Blow-by-Blow of Philadelphia Town Hall
[Bumped, a very good account of last night's event in King of Prussia. If anyone attended the Anthony Lubrano / Franco Harris event last night, details would also be appreciated. - C.G.]
I attended the Town Hall meeting hosted by President Rodney Erickson this evening, and I wanted to share my impressions of the event for those who could not attend.
At a high level, the common themes were what you would expect: the firing of Joe Paterno and what plans were in place to try to make things right with the Paterno family, and the actions of the Board of Trustees and what is being done to address those actions. Erickson came off as honest for the most part; he may not have provided all the detail we wanted and he may have ducked a few questions a bit, but his answers did not feel like lies.
The main complaint I had coming away from the night regarded the handling of questions related to the actions of the Board. Specifically, Erickson was asked about the decision-making process in the Paterno's firing; his answer was that he could not comment on it because he was not in the meeting and that it was a question for the Board. He never provided any real information about how we can ask questions of the Board, nor did anyone ask him that follow-up question.
I've included a question-by-question synopsis here; some of the questions are repeats, but it covers everything asked in the order it was asked. I apologize for the length.
Erickson was introduced and walked out to applause - not overwhelming, but polite. He spoke for 5-10 minutes, stating that he accepted the presidency with a plan for "openness and communication," and that his hope for tonight was to provide answers and to listen.
He was first asked why he said "yes" when offered the job by the Board of Trustees. Erickson said he has spent the last 34 years trying to build "Penn State into an academic powerhouse." He wants to be able to show that it is a great academic and athletic university, and he felt it owed it to Penn State to try to help.
A member of the crowd then referred to Paterno as the most important Penn Stater ever. This was met by a loud applause. He asked what plans were in place to "make things right" for the Paterno family. Erickson acknowledged the importance of both Joe and Sue to Penn State, both academically and athletically. He wants to find a way to honor them appropriately but has not yet been able to spend any time finding that way.
Erickson was asked why there was a rush to judgment in November, but we are asked to be patient with the Board of Trustees now. Erickson stated that on November 10 or 11, seven of the top 20 searched terms on the Internet were related to Penn State. It was "virtually impossible" to get any positive messages out, and he said that it will be a task for all of us to get positive messages out to our peers. This did not answer the question asked.
When asked what Penn State was doing to prepare for the media onslaught when the Sandusky trial begins, he stated that he is upset that the media is referring to this as a "Penn State scandal." This scandal is not Penn State, he said, which was met with applause. Penn State is the students and alumni all around the world. He did not directly address the question about the university's preparation for the media when the Sandusky trial begins.
Anthony Lubrano was then given a microphone and was met by a collective gasp when he stated who he was. He said he spoke with Joe Paterno Tuesday and, in an unfortunate Paterno impression, said that Joe told him, "This is not about me; this is about our school." Lubrano very directly asked Erickson why no one from the administration has called Coach Paterno since the firing and if Erickson's hiring truly reflected the administration's stated goal of transparency. Erickson stated that he wants the university to conduct a national presidential search, which is why he will end his term on June 30, 2014; he felt it would have been difficult to conduct a national search for a new president in November. He then stated that he "fully intends to sit with Joe and Sue when (he) has a few minutes and it's convenient to them."
An audience member expressed concern over the appearance of bias in having a colleague of Gov. Corbett's on the investigation committee. Erickson said that he had no reason to expect anything but objectivity, but they brought in Judge Louis Freeh as an independent investigator. The mandate given to Freeh is to investigate and make his report public; Erickson said the report will not be sanitized before publication.
Erickson was then asked a question related to the actions of the Board of Trustees. The questioner stated the handling of things was a failure in media relations, public relations, and crisis management, asking how it was possible for so many people to fail us. She asked alumni to demand all Board members step down, which was met by the loudest applause of the night, and asked Erickson's opinion on the Board's composition. The president stated that there is obviously a lot of emotion directed at the Board, but questions for them were for the Board itself to answer. He was not a member of the Board in early November, he said, so he could not comment on their deliberations. He then asked the crowd not to rush to judgment regarding the Board of Trustees, which was the only statement of the night that resulted in outright jeering.
Two more questions were asked about the actions and composition of the Board, which Erickson said needed to be addressed by the Board itself. He then said that the Board has 32 members - nine elected by alumni, nine selected by agricultural societies, six selected by business sectors, 6 appointed by the governor, and other positions (including ex-officio members) selected elsewhere. Out of the 194,000 alumni eligible to vote in the last election, only 11,000 people voted; Erickson encouraged alumni to exercise their voting right this year and in the future.
An alumnus asked what Erickson planned to do to restore independence to the office of the president so that the president and Board did not just rubber-stamp the others positions. The president said that he and the Board will undoubtedly have disagreements, but he hopes to be able to work with them to reach consensus on issues.
A pointed question was asked regarding the lack of meeting minutes made available by the Board of Trustees for their November 9 meeting and why there is no mention in the meeting minutes from the November 11 emergency meeting about the creation of investigating committees. He said, "When will we see transparency and not just hear about it?" Erickson side-stepped the question about the meeting minutes, saying he was not aware of that. He did say examples of actual transparency are in the release of his and Coach Bill O'Brien's contract terms earlier this week, as well as more than 3,000 pages of budget information available online. The information is out there, he said; we were encouraged to look for it.
Erickson was asked if he planned to apologize to Paterno, and he said that he would need to speak to the Board of Trustees about that because it was the Board that decided to fire Paterno.
An audience member asked how he is supposed to speak positively about Penn State when the only news out there is bad news. Erickson stated that we should stress the academics and athletics of Penn State, that our student-athletes consistently post high graduation rates. "We're not going to apologize for being a great university," he said. "We're not going to let what one individual did destroy this great university."
An alumna asked about the posting by Ben Novak last week (http://www.bennovak.net/2012/01/reflections-of-a-former-trustee/), asking if Erickson was willing to lead an effort for a shared power structure between the Board of Trustees, Faculty Senate, the President, and Student Government. Erickson said he expected to have "significant dialogue" with faculty and students and that he plans on holding open student forums every semester. He then moved on to the next question without providing an answer to the question asked.
In an effort to lighten the mood, the moderator then asked Erickson what ice cream flavor he thinks will most accurately describe the next two years. After someone yelled "Peachy Paterno," Erickson said he doubts anyone will ever name a flavor after him, and that he thinks the flavor would be "something with chocolate."
An alumnus asked who will pay for Paterno's legal bills since he was "thrown under the bus." Erickson said that if Paterno faces legal actions stemming from anything related to the university, Paterno's bills will be paid for by the university.
Despite the fact Erickson continually said this is a Sandusky scandal and not a Penn State scandal, he was asked if he thinks the "rapidity of the Paterno and Spanier firings scream ‘Penn State scandal'." He that because the investigation was in another county and dealt with an employee who had retired 12 years prior, there was no expectation among the administration that the investigation would be targeted at Penn State. He said the Board will have to answer for its decisions; the Board felt it needed to take decisive action under the circumstances and it made the decision based on the information it had.
Erickson was asked how alumni can get involved by more than just donating. He asked that we share positive stories of Penn State. The education at Penn State has not changed and it is "still world-class." Admissions applications continue to track 3-4 percent above last year's record number, and it is important for prospective students to understand the value of a Penn State education. Additionally, he asked us to continue supporting Penn Staters by helping them obtain internships and jobs, and the number of companies for the Spring Career Fair is up 11 percent from last year. One company went as far as to say it felt the scandal will make Penn State graduates even more attractive because students had to go through this.
Another question was asked about the Board: why was no statement made when the story broke and why was the first statement to fire Paterno and Spanier? Erickson again said that the Board would need to answer that question.
An alumnus asked Erickson to show "true leadership" by asking for a change in how Board members are selected and telling them, "Let's do things differently." He answered by saying the University Charter bestows all responsibility in all aspects of university business upon the Board. The Board then delegates some responsibilities, such as having the faculty set the curriculum. Erickson then said, "They are fundamentally responsible for running the university. I'm not their boss; they are my boss." When pressed, he added the discussion about Board structure and operation are and will be taking place, and that he will voice his opinion. He did not state what his opinion is.
An audience member said he felt like the university's honesty and code of ethics have been violated. Erickson said he wants to establish a culture where no one is afraid to report if they have seen or if they suspect something has occurred. He wants the community to feel free and protected to make information known.
Erickson mentioned that the university donated $1.5 million of its bowl money to two child sexual abuse charities. He was asked what impact those donations would have on the football budget. There will be an impact, he said, but he didn't want to take money from donations intended for other purposes. He also said legal fees will not be paid via taxpayer, donor, or tuition money; the university has insurance against legal action that it plans to use.
The next question received three separate rounds of applause. Erickson was told that it is important that the Board of Trustees attend these events with him and was asked if they would step up and face questions. He was also asked if he would tell the Board Chairman that he should be present at future events; he answered with a simple "yes."
A questioner said he felt the Board of Trustees' actions made Paterno a scapegoat and asked Erickson to say that Penn State was wrong in that decision. Erickson said the firing was a Board decision, and when pressed, said that he did support that decision.
Another question was asked regarding why the Board was not providing honest answers to our questions. Erickson said that investigations are ongoing and that those investigations, combined with the fact he does not have all the answers, prevent him from answering every question he is asked. He did not address the Board's answers to questions.
Erickson was asked how a new president and athletic director will be named. He indicated that there will be a national search committee that will draft a job description, identify a pool of candidates, narrow down that pool, interview candidates, and make a selection. He did not know who will chair the search committees.
Erickson was asked if he would be our liaison and ask the Board why there are no meeting minutes posted from the November 9 meeting. He said that he would.
An alumna stated her concern that Harrisburg has made Penn State a "quasi-public" school by cutting its funding. She asked what as being done to ensure that the scandal does not influence Harrisburg's opinion of Penn State or its actions toward us. Erickson stated that he has not found any hostility toward Penn State in his meetings with legislators. He conceded that the state is in a difficult budget situation, and that appropriation cuts "really are a shared problem in many ways."
The final question asked if Penn State has accepted any fewer students compared to last year; Erickson said the difference was in the neighborhood of 10 students.
Erickson closed the night by telling the crowd that they shared a lot of the same questions as the group in Pittsburgh Wednesday night. He said Penn State is moving ahead, and students are moving ahead; in speaking to them, he said they came back from Winter Break ready to move on. "This is a great university," he said. "We and you need to do everything we can to show that we are still Penn State."
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Franco Harris had his own meeting in Philly too (same hotel)
by jebatzel on Jan 13, 2012 1:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Quick response about Franco and his "after-party"
It honestly felt more like an angry mob than a productive meeting. I was unimpressed.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
"Let the media write the final chapter"...
I’m not in favor of Franco’s ANGER response to this whole thing, but I think that is a very relevant point. Penn State needs to start defending itself from false media criticism.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Franco's in a unique position here.
How many other people got fired for nothing more than publicly supporting a mentor and friend?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not for nothing...
He was reinstated. I’m not sure how many people actually knew that.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I watched most of it online last night.
Erickson seemed like a decent guy put in a horrible position. He didn’t unilaterally decide to fire Paterno, or squash the investigations of child abuse, or any of that stuff. He’s an academic guy, and he’s right to remind people of PSU’s academic achievements.
I was thoroughly embarrassed about the constant Paterno questions. I understanding asking one or two of them, but there was a definite sense that the crowd cared much more about Joe Paterno than the alleged crimes, cover-up, and justice for the victims involved. For those looking at this event from outside the PSU family, the constant Paterno questioning (which was probably 35-40% of the overall questions) showed the world exactly what I think most of us have been trying to avoid. The focus appeared to be on the football program and the Paterno cult of personality instead of trying to make amends, raise awareness, and help those abused.
Basically, it made the media who have been criticizing the PSU community for caring about football and Joe Paterno instead of the crimes and victims appear absolutely correct. There were a lot of really good questions, as well, but I was otherwise appalled.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 6:30 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
They are reacting the same way as the media
I would gather there are/was so many Paterno question because the media and the BOT made this more about Paterno then the victims. When the BOT fired Joe and ESPN,Pennlive, etc put his picture on the screen every time they talked about JS it became about Joe. I agree that this story is bigger then Joe, its about the victims of this SOB but you cant blame the crowd for asking about him.
by PSU_sincebirth on Jan 13, 2012 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I know what you're saying, but I can definitely blame them for it.
They have a chance to ask the PSU president a question about how the University is run, how it mishandled one of the worst college scandals ever, what it’s going to do in the future to prevent similar crimes, etc. Instead, it’s Paterno, Paterno, Paterno, and I think it shows that way too many people — alumni, not otherwise unaffiliated PSU football fans! — care more about a football coach than all of the other much more important issues at stake here.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It sounded to me like all of those questions did get asked,
and it was a mix of questions about the board and mishandling the crisis and about Paterno. It would have been nice to hear a few more questions on what other steps PSU is taking to prevent child abuse in the future, but I didn’t feel it was that off.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
As respects PSU...
in this matter, what else is there really to ask about? The football program is the most visible aspect of PSU.
