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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Why I think we are, where we are.


Everyone has written this Fanpost (except me). I get it. So feel free to disregard it. I originally intended to bury it in the Fanposts, but I couldn't get the format to work out, so here it goes. It's also too long. It's based upon my thoughts over the past few months, and I wrote it now because the recent explanations of how the Board of Trustee's worked led me to believe that I could finally put something together that was based upon knowledge and facts, rather than "if this, then what" speculation. Some speculation is impossible to avoid, but I tried to frame it in the context of what has been revealed to date.

Star-divide

As this gets further and further out from zero hour, some of the information that has come forward has been helpful (the article about the BOTs) some wildly hyped, and not terribly telling (the preliminary hearing) but one thing that I have noticed, is that while old information gets rehashed nearly daily, not much new has come out.

The lack of new information is good and bad, I think it means that it is unlikely that we'll ever hear a Joe Paterno side of the story that makes us feel better. I also think that the nonsensical "Second Mile as brothel story", which was wholly invented by Mark Madden in Pittsburgh, is also very unlikely to have any legs. I think we probably know about 85 to 90 percent of what we’re ever going to know.

Aside from Jerry Sandusky being a walking episode of SVU, what do you think caused the problem?

After reading the "standing orders" of the Board of Trustees (hereinafter BOT) and how they related to the communication and dissemination between the University Administration and the BOT, I'm going to go with a catastrophic failure of Orwellian Bureaucracy.

We don’t know whether or not Joe Paterno followed up. But based on a review of the standing orders we know that if he had, he would have met with substantial resistance within the Administration, and a flat stone wall had he gone to the BOT. Earlier I was quick to blame Curley, or even Schultz, but the clear (and almost sole authority) on an issue of this magnitude rests in Spanier’s office. That’s not my opinion, that’s University policy, as set forth by the BOT in their own "standing orders".

The system worked as well as it was designed to, but appears to have been failed by increasingly watered down accounts of Mike McQueary’s report. The system is supposed to work like a circuit, moving the information along the line to the President , it did. However, it’s obvious that too much of McQuerary’s original report leaked in the transmission (I’m sure there is an engineering term for it).

Moreover, when everybody follows a policy, and the wrong result is reached, I think you have to look at the policy. I think that applying this policy to the Sandusky Scandal is like trying to retrofit a Mack truck for use in space travel. It’s clear that nobody ever considered this eventuality, and why would you? By definition, the vast majority of the University Community is of legal age. I do not think that it is fair to have assumed that there would be a policy in place to deal with something like this, especially how it initially presented.

So what about Joe Paterno he absolutely should have been fired/retained, right?

Okay, let’s think about what we know, in the context of the BOT "standing orders".

A] As to Joe Paterno’s role in the circuit. He performed it, and moreover, none of the leakage that caused the overall failure can be attributed to Paterno. McQueary admits that he gave Paterno a watered down version of events. Paterno had a meeting with Curley within 24 hours of the report, and finally, he put McQueary in a room with Schultz and Curley. What Paterno was told is a "red herring", in that McQueary’s reports to Schultz and Curley (who are then supposed to subsequently report to Spanier) is the operative report. A huge part of this controversy stems from McQueary’s decision to talk with some of his "mentors" before taking a final course of action. I think that McQueary approached Paterno at least as much as a mentor, and to be told what to do next. Paterno acted in that way, and put McQueary in a position to make the report directly to the relevant superiors. However, McQueary would have been just as right to go to Curley directly.

In short, in the context of a set of rules that were clearly not designed to handle this type of situation, Joe Paterno did exactly what he was supposed to do. But here is the controversy…

B ] The public perception that Joe Paterno was a essentially a fail safe switch that was entitled/designed and indeed obligated to override all other actors if there was a problem;

  • Initially, this is clearly not the case. There is no "unless Joe Paterno says so" exception that I am aware of. Joe Paterno’s position is in the context of the University structure. Many have argued, "that’s bull-shit, Joe Paterno hired his boss". Yes he did, but that’s not relevant, because Curley’s place in the organizational structure remains above Paterno, and it is Curley, not Paterno, that is responsible to make the report to Spanier. Further, I would argue that Paterno "hired his boss" for exactly this type of situation. Joe Paterno (as is Mike McQueary) is a football coach, not a University Administrator, and this matter would have been properly handled by University Administration under the best of circumstances.
  • I think that there is a fundamental misunderstanding in the difference between the Athletic Director and the Football Coach. I think it’s based on two things, one, once upon a time it was not uncommon for the Football Coach to have a dual role (it is still common at the High School level) and two, Joe Paterno was the Athletic Director at Penn State (although that was more than 30 years ago). The premise of the Athletic Director being a University Administrator is so that there is a clear demarcation that the athletic department is beholden to the University President, rather than being an autonomous organization. As a result, I think there is a relevant connection to the NCAA’s investigation in to "lack of institutional control". I believe that had Joe Paterno attempted to unilaterally discipline Sandusky, it would have actually flown in the face of his superiors, lending credence to the theory that football team does whatever it wants, rather that it being beholden to University Policy. Despite the fact that their policy ultimately failed.
  • I believe that it’s unfair to demand that somebody take an action so wildly out of the chain of command. Had he, it would have been clear grounds for termination. Additionally, how was he supposed to know to exercise this power? There is no obligation for superiors to report down the chain of command. This means that Joe Paterno would never have expected to receive reports from anybody about this situation, because nobody was obligated to give them to him. Given the organizational structure, "I didn’t hear anything after that" is exactly what you’d expect.

Of course, all that being said, on November 8th the house was on fire and we were arguing over which buckets of water to throw on it. Right, wrong or indifferent is nuts to think that Paterno could have finished off the season as head coach, and that’s notwithstanding the fact that he has lung cancer. I don’t think that’s fair, but "fair" isn’t the sole arbiter of what needs to happen. Also, I think it’s pre-mature to think that the University is using him as a scape-goat, they haven’t accused him of any wrong doing. Their failure as it relates to Joe Paterno is a failure to come forward and debunk that Joe Paterno as "fail-safe" reporter theory. But the University's investigation remains pending, and we’ll see how it ends. The media is an external force in this situation that Penn State can’t control, and it is acting in ways that are forcing Penn State to make decisions it wishes it didn’t have to. That sucks, but it’s a recognition of reality that we all have to live with.

But the BOT, Rodney Erickson and especially Dave Joyner (collectively "those guys") are all ass-holes right?

I can’t go there yet. It’s impossible for me to hate the "I know what I would have done" backlash as it relates to what Joe Paterno did and didn’t do in 2002, yet be dead certain what I would have done as it relates to firing him in 2011. That’s a logical inconsistency that doesn’t fly with me, but that doesn’t mean I’m on board with what they did.

I think that those guys were in a tough spot and had to deal with two separate and distinct contingencies. The rabble from without, and the rabble from within. Concessions to either contingency make the other contingency enraged, so in short, it’s a perfect shit storm of "no possible way to win".

If you triage the situation in November 2011, step one is take this from a certified 11 out of 10 on the media fire-storm scale and try to get it at least back on the charts. Is it possible that a more public disavowment of Curley and Schultz (as opposed to letting them step down in near silence on a Sunday night) might have moved the meter a little more? Possibly. Perhaps, an explanation of the "standing orders" and Spanier’s responsibility thereto might have helped as well. But to what end? Do you essentially admit fault to save an 85 year old football coach who, at best, has four more games left? And it probably doesn’t work anyway? You may not like the decision, but you’ve got to at least see the logic.

Complaining about the mechanics of how Paterno was fired is similar to complaining about the wrapping paper on a shit sandwich. Yeah, that sucked too, but it’s hardly the point.

So now what, do you have any ideas?

A few. Child Sexual Assault is pretty unforeseeable on a University Campus, but sexual assault is not only foreseeable, it’s quite common. It happens everywhere, it’s under reported everywhere, and it’s misunderstood everywhere. It’s a pretty touchy subject, loaded with "he said, she said" and vast expanses of grey area. So my initial suggestions are two fold;

  • First, a new department of University Policing and security should be created. The head of this department reports directly to the University President, and should be required to issue quarterly reports, directly the BOT as it relates to any and all criminal activity on campus.
  • Second, within that department is what I’m going to call Penn State SVU. Every University employee, down to the friggin’ residence hall R.A.’s should be required to report any incident of sexual assault or mistreatment that comes to their attention to PSU-SVU within 12 hours.

Second, I think that if by the Blue/White game nothing has come out to further implicate Joe Paterno in this, he should be reinstated has Head Coach effective the date of his firing, with his resignation being accepted as of January 2, 2012. It should be accompanied by a commendation for meritorious service for his 60 years at the school, and a manner of recognition that failures at the University level contributed to a scandal that harmed him a great deal.

Some final thoughts?

9/11 wasn’t an inside job, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and the Sandusky Scandal was caused by a bureaucratic SNAFU that was brought on by a long chain of mistakes and goofy facts that are unique to Penn State but that I don’t think were caused by evil intent. In all three instances, you’re confronted with a bad event, and a desire to make it more than a lone nut, or poorly constructed University standard operating procedures.

There is a show on the History Channel called "Engineering Disasters", and it explained how something like sports arena collapsing under the weight of snow could be allowed to occur. In most of the instances, you have a mistake, coupled with opportunities to correct the mistake that get missed, coupled with bad luck. So it goes with this disaster.

I think the criminal cases will more than likely be resolved with an unsatisfying whimper, most likely a plea to a reduced charge, something nominal. What will dictate this is a final determination of what the cause of the "loss of signal" between McQueary and Spanier was.

I think Schultz’s story will be "I am the cops" and "I investigated, and didn’t find anything to substantiate the claim". Ironically (possibly unfortunately) Sandusky backs this up, he said Schultz called him and he gave him the name of the kid. To date, the 2002 incident lacks a complaining witness, if there wasn’t one then, what do you do? Ban him from bringing kids to the facilities and give the Second Mile a heads up is at least a start. And an opportunity that the Second Mile pretty clearly fumbled.

I can’t speak to the failures at the Second Mile, except to say, they seem to be exponentially greater than ours. Penn State was in no position to control access to kids, only to it’s facilities, which it did (no subsequent witness or victim has alleged that Sandusky hurt them on Campus after 2002, which makes sense given that Sandusky was operating on a pretty high level).

At the end of it all, I think it’s much easier to take responsibility for something when you know it’s your responsibility. Penn State is guilty of fostering an environment of no responsibility, and that’s a pretty bad thing.

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This was the word I was looking for.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Very well written

and reasonable. Thanks for the perspective jesse.

by James on Jan 10, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions  

I still hate the media !

They poured fuel on the fire and continue to fan it – to this very day.

by TonyLion on Jan 11, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Pennlive

posted a lengthy article about JS being spotted in the president’s box at the Illinois game for JoePa’s record breaking 409th. victory.

Later they posted a one sentence retraction, whoops, it was Joyner.

Media Scum !

by TonyLion on Jan 12, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

You're kidding me, right?

I remembered seeing that and being shocked that it wasn’t bigger news. I actually saw it reported as “Joyner stood/sat right next to Sandusky in the box at the Illinois game.” So am I to understand that isn’t true?

See… this is why I don’t read the newspaper. Because it’s garbage.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 12, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I would also respectfully suggest...

that they institute a program that trains university employees on how to deal with these issues (e.g. if you see somebody in the shower with a boy, call 911). It’s the old "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure).

Joseph V. Paterno has left an impression on my soul that wil never, EVER go away.

by GoodOleDays on Jan 10, 2012 4:32 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

The goal of my suggestions above was to come with something less finite.

The Sandusky situation is an outlier. With no preventative measures, it’s unlikely to happen again. So the goal is to come up with something that might actually do some good, rather than addressing this one instance.

Sexual assault on campus is a huge problem, and not just at Penn State, but everywhere. For too long, rather than take preventative measures, and investigate claims, a culture of “that doesn’t happen here” takes effect. I think it needs to be taken beyond this one simple instance, and become more of a culture of trying to make sure your sexual partner is actually willing before having sex with them.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I assure you every man, woman, and pet on campus

now know what to do in this type of situation. The lesson has been told for the past 2 months.

by The Booster on Jan 10, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

No, no they don't

I have yet to see anything to change my college’s policy, which is report up, and let them handle it.

And I am not really sure who I would report to, sadly.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 10, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well as we see from many of M1EK's arguments and media for that matter

Apparently it doesn’t matter what is written. I can envision people now over reporting and the pendulum swinging heavily to just tell everybody.

by The Booster on Jan 10, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

In my head I am famous

Does that count?

