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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Big Ten Odds: Championship Odds, Picking The Biggest Loser, and OH NOSE ALABAMA

I've always had a strong affinity for futures odds, especially as they related to college football.  The Big Ten odds always come out mid-summer, usually during or just after the slew of preview magazines gets properly digested, but I've always thought the bookies bring a stronger game.  Sure, Steele & Co. put their money where their mouth is in terms of predictions -- no one likes an expert who proves every year they aren't very good at their job, but at the same time that risk is only indirect.  It's typically analysis and information first, and Steele is the first name you think of precisely because of the homework he puts in.  If he puts in the sweat and is at least somewhat right along the way, well that seems to make the magazine worthwhile.

Oddsmakers have no such luxury.  A bad line means a bad business, and so it's be right or get hammered.  Sure, they're dealing with most of the same info as the "experts", and sure popular teams are probably taking a little extra juice on average, but there's a pretty real risk/reward model here the magazines don't share.

It's for these reasons I find this worthwhile, or at least the best we can do in August.

An interesting note before we get started, as posted above the division championship odds:

Star-divide

 

Team selected needs to win the division and advance to the conference championship game.

This isn't specifically targeted at Ohio State -- it appears above every division odds sheet -- but there's only one real way this can actually happen: a team is barred by the NCAA form playing a bowl game and, therefore, from appearing in the Big Ten conference championship game.

Does this affect Ohio State's odds?  Probably not.  And it would seem to void the whole division anyway: if Penn State finishes second in the group but goes to the championship game by default, they didn't fulfill the first half of the above.  So in that regard we have no added elements below.

On with the Big Ten division championship odds (all numbers from BoDog).  Leaders (That's Us) Division:

Wisconsin 7/5  
Ohio State 2/1  
Penn State 43/20  
Illinois 10/1  
Purdue 33/1  
Indiana 40/1  

Ohio State gets both Wisconsin and Penn State at home this year, which of course is nice.  Penn State must play both Wisconsin and Ohio State on the road; not as helpful.  It also probably means Vegas would call Paterno's team the second best in the division seeing as how they're just a hare behind Ohio State even with that compounded disadvantage. 

This is also a story of two divisions -- Illinois, Purdue and Indiana are well behind the pace.

And the the Legends (That's Them) Division:

Nebraska 1/2  
Michigan State 4/1  
Michigan 11/2  
Iowa 7/1  
Northwestern 9/1  
Minnesota 50/1  

Much has been made of Nebraska's first draw, but it's misleading.  Sure they have to travel to Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan, but only one of those teams is in their division.  Yes, they all count but a loss out of the group is much less damning, in part because doing that but winning in-division means you hold the tiebreakers.  Michigan State and Iowa are both at home.

And your Big Ten odds to win the whole thing (Legends in italic):

Nebraska 8/5  
Wisconsin 13/5  
Ohio State 5/1  
Penn State 11/2  
Michigan State 10/1  
Michigan 15/1  
Iowa 17/1  
Northwestern 22/1  

Illinois 25/1  
Purdue 85/1  
Indiana 125/1  
Minnesota 125/1  

Some pretty fun things start to happen when you look at parity:

  • If you add the "place" (Nebraska = 1, Wisconsin = 2, ect....I know, very scientific) you get Leaders 39.5, Legends 38.5.
  • The Leaders clearly have more "top tier" teams (3), but everyone but Minnesota could reasonably expect to win the Legends group.
  • The median odds of each group -- you have to average the #3 and #4 spot of each -- reads Leaders +152, Legends +160.

National championship time:

(9) Wisconsin    20/1  
(10) Nebraska   25/1  
(11) Ohio State   25/1  
(18) Penn State    30/1  
(23) Michigan State 50/1  
(26) Iowa    65/1  
(28) Michigan    75/1  

Why Wisconsin jumps Nebraska here I cannot say.  Both have relatively straightforward OOCs: Wisconsin takes on Oregon State, Nebraska has Washington; both Pac-12 schools fall right in the middle of the conference odds (6th and 7th, respectively).  This is either a macro thing with a lot of eyes on Wisconsin or, and we're reaching at this point, Wisconsin might be projected to have some advantages against the top-odded national teams that Nebraska does not.  What those advantages might be I can't really speculate on right now. 

