On Matt McGloin, Moxie, and Emotion
This post is built neither on facts and figures, nor statistics and spreadsheets. It's not scientific or mathematical. No, this post is built on pure, sweet emotion.
Basically, it's the quintessential post on Matt McGloin.
The days following the Alabama loss have provoked an exceptionally emotional response. We've seen that here; in the past three days, we've seen threads of 600, 250, and 350 comments respectively. A large percentage of these comments are centered on the quarterback battle between McGloin and true sophomore Rob Bolden. More specifically, many comments have sounded a lot like this:
At one level, Bolden seems like the obvious answer, but his confidence is clearly shaken. McGloin is less flappable, but no one seems sure if he's got enough talent to be a consistent Division I quarterback. It's a mess now, fodder for all sorts of sound and fury; by the fourth quarter, the Penn State crowd was so perplexed that it didn't even know which quarterback it was supposed to be booing.
You can quibble with the language, but Weinreb's view is consensus - Bolden is imperfectly talented but probably the best option, McGloin has moxie, and Penn State is paralyzed by indecision and confusion. A recipe for success.
It's difficult to argue with the view that Mike Pettigano articulated yesterday. In fact, I won't. Over the past two games, Rob Bolden has been a better quarterback than Matt McGloin and deserves to start and play a full game against Temple, Eastern Michigan, and the rest of this year's schedule. He's tall, strong, and athletic with a pro-level arm and a presence in the pocket. He's the future of Penn State football.
I've watched Bolden step up in the pocket and rifle a throw to a receiver while taking a vicious hit just after the ball has been released. I've seen him risk his body for the team while running for a first down. I've seen him effortlessly flick his wrist and throw the ball thirty plus yards down the field. I've seen all of this with my own eyes. I've discussed this with people repeatedly. Even still, I, just like Joe Paterno, continue to struggle with choosing one of the two permanently.
Admittedly, this is not a popular opinion. In light of McGloin's 1 for 10, 0 yard performance on Saturday night, it's virtually unspeakable.[1] Yet I continue to struggle because one very specific question lingers in my mind - have we been fair to Matt McGloin?
/ducks
Seriously. The entire off-season was dedicated to kvetching about McGloin's Outback Interception Spectacular and the question of whether Joe Paterno would treat Rob Bolden fairly in the wake of the Transfer Ransom of 2011. I agree that Bolden is a better prospect than McGloin; that his arm is stronger, his physical ability is greater, and his ceiling is higher. But in our haste to be fair to Rob Bolden, I honestly believe it's necessary to ask myself whether we've been fair to Matt McGloin.
Both consciously and subconsciously, this fan base has always looked to give Rob Bolden the benefit of the doubt.
"He stands tall in the pocket and takes a hit."
"He's got great mechanics."
"He's got a great deep ball."
"If only the receivers hadn't dropped those passes."
"Just imagine what he'll look like with all of the first team reps."
Meanwhile, we conveniently ignore the lack of touch on his short passes and screens, his Mark Sanchez-like sliding, and his mediocre accuracy. Rob Bolden has completed 17 passes out of 41 attempts for 181 yards and no touchdowns. Even assuming that one of the two deep passes at Indiana State connects, that would still leave him with a completion rate under 50% and a 1:1 touchdown to interception ratio. In short, Rob Bolden hasn't been anywhere near good. If anything, he's a shade below mediocre. And he's standing next to Matt McGloin.
I won't argue that Bolden isn't the best man for the job, but I will argue that the difference between Bolden and McGloin isn't nearly as dramatic as the commentary would suggest. But while we look for reasons to love Bolden, the talented sophomore with the rocket arm and enough potential to fill Beaver Stadium, we only see the negative in his rival.
It's true that Matt McGloin is inexorably flawed. It's inarguable. His arm is average, not elite. He's mobile on the roll out but isn't athletic enough to run the read option. He's built to be a successful game manager, but insists on gun slinging into multi-man coverage.
Some of McGloin's positives have been discussed ad nauseum.
Bolden is clearly the better athlete, but McGloin is better in the role of quarterback. He runs a loose huddle. He makes off-color jokes. He's Brett Favre without the size or the arm strength.
Even if Rob Bolden was named starting quarterback tomorrow, I won't choose to think of Matt McGloin as merely the second place finisher in a quarterback derby. And I never will, because honestly, Matt McGloin was never supposed to be here in the first place.
Matt McGloin isn't just another guy. In reality, he rivals Deon Butler as the greatest walk-on tale in the storied history of Penn State football. While some choose to harp on the Outback Bowl nightmare, Saturday's debacle, or the perception that McGloin is arrogant and entitled, I choose to see a quarterback who could have gone to Lehigh or Lafayette for free, but decided instead to walk on and pay his own way at Penn State. I see a guy who was never expected to be anything more than Paul Cianciolo, Kevin Suhey, or Chris Ganter. Instead, he was pressed into competition after an injury and managed to lead the Nittany Lions to multiple conference victories. I see a guy who engineered an unbelievable comeback featuring five straight touchdown drives against Northwestern, guiding Joe Paterno to his 400th win in historic and unprecedented fashion. I see this pass - without hyperbole, the most beautiful pass I've ever seen (at 4:55).