Or should whenever a student comes to me with a problem, that might be serious, I should just go Walker Texas Ranger all over some candy ass’s?

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 10, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what the righteous have been saying

all through this… What they’re forgetting is we live in a very offended society nowadays that will sue for anything. The righteous will quickly become the poor and homeless.

by The Booster on Jan 11, 2012 4:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Whatever happened

To the good old days when we just had regular vigilatism?

by PSUPing on Jan 11, 2012 6:14 AM EST up reply actions  

You make some very great points.

I think the most valuable part of this piece is your conclusion:

At the end of it all, I think it’s much easier to take responsibility for something when you know it’s your responsibility. Penn State is guilty of fostering an environment of no responsibility, and that’s a pretty bad thing.

Regardless of your opinions on this matter, I think the most valuable goal from this incident should be to make sure it never happens again. Placing responsibility should be the undeniable outcome in an effort to prevent something like this from ever happening again.

It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.

by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 10, 2012 4:34 PM EST reply actions  

Jerry Sandusky's stature in the community

His work with children in Centre County and beyond and his status as an emeritus professor make this fact pattern fairly specific to Penn State. However, if you point is that this type of power structure in University Administration is not unique to Penn State, then you are correct. It’s just that the disaster that befalls some other school will be based on some other fact pattern, unique to that school.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I'll concede that the exact situation is somewhat unique...

but I think the uncovering of other similar scandals immediately following ours (The Citadel and Syracuse) prove the point that just because the specifics may be different and much more “fun” for the media to cover, there are (very unfortunately) power structures and sterling reputations of certain people in many different organizations that might lead to the very same outcomes. I mean, even just within this incident we have multiple organizations that utterly failed… and for the most part they did not have the reputation of a school, coach, or football program to try to protect. They did have other interests to protect.

And I really don’t think it can be overstated how much a sterling reputation in the community insulates someone from suspicion. Undoubtedly the witnesses that saw Sandusky doing inappropriate things either gave him the benefit of the doubt (especially if he made a pattern of being a bit physical with kids in front of other adults) or were afraid that they would not be believed if they spoke up. Taking out any motivations that may have involved protecting the school, there’s plenty of reasons it took a long time for enough questions to be put together that a pattern of bad behavior emerged enough to overcome that goodwill.

by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 11, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

The gist of both your and jesse.‘s points fit well with the structural sociological take I have been prone to adopt. I’ll promise you that a similar event could take place here at LSU — and likely at a bunch of universities as well — just with “some other fact pattern” as jesse. responded.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 10, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to derail the discussions going on here

but any good psychology books you would recommend? I’m looking for something interesting but not too technical as I have very little background on the subject. Just a novice looking for some interesting reading.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Jan 10, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Try "Are you There God, it's Me, Margaret"

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

it's letsgo

so smartassery should be the default assumption ;)

though don’t get me wrong, I love me some Judy Blume…she taught me a lot back in the day! I’m kinda surprised more of her books haven’t been banned, TBH…though I think Forever has been in many school districts.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a good thing she didn't write about cutting.

Otherwise plenty of 80s children would have discovered it.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Margaret may be from the 70's

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Same difference with Judy Blume.

She influenced at least 3 generations of girls.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

and she still is

she’s quite active on twitter

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

man, we passed Forever around!

it seemed so dirty

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I know!

That is, until I read Godfather when I was 13…whoo boy. Then that got passed around to a few of my nerd friends. You know, the only ones of us who were reading Mario Puzo in 7th grade.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to know the exact page for the better part of a decade.

I still know it’s in the 20’s.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel like it's still probably the most graphic sex scene I've read

in terms of stark language. There’s no glossing around. Quite shocking, really, for when it was written.

But my impressions may be clouded, like most things, by my mindset when I initially read it…thinking back, I probably have read much more provocative things more recently, but it’s not as shocking as an adult.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Hilarious!

Seriously, tho, kudos to all your family for still being family here, amongst our family.

Love all yous guys!

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Psychology is not my area,

but I can recommend The Transformation of Intimacy: Sexuality, Love, and Eroticism in Modern Societies by sociologist Anthony Giddens. It’s a wonderfully accessible book that plays with psychology through the lens of identity construction.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 11, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

"I wasn't performing an investigation..."

Isn’t that close to a direct quote from Schultz’s testimony? Based on what I have read, after JS, I would probably think of him as the “Chief Bad Guy.”

I would love to see Joe reinstated, but I don’t ever see that happening. I agree that given the firestorm, there is no way Joe could have coached the remainder of the season. However, I thought he should have been placed on administrative leave – which would have made it easier to reinstate.

by dontcallmescooter on Jan 10, 2012 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

Strong work here jesse.

You make a strong analysis of this particular case of typical institutional mindlessness.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 10, 2012 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

I agree, BUT...

A commendation or anything more or even less for Paterno and IMMEDIATELY all the media headlines are, “Paterno Honored – Penn State STILL Doesn’t Get It”.

by J Breezy on Jan 11, 2012 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Frankly....

I don’t get what PSU is supposed to get. Maybe I’m just stupid. To me this is not about PSU much at all. Again, I must be stupid.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

I don’t get what we are supposed to “get”. Should we all be wearing hair shirts and rendering hurting ourselves? Are we as alums and fans of the school supposed to not care about football or the other sports anymore? Are we supposed to continually apologize for being Penn Staters?

by spikey on Jan 11, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you for taking the time to put this together and sharing it with us.

I don’t think I would be giving you the respect you deserve if I just threw out any old instant reaction other than a thank you, so I am going to think about quite a good deal tonight. If I have any worthy additions, I will post them at that time.

Leaders Co-Champions

by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 10, 2012 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

Excellent write up.

Excellent. The only thing I can say is that I would have liked the administration to explored a third option (to placate the rabble without or the rabble within), and that is to try reason with both sides.

That which we are, WE ARE...PENN STATE.
Forever.

by Nittany_Ryan on Jan 10, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

This was a great post jesse.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 10, 2012 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

To the extent anybody actually worked their way through this,

I appreciate their patience.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You tackle a tremendous amount of issues surrounding the situation

I found the ones that you chose to focus on to be quite poinant. Volumes could be written on all of the details surrounding this, but I feel like you’ve done quite a good job of limiting the scope to the most important details; particularly as it pertains to learning a lesson and finding ways to effectively move forward.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 10, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He said it better than me.

I actually stopped myself from rewriting my paragraph above addressing it. 20 rewrites into the day, and I didn’t get that part the way I wanted it.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It is certainly the case that BSD...

is the only place I know of that I can come on the internet and have meaningful discussions about anything from philosophy, law, statistics, etc… immediately followed by low brow humor.

Life is scary if you start to think about all of the ways you don’t control your own. It’s why staring up into the sky at night and realizing just how small you are is both fascinating and disturbing. And it is probably a big reason that religion continues to exist even as science has filled in many of the answers about how our world works.

by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 11, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Smile

The sun could have exploded five minutes ago, and you won’t know for another five minutes.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

thats what she said

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Jan 11, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

If she felt lucky...

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Whats this 'foreplay' you speak of?

I mean really, it only takes a few seconds to undress.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

YOU HAVE TO UNDRESS

to have sex?!?!?!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

WOW.

For some reason, probably specific to me, your avatar now makes a whole helluva lot of sense.

by cwarner28 on Jan 10, 2012 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

Question?
(no subsequent witness or victim has alleged that Sandusky hurt them on Campus after 2002, which makes sense given that Sandusky was operating on a pretty high level).

I thought I read at least one report from a post-GJ witness/lawyer (e.g., civil suit only) that he was molested on PSU property after 2002. I hope my memory is flawed; there’s so much information to keep straight, but I thought I should raise the question at least.

Stop blaming Joe -- media mobs!
Nominate - Elect Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell, Jimmy Cefalo to BoT (and vote out all nine alumni incumbents over next three years)

by OlderBudweiser on Jan 10, 2012 7:25 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think so.

There are incidents of abuse after 2002. And there are many reports of Sandusky being on campus after 2002. But I think Jerry took his game to a different pond after the 2002 incident.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

As an afterthought, Curley was taken to task for not taking Sandusky’s access keys away after the 2002 incident; so if nothing more happened on campus why was this point emphasized (at least by the media – unless I’m not remembering this correctly either)?

Stop blaming Joe -- media mobs!
Nominate - Elect Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell, Jimmy Cefalo to BoT (and vote out all nine alumni incumbents over next three years)

by OlderBudweiser on Jan 10, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Emeritus Status cannot be revoked on a whim.

And certainly not on the whim of the Athletic Director. It seems very simple, but that is a function of tenure, and to do anything that would affect it would require the action of either the BOT, or at least the Faculty Senate.

I mean in retrospect, duh, but in actual practice, it’s a SNAFU within a SNAFU.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Actually more the BOT than Faculty Senate.

In many cases the Faculty Senate can make recommendations, but cannot actually change policy without approval from the President’s office or BOT. Emeritus decisions are ALWAYS made at the BOT level.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Which supports my argument all along that this is a university issue, not a football issue.

However, who care about what goes on behind closed doors at Old Main. Throw in the greatest coach in college football history and now you have a story.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

UNTRUE

Joe had absolute power to revoke his status within the forcefield

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Isn't it amazing that Joe had the power to stop all this, yet could still be fired?

Am I missing something here, or was Joe perhaps not as powerful as he was portrayed?

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

He was both the irresistible force

and immoveable object, don’t ya see?

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

WOW!

That is insightful and true!!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesse's whole quote was something like this:

For 12 Saturdays a year Joe is a doddering old man that shits himself and can’t call an offensive play.

The rest of the time he’s a supernatural mist that not only sees, hears, and knows everything, but can control the actions of a football program, a community, and the state.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Does that mean no bowl game?

Only 12 Saturdays?

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to put words in Jesse's mouth; I'm just assuming here.

Bowl games didn’t count because it seemed like Joe always won bowl games.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Just checking, Ab.

Thanks for the clarification.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Bowl games aren't necessarily played on Saturdays.

…of course, regular games aren’t usually played on Saturday in the Big East.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Touche' re bowl games, LH418.

Please define “regular” for the Big Least.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I was talking about anything between August and November.

I will concede, however, that there’s very little regularity in that conference.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

The Big Least commissioner,

when asked if the BE players wore partial or full jock straps, replied, “Depends.”

So much for regularity.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

That was before 2002

I think.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

An attached chronology of events....

can be found here. It is consistent with my assertion that there were no events at PSU after 2002.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

We've discussed this somewhat before, but..
As a result, I think there is a relevant connection to the NCAA’s investigation in to “lack of institutional control”.

You really think there’s grounds here for LOIC? I wouldn’t think you could punish the football program; all those employees did what they were expected to do according to rules and regulations. Of course the first thing I think of is loss of scholarships, TV, or Bowls like traditional sanctions with things like LOIC. I most certainly wouldn’t expect any punishment to the baseball or basketball team because of something the AD/VP did or didn’t do. But in that same breath (general question coming up…) how could the NCAA single-out football and impose, say, scholarship reductions on a football program that didn’t violate any NCAA rules?

by The Booster on Jan 10, 2012 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

As this dies down, I think we'll hear less and less from the NCAA.

The NCAA’s job is to ensure compliance with NCAA regulations governing intercollegiate athletics. Nothing in this scandal has given Penn State an unfair competitive advantage in football. It’s not like Miami, where players got parties, cash, bitches, drugs, etc, things that would lure players who would otherwise not go to that school. Same with O$U and tattoos and selling memorabilia, U$C, etc. What went on here was criminal. People have already lost their jobs, and when this is done, people will end up in jail.

What can the NCAA do that is a greater punishment than that? The NCAA was grandstanding because they had to look like they were doing something. Besides, has the NCAA even mentioned Syracuse? If they slam us in this and not Syracuse, I’d say the NCAA can get their asses sued off.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I slightly disagree.

This situation resulted in our current coaching staff being decimated, and our new HC has now hired Ted Roof to be our DC. Instant competitive advantage!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point.

The University didn’t have the balls to oust Joe, except under extreme duress. We manufacture this scandal (which, by the way, never really happened!) as a means to dismiss Joe, thereby bringing in another Ivy League graduate, albeit younger and with more energy, to awaken the sleeping giant that is our football program.

Yup. I can see the instant competitive advantage argument being made by the NCAA.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

If you dig deep enough, Ab, you can always uncover the conspiracy.

Exhibit A does that very well, on multiple threads.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

At the end of it all, I think it’s much easier to take responsibility for something when you know it’s your responsibility. Penn State is guilty of fostering an environment of no responsibility, and that’s a pretty bad thing.