Sigh.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 13, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The AG made this case about PSU and that should be discussed
Read the Press Release again
over 80% of her only press conference is about Penn State and there is barely a mention of the victims or Sandusky.
Between this and the lies in the Grand Jury Presentment the Attorney General has almost single handedly made Penn State the villain and brought down a shitstorm of negativity on your alma mater.
Of course Penn Stater’s care about the victims and they have given millions to help but they don’t have to be apologists at Town Hall meetings about the university.
The AG made it about PSU and Paterno and the Media took what she gave them and created the media frenzy that made PSU = to Sandusky
This meeting was about Penn State – not the victims of a former employee. It is not the place for a review of the victims. It is the place to review the actions of the BoT and the administration.
The Attorney General says the situation at Penn State was EQUALLY SIGNIFICANT? What a crock that is. An unidentified alleged victim 2 situation is equally significant to 10 brave young men who came forward to testify?
Bullcrap.
She says “A LARGE PART” of the case involves Sandusky but does not mention a single other victim or Sandusky again after launching into 11 paragraphs about Penn State.
This is an ongoing investigation and this is also a grand jury investigation, which means there are some details we cannot discuss at this time.
As we noted earlier, this is a case about a serial sexual predator accused of using his position within community to prey on numerous young boys for more than a decade.
A large part of this case revolves around the actions of Jerry Sandusky and the criminal charges that have been filed against him for the alleged sexual assaults he committed on eight young boys who were victimized over a period stretching from 1994 to 2009.
Equally significant, however, is the role that several top Penn State University administrators, Athletic Director Tim Curley and Vice President of Business and Finance Gary Schultz, played in this matter, allegedly failing to reportsuspected child abuse and later providing false testimony and false statements to the grand jury that was investigating this case.
I am appalled by the Attorney General and Frank Noonan and their obvious and successful attempt to make this entire affair about Penn State and the damage that has done to Paterno and Penn State. It is totally unfair and indefensible.
Complaining about PSU alumni’s concern over this situation seems bizarre.
Penn State did nothing more that try to assist a good charity by making facilities available in support of underprivileged children. Penn State did not make Jerry Sandusky a monster and no one at Penn State knowingly assisted him.
Curley and Schultz were fooled by Jerry Sandusky as were so many great people in the State of Pennsylvania who gave 2.7 million a year to The Second Mile and regarded him as a caring and wonderful man who was dedicated to helping kids. That is not a crime or even a failing. It is a tragedy. But Penn State is being made to pay for the Attorney Generals attack on your good name and reputation and it is only right and proper that Penn State Alumni should talk about that at these Town Halls
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Jan 13, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think the time has passed and we should stop worrying what outsiders think about our reaction
There were too many Joe questions, but especially for alums who feel as though Joe was made the scape goat, I can understand the need to vent. If not for too many questions about Joe, we would be complaining about overkill on the point that the BoT had no plan or the lack of transparency/communication. There are only so many topics to cover. I think as long as the topic of forming a conference with Pitt is never raised again, we’re not too far off the mark in this ongoing conversation.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Jan 13, 2012 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I'd agree if the Joe questions were entirely about Joe.
The way I see it, though, is that the treatment of Paterno is a very visible example of the BOT’s way of conducting its business generally, thus it is just a vehicle for discussing the BOT.
…at least for some of the Paterno questions anyway. I’ll agree that some of them are purely asked out of loyalty to the man.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Keep reading...
Others have expanded on my thought at great length below.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
The media didn't care when
the university and the alumni stepped up to try and help the victims, or when they tried to turn the media narrative towards the victims and how to be helpful and not hurt future victims coming forward. The media and public ignored us then, so who cares now? I think all the questioning is perfectly valid since it only made a horrible situation much, much worse. IF you are appaled by that it is a personal problem.
by FB6244 on Jan 13, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
This cannot be stated enough...
I saw basically zero media coverage outside of PSU-related outlets about
1) The candlelight vigil
2) The $500k raised by alumni for RAINN in a matter of 3 weeks
3) The University donating its bowl money to support abuse
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
To be fair,
I had stopped listening to outside media coverage by Veteran’s Day.
But yeah, the bits and pieces I have caught since then haven’t been far outside the themes established between the sixth and ninth of November.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I got my issue of The Communicator the other day
(Alum mag for Comm majors) and I was really impressed with the pictures of the candlelight vigil. I had no idea how big it was or how many people were there, and that just underlines your point of ZERO positive press even where there were postive events taking place.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As a matter of fact
Adande from ESPN tweeted that he hoped they didn’t tip over a news van during the candle light vigil. There was no interest in reporting anything positive that the PSU community was doing, and obviously a select few were hell bent on trying to make everything negative in any way possible
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Jan 13, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I remember that.
Adande and every single person employed at ESPN can go fuck themselves.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Jan 13, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 12 recs
Cannot agree with you more
Even if it is uncivil.
Respectfully, if you didn't see coverage of this, you weren't looking.
Hell, if you search for “Penn State candlelight vigil”, the first page has articles from ABC, the Washington Post, CBS, NY Daily News, SB Nation, PennLive, and others. The bowl money story gets hits from Yahoo, LA Times, Bloomberg, NBC Sports, and ESPN.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The RAINN thing was kind of underreported, I'll say that.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It was actually reported well for a few days
but to be I guess “fair”, the Sandusky scandal still rules the roost. Since it’s still unresolved, coverage leans heavily in that direction.
And ESPN’s coverage is the most venomous.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 13, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps my perspective is a bit biased.
I’m in Philly and they only seem to give two shits about PSU when something bad happens.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
That is *absolutely* true. I've lived in that bubble.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
So you get my skewed perspective then?
Its ridiculous. I don’t understand why this city’s media has such little respect for the biggest name in the state. There are tons of alum in the area – perhaps the key. How else are you gonna get @FAKEWIPCALLER all riled up?
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I totally get it.
I lived down there for a few years. I was originally born there. I get it. The WIP hosts are generally uninformed about Philly sports, nevermind the two or three times per year they bother to talk about Penn State.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Where were you born after that, Chris?
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
BOOM.
Yeah, I combined “I’m originally from there” with “I was born there”. I say and write things like that constantly.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
No worries --
it made me laugh!
Quiet tonight? I’ve been reading through this thread for awhile, so don’t know what the “hot” one is tonight.
Wife has been reading for quite awhile — now has her own handle. Watch out for two of us now!
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I saw it,
I guess I’m saying I felt the coverage in the magazine gave more detail and better pictures that exemplified how big it really was.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
The crowd asked a lot of Paterno questions because he is 'the face of the franchise".
The university is trying to make things right by contributing money and resources to child abuse causes. The Paterno firing still has yet to have any hint of resolution or concrete answers from the BOT. Alums want answers and actions.
by denise60134 on Jan 13, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Joe's Treatment is a Visceral Pain For Many of Us.
Much of my personal anger about this comes from the treatment of Joe. A late night phone call…really? That’s loyalty for ya. It is a specific example of the Board’s “Oh Dear God What Do We Do???” mentality on the whole situation.
I’m sure that many of those same alumni who asked Joe questions had others too. The Joe questions are just first in line. I know that a reconciliation with the Paterno’s is high on my list.
In my opinion, Alumni loyalty to Joe has nothing to do with caring more about football than abused kids. Its about loyalty to a great person. We know Joe embodies everything good about Penn State. He’s more than a football coach, he’s a good person. WE know that, don’t we?
This is a complicated situation, that requires hard thought. There was some great work done in that direction on this Blog. However, most people don’t want to think hard. Its so much easier to feel. So emotional reactions dominate our society. That’s the secret to talk radio…Rush Limbaugh built an empire teaching folks to feel hate and enmity. E$PN just took a page out of his book.
I refuse to allow an E$PN narrative to force me to abandon one of my role models. Its hard to do. Most things worth while are.
So, if you are embarrassed, I’m sorry. If you think that talking about some new enlightened view on child abuse is more important, I’m sorry.
We are the people that let our actions speak, right? That’s what Lavar said, on the steps of Old Main, during the candle light vigil. I drove from Florida to be there for that. We are the ones who won’t ever let this happen again…not because we say the right words or wear pins or ribbons or wrist bands, but because of what we do. I know this because that is the culture of Penn State.
We’ve already donated millions of dollars to child abuse. I hope we will all continue to donate and that we will help agitate for changes to prevent anything like this from happening again. If that’s not enough for E$PN and the world…tough shit.
But I refuse to allow this to be Joe’s legacy.
by 87Townie on Jan 13, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 17 recs
Well said sir.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You can't blame the questioning...
The students and alum feel that there was an injustice perpetrated against the face of the university. I feel the amount of questions would have been much less had there actually been forthright answers to them. Erickson constantly deferring to the Board was merely sidestepping the issue which the audience didn’t accept. He’s the President – he should have the answers as to why the Board made the decisions it made. Especially given that he knows that those questions will be asked. This whole plausible deniability angle just furthers the whole lack of transparency.
by JarredK on Jan 13, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Different take
I agree that there were a lot of Paterno questions, and I was a little disappointed that there too much looking in the past as compared to looking to the future. My opinion of it, though, is that “the outside” looks at us and says that we don’t get it because we’re angry that the football coach was fired. What I think we should be stressing every chance we get is that we’re more angry at how a man who gave 60+ years of his life to making this university a better place and (as someone said last night) someone who is the most important Penn Stater ever was treated.
It’s not about Joe Paterno the football coach losing his job; it’s about Joe Paterno the Penn Stater and Joe Paterno the man being treated so poorly and with such a rush-to-judgment that upsets us. That’s what the media ISN’T saying, and that’s what people are angry about. Football will go on with or without Joe; how he was treated is what it seemed like people were/are stuck on.
by kflintosh on Jan 13, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 12 recs
It was truly embarrassing...
When ESPN runs clips from the Pittsburgh event and the only ones that make the air are the Paterno questions. The Paterno stuff and legacy will sort itself out. The important questions are the ones about fixing the university and truly getting transparency.
I think you are spot on Chris.
I agree that there were too many
JoePa questions…but I think that even if there was only one JoePa questions asked…that would be the only clip that ESPN showed anyway. They have made the narrative about him and latch on to every tiny piece of anything that has Paterno in it.
by Jeannine Pinaula on Jan 13, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
It's because ESPN still thinks this is a sports story.
Why the hell is ESPN even covering this anyway?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha,
my favorite headline from today is on ESPN: “Penn St President blames Sandusky for scandal.”
O Rly?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
ESPN headlines: Nuclear bomb dropped on Japan! How will this affect Alabama's recruiting?!
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
Yes, I am on twitter.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jan 13, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
It helps to look at ESPN for what it truly is: Sports Entertainment
Even by sports journalism standards, they suck. But they are sports journalists. They know sports. Their expertise is sports. They really know nothing else but what jocks do on and off the field. Which is why so many articles start with the cliche “on and off the field”.
They are out of their league when it comes to serious, reality altering issues such as child abuse. It is beyond their dreamy, awe-struck, celebrity driven vision to see the complex nuances of human tragedy. And they disguise that by braying like horses who can’t see outside of their horse blinders. They whinny and snicker their way out of explaining an event they cannot comprehend.
I long for the days of CNNSI channel.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 13, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Somehow I think Nick Charles and Jim Huber (both recently deceased) might have caught more of the nuance here.
At least they did with other stories over the years.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Totally agree and have from the start
Since this began, the problem has been that there are two kinds of reporters covering it.
Sports people, who know jack shit about anything outside of the sports stuff – even guys like Jeremy Schapp seem to be out of their depth.
Non-sports people – some of them know the legal stuff and what not, but they don’t know shit about college football or Joepa or Penn State or State College although many of them think they do.
The only guy writing on this “nationally” that I like is Mike Weinreb on Grantland. He was a year ahead of me at State High and he went to Penn State. Really gets it.
Oh, and surprisingly, Ron Cook has been fairly sensible in some of his columns on this. I always thought he was a yinzer moron of the first order, and maybe he is, but he’s been ok on this.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
CNNSI also showed indoor lacrosse
Randomly. I like that.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
What questions would you have proposed to express concern about the victims?
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
If we want to help the victims...
beyond the cash donations, the best thing to do is have anyone within the University provide whatever testimony they can that will help with the prosecution.
Since that’s not even really under debate (and if it were, we’d have bigger issues to discuss) the topic of discussion transitions to something that is debatable…
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
For the most part I agree with you, Chris
The treatment of Paterno by the university and the board was crappy, there’s no arguing it. But there are bigger issues (even apart from the .
More importantly (to me, anyway), the reputation of the university has been greatly harmed by the inaction of BoT members and university administrators when they could have done something, anything, leading up to the grand jury findings being released. For me, that’s why I would think the BoT should be overhauled, why Spanier, Curley, Schultz, et al should be fired. Not because they mistreated our venerable, loyal football coach.
When angry alumni continually berate the new president with questions that amount to “How will you make it up to Joe?”, what can we expect other than outside entities thinking “These people have their priorities all screwed up.”
Also, I don’t know Lubrano, and maybe he’s a super intelligent guy, but why did he have to do a Paterno impression??