(via xJoepa23x)
I see a kid who didn't threaten to transfer after his starting role was put up for grabs. I see a kid who's loyal to Penn State, and who, by all appearances, has done everything right in the classroom and off the field.
A football team needs one man to lead. We can't afford to waste another week (or two, or three, or four) splitting reps, dividing team loyalty, and throwing the offense consistently out of rhythm. So yes, Rob Bolden has most likely won this quarterback derby, not because he is the overwhelmingly obvious choice, but because this team, this coach, and this school need to make a decision and move on. But let's avoid piling on Matt McGloin, the walk-on star with a fantastic story that should not be obscured by our own biased judgments.
[1] For everyone except Joe Paterno, who thinks that both quarterbacks "played a pretty good game." For the record, they were a combined 12-39 for 144 yards and 1 interception.
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Fantastic post, Adam
most definitely rec’d
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
Well said
even though I got shit for making many of these points
by InScoresOfOtherGames on Sep 14, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not praising the points he made
just how he made them
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know you rec'd my Defensive Coordinator comment from yesterday
I was thinking more about it specifically for Temple.
Do you think Addazio doesn’t have access to Florida’s game plan and tape from last year? Or that he didn’t see what happened with his own eyes? I’d rather McGloin sat this one out.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Ouch. Burn.
:)
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
We give McGloin a little love in the podcast today, too.
His story is a success story. Doesn’t mean that he should be PSU’s starting quarterback, but the point remains.
Exactly
When Mac played well, I absolutely cheered for him. That’s why in yesterday’s post I wrote that he has proven all he can; I used the ceiling analogy for that reason. Mac seems to have hit his own ceiling, which no one can dog him for. It won Penn State some games last year. But that’s last year, not this year.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
We should all wish
to hit the ceiling of our potential. Few of us do.
by PSU Mudder on Sep 14, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd for non-football reasons.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Def caused me to realize I have been too hard on the guy
Thanks!
Reporter: Can you give us a touchdown celebration, one that you would get penalized for?
Moye: I play at Penn State. I don’t celebrate.
I agree with one particular statement in your post
A football team needs one man to lead
Please just pick a QB who can start to assume the leadership role and give our offense some direction. I don’t care who, but I can’t handle this anymore.
There may be no dramatic difference between McGloin and Bolden
but there is a dramatic difference between McGloin and Deion Butler. In fact, the only similarity is that they’re both walk-ons.
by Mr. Rosewater on Sep 14, 2011 8:59 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Yes
This struck me as way, way off the mark.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And in all fairness
probably slighted a lot of guys like Greg Garrity, Troy Drayton, Rich Gardner, Josh Hull, etc.
"I don't think you can progress in this game unless you know about the past."
-Silas Redd
Why would McGloin have threatened to transfer?
He was never pulled even when he played spectacularly poorly.
As to the ultimate question you raise: have we been fair to McGloin? I say yes. He made those plays in the second half against O$U and all game against Florida. Nobody else did that. If he had played as he did against NW or O$U (first half) more often, I don’t think many would be complaining. Unfortunately, we know his limitations because HIS play has demonstrated them above all else. That seems entirely fair to me.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 9:00 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
RE: McGloin Transfering
Not only do I think that he doesn’t have the skills to transfer to another D-I program, I don’t think that he even has the right to do something like that. He’s a former walk-on and if I were a coach and a former walk-on threatened to transfer, he’d be off the team immediately. “We gave you this incredible chance and this is how you repay us? See ya!” If anything, he’s extremely lucky to be in the position that he currently holds and considering that nobody would give him a D-I scholarship coming out of high school, would any sane, big-time coach give him one after the second half of last year? I think not. So McGloin transferring or threatening to transfer is what we refer to around here as a “moo” point.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Sep 14, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I vehemently disagree that McGloin isn't skilled enough to transfer to another FBS program.
Has anyone actually seen some of the QBs that line up under center outside of the B1G, Big XII, SEC or Pac-12?
I find this argument the same as when people on message boards were aghast that PSU was considered a top 10 team early in the 2009 season because we “didn’t look like one.” It’s all relative. Penn State wasn’t the best team in the country. But find me a legitimate argument why the teams behind us were better.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that he could play D-I football
but that’s only because the Big East still plays football (right?). Between the Big East, MAC, WAC and Sun Belt, he could play D-I ball.
But, in reality, he could not have transferred to a D-I program. He would have had to transfer, sit out a year and only have one year of eligibility remaining. Unless you’re Cam Newton (and, yes, I know he wasn’t a transfer), teams aren’t lining up for a one year rental on Matt McGloin. Nope, not even Pitt.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Great post.
Here is my two cents, for what it’s worth and I said this yesterday and I stand by it.
Neither Bolden or McGloin have been great, neither of them have made this a no brainer and thus we are in this debate. But to me, the issue is that the things Bolden struggles with are things that presumably can be fixed and or improved. The things McGloin struggles with are not really fixable. You are talking about having a kid change his entire approach and I just don’t see it happening but it could.
At the end of the day, I want Bolden to start but if Joe Pa and the coaches, or whoever is ultimately making the decision picks McGloin then so be it. I won’t be thrilled but I’ll accept it. I want this ridiculous QB rotation to end more than I want Bolden to be the full time starter, if that makes any sense.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
agreed
I probably lean toward Bolden since he can develop this year for the next few (hopefully), but in reality I just want to stop seeing this absurd rotation more than I love/loathe either guy.
by ChillBillinChina on Sep 14, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
THIS!
