Success With Hyperlinking Has Some Reading To Do
This is a week late, but it needs to be mentioned. Last week was the three year anniversary of Auburn and Mississippi State's 3-2 game, better known as "Baby I'm Burnin'." A hearty thank you to both institutions for taking Iowa and Penn State off the hook for 6-4. Now watch this and cackle maniacally.
Have an hour or so? Read this. Taylor Branch's article in The Atlantic is probably the most comprehensive takedown of college athletics I've ever seen. I don't necessarily agree on a lot of points, but you can't say that Branch hasn't done his homework.
Miami update. It seems like the NCAA is going after the assistant coaches that were implicated in the Yahoo! piece that have since left for other programs. Specifically, Louisville's Clint Hurtt and Alabama's Joe Pannunzio are the ones under scrutiny. Say what you will about the NCAA, but the trend recently seems to be that they're pursuing the specific rule breakers rather than just punishing the institution that may or may not have known what was going on. In my opinion, that is a positive development.
Rut roh! Ohio State DE Nathan Williams is going to miss at least the Miami game this weekend after undergoing minor knee surgery. Williams isn't expected to miss a ton of time, but you have to hold your breath a little bit every time a surgeon has to cut a player up.
I still think "superconference" is a stupid term. The Good Doctor takes a look at conference realignment and puts it in historical perspective.
Speaking of realignment. The Oklahoma Board of Regents is meeting on Monday, and the Sooners' conference affiliation is definitely on the agenda.
BEAT TEMPLE.
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Agree with Dr. Saturday in the sense that we've been headed in this direction for some time
and I don’t think it’s totally a bad thing, but I’ll miss programs coming out of nowhere and having success. ’84 BYU, Boise State for the last decade-ish, ’04 Utah…those things will never happen again if this happens.
What I wonder is this: what happens if a league like the MAC or Sun Belt or WAC sues their big brother conference for acting like a monopoly in television contracting like Oklahoma did to the NCAA in ‘84? I know the situations aren’t exactly the same, and I’m not familiar enough with antitrust law to know if they would have anything resembling a case, but I do wonder.
"I play for Penn State, we don't celebrate after TDs." - Penn State's Derek Moye, on being asked to act like he's celebrating a TD during a BTN shoot.
I don't think it's close.
The NCAA actually limited the number of appearances a team could make on TV by rule back then. The NCAA was trying to sanction the CFA members for negotiating their own TV contracts because the terms violated the deal the NCAA was trying to negotiate for its member schools (i.e. the contract the NCAA was working on limited total appearances). The MAC, Sun Belt etc are not restricted from going to ABC, Fox Sports, or whoever and negotiating a deal to broadcast all their games every week. As long as they have the freedom to do that and the only hindrance is their marketability, I don’t see how there is an antitrust problem.
BSD Wentworth
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Chariman, Hiring Committee*
*Accepting Applications
by PSUinBOSSton on Sep 16, 2011 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't the same be said of the USFL's case against the NFL?
or of the U.S.’s case against Standard Oil, Microsoft, Kodak, or AT&T?
I’m not a lawyer, and I question the ethics of antitrust laws in general, but it would appear that ‘the only hindrance is their marketability’ isn’t a hindrance to an antitrust suit at all.
"I play for Penn State, we don't celebrate after TDs." - Penn State's Derek Moye, on being asked to act like he's celebrating a TD during a BTN shoot.
Don't try to make sense of anti-trust law
Anti-trust specialists don’t really understand it. Any time that the law relies upon a “rule of reason” and attorneys are involved, clarity rarely results.
by kijana's acl on Sep 16, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree that the NCAA going after specific individuals...
can be a good thing. Unless they ignore situations like at Tenn. and O$U where the AD and entire compliance departments support a culture of greed and selective ignorance. I still say that things won’t really change until schools get hit hard in the ol’ wallet and that means taking away more bowl games so the schools are compelled to monitor effectively. If a compliance department acted more like an internal affairs division and less like advocates for the athletes, there would be some teeth to the rules. Yes, these are 18-19 year old “kids”, but you know what… once upon a time I was a cop with a bunch of other 22 year olds just out of college and we knew what happened if you broke the rules. You were suspended or, most likely, terminiated ASAP.