@Kunk7
by Kunk on Jan 13, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
(open ended parentheticals
*(even apart from the obvious bigger issues of the alleged victims)
@Kunk7
I agree and disagree. I was hoping for more variety with the questions, specifically about what their plans are moving forward and how they intend on making amends to the community and putting this behind us. Didn’t happen. I also wish people had used more reason instead of emotion and thought through their questions.
I understand why everyone is stuck on Joe as that is where the story got personal for all of us and where we truly lost any trust we may have had with the administration. We can’t move forward or at least go very far until they prove we can trust them once again. There continual refusal to address this issue is only adding fuel to the fire.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Jan 13, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Your second paragraph was a common theme
The most common sentiment I heard from attendees before and after the event, is that they are looking for some sort of closure, and can’t move on until they get it. They want answers about everything, but especially Joe because if they can’t trust the University to handle it’s longest tenured and most well known employee, with loyalty, dignity, and respect, they can’t trust the University to treat anyone that way.
Every person I talked to last night at the event wants to move on, but almost all felt they couldn’t until this chapter is closed, and they are reassured that the Penn State they attended, especially what many view as core values like dignity, honor, loyalty, and respect, still exists and will not change. And to them that starts by getting the truth about what happened to Joe, and if warranted, getting an apology from the board for it.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
by LegalLion on Jan 13, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Meta, meta, meta, can't you see; sometimes your concepts just hypnotize me
For those looking at this event from outside the PSU family, the constant Paterno questioning (which was probably 35-40% of the overall questions) showed the world exactly what I think most of us have been trying to avoid.
This has got me trippin, again, on who we’re all writing for here. I usually think about it in the rare times I organize a fanpost—who’s the audience?—but as a matter of habit don’t when playing in the comment sandbox. I can see now, tho, that you in your role here are often hyper-aware of it. It’s a weird thing. To have a PSU Family discussion, in public for all non-Family to see. And that’s not to say that’s the only way it is. We dart in and out of internal/external discussions pretty regularly and some of us sometimes get concerned about the directions the dialogues are going in and how that looks up at 30,000 feet. So I think I get that part of your remarks.
But this:
The focus appeared to be on the football program and the Paterno cult of personality instead of trying to make amends, raise awareness, and help those abused.This drawing of lines in the sand, like there’s some fundamental exclusivity, is so terrifically unhelpful. Unhelpful to the PSU Family dialogue and unhelpful to the internal/external dialectic as well. I mean, I think I get it. That was your impression AND you want non-Penn Staters to see that not all are focused mostly on Joe AND you understand one of the primary non-Penn Stater criticisms of the collective debrief. And I get that it’s impossible to, in every single post, acknowledge the inherent complexity of intertwining issues & topics in this whole thing.
But, boiled down, you just put into one sentence one of the primary PSU Family criticisms of how this whole thing is being characterized by the outside and by the msm.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
by jtothep on Jan 13, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
It wasn’t a “Penn State Scandal” but it was addressed by firing Paterno, the most prominent Penn Stater? It doesn’t add up, and it does leave a lot of unanswered questions.
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Jtothep...you got it exactly right
The line was drawn by the media. I refuse to acknowledge it.
That’s tough, because we’re being judged by how we reacted to the Joe firing. If you’re for it, you’re clearly not a child molester.
But god forbid you think Joe wasn’t guilty…that he acted honorably with the information he had at the time and within the framework of the University’s system.
by 87Townie on Jan 13, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I like this comment a lot.
Like you said, this isn’t a “behind closed doors” discussion, but that doesn’t affect the way I write here. You’re getting the same thing I say to my father or brother on the phone, or to someone in my personal life who doesn’t even know I write about this stuff. And I understand why some Penn Staters look at the commentary from outside our little bubble and say “screw them, we don’t care what they think.” (See also: HATERZ.) And that’s simutaneously practical and stupid — not all opinions from outside the bubble are to be disregarded just like not all opinions from inside the bubble should be automatically accepted. Just because Sports By Brooks is trolling the crap out of us doesn’t mean someone else’s opinion is invalid.
The second part. Look, what I saw last night were many very concerned alumni. Some of them were very interested in getting more information about how the Board/PSU operates, how things can change, etc. Others just wanted their pound of flesh on behalf of Joe Paterno, which I found both sad and interesting because we’ve been conditioned to think that’s the last thing Joe Paterno would want us to be concerned with. My (obvious) opinion is that the focus shouldn’t be on Paterno. The manner in which the Board conducted itself in making the decision to fire him? Sure. Fine. But that’s not really what I heard last night in most Paterno questions. It was “when will you apologize to Paterno”, “how will you make things right with Paterno”, etc.
I find these priorities to be wildly misplaced, as someone who is not only an alumnus, but from what is very much a Penn State family.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
May I try to take a stab at this
Having read your comments since November when I first came here, I think I can at least say I have a pretty good handle on where you stand with this whole thing. Bear in mind I have no ties to Penn State other than being an admirer of Joe Paterno and a football fan, let me try to at least state my concerns as if I were an alum.
First of all, as it should be, the victims, or alleged victims to be fair (innocent until proven guilty), of Jerry Sandusky should be the first concern. Obviously. However, this is not a Penn State problem, this a human being/ society problem. I have seen the Penn State community trying to make a difference in regards to child abuse since this all started, but this doesnt figure into my concerns in regards to Penn State.
In regards too Penn State.
Yes, there are alot of questions regarding Paterno. But I think for alot of alumni, myself included if I were, this was never about Joe Paterno the football coach, this is about Joe Paterno the man. Somebody that his given everything of himself for 60+ years to the University. I realize some people have thrown all that into the trash bin after this all came out, and also some people want to wait and judge once more comes out, but I think for most people its hard to just throw aside everything he has done and still continue to maintain a level of respect for him, the man. The problem was, by their actions, the BOT appeared to have thrown everything in the trash bin and gave the appearance this was a Joe Paterno problem and not a Penn State problem. The problem with that is, I think for most alumni and myself included if I were, whether you like it or not, Joe Paterno, the man, is everything Penn State, and they turned their back on him.
Now how this all fits into my concerns as an alumni, if I were, is that the way they treated Joe Paterno is example number 1 of how there has been a serious lack of leadership before the you know what hit the fan, while the poo was splattering everything imaginable for the first couple of weeks, and now. This didnt have to be about Jerry Sandusky/Child Abuse, this could have been anything, and that wouldnt sit real well with me if I were an alum. So by people asking about the treatment of Joe Paterno, a cursory glance makes it look like that people are more worried about a football coach and the program, but I think they are using this example of a way to question the leadership of the BOT and gauge how things may need to be changed or different moving forward for the University they love.
Thats my two cents, for what its worth.
by BRJ75 on Jan 13, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 14 recs
This -
“The problem was, by their actions, the BOT appeared to have thrown everything in the trash bin and gave the appearance this was a Joe Paterno problem and not a Penn State problem.”
I believe that this was a calculated decision. I don’t buy the “whirlword, firestorm” argument from Erickson or the board. They made an executive decision to deflect the issue on to Joe and away from the administration in order to try and hold the media and bay and limit university culpability. It worked. If I were a trustee, I honestly may have made the same decision. Especially after Joe pissed me off by dictating to me when he he was going to retire.
The problem is that people realize that if they can do that to Joe then they can do that to anyone. People are right to question that. They just don’t always know why they are asking.
(Sorry I don’t know how to block quote yet)
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Agreed.
And I think in throwing Paterno under the bus, they also violated a lot of the ideals that we value as a university. Is deflecting the media circus at Paterno realliy an honorable way to make it through this ordeal? Is an action such as this loyal to an individual that helped create who you are today?
It’s not simply because they fired Paterno that we are all outraged. Had there been evidence to support that he knowingly allowed children to be molested, there would not have been the backlash that there was. The outrage is that the BoT acted in a dishonorable, untrustworthy manner, and THAT is what I personally take issue with.
(Regarding the block quote, just highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the blue quotation marks above the text box. You can do that or click the blue quotation marks and then enter your text between the >< in the tags.)
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
It may not have been honorable,
but it was the right business decision. I don’t like it and most people don’t, but I can see how it was the right business decision.
….and not to be a pain or newb, but I don’t see any blue quotation marks?
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
What is your opinion on firing him vs. administrative leave?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Personally, I would have preferred administrative leave.
It would have saved some face for him and in the long run the university. If I read their statement correctly, that is in effect what they did. He is still employed by the university and will be paid up through when his retirement date was.
Their executive decision to make it look like they fired him was to assert control, deflect the blame onto him and not the administration, and provide a scalp for the torch and pitchfork crowd. It worked pretty well.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
And this just shows how creepy they are. They could have just stated the truth – admin leave – pushed the media out and be done with it.
It’s so infuriating.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Jan 13, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would question whether it was the correct business decision.
I’m attempting to be as objective as possible here, but firing him essentially does 2 things:
1) It validates the narrative that is already out there. This is not beneficial to Penn State as that current narrative painted Penn State in a horrible light.
2) It causes upheaval in the current customer base. Before Paterno was fired, the price for tickets to the Nebraska game was through the roof. Immediately after he was fired, the prices dropped dramatically. His immediate termination ended the enhancement that an essentially fairwell tour would have had.
I understand that allowing him to stay on would hurt Penn State’s image to the public, but it is not the public whose money Penn State relies most heavily on. If you are a fur coat company and PETA campaigns against you, you are more likely to pander to your current customers than to PETA members who will never be your customer.
From a PR standpoint is really the only perspective where firing Paterno has any real chance of being successful, and as it has been proven, that has largely failed. I think that is mostly due to the fact regarding my first point in that his firing validated the narrative the media was portraying.
Regarding the blockquote, between the title and the body of a post, there is a bold, italics, strikeout, blockquote, hyperlink and then image button. The 4th option in is the blue parenthesis.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, I guess saying it was the correct business decision is a little off.
I mean to say the board felt it was the best business decision. Whether it was right or not is definitely up for debate, but at the end of the day “It’s not personal Sonny. It’s strictly business”
Not that I hold these beliefs myself, but counterpoints could be
1. Narrative on Penn State out there is already bad. The best we can hope for now is to deflect as much of that as possible towards Joe vs. the University Administration.
2. This is just a short term view – and those ticket prices did nothing for the university, they are all secondary market so why should the board care. Executives on boards like this aren’t thinking about impacting the upcoming weekend. They are thinking much more long term.
I do agree with your analogy with PETA in a way, but I suspect a lot of the big money would rather have one person (or a couple people) take the fall than the whole insitution. If the institution is completely tainted, it is harder to get people to give millions. If it’s just Joe and a couple other administators, then the University itself has a better chance to retain their funds.
Just spitballing a few thoughts that have been dancing in my head and playing a little bit of devil’s advocate.
And thanks :
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
i'm sorry, but there is no question is was the right business decision.
even with Coach Paterno fired, there continued on Thursday and Friday rumblings about cancelling the rest of the season. On Thursday (maybe it was Wednesday), Tom Osbourn (!) publicly questioned whether Nebraska players would be safe in State College. there was serious talk about how PSU should take a “year off” from football. It’s all crazy talk now, but variously, serious people were actually espousing such positions. it wasn’t just internet talk.
and with respect, you are all forgetting how loud the media/mob was screaming.
and with respect you are all forgetting for whose head the media/mob was screaming. It’s nice to think the BOT had options about who to throw under the bus. There were no options. Two heads were demanded and both were given.
the hysteria was really frightening. had the media/mob not gotten its scalps on Wednesday night, who knows what the howling mob would have wanted in addition. maybe the nebraska game; the mob turns on Osbourn and scares him into postponing the game on personal safety grounds. cancelling home games = loss of serious money
how about a year off from football?
moreover, $$ is about the big donors. yes, us “little folk” that buy tickets and merchandise are important, but we all come and go and are basically statistics. for everyone of us that stops buying, some other “little folk” comes along to pick up the slack. however, the Surnas and other big $$ donors are the ones that really matter and we have no idea what they said or are saying. I have heard about very few who’ve actually pulled their money or stopped donating (well, really only one).
anyway, it really seems clear from the outside that the BOT did what it had to do and it was the correct business decision. really, for me, proof is in the fact that the media/mob largely disappeared by Friday and nearly vanished altogether after the nebraska game.
in the meantime, a new coach and a new media narrative.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
No offense, but I strongly disagree
and with respect, you are all forgetting how loud the media/mob was screaming.
and with respect you are all forgetting for whose head the media/mob was screaming. It’s nice to think the BOT had options about who to throw under the bus. There were no options. Two heads were demanded and both were given.
The media was screaming for heads in a complete rush to judgement based mostly on assumptions and inaccuracies. By giving them what they wanted and firing Paterno they essentially “confirmed” the narrative that all of the media outlets were presenting – despite the inaccuracies.
Had they, instead, attempted to wait for all of the facts, and attempted to control the narrative by putting the truth out there, they probably would have calmed the storm a bit. Look at Syracuse’s response to the Fine allegations and how quickly the media went away there.
PSU had 5 days to make an attempt to gain control of the situation. Actually, it took over a day for Paterno to become the central focus of the reports, and 2-3 days before the fire got really out of control. Acting quickly might have prevented them from ever getting to the point where firing Paterno might be the best option.
moreover, $$ is about the big donors. yes, us "little folk" that buy tickets and merchandise are important, but we all come and go and are basically statistics.