It was always an emotional thing for me. Not in the dramatic sob story type of emotion, but in the imperfect memory of events as they happened. I was never really all that sure who would be a better starter. I was a McGloin guy based on the first half of O$u and NW. I didn’t remember (or feel) Bolden had games like that. Where he came in and things turned or went fantastically.
I now give the slight edge to Bolden because he was able to move the O against Bama more than McGloin. Now it is becoming obvious to me that a choice must be made.
Making the wrong choice here is not as harmful as making no choice.
I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD
Also; Always carry a bottle opener and the beer will provide itself.
Making no choice is essentially making a choice.
If Joe isn’t willing to pick one guy, then he’s willing to sacrifice this season and any prospect of developing a leader at the most important position on the field. If he can’t decide this year, what’s to stop him from not deciding next year?
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This
Pretty much how i feel! Thanks for putting it more succinctly than I managed to in the post below! :)
by PennState-India on Sep 14, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
An unflappable man with moxie...
I was told once by a humanities professor that the “most self-assured people are also the most ignorant — the only way to be extremely self-assured is to be unaware of just how complex the world is, just how much is out there.” At the time I thought he was nuts. However, with the passing of time I’ve come to realize just how right he was. Sure you get focused leadership, but that leader might be just as likely to lead you off of a cliff as to victory.
Now, I’m not accusing McGloin of ignorance. I simply want to point out that “moxie” will always be a double-edged sword. It’s almost like a tragic flaw.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
That's the exact description of what Mac does on the field
he can have a beautiful pass one minute, but on the next throw chuck a pick-6.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
To quote one of my favorite movies, Bull Durham
“The world is made for people who aren’t cursed with self awareness.” If that ain’t the truth.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
by 06Lion on Sep 14, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Slightly OT-
Sometimes, thinking about the controversy takes me back to the last time we had such an indecision at QB (2008), with Clark and Devlin. I’m sure many had their favorites back then too, but the good part about that controversy was that both those guys displayed a sense of command, ability, and most importantly consistency in the first 3-4 games of the rotation. At the end of the day, despite whoever was chosen, I just felt that they couldn’t go wrong with either of the 2 , and the offense would be OK. And regardless of any what-if scenarios, I think we did (and would have done) pretty well in those 2 seasons.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said yet about either Bolden or McGloin, and the situation almost infuriates me that either one cannot seem to consistently separate himself from the other. Sometimes , it almost feels like fate is against the QB situation! When Bolden seems to be getting into a groove, he gets concussions. When McGloin seemingly appears to settle down, he visits interception-land. 1 guy seems to be able to move the chains, but seems quite ineffective at the red zone ( I am hoping that the last drive against ’Bama is the beginning of a trend and not a one-off event). The other guy seems to be much more of a gambler.
Going forward, I am really not sure what to expect! If Bolden is chosen as THE guy, I hope some of those issues from his passing game gets fixed. if McGloin is The man, then I hope he cages his inner (D-II) Farve , for good.
by PennState-India on Sep 14, 2011 9:35 AM EDT reply actions
There's a glaring difference
between 2008 and 2011… in 2008 the quarterback battle was never really up for grabs. Daryll Clark started all the games, and played roughly 80 of the snaps in the first few. Pat Devlin never played a meaningful snap until Clark went down against OSU.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
You're correct Mike
My bad on that one.
I just looked back at some of those stats and Clark did get the starts , though Devlin saw some amount of action in the first few games ( games against Coastal Carolina and Syracuse , if I remember correctly).
What I meant to say was that when we did see Clark of Devlin in, the offense did seem to roll OK with either of the 2 in. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said yet about Bolden/McGloin , or atleast with some consistency. I just hope that 2 -3 weeks down the line, we’re able to say that about either of the 2, whoever it is.
I just hope the coaches pick their guy, give him the majority of the snaps and ensure that there’s continuity by the time we hit the conference schedule.
by PennState-India on Sep 14, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
The other difference here is
That Clark/Devlin were much better than Bolden/McGloin, as was the rest of the offense in 08.
Formerly known as kmart93
@kmart93
Black Shoe Diaries
by Kyle_Martin on Sep 14, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like there’s some residual feelings toward McGloin from that NW game still. Everyone saw what he could do, but it’s apparent that’s not his norm. Has everyone been entirely fair to him? Probably not. On the bright side for him, though, is that he goes down in history as the one who won JoePa’s 400th. If I were him, I’d be fine with that.
On a related note, the end of the video still gives me chills.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Sep 14, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions
Can we adopt a mantra here?
Can we cut the McDerp crap? I’m tired of reading that here.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 14, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Yes
I’m seconding that request
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Ginger?
Is Ginger™ ok?
Or Ginger Jr since we have the original roaming the sidelines.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
Ginger is fine.
Being one myself, I don’t find it all that offensive.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 14, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
That's fair
but we should also drop Bolden’s transfer request as evidence of poor character. I’ve said it before, but who wouldn’t have wanted to leave after not getting in that Florida game? Only a guy who DOESN’T want to compete.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not the transfer request that bugs me, it's the way that it was handled.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
That said, I don't care or think about that anymore. It's 9 months later, everyone is still here, and people have stopped talking about it.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Except it's brought up by anyone still in McGloin's corner as evidence of Bolden's
(take your pick): (a) immaturity; (b) lack of leadership; © selfishness; or (d) all of the above.