I don’t know about your place of work, but at mine, we tend to reward people who take responsibility for things that nobody appears to be taking responsibility for – we view it as signs of incipient leadership.

As for Joe Paterno’s role, he is also a human being, a leader, a father, and a grandfather. He had moral responsibilities beyond those to the organization, as would you or I if we were in that role. No simple codification of rules or organizational structure can handle every eventuality nor can they substitute for people doing the right thing.

And the right thing, when you are told that a kid was sexually abused in your locker room, is not just to fire off a report and forget about it.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

No.

Do you honestly expect a calm response after you turn “take responsibility for something nobody’s taking responsibility for” to “violate company policy and go off the reservation”?

Also, when you take “should have done more” into “final responsibility”, you do not put me in the mood to treat you gently either.

Since I know you’re better than this, I’ll restrain my impulses to act as badly as you have here – for the time being.

Paterno should have followed up both inside and outside of the organizational structure when it became crystal clear nothing was done about Sandusky. He continued to work with kids and was sashaying around campus until he was arrested, for god’s sake; this didn’t exactly require detective work to realize that maybe the right thing wasn’t done.

And, again, this does not mean Paterno has ‘final responsiblity’. He had some responsiblity, legally, which he actually satisfied, unlike, apparently, several other bozoes in this affair. Great, we’re not arguing about them, but I’ve made it crystal clear that on the spectrum from “didn’t do enough” to “final responsibility”, that Paterno is on the far left side. Doesn’t mean he’s not on there at all. Doesn’t mean you should feel good about conflating this so you can look better in front of the rest of the audience here either.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I wrote

Spanier needs to be fired out of a cannon.

I said Curley and Schultz face jail time.

I said they were obviously more culpable than Paterno.

I said this on numerous occasions.

You still want to assign homework? Promise you’ll go back to being sane, and I’ll dig it up.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Here

I’m feeling generous. Here’s one. It should be obvious to a guy with your obvious brains that there’s not a lot of reason to discuss Curley, Spanier, Schultz, Sandusky since there’s no controversy – nobody is defending their right to their jobs.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's more

I can’t help myself. From twitter:

Spanier doesn’t deserve to resign. Paterno, yes. Spanier should be fired. Publically. If not out of a cannon, even. #psucharges #PSUBOT

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't follow Twitter.
It should be obvious to a guy with your obvious brains that there’s not a lot of reason to discuss Curley, Spanier, Schultz, Sandusky since there’s no controversy

But I shouldn’t read the specific rules of the BOT and apply them to the situation as I understand it? Moreover, I really didn’t take the position that Joe Paterno was “entitled” to his job. Neither in this piece, or anywhere else. I’ve written in support of your position on the legality of firing Paterno in the past.

All I did here was try to gain and explain the Penn State beauracracy as it realtes to this case.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No

When we’re talking about a certain set of crimes, the internal rules of the organization are not sufficient to guide one’s conduct, unless one does not aspire to be anything more than barely better than the guys that are going to jail.

Child sex abuse is one of those crimes.

There’s a whole spectrum of possible responses that Paterno could have engaged in when nothing apparently happened to Sandusky. My belief is that he asked Curley and/or Schultz about it once or twice and that was it. I believe that if he had gone outside the university power structure, he would have been quite clearly doing the right thing, and he would have stood a very strong chance of stopping future sexual abuse by Sandusky.

And I believe he knows this.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you know what Joe did do and didn't do?

Has Joe spoken on the record about this? What if Joe went outside the University, and law enforcement followed up with the University Park police, and UP police said there was nothing to go on? What if the boy in the shower WAS interviewed and said nothing sexual was happening? Then what? See. There are too many people who haven’t come out and spoken on the record as to what they knew, didn’t know, and when.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

JS' attorney

claims they have identified and contacted victim #2, who will testify that nothing of a sexual nature took place. It will be interesting to see how certain dogmatic people react to that, should the jury believe victim #2.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what the haters will say, don't you?

That Victim #2 was still assaulted. That Victim #2 was paid huge, HUGE hush money.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I have said

in another thread that IF Paterno followed up outside the university, I’d consider that enough to satisfy some normal level of moral responsibility.

There’s rumors from his camp that he ‘followed up’ which make it sound like he just talked to the same guys who didn’t do shit the first time around.

Finally, JS’s attorney has obvious reasons for making it sound like Victim 2 will support him. There were also rumors right before the preliminary hearing that the prosecution had found him and that he was going to testify for them. We now don’t know either way, but for what seems like the billionth time, the report from McQueary itself requires reporting to the cops and following up, regardless of whether the report ends up holding true.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Still not talking to you

while you persist in being uncivil.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

You're badly mischaracterizing what I wrote.
but at mine [place of work], we tend to reward people who take responsibility for things that nobody appears to be taking responsibility for.

Finish the thought. What was he supposed to do to take responsibility. Inependendantly go to the police? How do you think Penn State’s BOT would have viewed that? As a sign of “incipient leadership”, or going off the reservation.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Wait

I’m waiting for you to stand corrected before I re-engage in this.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll assume that you have also condemed the other parties.

I stand corrected.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I would be likely fired if I reported a crime (that I did not witness) to the police

instead of following our internal procedures. I have a real job though; not managing guys in flip flops.

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 10, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Then we have to hope

no kids ever get molested at the local Burger King, don’t we?

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That's uncivil!

So didn’t miss this in my hiatus.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Just remember

only people who disagree with the mob have to be civil! (ref comment about ‘real job’ and ‘guys in flip flops’.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, do you wear Keens instead?

I truly don’t think you’re employed based upon your fundamental misunderstanding of all things corporate. And, yes, I would imagine that Burger King has a corporate policy dealing with the procedure for reporting crimes. Hell, I probably know the guy who wrote it.

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 10, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

They do deal with kids more often,

but also remember that there was a case at McD’s where the manager made a girl strip to perform a “search.” There are sickos everywhere. Just last week, a local retired school teacher was arrested for a large number of child sex abuse charges over his entire career.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Clearly Joe knew about these

and did nothing

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Joe should have contacted McDs.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 12, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't bet against you

Unless you gave me like -3000, I might throw a 5 spot down.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That is actually really funny

Gotta give props when they are due.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 10, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Hell just froze over

I rec’d one of M1EK’s posts

Reporter: Can you give us a touchdown celebration, one that you would get penalized for?
Moye: I play at Penn State. I don’t celebrate.

by psupride on Jan 11, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, you attacked jesse. first,

without him saying anything resembling a personal attack.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You are so very wrong

He turned a reasonable position of mine into something warped beyond all recognition.

Try being objective sometime. It’s hard to see the sins of those who agree with us, but it’s a lot more important.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I am an objective person, by and large.

I wouldn’t be able to teach policy if I wasn’t objective. I think you just grate on me.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And I'll bet

you are under the impression that you, and those like you, don’t grate on me at all, right?

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You need a better dictionary

There is no better definition of dogmatic than the behavior of you and those like you who have been defending Paterno in this affair.

And is it rational to make a death threat joke?

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I won't talk to you

until you apologize for being uncivil.

/holdingbreathstompingfeetpouting

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I join you in that one

PSU_Lions_84

Irrational and dogmatic is quite accurate

His irrational hatred for Joe Paterno claiming his 60 years of honor is a sham is a crazy stance to take on a PSU sports site.

It’s difficult to understand how he is tolerated. He might as well be a ShaggyBevo troll for all the loyalty he displays toward his claimed alma mater.

That grates on me and I’m not a PSU alumni. Seeking attention by being dogmatically irrational is pathological and these constant long threads of Homer vs the entire BSD community are tiresome and stupid.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Linking the whole paragraph

is great. As is the conflation with the avatar (should I start assuming you’re really a little girl?)

But this really needed more capital letters, and there’s barely any reference to sex in there at all.

I think you can do better.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Hard to tell which is more absurd

The idea that you think
or
the idea you have that I would care what you think.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Funny

He turned a reasonable position of mine into something warped beyond all recognition.

Homer and “reasonable proposition” never go together in the same post.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I disagree

I have not turned any arguments from those like you or those like Paige into their reductio ad absurdium versions, even though at times, when some of them have behaved very badly, I have been very sorely tempted.

You did. It wasn’t “taking a crack at it”; it was conflating it with something ridiculous and then taking a crack at that instead.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There is nothing wrong with binge drinking.

Posting arguments that look like they could have come from a binge drinker? Also allowed, but be funnier, please.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm out of practice.

Give me some time and more beer and I’m sure I’ll get funnier!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm signing up as your

designated driver to/from your AA meetings, Paige, since you will definitely have a drinking problem after that.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks, 84!

I appreciate the support!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm enjoying how you are lighting up this buffoon.

Am taking up a collection so his parents can afford more Ritalin.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rational responses have no

effect – so I guess there is some pleasure in watching this constant train wreck.

What is the term for an individual who courts constant abuse and vilification on the internet? If there isn’t one we should coin it. M1EKopathy and the natural reaction to it is Homerphobia?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I call dibs...

on drinking every time he uses the word ‘sashay’.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 10, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Sigh.

I’m gonna have buy a bus to carry all you people . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Woo hoo!

Permanent DD!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Just wait in the bar until I get there --

it will be a LONG commute to get all of you.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I explained what I wrote above.

I even gave you the admission you wanted, without further explanation or comment. But, your neither the first, nor will you be the last, to dislike the way I argue from time to time. It was nothing personal.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I never said

it was personal. I said I didn’t like it, and I’d respond in kind if you didn’t cut it out.

I could just as easily conflate many arguments made here with their more ridiculous versions too, which is what some of the outside venues are already doing. It would not be difficult, and I have had to restrain myself from doing so when highly provoked.

Likewise, restraining my urge to actually call the people on the other side of this debate the names that they so richly deserve while I’m getting it with both barrels has also been quite difficult.

More amazing still is that so many people here are so clueless about how they could be getting argued against if they were actually getting as good as they gave.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Flag it.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Watch out

he’s gonna break out the “creepy pervert” name calling again to try to hurt your feelings.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Jesse.'s internet version of

Sack up and stab me.

.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts

by SarcasmJam on Jan 11, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

This is a good point

except that, for one obvious thing, as a denizen of USENET from back before many of you were born, I’m aware of the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds or thousands of readers for every poster here – and I do not want their image of PSU to be that of unanimous denial of reality.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

99 years young.

Sitting in a hotel room on a business trip wishing I was drunk or asleep.

I mean, in my mom’s basement.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

you argue the way hannibal lector does.

i wonder about the contents of your freezer…

by NuclearLion on Jan 10, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I bet his customers

hate to see him in town if his social skills with them are anything like his ability to win friends and influence people on BSD

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I also wish you were asleep.

And completely believe that you do live in your mother’s bedroom.

Who else needs this kind of attention from the internet?

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 12, 2012 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes only M1EK knows the reality

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I take issue with the box quote as well.

We all have the same forum available to us. He could just as easily write a Fanpost and attempt to direct the discussion in a way that suits his argument. Going first is a tremendous advantage, his one Fan post had nearly 800 comments, it’s not fair to assume nobody would read it.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You have to understand

that that’s at least 50% milder than what I’m getting here.

Don’t you?

Or do you really think “denial of reality” is somehow remotely as bad as what your compatriots are flinging my way?

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

In the beginning...

yes, people were very rood to you. Now, not so much.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Incredible
You have to understand
that that’s at least 50% milder than what I’m getting here.Don’t you?

You think you could do something more meaningful with no restrictions or that name-calling would give you some power?
I can’t imagine anyone here caring one bit about names you might call them. In fact the more hate you display toward a BSD patron the more people like them.

You seem to have a massive ego problem that gives you the impression that your contempt or refusal to reply or claim of dogmatism is of some importance to BSD posters. I can’t see the slightest evidence of that.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, I wasn't saying it was inappropriate or whatever

Just that it was a really passive-aggressive and cheap comment. I wouldn’t really care whether you were polite or cursing everyone out…I’m just pointing out that I saw what you were doing there and that it was pretty weak.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 11, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think

there is a nicer way to state that idea that shows that I believe people are denying reality. Your statement doesn’t even come close.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Nevermind.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 12, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

PETRIFICUS TOTALUS!

I love Latin!

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

that was the second movie, I think

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

He looks like a young (living)

John Candy.

Not to be confused with the martyred John Candy.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

nope, first

at the end of it before they go through the tasks protecting the Sorcerer’s Stone, Neville tells them not to be out of bed and says he’ll fight them. Then Hermione apologizes and uses petrificus totalus on him.