This is really off base. While big money guys are certainly important, the little guys are NOT statistics. Penn State has donors than any other school in the country. Most of those donors give small amounts. One or two may be a statistic, but making moves to alienate large numbers of them is a big deal. Causing 25-30% of donors to close their wallets would be a very, very bad thing for PSU’s budget.
by ppfcpp on Jan 14, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Poor proofreading.
Last paragraph should say “PSU has more donors than any other school…”
For an outsider, you seem to be pretty tapped in
a cursory glance makes it look like that people are more worried about a football coach and the program, but I think they are using this example of a way to question the leadership of the BOT and gauge how things may need to be changed or different moving forward for the University they love.
These are my exact feelings. Most Penn State fans have realized that as far as on-field results, etc. Paterno wasn’t really progressing the football program. If someone like Nick Saban or Les Miles was fired similarly, the uproar would be primarily due to the fact that he’s a great coach in his prime and that sucks for the football team.
If I’m being honest, I haven’t thought of Joe Paterno as a football coach for a good ten years. I mean, he was a football coach, but that wasn’t his main significance. He was a humanitarian, motivator, leader and living symbol of something bigger. So that’s why I think BRJ75 is onto something – it’s not so much about firing the football coach (Lord knows this is an event that many have dreamed of for quite some time now), but about the firing of a great representative of the University done in a way which throws the needle of any rational person’s bullshit-meter. While Paterno ascended to his symbolic image or “cult of personality” by virtue of his position of a football coach, it’s the symbol and leadership (well-earned, and not just for any on-field success) that is important to people and not his effect on the football program.
So when a group of people that (by all accounts except their own) screwed the pooch at every turn didn’t just unceremoniously fire Paterno, but did so in a sort of sick hyperceremony, filled with hundreds of cameras, dropped off envelopes, phone numbers etc., the problem that people have isn’t “how could you fire Coach Paterno”. It’s
1. what information went into your decision to do it?
2. why did you do it the way you did, at 10pm and via courier/phone? and
3. how can we, as other members of the community, look at the way you handled this problem (among others) and ever trust you to do the right thing? How are you fit to lead our university, if this is the type of decision you make in moments of pressure? How can we, in good conscience, allow you to continue to sit, protected by your kind of smack-in-the-face non-democratically appointed position, and shape the future of a University to which we are all deeply connected?
Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of people who are primarily concerned with the image of Paterno, and it creates some noise. But a lot, if not the vast majority, are viewing it with some combination of respect for Paterno the man and concern about what the example of the Paterno firing saga reflects on the Board, the University, and by extension, themselves.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Jan 13, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 14 recs
This is spot on
Also, point number 2 is baffling for a myriad of reasons. The lack of respect is shows and the obvious aftermath that was going to happen.
Of all of the stupid in this entire situation, the BoT releasing a statement of Joe Paterno’s firing at 10 pm on a Wednesday has to be the dumbest.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Jan 13, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The fact that I'm hesitant to agree that it's the dumbest
should say a lot about how everything was handled. It’s basically like Sosa hitting more home runs than anyone else had ever hit in the history of baseball, but not even hitting the most of anyone in that particular year. Incredible.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Jan 13, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
You're on a roll, Octa
The originating comment is great, captures my feelings pretty well, and the Sosa analogy is tremendous as well. I am more inclined to believe he hit all those dingers taking nothing more than Flinstones vitamins than I am to accept any notion of the sitting Trustees’ competence.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Can you email that to Erickson?
Seriously. He doesn’t get this at all
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Jan 13, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
These need to be the first three questions at the townhall meeting
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Jan 13, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Not to sound corny, but its the respect that I have for Joe Paterno, the man, not the football coach, is what makes me look alot deeper into things than just cursory glances. Unfortunately, that takes a little bit more work and rational and reasonable thinking, but most outsiders arent willing to do the extra work and rational and reasonable thinking. And to be perfectly honest, thats their fault, not Joe Paterno’s. Joe Paterno, the man, deserves that from me.
This has never been and never will be a Joe Paterno, the football coach, issue for me. It has always been about Joe Paterno, the man. I honestly cannot fathom how people can so easily throw everything he has done away so easily when reflecting upon the scandal.
I realize this is making it sound like Im making this about Joe Paterno, which contadicts everything I wrote above, but that not the case. This whole saga has taken two different paths for me since it started. The first being, directly Paterno related, finding out the actual facts behind the scandal, as it pertains to Paterno, the man I admire, and everybody else. And just recently with the Novack piece as a major impetus, the second path, the relation of Paterno’s treatment and how it reflects on the failure of the leadership at Penn State through this whole thing. And how the alumni, who I cant count myself as, deserve better than what your getting and hopefully see change for the better in the future.
Yea, I know Paterno, Paterno, Paterno. I can see that in my post. But there is a reason why I know that Im in the right place in regards to him. There was a pic posted on our Univ. at Buffalo message board either Monday or Tuesday of “the week.” It was basically Joe, at home, at night, in his “old man” clothes, pulling the curtains aside looking out the window at the mass of reporters, cameras at the ready, outside on what I assume is Joe’s front lawn. When I look at that picture, I dont see a football coach, I see a man, somebody who gave everything of himself to that university and taught and urged others to do the same, and I remember thinking to myself then, “He doesnt deserve this.” I went to bed that night, and as a 37 year old man I can admit, I fell asleep with that picture ingrained in my mind and tears in my eyes.
by BRJ75 on Jan 13, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
There's something else I would be extremely concerned about if I were an Alum of Penn State
If it is believed that only a select few on the BOT’s have supreme power, the fact that these select few individuals that have their own business interests to protect outside of their role as a Penn State BOT member, do they really have Penn State’s best interest at heart, or are they protecting themselves and their business interests.
We’ve already seen them cave to media pressure and public opinion, especially when it was flying in the face of Penn State. So did they act with the best interests of Penn State in mind, or themselves? It really doesnt matter by the simple fact that when Penn State needed them most, they caved to the outside world.
Whats truly scary, and of great concern to me if I were an alum, is that they had their egos stroked following their actions. These individuals wouldnt have gotten to where they were in their business interests if they didnt have some sort of ego. They were rewarded for their actions. From personal experience, up here in WNY, when I turned on our local sports radio channel (who could give two craps about covering college football any other time, but when this all started, all of a sudden they were experts on it), the Buffalo News (who barely covers UB Football) lauded them as heroes, and Im sure most of you will know that Colin Cowherd and Jim Rome (both shows are on between local coverage, unfortunately) lauded them as heroes as well. Im sure this could be said of pretty much anywhere else in the country. But the fact remains, they were looked upon as “Heroes.”
So now they can sit there on their marble pedestals and claim “we did what was right, they said we were heroes, and you guys (alumni), sorry, nothing to see here, move along”
by BRJ75 on Jan 13, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I agree.
In my mind, a hero is someone who stands by his/her principles even when it is not popular. The board did the most cowardly thing by caving into the media pressure, and yet were treated as heros. It sickens me.
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
The "hero" narrative is bone-headed.
As much as the Board deserves crap for its handling of Paterno’s firing and the crisis in general, they (and the entire system of governance at PSU) deserve AT LEAST as much blame for allowing a closed climate of unchecked power consolidated in the hands of a few that made Penn State fertile territory for this type of disaster. I question whether the likes of Cowherd have the intellect or, more likely, the attention span to grasp these sorts of nuanced concerns that require seeing past the tip of one’s nose. Their audience certainly doesn’t care, which means they don’t either. So instead of keeping silent on the issue for fear of being thought foolish, they open their mouths and remove all doubt.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
by PSU_Buch on Jan 13, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I somewhat agree
The treatment of Paterno was the biggest flashpoint in the BOT’s mishandling of the crisis. It’s an injustice we all want to see rectified, but it shouldn’t be the community’s primary focus.
However, there are plenty of ways that Joe’s firing can be used as an example when discussing the larger failings of the university.
For example, when the news broke, it was immediately clear that the public was looking for someone at Penn State to hold accountable for the University’s collective failure as to Victim 2. The Board or the President should have come out right away to steer that discussion. Their failure to do so created the lynch-mob atmosphere which they blame for Paterno’s firing.
The lack of accountability, the lack of communication, the poor decision making skills, and the general cowardice in the face of a difficult sutuation are the fundamental problems here, and they are evidenced just as stronly by the failure to investigate Sandusky as they are by Paterno’s firing. THOSE are the problems that need to be addressed.
by newenglandnittanylion on Jan 13, 2012 11:13 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 4 recs
My cynical point of view
If even one question is asked about Paterno in the course of a 2 hour town hall meeting, which clip do you think the news is going to roll?
The only people following the entire 2 hour town halls are Penn Staters. Everyone else gets the 15-30 second clip on the news. So it doesn’t really matter.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Jan 13, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Chris, I respectfully disagree with your views on the constant Paterno questions.
On the surface, I can see where the emphasis on the football coach makes it appear that that is all we care about. But our dear old alma mater taught us to think on a deeper level and not focus on the obvious. I think the thing about Paterno that has everybody so enraged is how they fired the man without ever sitting down with him, face to face, to see what he knew, when he knew, and what he did about it. By firing Joe without Joe even having a chance to defend himself reeks of cowardice. I also think you can throw in a personal vendetta against Joe by certain members of the board which led to this decision. And I think a board that governs based on cowardice and personal grudges instead of basing their decisions on knowledge and facts appalls us alumni. It just so happens that the worst qualities of this board were made known to us by how they handled Joe.
And furthermore, I also think the board allowed Joe to be lynched in order to give ESfuckingPN and the rest of the illiterate, mob-stirring media their scalp so that the media would get out of town before people really started looking at the BoT and their role in this tragedy.
by Ab4PSU on Jan 13, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
The board made Joe the face of the scandle by firing him the way they did.
Silence for days, then squashing a presser where Joe wanted to speak and then firing him made then entire media focus on Joe instead of what really happened, when what really happened had very little to do with PSU.
I just read.
by BMAN13 on Jan 13, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It had plenty to do with PSU.
It just had little to actually do with the football program.
by Ab4PSU on Jan 13, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is correct.
And the firing of the Head Football Coach is synecdoche-as-master-trope.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
I try to keep up, Sub
but you totally lost me from the start on that one. Got something to Google this weekend.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
just did google it...
lemme see if I got it….
Synecdoche – using a specific for a general or a general for a specific… ie “a rockefeller” being a rich man… or saying a school is more than just bricks and mortar or more than just its buildings
Trope – figure of speech
synecdoche as master trope all together is a description of how we represent truth by using one thing to represent all things.. so in this case people are using the firing of Joe Paterno as an example for how the BoT operates in toto….
I think… I really have no idea…
As a tangent… because theyre welcome here… I love learning the new stuff I learn just by being here… so thanks…
All of our comments are irrelevant - LetsGoPSU
by jaytay13 on Jan 13, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You are on it.
I’m exactly using the concept as a focusing mechanism, thus trope rather than figure. Only, I tend to think of synecdoche as whole for the part, part for the whole.
For me, it seems that in the minds of the board, they want to cast part of the problem (Joe — and after two months I can’t credit him with being anything more than a minor part) as the whole of the problem.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Cool, thanks jaytay
And for many alums, Joe’s firing serves as a stand-in for the entire problem of flaws in the University’s model of governance.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Excellent work!
It has become a bit of a sidebar exercise: investigating and understanding the many meanings of the good professor.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
I feel the level of Paterno questions...
…is absolutely appropriate. The anger and concern over Paterno stems from a different issue than child abuse. The contention that our concern over Paterno is TAKING AWAY from our concern with child abuse bugs the heck out of me.
I was adamantly against child molestation BEFORE this whole thing broke…anyone in their RIGHT MIND was against child abuse before this story broke. From the very beginning, it has seemed like national journalists and social networks have tried to use this situation as a vehicle to show how much MORE they’re against child abuse than anyone else, which is simply ridiculous.
I don’t think there is any question that the BoT will be making moves to prevent the atrocities of child abuse at Penn State, but I DO think there is a question about whether or not the BoT will make right by the Paterno family (which is a completely separate issue than child abuse), who have (so far) been falsely torn down in the wicthhunt to find someone to blame, and make the story more juicy ($).
The national media focusing on our concern with Paterno, is in itself, quite hypocritical. Syracuse left an OPEN SEAT for Bernie Fine at their next home game, the fired child abuser himself. And when they announced it, the stadium gave a standing ovation for their missing coach. It’s difficult to sit here and blame them because they probably believe in his innocence, but can you imagine if we had done that for Sandusky? Can you imagine any Penn Stater WANTING to do that for Sandusky? Meanwhile our love of JoePa is condemned, and our musings on why he was so quickly judged are deemed as pro-child abuse.
Darnit I don’t care what they say any more.
by Cadderly18 on Jan 13, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I agree that there has been a bunch of linking of unrelated issues,
making any one of them all the more difficult to corral.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
From the very beginning, it has seemed like national journalists and social networks have tried to use this situation as a vehicle to show how much MORE they’re against child abuse than anyone else, which is simply ridiculous.