Any QB worth having would have requested a transfer after what happened in the Florida game.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't realize you copyrighted selfishness, kijana's acl!
But I think it was his dad who handled things poorly, not necessarily Bolden.
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
But that's so selfish!
LOL!
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
by Paige2PSU on Sep 14, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
How should it have been handled?
A calligraphied letter to Sue?
I assume you mean by not bringing his dad to the meeting, but that seems to be the common practice when these types of decisions are made (see, e.g., Devlin).
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think they should've gone to the press with it without talking to the coaches first.
You’re on a team, be a team player. If you have your grievances, then air them to the people that matter. I think it was handled extremely poorly.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
That was his dad
If we’re going to hold him accountable for things that his dad did, then, well, I don’t know where it ends. I hope that my children are never held accountable for misdeeds.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to hold this as a quote,
for the next time you bring up Cam Newton.
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
by Paige2PSU on Sep 14, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, please.
I have nothing sarcastic or humorous whatsoever to say about the Temple Owls.
Beat Temple.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 14, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
If my kids don’t question where all the jets, blow and hookers came from (my ponzi scheme, of course), then they’re culpable. If they’re held responsible for the things I post on this site, then that’s sad. I don’t think I’m being inconsistent, but I look forward to you using my words against me.
Also, Cam Newton was bought and paid for. And he knew it.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough argument re your consistency.
I still disagree about Cam Newton, but what do you expect?
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
After my freshman year at PSU I wanted to leave
I think the day before I went back for my sophmore year I broke down and told my parents I didn’t want to go back.
Fortunately that all changed after the semester started, things couldn’t have gotten any better.
I’m glad I went back, best decision I’ve ever made and don’t regret it one bit.
by whiteoutonly on Sep 14, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
anyway, my point
basically I can’t hold it against Bolden that much.
18 year olds can be confused folks
by whiteoutonly on Sep 14, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
agree..
I didn’t have a great 1st semester and wanted to transfer. 2nd semester was way better and the rest is history.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 14, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Transferring
I too wanted to transfer after half a term. I didn’t but then decided to halfway through 1st term sophomore year. Maybe a mistake to wait but long term it didn’t hurt me a bit.
"You can't handle the truth!"
Did you go to or from Penn State?
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Exactly. I wanted to transfer from my undergrad after half of first semester. Thank God I didn’t…those were the best 4 years of my life. I have no idea how Bolden feels about the school in general, but I could see it playing a part in his decision to transfer. After any football stuff.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Sep 14, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I transferred from Penn State in the middle of my junior year,
I always regretted it, so I went back for grad school. Things worked out for the best, though.
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
Did Bolden bring this on himself....
by trying to quit this team only 9 months ago? That fact could go a long in explaining the current situation. Even over the summer he seemed non-committal when asked about what he was going to do. The same people who are blasting Joe about the current QB situation would be blasting him if he did not prepare McGloin. What if if Bolden bombed early and decided to leave the program? This team has too much talent to not have at least a serviceable QB. It seems that Bolden left the this team hanging a bit in the off season and is now reaping what he sowed. Wouldn’t any good coach play the back-up QB more if the starter was even a little bit less then 100% commited to the success of the program?
Losing a game is heartbreaking. Losing your sense of excellence or worth is a tragedy.
Joe Paterno
This is what I think also.
I start to wander if Bolden didn’t say that he was going to transfer would we even have this QB discussion. We all knew after the Florida game what was going to happen. I think if Bolden had a concussion last year then he needed to sit. I think it was wrong that after Mcgloin threw all those interceptions that Bolden didn’t get in but come on don’t be a cry baby that threaten to transfer just to get your way. That is what scares me about have Bolden as the start if things get tough for him is he going to chicken out and ask for a transfer again?
I'm not sure Bolden gets a chance if he doesn't threaten to transfer
It’s not McGloin was all-world after NW. He struggled quite a bit and Bolden played no meaningful snaps after being pulled against NW. It’s almost like Joe forgot he had a viable option to McGloin.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know about that first comment (wouldn't have had a chance without transfer request),
but I think you understated saying he “struggled a bit”. In his first three or so series McGloin was other-worldly bad. Far worse than Bolden was at the start of the game. In fact, if you remember, on the sideline Joe told Bolden he was going back in. Then, he physically grabbed him as he ran out on to the field and changed his mind, sent McGloin back in. That yoyo’ing would upset as much as . . . well as much as not knowing when I’m going in the games this season until I’m tapped and sent out with the offense.
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by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 14, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If Joe Paterno is that petty and immature
then forget getting rid of Bolden, get rid of Paterno. Because if he’s holding a personal grudge against Bolden, and causing the team to suffer as a result of it, then Paterno is actually purposely harming the football program just because his ego was insulted.
A Garden State Nittany Lion...
"The way things are these days, 9-3 and one of the best graduation rates in the country doesn't seem like such a terrible bargain to make. - Michael Weinreb"
by Mike Pettigano on Sep 14, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
I don’t understand this either. It was Joe who wouldn’t let him go, so why hold a grudge?