Has my nerd status been solidified yet? Was it ever in any doubt?

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

NC =

NerdCarlotta.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

eh, I'll take it

I’ve been called worse.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

don't be ashamed

embrace your nerd side. we have cupcakes.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, I love the movies/books.

Refused to see the last movie b/c my boys grew up reading HP. They are now 21 and 19, and HP is over.

Sad Dad.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw it with my Mom!

After I saw it with my friends.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I have this feeling

that once I see it, the entire mystique is over. Right now, I can reread the series and it’s still alive.

Just sentimental . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

that makes perfect sense, truly

but when I watch the last one, it just makes me want to go back and watch the first again…or, rather, read the first two novels and then watch movies 3-7.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

We would order like four copies of each book.

When they arrived, we (wife, sons, and I) would drop what we were doing and read from cover-to-cover.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

My brother (now 20) and I

went to all the midnight sellings of books 5-7. He went with me to all the midnight movies as well. A bonding experience for so many families, just a wonderful phenomenon I doubt will ever be replicated.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I've heard JKR may revisit

the HP thing somehow. Nothing definite, but it would be great (I hope!).

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw it at midnight

with my mom AND my friends!

I’m sure no one is surprised.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

In all seriousness, JKR

inspired a whole new generation to read. THAT’s awesome!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

it truly is

I respect her immensely for that. And also for being able to maintain some semblance of anonymity while all this craziness is going on around her…though of course large estates and private security do help with that.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I respect her for not thinking we all want to watch a reality show about her life

coughkardashianscough

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

OK

I just remembered it was in the second movie that the Basilisk was petrifying people.

Poor jesse. Look what his excellent post turned into.

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Ehhh...

What is BSD without a tangent or two.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Once you get the divas all in one room...

…Harry Potter was the best I could have hoped for.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Teen Mom is on

we should live blog it

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

And I am out.

Work tomorrow, and this is my busy time of the year.

Night, all. Been (mostly) a pleasure.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

night 84!

I think I’m about to go to bed as well…I’ve been working overtime in the mornings so getting up earlier. At least I can beat DC morning traffic that way!

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I LOVE the DC area.

Worked in Pentagon City for 8 years. City just oozed power.

E-mail please if where you work is hiring financial people — I’m sick of the Duke crap. E-mail in profile.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Just gonna tell you, we're not

I work for a Pension Fund, and we might be looking at a few more layoffs in the coming months…here’s hoping not though.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Come to Duke.

Lifetime security for some. Get six months’ experience — 50 times.

Sorry, gotta go or I’ll burn up the net bitching about work.

H&K all Divas.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

You have actually done something like this in an argument with me

I haven’t been as active for a little while, but I didn’t want to let you slide on that claim.

Several times, when I’ve tried to engage you in a discussion on a certain point, you’ve refused to engage me on my specific comment, and instead argued (in reply to me) against what “my side” has said.

It’s very similar to what you’re accusing jesse. of doing. I never espoused the stances of other commenters, but at times you’d take the most extreme stances taken in disagreement with you and indirectly attribute them to me, via grouping my individual arguments into a “side” or “wagon circle” or whatever.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

He has no interest in discussion Octa

His interest is in baiting those who disagree with his constant condemnation of Joe Paterno and his claimed alma mater.

When the only thing that gets attention is this constant return to the same failed argument there is something sick happening.

You did one heck of a job trying to be civil in a logical debate. Psuphysicist (?) tried valiantly to do the same thing. There was little if any success because that is not what he desires.

He likes his attention seeking behavior because it’s cheap and easy. He just has to be contrary and then claim he has been misinterpreted or attacked.

I call it M1EKopathy – or the pathological desire to be abused online.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Not true

In those threads, the typical course went like this:

Me: Long thread back and forth with many other participants.

You: “X. Stop arguing against Y”

Me: “But everybody else is saying Y. You’re not the only one here, you know”.

If you can find a case where I clearly identified YOU as saying something with which you feel you should not have been identified, please let me know and I will retract and apologize.

But if you’re complaining that the positions of the 100 people on your side sometimes get generalized, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s hard to treat 100 people as distinct individuals all the time.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

This is where we've had some discussion before

The beauty of BSD and the SBNation platform is that you can respond directly to one person using the reply function. The thread and subthreads continue. At the same time, you can choose to ignore anyone chiming in unfairly by not replying to their post.

I understand that often people speak in generalities, but the point is that if two people choose they can have in depth, meaningful discussions without the strawmen that persist on other sites.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Not true.

When there are dozens of sniping jackasses interjecting themselves into every such conversation, it at some level becomes very difficult to continue a respectful discussion with the few that try to do so.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, you can try

And like I said, its your choice to engage or ignore them. All you have to do is reply to the person you want to continue to engage and ignore the ‘sniping jackasses’

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

No.

It’s actually not remotely that easy, but you’ve never had to do it, so I guess it doesn’t matter.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I haven't had to do it here

But I’ve had to do it in real life. There have been instances where I made a shitty first impression and had to spend a ton of time and overt good will trying to earn a position of respect within that group.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope.

Not buying this redirection. Every single person who has posted here with an unpopular opinion and didn’t immediately give up when confronted has been treated the same way by this site’s commentariat.

If you want a serious discussion with somebody who’s getting attacked by ten other snipers, do something about the snipers yourself. Otherwise, the signal gets lost in the noise.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright

Well, its everyone else then. None of it has anything to do with your general demeanor.

Look, I think there are a few people that are out of line. I’ve defended you on multiple occasions. At some point though, you can either take some responsibility and ownership and change the conversation, or you can continue this direction. Quite honestly, I feel you’d get a lot more support from a lot of the regular commenters here if you did that.

But I’m not going to tell you what to do. Its your choice.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Respectfully

you don’t HAVE to do it either.

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 11, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

How many posts do I have to read in which you are the victim M1EK?

Sheesh.

Poor you. You cant say what you want, you’re on a leash. You’re write and everybody else is delusional and poor poor you.

Get over yourself. You’re not that important and you are cluttering too many threads. Maybe you should start linking to your past posts instead of repeating yourself so many times.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Uncivil!

“Sniping jackasses” is UNCIVIL!!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Not buying this either

I tried real hard to keep engaging you directly, and it was very difficult to do so in all the noise. Most of that was the fault of others, but when you were sometimes egging them on it was difficult to take you seriously in the subthreads in which you didn’t. Also, it IS very difficult to have a discussion about a group reaction to an event without generalizing.

I even told you at one point I was having a hard time with it; you can take that as it was honestly intended or believe it to be disingenuous – your choice.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe you

that you have a hard time with it. But at the same time, it’s really not that hard. Read within the four corners of the person’s comment box, and respond to their comment, and they can do vice versa.

It’s more a matter of willingness to try than anything else.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 12, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Still trying?

Better man the me. I prefer to call him names nasty names that were popularized on the 80’s sitcom Small Wonder.

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 12, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

whats wrong with working at burger king?

are you above that?

keep winning ugly

by tlrpsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I flunked BK school.

Couldn’t remember what came after, "Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce . . . "

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not only a crime you didn't witness

but a “witness” that didn’t report a crime.

Joe got an ambiguous muddled “report” that he did not fully comprehend about a guy who did not work for him and who was not using the facilities under his control or auspices

given the very ambiguous nature of Paterno’s replies
"I’m not sure exactly what it was"
"Well I don’t know what you would call it"
"Whatever you might call it".

It certainly does not convey any certainty as to what he was hearing?

something that has been pointed out time and again without effect because the person promoting this “Joe heard about a crime” distortion isn’t interested in the truth – He is only interested in blaming JOE.

So no crime was reported
It was not his employee or anyone under his control involved
So he called the appropriate administrators who had control the next morning and referred Mike McQueary to them exactly as he should have.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s window dressing. Key portions in that excerpt:

young boy
[H]e was doing something with the youngster. It was [of] a sexual nature.

Doing something of a sexual nature+youngster=crime.

by 1LisHell on Jan 11, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

We have the transcript and we can read

IN CONTEXT
“Well I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously he was doing SOMETHING with the youngster. It was sexual nature? I’m not sure exactly what it was” = NO evident crime involved with the obvious ? after sexual nature.

The question mark is not implied. It is expressed with “I don’t know what you would call it” an “I’m not sure exactly what it was”

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And remember

this is 9 years after the incident – recollections of an 84 year old of a 10 minute meeting.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

And I believe that McQueary testified that it was 2 or 3 slaps.

by dontcallmescooter on Jan 11, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And seriously dude?
I’ll restrain my impulses to act as badly as you have here – for the time being.

Is this some kind of threat? Save it.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I'm giving less than I'm getting

Don’t exaggerate my position to win points with the peanut gallery and I’ll be nice. Keep doing it, and I won’t. This is not a threat.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, Chris, if that was misinterpreted.

I was just trying to clarify if a martyr can be living, or if, by definition, has to be deceased.

I’ll try to clearer in the future.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

By definition

Has to be dead.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

unless of course

he rose from the dead to defeat the steelers in the playoffs

Reporter: Can you give us a touchdown celebration, one that you would get penalized for?
Moye: I play at Penn State. I don’t celebrate.

by psupride on Jan 11, 2012 8:31 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

AHh how could I forget that?

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

this is what he does

I like to just post pictures and spells from Harry Potter. More fun and so far has not been deemed UNCIVIL

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I LOVE NEVILLE

most underrated character of the series.

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly, the other guys need makeup to be truly hot

he is just all man, baby! That’s how he killed the snake!

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Ron Weasley, no hot

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

nothing against the Gingers

this particular one just is not hot

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I know, it's so sad

I have such hope for the gingers…and his brothers weren’t hot either.

When I was a junior at Penn State I knew a British international student who was a ginger, and man was HE hot. I always thought he should go back and play Bill (he was a part time actor, IIRC).

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He seems to threatening to break out the "creepy pervert" claim

again as if something he might call you should be feared or dreaded?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn't going to post...

But once again your lack of experience biases your view. Jesse did excellent, unbiased work here. You need to check out your own motivations.

There are specific rules in big institutions, not to mention fiercely guarded turf. You don’t cross lines willy nilly. While McQ’s story to Joe sounds juicy now. At the time it was little more than hear-say.

You simply cannot go off all “chicken little” at a giant institution like Penn State and expect to keep your job. Joe did exactly what he was supposed to do. Now if you want to take a moral exception to that, go ahead.

And this…

And, again, this does not mean Paterno has ‘final responsiblity’. He had some responsiblity, legally, which he actually satisfied, unlike, apparently, several other bozoes in this affair. Great, we’re not arguing about them, but I’ve made it crystal clear that on the spectrum from "didn’t do enough" to "final responsibility", that Paterno is on the far left side. Doesn’t mean he’s not on there at all. Doesn’t mean you should feel good about conflating this so you can look better in front of the rest of the audience here either.

Well, that’s just crap.

by 87Townie on Jan 11, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: 'I wasn't going to post'

You’ve got good instincts. It wouldn’t hurt to follow them.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 11, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

This is complete bullshit
You simply cannot go off all "chicken little" at a giant institution like Penn State and expect to keep your job.

You make it sound like Joe Paterno was the mail room clerk in a F500 corporation. Give me a break.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me get this straight:

Paterno should have done more, but the actual eye witness, you know, the person who actually saw the events, and, you know, knows what actually happened, shouldn’t have?

Why is it on Paterno to do more and not, you know, the actual eye witness?

by misdreavus79 on Jan 11, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Where did you see me

say what McQueary should or shouldn’t have done?

If you would like to know, ask nicely, and I’ll tell you.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I have mentioned McQueary

a few times very early on. I said I give him more benefit of the doubt because he was truly dropped into an awful situation for which he could not possibly have been prepared – it’d be like walking in on your grandfather or your uncle doing something horrible when you’re a teenager and having to report it to your dad.

Joe was 75 years old and the head of the program. I expected more from him than just reporting it up the chain.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

My friend, that makes no sense.

How are you going to give the benefit of the doubt to the only person who can indeed go to the police (by the way, your only mention of McQueary in this thread prior to me bringing it up was when you said his report should have been taken to the police —my point exactly) yet at the same time crucify a third party because he’s a head coach?

So you’re saying because Paterno was head coach he was prepared to handle the situation better? What is it about being 75 and a head coach that inherently prepares you to handle a case of sexual abuse?

Oh, and a little note: Sandusky was not part of the program at the time of the allegations, so using his position actually detracts from your point.

