely injured and go on to become lawyers in Philly. If we have the occassional 7 win season, then that’s just fine. I can wear my class ring with pride (as long as it isn’t on my pinky).
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
We have players who play in the NFL and do internships in finance in the off season
(see my avatar)
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
I'm starting to think this thread has the 300+ potential
Wilco
New Coke BSD
Scotch
Go.
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Knicks suck, Jets suck, Yankees suck.
@EpicTripod
BSD
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor
by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 1, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
YES THEY ARE THE METS ARE WINNING THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT STOP SNICKERING BEHIND MY BACK THEY TOTALLY ARE GUYS HEY COME ON STOP LAUGHING
/cries
by psuwxman on Aug 1, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha I don't think the Nats own anybody
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Most likely
we’ll all be dead before either situation comes to fruition.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Does "owning"
include the part where the all-time series is 69-51 in the Mets’ favor? Or are you just going off this past weekend’s events? You could at least try the season series, but even then, the Mets are up 6-5.
LOLZ
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Price check on aisle 4life...
it keeps ringing up as skins4ever.
'Trivializing the "GREATEST RIVALRY OF ALL TIME" for a bunch of ghetto tats must have made them pee in their man-diapers.' Mr. Rosewater
by rahpsu92 on Aug 1, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh Oh..don't leave out
FIRE JAYPA
Lee/Grant
Bolden
McNeckbeard
Guinness
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Wilco sucks, I hate this blog because skins isn’t here anymore, scotch isn’t as good as corn licker.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You're probably less likely to get a buzz off of licking corn
unless you’re into that sort of thing, I mean diff’rent strokes (no pun intended) for diff’rent folks, I won’t judge.
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
Paterno has consistantly given his teams the oppetunity to win the B1G
Since 2005. Last season was an aberation due to the loss of talent in the senior class and injuries to key players. Look at the players in the NFL or that where drafted that could have played in 2012. Bowman, Taylor, Maybin and Devlin could all have been senior and are/were big time talents. Should the coaches have better prepared the players they had, absolutely. We should have beaten illinois, michigan state, and florida. Since the senior class was so small the recruiting class was small. If the coach that replaces joe has the same track record over his first couple years I will be surprised. The notion that joe is holding back Penn State from being this dominant big ten power is laughable. Should our quarterback and offensive line play be better than it has been, absolutely. Wait until this season to judge whether joe still has it and leave articles like this for pennlive.
I agree with the top half.
I don’t think this is fair to the author, though.
Wait until this season to judge whether joe still has it and leave articles like this for pennlive.
Ben wrote a strong, even-handed piece.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I don’t agree with every point Ben made, but it was still a strong article. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this sort of thing, and this piece was a very respectable way to lead off the discussion.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree with that
this is an interminable discussion topic for psu football fans, and i think this was a good time to bring it up.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Yeah your right
I was frustrated because I read a very similar article on pennlive Sunday. I disagree that a transition plan is a good idea for Penn State. When Joe is no longer around the rest of the staff is leaving with him and speculating about a future head coach or flavor of the month nevers ends up anywhere. If Paterno says he is going to coach for 4-5 years he means it. So unless his health takes a turn for the worse or the powers that be push him out he will be around. He is not putting fans in an awkward position he is being honest with them. The best thing for the program is for him to go out on top and leave a healthy program. This season will show how good the coaching staff is. There are a lot of young talented players with experience, a favorable early schedule, low expectations and primetime opponent give the coaches the oppertunity to have a great season. If we go 6-6, 7-5 or 8-4 then Paterno’s contract will be up, STEP will have sucked the life out of the stadium, and Spanier can re-build his forces. If we get 10-12 wins we will have a great recruiting haul Joepa will get a four year extension and those that want him to leave will look at the recent body of work and forget last year.
Agreed. I've never understood the need for a "plan" at all.
Spanier and Curley have a plan. Here’s the plan – when Joe isn’t coaching anymore, we’ll run a coaching search and find the best available guy. We’ll probably hire a consultant. We’ll take some time, have very few real leaks, not have our hand forced by the media, and find a young, successful, energetic head coach.
It’s almost like they’ve done that before… :)
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"read an article on Pennlive Sunday"
Well that’s your problem right there, lol
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 1, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My take on Meyer as a hypothetical fit for the job.
I think it would work well. His players got in more legal trouble than we’d like to see, but he wasn’t under any pressure at Florida to rectify this. He’d obviously have a different mandate if he were to come to PSU, and I’m sure he’d have little trouble keeping his players more in line. Plus, he apparently stayed clean NCAA-wise even while winning in the SEC, which is a formidable accomplishment.
I think we can all agree that no matter what, we’d only want him to take the job if he felt like he could keep at it for 10+ years. Given that he’d have been out of coaching for a couple years by the time we made him the offer, I would think he’d be able to make that decision with clear judgment.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions
I like the idea of Dan Mullen right now, assuming he continues to impress at Miss State.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
But wasn't Mullen with Meyer at both Utah and Florida?
I know that you’re not making the point about Myer being tainted (I think Meyer would be a good hire), but I’m pretty sure Mullen learned a lot from Meyer and he was at Florida during all the player troubles. So he may not be quite as clean as everyone expects him to be either.
I still think that Meyer's a net plus, so I'm OK with this.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll go a bit further outside the Meyer/Mullen connection.
I think there are quite a few guys who could do the job well, chief among them being Jim Harbaugh (although that ship has clearly sailed), Pat Fitzgerald, Dan Mullen, and Al Golden. I’d certainly look at Chris Petersen too. I think there are several qualified candidates.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the Harbaugh ship has "clearly sailed"
Remember, Saban utterly failed as the Dolphins HC in between successful stints with LSU and Bama. No reason to think he absolutely won’t be available in 2-3 years.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as I can tell, there's been no trouble at Mississippi State under Mullen
So I’m fairly confident one of the skills he learned from Urban Meyer wasn’t “Teach your players to smoke a metric ton of weed, get drunk and then fall asleep behind the steering wheel at a red light on a Tuesday.”
Greyshirted No More
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
It'd be irresponsible not to speculate, though.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
In the 5+ years of the Fulmer Cup Mississiippi State has 26 Fulmer cup points
Thirteen happened during his tenure. I don’t know whether or not they were his recruited players.
They also reside in a place called “Starkvegas” so there’s that.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
If something seems to good to be true,
it probably is.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The impression seems a little too on the nose.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
YOUUU AREEEE
We’ve missed your crazy ass :)
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
no, it's rambler, i guarantee it
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
Great post...
And what makes it better is that I read it on BSD!! Im part of the Joe should have gone 10 years ago camp (as small as it may be on here) – but I won’t get into that.
Generally, I think PSU fans expectations for the next HC are too high. And we would be lucky to get a guy like Meyer. Who cares if he can’t coach more than 10+ years due to health – if he were to win a MNC in his first 5 years, while maintaining the positive image of PSU football and focus on education (all w/o cheating) – what else should we be wanting? I don’t need an ivy league grad to coach PSU football. I don’t need some guy to reinvigorate the success with honor motto. I don’t need the grand experiment part deux. I want a GREAT coach who wins us a championship and upholds the basic values that Penn state stands for (and I think that’s exactly what we’ll get).
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 12:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Rite Onn!
Eye agrrez wit u cuz paterno has not done nothin in 20 yearz. if we fires him we will win 8 national championships in the next for seasonz.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
WE'RE NOT ELITE!
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Oh oh. What are you trying to do?
Because whatever you are doing isn’t working, so you should troll harder
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Dang. You got me
You got the tater.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
You really shouldn't take your tater out in public
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
by Ben Jones on Aug 1, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is it okay if he does it from the privacy of his parents' basement?
/Giger’d
Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?
Then he'd be a fanboy
so yes..
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
o yas cuz paternoe is teh sux ands any1 else will win 8 national titles in for seasonz cuz itz that EZ
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Head spins around twice
and falls on the floor.
'Trivializing the "GREATEST RIVALRY OF ALL TIME" for a bunch of ghetto tats must have made them pee in their man-diapers.' Mr. Rosewater
Not funny anymore.
Please ban.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I'm pretty on board with you.
We can’t abandon high standards, but we can’t expect another JVP.
Joe Paterno was, is, and always will be Joe Paterno, and nobody will ever or could ever be Joe Paterno. It’s foolish to look for another one. I think those in charge of the next hire will realize this. I also, however, think that those in charge are well aware that we can never hire a Nick Saban or Lane Kiffin or Pete Carroll, and we never will.
A balance will be struck. Nobody will have the university-wide impact that Joe has had on Penn State. However, there are coaches who can coach at a high level and value doing things the right way. It’s just a matter of going out and getting those coaches to come here.
by psuwxman on Aug 1, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me put it to you like this.
Growing up I was a huge, huge, HUGE Larry Bird fan and Boston Celtics fan. Bird retired, but I continuted to root for the Celtics, even when they sucked. Then Boston got Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, won a championship in 2008, and were crippled by injuries in 2009 and 2010 that maybe kept them from winning three straight. But, even though none of them will ever be Larry Bird to me, their winning made me fall in love with the Celtics all over again.
The same applies here. There will never, ever, EVER be another Joseph Vincent Paterno. He’s from another time, another era. That doesn’t mean that we can’t love another coach who comes in here and wins while upholding our Penn State ideals and values. You can love more than one person without being disloyal.
so 1 mnc is all you care about?
and after that if the coach bails its no big deal and it was all worth it? what’s the point in that? 1 trophy and then we start all over again is not what I want from this program. I’d like someone who will be here to keep the ship going, not get his then get out.
I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
by skarocksoi on Aug 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I see two options for Penn State.
1) Hire someone like Meyer or Tony Dungy or some other established guy from the internet rumor mill who can lead the program for 2 or 3 seasons, move it out of Joe’s shadow, and maybe have big success in the short term. This would be an attractive option if the university wants to keep a lot of assistants on board and/or if it thinks the program is on the verge of a NC run. Then, when that guy is done, hire a more permanent replacement.
2) Hire a young gun who likely will want to bring in his own people, shake up the program, and build for long term success.
I’m fairly confident the school will think strategically about a replacement and stick to whatever plan it settles on. Under #2, that may mean living with some growing pains and not throwing the new guy overboard a la Michigan.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That short-term shadow is something
a lot of people overlook.
They say nobody wants to follow a legend; you want to be the guy AFTER the guy who follows the legend.
by psuwxman on Aug 1, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It may also quiet some of the inevitable criticism of Penn State's choice.
It’s hard to quibble with a solid, proven winner, but if you choose Mr. Potential #1 over Mr. Potential #2, there will be a lot of I-told-you-so’s if #1 struggles right away. I guess that would happen eventually no matter what, but a quasi-interim replacement buys the school some time.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Almost anybody...
but Tony Dungy.
@EstebanDAmur
Scott, things aren't as happy as they used to be down here at the unemployment office. Joblessness is no longer just for Philosophy majors - useful people are starting to feel the pinch.
by Esteban d' Amur on Aug 1, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Get his?
Wouldn’t a Championship benefit you as a fan, and the program, and the school? And I didn’t say I wanted 1 championship at all cost. And why do you need a coach to stay with the program for a set number of years? It would be ideal for a successful coach to stick around…but it’s unnecessary expectation IMO
by stewsplace on Aug 1, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it is very, very optimistic to say he can coach anywhere for 5 years.
Based on the previous situation, I don’t see how you can say he would last more than a season. He tried to retire, something wouldn’t let him (whether you say ego or desire or whatever else), and then in spite of some internal mechanism making him really want to keep coaching, he had to actually retire.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The talk radio clowns in South Louisiana
think that Nick Saban only has a 5-7 year shelf life in any job. Accordingly, they are convinced he is not long for Alabama. Guess where they think he lands next?
Talk about a warm and fuzzy guy — he makes Urban Meyer look like Bob Hope.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Your comments are nonsense
We can offer our opinions of when Joe should go and who should be next. Tim Curley wants your money buy not your two cents. They have all heard it before and still don’t care.
I Can’t wait for the season to start and annoying threads like this to stop.
by PSUinOH on Aug 1, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If this thread is annoying, you can stop reading.
Honestly. I swear, we won’t miss your brilliant contributions :)
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
The thread doesn't annoy me
As much as your opinion. The negativity that comes out of PSU chat boards is like no other.
I hate OSU fans with all my being. But the one thing they have over PSU is they support their team unconditionally. PSU fans could take a lesson and live in the moment and enjoy being part of a living legend.
I can’t wait for the season to start so people can start bitching about the QB play and Jaypa’s playcalling.
by PSUinOH on Aug 1, 2011 9:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People have been saying this for 10 years now
“PSU fans could take a lesson and live in the moment and enjoy being part of a living legend”
I’m kinda over it to be honest. I want to get back to when it was about the program and we were winning with more regularity.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
OSU fans can't afford to be too introspective
There’s your vital difference.
And I understand your point, you just have to note it’s the offseason.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
That's cute
Apparently you haven’t read the comments because my stance is yours, I love JoePa and will be sad when he leaves. I just don’t understand people that say they hate certain threads or whatever, yet feel compelled to say something. If it is that much of an annoyance, skip it. I hate TV talk shows so I don’t watch them.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
who lit your tampon's fuse?
It is kind of hard to get a grasp of your stance with comments like "Joe’s not as good as he once was " and “WE’RE NOT ELITE”. Furthermore, this was not a personal attack- “you” was meant in the plural sense. Perhaps I should have stated “yoozes guys”.
In summary- opinions are like a-holes, stay positive, can’t wait for the season to start, JoePa forver.
Good Day, Sir.
Did you ever hear
of Toby Keith’s song, “I’m not as good as I once was”? It was a tongue in cheek way of saying that Joe is still plenty good. And for the record, “we’re not elite” is a meme born out of an arugment last season debating the “eliteness” of certain national programs.
My stance as I said previously. I’m one of the positive ones on here:
Anyways, I’m enjoying having Joe coach for however long he has. I’ll miss him when he’s gone so I’m going to sit back and love every win and hate every loss all the same.
PS..pads are the way to go
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
"Joe Paterno may be holding captive Penn State's football program."
For me, he is the program. I’ll definitely be less interested in Penn State football after he’s gone, because so much of my interest in Penn State football is tied to him.
by BurrowesBldg on Aug 1, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think this is a great article and very well written.
I consider myself a pretty die-hard PSU fan and this is an arguement that I’ve been having for a little while. I don’t think that PSU can really look to move forward when they aren’t sure what Paterno is going to do. Either Joe decides to call it quits after this season or things are going to get a little messy. I can’t envision a scenario where the AD is going to want to give Paterno another contract extension. And even if they give him a 1 year deal, what does that do for our coaching staff? It was almost armageddon on here this past season when everyone thought Bradley, LJ, and Vandy were all going to leave. Why would they stick around for another season of uncertainty.
I think everyone is getting caught up on the Urban Meyer portion of the article (even though I think he would be a pretty good fit for PSU). I do think that the level of expectations is going to be too high moving forward. I agree that it’s a great calling card to be one of 2 or 3 programs with no major violations in program history, but it’s not like that is getting us recruits. If everyone on here was being honest with themselves, they would realize that they care about winning football games. It’s easy in the offseason to take the “higher road arguement”, but I’m pretty sure that the comment threads are not filled with happy people after each loss. The statement “it’s ok, we’re still really good academically and run a good program” is no where to be found after a loss to Iowa, Illinois, OSU or anybody else.
I’m all for Success with Honor and I love the fact that as a PSU fan we can cling to that idea, but let’s not kid ourselves and think that winning isn’t important. If PSU were to win 1 NC and 6 BIG 10 championships in a 10 year span with 1 major violation, I’m pretty sure nobody around here would stop rooting for PSU and start rooting for Stanford.
Speak for yourself
I’d stop. But thats because 1 major violation is typically a sign of a larger, more widespread problem. And like I’ve said before, if all I cared about was wins and losses, I’d watch the NFL.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your mother is so far her house required a new foundation.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
Far. And fat, too!
Yeah, I went in both directions!
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
Actually, and surprisingly, I completely I agree with you
But a school that has four (now likely 5) major violations and over 375 secondary violations in the past 11 years (!!!!) must have some SERIOUS issues.