If Joe thought McGloin would always be better than Bolden he would have told him to walk, but he obviously sees the potential in Rob.
by whiteoutonly on Sep 14, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It may not be a grudge
but it may be part of Paterno’s master plan for how to handle guys. He motivates different people in different ways, and keeping Bolden on the hot seat may simply be Joe’s prescription for getting the best out of the kid.
McGloin...
Thank you Adam for expressing a sentiment that I have tried to convey (not nearly as well) since the Outback Bowl. I think the name calling (Ginger, McDerp, McFavre) is petty. He seems to be a decent guy who wants nothing more (right now) than to play football at PSU. A little cocky? Yes, but who among us was a perfect person in college?
"I'll keep it short and sweet. Family. Religion. Friendship.
These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business."
"You don't want to analyze it...you want to admire it!" - Play by play guy on O.J. McDuffie TD catch against Ga. Tech.
by Esteban d' Amur on Sep 14, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I've had it with you people
you’re nothing but a bunch of fickle mush-heads!

He’s right! Give us hell, Quimby!!
"I don't think you can progress in this game unless you know about the past."
-Silas Redd
by PSU_Buch on Sep 14, 2011 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
My problem with Bolden
Is that he’s not terribly accurate, He seems scattershot to me. I think leadership and confidence issues that he had before are gone. I agree he probably deserves to start the next two games to see what he can do. I probably would have started him to begin the season and if he struggled you always have Mac. I don’t think the same is true if you start Mac to begin the season. And QB depth this season is thin. I dunno, I thought Mac would have played better against Bama but he didn’t seem relaxed to me. I thought he rushed throws. Since I don’t believe in either guy. Put me in Jones in 2012 camp for now.
We Are!!!!!!
Keeping Up With The Joneses?
I’m Jonesing for Jones?
Regardless, I’ve been in the PJ Camp since Day One and I really hope that he gets his academics straightened out because I think that he could be something special.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Sep 14, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
#TeamMornhinweg2012
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey! I'm Brett Favre too....
It’s just that I have no mobility, throw into 3-man coverage and have a weak arm…oh did I tell you I was a walk-on……Joe has made a pact with the Devil and it ain’t going away soon. I tell you, this insistance of playing 2 QBs is merely the setup for the end of the year, “I shoulda played_______more.” It’s Jay’s call and Joe sticks up for the FUBAR. We don’t need an importatnt position as QB with both of the players looking over their shoulders everytime they feel that they’ve messed-up. And, of course, PJ is the greatest QB since Kerry Collins. I though that was going to be Devlin or Newsome(a little levity for my statement).
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
wow..
Joe has made a pact with the Devil and it ain’t going away soon
Derry, when you write stuff like this it really scares the crap out of me.
by Artiefufkin10 on Sep 14, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't mean to scare anyone, but.....
WE all have our picks for QB….I just want Joe/Jay?etc. pick one and go from there….believe me linemen do NOT care for the shuffling and alternating of the position…what does scare me is that we may end up with another 7 win season….I think we are better than that, maybe 9 wins, but if the indecision remains we may be looking at another Illinois game like we did last year when the B1G schedule starts and the schedule IS difficult….I take nothing for granted.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." The Government is like the Mob, you can check out, but never leave.
by DerryPharmer on Sep 14, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair?
The staff has given McGloin plenty of chances to succeed. I think the fact that they had a quick hook with Bolden but McGloin was left in the bowl has left the fans confused as to why they stuck with McGloin so much.
Fair is irrelevant. Bolden should be starting.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
The world isn't fair! Truth isn't fair!
Is it fair that you were born like this?
Opinions are like f---holes. Everyone has at least two.
It's Czechoslovakia
It’s like going to Wisconsin
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
by psuphiman80 on Sep 14, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not about the coaches. They've been more than fair to McGloin. I just don't think we have.
And I include myself in that group.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice post, Adam
I’ve pretty much spoken my peace about the QB situation over the past few days. As I’ve mentioned in previous comments, I just want to see someone step up and TAKE the QB job, not just be declared the winner because he played less poorly than the other. There is so much of the season to go and if one QB can do that, there is still plenty of time for success in this season and a lot of this will be long forgotten.
by mundyscorner99 on Sep 14, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions
Really nice post, but have we been that hard on him?
I really think that was a well written post with some great points, Adam. My only hang-up is that I don’t feel like fans, at least the BSD community, has been all that hard on the kid. I think a lot of recent posts have said things like “Bolden was the better QB Saturday” and “Let’s pick one and stick with him, whoever it is.” However, I don’t think we have been unreasonable in our assessment of his RECENT play.
I am in no way the writer that you guys are here on the blog, so maybe someone better than I can give us stats, etc at a later date, but one could argue that McGloin has played his way out of the job over the past two games (I won’t bring up the Outback because Bolden did not play, so it is unfair to say he would have done any better). Neither QB wowed us against ISU, and a 1-10 for 0 yrds stat line this past weekend doesn’t deserve a pat on the back.
