Who's Up for Some Rasslin Talk?
Lots to talk about. First, apologies for not posting some wrestling stuff earlier. It's a remarkable phenomenon when one is finally able to soften one's personal obsession; all sorts of new avenues suddenly appear ;) And I'm super-slammed, so this will be fast and link dumpy. Ok? Go!
First, Fargo. The wrestling tournament. It's a huge national prep tournament for Freestyle and Greco-Roman and Penn State incoming freshman and number one recruit last year, Morgan McIntosh wrapped up a stellar HS career with another freestyle championship. At 215 pounds! This is notable because he won at Fargo last year and won 2 of his 3 California state championships at 189 pounds, but, and this should be fun to discuss in the comments, wanted to wrestle up:
"I want to get used to wrestling, bigger, stronger guys," said McIntosh, who was named the 2011 InterMat High School Wrestler of the Year. "It's a big difference going from 189s to 215s. A lot of these guys were 10, 15 pounds bigger than me, so I think it's a good experience being able to wrestle all these strong guys."
It's no secret Penn State struggled at 197 pounds last year and, if McIntosh redshirts and Quentin Wright and Ed Ruth remain at last year's weights of 184 & 174, would do so again this year. With Iowa and Oklahoma State reloading this year, many pundits believe it will be important for McIntosh to hold off his redshirt and jump right in, ala Andrew Alton last year. What do you think?
Chance Marsteller
Another dude who threw down hard out at Fargo is 16yo incoming tenth-grader, Chance Marsteller. He won his division and weight in both Freestyle and Greco--without giving up a point. You may recall us going uber-creepy last year about this kid, but he didn't disappoint: he ran the PA table, went undefeated and won a state championship his freshman year. BSD reader and wrestling blogger Kx/Kr had a long interview with Marsteller on his PSU TOM blog here. It sounds like Marsteller is interested in going the route of Olympic Gold-Medalist Henry Cejudo and just skipping college altogether, instead focusing solely on the Olympics and international competition. Lots of good stuff in there, but my favorite was when Kurt asked him if any of the wrestlers at the Olympic Training Center took it easy on him when they knew he was still in high school:
I am pretty sure that they weren’t. I would go out after them & sort of shock them to make sure that they would come back after me. I knew that they would so I am pretty sure that they weren’t taking me too lightly out there.
The Alliance
Legendary wrestling icon Dan Gable was instrumental in coordinating an 'Alliance' between three very important governing bodies in the sport of wrestling: USA Wrestling, the National Wrestling Coaches Association and the National Hall of Fame. Win Magazine caught up with Gable for an interview and, if you are remotely interested in following wrestling in any way going forward, it's kinda a requirement to read or listen whenever this cat talks. The interview was very interesting in its discussion of the future of the sport and the people who run it and even included this gem from Gable about Cael Sanderson's role in the sport (emphasis mine):
You have to realize that everyone is unique. If Cael tries to be someone he is not (by allowing additional media coverage), it could affect him in ways and areas that he is successful in. This is his personality and he does it in another way. Eventually, if he keeps having the success he is having as an athlete and coach, he will have that impact and pick up better communication skills to help him later on. Not everyone is an ideal person for everything. Could he do more for overall wrestling? Yes, but would that affect his Penn State team or his wrestling as an individual? He’s got to feel comfortable with it. Over time, I believe he will develop some of these other traits. Right now, he has his own excitement and that’s enough for him and I believe that will help the sport. We have got to respect the big contributors to our sport. Just the fact that Cael came out of retirement with success has done more for wrestling than anything else.
David Taylor Interview
Lastly, amid the news of the folkstyle offseason, one member of the wrestling community was very, very quiet. You may recall Penn State wunderkind David Taylor's season ended in disappointment when he got pinned by former Penn Stater Bubba Jenkins in the national championship match. Although Taylor has historically been very very active in the Freestyle scene, he didn't appear in any of this spring and summer tournaments and effectively removed all consideration of Olympic redshirt possibilities. This of course is good news (same goes for Quentin Wright) for Penn State's chances of defending their Big Ten and National Championships next season, but only if Taylor is alright in the head.