(H/T to JNitt for the pic!)
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
by dawsonPSU10 on Aug 2, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think you are misinterpreting "Success with Honor".
A lot of people seem to think that it means “Honor, who cares if we win or not”. That isn’t the case.
The debate comes down to which we would sacrifice first: the success part or the honor part. For me, I’d sacrifice the success part first, because that’s a lot easier to build back up than the lack of honor. Once honor is gone, it is gone for a LONG time (if not forever).
In a labored analogy: would you rather be with a partner that you have great sex with, but they cheat and lie to you, or would you rather be with someone that is faithful, though perhaps a little boring and predictable in bed? If you HAD to choose one. Some people prefer one type, some prefer the other. Personally I’d rather someone who didn’t leave me all diseased and feeling cheap and used.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
(though to extend the tired analogy)
sometimes it is nice to have a quick, carefree, no strings attached fling after a long, intense relationship.
Since we all know that no one wants to follow a legend, maybe it wouldn’t be bad to go out and experiment with some easygoing, freestyling partners for a bit. However, that’s not what I want long term. And I definitely don’t want any shady dealings or corruption.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with Physicist & JuggerNitt
I would go from die-hard fan with four season tickets to casual fan with maybe two, selling half of them at a loss every season.
I am proud to be a Penn Stater, and Penn State fan. And I wouldn’t buy merch, or tout the team, if we had a major violation. I just wouldn’t. And I’m pretty sure I’m nowhere near alone.
Fire Dan Snyder
Who says they don't know what they're going to do, or how long Joe is going to stay?
They may know full well and they just ain’t telling anybody.
And not to be morbid, but another factor that does have to be addressed is that Joe could just suddenly drop over any day. He is 84. He’s in fantastic shape for his age, but it is a definite possibility. Do you think that Curley and Spanier don’t have a contingency plan for this scenario? Again, I’m not trying to be a creep, but at 84, it is entirely possible that everytime we log on to BSD there could be the headline “He’s gone.” I hope not.
well, technically it is entirely possible that that headline could be written about anyone,
but yes, it is a bit more probable for an octogenarian.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I still say he will die on the field in 10 years
and be buried under the 50. Then PSU can have that Asian company make a cast of JoePa and stand it outside the stadium. Sort of like Texas did