I agree with your point that we have been looking at a lot of Bolden positive and not the negative, but I think that is because the shoe is on the other foot this season. Last year we didn’t harp on McGloin negatives when he was winning us games because he had that “it” factor. The team looked more composed and McGloin looked like a leader while Bolden looked shaky, confused. However, I think it has been the exact opposite this season. McGloin has not looked as sure of himself this season. I don’t think the line/rbs have looked as good under his command and the feel of the stadium and team seems more confident with no. 1 undercenter.
Bolden is no Big 10 all conference candidate, heck he wouldn’t be an all Big Least candidate so far this year, but I think the fanbase has supported him because he has that winning feeling that McGloin had last season. We definitely have Matt McGloin to thank for a few wins last year, but let’s not be too thin skinned this year because of that. I think the fans are saying, give us Bolden because he has shown us more THIS year, and most people I would hope would realize McGloin is a helluva option if Robo can’t get the job done.
I get the paper. I go to the bathroom. I take the paper in there and I scan it. I look at it. The first thing I do is look at who died. All right. Second thing I look at are headlines. Something that says, "Paterno is the Greatest," I read it. -JVP
Wow, sorry everybody for the book, got a little carried away!
I get the paper. I go to the bathroom. I take the paper in there and I scan it. I look at it. The first thing I do is look at who died. All right. Second thing I look at are headlines. Something that says, "Paterno is the Greatest," I read it. -JVP
by wek5000lion09 on Sep 14, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this community has been incredibly harsh on him, but I can't say the same about the Penn State community at large.
I do think McGloin was still criticized even when we were winning last year because people wanted Bolden back in the driver’s seat. Bolden’s back in the driver’s seat now. McGloin may have played his way out of the position, but Bolden certainly hasn’t done anything to warrant being placed back in it. They’ve both been particularly mediocre.
Bolden is no Big 10 all conference candidate, heck he wouldn’t be an all Big Least candidate so far this year, but I think the fanbase has supported him because he has that winning feeling that McGloin had last season.
I’m not sure why this would be, particularly since we haven’t won anything of significance. The reason Bolden looks like a winner is because he’s NOT the QB that threw 5 picks in the Outback Bowl and there’s a temporal disconnect between now and last year’s Illinois game where he looked woefully inadequate against a team with a remarkably mediocre defense.
Both were fine in the ISU game. Bolden was below average against Alabama. McGloin’s performance was terrible. I think that people want Bolden, the big time recruit, to win the job so much that they’ve lost perspective on the Matt McGloin story. It’s a good story and a successful one, regardless of the outcome. Meanwhile, I think we’d all be happier if Bolden went 17-21 for 250 and 2 TDs this weekend to end the debate entirely.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Great point
I think that people want Bolden, the big time recruit, to win the job so much that they’ve lost perspective on the Matt McGloin story.
I think you’re absolutely right there. His (Bolden’s) mediocre has looked better in the rosy colored glasses we have been wearing when he is on the field. I guess I should have stated more clearly that Bolden has not looked GOOD, but better on Saturday than Matt was, and that is why I felt most people this week were pushing for his start.
As for your point on the PSU fanbase in general, to be honest I try to just read and discuss this stuff with you here at BSD because other places can be so doom and gloom, so I concede the point to you, sir! Either way great post, and I think Rambler would be proud, definitely response and not reaction on your part!
I get the paper. I go to the bathroom. I take the paper in there and I scan it. I look at it. The first thing I do is look at who died. All right. Second thing I look at are headlines. Something that says, "Paterno is the Greatest," I read it. -JVP
by wek5000lion09 on Sep 14, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. It's why I like it here.
I’ve said before that I’ve been a BWI subscriber for some time and I used to semi-regularly post on those boards, but I literally can’t stand to be there anymore.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
They keep giving Matt McGloin chances because, quite frankly, Rob Bolden hasn't really been demonstrably better.
I hesitate to criticize Matt McGloin because his story is relevant to fan discussion of the team.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
but when has Bolden had the chance to be better?
Honestly? We forget that before Bolden got hurt, he was completing 60% of his passes, so its not like he was a disaster. Since then he has never gotten a chance to prove he “is who we thought he was” He was benched in favor of McGloin once he got hurt and watched him torch terrible defenses and struggle against good ones. He watched from the sidelines the entire Florida game. He watched nearly the entire Ohio State game, luckilly he got mop up time for 1 last drive.
I have no idea if Bolden would have been better or worse than McGloin against Northwestern or Michigan or Ohio State or Florida. Thats speculation. But what I do know is he never has had a chance to prove he could be. To me, I’ve seen McGloin play bad teams, I’ve seen McGloin play good teams. He’s had more than his opportunities to prove hes a big time QB and has failed. But I dont know how anyone can say definitively that Bolden has had those same chances McGloin has.
The two essentially threw the same amount of passes last year and have alternated series this year.
I can comfortably say that Bolden was worse than McGloin against Northwestern. He couldn’t pick up a blitz, change any protections, and nearly got concussed again. There was a ball security and safety issue. Meanwhile, McGloin played the game of his life. We can talk about Northwestern’s defensive prowess (or lack thereof) all we want, but that doesn’t matter here. Bolden looked good against Minnesota and Youngstown State, not very good against Alabama, Iowa, Illinois and Northwestern, and basically ok against Kent State.
McGloin has proven to be erratic. Most of the time, he’s either a big time QB or a big time risk. I don’t think he’s the answer, but I’m not sold that Bolden’s accomplished anything in the amount of time he’s been out there either.