Are we also going to crucify McQueary’s father and his friend? He told them too…

by misdreavus79 on Jan 12, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

No M1EK is pretty satisfied just crucifying Joe

Of course he’ll say that the others are to be assumed.

by BRJ75 on Jan 12, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, give me a break.

You honestly think Joe Paterno was less well equipped to know what to do than a grad assistant in his 20s? Really?

And Sandusky was Joe Paterno’s right hand man from the day McQueary was born until a couple of years before the incident. The fact that he wasn’t in the program any more was irrelevant.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps not less equiped

But if you’re not a man by 26 (or 28, I forget), then chances are you’re never going to get there. Let’s say no less equipped, ok?

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 12, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact he wasn't in the program anymore was irrelevant?

And you are guy that accuses the strawman arguments?

Sigh.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

What would satisfy me

is if we learned that Joe went outside the power structure of the university and was just told to cool it (or buzz off) by cops that weren’t on campus.

This gets ignored by those who want to believe that no other police would ever even listen to a report of a crime possibly being covered up by fellow ‘police’ (the jurisdiction argument). But if I learned that Joe went to the SCPD, at least, I’d feel a lot better about what he did.

State police would be better, since they’d be better positioned to deal with an inferior police force apparently not doing their job, but I’d accept SCPD.

by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, then I'm guessing there will be no satisfaction for you, unfortunately.

And I think a lot of that rides on the word “apparently.” Because what’s apparent now may not have been apparent then—at least not to Joe. (The whole “hindsight” thing.)

IF he was told that it had been investigated and there wasn’t anything actionable that could be done, and he was told by two people he trusted, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to understand why he didn’t take it outside the university. And I think that’s where you get the push-back from most people—by dogmatically Insisting that there is no reasonable explanation other than callous disregard. (which is how your “just file a report and forget about it” comes off.)

I certainly hope we get to hear from Joe. I may ultimately not agree with the actions he chose, but gaining more knowledge of his thought process at the time would certainly help me understand them.

by psu87intn on Jan 10, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

By the way, I swear I didn't use the word "dogmatic" to piss you off

Just now read the other thread and saw that’s a word that frustrates you. If I could delete it, I would.

by psu87intn on Jan 11, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Outside the power structure. For something he didn't witness.

To police without jurisdiction over the location of the alleged crime. Without testimony from an alleged victim.

Got it (I think.)

Joe Paterno Apologist

by Joe 96alum on Jan 10, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think the fundemental place we disagree is this...

…to paraphrase his position, is that because he had not seen, or been told about satisfactory (or any) progress regarding the “investigation” that he had a moral responsibility to follow up outside the power-structure.

What I said above is two fold; 1 Neither Curley nor Schultz had any obligation to tell Joe Paterno anything, and as a result they could have told him any number of things or nothing at all, and 2 unless the person you reported this incident to had additional questions, you would have no expectation of getting an explanation (see part 1). Additionally, if you read Novak’s work, you get a much better feeling for Orwellianness of the Beauracracy. I simply posted it is afact, he provides numerous explanations and examples.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

...and there's my problem with a lot of people.

In Joe’s experience, the system worked. For all the head-butting between Joe, JA, the Centre County DA (not to mention specific players like Ms. Triponey), the end result of involving University and local law enforcement authority was that not only were the guilty punished, but often the suspected were made as examples. If Joe was sure that Schultz knew about the situation, and had no reason to believe that Schultz was incompetent, then not seeing any further investigation probably meant that there really wasn’t any fire behind the smoke that McQueary reported.

If you can actually move your perspective away from looking through the prism of the Grand Jury presentment, you might actually get back to the point where everybody was back in March – remember when we first heard about the Grand Jury investigation, and mostly dismissed it as likely somebody trying to get a settlement out of Second Mile? Up until Joe heard about the 2002 incident, with or without knowledge of the 1998 investigation (‘the charges were dismissed, and he’s still authorized by the state to work with kids – there’s no way those suspicions had any merit’) there was nothing to suggest that Sandusky was given to hanging out at playgrounds wearing dark glasses and a trenchcoat – yeah that description is a little over the top, but I’m trying to make the point that we’re talking about a behavior that’s so far out of line for a person who works with kids in plain view of lawyers, judges, and who knows how many child-welfare workers of one type or another, every day at Second Mile.

There’s more to this train of thought, but I’ve already moved well away from the direction that this sub-thread was already going…

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 6:55 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not buying this either.

You’re engaged in dogmatic rationalization here.

Sandusky was banned from bringing kids on campus, supposedly, although this restriction was apparently as toothless as anything else. While this was gutless and weak, it was something that should have indicated to Joe that “there’s some way those suspicions had some merit”.

And likely did.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Sandusky was banned from bringing kids on campus after 2002.

That has no bearing on anyone’s knowledge of the 1998 investigation.

…and you’re talking about a plan of action that was endorsed by Graham Spanier – a man with a background in children and family counseling. Surely if anyone has their finger on the pulse of who is or isn’t prone to molesting children, it’s somebody like that, right?

Again, you have to put the Grand Jury presentment completely out of the thought process if you’re going to get an accurate idea of what an individual’s thought processes could have been in 2002, because dogmatic rationalization was a much more reasonable course of action at that point.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not buying this

Sandusky continued to hang around with kids and continued to hang around the program. This is not a case where it wasn’t clear what, if anything, had been done. This was a case where it was obvious nothing had been done.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe you are referring to a different time period...

but I could swear McQueary testified that he never saw Sandusky around the program again with kids (at least on PSU’s campus). He was certainly around the program, but I haven’t heard anything to indicate that he did not listen to the directive not to bring kids around UP again. Of course, maybe I’m mistaken…

by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 11, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn those pesky "facts"

that keep popping up!! Interferes with the lynch mob (of one) frenzy.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

You parsed the sentence incorrectly.

(Sandusky continued to hang around with kids)

and

(Sandusky continued to hang around the program)

is not the same thing as

(Sandusky continued to bring kids to the program)

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Except 1 is true.

2 is true. But there is no evidence that 3 is after 2002. That is conjecture.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Who's fault is this, really?
Sandusky continued to hang around with kids

The Second Mile was informed of an investigation that took place. If they chose not to follow up Sandusky hanging around kids is on them.

Sandusky was barred from bringing kids onto campus after the 2002 incident. Penn State’s administration has no right to regulate Sandusky’s actions that don’t pertain to them

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems odd to me

that the CEO or whatever of that Charity isn’t getting a failure tor report charge.

by FB6244 on Jan 11, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The NCAA is investigating Second Mile.

They hired Jim Tressel.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes.

When the police with supposed jurisdiction didn’t do anything, and the crime was child sexual abuse, and the location was the locker room of his football program.

You left that part out. Not surprised.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

As far as anyone knows

no crime was committed on Mar 1, 2002

There is no victim
and all that exists are a number of conflicting statements about 3 claps and two 1 or 2 second glances of a back.
and then nine years pass and the AG through the Grand Jury Presentment puts out a complete distortion and LIE attributed to Mike McQueary

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I certainly read it as an explanation,

as an attempt to understand and come away with something useful.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 11, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

You know what would be useful

Subjecting individuals to scorn, replacing them, and moving forward.

/drifts single cell towards light

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 11, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with your point on that.

My daughter has attended the soccer camp there for the past 3 summers — and the last two have been overnights. Those camps have thousands of kids attend them (for not a small fee BTW), so the University was exposed to a ton of liability if it didn’t have some level of policy regarding reporting assaults against minors.

.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts

by SarcasmJam on Jan 11, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you for your work, jesse.

And for the excellent analysis.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 8:39 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Wait, so basically what you're saying is...

You’re pro-child rape and you defend child rapists because football is bigger to you than right and wrong. Got it.

— National Columnist or Talk Show Host

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

You didn't use the sarcasm font, FTFY...

Wait, so basically what you’re saying is…

You’re pro-child rape and you defend child rapists because football is bigger to you than right and wrong. Got it.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I liked it without sarcasm, Paige,

because it so represents my position on things.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oops

I didn’t mean to violate board protocol. I don’t know how to do use the sarcasm font.

I weep for anyone who reads that and thinks reducing a well-considered treatise on where Penn State is right now to an absurd, media-centric talking point is somehow a legitimate point. Egads.

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just playing with you, really.

I didn’t think you were being serious. I’m not really in a serious mood tonight!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

So what you're really implying is...

You think a crazed mob tipping over a TV truck and pelting an ESPN hairdo is A-OK.

Wait, I’m not learning here am I…

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course not,

but is it really right to blame 40,000 students or more for a few hundred’s actions? Or call a 500K alumni (dues paying base) facilitators of child rape?

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I know this is a joke, and I took it as such.

But logically extended it’s actually what pisses me off about the whole thing. The Sports Radio station in Pittsburgh talks about this a great deal, unless, people would rather talk about the Steelers. So by extension, child sexual abuse is slightly less important than whether or not Ben Roethlisberger will be ready to go against San Francisco. Or in the alternative, it’s as important as ratings.

Even if every word I wrote is apologist drivel, at least it’s my own personal honest attempt to quantify what happened, and offer some solutions to fix the problem so it never happens again. That makes my apolgist opinion better than a hard assed lunatic’s that thinks Penn State should get the Death Penalty.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hey man, it's much easier to be a critic

Than to be someone who creates something. I say this as someone who has never really created anything. I’m just letting you know I appreciate what you did here, and even if I didn’t agree personally with about 90% of it (I do), I’d respect it.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

This is just about the only place you’re going to see something like what you put together. The time it takes most normal people — let alone the media — to deconstruct what happened and put it back together is beyond their grasp. It’s easier to rely on preconceived notions, biases and under-informed superficiality. I’m not really letting “them” off the hook about this, I just think we are operating under unrealistic expectations when we crave others give this the same amount of serious thought that we do. So frustrating.

Which is yet another reason why the panicky actions taken in the first 72 hours or so of this exploding outward were critical in shaping the story. Since the extremely important public relations people were all late that morning they talked about crisis management in their PR classes, this is now a forever lost opportunity. In hindsight, I wished they’d done more.

BTW, kudos again…

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It's easier

to be a critic than to try to fix things.

But also, and I suspect you know this, it’s a lot easier to rationalize away the sins of those on “our team” than it is to honestly assess them as if they were, say, committed at Ohio State.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Mr. Spock summed it up best in Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan:

’It is one of the oldest laws in the universe. It is easier to destroy than to create."

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Ergo, it is easier to be a destroyer

than to be a creator. That explains a great deal.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, sure

‘Cos thinking and fairness don’t pay the light bill, Chuck-o.

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 PM EST reply actions  

Gah

Reply fail. Can’t even stay in my own thread.

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I got room on my drunk bus for ya, Bug.

Just wait in the bar with the rest of the lushes until I get there.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Lushes,

woo!!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I need to be more careful what I type.

Chris cut me some major slack on one of my earlier remarks,

Amended: “Just loiter in the drinking establishment with the other non-recovering drinkers.”

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I do type statements like a binge drinker,

so I’ll go ahead and own it. LUSHES, WOOO!!!!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 10, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

"Another one rides the bus, and another down, and

another one — ANOTHER ONE RIDES THE BUS."

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

man, now I have that song in my head!

I am very susceptible to musical suggestions (just ask Dawson, I’m still waiting on payback from one…)

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 10, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably old enough,

not technologically astute enough.

Rings a bell, tho. I worked at MCI for eight years . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 10, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Right after

I get my rotary smart phone, I’m getting an app for Usenet. Then I can post about feelings about the latest Weird Al LP.

by Jitterbug on Jan 10, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Alpocalypse

It’s really good.

.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts

by SarcasmJam on Jan 11, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

is that the one

Where Dog’s wrath comes down upon mankind?

All of our comments are irrelevant - LetsGoPSU

by jaytay13 on Jan 12, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

very nice one!

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Good post

and thanks for taking the time to write it.

I still think the BOT made JoePa a scapegoat, but in the world that we live in I understand why it happened.

The whole problem I have with JoePa being assigned even a degree of moral culpability is that he wasn’t the witness to the 2002 incident. This is a BIG deal. How much do you rattle cages when you yourself didn’t witness the event? You only know what you’ve been told. In the ‘02 incident, we have a situation where the witness McQuery sat in a meeting with the supervisor of the police. Once this takes place, everyone else becomes peripheral. You can’t hold someone morally culpable for the failure of others to do their basic job.

Joe Paterno Apologist

by Joe 96alum on Jan 10, 2012 10:55 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

I had mine first!

Maybe. I think I may have seen it in a comment in a post first.

Joe Paterno Apologist

by Joe 96alum on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Will there be more to come?