Parity seems to strike again here as well.  The theme is probably that the Leaders will probably be the harder division to win -- you're talking about three teams in the top 20 compared to just one for the Legends -- however the Legends give you more consistent tests.

The other thing to note is the lack of title contenders.  For all the talk about Wisconsin and Nebraska, they both fall behind: three SEC teams, two Pac-12 teams, and one member each from the Big "12", ACC and field of non-BCS players.  The Big Ten is deep this year, but once again seems to lack a real media darling to ride. What is especially troubling for the ESPN hype-machine is that there's not even a clear #1 to focus on now that we're flipping Big Ten and MNC odds around.

And one more note:

(1) Oklahoma    9/2  
(2) Alabama    11/2  

Who knows what happens in the AP, but Alabama might not repeat as the #1 ranked team going into the Penn State game like they did last year. It'll be close, though.

And a walk through the Heisman Odds:

(T4) Denard Robinson (QB Michigan) 15/2

No surprise there.  Your OOC special:

(6) Trent Richardson (RB Alabama) 10/1

Still, easily replaceable, probably the 10th best player on the team. And this, probably a throw-away bet:

(T15) Kirk Cousins (QB Michigan State) 35/1

Here is something interesting, and more proof that Wisconsin isn't recruiting as much as cloning their skill players every couple of years:

(T31) James White (RB Wisconsin) 80/1
(T31) Montee Ball (RB Wisconsin) 80/1

And the rest:

(37) Marcus Coker (RB Iowa) 90/1
(38) Dan Persa (QB Northwestern) 95/1

This feels per usual for the Big Ten, minus the ridiculous Pryor line.  Denard fits the bill, although you first have to bet that Hoke will even put him in a situation to win it, and then of course that he will perform. This has been the best player on the best team award for a while now, and Michigan is not projected to be the best team.  That's probably all you need to know about someone from the Big Ten winning the Heisman.


Your other conference championship odds go like so:

SEC Odds To Win - Alabama (9/5)
ACC Odds To Win - Florida State (3/2) 
Big 12 Odds To Win - Oklahoma (4/9) -- Texas is third.
Big East Odds To Win - West Virginia (9/5) -- Pitt is third.
Pac-12 Odds To Win - Oregon (2/1)
MAC - Toledo (13/4) -- Temple is third, Eastern Michigan dead last at 40/1.

If you've heard any tips about a horse, fill us in.

Comment 75 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Agree.

But, I’m almost tempted with jNW at 22/1. I might just be absolutely insane, but I’ve got a funny feeling about them this year, and 22/1 would be a healthy payout…

by psuwxman on Aug 2, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's worth a shot

It’s not a bad bet. I kind of have their value at 15/1, so in my head you are getting good value. What’s $50 anyway in the grand scheme of things, right? That’s the same bet that stuck out in my head in terms of long-shots.

by STU Boy on Aug 2, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't do that.

One does not pick Northwestern until they prove themselves able to do anything like that. And that’s something they haven’t done in quite some time.

Bydand.

by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Truthfully

I could see anybody not named Minnesota being “a little bit better than we all think” and just completely running away with the division, but I expect 3 or 4 teams from that division to enter Thanksgiving weekend 4-3ish with a mathematical shot at winning it. Then it’s just one game for the title.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Michigan's schedule is extremely favorable; Iowa lost everybody of note from last year

They don’t play Wisconsin or Penn State and have Ohio State and Nebraska at home. This, in tandem with a pretty brutal schedule for Nebraska, is why I’ve been saying that I think the winner of the Michigan — Michigan State game has to LOVE their chances to go to the B1G CG.

Even if Michigan loses to Nebraska, Ohio State, and Iowa, 5-3 with a head to head win over MSU really, actually might get them there. Win just one of those and beat MSU, and you’re looking at the clear favorite.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but you're as insane as I am and you think Sparty is good.

So I don’t trust you.