"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Okay, enough.
Stop with the multiple account posting, or have them all banned.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We just want to know
if this is skins’ ghost.
'Trivializing the "GREATEST RIVALRY OF ALL TIME" for a bunch of ghetto tats must have made them pee in their man-diapers.' Mr. Rosewater
Now boys and girls.....
just stop this bickering…you can come onto my lawn…..no guns, just strategically placed land mines leftover from Nam.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
That was YOUR lawn
I wandered onto coming back from the bars that night? I LOST MY LEGS BECAUSE YOU, DERRY. WHAT THE HECK.
For the sake of this thread and tBSD.....
I have no ordinance in my yard…..in my house is another story. Actually I’m a pretty happy and friendly old man with a storybook background.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
by DerryPharmer on Aug 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing I remember finding buried on your lawn is Easter eggs
And they were full of coins and candy. Though some of the candy may have been Pop Rocks, so explosives? Possibly.
by Big Beefer on Aug 1, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good article, thought provoking
I don’t agree Joe is holding anything about PSU captive. I will admit to having doubts last year when he didn’t appear well and the team seemed to lack direction but even though the team didn’t perform to its capabilities in the bowl game, I thought Joe looked much better. I also think the sitdown with the Boldens fired him up againt too. Joe has come out this year looking great, will it last, hope so, can he make 4 or 5 more like he says? Does that really matter? I think (and I love this) Spurley has a plan for post Joe, and I think they are on top of it constantly because you don’t know what will happen tomorrow. I have been in the court that Joe can coach as long as he wants but if he physically is as worn out as he appeared at times last year then I will be in the “its time” crowd. I also am not going to worry about what to do after Joe till that time comes. I occasionally think about who I might like to see replace him but its usually only when something like this article appears because I don’t see Joe as holding the program back. What ifs are just that. What PSU has is Joe and that is a known. Unknowns can be better or worse.
On the whole Meyer thing, I think Ben’s suggestion has been a bit overblown, its just someone he likes and thinks about as a replacement. I am not in the Meyer fanclub but that is because he burned out with health issues at Fla. Why would we want to hire and pay someone and then expect less of a commitment from him at PSU than he gave to Fla. I would say he won there because of the stress it took to take a program to the top. I’m a bit meh on the discipline issue, arrests happen at all schools. I was much more critical of how he handled the entire Tebow media explosion and was part of the hype machine of “goodness” surrounding one player on his team. I don’t care how much he cared for TT, he still made one player bigger than the team and that irked me a tad, though I still just don’t want the “half” Meyer coaching because its easier at PSU, bullcrap its easier and more laid back than Fla, PSU should not expect someone to come in and work less hard than they did to win elsewhwere, that is what I don’t want.
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Aug 1, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well written and.....
I, for one, do NOT envy Joe’s replacement and the older Joe gets, the more stubborn he becomes and it does make it harder for the program. But I do know one thing, Joe would NEVER do anything to hurt or embarass PSU and the speculation is really something that has to be talked about simply because of this unique situation.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
I'm going to enjoy Joe as long as he is here
I also think he has earned the right to stay and do when he sees fit. I too, would rather have some meh seasons than push him out in a bid for an immediate MNC.
I know Ben was using UM as an example. I don’t necessarily dislike him. His Fauvresque behavior towards retirement does bother me. I want someone we can count on, or count on as much as you can in today’s environment. My biggest fear is a total change in culture when he leaves. Not that we will become The U, but a lax attitude towards grades, etc.
There is no precedent for this. When was the last time a coach with this kind of tenure had to face retirement? FSU mucked their chance at dignity (lol) with the whole coach in waiting thing.
Well written article Ben.
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
the whole "coach in waiting" thing
that, or, you know, the cheating scandal. Mucking!!! Dignity?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I put lol after Dignity
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
Not that they had much to start with
Free Shoes, yo!
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
The question I'd like to ask is:
When was the last time Joe Paterno talked about winning a National Championship. His tone now is far away from what it was in the 70s and 80s. The guy can go when he wants, but don’t kid yourself into thinking he’s half the coach he once was
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
College football and the way you get to an MNC is different than it was in the 70's and 80's
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
That doesn't mean you have to stop talking about it for 30 years.
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Exactly
I’d bet the last time Joe talked about winning a national championship was January 1, 1995… you know… the last time he earned one but didn’t get it.
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
by AdamShell on Aug 1, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which Means
One has to adapt to the changed landscape. IMO our last serious MNC contender was the 1994 team.
Of course
Joe has never shown the ability to adapt. Naked pictures of each PSU president is how he has managed to coach for 45 year and counting.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Umm... 2009?
To quote Jay, who was quoting Joe:
And Joe said, ‘Hey, look guys, we lost two games and that’s all I’m worried about. I’ve never been a coach who’s been content going 11-1.’ He said, ‘I want to win them all. I want to win the national championship. That’s the one that we should talk about.’ And that’s his goal every year. We’ll look at that and say, ‘We need to improve.’ We could have scored two more points at Iowa City and we’re playing in the national championship. None of us are content with what we did last year. It’s going to be a situation where we try and push and get better and better.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We were .01 seconds away in 2005 and a terrible PI call in 2008 from playing for a NC
It’s not like playing for a NC is a complete pipe dream for our program.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes it is
because…
recruiting stars?
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
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- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
by AdamShell on Aug 1, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that...is...awesome!!!!
I especially hope it is unexplained like a crop circle.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
trolls get hit with a bunny here, Adam is in charge of the distribution of said bunnies
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
BSD Bunnymaster
Except I set that one up myself.
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
2005 is frustrating
because a) even if we had gone 12-0, we still would have ended up left out of the title game, and b) even with the one loss, we should have been in the title game over the cheating, retroactively-stripped USC.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
2008 is also frustrating
since there were no undefeated teams at the end of the season, but there were a bunch of 11-1 teams, including us. We had just as strong a claim to play for the MNC as anyone else; we just got passed over.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Scirrotto did commit pass interference. But your point holds that we were very close to playing for a title that year.
Worth noting that we would’ve matched up better against that year’s Florida or Oklahoma than we did against USC
I just went back to rewatch.
It was 3rd and 15 on their own 24, with 2:59 left in the game, Penn State up 23-21. 23 MPH winds with the offense. Stanzi drops back to about the 20 yard line, fires it down the right side. The TE crosses, and Scirrotto is cutting across the 50 yard line, drops back to our 48 yard line, jumps straight up for the ball that was slightly overthrown, the TE runs into Scirrotto just before the ball gets there, the ball bounces off of Scirrotto’s arm, and falls incomplete.
Now I’m not exactly sure about the PI rules, but I was under the impression that the defender had as much right to the ball as the receiver, and considering he held his own ground, had the TE run into HIM, knocked the ball essentially out of Scirrotto’s possession, it just seems like it shouldn’t have been pass interference. Granted that is a tough call to make for any ref, especially at full speed, but it is a sucky call to make to end an undefeated team’s championship season (yeah yeah, maybe Iowa would have been able to complete another 15+ yard pass on 4th down with 23 MPH winds, though maybe they would have punted there with almost 3 min left and 3 TOs).
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The defender certainly has a right to the ball, so long as he doesn’t impede the receiver’s right to the ball as well. And watching it for the second time today, I do believe Anthony initiated contact with the receiver before the ball arrived to either. Easy call for the ref.
I still think that what killed us that day was the Clark fumble in the 1st Q that set up an easy TD for them, and Clark’s INT later in the game. Lot of mistakes that game on our end prohibited us from winning, regardless of the pass interference call.
As I said, I don't know the PI rules and interpretations well enough
but the way my (perhaps homer biased) view interprets it is that if you establish your space (and if anything are running away from the receiver), jump up to catch the ball, and the receiver runs into YOU, then it should be a no call (or heck, even offensive PI).
If the rule is that the receiver has the right to the ball so much that you can’t hold your own ground to try to get the ball, and that if you do YOU are the one committing PI, then yes, Scirrotto committed PI.
I guess the difference is that you see it as Anthony initiating contact, while I see it as Anthony jumping for the ball and the TE initiating contact.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
and from the rulebook specifically
Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone
during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the
neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player. It is
the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents. It is not
offensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-VI, VII, XIII, XVIII and XIX):
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-XII).
3. When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area
where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in
that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.
That’s for offensive pass interference. This next section covers defensive pass interference:
c. Defensive pass interference is contact beyond the neutral zone by a Team B
player whose intent to impede an eligible opponent is obvious and it could
prevent the opponent the opportunity of receiving a catchable forward
pass. When in question, a legal forward pass is catchable. Defensive pass
interference occurs only after a legal forward pass is thrown. It is not
defensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-I, IV, V, IX-XI, XIV and XV):
RULE 7-3 / SNAPPING AND PASING THE BAL FR-105
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-XII).
and then
Each player has territorial rights, and incidental contact is ruled under "attempt to reach…the pass’’ in Rule 7-3-8. If opponents who are beyond the line collide while moving toward the pass, a foul by one or both players is indicated only if intent to impede the opponent is obvious. It is pass
interference only if a catchable forward pass is involved (A.R. 7-3-9-).
I pruned out the parts that didn’t apply.
From this, Scirrotto was definitely making a bona fide attempt at catching the ball. I don’t even know if he saw the TE coming (though I’m sure he knew some receiver was in the area), but it doesn’t matter. He wasn’t making an attempt to impede or prevent the TE from catching the ball (other than preventing the TE from catching it by catching it himself). It should NOT have been ruled pass interference, but unfortunately the refs aren’t perfect, and it was. Penn State still had other chances to not lose/win the game and failed, but such is life.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fair enough, agree to disagree
StiIl think Scirrotto jumped too soon, which means it wasn’t a “bonafide simultaneous” effort to catch the ball by both players.
Penn State still had other chances to not lose/win the game and failed, but such is life.
Indeed.
the ball hit Scirrotto, not the TE. Who had the best chance at the ball. Its that simple.
My grammer skills need improved.
This appealed to my lawyer sense
I was never that angry about the PI call. Until now.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do you initiate contact when you're in the air
And jumped straight up?
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Ah
Apparently Scirrotto should have stayed on the ground and just left the TE catch the ball. Silly me.
Not trying to internet fight, agree to disagree as you said before. That play just gets me.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
My final comment on this, I promise
Hey, we agreed below on the merits of the ’05 defense! :)
I’ve watched the clip like 5 times today and I keep seeing Anthony jump early before the ball is playable by either the TE or him. Doing so impeded the receiver’s right to the ball, in my humble opinion. Either way, a winnable game lost because of miscues as early as the first quarter when we handed them a TD because Mitch King dominated Ohrnberger and Clark probably should’ve thrown the ball away.
Perhaps an interesting side note: while Ohrnberger handled King in the home game the year prior, on the road with croud noise etc. Rich could not handle King as well, which caused us some problems that game (including the aforementioned fumble). This should have been moot as Wisniewski and Ohrnberger switched guard spots between ’07 and ’08, but they were switched back before that game because Wiz was banged up.
A lot of micro factors contributed to that loss, which is why I am personally hesitant to point fingers at officiating.
I remember
PSU dominating Iowa in the first half, yet only being up 13-7 or 9-6 or whatever it happened to be. My dad and I were terrified that PSU was continually in the redzone but always settling for FGs. Alas, are fears came true.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
just walk the 100 yds and bring your computer over and have a Victory Hop Devil. Just put a case in the fridge.
My grammer skills need improved.
I don't see the "jump early"
To me it appears he timed the jump almost perfectly so the ball would reach him at the apex of his jump (remember, the ball was a bit overthrown).
Scirrotto around the 47.5 yard line

47 yard line (even though the camera angle makes it look like he moves into the TE, they’re both actually moving downfield, just the camera is panning still)

still 47 yard line

starts the jump, around the 46.5 yard line, ball is in frame

Contact! (still moving upward)

About the apex of the jump (around 46 yard line). Hard to tell, partly cuz he’s reaching for the ball, partly because he has a TE running into his hips, though his momentum is still clearly carrying him slightly downfield.

Ball hits Scirrotto in facemask/left shoulderpad at the apex of his jump. Contact is driving him downfield, still about the same height he was in previous shot.

Ball knocked loose around the 45 yard line. Players starting to fall down, moving downfield.