People are calling from the rooftops for Joe to just name a starter, any starter, for the sake of consistency. What I find interesting is that Joe actually did that last year. He chose Bolden, who was “eh.” Bolden got hurt, McGloin looked great and gave the team a bit of a spark. He made the decision to go with McGloin and only McGloin. Then people raged at him for that. There’s no winning this battle for him.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec
I have nothing sarcastic or humorous whatsoever to say about the Temple Owls.
Beat Temple.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 14, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Bolden got hurt, McGloin looked great and gave the team a bit of a spark. He made the decision to go with McGloin and only McGloin. Then people raged at him for that. There’s no winning this battle for him.
I think thats a big reason that Bolden didn’t get in against Florida. The game was still close and the selected quarterback was still able to potentially get it done.
When the competition gets opened up again in the off-season and a decision is not made as to who will be “the guy”, that is where a lot of the agitation comes from.
I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD
Also; Always carry a bottle opener and the beer will provide itself.
by bconway6 on Sep 14, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who is better or should be starter is not my point
Its been argued by everyone here ad nauseum, and its not going anywhere. My point is not that Bolden should be the starter or that McGloin should be the starter. McGloin has had plenty of opportunities, more than he deserves. he looked good for the first 3 games he played, he has been no where near as good since then. He hit his ceiling, we all know that. Yet he’s still sharing snaps
Bolden started 6 games as a true freshman. He did what he was asked to do against YSU, he did what we expected he would at Alabama. He was good against Temple and Kent State, he never had a chance against Iowa, and he stunk against Illinois. He looked brilliant against Minn and got hurt. Since then he has had to battle with a guy who looked good against NW and Michigan, stunk against MSU and OSU, was mediocre at best against Indiana had better numbers than he actually played against ISU, and was horrifying against Florida and Bama this past week.
If all things were equal, why didnt Bolden get a chance to stink for half the snaps against Florida or OSU or Indiana or Northwestern even?
I dont care who the starter is, I just want to win. But why does Matt McGloin keep getting opportunites to prove himself time and time again while Bolden gets to keep splitting time and looking over his shoulder. He has clearly outplayed McGloin to this point (whether by talent or by default), so from here on out shouldnt he get all the snaps no questions asked like McGloin did last year?
fify
“McGloin played the game 32 minutes of his life”
He wasn’t an improvement at all until the last drive of the first half. Not even a little bit.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Opposing teams have video on McGloin now
Like I said in a thread yesterday…he has weaknesses that he isn’t physically able to improve. Teams didn’t know about those weaknesses until arguably halftime of the OSU game last year. Now there are several games worth of video showing exactly what needs to be done to exploit those weaknesses. Division 1 D Coordinators are generally not dumb (GERG excepted).
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Is GERG at ND now?
Sure seemed like GERG defense on that last drive.
by kijana's acl on Sep 14, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
GERG is everywhere
and in the hearts of all true believers
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Sep 14, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thats a good point
not until the two minute drill at the end of the half was McGloin any better. And to my point, even then he got to finish the game out while Bolden had to watch.
Truth
" When you cross that Blue Line, you are mine...Across the Blue Line, it's all football. " " And what you need to do in your life is paint Blue Lines everywhere. " - Joe Paterno 2009
by BlueWhiteLife on Sep 14, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Can’t believe you had the energy to write this last night after the previous few days’ talk, but another fair and well-written piece.
This is spot on
I am firmly in the camp of Bolden, however too often the comparison gets made based on things that arent comparable or are hypothetical. Too often we say “well McGloin had better numbers in this game” and the argument is that the defenses in those games stunk on ice. Too often we saw “Bolden has had balls dropped” and ignore than so has McGloin. Too often we will mention McGloin’s penchant for interceptions and ignore that he actually has more TDs than INts in his career. Too often we mention Bolden’s performance against Illinois as reason he is inaccurate, and ignore that he actually completed 60% of his passes last year, as a true freshman, and that includes the Illinois fiasco and the Alabama game.
Both QBs have their strengths and their weaknesses. The only reason I am in Bolden’s camp is I compare how they did against teams they have now both played against. Bolden has superior numbers in those games.
Alabama, Indiana State and Minnesota last year. Those three games are the ones where Bolden and McGloin each played a half (ish). Bolden is 28/54 for 301, 1 TD 1 INT. McGloin is 13/31 for 153 yards, 2TD 1 INT.
My submission is that it doesnt matter if WE are fair to either player. We are fans, we pick sides, we make arguments to support our side and get people to hop on board with our opinion, its human nature. Ultimately what really matters if the coaches are fair to the players, if they give each player a fair shake at getting the job.
I think the coaching staff has been more than fair to Matt McGloin. I dont know that you can argue the same when it comes to Rob Bolden.
by swiggy04 on Sep 14, 2011 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Thank you
I also have gone over to favor Bolden and was encouraged by his play in the Alabama game but can’t believe some of the just plain vitriolic comments about Matt McGloin. He deserves much better. Thanks.
An army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horses**t. --Patton
I've never understood how so many people could have seen all the big time downfield throws Mac made
like the one referenced in the OP, and say he doesn’t have D1 talent. There was no huge wind up on that throw, and it was placed perfectly. He had multiple completed passes that travelled over 50 yards in the air. Plenty of D1 QBs can’t do that. His arm strength isn’t elite, but it’s above average.