Also, here’s the deal: Iowa doesn’t have to prove they have a decent defense. Norm is healthy again, their guys of, uh, not note are better than Michigan’s guys of “The only note they get is a note of despair from Brian Cook”. And Iowa under Ferentz has a good defense.

Bydand.

by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Coker is probably going to bowl over whoever he feels like

Not to mention a top 5 OT in the nation.

"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 2, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just can't bring myself to believe MSU will be that good.

I can’t remember them having 2 decent seasons in a row in a long time. And I’ve seen Kirk Cousins play before. He was using the alias Drew Stanton. Edwin Baker once played under the name Javon Ringer. Their coach once appeared under the stage name Wannabe-Bill Belichick. I’ll believe it when I see it.

I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6

by LB31Monster on Aug 2, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I can't bring myself to believe MSU will be that good because they won't be

That is, unless the replace their 2 best best players on defense and rebuild an OL & Secondary like a pro. But it’s Sparty, and in this case, I’m definitely going all in on betting against Sparty.

"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 2, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

It could go either way

on one hand, they’re an 11-2, defending B1G Champ with most of the important pieces back.

On the other, they were marginally, if any, better than Penn State last year, and lost more than PSU did. Also, still Michigan State.

Nothing from 5-7 to 12-0 would make me look twice.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stop.

You can’t claim to be B1G champ when your losses are like 63-14. Can’t do it. It doesn’t count as a Rambler Big Ten Championship, that’s for sure.

Bydand.

by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

But they have a mascot

that looks a little like the autopilot in airplane (apologies to Purdue, who can also put up that claim).

I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6

by LB31Monster on Aug 2, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I operate under the belief that MSU was lucky rather than good last year

Several close wins that could’ve gone either way.

Formerly known as kmart93
Follow me on twitter! @kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries

by Kyle_Martin on Aug 2, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But, just to understand odds, if I put 50 $ on Penn State, then I'd win 50 x 43/20 if they won the NC?

"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 2, 2011 9:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Nope.

You would win 50 × 30 if you were making a NC bet.

If you bet 50 on them to win the leaders division you would win 50 × 43/20.

BSD Wentworth
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

And the 43/20 is interesting, probably the strangest one to me. Your’re going from +200 to +215, seems like a little too exact a science for something that is based on some inexact perceptions.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it is based on probably some pretty great psychology.

They know what PSU fans/alum will bet on the team no matter what, and what lines they need to suck in the bordeline ones.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

NC would be 30/1, or $1,500, or your ticket.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, thanks folks

Can’t say I’m an odds better type of person

"We're going to do all we can to get this team right, to go after that national championship" - Devon Still

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Aug 2, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Betting $100 on everybody not named Nebraska or Minnesota to win the Legends:

MSU wins: make $100
Michigan wins: make $250
Iowa wins: make $300
Northwestern wins: make $600

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Nebraska wins: Lose $400.

Not worth it, in my estimation.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look at Nebraska's schedule

Then realize you’re talking about a 10-4 team from the Big 12 North that lost to a miserable Texas team and needed OT to beat Iowa State last year

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

What team on that list can you not pick apart that way?

BSD Wentworth
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by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, you're not wrong

but they don’t have Nebraska’s schedule

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that the margin is much closer than it's being made out to be.

And it is certainly closer than those odds. But I don’t think the highest payout is worth the investment. Your math appears to be off $100 more favorable than it should be. That means if you weight them equally, you have a $400 investment with an average outcome of plus $70, a low of $400 loss, and a high of $500 win. And if you remove NW from the equation, you’re looking at MSU win breaks even, M wins $150, Iowa $200. Risk/reqard you’d be better off picking one of those 3.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

*reward

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

No

Put 100 dollars on MSU, get your $100 that you bet and $400 back from the bet if MSU wins; lose $300 bet on others, so you’re up $200 but $100 of that was your own to begin with, so that’s +100 net

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, sorry.

Stupid British sites, just use the moneyline like regular countries.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

And for the record.