If and when this matter is resolved in the courts I would like to know the depth of any and all investigations. Much has been made of the “With the benefit of hindsight” quote but there has been no attention at other points of Coach Paterno’s limited statement(s).

"Sue [Paterno’s wife] and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential. The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true, we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.

Emphasis mine. I don’t believe this to be a haphazard statement, though the term “scores” may be hyperbole. Who are these othres and trained professionals and what was their involvement?

Striving for Success with Honor

by Frank O'Brien on Jan 10, 2012 11:41 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Second Mile would be my guess.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

That gave me an "ah ha' moment Frank

Wonder what the makeup of the Second Mile staff actually was
Surely there were trained child psycologists and social workers on staff.

Did they not try to discover and ascertain the cause of any emotional problems that might have stemmed from abuse?
Did they not notice reactions to Sandusky among these kids?
Was there not a system in place to secure these kids at second mile in order to protect them from predators?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

State child protective services (or some other group with a similar name)

was involved in the ‘98 investigation. They are the ones who ultimately decided there wasn’t enough info for charges and that’s why the investigation never went anywhere. Why isn’t anyone talking about that?

Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson

by belbijou on Jan 12, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Not only that...

they also had the authority to inform Second Mile that there was enough meat to the charges that Sandusky shouldn’t be working unsupervised with kids any more, even if there wasn’t enough for criminal prosecution. The fact that they didn’t even go that far is what makes who-knew-what-about-1998 a complete red herring in my mind.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 12, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Devil's Advocate?
Why isn’t anyone talking about that?

Because there was a police investigation rather than a sloppy University inquiry.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Graham Spanier

has a Ph D. in sociology and is a licensed marriage and family therapist. So he’s a bit more qualified than a football coach in these matters . . .

Joe Paterno Apologist

by Joe 96alum on Jan 10, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If only somebody would have told him.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 10, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It was almost definitely scores

Child welfare service agencies had open reports on Sandusky at least through the mid-00’s. There are, in fact, a lot of constraints in this area of the law on what people can and cannot do, even if they desire to do more.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 10, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So why is it then that everyone insists Paterno should have done more?

Is it unreasonable to expect that these professionals adequately investigated the accusations against Sandusky? I’d also include Curley and Schulz in this expectation.

Striving for Success with Honor

by Frank O'Brien on Jan 11, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Was anybody involved in this other than Joe Paterno?

I ask because Penn State = Joe Paterno in 135% of everyone ever. To them, Curley, Schultz, McQueary and frankly very likely Sandusky are all new people who essentially didn’t exist before. So to wrap one’s head around the possibility that the only person they know of at Penn State AND the one who’s been there forever and a week is inside a chain of command is just a bridge too far.

Also this: everyone has heard about how awesome Joe is. If he’s as awesome as everyone says he is, then he should have easily stopped a horrific act by a (alleged) monster when he had the “chance.” If not, then he’s a decrepit, senile old coot who failed us all and must pay the price because of his complicity. There can’t be anything in between those two poles because that possibility introduces a level of complexity to the situation that requires people to admit they know less than they thought about Penn State, child molestation and most importantly, themselves.

by Jitterbug on Jan 11, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Awesome reading

and I like your tip of the hat to engineering.

In most of the instances, you have a mistake, coupled with opportunities to correct the mistake that get missed, coupled with bad luck.

the reading I have done seems to show that when systems fail, there may be a single catastrophic event, but it frequently occurs as a result of multiple, coincident failures, each within its own anticipated safety factor.

by cs93 on Jan 11, 2012 1:35 AM EST reply actions  

ie. the Titanic.

a lot of little mistakes and all line up and make one horrific disaster.

Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson

by belbijou on Jan 12, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

And

their best buds. That would appear to be the case.

Chris has called out several posters and warned them of a ban, but let a buddy of his do the same thing, and it doesn’t matter how many times it’s flagged, no warning, no nothing…

It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa

by nylyst on Jan 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll give Chris credit for at least contacting the guy to give him a warning.

I was banned from a Cetics blog for repeated profanity. Never given a warning. Chris will at least give you a chance first.

You do good work, Chris.

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Banned from a Celtics blog for profanity?

That doesn’t make any sense. Did you suggest Larry Bird could have been better at some aspect of basketball?

I'm the XBOX to your Atari.

by WorldBFat on Jan 11, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you give Bird the bird?

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

They never told me. I just went to log in and it said I was banned.

I think what happened was I got amped up and torqued and upset about all the injuries my beloved Celtics have endured every season after they’ve won a championship since 1986, and the profanities started to fly out of frustration and despair.

Would never, ever, ever, say anything bad about Larry. What bad could be said?

by Ab4PSU on Jan 11, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Larry Bird is from Indiana.

That’s what bad could be said.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Couldn't resist.

Inexplicably, I saw this in the theater. #GoSixers

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He does

As do all the other contributors to the site.

Don’t take my prior statement as an indictment on the good work done here at BSD. It’s my PSU home away from home.

That being said, I’ve flagged M1EK numerous times for name calling and derision of other posters on the same threads where Chris was warning his detractors and not so much as a peep was uttered. Sounds like a definite double standard to me.

It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa

by nylyst on Jan 11, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as the comments run up (i.e., we feed the troll), Chris will be happy

There’s really no other justification that makes sense, since this one person never posts anything new.

To paraphrase Newt Gingrich, I think the balogna pious act should cease.

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 11, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I ask myself that question all the time

about Reggie and Cheryl Miller.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

This is totally true.

I will keep creating more M1EKBOTZ until every thread is over 1,000 comments.

by Chris Grovich on Jan 11, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

He is clearly trolling and his buddy is clearly enjoying it. We are all stupid for playing along.

by FB6244 on Jan 12, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Show

one thread where I called any of you an asshole.

Please.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You collectively reffered to people as jackasses

10 minutes ago.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes.

Not the same thing. And collective. And you have no idea which people I was referring to, although I’m sure you can guess.

Again, show where I called nylyst, for instance, an asshole.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That seems like a pretty self-serving parse to me.

We either call other people assholes or jackasses or we don’t.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Not the same thing at all.

You have been able to say jackass on network TV for a long time now. And, again, I did not say “ is a ”.

Not remotely the same caliber of attack, and not personal.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a hint

When Red Foreman can call his son a jackass twice a week on broadcast TV for years, it’s not the same thing, remotely, as “asshole”.

Nice try, though.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard someone say asshole on TV

I think it was Always Sunny though. They also get to say shit on that show.

Side note, Always Sunny is the best show on television

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

The League is much better at this point.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with the league

Is that if you miss one episode, your SOL because they don’t put the most recent episode on demand until the following week. And its a show that you have to watch week to week. It lost me half way through last season because of this.

Its Always Sunny has been spot on this season. Particularly the Anti-social network.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

My Wife is a Blu-Ray Completest

7 times out of 10 I don’t bother to watch first run shows at all. The other 3 we DVR them. We actually have our DirecTV DVR Box hooked up to a hard drive, we can record like 1,000 hours of television. It’s absurd. Between those two things and NetFlix, missing episodes is not really my problem.

We actually saved an entire season of Damages (which is f@#king awesome if you’ve never seen it) and watched on a dead Sunday. I mostly prefer to watch TV shows that way anyway.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I'll start doing that

I just got a DVR, but I don’t use it. Maybe I’ll get some use out of it someday

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the Hard Drive that makes it.

The one you get with the box only holds like 30 hours of shows. Ours is set up like, “Ohh, Gladiator, I’ll watch that someday…record”. We had Gran Torino on the DVR for more than a year.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I've got about 3 unused HDs laying around

I guess I’ll plug one of those terabyte suckers into it and start recording

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 11, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

We did the same thing with our movies.

Wife and i had close to 400 DVD’s, friends at least 600 more. We’ve been burning them all on to a common HD, which we will use in only legal ways.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesse., are you allowed to explain

how you have that set-up? Wife was just commenting that she has the DirecTV DVR about full, and was trying to figure out what to delete or download. You can e-mail me if you can’t open source that.

Thanks!

P.S. We are technologically challenged, so use simple terms.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry that's all Wife.

I can barely download a Phish CD of the internet. It’s almost comical.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha.

I’ll ask the wife to google the concept . . . Great idea — thanks for sharing.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

DirecTV probably has the instructions.

I’ll ask her about it when she’s done with the boy’s bedtime story.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

What's tonight's story?

My boys are way past that stage, unfortunately. We are fast approaching the stage where they will read to me, and probably have to feed me, too.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds Like Scooby Doo.

A ghost in mexico or some shit like that.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Try "Diggers and Dump Trucks" or

“Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs”. DADT isn’t a story per se, but the boys loved the pics of earth-movers and heavy equipment.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

He's 4.5...

He needs a story at this point. Preferably one with Spiderman.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Hug him often.

He’ll be 20 before you know it . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm afraid of that.

And I’ll be 50.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm 53, boys

are 21 and 19.

Sigh. Not about my age, but at the time going SO quickly . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Wife responds...

You basically plug a hard drive into the back. DirecTV actually has instructions and a list of compatible drives. It’s a feature of your DVR box, not a hack or a cheat.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Many thanks to the Wife.

Will pass along to mine for implementation.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

A Phishhead?

Your credibility and esteem just rose by leaps and bounds in my estimation.

My daughter dated Mike Gordon for awhile and as a former Burlington VT resident I am an ardent admirer and friend of the band.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 12, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

25 shows and counting.

Most recently at Woodstock this summer. I have tickets for Trey and Pittsburgh Symphony in February.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

You think so?

MUCH better? Maybe I don’t want to admit that you’re right – The League has definitely grown on me, and it’s hitting its stride now – but “much better” … I don’t know…

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with much better.

Sunny is on the downslide. The League is on the upswing, and to really appreciate you need to go back and watch the earlier seasons, because they are just as funny as the current ones, you just weren’t in on the jokes quite yet.

Kevin’s rant after David Akers missed the FG that cost him the Shiva Bowl is probably the funniest thing I’ve seen on TV in ten years.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe you're right

about re-watching the earlier seasons, since so much of the humor is derived from knowing and appreciating the characters. High learning curve character-driven comedies rarely disappoint me.

Another such show, for those on Netflix, is Trailer Park Boys. I highly recommend it. It’s Canadian, which is why you’ve probably never heard of it, but I was introduced to it by a friend who bought the DVD seasons on Ebay and was delighted to find it on streaming. It takes a few episodes to ramp up, because you have to get into the characters, but it’s well worth it once you do.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

disagree

the bad episodes are worse than in the old days but there were no less than 7 outstanding and hilarious episodes this season. CharDee MacDennis and the episode where they get locked in the closet of that house were 2 of the 5 best of all time

by swiggy04 on Jan 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

My favorite is and will always be

“The World Series Defense”

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I have three favorites

The gang goes to prom from season 1
The gang solves the gas crisis in season 4
and
The anti-social network from season 7

The world series defense is great, as are many many other episodes

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 12, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

No No

One of hte best is “The Gang Dance’s their Asses Off” as well as “The Nightman Comenth”

How has no one mentioned the Nightman? Are any of you actual fans?

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 12, 2012 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

That part has lost humor for me.

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 13, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry Octa

I considered the irony, tried to think of something witty, realized it was past my bed time and hit send anyway.

by cs93 on Jan 13, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep singing bitch

I will slap your face off your face!!

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 13, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know...

That’s kind of like “Love Me Do” being your favorite Beatles song.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 13, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

They said "ass-hat" on Bones,

and that is a very cerebral program.

Can we get a ruling on “ass-hat”, Mr. Moderator?

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry - I can't let this stand.

Bones has admittedly gotten better the last couple of seasons, but to call it cerebral is a real stretch. Entertaining, certainly – but on a technical level, it’s about on par with a Popular Mechanics article on hypothetical UFO technology.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 12, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

For those of us who are

non-medical personnel, it suffices. I submit it is “cerebral” compared to 92.8% of other television. Feel free to disagree.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I have tried to get into it

and every time I do it seems like something I would like, but then I never stick with it.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost Sunny or

The League, M1EK?

Just curious . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost Sunny.

And this is proof of the “hard to have a conversation in the middle of 100 people” problem. I was replying directly to “Always Sunny”, but even I have a hard time seeing it now without remembering the magic of the “Up” link.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Before I found BSD, I was on some other places

that had only “linear” conversations — boring.

M1EK, you may know I served in Special Forces — graduated from two sniper schools. I would NEVER seriously threaten anyone — I apologize to you and any others who were offended by my one remark last night.