Now, there are a lot of wrestling fans who scoff at notions or talk of going undefeated, and understandably so. It's a brutal physical and mental sport and the competition is often very, very tough. Many things can go wrong and obstacles abound. But I love it. The talk and the possibilities of running the tables, that is. The mano-a-mano nature of wrestling makes that possibility--and the preposterous odds against it--really fun for me as a fan. Just as Marsteller above still has a clean record and a chance at Cary Kolat's undefeated PA prep record, David Taylor was staring down the barrel of equaling Sanderson's collegiate accomplishment as he walked out to face Jenkins in the final (granted, he still had three more full years ahead of him, but still: he hadn't yet lost). Then he got pinned. The whole prospect got blown up in spectacular fashion, and on the biggest stage. I have no idea, but am eminently curious about, what that does to an elite wrestler. And although I figured Taylor was in good hands to overcome that disappointment (in the Penn State mat room under Sanderson's tutelage), I was very curious about his relative silence and disappearance. Thankfully, the guys at Flo got hold of him for an interview and we learn he's probably gonna be ok ;) In it, he admits that he needed to skip this year's Freestyle season to get over the loss.
Last comment on DT: obviously, I really want to like him. If I were a fan of another team, there would probably be a bunch of things I could find to deride him about, but I'm a Penn State fan, so I go into following him with a hopeful attitude. And, not surprisingly given that, I do like him. Dude's a great student in the classroom, looks and sounds about as well-rounded as an elite wrestler can possibly be and I think he's in the right place for his goals. I like the way he talks about having fun, and if you've followed the little bit that Sanderson actually discloses about his Penn State coaching, you know it comes from him. And you can see how important that is. Especially after what happened on the mats in March. And you know what? I set the table well enough, I'll go ahead and say it: I wouldn't bet against this kid losing again at all the next three years.
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Well shoot
Linky for the DT interview if the embed’s not working in your browsers: http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/238901-Compound-Summer-Camps/video/498712-David-Taylor-The-Season
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Pure slop
Here’s the link to the whole Gable interview.
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Can't wait for wrestling season...
but can’t wait for football season even more!
"He lowballed us and said: 'Take it or leave it. If you don't take our offer, you are rolling the dice.' I said: 'Consider them rolled.' " - Jim "Huge Brass Balls" Delaney
B/c it comes first?
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Also, call to Bman:
Request from Rambler on the twitter: some personal tales of your experience watching Mike Evans rassle in the 717. Did you once say your son went up against him? Please embellish.
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Yes, Sam wrestled him twice in his career
In 7th grade he dodged him, wrestling 126. 8th grade was a killer season, he was doing great, won the Carlisle tournament to start the year then was in a car accident and missed two weeks with a concussion. His first match back was Evans, wrestling 145. Sam had to eat a hoagie and drink a 40 of gatorade on the way to matches to make weight, he was too light at 139, but had trouble losing the 2 lbs to be sure at 138, 3.5% body fat, I used to be that way. He fought well the first period, down 4-1, then got turned starting on the bottom for 3 but got a reversal when Evans got high and was down 7-3. They had a great scramble and just when I thought he was going to come out on top, Evans caught a wrist and rolled through. He fought for a tad over 60 seconds but got pinned at the buzzer. Evans told some guys that wrestled in the same club Sam was the strongest kid he faced all yr. He went undefeated and won the PA youth championships that spring. Sam also face some kid named English in a post season tournament and got majored. He finished 8th grade with an 8-4 record, sprained an ankle against West Perry. His sophmore year he wrestled Evans again and got majored but Evans completely dominated him, it was 18-3, he tried to pin him twice but couldn’t. He got decked by one of the Pepplemans that yr too.
My grammer skills need improved.
Evans is a traitor and a coward.
"Infantrymen of the polis think it a disgraceful thing to run away, and they choose death over safety in flight. On the other hand, hired soldiers, who rely from the outset on superior strength, flee as soon as they find they are outnumbered, fearing death more than dishonor."
by ReadingRambler on Aug 10, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
and got suspended from cumberland valley for pooping in someone's lacross glove
My grammer skills need improved.
I thought he went to East Pennsboro?
Please tell me he got kicked out of CV for pooping in someone’s lacrosse glove.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 10, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw Evans wrestle quite a bit in high school as my dad was a CV grad. He’s certainly talented, but I have some doubts about his transition to wrestling in college.