There… that’s my hard-ass rant for the day. The sudden appearance of ice on my deck in Pittsburgh has me bitchy.
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
I popped in the comments literally just to write this...
Unless they ignore situations like at Tenn. and O$U where the AD and entire compliance departments support a culture of greed and selective ignorance. I still say that things won’t really change until schools get hit hard in the ol’ wallet and that means taking away more bowl games so the schools are compelled to monitor effectively. If a compliance department acted more like an internal affairs division and less like advocates for the athletes, there would be some teeth to the rules.
…basically word for word. Thanks for only making me copy and paste.
The rebel, I make more noise than heavy metal . . .
by Adam Collyer on Sep 16, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I should have thrown in the O$U "President" as well.
I just don't want to die without a few scars. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6
The NCAA's biggest problem is that it depends on the consent of the governed
and OSU and Tennessee are more representative of the important (read: wealthy) NCAA schools than PSU and Stanford.
In real terms, the NCAA has very limited power because they’re too much at the mercy of the big-money schools they purportedly police.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
BEAT TEMPLE
Isn’t this all that really matters right now in the world of college football
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Sep 16, 2011 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
"Pannunzio, Noonan, you're up!!"
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
by hbeach08 on Sep 16, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
One of my favorite movies.
Whenever I see it “I feel like a hundred dollars”.
Thanks for linking to that Atlantic article
Anyone with a strong opinion about “student-athletes” should read it for the history if nothing else.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I've got it ready for the evening commute
Can’t wait to sink my teeth in it, and get at you about it.
my opinions about the issue of paying student-athletes, etc have been evolving a lot lately
so this came at a good time. I’d begun to sort-of accept the various quirks of college athletics for what they are, but i think this helps me realize that accepting the BCS is different from complacent about the fact that 22% of D-1 college basketball players from 2008-09 had their scholarship from the previous year revoked.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I can't wait to hear about...
how High School players should be paid for generating all kinda of revenues for football in states like Texas, or hockey in Minnesota. I mean those kinds (with the exception of private school kids) don’t even get a scholarship of any value. And yet their athletic governing bodies maintain the rights to their “big nasty” TV deals.
I could only read about half of it because it got tiresome. Nowhere is it mentioned that those “huge massive payouts” for the most part go to support the other participants in the rest of the NCAA’s dozens of other sports. I believe there is one line whilst bellyaching about how football or basketball players are living in “poverty” (btw, a term that has lost all meaning as a lifestyle classification and merely refers to income level and only certain types of income at that) and should be paid. He explicitly states that paying all the athletes is not what he demands, just the revenue sport athletes. Because, the lacrosse player isn’t bound by the same restrictions on working a side job or accepting gifts etc. and they’re just drowning in money I’m sure. Just like the rest of the student body. Oh wait what?
I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD
Also; Always carry a bottle opener and the beer will provide itself.
football/basketball players at D1 schools
are no more or less poverty-stricken than any other kid in college, even with a job. especially when you consider i didnt get free clothes, meals, tuition, books and housing. Also I had to go to class.
these players arent taking free tattoos or $500 handshakes because they are poor. They are getting free tattoos cause they are free. They are taking $500 handshakes cause its a $500 handshake.
Why aren't those Little League World Series kids being justly compensated for their talents?!?
by Chris Grovich on Sep 16, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
the most ridiculous thing is the insane salaries the little league coaches take
while allowing their players to live in poverty.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
I think it's interesting that the author went into the article thinking that college athletes
shouldn’t be paid. But as he analyzed the facts and looked at the history, he realized how absurd it is to demand amateurism from “student-athletes”. If you’re mind is already made up, reading more facts would influence you one way or another, so I am sure that this fact and history laden article would become tiresome. But if your an impartial observer, the facts begin to demonstrate how untenable the current situation is, even if we wish the non-existent dream of amateur college sports had ever existed, or that it exists no among major colleges.
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
Actually,
my preference would be that all athletes get a little cash as part of their scholarship for the things Joe talks about. Taking a girl out and picking up the tab for pizza and a couple sodas (as naive as that particular scenario is, it has some truth and charm) and whatnot.
This would do nothing to dent the scandals that are happening because as it is correctly stated above by swiggy:
They are taking $500 handshakes cause its a $500 handshake.