Aside from that, you seem somewhat intelligent, aside from the fetish about Joe’s guilt. Maybe get some therapy and come ready to talk football.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Apology accepted

and what I meant was that as soon as the discussion is large enough, it is often difficult to see exactly what somebody’s responding to. Especially when you hit the maximum thread-depth, which happens very quickly in these things.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Appreciate it.

Will still bust your chops, tho — fore-warned is fore-armed..

I love the chaos of these threads!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

It took a while for my girlfriend to get into it as well

She actually hated it at first. Once she watched a few episodes and began to understand the characters/show she started watching it as often as she could.

The best part of the show, at least in my opinion is that its non-sequitar. There is some assemblance of a story line throughout the seasons, but overall the shows tend to stand on their own.

Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?

by psuphysicist on Jan 12, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

So we're using FCC standards now?

then I’m going to start calling people “ass___es” (never understood why they bleep the hole part)

"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.

by OctaShields on Jan 11, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

because an ass is not a curse as a standalone word

but an asshole is a body part. most/all words that are bleeped refer to a naughty organ in one way or another, whether it be an act to the part, or a reference to that part in general.

and of course the phrase GD, which is a relic of a bygone era. The reason goddamn being bleeped makes no sense is that its ok to say damn, just not goddamn. as if somehow its more reasonable to take if the word “god” is understood rather than expressed.

But all these rules are stupid. they’re just words people.

Thanks for setting me up for this, its not every day i get to use my undergrad degree attained knowledge for good.

by swiggy04 on Jan 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, technically it is using God's name in vain,

whether they say God or GD. It really offends some people (like my dad).

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually . . .

God is the job title.

More dicey might be taking chances with Yahweh or Jehovah followed by damn.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

no i get the theory behind it

but if i say “(god) damnit” or “god damnit” – is one really more tolerable if you are easily offended by that type of thing in the first place?

Thats what i dont get. if you arent offended by damnit by itself, then why should putting the word god beofre it make it any more or less offensive, they are both saying the same thing.

by swiggy04 on Jan 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know.

I personally don’t have a problem with it. I guess if you just say damn it, anyone could by damning it, not necessarily God? Or is God the only person who can do that? OK, I think I’m putting too much thought into this.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 13, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No, the FCC standards only apply to the vast majority of us.

M1EK can still call us whatever he wants. We are the 99%.

"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13

by kijana's acl on Jan 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we pitch tents in his yard?

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I should have said

@$$%()!e. Although the tangent is pretty funny.

by FB6244 on Jan 12, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

everyone knows jackass is a term of endearment

asshole is just plain mean

"There are too many Irish guys on this team"
Joesph Vincent Paterno
April, 2010

by letsgopsu on Jan 11, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It was used as a term of endearment in the lab today

not by me or to me, but by guys sitting next to me to each other.

Of course, we’ve also used the “I’m surrounded by assholes” line at work many times.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I will accept your criticism

when I see you applying it to the people flinging around much worse insults and being far more passive-aggressive – like the twitter clique, for instance.

Let me know.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

What insult is worse than calling someone a creepy pervert?

Is that really more appropriate than calling someone A-hole?

Thats ridiculous.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

DO I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY

THAT BTD WAS BANNED FROM BSD AFTER THIS COMMENT?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If you actually expected better

you would get rid of some of the trash.

by FB6244 on Jan 11, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesse.

Well done and thought out.

As for M1EK, I enjoy your posts and thoughts, but you do need to lighten up a bit. People have become much less hostile to you. It’s the internetz dude, chillax.

As for the rest of the BSD community, if you don’t care for M1EK then don’t engage and if you do engage, try to be nicer.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 9:34 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

And from my perspective

the dogmatism is coming from the other side – as well as an almost complete lack of introspection and critical thinking.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

2-4 line diatribes...

Don’t forget the incessant use of the word ‘sashay’ (attributed to Chris, yet I can’t find a single instance where he used the word) – there’s nothing like a barb that’s obviously intended to elicit homophobia for stimulating intelligent discourse.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

M1EK lives to be jumped on

as he sashays around these threads doing the same old dance step by step.
Maybe we should post a poll to see how many BSD posters are against the word sashay?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Jack Palance:

Have Gun, Will Travel. Dude got more mileage out a menacing look than almost anybody else.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Boss Carl Grissom!

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 11, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed.

There you have it. Some anti-M1EK folks pay lip service to trying to find common ground with M1EK, but if you can’t see eye to eye on sashaying, I don’t think you’re really trying.

I'm the XBOX to your Atari.

by WorldBFat on Jan 11, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

^ This

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

You may think you're having intelligent discourse with aurabass.

You should be aware that what aurabass looks like to the rest of the world is somebody who’s spending way too much time on the minutia of sexual intercourse between an old man and a boy for their own good. And that the rest of the world finds him as creepy as I do (hint: check out his attempts to spread this gospel at Daily KOS).

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Bad ideas should be confronted

especially when shared affiliation is at stake. So, no, I won’t be leaving you to wallow here.

Ignoring what the rest of the world thinks is a sure-fire way to come off more like Jonestown than Happy Valley.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

"Bad ideas should be confronted."

Congratulations. You have just proved that even a visually impaired squirrel can find an acorn once in a while.

You may want to ponder your own words when considering the number of people and posts trying to cure you of your delusions.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Feel free.

Unlike yourself, I actually spend time considering the merit of other opinions.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I consider the merits of your opinions --

it just doesn’t take me long to separate the pepper from the fly crap in your so-called arguments. I then turn to mockery, since dogmatic people tend to cause that reaction in me.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Me, too

You have no idea how much mockery I’ve had to hold back from you dogmatic rationalizers.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Bring it on, bro.

Right now, you sound constipated. Might help if you let go of some of it.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Instant rec, SWHA.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, right.

Patronizing isn’t nice.

I’m more familiar with the facts of this case than the average person arguing against me – I have just come to different conclusions because, frankly, I left my hero-worship stage behind a few years ago. You guys are still there, and still engaged in nothing more than dogmatic rationalization in the service of an idol.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, but this is what makes trolls so successful.

My intention on these boards is to engage in conversation and discourse to express my opinions and logical reasoning and to learn from others. At no point do I believe I hold all the answers, so these boards become my tool to help achieve me gain some.

Ultimately though, you need to reach the distinction that conversations with certain individuals will not help you accomplish your goals and I have finally come to that point. I truly value differing opinions from my own as those are the times I stand to learn the most. Unfortunately, it appears as though all the time wasted on M1EK has not taught me anything and now I shall choose to ignore.

It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.

by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

(hint: check out his attempts to spread this gospel at Daily KOS).

My repost of three BSD fanposts to Daily Kos had these results
Over 600 SHARES
Over 100 LIKES to Facebook
Over 30 Tweets

I consider that very successful in terms of spreading the alternate theory to the LIES in the Grand Jury Presentment and Linda Kelly’s Press Release

The comment threads looked like most comment threads – full of ASSHATS who screamed “CREEPY PERVERT” OR ‘PEDOPHILE ENABLER’ like the resident ASSHAT here on BSD. But I think it was worth the abuse to get those diaries out to a far wider audience using SHARE and LIKE

What do you think?

One example
Grand Jury and Media Manufactured “Penn State Sex Scandal”
by aurabass
Share 566 Like 38

and a few typical ASSHAT comments

Had I seen (13+ / 0-)
what McQueary saw in that shower, they’d have been calling more than just the cops. They’d have needed an ambulance for Sandusky.
Delete this piece of apologist shit. Then go pound sand.
Fuck you.
by kestrel9000 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 06:02:51 PM EST

WHY? (2+ / 0-)
Why is this diary still up? Doesn’t anybody have the balls to pull it? DKos is NOT the place for defending child rapists, or their enablers. The fact that someone thought this was a good idea only goes to show just how fucked up the people defending this mess are. Yes, that means you aurabass. Delete this shit.
by draa on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 01:44:37 AM EST

HR for being a child rape apologist (7+ / 0-)
Born & raised in PA, and know that to many in PA Joe Pa is the closest thing to God Almighty Herself; however there is no excuse!!!!

The votes on this poll were interesting

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 12, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Thank you for all that you are doing, both here and elsewhere.

The bottom line is that just because there are an overwhelming number of comments on one side, it does not indicate that everyone is of that same opinion. I’m sure there are numerous viewers of the site that have chosen not to comment due to the hostile environment and treatment of the commenters. With Daily KOS, as with ESPN, I do not believe it is fair to project the opinions found in the comment sections on to every viewer of the site. I’ve read articles on ESPN and disagree with the majority sentiment of the comments, that doesn’t mean I can’t find some of the information useful.

Typically what you find in comment sections of larger online communities is a polarization of comments, with the majority of people willing to comment (not necessarily the majority of users on the site) drowning out the less popular opinions. It’s therefore not surprising that on most comment sites, the overwhelming opinion of the comments is anti-Penn State. Most people on the pro-Paterno side are not nearly as polarized as the people on the anti-Paterno side. It’s far more likely to see someone willing to condemn the man to death than you are to find someone advocating for his deitization.

The true test that I apply to comment sections is this:
I do not validate my opinions based on the popular sentiment of a comment section. I do not wish to be on the same level as someone who’s calling for murder or rape of another individual. If I find myself alligned with these types of people, it is serious cause to reevaluate my beliefs and understanding of the situation.

It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.

by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks SWHA - it's quite amusing to see M1EK

trying so hard to seek validation of his opinion by using KOS copies of my BSD fanposts that achieve such a large number of Shares and Likes.
I agree with your assessment of comment threads. Piling on trumps reason every time as well.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 12, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I started out here

a few months ago with an awful lot of “if/then” type statements, attempting to determine which courses of action were more or less likely based on what seemed more or less plausible.

This was met with no more good faith counterarguments than what you see now.

I will consider making a FanPost, but surely even in your own world of dogmatic rationalization you must realize how it will be received by the crowd here.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish you would make a fanpost. Then I would know where not to go.

Look… We have completely lost the topic of this post.

And you are the reason why.

Thats fact.

So please, make your own fanposts and have at it, please stop taking over all of the other ones.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree...

that people who don’t agree with you lack introspection and critical thinking. They simply don’t agree with you.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Still he is very successful in getting what he wants

This great discussion about Jesse’s perspective has devolved into
ALL ABOUT M1EK

That seems to be a result of his overt attention seeking behavior based on who he is and his style of commenting – not on anything he has to say
If he wants to believe that Joe is guilty we can all accept that. It’s his opinion and he is welcome to it.
But his obvious desire is not to express his opinion. He wants to make as many threads as he can about his behavior.

Is that unfair?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know..

what M1EK’s motives are. I think sometimes he acts the way he does because he knows it will get a rise out of people. I think sometimes he is unfairly picked on. Sometimes he is just a jerk.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe SubLime can provide some psychological insight

if we take up a collection to pay for it. I got 32 cents not doing anything right now — who’s with me?

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in for an equal amout

about what I think M1EK is worth?

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I was not "conflating"

my contribution with his worth, merely offering what I had available.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL - I realize that

but it’s my opinion of his worth

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in for 100 bucks.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I will sign up for that from here on out

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

For those just tuning in and dont want to read all of this

the meme word/phrase of the week is “dogmatic rationalization”.

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Jan 11, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

zzz

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps we should instead inquire after a rational dogmatization.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 11, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

This thread was more fun

when we were talking about Harry Potter ;)

Fire Dan Snyder

by Cari Greene on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

Hey, NerdCarolotta,

good to hear from you today.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't believe..

nobody put up Emma Watson picks. BSD disappointed me today.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the Divas' fault.

Apparently not a lesbian in the bunch . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's unfortunate.

Because girl-hugs are hot. (This is the point where my wife slaps me on the back of the head).

by CvilleLion on Jan 11, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't worry, CVille;

the scar tissue back there builds up fairly quickly.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Here ya go...

He completed 17 of individuals 26 passes for 192 lanscaping your yard and two touchdowns - Chan Luu

by rahpsu92 on Jan 11, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Help me --

I’m f
a
l
l
i
n
g

into that abyss!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Emma derivations

Emma Watson, Emma Stone, Emma Frost, Emmy Rossum.

Who ya got?

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 11, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Emma

tired of the M1EK temper tantrums.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Emmy Awesome.

Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®

by leeharvey418 on Jan 11, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

my vote

I'm on the Internet cause I'm an Internet thug.
#OccupyESPN

by skarocksoi on Jan 11, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Because I've seen so much *more* of her

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 11, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Shameless

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 11, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know who this is...