In high school he very often got away with resorting to brute strength and muscling through guys, that won’t happen in college. He’s technically sound, but I could see quicker wrestlers giving him trouble if they can attack him from angles from neutral.
If you want to stack him up against Ruth at this point in their careers I would say the advantage would go to Ruth.
Speed: Ruth
Strength: Evans
Technique I would say a slight edge to Ruth.
Granted you have to remember were comparing a guy who finished 3rd in the country against a freshman who has yet to wrestle a match that counts yet.
By the by
Rambler and I have been totally trolled on twitter by someone in Evans’ camp, a mom or sis, who, I’m guessing, mistook my mentioning our own Bman for Ruth. Rambler tweeted he found out Evans was from Enola, made a crack about the 717 card revoke and I told him I remembered that Bman (above) had some personal tales, and this lady chimed in and about Mike having beaten him (sic) before. I was all like ’who’d he beat?’ And she came back in with a dig on, I’m guessing, Ruth having only finished 3rd at nationals. Pretty funny.
Did you or your dad ever interact with his family? Know a BMelissaAnne? What did your ole man think of the poop in the lacrosse glove thing?
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
I really, really kinda sorta want to get into a Twitter fight with one of Mike Evans' relatives.
GOD I LOVE WRESTLING
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
SHE'S CLEARLY READY!
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
My favorite part, tho, is that Bman is now Ed Ruth
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
my grandson does say that I am brown like him, so maybe I can be confused with an extemely athletic 20 yr old
Hey Ladies, Look Out!!
My grammer skills need improved.
by BMAN13 on Aug 11, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't your
wife have enough to worry about? (Based on your stories, of course)
'Trivializing the "GREATEST RIVALRY OF ALL TIME" for a bunch of ghetto tats must have made them pee in their man-diapers.' Mr. Rosewater
Hey, different question
Where do you most want Derek St. John to wrestle this year?
165 where we can root for Taylor to again widen the gap and begin majoring him again or;
157 where we can root for whoever comes out of our own scrum to set back their pasty young star?
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
157, without question.
I want Dylan to own him, so I can rub Ross’s face in it.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
That would be an interesting match up style wise. Not sure if Dylan can beat him, if he’s even the starter. I still think I’m leading towards English.
But I’m not entirely sold on St. John kid has a lot of talent, but man some of his matches at ncaas last year, I didn’t like the body language. He would get down in the match and he looked completely defeated. Maybe it was just a long season starting to wear on him, or maybe he always looks like that. But it was certainly atypical of an Iowa wrestler.
Oh, yeah.
Terry Brands was quite obviously desperate to keep him in the match in the 3rd against Taylor.
He’s a really good athlete, but he did have a tendency to get negative if he faced adversity. And negativity never works in the Iowa system.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Your Hawkeye buddies are delusional
The only reason DSJ was able to “close the gap” on DT was that he knew he couldn’t beat him and wrestled defensively to avoid embarassment.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 11, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I wonder if you're the delusional one.
At the very least, and more importantly, I do wonder if you actually watched the last two matches between Taylor and DSJ. Because I have no idea how you could watch those matches and come away thinking what you seem to be thinking.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I misreading this, doesn't this run counter to what you just wrote about negativity?
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 11, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I would describe wrestling halfheartedly as being different from wrestling defensively.
He didn’t look halfhearted in the Big Ten final until the 3rd, and he still wasn’t totally giving up. Throughout the match, and especially in the first two periods, he showed more than enough offense to make suggestions of defensive-minded wrestling seem silly to me.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Lots of questions no to most of them. I think my dad’s reaction was the same as everyone else’s it was really stupid.
Also I love that everyone jumps all over evans beating ruth. Even though it was years ago as if Ruth hasn’t improved at all since then. (Not to say Evans hasn’t either)
Evans has to make the Iowa lineup first. That’s not even a sure thing. They have some talented guys in that room, both Lofthouse and Gambrall made big strides last season.
Thanks jtot
-Bonus for the team to see DT put off his Olympic dream until ’16.
-Good advice from Gable, you can’t be all things to everybody. We’ll keep counting those NCs until Cael passes Gable’s record.