The history and facts about how it evolved were interesting. The tiresome part was the predictability of the narration around the facts themselves:
But what Vaccaro said in 2001 was true then, and it’s true now: corporations offer money so they can profit from the glory of college athletes, and the universities grab it. In 2010, despite the faltering economy, a single college athletic league, the football-crazed Southeastern Conference (SEC), became the first to crack the billion-dollar barrier in athletic receipts. The Big Ten pursued closely at $905 million. That money comes from a combination of ticket sales, concession sales, merchandise, licensing fees, and other sources—but the great bulk of it comes from television contracts.
As if I am to believe there is something inherently wrong with this arrangement. There is nothing INHERENTLY wrong with this setup provided the goals of the institution are not compromised; molding young people into productive members of society.
Then there is the subsequent paragraphs about the litany of scandals that have occurred in the past decade. Positioned is such a manner as to suggest causation. As if there were no way to be a big time athletic program while remaining true to the institutional goals. Clearly by being a Penn State fan, you know this to not be true.
Not to mention the also tired comparison to slavery, even though he hedges against its use. That’s like leading a sentence with “with all due respect”.
"Whoremasters"
NCAA v. Regents left the NCAA devoid of television football revenue and almost wholly dependent on March Madness basketball. It is rich but insecure. Last year, CBS Sports and Turner Broadcasting paid $771 million to the NCAA for television rights to the 2011 men’s basketball tournament alone. That’s three-quarters of a billion dollars built on the backs of amateurs—on unpaid labor. The whole edifice depends on the players’ willingness to perform what is effectively volunteer work.
emphasis mine.
The author may have began his adventure with an open mind specifically regarding the payment of student athletes, that is only a specific case in relation to his larger worldview. Specifically it seems the author is intentionally neglecting the fact that the athletes do get compensation, just not outright monetary compensation in the form of a check.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but I am tired of hearing that the ideal of the “student-athlete” is a joke. Sure there are things that could make the system more agreeable, but the basic premise that it is all a sham (or even mostly a sham) is simply false.
I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD
Also; Always carry a bottle opener and the beer will provide itself.
by bconway6 on Sep 16, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i liked your response
and i think an ideal world, i’d like to see something similar to what you (and Joe) recommend, perhaps in addition to any revenue coming from sponsors, etc, a al the olympics.
The ideal of the student-athlete is noble and good. But in practice, as I’m sure you know, the idea of a student-athelete for some big percentage of the guys playing major college football and hoops is, as Charles Barkley will tell you, a joke.
From the article:
Today, much of the NCAA’s moral authority—indeed much of the justification for its existence—is vested in its claim to protect what it calls the "student-athlete." The term is meant to conjure the nobility of amateurism, and the precedence of scholarship over athletic endeavor. But the origins of the "student-athlete" lie not in a disinterested ideal but in a sophistic formulation designed, as the sports economist Andrew Zimbalist has written, to help the NCAA in its "fight against workmen’s compensation insurance claims for injured football players."
"We crafted the term student-athlete," Walter Byers himself wrote, "and soon it was embedded in all NCAA rules and interpretations." The term came into play in the 1950s, when the widow of Ray Dennison, who had died from a head injury received while playing football in Colorado for the Fort Lewis A&M Aggies, filed for workmen’s-compensation death benefits. Did his football scholarship make the fatal collision a "work-related" accident? Was he a school employee, like his peers who worked part-time as teaching assistants and bookstore cashiers? Or was he a fluke victim of extracurricular pursuits? Given the hundreds of incapacitating injuries to college athletes each year, the answers to these questions had enormous consequences. The Colorado Supreme Court ultimately agreed with the school’s contention that he was not eligible for benefits, since the college was "not in the football business."
I wouldn't trust old rooster me neither.
by spakajewia on Sep 16, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't let cynicism win.
For as corny and self-serving as the whole “Thousands of athletes in the NCAA go pro in something other than sports” campaign was, it is not false.
…in practice, as I’m sure you know, the idea of a student-athelete for some big percentage of the guys playing major college football and hoops is, as Charles Barkley will tell you, a joke.
on a gut-level I think you’re statement about a “big” percentage of guys is not accurate. Granted if the statement was “big percentage of the guys being interviewed or talked about on ESPN for playing major college football and hoops is, as Charles Barkley will tell you, a joke” I think you’d probably be right.