Afterward the players land around the 43 yard line, the ball lands offscreen around the 41-39 yard line (image not shown)
If anything, if he DOESN’T jump, then it doesn’t look like he’s making a play for the ball and just running into the TE.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Jerry Meals would have said there was no contact at all
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 1, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This is some effort right here! So I'll comment again I guess....
He’s making a play on the ball before the ball has even arrived to either him or the tight end (fourth picture). He could have elected a more cautious route and stayed behind the tight end and swatted the ball away later, but he instead he planted (third picture), jumped (fourth picture), which led to the contact that, whether one likes it or not, interfered with the TE’s ability to make a play on the ball (and he’s all over him. This wasn’t a 50/50 ball as a result, the TE was denied any ability to make a play on the ball because of an action Anthony took before the ball could possibly be caught by either man.
Still, that call was not why we lost. That game shouldn’t have been that close anyway, but too many miscues before that made it that way.
The offensive player does not have the right to not get touched
Scirrotto made the play on the ball first, and the TE ran into him. If anything, by the book, that’s offensive pass interference. Scirrotto was in position to make the play, and didn’t initiate contact. How is that DPI?
NittanyWhiteOut.com. Arguably the second best Penn State blog I know of.
by Devon Edwards on Aug 2, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Devon is absolutely correct
should have been OPI. The defender beat the player to the spot, did not impede and was making a play on the ball when the offensive player initiated the contact. Scirrotto did not initiate contact and did not impede the offensive player’s run to the ball, the ball was thown to him and the contact by the TE caused the break up. Pictures 4 and 5 show the offensive player hitting the defender while not making a legit play on the ball, could have easily been a no call but definitely not DPI.
My grammer skills need improved.
Also, if Scirrotto is the offensive player, then who is the penalty on?
My grammer skills need improved.
That would be a weird route
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
No
I pointed out in my previous comments that it is impossible for Anthony to be “making a play on the ball” when the ball isn’t there yet. He jumped early, then was on top of the TE, preventing the TE from ever being able to make a play on the ball.
But please, proceed with the cognitive dissonance.
The pictures show he timed his jump perfectly and is touching the ball before the offensive player was in a position to jump
he also jumped straight in the air while the offensive player changed his route angle to adjust for the overthrow
My grammer skills need improved.
yeah, I wasn't trying to harp on this specific play as to why we lost.
As I stated earlier, there were many other lost opportunities (and the tempo was definitely set with that fumble in the endzone that probably should have been an Iowa TD (or safety…I forget who had possession, but it appeared to be in the endzone if I recall correctly. And I refuse to rewatch that play).
I just wanted to clarify the call of that play in particular, because I think a lot of people misinterpret pass interference (me included). According to the rulebook, neither play has a right to the ball, so just because Anthony made a play first does not mean that he was interfering with the TE. As Devon and BMAN point out, if anything the TE interfered with Scirrotto’s ability to catch the ball by making contact with him prior to the ball arriving (as quoted in the rules above, “It is
the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents”. Of course any ref making that call would likely get skewered by the home crowd.
Anyway, I think this tangent has run its course, so I’ll drop it. It was almost 3 years ago, and I’m over it. I just wanted to go back and rewatch (had been avoiding that game like the plague for obvious reasons), to see if what I saw in the stands was accurate or not.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 2, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the first image of that horrible day I've seen in a few years
pardon me while I go curl in the fetal position and cry
"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
I'm very late, I know
But I think your view on the PI call in question is, with respect, not consistent with the rules and, more importantly, if it were, I think it would be very bad for the game because it would make it even harder for defenders to, you know, defend.
"Nein, ich bin Schnappi das kleine Krokodil."
by ReadingRambler on Aug 5, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember thinking it was an atrocious call
But then again I’m extremely biased, so of course I would think that.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
2005 & 2008
In 2005 both USC and Texas were undefeated. Had we beaten Michigan we would have been like Auburn the year before-left out. As for 2008 our Rose Bowl performance made it clear that we were not a serious MNC contender.
NC's take really great teams, and a whole lot of luck
Look at 2008. If the PI on Scirotto isn’t called, we finished unbeated and play Oklahoma for the title. I like our chances much more than against the USC team we played in the Rse Bowl.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mark Sanchez-led pro-passing system
Was literally the worst possible matchup for us that season. Not guaranteeing we would have beaten OU or UF, but we would have played a hell of a game.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
People seem to always forget that there's no transitive property in sports
This isn’t geared at you Omar, just using our conversation here as a springboard.
Downthread a little bit someone says that 2008 vs. USC shows that we would have been crushed in 2005 if we made the MNC game. Now, that’s stupid for other reasons, but let’s focus just on one: the outcome is determined by one team lining up across from the other and having the strength, weaknesses, mismatches, good luck, bad luck, and outside influences come to bear.
YOU CAN NEVER USE THE RESULTS OF ONE GAME TO SPECULATE WHAT THE RESULTS OF SOME OTHER GAME WOULD HAVE BEEN.
Not within the same season. And definitely not across different season, involving different teams.
We did not have a very good chance to beat USC, given our relative strengths and weaknesses that year. We would have matched up much better with Florida, even though they were technically a higher-ranked team.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Funny you mention the transitive property
I was in the Pond Lab the Monday after Oregon State beat USC. Two nerdy grad students were actually joking that because the Beavers beat USC and we smoked them, we would beat USC because of the transitive property.
They were having fun of course. And they were right: we got beat by USC in the Rose Bowl.
Frazier beats Ali; Foreman knocks out Frazier; Ali knocks out Foreman…
And Tebow was not Mark Sanchez for damn sure.
Re: 2008
Yes, USC was absolutely the better team, and in my eyes has as much of a claim to the National Championship that year as Florida, Texas, and Utah.
However, when the regular season ended, you had seven schools from BCS conferences all with one loss (plus Boise State and Utah undefeated). As far as I’m concerned, they all were equally deserving of a shot to play for the National title. We were one of those seven, and we all got shuffled into bowl games in an essentially random process. Florida got a relatively easy draw against Oklahoma in the title game, and we got a brutal draw against USC. Had we swapped places with Florida, maybe they’d have lost to USC and we’d have beaten Oklahoma; hell, maybe Utah would have beaten any of us.
My point is that in 2008, the National Title was decided by the luck of the draw more than anything else; we caught a bad draw, and we lost to a better team. But we were still very much National Title contenders.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
exactly!
it was also a bit of a rock-paper-scissors scenario, and it is impossible to tell who the BEST of the 1 loss teams (or Utah) was. I think we beat Oklahoma and Texas easily, I think we are a draw against Florida, and I thought we would have matched up better against USC (and maybe we would have if Royster doesn’t get injured…or maybe we still get demolished)
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly can't find the top of this thread
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
I found it.
I’ll try my best not to
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Are you not aware of the functionality of the "up" link?
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
I like to use my hands
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Just make sure you "use your hands" when you're not hosting a live video chat with BSD people
- BSD Bunnymaster (Thanks Paige)
- The only Adam on this blog who doesn't actually write for it.
When I think of the future of this program
football is the last thing I’ll worry about. Penn State does not fit into a stereotype when it comes to football. We’ve got speed, we’ve got skill… we start true freshmen at quarterback, we care about seniority… we run up the middle on first down, we run up the middle on second down, we run up the middle on third down (ok, that’s kind of a stereotype), but occasionally we’ll throw in a shotgun set.
Football under Paterno has changed because he wants to win. I do not care about the style of football that Penn State plays… I just want it to try to be competitive.
What hasn’t changed under Paterno? Success with honor. Zero major violations. Academic importance.
Change any one of those things, or even hint at it, and that’s an offense worthy of firing the coach plus a self imposed 2-year bowl ban for all I care. Football style isn’t what makes us Penn State. We are Penn State because of our pride, our team mentality, and our honor… take that away and I’d rather not cheer for Penn State at all.
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by AdamShell on Aug 1, 2011 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
But are we elite? #insidejoke
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
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WE ARE NOT VIRGINIA TECH!
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hits Template
1. Select Joe Paterno Retirement Topic Card from Rolodex
2. Type furiously.
3. ??
4. Profit
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
by MainLion on Aug 1, 2011 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
All the way to the bank
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Those BSD Bucks are redeemable for Stanley Nickels only.
Void where prohibited.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
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@AdamCollyer
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No Schrute Bucks?
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
has to be better than leprechauns to unicorns
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
Yes, but the leprechaun has been devalued pretty steadily
ever since Notre Dame started using it as their mascot. Meanwhile, the value of the unicorn has skyrocketed with the addition of the donkeycorn to the genus.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The tragic thing about success
is that the drive that gets you there refuses to quit when you’re no longer able to do the job. I grew up with JoePa, I’ll miss him when he’s gone, but this article is spot on. I hope this is his last year, letting the program decay slowly isn’t how I want to remember him.
by PaternoStateU on Aug 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this assumes that he will let the program decay slowly.
Where is the evidence this is happening?
Last year was a down year, yes, but those have happened before under Paterno (1992, 1988, 1984, 1976, 1970, 1966). The dark years were by far the worst stretch in PSU history, but those also started over a decade ago, and ended 7 years ago.
National Championships? Well if we’re going by that, then JoePa only had one successful 5 year stretch.
Stolen National Championship (attempts)? 2005 we were the 2nd best eligible team in the country, but didn’t get to play in the game. 2008 we were as good (record and talent wise) as pretty much any team in the country (USC deservedly whomped us, but they could have beaten anyone in any bowl), and didn’t get to play in the game.
Even if Joe DOES stay another 4-5 years, I don’t think he’d be here long enough to let the program decay slowly.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We would have gotten crushed in 05
2008 is a good example of that
by PaternoStateU on Aug 1, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, I didn't know that 2005 Texas has 2008 USC's players
or that 2005 PSU had 2008 PSU’s players.
Learn something new every day.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So Vince Young would have went for 400 yards?
Texas won because USC was undisciplined and left him run for 200 yards. Without those yards on the ground, Texas doesn’t win. That defense was solid gold.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
So very true
Our ’05 D was superior to the ’08 D. Better D-Line, much better linebackers. Not to mention Zemaitis, Anwar, Lowry, and Harrell were much more solid than Davis, Sargent, Rubin and Scirrotto
That '05 defense
was one of the best defenses of my lifetime. At least that I can remember and talk about. Those DB’s weren’t the biggest or the fastest, or even the best cover corners but man would they lay you out.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
rewatching the Orange Bowl recently
one of the announcers even said he thought it was the best secondary in the nation. When does THAT get said about us?
Fire Dan Snyder
That was probably Herbstreit
And just from memory I recall either Danielson or Griese (both were with ABC at the time, both were both college QBs at Purdue and both sound the same in my opinion) during the Purdue game saying that PSU, Miami, Texas and Va. Tech had the best four secondaries in the country that year.
That secondary was the truth.
What Zemaitis did to Henne
was AWESOME. That was a Grown Ass Man defensive play. Gimme the ball and get out of my way!
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I have not.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
There is absolutely no way that Penn State would have lost to Texas.
Penn State’s defense, actually, our entire team was better than Ohio State. Ohio State was one dropped catch away from probably winning that game.
By the way, I think Ohio State would have beaten USC that year in the Monsanto Scum City Bowl.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The only evidence we have is from one year - last year.
The complaints are all recent, and they all seem to ignore that as recently as 2007 – as recently as this spring – Penn State, from Joe Paterno to the players, have shown the ability and the desire to fix things.
I mean, my word, people, am I really supposed to believe that Penn State is slowly decaying when we we are actually one of the more successful programs out there?
Oh, and especially important to me is the fact that we’re going to be good this year.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The other source of evidence is, by and large, recruiting.
And I haven’t seen enough to convince me it’s really that bad anyway. It’s inconsistent, and not as good as certain cheaters or Florida, but it’s not terrible or else Silas Redd would be playing in some dump like Morgantown or wherever UConn plays.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome.
When people start using the state of recruiting to support their argument, they’ve already lost. No one knows how these kids are going to turn out.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
megryanwhenharrymetsally.gif
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The more I think about it
I think the first sentence should probably read, “Success with honor keeps putting Penn State fans in a difficult situation.” Much of the post is about the inherent difficulty of being truly successful (i.e. competing for a national championship every year) in today’s college football while running a clean program.
That’s how it should be. If it was easy, everyone would do it. The difficulty of the “Penn State Way” is precisely what makes the PSU program special and why we should seek to live up to it, despite its inherent difficulty.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Aug 1, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
This. FTW.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Waah. We really need to start cheating, then we’d get news and not argue over the same argument every off season.
#thisissoold
It will only stop when we get a new head coach, which for one, I don’t want Joe to go.
Have him die on the field after the MNC game,he deserves it.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
about the only fitting end to JoePa's legacy
would be for him to win the MNC, and swallow the crystal trophy, using it to power some special rockets that grow out of his ass, shooting him off into space. Not much else will be able to match his accomplishments.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I don't laugh outloud very often
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
by Ben Jones on Aug 1, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But when I do, I prefer BSD
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Will he stop by the moon to see the whales?