-It’s getting about time to start breaking down the season prospects by weight class. Any other serious NC contenders besides OkSt and Iowa? What’s Cornell have back this year?
-If DT, Ruth and Q all move up, put Cowburn at 165, who’s at 157? If they don’t move up and MM goes at 197 can Cowburn make 157?
-Gotta love the fact that we still won the NC in spite of disappointing finishes by DT, Ruth, Molinaro and Wade. Throw in Long and Q and that’s a potential for a lot of points in the Big Ten and NCAA tourneys.
Striving for Success with Honor
Re: 'It's getting about time...'
Agreed! Taylor’s going at 165. Can we use this vid to count that as firm now? Wiscy’s Andrew Howe is taking the Olympic Redshirt (along with Travis Rutt @184 & Tyler Graff @133)(plus, they had a killer recruiting class, who will likely redshirt, so they could be real fierce in 12-13). Cornell’s Kyle Dake is NOT taking the OlyRS, but is moving to 157. Who’s left for DT? Last year’s runner up, Tyler Caldwell, transferred from Oklahoma to Nebraska and has been training with outgoing champ Jordan Burroughs, but no word yet on whether he will wrestle this year or take the OlyRS. Then there’s Iowa’s Derek St. John, who will either face Dake at 157 or DT at 165. He was real tall last year, but no idea how tough weight suck was for him then.
But, the Ruth & Q weights still have a lot of discussion, right? 184 has all eight AA’s coming back next year, or something fierce like that. You said Cowburn, so yeah, let’s talk 4 grapplers at three weights 174/184/197; which is the better lineup (apologies to FOS’ers who already talked this):
1. Cowburn/Ruth/Q; McIntosh redshirts
2. Ruth/Q/McIntosh; Cowburn sits
We got zero points at nationals at both 165 & 197 last year, so if either Cowburn or McIntosh can at least qualify, that’s already an improvement of some sort, right? However, Ruth & Q placed 3rd & 1st, so those are points that aren’t automatic to repeat. Could Ruth get at least 3rd in the 184 juggernaut? Can Q win it all again at 197? Who would go further and score more points this year: Cowburn at 174 or MM at 197? I’m voting (cuz it counts, yo) Cowburn sits, we keep last years studs at last years lower weights and we save MM’s RS til next year when this bump happens for real and send him out to see what he can score this year. What do you think, Frank?
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Good point about deferring MMs redshirt a year.
My mistake on DT, I realize I already have him moving up from 157 to 165.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 10, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Two Other Weight Class Battles
157
This sounds like a close one. I’ve read where all three of Dylan Alton, James English & James Vollrath are very good wrestlers who could score points at nationals. And they’re neck in neck in the room. Guessing this won’t be settled til just before first meet, like 141 was last year with Andrew/Dylan/Lynch.
141
All signs point to Andrew redshirting this year, coming back the year after Tank graduates at 149, and graduating the same year as his brother. That leaves an interesting battle between Sam Sherlock, back from a RS & knee injury recovery (2yrs ago, the injury was) and Brian Pearsall. The class lost Kennedy & Thorn, but Russell & Marion both return, so it’s gonna be tough for whoever earns the start.
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
I forgot about Vollrath
He beat a few decent wrestlers last year and should do better back down at 157. As for Dylan, that’s a big move up for him. Can he handle it?
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 10, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a big move up
He did 152 the last two years of HS I believe. And his inability to make 141 removed him from the running during wrestle-offs last year between him, Andrew & Lynch. I’ve read lots of reports lately too that Andrew had a tougher & tougher time making 141 toward the end of last year. Also read Dylan’s walking around at 175, which is about right for the offseason of a 157 pounder.
English beat two top-ten ranked wrestlers at 149 early last year when Tank was out. They (the two he beat didn’t finish so well, but still, nice wins)
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Cael
Here’s an article about Cael I found interesting; don’t know how much longer it will be up:
<a href="http://l.wbx.me/l/?p=1&instId=199512c2-c85a-4704-984a-53aa7b9fa528&token=853bbde130d47dae3a67ca9649184ece4d7304f6000001319a713b99&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deseretnews.com%2Farticle%2F700166688%2FCael-Sanderson-excited-to-be-back-on-the-wrestling-mat.html" >
I did not know this
Sanderson took a moment to clear up some misconceptions concerning his move from Iowa State to Penn State.