I honestly don’t see where this is coming from. It seems to me that the media have covered this situation more from a perspective of “How the hell did this happen at a major university, and given that university officials were aware of this in 2002, why didn’t anything get done until 2008?”
You have either been very selective in listening/reading
or aren’t paying much attention. How many times did you hear someone/a media personality not consider being in the position of MM and what it’s really like, and said they would have just beat the shit out of Sandusky on the spot? How many people/media persionalities said if they had been told what Joe was told they would have stopped everything and gone to the FBI? How many people/media members said state college should be leveled/blow up? How many people/journalists said be fired immediately even if they didn’t know anything just to make sure? How many people said they wished Joe would die? When he got lung cancer how many said it was karma?
I have a pretty nice 420 mile buffer, and I heard those things CONSTANTLY. I heard very few voices of reason asking the questions the way you have posed them.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then you weren't living this story in early November
A lot of the anger was justified. After a while it became a game of one upsmanship on ESPN.
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Jan 14, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't read through most of the comments
as I was just skimming responses to Chris’s comment to find one similar to what I wanted to say, and this is pretty close to it.
Seriously, how many questions do you want about child abuse? “Dr. Erickson, are you against child abuse?” “Do you think people should report child abuse?” “If you witnessed an act of child abuse, would you report it?”
There’s not much discussion to be had with a lot of the potential topics other than the Paterno firing. People are all pretty much in agreement that child abuse and child molesters are bad. It doesn’t take a 3 night statewide tour to come to that conclusion.
It would have been nice if there were more questions relating to the future plans, but a lot of the answers to ALL of the questions seemed to be of the, “we are doing the best we can” or the, “I can’t answer that” variety.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 13, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"He wants to find a way to honor them appropriately but has not yet been able to spend any time finding that way."
My money’s on having an unmarked van pull up in front of the Paterno house. A guy in an OPP work uniform gets out carrying a box – he goes up to the front door, sets the box on the stoop, rings the doorbell, and proceeds to hop back in the van and speed off. When Scott comes out he sees the box, picks it up, and opens it to reveal a cake from the Giant bakery that had ‘Happy Birthday Sarah’ on it originally – he can tell because the white icing is stained yellow where the original letters had been. The cake has had blue lettering re-applied which reads “TY Mr. Patren” with a hole in the icing where the decorator tried to squeeze in the ‘o’ before running off the edge, but gave up and scraped off what was there.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 6:31 AM EST reply actions 17 recs
Creative
"Every player we have, someone-maybe a parent, a grandparent, someone-poured their soul into that young man. They are handing that young man off to us. They are giving us their treasure, and it's our job to make sure we give them back that young man intact and ready to face the world."
-J.V.Pa.
by psume06 on Jan 13, 2012 6:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This comment was pure awesome.
I think lee deserves at least a 10-spot in BSD Bucks for this gem.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
So great I had to say it twice!
But what really pisses me off is the server glitched censored the heart of the comment: I think lee is owed at least a 10-spot in BSD Bucks for this gem.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
As much as I appreciate the effusive praise...
I only see one complete posting of your original comment.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
wtf
Sorry; the last time I looked at this, there were two comments posted under my SN that had the post title only. Obviously, BSD/the Internet is still broken from yesterday’s “Italics incident.”
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Erickson asks alumni not to rush judgement of BOT
Ironic, LOL
by DocPennState on Jan 13, 2012 8:10 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What was very, very funny about that comment...
…is that he immediately knew what he said was going to be jumped on by the crowd. He started smiling no less than a second after he said it, with a very “oh crap, shouldn’t have said that” look on his face. He covered it up by saying that he would hope the crowd would not rush to judgment if they felt that rushing to judgment was a problem in the past. Kind of a “two wrongs don’t make a right” thing.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Funny, two wrongs don't make a right.
Unless of course, well you know.
I have to give credit to Erickson.
Executing these meetings and sitting in front of these crowds when you KNOW how many bullets you are going to take requires some serious cajones. I may not be happy with all off the answers he is providing, but I respect what he is doing.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 8:31 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
I appreciate that he's taking the time to do this,
but I don’t feel like this is accomplishing anything. He’s up there taking questions, but I do not see any effort on his part to execute on the feedback he’s getting from alumni. I’m also not seeing any real redemption on the part of the administration through these dialogues. What I’ve taken away from what kflinthosh’s post is that the BoT is going to continue to act however they want, and we should feel complacent having control over 9 out of 32 members.
There is absolutely no mention of how things will be handled better in the future, how we as alumni can make our voice heard (outside of the elections for a minority of members), and how we can hold anyone accountable. Without any of these things being addressed, all these meetings are amounting to is a bunch of hollow words trying to make us complacent.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My guess
and this is coming from my worldview that the board is making cold, calculated business decisions regarding this whole thing is that they don’t intend to change anything. These meetings are being provided as a relief valve to try and get all the emotional responses out and try and gauge who and what the real threats are – if any.
If they let the air out of the emotion, then they just have to wait it out and most folks will get tired of fighting it. Sure, there will be a few new members voted into the board, but they are counting on there being little to no organized resistance in 6 months. These meetings are a way to prevent that resistance from gaining momentum.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I agree completely.
I think this is simply an attempt to let people feel like they’ve accomplished something and hope that they will move on. Further, for anyone left still looking to take action, dividing them into different groups is the most effective way to mitigate risk. The election issue ensures that you have factions fighting with each other, instead of fighting the bigger issues. There’s a reason that when it comes to politics, the people in power are able to stay in power, and it’s mostly due to allowing everyone else to waste their efforts fighting each other instead of collectively fighting you. Divide and conquer is a very successful tactic, and that seems to be exactly what they are attempting to accomplish.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
if this is true
They aren’t accomplishing much! I would say people walk aawy feeling more dissatisfied.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Strong agreement with this
And we can swap-out so-called Sheep BoT members until our great-great kids graduate Penn State and institutional control will be retained within the current structure, in the world according to Ben Novak, who has my ear.
In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them
by PSUMarine78 on Jan 13, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Here should be a real threat:
Alumni donate no more money to the university until the BoT changes how they operate.
I’ll bet when the rotten, fucking, gutless, lowlife common classless bastards see the money fountain dry up there will be changes.
That is what we need to do: withhold the money. Money talks and bullshit walks.
let me shorten one sentence for you
I’ll bet when therotten, fucking, gutless, lowlife common classless bastardsNoonans see the money fountain dry up there will be changes.
I just read.
by BMAN13 on Jan 13, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
My wife says I can make a short story long.
A dude from Bardstown, KY.
Watch these guys around your women.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
I know
but this is where the problem lies for folks like me. I am really torn at a time like this. I don’t want to turn my bad on the kids and athletes I want to support when they actually might need it more now than ever before.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agred
I’d also be concerned that some of these guys might not really care if donations drop and will just hang on – Al Davis-like – out of spite.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Can always specify a gift.
I added a bit extra to my albeit small THON gift to help make up for someone who might not donate. Made mention on the donation card, too. No star in my crown for me, but just wanted to let the THON folks know their work is appreciated.
And kflinthosh
THANK YOU for the work done on this very detailed summary!
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
by SarcasmJam on Jan 13, 2012 8:32 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Beat me to the punch
This was very a clear and thorough summary, and I really, really appreciate the time you put into posting it. I didn’t realize they were webstreaming the one last night, and it was very helpful to have this. Thanks very much.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
No problem
I had a number of friends who wanted to get in but couldn’t, so I wanted to make sure they didn’t get shortchanged. I figured this would be a good forum to share it.
One other point that Erickson made that I do want to echo — only 11,000 of the 194,000 alumni eligible to vote in the BOT election did last time. If you can vote this year, do it. I’m not going to say vote for the same people or new people (I think we all have a similar feeling here), but if nothing else, please just be sure to vote.
Hope that wasn’t too sappy.
"We're not going to apologize for being a great university."
I’m pretty sure that’s all you’ve been doing since November.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Jan 13, 2012 8:44 AM EST reply actions 11 recs
Sounds pretty good
But it seems like the answer to most of the questions are “I don’t know, that’s up to the Board.” It’s nice that later on he apparently did say that he’d try to get the BOT chairman out to one of these things.
The question about the President’s independence suggests a lot of people still don’t quite get it. The President is not independent of the board. He’s not supposed to be. The board hires the president. It’s not like the POTUS and Congress.
I understand why it might look bad that all the questions are about Paterno but that’s to be expected because that’s the thing people are dissatisfied with at the moment. Of course, helping to prevent child abuse is more important, but what kind of questions can be asked about that? I think everyone feels pretty good about what Penn State is doing in that area right now. Perhaps, just for balance, somebody could ask Erickson to discuss that a bit more. I’m sure he’d love to take that question. But people don’t usually ask questions about things that are going well. I imagine nobody asked “Remember when Tamba Hali had that sack against Ohio State?? That was awesome.”
He did say, as I expected, that the board didn’t anticipate that PSU would be sucked into the Sandusky black hole of shit to the degree that it was and that’s why they were unprepared. I think it goes without saying that they regret not being more prepared. Why they had no inkling of what could be headed there way isn’t entirely clear. Did the AG mislead them? Perhaps. It really comes down to McQuery and how the prosecutors found out he had a story to tell. Did the BOT know he was testifying and what he was going to say? Unclear. And I don’t know if anyone wants to talk about that now given that he’s an important witness in two cases.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 8:58 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Tamba sacking Troy Smith was awesome.
…and that fact bears repeating in every available venue.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The question about presidential independence was mine
And I can assure you that I fully understand the relationship between a board and a college president, having served on committees which reported to both offices at two different institutions, including Penn State. I can also tell you that the relationship between the Board and Graham Spanier was far from that of what I consider typical. The word “No” was not in the vocabulary of either as it related to each other. If Spanier wanted to do something, it was going to be approved by the Board. If the Board wanted to do something, it was going to be endorsed by Spanier.
The Board is supposed to review recomendations and actions of the President, not simply rubber stamp them. By the same token, the President is supposed to carefully review items he is taking to the Board and make complete accountings of what he knows of a proposal, feedback he has recieved, and his recomendation. I know personally, for a fact, of a major campus construction project that received considerable blowback, opposition, and request for modification and further explanation by the committee responsible for recomending how moneys are spent from its funding source, where the committee was told the Board wants it so the President will be enthusiastically recomending it. End of Discussion.
I couldn’t ask the Board what they would do to fix the rubber stamping that had gone on for years, so that is why I asked the President what he would do to fix it and try to make sure his office had as independent a point of view as possible when making decisions on his own, and recomendations to the Board. What I took away from his answer is that he is going to talk loudly at Board meetings.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
by LegalLion on Jan 13, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Where were you sitting last night?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Off to the right, six rows back from the podium
Pretty sure I was the only guy there in a bow tie.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
So you ARE a dude
Man, I’ve had your screen name mixed up for some time. Sorry for all my pesterings thereabout.
Also, kudos on rockin a bow tie, but….pics or it didn’t happen
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
I'll confirm the bow tie sighting
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
That was you!
Awesome bow tie! And good question, too
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Thanks
On both counts
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Thanks for that clarification
I agree with that. Not independent in the technical legal sense, but in the normal sense of “having one’s own mind.” Right?
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Precisely
And even more doing one’s job correctly. Part of any President’s job when running a college or university day to day is to get the pulse of the students and faculty regarding all sorts of things and relay that to the Board when necessary to influence their policy making to whatever degree applicable. With Spanier, I often got the impression that he saw himself in a position to dictate terms to the students and faculty, and implement whatever he/the board wanted opinions of the rest of the PSU community be damned. Granted he was good at this and a lot of times made it seems as though it was a choice the affected members of the community were making, but it really wasn’t.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Paterno questions
You make a great point here. Erickson was and has been very effusive about what we have done, are doing, and will do to prevent child sexual abuse, so those questions have largely been answered without being asked. Information wasn’t clearly presented about how to question the Board, how the Board will be restructure, how to make things “right” with Joe and Sue (we can’t forget Sue in this), so I would guess that led to more questions about those topics instead of questions about abuse.
by kflintosh on Jan 13, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the report!
Question for BSD Wentworth: I’m probably missing tons of context in this one, but does this seem like a crazy promise to make right now?
An alumnus asked who will pay for Paterno’s legal bills since he was “thrown under the bus.” Erickson said that if Paterno faces legal actions stemming from anything related to the university, Paterno’s bills will be paid for by the university.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
I don't follow,
why do you think it’s a crazy promise?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure; my reactive thinking's a little cloudy on it
I guess my first reaction was that it reminded me of Spanier irresponsibly endorsing Curley in the early going. Then I started trippin on the ‘legal actions stemming from anything related to the university’ and got hung up on all that that could entail.
But LegalLion cleared me up below and I’m shaking it all off.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
Not crazy in the least
Actions done in the course of employment are usually defended by the employer, unless there are circumstances allowing the employer to disclaim responsibility such as an intentional tort.
Simply put:
Joe hearing a report and reporting it to his superior, covered.
Joe going to Sandusky’s house and beating him with a cane, not covered.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
But would beating him with a cane have absolved Joe of his moral obligation?