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
by xozte on Aug 1, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My Perfect Ending for JoePa
Penn State scores a late go-ahead TD in the BCS Title Game against LSU/Bama/Florida/other SEC team with about 3 minutes remaining. On the ensuing drive, we get a pick-six to seal the game just before time expires. As the clock hits 0:00, the song “Simply the Best” by Tina Turner starts to play on the loudspeaker. JoePa then jumps up with his fist held high, then freezes mid-air.
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just change Simply the Best to Don't Stop Believin'
then it all goes black
\Soprano’d
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
does he literally freeze mid air?
Will this be for eternity? Will all future games played at that stadium forever have to have the “JoePa” rule where he would be akin to the old goalposts in the middle of the endzone and plays would have to adapt to his position?
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 1, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good, thought provoking questions
Yes, he does literally freeze in mid-air. However, he would defy the laws of gravity for 3 or minutes, before landing. Then he would go about his usual activities.
When asked about it later he would say “Ehhh, I think I did a pretty good job of defying gravity. I don’t know, it could be better. There’s still a long ways to go. These kids are really great though.”
by Jared Slanina on Aug 1, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter
by xozte on Aug 1, 2011 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Had to be a Florida license plate...
Just knew it.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
/does tomahawk chop from great beyond
Greyshirted No More
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
by Peter Gray on Aug 1, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I used to think
that Nietzsche’s notion of the Eternal Recurrence was horseshit. After a few of these “what to do with/after JoePa” threads, I’m beginning to reconsider.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Aug 1, 2011 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nietzsche once said....
“out of chaos come order.” and the response was, “Blow it out your ass, Howard.”
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
by DerryPharmer on Aug 1, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
As a Browns fan I can assure all of you
that a football team that starts every game with a legitimate chance of winning (Penn State, year in and year out, aside from the dark years) is nothing to take lightly.
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
You're a Browns fan?
Hold on a second, let me do this right.
Wait..
Wait…
Here we go…
SNICKER!
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It helps me keep an even keel about the Penn State stuff.
I mean the Browns are horrible.
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
I know what you mean
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something about Ohio on which we can agree!
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
Expediency
I guess we need to do this exact thread every so often to track who sits on which side of the fence regarding this issue? Perhaps we could just add a line to the profile info for each member, and keep a running tally in the margin?
Alea jacta est...
here is where I sit...and yes, it's me
with all due respect to the legend that is Joe Paterno (and he is due a lot), I find him to be a distraction and a detriment to the program for the following reasons:
1. As much as PSU tries to push the Penn State Football brand, it’s stil clear to anyone familiar with the program that Penn State Football is synonomous with Joe Paterno. The media pushes this like crazy, PSU still pushes it, and to be honest, JoePa inadvertantly pushes it because he’s just been around so long. Having your program and your school become synonomous with one person is a risky proposition.
2. Joe is too loyal/stubborn/insert adjective here to fire underperforming assistant coaches. Our staff has a numer of dinosaur assistants who haven’t contributed to the success of the program in a decade.
3. Joe does not actively visit recruits and his aging staff doesn’t hit the pavement as hard as their counterparts at other institutions. You can’t tell me assistants in their 60’s and at the end of their career are as active as assistants in their 30’s in the beginning of their careers.
4. Simply put – we underperform. If you look at our record agaisnt the big ten, we come up short against the Michigan’s, OSU’s and Iowas and we come up short against top 25 teams. There is no Success with Honor when there is no success.
I don't believe in ghosts
Oh Hai brd119!
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
I agree with you on several of the points
I think we could do better, but even for what the staff does right now, they’ve done a pretty good job of putting a competitive team on the field since 2004. I don’t want to hustle JoePa out the door because we’re winning 7-8 games a year instead of 11-12 you know?
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
2005 is a rather arbitrary point of reference, don't you think?
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree.
If you are going to go beyond a full cycle of students, 4-5 years in CFB, you really need to rope in an entire track record. For Joe, anything other than ’06 forward, or his entire career seems very arbitrary.
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I don't think since joining of a conference is arbitrary considering all thin things associated
with it
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So you think that .625 in the conference is underachieving?
Given how the clear leader since then put their teams together, I just can’t be upset about it. A clear second best team in the conference, of the teams that didn’t sell their soul during that time.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok...
Well then going back to JoePa’s first season, PSU has won 401 games and 2 National Championships
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
and Army used to dominate college football. I don't understand your point?
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying to figure out what isn't an arbitrary cut off point
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
It's stats...you can break it down any way you see fit to attempt to support
whatever argument you’re trying to make.
On the whole, JoePa is one of the best ever. Recently history suggests the game has passed him by.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Which wasn't your argument
You said competitive, and by and large, Joe Paterno coached teams have been competitive.
Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
Recently history suggests the game has passed him by.
Not if we start from 2005 on. Of course, that really depends on your definition of recent. In college football, I’d say anything greater than 5 years isn’t recent. And that isn’t arbitrary, thats the career length of a college football player/class
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
of course
During that the past 5 years, OSU was dominating our conference. Of course, they were cheating their balls off and will vacate all of those wins. So, throwing out the obvious cheaters, PSU in the past 5 seasons has been consistent. They won the Big10 once, while only two other teams have legitimately won it as well (both last year)
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
The point in all of this
Is that JoePa has fielded legitimate teams within college football’s recent history. Without Ohio State getting a competitive advantage by refusing to follow the rules, a substantive argument can be made that PSU was the class of the Big10. I fail to see how recent history can suggest the game has passed him by in light of this.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
Cry about it
like everyone on 11 Warriors does.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
wouldn't 2005 be 6 years? 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Take that out. Still a pretty solid showing
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
And
it doesn’t do anything to change my point
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
I guess... 1 big ten title and an average of 3 losses a season
and a below .500 record against ranked teams…
depends on what “solid” means to you
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
One Big Ten title is tied for second most.
You can’t even acknowledge that that is solid?
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on how you define solid...seriously
I call it expected
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you remove the Ohio State games
when calculating those numbers?
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Well, thats fair. But its only self imposed, and we’ll have to see what the NCAA has to say when its all said and done. The point is, they’ve been cheating since 2001, from the moment Tressel set foot on campus. Of course, the record books won’t reflect that, but every conversation that I have with an OSU alumn or fan will reflect that from here on out.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
"they’ve been cheating since 2001, from the moment Tressel set foot on campus" Seriously? That is some planet-sized ignorance.
As noted above, PSU would be lucky to have Jim Tressel as your next Head Coach.
LOL.
Go build a parade float for the scumbag.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
Whoops TOO LATE!