I still don’t love it. I would rather take a flier on one of the “2nd tier” 3.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

That whole division is crazy. Nebraska has high-risk, high-reward with PSU and OSU right off the conference bat. Who knows what the hell to think of Michigan with Denard and a non-Denard offense. Huskers have to play at Michigan. Iowa and MSU are both as good as Michigan, better depending on your perspective.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I call Nebraksa a high-risk, low reward pick

I give them about a 20% chance of winning it, but at 1/2 odds? Not with a ten foot pole. Maybe they’ll do it; I don’t give anybody in that division more than a 30% chance, but certainly not worth the payout

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know what's going to happen?

I’m going to pick Washington to beat Nebraska because I’m stupid. Then Nebraska will beat the life out of Washington and convince everyone they’re awesome.

And then they’ll go 7-5 or maybe 8-4.

Bydand.

by ReadingRambler on Aug 2, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I pretty much expect this exact thing to happen

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you think the odds for Nebraska winning the division are >40% off? I seriously hope you’re not actually betting on this stuff.

by Kunk on Aug 2, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Remember

Vegas doesn’t give a rat’s ass about being right. They only try to set lines that will inspire an even amount of betting on both sides of the bet. That’s all. They frequently are correct, because the betting public’s perception usually isn’t that bad on a dollar weighted average, but they frequently are wrong. Wrong all the way to the bank, assuming they set a line that inspired an even amount of betting on both sides.

Yes, I think Vegas’ expectation of the betting public’s perception is more than 40% off of reality.

I don’t gamble. Anymore. I’ve made enough in my day to buy SBN if I wanted to.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ll throw in, though, that there’s a lot of evidence that they don’t try to perfectly balance the lines every time. So keep that in mind.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

They 100% do not

I have heard line setters on Chad Millman’s podcast say if they like a game and know the public will bet one way, they will take a significant risk (i.e. 60-40), and not think twice about it.

by STU Boy on Aug 2, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on the volume and reserves

yes, sometimes Vegas will bet against the public, but that’s usually only if they expect low volume and have significant reserves to back a bet. Also, it could be a “bait” bet. Make one that looks too easy to inspire people to bet on other things while they’re around. They may lose money on that bet, but the volume inspired across the board is worth it.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not reserves, so much as "lay off" bets

They rarely let a line get too lopsided without playing a lay off bet with a 2nd casino on the side opposite the one they are seeing the most action on. While they may make a trap line here or there, they are pretty brilliant at risk management and will never leave themselves too vulnerable on either side of the ledger.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 2, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm having deja vu

Because I’ve had this discussion with you before.

1) The betting public is not the only thing “Vegas” needs to worry about when setting lines.
2) If the Nebraska line is so far off, why does every book on the market have this approximate price? Don’t you think someone would have slammed this by now, effecting a major change across the entire landscape?

by Kunk on Aug 2, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't stay too focused on one line

Bait bets are very, very real.

Why wouldn’t every book have that approximate price?

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Books don't bet against one another; they only compete for bets

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can make up whatever fables to justify the reasoning, but saying ANY line is > 40% wrong is just plain ignorant.

by Kunk on Aug 2, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

They actually do bet against one another

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 2, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but only as insurance

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, but action is action

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 2, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

and relatively small action is relatively small action

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can sell them a glass of lemonade when they come through.

But what’s that, a dollar fifty? No, you can’t make much money off of that.

BSD Wentworth
Co-Founding Partner
Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, tell me about the investment you made

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

IOLTA?

More line IOLetItRide!

"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."

by MainLion on Aug 2, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I should have clarified: I’m just referring to their opening and confidence. They’re in crisis mode if they go in as favorites and lose to both OSU and PSU right off the bat. If they win those, they’re PSU 1994.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is that Penn State line serious?

I’ve been gambling for a long time, and was practically raised at Philadelphia Park, so I’ve seen some weird odds. But I’ve never seen 20 as a denominator in a line before. Is 2.15/1 that much of a stretch over 2/1?

@EpicTripod
BSD
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 2, 2011 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

It's strange

It’s basically saying, “we expect people to bet as if they perceive PSU has a slightly less than 1 in 3 chance of winning it, but a greater than 2/3 chance that if the season were played 3 times, they’d win it at least once”

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

So the only thing that goes toward your chances at a division title,

is your record against your division, correct? In other words, it doesn’t matter what Penn State does against Nebraska or Iowa or NW, right?