Bolden throws a better 10-15 yard out, McGloin throws a better (more consistent) deep ball. Both make bad decisions and lock onto WRs at times. IMO the deep ball is more important than the 15 yard out, and that’s why I’ve been for McGloin – UNTIL I saw Bolden take command of the team AND use his legs to make plays multiple times in his final drive vs. Alabama. If he can do that consistently without getting killed, he has a definite advantage over McGloin and should absolutely be the starter.
That's what has actually impressed me about Bolden this year the most.
Those of us who follow recruiting were sold on Bolden being an athletic, dual threat type. He didn’t play in a passing offense in high school and often used his legs to make plays. Likewise, we were told that Jones was reminiscent to a Rothelisberger-type that moves around well in and out of the pocket but did not have the kind of speed for designed running plays.
Last year, Bolden was miserable on the run and much more composed in the pocket than he had any right to be – a dramatic difference from the information we had of him as a high school QB. This year, he’s much more decisive on the run. If he sees an opening, he takes it. I wish he’d learn to slide because otherwise he’s going to get his head taken off. But I’m satisfied that if he’s a reasonably accurate passer that makes plays with his legs, then he’s the guy.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It's also the same reason I preferred Clark over Devlin, FWIW.
That plus Clark exuded this leadership quality that Devlin was missing.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 14, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The point of this post, as I see it, is to end the constant bashing of McGloin, much of which is at best tedious and at worst stupid ("McDerp!")
For this reason, I commend it, Mr. Collyer.
I have nothing sarcastic or humorous whatsoever to say about the Temple Owls.
Beat Temple.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 14, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
#11 has proven to be (to me at least) a punk with his comments
and a below average (nay, downright awful) QB in games against good competition (O State, Florida, Alabama).
I reserve the right as a fan, to wish they would play #1 more.
Sorry.
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
by hbeach08 on Sep 14, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If he was your QB,
what would you have done? Would you have said anything to him about his douchiness?
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
hard to say
and I should have followed up and said….my comment was less a response to Adam’s post, but to the general negative name calling stuff being thrown around.
cockiness and douchiness usually works itself out…it is backed up or not. After a performance or two like this, I prolly woulda just shook my head and said “who the F**k do you think you are?”
i’m not in that locker room, I have no idea who’s on who’s side
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
This is my feelings exactly.
I will refrain from calling him nicknames, and he loves Penn State. That’s what I’m giving right now.
some of his comments—even if in jest—are so ill-advised they’re almost laughable. HBeach, maybe you can expand on this, but are the players taught/coached on how to talk to the media? I thought they were, and some of the stuff he’s said (even if taken out of context) make him seem like, in your words, a punk.
Fire Dan Snyder
everyone is absolutely coached/advised whatever how to appropriately act around media and fans
I’m willing to bet the preseaqson seminars have expanded to include how to use (and not use) social media
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Talk about a Sysyphean task
I can’t imagine the difficulty of ‘polishing’ the media/social interaction skills of 18 yr old gifted athletes.
Alea iacta est...
One thing they missed.
Is to tell them not to tweet DURING class. That just irritates me to no end!!
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
I'm sorry, Paige
but if twitter or facebook or university-wide wifi existed when I was there, i would’ve been on during a lot of classes too.
Fire Dan Snyder
I know,
I catch my students doing it all the time! Still irks me!
They should be hanging on my every word.
"This is BSD, the crazy stirs itself," dwf5095
Follow @Paige2PSU
by Paige2PSU on Sep 14, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
with you
he said this before the Alabama game:
"Obviously, when I’m in there, I think there’s more of a comfort feeling [in the huddle]. Guys, I guess, are behind me. Call it whatever you want to call it. We just have a better vibe and we move the ball a lot better."
Itd be interesting to see if he still feels this is the case.
Egregious use of "obviously"
and employment of comparative terms that are meant to refer to Bolden (“better”). That’s arrogant and not the proper team-first answer to give to the media. If you want to be confident and project that confidence, talk about the things you can do. Don’t compare yourself to your teammates.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
hbeach08 - want your insight.
What are your thoughts on basically the entire O staff being upstairs in the box, seems like too many chefs in the kitchen.
I think if Jay wants to really step up, he needs to be on the sidelines calling plays and talking with the troops live.
Hire Mike Pettine Jr!!!!!!!!
I have been appalled ever since they designated two o-coordinators (run/pass)
I think it sets such a bad precedent (no ONE leader), and it hinders offensive game management (and the three timeouts this weekend was NOT even close to the first example of this, it was just more glaring). I’m numb to the fact that they are both in booth, they could both be in the parking lot for all I care…..THERE SHOULDN"’T BE TWO OF THEM.
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
Good insight...I agree
I think Jay is a smart guy and understands the game, wish I could see the O implode and have him just show up on the sidelines are go Ape.
That would get some ears/eyes open, needs to be a better leader
Hire Mike Pettine Jr!!!!!!!!
I always think of Jay more as a football-saavy media member than a coach
He gets to call plays and maybe even does a good job (we really can’t judge/assign credit since we have no idea who is doing what). But he has never seemed like an authoritative figure or leader of the team.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

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