"Hey Joe, don't worry about the guys we lose. Only make sure the guys you bring in here belong here, and they're coming here for the right reasons." - Rip Engle to Joe Paterno
If Jim Tressel
became coach at PSU, I would never root for PSU in any sport again. This is not hyperbole, this is truth.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 3, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
They are vacating the 2010 season. I am vacating every game they ever played during the Tressel era.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Honestly, I kind of like this method.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1 for both of you
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I've already taken that method
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Clarett, Smith, Pryor… that covers just about his entire career at OSU.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Smith is clearly the least dirty player on that list
and yet he would also be the dirtiest (known) player to have come through Penn State.
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 2, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer "realists gonna be realistic".
But to each his own.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriousely, I think you are in the wrong place.
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
does it matter? I saw the games and they beat us.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
And I saw the little league world series when the 14 year old played. I also watched Barry Bonds hit more homeruns than anyone in history. I watched Floyd Landis win the tour de france a few years ago.
If all you care about are wins and results, then sure. They beat us. But I’d rather lose with honor than win like a dirty cheater. Winning is empty when it isn’t earned/deserved.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This says the most to me about what you value in a CFB program.
You say you care about doing things the right way, and that we should still be able to win. But, in my opinion, if you feel that way then you care more about winning than doing things the right way.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
and this is based on what, exactly?
because I said I saw us lose to OSU?
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that's what you said.
And you did it in a reply to someone that was pointing out that they built those teams by turning a blind eye to compliance. What that implies is that you don’t care about turning a blind eye to compliance, or worse, if you can see the team win on the field.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take a good look Michael
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please don
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it's the last time you're gonna see these
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
taste the happy Michael
BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
it kind of tastes like sad
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
please don't
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
expected, as far as I’m concerned is solid. Do I believe that we could do better? Yes. But I believe that luck has as much to do with that as the other deficiencies that you point out.
But thats the point, isn’t it? Its expected. And, JoePa is meeting your expectations while maintaining academic integrity. What more do you want? Would you like to sell our principles for an extra win a season? Personally, I’ll take an average of 3 losses a season, including a one loss season with a chance at the MNC. Especially since our team is going to be good this year and great next year.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
this is maybe one of the most frustrating things about
a certain faction of PSU alums/fans….what makes you think we have to walk away from our principles to achieve a better record on the field?
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
and what is a "chance" for a MNC?
did we play in the MNC game?
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
2008
This debate has already been hashed further up the thread.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
unless you actually played in the MNC, you did
not have a chance.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
So Penn State didn't have a chance in 94?
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
there was no MNC game in 94, and PSU was ranked
#2, so yeah, I’ll say that we had a chance for a MNC. A significant chance.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
What does the M stand for?
They didn’t play for it – that’s your criterion.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If you begin your definition by playing in the game
but I believe that you have a shot at the game, if you have the same record as a handful of other teams from major conferences and you don’t make it in because of the way the game is voted for.
Ask Auburn how they felt in 2004. Of course, they didn’t have a chance because they didn’t play. But does that diminish an undefeated season? Should they not have gotten a shot? Does arguing over semantics really change the point?
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
When one is frustrated because one expects a title every five years, and the expectation is met,
that’s what we call champagne problems.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why you clash with so many of us on this site
As much as I would like that, I think it is unrealistic.
I don’t fault you for having those types of hopes, but please show me one college football program that meets those expectations.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Because
I don’t believe there are any clean college football programs out there that are even remotely close to meeting those expectations over the lifetime of their programs. Teams that meet what you ‘expect’ are either
1) cheating their balls off (OSU, USC)
or
2) only have incredible runs for <10 years. Oh, that also includes the two schools cheating their balls off
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
And, to be consistent, let's use since 1993
without having recruiting violations.
BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
list of teams that average 1 conference title
every 4 years since 2000
OU
OSU
Florida
USC
LSU
Oregon
Miami
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
you said an MNC every 4 years, not conference title
very different
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even so
There’s not a team on that list I would want to be a fan of. If that’s what you’re looking for, best wishes.
have you ever even been to any of these stadiums
to see a game, or know any alums? I have and do, and I don’t see why it is so awful to be a fan of any of these schools. Sure, I would MUCH rather be a PSU fan, but the holier than thou attitude won’t get you very far
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be ashamed of the cheating
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 1, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes I have and do
In fact my daughter may well attend UF (her tuition is paid – we lived in state for 13 years). If you’ve been to Miami or USC you know they have no fans (and as private schools they can get away with a lot). Red Stick is fine for two days — we can debate their compliance issues ad nauseum. Read the last few months of posts for OSU’s issues. And I hate C-Bus. Oregon is next on the hammer list. I will give you a great campus though. So that leaves OU – where I have never been. But we have relatives who are graduates. And I am unimpressed with them or their history. If you want to call it holier-than-thou, so be it. Like I said, there’s not a team on that list I would want to be a fan of.
no no, I mean conference title
yes, a MNC every 4 years is wildly unrealsitic…playing for a MNC every 10 years isn’t though
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't the criteria
It was since 1993, to maintain consistency
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You said MNC appearance.
And even so it doesn’t work. OSU, USC, and Miami all with significant violations. Just off the top of my head. Oregon with problems brewing there too.
And since when did it become since 2000? You said you were counting since 1993. Why are you now making arbitrary timelines?
BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
show me where I said national title.
you guys implied national title, not me.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
my intent was always conference title
if that was ambiguous, it shouldn;t be now. CONFERENCE TITLE
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Since 1993, averaging 1 conference title every 4 years
OU
OSU
Michigan
Florida
Miami
USC
Oregon
Wisconsin
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that a strict average?
Because I would also find fault with that methodology. 4 conference titles in 4 years could give you the average you are looking for out of 15. And doesn’t necessarily give a true picture. A better methodology would be to look at every four year span from 1993-2010, then see how many of those time spans the team had at least 1 conference title.
So 1993-1996, 1994-1997, etc. Then divide that number by 15 (the total number of 4 year periods) to get a percentage. I’d be interested to see how that shapes the data
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going by an average of one every 4 years
you can go by whatever you like
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Well I’m interested so I’ll figure it out later. I gotta get up for work in the morning though so I’m out of here. Perhaps I shall make a fan post later this week where we can continue the discussion.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats 18 years
Wisconsin has 4 in that time, that is 1 per 4 and a half if I’m not mistaken. Penn State has 3 in that time, if we would have gotten 1 more in that time frame (1 game away in ’93, ’96 and ’09) would you be happy with that timeframe?
WE'RE DANCIN!!!
Ok, well, you initially responded to a post that said MNC appearance.
But that’s ok, accepting the shifted goalposts, you are still including mostly programs that are not doing it the right way. Wasn’t this all based on a contention that we could both do it the right way and be a top team by your definition?
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
it was never my intent to say anything
with regard to MNCs. It’s the nature of the format
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 2, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
V......
VIR……
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
by WorldBFat on Aug 1, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It took me a second to get that
But I’m laughing out loud. Well done sir, well done
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
who has done that with regularity?
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
They're all arbitrary cut-off points
The joy of stats and objectivity is the ability to be subjective with how they’re used.
Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?
On underperforming.
Because I agree with a lot of what you wrote. Here are the last five years (we always get into this BUT YOU INCLUDED THE DARK YEARS thing, so I picked ‘06 to ’10) for PSU in the conference (24-16). That’s a .600 winning percentage, or 4.8 conference wins per season. I’m not sure that can really be called “success”.
Date Opponent (record) Result Score Site
10/2/2010 @ *Iowa (8-5) L 3 24
10/9/2010 vs. *Illinois (7-6) L 13 33
10/23/2010 @ *Minnesota (3-9) W 33 21
10/30/2010 vs. *Michigan (7-6) W 41 31
11/6/2010 vs. *Northwestern (7-6) W 35 21
11/13/2010 @ *Ohio State (12-1) L 14 38
11/20/2010 vs. *Indiana (5-7) W 41 24 @ Landover, MD
11/27/2010 vs. *Michigan State (11-2) L 22 28
9/26/2009 vs. *Iowa (11-2) L 10 21
10/3/2009 @ *Illinois (3-9) W 35 17
10/17/2009 vs. *Minnesota (6-7) W 20 0
10/24/2009 @ *Michigan (5-7) W 35 10
10/31/2009 @ *Northwestern (8-5) W 34 13
11/7/2009 vs. *Ohio State (11-2) L 7 24
11/14/2009 vs. *Indiana (4-8) W 31 20
11/21/2009 @ *Michigan State (6-7) W 42 14
9/27/2008 vs. *Illinois (5-7) W 38 24
10/4/2008 @ *Purdue (4-8) W 20 6
10/11/2008 @ *Wisconsin (7-6) W 48 7
10/18/2008 vs. *Michigan (3-9) W 46 17
10/25/2008 @ *Ohio State (10-3) W 13 6
11/8/2008 @ *Iowa (9-4) L 23 24
11/15/2008 vs. *Indiana (3-9) W 34 7
11/22/2008 vs. *Michigan State (9-4) W 49 18
9/22/2007 @ *Michigan (9-4) L 9 14
9/29/2007 @ *Illinois (9-4) L 20 27
10/6/2007 vs. *Iowa (6-6) W 27 7
10/13/2007 vs. *Wisconsin (9-4) W 38 7
10/20/2007 @ *Indiana (7-6) W 36 31
10/27/2007 vs. *Ohio State (11-2) L 17 37
11/3/2007 vs. *Purdue (8-5) W 26 19
11/17/2007 @ *Michigan State (7-6) L 31 35
9/23/2006 @ *Ohio State (12-1) L 6 28
9/30/2006 vs. *Northwestern (4-8) W 33 7
10/7/2006 @ *Minnesota (6-7) W 28 27
10/14/2006 vs. *Michigan (11-2) L 10 17
10/21/2006 vs. *Illinois (2-10) W 26 12
10/28/2006 @ *Purdue (8-6) W 12 0
11/4/2006 @ *Wisconsin (12-1) L 3 13
11/18/2006 vs. *Michigan State (4-8) W 17 13
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's actually .650 win %, which is more palatable. Math is hard.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
A .650 average (26-14) over five years of conference play is pretty damn good
Not a legendary run by any means, but pretty successful, especially considering the inclusion of last year’s rebuilding project.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
How many B1G teams have done better than that, if that's not success?
Ohio State has: they’re .900 before vacated wins, .879 after. So that’s better.
Other than that, Wisconsin has gone .675, so that’s better too, but 6 of Wisconsin’s wins were by 3 points or less. In contrast, Penn State is only one game worse over that span (explained away by the fact that Wisconsin has only played OSU 4 times in those 5 years, but whatever), but only one of PSU’s wins has come by 3 points or less.
So, I mean, I agree that .650 doesn’t feel adequate, but PSU was very arguably the best team not cheating, right?
is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Ohio State has a Rambler-calculated winning percentage of .000 over the last ten years or so.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I said since we joined the big ten, I didn't arbitrarily choose 2000 as a starting point
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that comment had nothing to do with yours.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to get blasted on here for even brining up the dark years
it was as if it was the William Henry Harrison of PSU football periods
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well they existed
But they are a statistical anomaly. If I tried to submit a paper to APS or the the like and a huge part of my argument were clear statistical outliers, I would get laughed out of the room.
And to be clear, I’m more than willing to include the dark years and have a conversation where appropriate. The real issue is that you use that argument as a crutch to support your point, even where it clearly isn’t applicable, or is at the very least questionable. Its like Pitt fans referring to their 1,978 national championships. There is some merit at some points, but in certain contexts, its just an attempt at handwaving
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
where have I used the dark years as a crutch to support my argument
and but a small piece of argument. Further, they are as much of a statistical anomoly as the national title seasons
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
In this thread you havent
But typically, when people get upset or ‘blast’ you for it, its typically because it doesn’t fit the argument. My point was that I don’t believe people (in general) are blasting you for bringing up the dark years, but rather for the general context that you bring them up in.
There are a lot of rational people that frequent this site, but they like to debate. Many times (at least so far as I can remember) the times that people were blasting you was because they deconstructed your argument because it relied to heavily on the dark years. Which ultimately became the center of the debate, rather than whatever the original point was.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely disagree. I was blasted and booted from this site
because I didn’t side with the herd. I never cast personal insults, I brought a difference of opinion, which I supported.
Look, it all comes down to expectations. Mine are high, for PSU and most things I involve myself in. If your expectations are different than mine, that’s fine.
My arguments always began with the moment we joined the big ten. It just so happens that the dark years were included in that point of reference. At the end of the day, PSU has not lived up to my (and many other alums) expectations.
by ghostofbrd119 on Aug 1, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
People blasted you
because it always seemed like you changed your arguments. Shifting goalposts as they call it. Whether you did it intentionally or not, that is not the point. Obviously, you believe that it was because you didn’t have “blue tinted glasses” and that’s your perogative and nothing I say will change your mind.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
by jman07 on Aug 2, 2011 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, five year span for all relevant B1G's.
by Chris Grovich on Aug 1, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
What if you remove the teams that allowed their teams to be purchased by boosters?
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
You know what?
Paterno refused to cheat to win players, so screw him.
He needs to be like Nick Nolte in that basketball movie instead of, like, Henry Fonda.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If that movie came out today it would be called 5 Stars,
and it would suck even more.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus who would be Shaq?
Hasheem Thabeet or someone? Pass.
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
I think OSU's crazy (but illegitimate) run from 2005-2010 is coloring our perception
Their .900 conference winning percentage (from 06-10, as per your chart) is just insane. In fact, it’s the best conference winning percentage of any BCS-conference team by a shocking margin; super-elite Virginia Tech comes in second at .818, followed by Oklahoma at .795, Florida at .767, Oregon at .733, and West Virginia at .714.
Now we all know that OSU’s wins were illegitimate, and they will be taken out of the record books in short order. Still, being stuck in the same conference as OSU these past six years, and playing them every year, we can’t help but compare our team’s success to theirs, consciously or subconsciously. We look at our conference winning percentage, and we look at theirs, and we feel like we could be, and should be, doing better—a lot better, in fact.
When you take OSU’s numbers out of the picture, things look a whole lot different. Our .725 from 2005-2009 was the best in the conference over that time period by a wide margin (Wisconsin was second at .625). Rolling the five-year time frame forward by one year to 06-10, Wisconsin just barely overtakes us, .675 to .650—a difference of one game.
Of course, I would like to see Penn State do a little better—more 7-1’s or 8-0’s, and fewer 4-4’s. The .725 we sported from 05-09 should be a long-term goal; that would put us in the top 10 of all BCS-conference teams over pretty much any 5-year span, which is where we belong. But we can’t expect to match the .900 OSU just posted.
Man, I love Stassen.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Thank you
Thats exactly the point I have been trying to make. Unfortunately I did not take the time to put my words together quite as eloquently as you.
'Why would she have you meet her in a bar at ten in the morning?'
'I just figured she was a raging alcoholic'
by psuphysicist on Aug 1, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a failure because I'm not as successful as this guy