I disagree with the premise of the NCAA trying to protect the “student-athlete” in a physical sense. It appears that the role of the NCAA is more to create a level playing field for its member institutions than it is dedicated to any type of athlete well being. This is why amateurism became a primary tenant. Back in the day, there were all kind of accusations about schools getting ringers to play for their teams or using otherwise “ineligible students”.
Amateurism made it against the rules for say OSU to hire an NFL player to suit up on Saturdays (jokes welcome), even if he happened to take an online course, or some other circumstance (also applicable rules about number of years of eligibility, etc). It merely aided the desire of the NCAA (and its member institutions) to help create a level playing field. This is also the reasoning behind the various prohibitions on athletes to having a job.
In regard to the account of Ray Dennison; I believe the NCAA carries some sort of insurance against these types of events in current times. I know my youth hockey association did, so I am sure something is arranged for the NCAA.
I’m sorry, but blanket statements are proven false 99% of the time, and if you make a blanket statement about college football, there’s a good chance that one exception will be Joe Paterno. - AdamShell @ BSD
Also; Always carry a bottle opener and the beer will provide itself.
by bconway6 on Sep 16, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My issues...
Bconway6,
You bring up some fine points, and one of the article’s flaws — though, flawed as it is, that’s some splendid work — is that it broad-brushes all of college athletics, implicitly subscribing to the “it happens everywhere” defense (though here it would be an accusation).
I do think what you’re saying about how money-making sports supports other arguably “worthy” causes is immaterial, though. Even if I agree with the sentiment, it doesn’t change the economic arrangement and it doesn’t answer the question of why a small percentage of athletes should use their labors to fund such things.
My issues with the article, though, are with two basic assumptions that, given its depth elsewhere, I’m surprised were left unaddressed. The first is the dismissal of the “free education” as an abstracted sentiment, one that prompts him to trot the slavery metaphor (labor unpaid now for untold — but unseen — riches later) at the end. First, I agree that “education” is an abstraction, no less of one than “heaven” for the slave. But it’s just as lazy to stop there for the author as it is for those who would say “free education” as if it were the trump card in the argument. There is, of course, a price tag on that education and that’s quantifiable. There are also ample statistics on what said education does to one’s earning power later in life (though this is also in dispute, particularly in regards to those who achieve that education with a lower socioeconomic background than their peers’). My point here is not that either side is “correct,” but that we shouldn’t talk about the value of that education without some attempt to quantify the value.
My other issue is the flipside of this. And this is where I think the article is ultimately as sloppy as it is insightful elsewhere. This all hinges on the assumption that “90 percent” of the profit is generated through black athletes who grew up in “poverty.”
Bconway6, you point out the flaws in the poverty threshhold itself, but at least it’s a quantifiable figure even if flawed. My problem is, why do we inherently believe that “90 percent” figure? Because Dale Brown said so? Because a lot of players “look the part” with corn rows and tattoos? I mean, really, it ain’t 1985. Those markers of class are far from absolute, if they ever were.
I don’t even contend that the assumption is wrong. I just think we shouldn’t treat it as an assumption, when the reality might surprise some people — as did the recent study that showed players from “poor” backgrounds were UNDERrepresented in the NBA.
If the author’s going to attack a “free education” as an abstract sentiment, he shouldn’t rely so heavy on an equally abstracted assumption. Quantify both. How many profit-generating college athletes can fairly be described as “impoverished”? If they don’t get a pro contract, what does that “free education” ultimately do to their economic standing 5 years later? And, finally, can we quantify if there are marked differences between institutions? Might we find that a scholarship at school A, which makes kids go to class and study, ends up being of significant value as opposed to school B (cough, Ole Miss, cough) that ultimately sees these kids as unpaid labor?
All of that might not matter one iota in terms of the legality of the issue, but it might help clear away some myths that unduly sway sentiment one way or another.
by tuscaloosalion on Sep 17, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, so our 6-4 game
with Iowa was just in commemoration of the first collegiate football game…and we graciously accepted the lower score to show our preference to playing the part of Princeton rather than Rutgers!
(The actual description of that first game is mind boggling, i.e. 25 players for each team ont the field at once) Link
Alea iacta est...

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