“People say crazy things,” Sanderson said. “Some people think Penn State called me with some ridiculous financial offer to take over as head coach. It’s not what happened at all.”
“Truth is, I called them.”
“Penn State was one of those jobs I had in the back of my mind that if it ever came open I would look into it. That’s what happened.”
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 10, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Great write up, by the way. Cael winning in Romania was cool and he will be going in Poland in September.
My grammer skills need improved.
I think about, talk about Marsteller so much that I'm probably going to start dreaming about him soon.
I scare myself, but this is the nature of wrestling fandom.
"Infantrymen of the polis think it a disgraceful thing to run away, and they choose death over safety in flight. On the other hand, hired soldiers, who rely from the outset on superior strength, flee as soon as they find they are outnumbered, fearing death more than dishonor."
Oh, and just let me say that all of the reasons Iowa fans come up with to hate Taylor are amusing at best.
“He false starts and gets away with!” And how many guys don’t?
“He has this body language thing after matches that really annoys me! He’s a douche!” Oh.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
I can’t tell you how much I love hearing Taylor talk about PSU’s desire to dominate their opponents. This is the mentality behind the Iowa teams that won more than twenty national championships and it’s the mentality that will make these guys the best for as long as they can wrestle.
WWOO INTENSE INTENSE INTENSE
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
I think the talk of Chance going to the OTC is overblown
He’s going into 10th grade to think he knows what he wants to do after school yet is absurd.
Additionally most of the speculation seems to be based off some innocent comment about how his ultimate dream is to win a gold medal. He didn’t say he didn’t have dreams of winning a few NCAA titles along the way. I think if you asked David Taylor his ultimate goal in wrestling it would be to win a gold medal also.
I also think the timing of the olympics could play a role in his decision. The next olympics won’t be until the summer after his sophomore year of college. I think he’ll likely go to college and go the Olympic redshirt route.
I also think people should stop going crazy over this kid at this point. He’s young, he’s talented but he’s got a long way to go before college. I also think he’ll need to grow some height wise before college. He’s extremely short and stocky for the weight he is at.
He's like Ron Powlus, dude.
He’s going to win four national championships and fifteen Dan Hodge Trophies.
"Faith requires no sources or proof, only a large amount of words." - unionblue, Civil War Talk
by ReadingRambler on Aug 11, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If it's not on the internet it didn't happen
Dude, we needed places like BSD back when Powlus was winning all those things.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Aug 11, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha! Figured I could bait you with some of this kind of talk
He’s also 16 right now. Which means he’ll be 19 in the summer after graduating high school, in 2014, so it won’t be like he’ll be too young: 21 by Oly time. But more importantly, how would he work college eligibility? Regularly redshirt Y1, then OlyRS Y2? Or, compete in Y1, OlyRS in Y2?
The question, of course, is: where is he likely to get better prepared during the two years leading into the 2016 Olympics? At the OTC, or on-campus somewhere? Taylor sure sounded in his interview like a dude who had very considerably contemplated that very question, and we know what his answer was/is: it’s at Penn State, wrestling for Sanderson. Of course, he may be far more academic-minded than Marsteller, which could play in as well. But throw in all the Yessirs & Nosirs I saw in Kurt’s interview with the kid, and I’m quite happy going crazy over him at this point.
Continuing to respect your opinion of course, fine sir. Debated wrestling talk is always superior to no wrestling talk. Hope you’re having a good summer!
jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
Also by the by
I’m headed today to Deep Creek lake, the scene where I got to witness the wonderful Penn State Return to Glory this past March, where I got to see this guy earn this:

jtothetweet
"Hate doesn't give a damn about tactics or stategy. Hate cares only about hate." --rosswbhgp
by jtothep on Aug 11, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You would think they
could have at least sprung for the large cake.
'Trivializing the "GREATEST RIVALRY OF ALL TIME" for a bunch of ghetto tats must have made them pee in their man-diapers.' Mr. Rosewater
by rahpsu92 on Aug 11, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs




