by The JuggerNitt on Aug 2, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It took me a couple looks to recognize Madoff
Yeah… I wonder how many ibankers drove themselves crazy trying to match Madoff’s numbers.
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by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 3, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Only one part is inaccurate.
And the second part, while inaccurate because the NCAA is not the FBI, does not detract from the fact that only delusional hacks will be willing to pretend that Ohio State wasn’t cheating for the entirety of the Tressel era.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Try Google Maps
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
by letsgopsu on Aug 2, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am loving this
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
I'm not sure you'll return to this thread to read this response, but here it is anyway.
No one outside of the Ohio State fan base will ever respect OSU’s wins during the Tressel years.
I’m sure you’ll proudly trot out the NCAA only had enough evidence to charge OSU with relatively minor violations. Congratulations, I guess. But, the NCAA’s investigation and enforcement mechanisms have proven time and time again to be utterly impotent; as a result, the public is left to decide for themselves how to regard allegations against a school. And the overwhelming amount of evidence that has been produced in the past eight months has convinced us that OSU has been a dirty program at least since Pryor was being recruited in 2007, and very likely before that as well.
So, if you and your fellow OSU fans want to continue to congratulate each other for winning all those games, and talk amongst yourselves about what a great coach Tressel was, go right ahead, but no one in the rest of the college football world will respect or acknowledge any of it.
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by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 2, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
meanwhile OJ and Casey Anthony are enjoying a guilt free round of golf somewhere
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 3, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
did you see this?
http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2011/08/03/casey-anthony-loves-them-buckeyes-allegedly/related/
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
rec'd 'hundred times if i could.
At this point, PSU is keeping joepa around cuz he essentially works for nothing…and what he does make he hands right back to them.
by rodney20 on Aug 2, 2011 12:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good lord.
Almost 400 comments. I hope I’m not the one who writes the post when this really does happen
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Rambler has not even been here yet
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
I'm tired of this debate.
It doesn’t really interest me anymore.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That plus I'm obviously cutting back on my time here this summer.
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Fighting a Civil War will do that to a person
The troll is strong with this one--Yoda
Follow me: @Ben_Jones88
Blogging at Black Shoe Diaries
Here is who I'd hire.
Jim Caldwell
Vandy
Mike Pettine Jr
Marty Mornhinweg
Al Golden
Hire Mike Pettine Jr!!!!!!!!
Jim Caldwell would be awesome
QB coach of our last NFL quarterback, and the man who helped Peyton Manning be Peyton Manning.
He also doesn't have a pulse.
No seriously, check him.
Greyshirted No More
Black Shoe Diaries
@runthedive
I'm going to reply here
because I foresee someone attempting an un-funny Paterno joke here, and I’d like to destroy the context. Call me a hero.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
not unlike
RICK NEUHEISEL who has ICE WATER in his veins
ICE WATER he was served at the Corner Room
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
by WorldBFat on Aug 1, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also yeah.
I hate when I can’t like people with Penn State connections (Millen!), but I can’t handle Caldwell.
made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail
Feel like the sig should say
Hire Jim Caldwell!!!!!!
But really, Jim Caldwell? I don’t know what it is, but I don’t get a great vibe about him. I’m still thoroughly interested in Pettine, Jr., though, if only because I’m a diehard Jet fan.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 1, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't want NFL AIDS to get on my PSU.
Vandy is 15-29 as a HC. Eh. Great position coach.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
FORCED BLOG ACTION
What a piece of “Yellow Bloggism”!
How do you generate 500 plus hits on a post?
Talk about Paterno’s retirement.
PEOPLE, JOE’S MOM LIVED TO 94, AND SHE DID NOT HAVE ALL OF THE WORKOUT FACILITIES THAT JOEPA HAS.
He is good for AT LEAST 4 or 5 more years.
Lets get real and start talking about real problems, like the D Line!
Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!
by joefromboalsburg on Aug 1, 2011 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
go see what' up at BHGP
Hamsterdam
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
I'm half Sicilian
and of my grandparents’ and great-grandparents’ generations, the average age (not counting infant mortality) is about 91. My somewhat recently deceased grandparents were 92 and 93, respectively. When I went to Sicily a few years ago, my grandfather’s freaking AUNT was still alive at 98. She’s probably still alive. It’s truly remarkable.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
I need to start drinking some olive oil
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
What about the Defensive Line?
Will they tackle Trent Richardson this year?
Can they stop Michigan State?
Will Illinois brutalize them again?
How can they win in the Shoe this year?
What about the football team?
Elizabeth, with Vin Scully, only folks working longer than JoePA at same place!
by joefromboalsburg on Aug 1, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That's for real.
I would love it if someone compared Joe’s preseason rhetoric with team records. I ain’t gonna do it, because I’m lazy, but I suspect the results would prove him clairvoyant more times than not.
I'm just here for the beer.
by Illegal Formation on Aug 1, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not just confident.
He’s fiducioso
Bydand.
by ReadingRambler on Aug 1, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I always expect Penn State to win
But there’s a difference between being optimistic about your team and expecting them to do well and be competitive and challenge for conference and BCS titles every year on one hand
…and feeling entitled to it and getting all worked up and indignant when they end up not actually bringing home the hardware every year.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate it when we lose. I abhor it. I don’t go out, I don’t talk to my girlfriend, friends or family and sometimes I’ve actually cried. It’s one of the things that affects me the most negatively on a visceral level. I mean, a person might go through a few soul-crushing break-ups in their life, but unlike tough losses, they seem to burn a little less every time.
But I have never once made the leap from being disappointed, upset, and devastated to thinking that I, a lifelong and dedicated fan even, deserve more. I have never felt like I’ve earned more, so I never feel like I’m owed more.
The only thing anyone owes me is to coach, play, and handle themselves off the field with dignity in a way that reflects well upon the university that I attended and whose seal is emblazoned on the degree that hangs in a (fine cherrywood, of course) frame in my home.
They owe it to me to earnestly desire to succeed and try their best on the field and on the sidelines to make it happen. If they let me down in that regard, I can maybe have cause to open my uppity yap. I attended the University, made up a part of the community, and feel an obligation to represent it positively in everything I do. In that sense, I’ve earned the right to get upset if things aren’t being done in the Penn State way.
But otherwise, asking for anything more reeks of smug entitlement and self-importance….two things that are not and should never be associated with Penn State football.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Aug 1, 2011 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
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Hello, everybody, coach get old, the new coach approaching, click in.
Welcome to http://www.pennlive.com
rikc neuheisel (1-24) shoes $35
UGG BOOT $50
Nike shox (R4, NZ, OZ, TL1, TL2, TL3) purchase your program like Oregon $35
Handbags ( Coach Lv fendi D&G) $35
Tattoos (polo, ed hardy, lacoste, TPeezy) $16
Urban Meyer (True Religion, ed hardy, coogi)$34 3.4 mil
FUGIMASTER Sunglasses ( Oakey, coach, Gucci, Armaini)$15
New era cap to match Pro Combat unis $16
Bikini (Ed hardy, polo) $18 recruit the SEC way!
FREE TROLLOLOLOLOL
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is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by ckmneon on Aug 1, 2011 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 18 recs
Amazing
May this live to the end of BSD’s days.
by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 1, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
REC THIS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
It's beautiful, brilliant. I wish I could give it 1,000 recs.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 1, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The attention to detail is tremendous.
I didn’t realize it wasn’t an ad until I saw CK’s name. I almost made a sarcastic ad response comment.
BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Fugimaster sunglasses