Let’s ask Commissioner Noonan and Mark May…
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
I'm honestly surprised
No one has done this yet. How Sandusky has avoided being assaulted or worse is incredible.
I attribute it to basic human decency.
I might want to beat him with a cane myself, but I still understand that he’s entitled to due process.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Eh I'd argue some of it is luck
If Sandusky lived downtown, instead of out in Lemont, I’d imagine one or more misguided students may have tried to take their best shot at him or his property.
The whole being on house arrest thing probably is helping too.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
I don't think that's what he indicated though,
is it? That would be the employer providing counsel and effectively defending the University by representing the employee.
You were in a better position having been there, but I get the impression from this recap that they will pay Joe’s legal bills for the counsel of his choice?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't get the impression that it was that specific
Later in the talk Erickson made reference to how all of the lawyers and any settlements/judgments will be paid from various insurance sources. I got the feeling he really doesn’t know specifics beyond the talking points he was given on the subject, and would have no clue if he was asked who gets to pick Joe’s (or any other employee’s) lawyer for the civil suits.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Yeah, I guess I wouldn't expect him to understand the nuances.
I sincerely doubt Joe’s current attorney’s rate is being covered by the insurance company. If he did get on the approved list, I’m sure they are paying a limited amount and the Paterno’s are making up the difference. I was most surprised by the comment because I just don’t see how Joe’s and the University’s interests in the civil suit could possibly be alligned. His best individual defense is that he very clearly conveyed to Curley and Schultz that something illegal happened, and set up the meeting with the actual witness. That would be very bad for the University’s liability.
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
They will be payed from the university's insurance
Joe was covered as a result of being an employe
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Question: did any of the questioners thank him for appearing and doing these Town Hall meetings?
That one’s from the curious about decency department.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
It happened a lot
Probably as often as there was a question about Joe
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Yes, there were a few thank-yous
I’ll also add that most of the questioners were tough but respectful toward Erickson. As you’d expect in any open forum, there were a couple who should have toned it down a bit. Overall though, most of the true angst was directed toward the Board of Trustees and the fact that no one who was involved in the decision-making process from March-November was sitting on that stage with Erickson
by danpsu97 on Jan 13, 2012 10:21 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Thanks, all of you in this thread...
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
No, thank YOU jtot.
…and God bless us, every one!
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
not sure if serious...
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
Semi-serious.
Probably about as serious as you were with your group thank you.
The Tiny Tim quote just felt right, given the whole group-hug vibe.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Ohio State sux
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
by PSU_Buch on Jan 13, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hey hey... stop talking football !!
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess there are universals after all.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Ahhh
I believe we learned the engineering term for this the other day: attenuation. I started it with my ambiguous use of ‘this’, which was originally intended to mean just the small subset of those who answered my question about decency to Erickson and which was indeed sincere. But that small ambiguity leaked out some meaning and allowed your interpretation and response. THEN, I learned that it was a Tiny Tim quote and some meaning creeped back in to the leaky pipe.
ok, I’m gonna take my coffee-addled brain and fingers out of here now and apply them to my actual responsibilities. I think I just got sick of seeing my own words on the screen.
holla late brotha!
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
That's two
unrelated attenuation references on BSD this week.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
We are nothing if not recursive.
…and nerdy. Nerdy and recursive.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Nerdy, recursive
and tangential.
It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you. - JoePo on JoePa
It seems like these meetings are missing an agenda.
While I believe that it can be said these townhall meetings are being used to help us be more comfortable with Erickson and vent some of our frustrations, I have a hard time believing they will lead to any change. I know that no change will come by asking only questions relevant to Paterno, however I am very unsatisfied with the responses in relation to the BoT and the way the university is currently run.
How are we, as alumni, supposed to feel comfortable donating and supporting an institution that we are unable to hold accountable? That is still the unaddressed issue here. Sure it’s great to say we need to vote during the elections… but that only covers 9 out of 32. I personally do not feel like I can continue to support Penn State as much as I have in the past knowing this. While I truly still believe it is a great university, and that the actions of the BoT and administration do not override the greater good that is coming out of the university, it is a significant matter of concern.
I’m not surprised that he side steps some of the difficult questions, but overall, I feel like there is no drive to accomplish anything on the part of Erickson. What I’ve looked to these townhall meetings to produce (while admittedly hiding a torch and pitchfork behind my back ready to riot) is a sense that our concerns are being taken seriously and people will be held accountable, even if not by alumni. Instead it mostly seems like they still support their decisions and the way they have handled this and passed the responsibility of any failure on to outside entities (the crisis management firm, Paterno, the media, etc.).
The other thing that I find concerning is that there does not seem to be an emphasis on the investigation being conducted. While he mentioned it will be made public in its entire capacity, that does not mean the investigation isn’t being steered by the administration and BoT. What good will an investigative report be if it does not attempt to determine the culpability of the BoT? It’s easy to ask these questions after the townhall meeting, and much harder to have the foresight to have come to the meetings prepared, but unfortunately that’s the way it is. Based off of the Pittsburgh and Philly meetings, I hope someone at the NYC one will address some of these concerns.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 10:41 AM EST reply actions
I can't entirely fault them for this...
We’re obviously talking about people who had their collective finger pretty far away from the pulse, up their ass.
Would you like a chocolate-covered pretzel?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A Mallrats reference?
Awesome! Hartford, the Whale? They win like once a decade or soemthing.
I failed trying to repeat that line but it kills me everytime.
Actually it was a Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back reference...
which was in itself a Mallrats reference.
The funny part is that I wasn’t even thinking about the line from the movie until I had typed most of the first line, and suddenly realized that I was channeling Brodie.
…and when I just went to IMDB to confirm that it was Brodie and not Banky, they had a picture of Emma Stone (with red hair) with the caption ’People’s Choice Awards – Red Carpet Photos’.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
If it's not constructive, then what's the point?
I understand that they may be attempting to get a better understanding of how the majority of alumni feel, but if nothing is being proposed to act on that information, then there is no point. My understanding of his answers has been that they understand our concerns and that’s about it. And I truly believe most of the answers are deflections. The insight into only 11,000 votes being cast last election to me is meaningless if regardless of the number of ballots, we only have a 28% voice on the BoT. It’s an attempt to make us feel like we’ve failed ourselves, while the reality is if every alumni voted, we’d still only have a 28% voice.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He's very good at deflecing questions
Except the one about ice cream. He clearly didn’t have a prepared statement and could not come up with ONE flavor other than peachy paterno.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Re: the investigation
Judge Freeh was an excellent choice if we want answers. I have a two degree of separation from him from someone who knows him in a professional capacity and personally. He assured me he will get the job done and get the job done well.
He investigated the Uni-bomber and the Oklahoma City bombing for crying out loud. He’s not the guy you hire to do stakeouts in an unmarked van.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I'm on board with this guy as the choice and anxious to see the findings.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Re: A Penn State Scandal or Not
If Hot Rod really doesn’t believe that this was a “Penn State” scandal, he and the big wigs on the board should lead an initiative to get the facts out there to the public.
For one, I’m tired of reading things like “Penn State knowingly harbored a child rapist” because, besides being ridiculous, there is simply no factual evidence that proves that assumption. Additionally, the information revealed by MM and others at the preliminary hearings disproves many of the assumptions one might make after reading the GJ report.
I get that PSU probably doesn’t want to venture out any further into the media firestorm. But I believe they owe it to alumni, students and the state of PA to take a hard stance and start defending themselves. Otherwise, the hyperbole will continue.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
I guess they are waiting for the independant report
and hope that will be thought of as valid by the public, but I think by then people will not care, have made up their minds, forgotten, etc.
Exactly
The media strikes while the iron is hot. By waiting this thing out, people will make up their minds. Shit, most probably have anyway.
by Artiefufkin10 on Jan 13, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe
But I think this is wasted energy as well. The President attempting to argue the semantics of whose scandal it is does not help an iota. It’s also contradictory to a sincere transparency mission: you start by denying instead of taking responsibility?
I think what the President & the Board & the PR Firm hired by them are stuck on now, is what the public is learning about the written governance structure. All of them are obviously disinterested in addressing that in the least.
jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.
This "not a Penn State" scandal stuff is pure semantics.
It makes a lot of people feel better to say that it’s purely a Sandusky scandal. Helps the alumni and fans cope a little better, helps the administration try to distance themselves from the issue. But if Jerry Sandusky was molesting children in Erie instead of the football program’s multi-million dollar facility, Graham Spanier would still be University President, Tim Curley would be Athletic Director, Joe Paterno would have retired with dignity, and Gary Schultz would be whatever the hell Gary Schultz was.
Calling it “The Sandusky Scandal” feels nice, but it’s not true. He used Penn State’s image, facilities, and name to do what he did. Some of the highest ranking officials at the University were fired or placed on leave for the way they handled it. It’s hard for this to be any more of a Penn State scandal, and while it’s ultimately semantics, it would be nice to see people accept and even embrace it as a larger-scale problem of how these things should be dealt with, rather than sheepishly labeling it as the predatory actions of a lone wolf completely out of the PSU sphere.
The constant denial of this is quite unsettling. This is a time to be taking responsibility, not making excuses.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 13, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Looking big picture, when you consider the entire Grand Jury presentment, this is a JS scandal. It is much larger than Penn State, although none of his actions would have been possible without the image he crafted for himself using Penn State.
When you narrow your view point to Victim 2, yes, this is a Penn State scandal for the very reasons you listed.
So it’s both. Semantics, yes. But there is a distinction. The media has only latched on to the Penn State scandal component and not the larger JS scandal.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Jan 13, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Is there a point where this does not become a Penn State scandal in your mind? As belbujou pointed out, most of vicitims were from Second mile and most of the alleged attacks were not at Penn State. Calling this a Penn State scandal makes it sounds like dozens in the administration were making a concerted effort to enable the child predator, but that does not seem to be the case.
At what point does a molester using candy to lure victims become a “Hershy Scandal”?
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
scooter, you spelled my name wrong!
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I was referring to your evil twin…
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
oh, ok, that's fine then!
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
To draw the focus...
on PSU, and primarily one incident in 2002, is to miss the point. PSU is not without blame, but PSU’s role in this is important, not primary. Instead of this being about how JS used a charity and his celebrity to commit horrible acts, it is about one weekend in March 2002 and a week in November 2011.
Sigh.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 13, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It's more that just semantics
It is absolutely clear Attorney General Linda Kelly made this “The Penn State Scandal”
1) by focusing on the Victim 2 allegations
2) by bringing Perjury charges on vague differing recollections of a 10 minute meet 9 years past
3) by approving a complete misrepresentation of the McQueary testimony
4) by a press conference and release that stated “EQUALLY SIGNIFICANT” in equating this alleged unidentified ‘victim 2’ and Curley and Schultz’s opinion that McQueary’s suspicions were not sufficient to merit a police inquiry with ten brave young men who came forward to lodge serious complaints against JS
This is not some SEMANTIC difference – it was a purposeful and malicious distortion of the facts.
All of the victims were The Second Mile kids
all were victimized by Jerry Sandusky
none but the unidentified victims 2 and 8 were allegedly assaulted at PSU
I support Anthony Lubrano and Franco Harris for their efforts to change that perception and look forward to the day Linda Kelly will be exposed for falsely making the Second Mile Sandusky Sex Scandal into something it was not as she is disbarred.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Jan 14, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
AG Kelly
First off, aurabass, I want to add to all the thank yous that are floating around- it’s refreshing to see a non-Penn Stater doing so much to try and clear the waters.
Regarding AG Kelly, and apologies if you guys discussed this months ago, but do you think she is the one who “accidentally” leaked the GJ presentment? That’s one think I’ve not seen you mention, with more apologies if you have and I’ve simply missed it.
The fact that, at least what I had read in one of (I think) Ganim’s PN articles, the presentment wasn’t meant to be released when it was, along with AG Kelly’s twisting of what direct testimony states, makes me think that this goes at least as far as you’ve mentioned, if not farther.
Any idea how hard it is to impeach or recall a sitting PA governor (hopefully easier that it is to recall city mayors)? I think when all is said and done, Corbett is going to be out on his you-know-what, if he hasn’t been defeated in the next gubernatorial election.
FTR
I agree with Esteban in that Penn State definitely has a role in this scandal, but the university should not be the primary focus. The primary focus should be Jerry Sandusky. This entire thing doesn’t happen unless JS is a pedophile. I also think the Second Mile has more of a role than Penn State does, and it should be a Second Mile or youth charity scandal in addition to/above the Penn State connection.
That being said, I take more issue with those calling it a “Penn State football Scandal” over the straight Penn State scandal. While it is obvious that there are parts directly tied to the University (especially the administration, who obviously dropped the ball), calling it a football program scandal misses the mark to me—because it doesn’t involve the football program, or, if it does, it’s so tangentially related. Calling it a football scandal implies that it directly impacts/was impacted by the football program at times of alleged incidents, and that was just wrong IMO.
Fire Dan Snyder
by Cari Greene on Jan 14, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Does anyone know the timing of the independent investigation?
Just curious.
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think I heard May.