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 11, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Is Emmy Rossum. She plays a very likable, and revealing, character on the Showtime series Shameless.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 12, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Got it.

Thanks. I haven’t really seen any of the Showtime series other than the Tudors, which I think was ST, but I watched on Netflix.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 12, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Emily also starred in Phantom of the Opera

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 12, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Emma

believer – I couldn’t leave her if I tried

Joseph V. Paterno has left an impression on my soul that wil never, EVER go away.

by GoodOleDays on Jan 11, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

This seems like the right thread to post this.

My Health Policy class for Masters students was meeting for the first time today. As I was sitting at the computer bringing my syllabus and lecture up, students were talking among themselves. All of a sudden someone said really loudly, “That dude was just Sanduskied!!” And then something about child molestation. I immediately looked up and said, “WHAT?!” The class got a little quieter. Finally I said, “You may not realize that I’m a Penn State graduate. I don’t want to hear the word Sandusky again in this class.” I was pissed!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 11, 2012 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

Way to bring heat, Paige!

Words carry accountabilty — something our star attraction fails to realize.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

The guy who made a ‘joking’ death threat wants to make that point, now?

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again, your interpretation skills are lacking.

Nice try at sounding wounded, tho.

Somebody get this young man a bunny to cuddle — stat!

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Been busy the past few days...what's been going on gang?

(reading comments…reading comments…reading comments)

Ah same old stuff, new day.

Glad I didn’t miss anything important.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 11, 2012 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

Nice of you to check in, tho, Aries.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I try

I am just not getting into any of these arguments anymore. All ridiculous persoanlly until the actual trials take place and actual evidence comes out. Opinions are nice, until actual facts can support them.

If not we are just repeating and rehashing and arguing over nothign really.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 11, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It's train-wreck fascinating at times.

You can see what is about to happen, and you wonder if — just this once — the car will get off the tracks in time.

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice analogy

And yeah I know what you mean, I read a bunch of it, then just stop and sometimes look for funny comments or random conversations that go on in the middle. Those are always fun

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 11, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why I try to inject smart-donkey (no swearing!) comments.

Some of this sounds life-and-death, and it isn’t . . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a good sounding position

except for the fact that the average position of the average commenter here on BSD has not stayed static – it’s like a ball rolling back down a hill unless somebody keeps kicking it. The natural state here appears to be willful rationalization whenever possible to protect the image of Paterno, and since most of the people who were pushing the ball the other direction have stopped bothering to comment, the ball’s moving more and more to crazytown.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Hard to reconcile

I am still trying to reconcile the bullshit response to the apartment thuggery a few years back, much less this latest stuff. But the saddest thing about him not taking the high road and resigning before being fired is that the stuff he did which I still believe to be completely untainted (academics, for instance) will be that much more difficult for the world to remember.

My formative fan years were ‘82 and on; especially ’86. That’s the image I want to keep of Paterno – the guy whose players got an education and acted right. The guy who would do right even when it was inconvenient for him (see Enis, Curtis and especially Jurevicius, Joe). That’s the hero I used to have.

Right now the image is really cloudy – and it didn’t get any clearer in the preliminary hearing, despite what some are rationalizing away – it actually confirmed he knew more than most people are willing to admit, and gives less cover for explanations which are exculpatory.

by M1EK on Jan 11, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

thank you...

I too have a hard time reconciling this. Don’t know that I can totally bury him. I understand the actions you wanted him to take, but I don’t know if I can hold him to that standard. This was a perfect storm of failure.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 11, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

a close friend and former teammate

said to me when this was all breaking “I believe at a different time in his life, Joe would have handled this differently”

hard to disagree with him

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Jan 12, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Honest question.

And if you plead the fifth I’ll understand.

I believe that Paterno cut Sandusky loose after the 1998 incident despite the fact no charges came of it. Agree or disagree?

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I do not believe that. No.

I think Jerry and Joe were butting heads about things (coaching things), and during that time period the wheels were coming off of Jerry’s reality bus. I think all this alleged sexual deprivation stuff was accelerating and he saw retirement as an easier way to manifest his sick goals.

I’m completely speculating of course, but I picture it happening like this for some reason.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Jan 12, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't believe Joe pushed him out because of any rumours

Because it just doesn’t fit with how things transpired.

a) If Joe was trying to protect the reputation of the program, himself, or even Jerry, just cutting him loose wasn’t going to accomplish that. It didn’t reduce the chances of one of his crimes, past or future, from coming to light and tarnishing the program. Joe would be smart enough to see that. If anything, letting him retire increased the odds of this blowing up.

b) If Joe was simply disgusted by the guy, but didn’t want to leak the really bad stuff, he wouldn’t have let him hang around. Joe could have prevented him from having his own office near the football facilities or from having his own key. Joe is not as powerful as the idiots think, but I think he did have power over the Lasch building.

As Hbeach08 says, it’s far more likely that they just weren’t getting along and I’d add that by that point, Joe was no doubt confident in Bradley’s ability to step up.

by reedjohnmiller on Jan 12, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Devil's advocate

because while I think it possible, I don’t think it most likely that Paterno knew about 1998:

IF Paterno knew about 1998, the retirement deal COULD have been “retire and we won’t make a big deal about what happened in 1998, as long as you promise to never do it again”. Lots of people back then would still have foolishly believed such a promise – a lot of the current knowledge that pedophiles are practically incurable wasn’t as common then.

by M1EK on Jan 12, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

certainly possible

I just don’t get the feel it went down like that.

I’m not sure if we’ll ever now how it went down…only a small number will I’m afraid.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Jan 12, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Paterno has stated under oath

that he had no information of the 98 investigation.

Considering he is not being charged for purjury… this should be enough evidence to debunk any theory that he knew about it.

"Publicity is like poison. It doesn't hurt unless you swallow it."

Joe Paterno

by The Heel on Jan 14, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I can agree with that....

but also, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that if Curley and Schultz simply advised the chief reporting to Schutlz to start an investigation, Paterno is a guy who put right before program. Now I just want to know what Paterno, Schultz and Curley said to each other about it from April 2002 until the GJ investigation.

by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 12, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I am actually not religious.

But I really enjoyed reading your comment. Thanks.

"my dad says Michigan used to be good"

by hbeach08 on Jan 12, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I also am not religious.

But sometimes, those religious people say something right, even in spite of themselves. I’m reminded today of the movie Rudy, where Rudy asked a Priest a question about how it would all end. His answer was; “My son, I lived a lot of years, and in that time I’ve learned only two undeniable truths. One, there is a god, and two, I’m not him”.

The moral vagaries of my chosen profession (among other things) lead me to believe that I am, in point of fact, the least judgmental person on the planet Earth. I’m not certain whether or not there is a god, but I’m quite sure that if there is, I’m not him.

I tend to use the “were your actions reasonable at the time” standard, coupled with “have you learned anything from an honest mistake”. That’s basically how I roll.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I dig it
I tend to use the "were your actions reasonable at the time" standard, coupled with "have you learned anything from an honest mistake". That’s basically how I roll.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

While were speculating about Mike McQ

My guess is that, right or more likely wrong, the AG coached him up on his testimony contributing to his contradictory statements. Second, on that Friday night in the locker room, he walks in, hears the noises and thinks someone is getting in on in the shower. Much to his shock he finds Sandusky and the kid and jumps to a very disturbing conclusion.

Now for the non-speculation, Big Red was abundantly clear that he considered Shultz to be the police. Obviously, with the benefit of hindsight, he was wrong. I’d be curious to know if he had any clue as to Shultz’ accurate job description at that time.

Striving for Success with Honor

by Frank O'Brien on Jan 12, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Then why do you keep going?

You know what, don’t answer me, I don’t care what your rationalization is. I just want to see sports news, and have some random chats with people around the country that love PSU.

Don’t want to get back into any of this shit until the trals are all over and everyone has spoken on the record. even then I might not, since it doesn’t help me out persoanlly to argue about it, and don’t want to anymore, it is too tiring.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin

by AriesGD on Jan 11, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Night, gang.

Have to get some beauty sleep so I can explain why I am 2.4% off-target on my year-to-date budget. The fact that I am favorable did not get me out of the meeting . . .

"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.

"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."

by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 11, 2012 9:53 PM EST reply actions  

If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 11, 2012 10:17 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

You bet!

If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 13, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

This is my life.

Except the cat crawls up on my lap, then I throw it at the wall, then it comes back in ten minutes.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 12, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

My recently acquired kittens are somehow really good at stepping exactly on the power button on my laptop.

Although I’m pretty responsible for them being on there at all. I routinely catch them watching my cursor, and every so often I’ll play along for a couple minutes.

I’m just glad my TV is high enough off the ground that they can’t get to it. They are extremely interested in catching the cursor every time I turn the Wii on.

by dbl5030 on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Just for the record

I hadn’t read far enough down this thread to realize how crazy it got in the middle…. oh well.

Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson

by belbijou on Jan 12, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, ain't that the truth.

I love BSD because of the tangents. Even the ones I don’t understand.

by CvilleLion on Jan 12, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

YAIS!

NEED MOAR TANGENTS!!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoa

Paige workin the internet slang.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I've been hanging around EDSBS too much.

They’re a bad influence. LOL!

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 13, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

By in large you are correct here

and it’s absolutely easy to see the one disruptive force that turned this excellent and thoughtful discussion into a pissing match all about ONE SINGLE CONTRARIAN who’s goal was to make it all about him. We are complicit in allowing this to happen but without that single participant the civility and intelligence of the discussion would have remained impeccable.

Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......

by aurabass on Jan 12, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Lighten Up Frances!

This is, after all, the INTERNETS! The freak show is part of the attraction.
After all, this is going to turn out to be a tempest in a teapot.
It’s our teapot, but, at the end of the day, it is not going to kill anyone.

My proud Penn State will come out of this tempest strong and true.
And nothing but long-term good will be the result of the process.
This, I believe.

For The Glory,
Joe From Boalsburg

Son of an Infidel.....Eater of Vegetables!

by joefromboalsburg on Jan 12, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You have to live in a tea pot (Happy Valley)...

… to appreciate the destruction of the tempest (the media). Us locals, for the most part, don’t give a Flying F*** what they say or report, mostly because we’ve heard it and digested it 6 months earlier.

A trip to any State College manicurist or hair dresser on any day of the week will get you more information than the Patriot News, the CDT, ESPN, CDT, the FBI or the KGB. For the record, I got my nails done two days ago, so, I’m up to speed.

These BSD posts, however, have all be an entertaining read and Jesse., along with many others over the past weeks and months, wrote a very good, informative one today.

by jessedotsmom on Jan 12, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of manicurists...

Have you ever gotten an infection in a toe after a pedicure? My wife’s been limping around the past two days b/c of a cuticle removal gone bad, which prompted me to, regretfully, learn more about what exactly a cuticle is and how its removal is the fundamental action in a pedicure.

Now I’m all conflicted about something new I’ve learned that women go through for appearances.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

As the Virginia Slims ads used to say:

“You’ve come a long way baby.”

They don’t even bind feet in China anymore, mostly.

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein

by SubLime on Jan 13, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I personally have not...

… but, I’ve been going to the same gal/close friend & fellow foodie for 30 years. She spends a lot of time training her employees, and clipping cuticles is a tricky business… they should be gently pushed back first, then clipped from the top without grazing, or, much worse, piercing the skin.

That being said, I have heard of it happening to others elsewhere, one of which is a tennis friend of mine and it’s a guy.

Hope you wife feels better soon… make her some Johnny Cakes!

by jessedotsmom on Jan 13, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Are you kidding,

pedicures are generally great! At least the spa pedicures are. It’s not just for looks! I had that happen on a finger during a manicure, but it didn’t get infected.

Tom Bradley for PSU Head Coach!

by Paige2PSU on Jan 13, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Going to to get your hair done...

… or for a manicure or pedicure in Happy Valley…

is priceless these days.

by jessedotsmom on Jan 13, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

This thread

has become a microcosm of BSD.

The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.

We (Still) Are...

by PSU_Buch on Jan 13, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed.

I just threw out my shoulder patting myself on the back.

...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

by jesse. on Jan 14, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Memorable manicure two decades ago . . . {tangent}

While living in Metro DC, expecting our first child, getting a manicure: I’m listening to a chatty technician. Later, much … I find her business card again and she is Lorena Bobitt (wife/ex John Wayne Bobitt) [UEwwuphf]! I was off manicures for a VERY long time. Wish we’d kept up with that card (might/could have sold $$).

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me'.
Erma Bombeck

by ComfortHePuHuTh on Jan 13, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

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