"Life is no way to treat an animal"
by Mr. Rosewater on Aug 2, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
on a side note
my 11 yr old grandson had a pair of sunglasses hit him while body surfing last week in Ocean City. He laid them on the beach by his Nana to see if anyone would claim them, at the end of the day he took them back to the condo. We looked them up online and they were $350 Oaklys. He is very happy and sporting some very fancy sunglasses. Thanks, Fugi!!
My grammer skills need improved.
Y'all been busy today
Sorry I’m late to the party. Here’s my 2 cents:
-Joe Paterno has never put this Penn State fan and alumnus in a “difficult situation.”
-Urban Meyer is by all accounts a very good recruiter and a very good football coach. He does appear to lack the moral fortitude to stand up for what he believes in and will take the easy way out whenever possible. For that I believe he is not good enough for the job.
-As for the future of the program, how many recent coaching retirements/dismissals/abandonments have left their programs on solid ground heading into the foreseeable future? For every Barry Alvarez I’ll give you a Pete Carroll, Jim Tressell, Rich Rodriguez and Charlie Weiss. Additionally, what are the odds that guys like Saban and Les Miles avoid vacating wins within the next five years?
-I believe Coach Paterno is still an asset and not a liablity, his focus is still on the “Grand Experiment” and that it is right and proper to hold the Student Athletes accountable in the class room and on the field. I believe that “Success with Honor” is more than avoiding sanctions and that NCAA’s rules do not meet the Paterno standard.
-At this point, I think Al Golden is the best possible option to eventually continue Coach Paterno’s legacy but I don’t know if it will ever happen.
I could keep going but I’ll save it for another day. I like the article Ben, I just can’t agree with a lot of the propositions.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 2, 2011 2:14 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
And in 4 or 5 years, Al may be ready to head home after rebuilding Miami!
My grammer skills need improved.
RE: Miami
Coaching at “The U” is a sh*t job at a marginal university. I live in Miami and know there’s just too much external nonsense to ever make this a legitimate (and above board) job. I really think that Al’s long term plan is timed to to go to Miami (a big time program) and do well, and be "available’ in case Penn State has an opening, In other words, PSU would likely never hire him direct from temple, but from UM, well maybe …
I see this to, though I wouldn't call it a shit job. I do realize it will be tough staying above the crap that can happen there.
My grammer skills need improved.
"There was a peaceful blog called Black Shoes …"
Ahhhh, how it makes me smile that every occurrence in life can be reduced to a "Blazing Saddles" moment, even when we take certain editorial liberties in order to make it fit. And I’m thankful I have been thinking this way for quite some time – I believe my Pops first allowed me to view this timeless classic at the age of 10 (some 30+ years ago). But seriously, healthy debate about this ever debatable subject is not a bad thing – if we can’t do it on this blog, then where else?
So here’s my two cents – While I am not ‘satisfied’ with 7-6 last year, nor were the Dark Years any fun whatsoever, I will Never tolerate a program that deems even 1% of the crap that occurs at tO$U or U$C or Auburn at all acceptable. As it’s been mentioned throughout this thread, Success With Honor means something, and the Penn State/Coach Paterno Way of Life is still the standard by which any program could be (or should be) measured. I am realistic though, just enough to know that the day Coach is no longer strolling along the sidelines (not counting when he was injured and forced to sit in the press box) will be one of the saddest I experience as not only a diehard Nittany Lion fan, but as a college football fan in general. Because I believe deep down that it will mean he is now overseeing us from above, our new guardian angel in the great Penn State blue and white skies. So I continue to appreciate and marvel at him every moment he’s still here. Is he stubborn? Sure. Does he take less of a role in some situations? Of course. But he has beyond a shadow of a doubt earned the right/respect to do things in his time, his way. Do I sometimes fear he will pull a Woody Hayes? Yeah, I suppose. But I feel quite strongly as well that the people who surround him & support him will not allow it to happen. He may be seasoned, but he is not stupid.
What it really boils down to for me is that I don’t ever want to lose the esteem. We need to continue to expect high standards. Will everyone ever truly be happy with every decision all the time? Of course not. If so, then let’s all pack it in, call it a day, and forget college football. In fact, some would have easily already done this if the passion didn’t exist, especially in light of the constant scandals at many major programs. Are We perfect in Happy Valley? No, because no one is. We have had off the field incidents with which to contend, all of which made me an agitated Alum when they occurred. But I’m certain that there are people out there whose sole job/purpose in life is to knock us out of the ranks, i.e. make sure that Stanford is the only school who can boast the "no major violations" thing. I want to make sure they are never proven correct. I will still always remain a committed fan & bleed the blue & white, if, when the time comes, we eventually secure a new head coach who will also stay committed to the Penn State/Coach Paterno Way of Life. I can only pray the list of candidates has not been rounded up by a determined Hedley Lamarr, consisting of rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con-men, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglars, horse thieves, bull-dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, sh**-kickers … well, you get the picture.
P.S. First item of note: My aforementioned Pops is DerryPharmer. Yes, because that’s how I roll. Well, it could be how He rolls, considering I am his game day chauffeur.
P.S.S. Second item of note: Mrs. DerryPharmer is a SAINT. And that is something about which there can be no debate.
by PghNittany on Aug 2, 2011 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
I was gonna rec this anyway
but then I saw your first item of note and it became a guarantee
by The JuggerNitt on Aug 2, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for it all, but absolutely for the P.S.
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
Black Shoe Diaries
by Adam Collyer on Aug 2, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Awwww, thank you ...
for the green highlighted thumbs up! I appreciate that you did it for my P.S. as well as my content. I’m just so glad I made some sense-especially with the Blazing Saddles references. Now, as for the autograph request, I can get you a DerryPharmer real cheap-in lieu of pay, I will gladly accept a carton of paddleballs … provided the friggin’ things aren’t warped.
FNG post
New to BSD, but not to Penn State football. You guys have covered this topic pretty thoroughly, but I can’t resist adding my $0.02.
One point: If you believe the PI call on Sciorroto was bogus, we might have held on to beat Iowa 23-21 in 2008, giving us a .675 conference record over the last few years.
Second: Surprisingly, no one has mentioned the post-Bear Bryant situation at Bama. A quick recap: They had Perkins and Curry as back-to-back coaches from 1983 – 89, with a combined record of 58-25-1. Then Stallings came in from ‘90-’96, and had a 70-16-1 record (counting the forfeited 8 games in 1993). Point is, they had three coaches in about 15 years who had pretty good success — none of them stayed long. I think this is what the author meant when he said Penn State fans may have to change their expectations. Most coaches are mercenaries — hiring out for the biggest bucks and using schools as stepping stones to “bigger” universities or to the pros. Of all the names thrown out as potential JoePa successors, Al Golden is the only one who I believe might be content to come back to Penn State for a period measuring decades. And I also believe he will not get considered by State until he has demonstrated three-five years success at Miami (with NO violations, of course).
Finally, I agree with those of you who believe Joe has earned the right to leave on his terms and is no way harming the program. Are we “losing” recruits because Joe is 84? Probably. Is that acceptable to me, given the alternative is possibly nudging out the man who created Penn State football? Let’s face it — Penn State would be VA Tech 2.0 if not for Joe: Continuing to play pick-up games with whomever we could convince to come to Happy Valley in November.
Thanks for the opportunity to run my mouth!
84
by PSU_Lions_84 on Aug 2, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's what we're here for!
Thanks for the opportunity to run my mouth!
All I want to do is make the whole crowd bounce, y'all
I was that guy, Adam Collyer. Now, I'm that guy, Adam Collyer
@AdamCollyer
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by Adam Collyer on Aug 2, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
+ 1 for Truth:
Penn State would be VA Tech 2.0 if not for Joe: Continuing to play pick-up games with whomever we could convince to come to Happy Valley in November.
PSU will be back immediately. Great support, poor competition.
'11: Minimum Goal: Win 10 games again
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 3rd in offense, 107th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
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A prediction ...
Whatever happens and whenever Joe departs the program, I really think the priority is going to be first on hiring someone who will help continue the Grand Experiment that we are all so proud of and less about a coach will bring the national championship quickest. So thoughts about Urban, et al, are frivolous, as these folks are not even in the same league from a human credibility standpoint. Sure, hiring a coach that loses a lot is not going to happen either, but it’s why I have a funny feeling about the whole Al Golden thing – he’s young, looks good (so far), embody’s the program’s values and could carry the GE on for another 40 years …
Jay? Is that you?
"Fish aren't smart. It's not like they have advanced degrees."
Mike Leach - Arrrrrrrrrr
I'd like to believe this is true
but there are too many big egos in the picture (Spanier above all) who are eager to put their stamp on the program by making some big-name hire.
I think the only way we get a young, up-and-coming coach who’s willing to take up Joe’s cause and continue the Grand Experiment is if Joe really asserts himself in the hiring process. Maybe it will happen, but I don’t think so.
Of course, if Golden builds a solid program at Miami in the next 2-3 years, that might make him a big enough name to satisfy the Administration’s desire for a big-splash hire. We can hope…
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by newenglandnittanylion on Aug 3, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that your first sentence necessarily conflicts with your second sentence.
As you third sentence reveals, there’s plenty of up-and-comers who, with the right amount of success, could prove themselves ready on the field and off to be the next Penn State head coach. I’m guessing that Spurley’s number one criterion is how much success we can have without paying top dollar for an already BCS coaching guy.
(But that’s merely my opinion, it’s not as if I ever served Tim Curley and Charlie Strong in the Corner Room discussing What Happens if Joe Paterno Retires 5-10 Years from Now.)
My question for up-and-coming, potential Penn State coaches is this,
Is Penn State the pinnacle for you, or just a stepping stone? I don’t expect a 45-year-old, for instance, to pledge undying loyalty to Penn State, but I would be curious to know how they view PSU. If we are just a way station to X or Y University or bigger paycheck, then I don’t think I want that coach. If we can find someone who knows and honors the GE/Success with Honor concepts AND who wants to improve the product, that is the guy who gets my vote.
As for the big egos in the administration, I have seen situations where they hire someone weaker, just to be able to exert control. It’s a safe bet Joe is not an easy guy to work with at times (if he is willing to run down a referee, Spanier/Curley have no chance); the head office guys may look for someone more malleable. I don’t see that as a plus for the football program, but I have seen that scenario play out in the business world.
Let me throw another name into the mix: Mike Munchak. “Only” 51, he obviously has Penn State ties and coaching creds. Depending on how he does with the Titans, he might be attracted by and attractive to Penn State in another three-five years. Don’t get me wrong — I like Golden’s chances if he runs a clean program at Miami, but M2 may be a candidate for lots of good reasons.

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