I'm just here for the beer.

by Illegal Formation on Aug 2, 2011 10:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Incorrect.

BSD Wentworth
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yessir.

BSD Wentworth
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*

*Accepting Applications

by PSUinBOSSton on Aug 2, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is. The thing about losing out of division, though, is that you don’t get hit with the tiebreaker loss too. So that’s helpful.

by Kevin Powers on Aug 2, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Got it.

Thanks.

I'm just here for the beer.

by Illegal Formation on Aug 2, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

ARitt to the rescue...
According to the Big Ten, here are the basic tiebreakers for determining division winners:

1. Conference record

2. Head-to-head record

3. Record within the division

4. BCS ranking

LINKY

@EpicTripod
BSD
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Aug 2, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

PSU Steeleisms

Phil’s Power Plays system (one of a small handful of computers he uses) thinks PSU will have the #2 scoring defense and #2 total defense in the country. #1? Alabama

On offense, Phil projects PSU will have the second most improved rushing offense and scoring offense in the country, behind Idaho and Colorado State, respectively. While Phil puts PSU in a tie with Michigan State as the best scoring offense in the B1G (33.0 ppg), this does not ranking in the national 12 best. It is 10th best amongst BCS schools.

Phil thinks PSU’s avg MOV will be far and away the best in the B1G (18.1 ppg, second best is a tie between Nebraska and Ohio State at 11.9, third is MSU at 9.4). He also thinks PSU’s average ypg difference will be the best — 210 (!!); OSU is second at 150, Nebraska is third at 100. Games against Eastern Michigan and Indiana State certainly help, but it’s not like other teams aren’t playing cupcakes and regardless, those numbers are just gross.

Phil predicts a 3-way tie at the top of the Leaders division at 6-2. He thinks PSU will start 6-0 and lose to both Wisconsin and Ohio State, but solely because they’re road games.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Give me that Kool Aid

A win against Bama? Okay. I think if we beat them, the confidence it would give the team would be enough to carry them through the season.

Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Aug 2, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that 6-2 factored OOC games

I’m not sure what he said about PSU – Alabama, but I don’t think it was included in ckmneon’s post.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 2, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't

Phil didn’t say anything too specific about it, but I get the impression he expects a close PSU loss there

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, that's pretty impressive

There are a lot of metrics that seem to show Penn State as a very strong under-the-radar team this year.

About a month ago, I looked through the schedule and saw a lot of games that didn’t inspire confidence….but now, looking at the specific factors that seem to correlate to winning in CFB, I’m starting to get excited.

1. Paterno seems confident, and is giving the impression that he believes in this team; 2. the expectation of an across-the-board better offense; 3. Computer models (not based on hype) giving us better chances than the general media, 4. We have a defense that sets up very well to preserve a lead (great secondary, and no doubt the question mark D-line will improve its numbers when they can pin their ears back and rush the passer).

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Aug 2, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phil seems to think just as I do

that anything from 8-4 to 12-0 is totally in the cards, but whereas I say 10-2 +/- 1 win, he says 9-3 +/- 1 win

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

the big11 gets killed in the national champ hunt and in the national champ odds

b/c the division is so deep, even moreso this year with Nebrasky. It’s just too difficult for anyone to go undefeated.

Huskers will lose at least two in conference. But might still win the big ten championship.

I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.

by spakajewia on Aug 2, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely true

If Alabama or LSU were in the B1G, either very well might be the favorite (Oklahoma might be too, but I’m not all that convinced that they’re better than Nebraska, let alone a few others). According to the SEC media, the third best team in the SEC is either Arkansas or South Carolina. I wouldn’t put either in the B1G top 4, maybe not even the top 6.

A B1G team might go undefeated, but expecting that anyone actually will is sorta nuts.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Auburn and Oregon

Oregon had just lost the bulk of their offense and some solid role players. Auburn was a play here and a play there away from going 6-6. Seriously.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Aug 2, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

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