Don’t quote me on that, though.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
As long as you don't have to hear Mark May
then you are fine.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Report expected by the end of the Spring 2012 semester
I don’t remember whether that was stated last night or beforehand (it all kind of runs together at this point)
by danpsu97 on Jan 13, 2012 11:28 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
That's been said a few times.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
CDT still has a selection for" PSU Scandal." For a long time, so did the online Collegian.
PennLive did change to Jerry Sandusky Scandal.
Pretty hard to change the dialogue when the locals keep using it, too,
Hot Rod . . .
Maybe he’ll do some color on hoops broadcasts in the future.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Yes
Breakfast buffet. Don’t ask how I ended up doing it.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 13, 2012 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Better than I expected
But it was after a long night (not strip club related) so I might have been hungrier than usual.
Only one stripper there with maybe about ten guys.
by Mr. Rosewater on Jan 13, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
The Glitter Factory apparently has a good one

Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Jan 13, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ron Swanson auto-rec engaged.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
Yes, I am on twitter.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jan 13, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Flintosh!
Haven’t seen you since college – Hope all is well man!
by stevenreedkelly on Jan 13, 2012 11:29 AM EST reply actions
I have a suggestion for the first question at the New York Town Hall
Tonight there will be pointed questions regarding the BoT’s lack of transperancy and poor handling of a crisis. There will be pointed questions about the treatment of Joe Paterno, who many feel was used as a scapegoat of the BoT to get the media off of the University’s lawn and out of the face of the BoT. There will be questions about the organization of the BoT and standing order IX.
Mr. Erickson, we appreciate the fact that you are willing to put yourself out here to field those questions; however, it is clear that you won’t be able to satisfactorly answer any of them. In that vein, why aren’t all 32 members of the BoT sitting on the stage with you answering questions alongside you and what will be done to make that happen in the future?
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Jan 13, 2012 11:47 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Oh yeah.
The BoT is actually going to make themselves available to answer questions after the way they fucked all of this up.
You’ll see Al Quaeda learn Latin and celebrate Mass with the Pope before you see the BoT make themselves available to the public.
I don't expect it to happen
But I’m more curious about Erickson’s response. I want to know if he’s a ‘rubber stamper’ or if there will be a marked change in how the administration operates until 2014.
I’d further add questions like these:
What, specifically do you think was mishandled by the BoT during the fallout from this?
What, specifically, do you think the BoT could have done to minimize the fallout and change the rhetoric?
What would you have liked to see done differently?
How do you feel about standing order IX?
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Jan 13, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He was asked if he is the rubber stampers to which he replied “there will be discussions”
And any questions in reference to the BOT will be answered “I wasn’t on the BOT, you’ll have to ask them” unless you ask about whether or not he agreed with their decision to fire Paterno to which he will reply “yes”
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
He's not going to say he disagreed
Even if he did.
Early on, the board and Erickson seemed to believe that showing a united front was important. Right now, Erickson’s popularity would increase if he disagreed with the board, but then that would make him look to be a liar because he said before he thought it was a good call.
I don’t think they can fire him now, so he has a lot of freedom as far as that goes, but I don’t think Erickson wants to piss them of by being seen as “showing up” the board or arguing with them in public. He doesn’t want his next 2.5 years to suck any more than they already will.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 12:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Erickson is honest
And if he actually disgreed with them, he would have just kept it to himself. He’s goo question deflector.
He’s in a really wierd position. He’s a lame duck with a lot of work to do. The BOT is probably breathing down his neck and keepin him on a short leash. But on the other hand, he’s under a ton of pressure from us and the faculty and needs to clean up this mess.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Perhaps
I don’t have a problem with the decision so much as the way it was executed.
Part of me thinks they deliberately did it in the most dickish way possible just to prove who was in charge. I think it’s important that coaches not be above the board, but there were classier ways to show that.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 1:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
they did it to prove a point
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
What do you think they are going to talk about
In reference to 11am: Overview of Intercollegiate Athletics
http://www.psu.edu/trustees/agenda/schedulejanuary2012.html
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Here is what I think I know.....
from my experiences——-Erickson did an adequate job and it will be a loooooong time till the next “Town Meeting”……. Saying I was not at that(fill in the blanks) meeting just doesn’t work—-get the minutes damnit!….Joe will NOT make a statement until the trial(s) are over and the Independent Councl Investigation is over……the “Boys” that run the BoT are not to be trusted in anything that they do or say….the Media sux……you can’t “unfire” Joe…..never, ever eat at the Soup & Salad Buffet at a strip club where the girls use that particular venue to dance…and finally Joyner, Surma, Lubert, some selected members of 2nd Mile, JS(of course, how would we exist without him) AND SPANIER, All sonsabitches…did I write SPANIER, that asshole?
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Jan 13, 2012 1:05 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Noonan.
The correct pronunciation of the name you called Spanier is ‘Noonan’.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Never play cards with a guy named after a city.
Never get into a land war in Asia.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Derry
I have contended (in my mind at least and to a few others live) that Joe isn’t speaking or issuing a statement about this because he feels it might somehow weaken the prosecution’s case. He will do anything to prevent that because his first cause is to make sure that justice is served for the victims – even if that means his own destruction.
Am I way off base thinking that?
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Ha!
Thanks. I guess I was way off.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
Don't feel bad.
I rationalized Joe’s silence exactly the same way you did.
Dogmatically.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
"Penn State Scandal"
This term bothers me. It is extremely unfair to the victims of JS to term this the “Penn State Scandal”. It elevates PSU’s rather tangential relationship to JS’s conduct to that of primary bad guy and makes everything else involving this matter, including the plight of the victims, of secondary importance. PSU shouldn’t have to own all of JS’s sins.
I am not an alum of PSU (just a fan of the football program), but I have two questions that I want PSU to address: 1.) How will the reporting by university employees of alleged crimes be changed in the wake of the failures with respect to the 2002 incident?; and 2.) What steps will the BoT take to ensure that the next crisis is handled better than the one that developed in the first week of November?
Sigh.
by Esteban d' Amur on Jan 13, 2012 1:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Exactly! How are potential witnesses encouraged to come forward when the two people that reported anything in this situation have lost their jobs and reputations?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Erickson mentioned some of those early on
He said early on that there’d be an ethics officer that would report to the President. This is very sensible. It’s like a compliance officer in a company. Somebody should ask about that.
They also said something about an anonymous tip line. Also a good idea.
I don’t think they can answer #2 until Freeh issues his report.
I expect Freeh might tear into the board a bit in order to prove his independence and because they likely deserve it.
I don’t think all of the board is equally to blame. It’s a huge group. I imagine there are “back benchers” who only speak up on niche topics and just went along with the majority just to be on the side that’s winning so they can cash in the favor later.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 1:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s a huge group
I’ve wondered if it might be too big to ever function effectively. I see no reason that a nine or 15 member board wouldn’t work better. We can call it a board, but it is still a small group — and groups tend to become more dysfunctional as membership increases.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Jan 13, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I should add that more members
makes it easier to diffuse responsibility when something blows up.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
I think in this case we probably see the number of people making the decisions being constant with the number of "sheep" being the variable.
We’re not going to change the structure of the Board. We just need to make sure they know we’re watching. We have never paid attention before. This is a whole new world for them.
Hey, can we start a group that takes turns going to the BOT meetings to be a presence?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Jan 13, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A shadow board could be effective.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Jan 13, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder that as well
On a different thread I looked at the composition of the Boards of the other Big Ten schools and the average size was about 12 members. However, many of them also have very little alumni input (appointed by governors or elected by statewide ballot), which I think is the opposite of what I would want to see happen.
I work for a publicly traded, Fortune 500 company that is recognized for good governance, and we have a Board of just 15. Our directors also must be nominated and elected by shareholders, which means they are accountable for their stewardship. Moreso than the number of members, I see the lack of consequences for poor governance as the real problem with the PSU BoT.
One solution to this might be to give the stakeholders of Penn State (students, faculty, staff, alumni) an advisory vote on the candidates nominated by the governor, ag societies, and industry. Actually, ideally it would be an approval vote (only elected to serve if you get XX% of the vote). However, even an advisory vote would give us some input. It’s similar to the say on pay votes for public companies — your Board can still approve a pay program if it gets a low score on the advisory vote, but it is going to draw scrutiny to do so. Similarly, it would be embarrassing to a governor or industry group for their nominees to receive less than 50% support in the advisory vote, and as such could help in getting them to select better candidates and keep their representatives engaged.
by danpsu97 on Jan 13, 2012 4:14 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
It is just as risky to concentrate power in fewer hands.
There is already an Executive Comm which most folks here seem to think “run” the board. That’s about 9-13, plus or minus. With fewer total members you will lose that diversity and input on “niche topics” (as reedjohnmiller mentions). Unless on hand practically full time, I don’t see how that small an Exec group would cover all the responsibilities now covered by the three standing committees.
I noticed on the board’s site there were only 3 Exec meetings listed over the last three years. One of those was the confirmation of the November actions. So, if that Comm is so important and/or so in charge, when and how do they meet without posting notice?
That's the $64,000 question......
I have previously called radio and TV stations in my area to say that it was never a FB or FB Program OR a PSU Scandal OR a Joe scandal……it was and always will be a Jerry Sandusky (the Media—“who?”) Scandal/Tragedy. The Bot and Spanier can learn from their mistakes—-don’t give a former employee and suspected pedophile his own office and keyys to the kingdom and don’t forget to check on the Board of Trustees at the 2nd Mile——-ooops! too much cross-membership. And the witness(MM) and the people he told were summarily fired or put on “hold” will show potential victims that the PSU Bot et. al. don’t just give a damn….they’re just trying to protect their “phoney-baloney” jobs there( notice the correct use of homonyms) in the Ivory Tower.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Jan 13, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
They can't fire them
McQuery is a key witness against two guys who were acting for the university. He’s a whistleblower. It’s illegal to fire whistleblowers, usually, as it should be. Curley has a job because he isn’t guilty yet. Paterno actually has a job as a tenured faculty, he just isn’t allowed to do any of the duties of that job. Really, his status isnt that different from Curley’s, except that he said he will retire.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 1:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Joe's........
tenured alright, but as you may recall, he’s been fired twice.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Jan 13, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Oh goody, another......
Complaince Officer…….you see how that worked out at tO$U…….they had some crazy number way over the average of any University and they just hired a few more!!! Probably just to check on the other COs.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
Yeah, well
It requires a competent person with the backing of the president.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 1:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am not trying to be smart, but......
I don’t understand your statement.
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Jan 13, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
My take -
If there’s actually a competent, interested person in the office, this could be a good thing.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Joe is doing his first interview with the Washington Post Monday.
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 2:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Wait, or maybe he already did the interview
and she is answering questions about it Monday?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think the interview is tomorrow.
And she’ll be answering questions about the interview on Monday.
I can’t take this seriously based on this paragraph:
Start the conversation now. What do you hope to hear from Joe Paterno in this interview. Can anything he says change your mind about his legacy? Talk about it in the comments and on Twitter using #paternospeaks
This shows the intent of this story has nothing to do with actually getting to the truth, merely to reinvigorate the mass hysteria.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno,
you don’t think he carefully selected the interviewer/venue?
Leaders Co-Champions
by PSUinBOSSton on Jan 13, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I do.
But it’s not the actual interview I’m concerned with. It’s the way the information is handled after the fact and the light it gets presented. If the hysteria leading up to the interview being released is controlled by hate, it’s likely the subsequent stories and speculations will pander to that perspective.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh, that is dissapointing.
I am really surprised he is doing something like this.
Not dissapointed he is doing it
i mean the text SWHA quoted was dissapointing to me. I am surprised though that JoePa is doing an interview now.
I don't think it's disappointing.
I think it’s just the marketing geniuses playing their game – trying to get extra traffic ahead of the release of the interview tomorrow.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Upon further inspection...
The interview was done yesterday, and it will be published tomorrow. WaPo is just trying to drum up page hits in the meantime.
Still, this could be an effective venue to get some of our positions outside the wagon circle, and try to control the narrative from the beginning.
At the end of the day, though, I’m just glad that Joe is getting a chance to put his side of the story out in public.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Jenkins was one of the few who was kinda fair to Joe
Her first column suggested that he was too close to the situation to act entirely rationally so kicking it up to Curley and Schultz was smart. They then totally blew it.
That was the gyst.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Cool
And yes, “Fire Dan Snyder” indeed.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah...
That explains why so many of the commenters on WaPo are calling her a Joe Paterno Apologist® already.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
anyone who has anything unnegative to say about him
even if it’s countered by something negative is an apologist.
I especially love the comment on the announcement that Joe should have “stopped it cold.” Really? How do you suppose he do that?
Fire Dan Snyder
by Cari Greene on Jan 13, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean we really have to accept responsibility
for everything bad that has ever happened or we are delusional pedaphilia supporting morons, accoridng to some.
I went to the Anthony Lubrano / Franco Harris event after the Town Hall
I got there about 8:45 or so, right after the main Town Hall ended. I estimate there were about 250 people in the room at peak. I hung in until about 10:30, at which point there will still about 75 people gathered around.
Lubrano set up the event to be an overflow for those who couldn’t get in to the main town hall, as well as those who just wanted to speak more afterwards. As such, it was an informal setting, with Franco speaking, Lubrano taking the mic from time to time, and the mostly standing crowd interjecting their questions.
Harris spoke of his support for Paterno, and how he cannot support an administration that treated Joe the way they did. He won’t be satisfied unless Joe gets to coach the first 4 games of next season, to make up for the 4 that he didn’t coach at the end of this season (even the decidedly pro-Joe crowd here didn’t seem on-board with that idea). He’ll settle though for Paterno being honored at Beaver Stadium next season for his contributions. Beyond that, a lot of talk about reforming the Board of Trustees and fighting the media to correct inaccuracies about the whole situation.
Lubrano has donated a large amount of money, and thus has the ear of the adminstration and Board. He spoke personally to 17 members of the Board of Trustees since November 5th and is waiting on calls from a few others. He said a couple of interesting things, some of which I know have been stated elsewhere:
1. According to Lubrano, neither Paterno nor Curley knew about the 1998 incident prior to the most recent investigation.
2. The night that the GJ summary was released, Paterno requested a meeting with the Board of Trustees the next day, presumably to talk about what he was told and did. His meeting request was denied.
3. Paterno told Spanier (and the Board was aware too) prior to the 2011 season that he was retiring at the end of the season, and gave them 3 or 4 names of coaches that might be good hires. The adminstration was already taking steps during the season to reach out to those individuals and others (Urban Meyer rumors, anyone?).
4. Lubrano alluded to friction between Surma and Paterno based on a conversation he had (not sure if it was before or after Nov) where Surma stated something to the effect of “who the hell does he think he is dictating to us who should be the next coach”
5. Lubrano was upset that the Town Hall was capped at 600 people and 90 minutes. He asked someone in the administration about streaming it live and was told incredulously, “Do you know how much that costs?!?” I guess they found the money since the NYC meeting tonight is streaming live.
There were representatives present from Penn Staters for Responsible Stewardship and at least two other groups dedicated to reforming the Board of Trustees. They encouraged everyone to go to Facebook and join the groups (a search for “Penn State Board of Trustees” should find them all). At least 4 people in attendence declared their intentions to run for nomination, including Lubrano himself.
Overall, the discussion jumped from topic to topic, but the major themes were disgust over the way Paterno was treated, and the demand for the reform of the Board of Trustees. There was definitely anger and frustration that the Board of Trustees, rather than showing real leadership, tried to deflect all blame to the University president and football coach, and then sent their interim president on a roadshow that looks good but doesn’t provide any real answers of note. I agree with whoever posted above that it didn’t seem like anything productive was accomplished here, but it did give people another chance to vent. Regardless of my personal views on the situation, it was interesting hearing the perspective of other alumni and supporters.
If anyone else was there, please feel free to correct anything I misremembered or add anything else that was interesting that I might have missed.
by danpsu97 on Jan 13, 2012 2:41 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Re: point number two
Of course he was denied – speaking with the BOT directly would have violate Standing Order IX. :eyeroll:
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Infuriating doesn't quite capture the sentiment.
How about enraging?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 13, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you for posting
Appreciate the perspective.
by dontcallmescooter on Jan 13, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
I wonder if all that’s true. I don’t know much about Lubrano except that he’s loaded and that I love, love, love, the ballpark with his name on it.
Interesting that he’s so tight with Joe. Joe has been critical of PSU’s decision to invest in baseball. One of the things I sharply disagree with JoePa about. I see his point, but I disagree.
Why is Joe critical of baseball?
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I don't know if its anti-baseball or pro-hockey
I remember seeing something about when they built the baseball stadium he thought they should build a new ice arena there instead.
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
Yes, that plus...
He said that he doesn’t think PSU should have a professional team sharing a campus facility. (The Spikes are single-A short season.) Given the benefits and facilities offered to his own program, I think that shows he has a rather outdated idea of the distinction between amateur and professional.
The fact that he lost on that issue is one of many things that disproves the canard that “Joepa ran Penn State.”
He also suggested that he just thinks baseball is a no-win situation in the north. Other than Oregon and Oregon State (which get almost all of their players from California) no northern teams do much on the national level of NCAA baseball (although the Big East – St John’s in particular, are pretty good).
He might be right about that, but I think Penn State ought to at least be able to build a baseball program that can occasionally win the Big 10 (they’ve only won it once) and with the great ballpark, it would be nice to see more people coming out to their games. I like to go. The guys show great energy and the games are entertaining. Sometimes, there’s even some serious talent on the field.
The problem is that it’s still pretty damn cold in the spring in State College. Last year the opening day give-away was a fleece scarf that said PSU baseball. Pretty cool, but that tells you what the weather was like. First time I ever bought coffee at a ballgame to warm up.
Baseball is PSU’s oldest sport and it’s not like baseball is unpopular in PA. PSU should have a baseball team.
Also, Joepa is still bitter about the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. Understandable.
I’m really excited about hockey and I like baseball too. I’m really glad that PSU has both.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LULZ
to JoePa being bitter about the Bums skipping town. I thought Joe totally missed the bus on the minor league park. The Spikes have been a really terrific addition to State College, and I think it actually serves as a pretty nice model for how university communities can pool resources to enrich quality of life for the town and gown. I wish they did a little more marketing for the PSU baseball team, but I am sure there are pretty tight budgetary constraints.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Go Spikes!
The Spikes are a fantastic addition. State College can be really boring in the summer. The Spikes are a huge help. For me, at least. I like going to the Curve too, but Altoona is kind of a long way to go for a ballgame.
I think Eugene, OR has also adopted the college/minors model for their relatively new baseball program. Fargo ND has a similar deal with NDSU and the RedHawks (independent league). A baseball field isn’t good for much other than baseball, so it needs to be shared to be valuable.
I wish PSU would market all of its spring sports more effectively, but I think they’re trying harder than they used to. The games are on the radio now, for example. Some games are on the BTN. It all helps.
The new softball park is pretty sweet too, btw. I’d never been to a real softball game before last year. It’s very unique. The field is so small, you feel like you’re right on top of the action.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 14, 2012 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
Since I work in higher education, let me preface by acknowledging that I'm bringing serious bias here.
With that out of the way, I have a deeply rooted distrust of university administrators. Hell, I worked under Mark Emmert, the archetypal skin-shedder. We create the illusion (delusion?) in academia of an open, pluralist, self-governing democracy. It is not.
The problem is that these guys are primarily fund-raisers. As such, the skill set that has driven their rise to power is that of the ultimate rhetorical reflector — these guys are adept at sniffing around for what you want them to say, and then saying it. It is the same skill set that is deployed to get laid or to cheat the elderly out of their life savings.
If they also bring governance skills to the table, then that is happy lagniappe. But don’t count on them being competent when crisis arises, when tough decisions must be made.
Finally, let me qualify everything above with a blanket ’in general," except the part about Mark Emmert.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Jan 13, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well said
That could be said about a lot of things. Just because you’re good at whatever it is your organization does, doesn’t mean you’re fit to manage it.
But your point about fundraising is particularly important. That’s what so many people don’t get about university presidents. They aren’t like professors. At least not by the time they rise that high. it’s not even clear to me that having been a prof ought to even be a prerequisite to be a president, although I’m sure no faculty would like a non-academic in charge.
Universities also need some kind of lawyer or Chief Lawsuit Predictor who can protect the institution from itself. PSU really could have used that here.
As I understand it, athletic directors are also very into fund-raising. That’s why a guy like Barry Alvarez can move right into the AD seat at Wisconsin nd how a douche like Mike Garrett got to be the AD at USC. They’re the guys the alums want to hang out with.
Directing an athletic department should be it’s own profession with masters programs and what not to train people how to do it, not just a way for the ex football coach or ex sports hero to ease into retirement.
I don’t know exactly what background would be ideal, but I suppose somebody with a good business and marketing background would help. Perhaps somebody who’d been high up in the front office of a big league franchise of some kind.
Iowa, I believe, has or had a separate athletic director for women’s sports. I don’t know if PSU needs that. Attendance and interest in some women’s sports is on par with the male equivalents – volleyball, most notably. I don’t think Curley or any of those guys took a condescending view toward women’s sports.
Of course, at some small schools and high schools, one of the coaches is the AD. And that’s how it used to be at PSU when Joepa was AD. That’s just too much work for one human to do. My understanding is that he never saw his kids in those days and that’s why he quit.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Universities also need some kind of lawyer or Chief Lawsuit Predictor who can protect the institution from itself. PSU really could have used that here.
Most universities, including Penn State have this. It’s called a general counsel. Unfortunately, general counsels aren’t telepathic. Had Curley or Schultz consulted them in 2002, I imagine this would be a very different conversation.
For the most part,
I was enculturated to think that it is wise (vogue?) to distrust any academic who aspires to an administrative position. Dean is the only office which is given a pass — a fair number of service-minded women and men make that choice benevolently. But once you head in the direction of vice-provost, you’re heading into that terrain will viewed as suspect.
On a side note: You’ve surfaced an interesting side issue. Specifically, the AD position has proven to be singularly bulletproof glass ceiling for women. The pal-around-with-Mike-Garrett process is how that glass is manufactured.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
by SubLime on Jan 13, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maryland has a female AD
I’m not impressed with her recent work.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 9:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought she was replaced
with someone else (a male) and she went to NC State or another school? So she was not the one who hired Edsall.
Fire Dan Snyder
Was she?
I think you’re right.
I’m not paying much attention to them anymore since I moved away from the DC area over a year ago.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 14, 2012 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
Debbie Yow, she's at NC State now
"WHY IS EVERYONE THE FREAKING STUPID?" BMAN13
by kijana's acl on Jan 14, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
While not separate directorship, Charmelle Green is Associate Athletic Director overseeing women's sports.
There is also Jenn James, an Assistant Athletic Director overseeing women’s basketball. She, as probably do others, wears multiple hats as the seasons change.
BTW am keeping a Jan 7 Lady Lion program showing Tom Bradley pictured as HC for football (no interim noted!!).
I might not know the inside scoop
But I’ve always thought that PSU has historically been a leader in women’s sports in a lot of ways. Not just winning, but always among the first to start a program in whatever women’s sport the NCAA adds next.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 9:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I do know
that PSU was among the national leaders in effective implementation of Title IX. While many other schools fought losing court battles against it or just dicked around with compliance, PSU aggressively moved in the opposite direction. So when other schools were stuck having to eliminate their wrestling programs and other desperate measures, Penn State cruised along offering one of the widest selections of Olympic sports in the country.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
Almost every sport, right?
I think the only sports PSU doesn’t have that the NCAA sponsors are:
rowing – PSU has a strong club team, but no nearby water makes it hard
W bowling – ?
Water Polo – maybe someday. Some PA high school have it.
rifle – you’d think that would be popular in PA
skiing – 40 degrees and raining most of the winter doesn’t help.
If rugby ever becomes an NCAA sport, PSU will be well-placed to have strong men’s and women’s programs.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 14, 2012 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
SubLime, your comments are spot-on.
I am not on the academic side of “my” institute of higher ed — I work in the Campus Administration area, but that side is seamy. Executive management will say one thing today, and do a complete 180 tomorrow. When they are called on their lies, they deny, claim to have been misquoted, etc., etc.
Some parts of the handling of the lacrosse scandal at Duke are still in point of contention on campus, but the viewpoint that the administration badly mishandled the situation is almost universal. Sadly, those administrators are still there . . . .
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
They didn't have an in-house general counsel in 2002
This is not well known, but I think it’s a major factor in the f’up. They had outside counsel, but that’ s not really the same, is it?
They didn’t get their own in-house GC until a few years ago after some internal study suggested it might be a good idea. Based on the way all of this has gone down, I’m not sure she’s well suited to the job, to be honest. For example, Curley and Schultz didn’t have their own lawyers at first. They had PSU lawyers. That was apparently her idea and there’s some question as to the ethics of that. I’m not sure of the details.
I can’t understand how a $5 billion a year enterprise would think it was good enough just to have some guy on retainer.
I don't think LSU had one in 1997, and perhaps later.
I don’t pay enough attention. Anyway, 1997 is the year that Ben Wynne drank himself to death during the fall semester fraternity indoctrination. The university caught serious negative, national attention, but nothing like what PSU has shouldered (had he been a known athlete it would have moved more in the Len Bias direction).
The early legal response was likely a few phone calls to a couple of local lawyers from the finest Baton Rouge, In Register families. Or, perhaps to balance viewpoints, touching base with an old assistant of Earl K. Long.
Now, we get directives regularly that reek of lawyers.*
*This sentiment is not based on any BSD member living or dead.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
Most universities didn't have one until recently or still don't
I read that somewhere.
So PSU wasn’t an outlier on that. It still seems ridiculous.
Can you imagine what the Len Bias thing would be like if they had the Internet and cable news back then?
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 9:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Franco's goal is unrealistic
I attended the Philly town hall as well as the Lubrano/Harris after party.
I think Anthony Lubrano and Franco both have their hearts in the right place, but they seem to be focused on different things.
Anthony is really focused on the BoT, which i think is an area he could make an impact.
Franco kept repeating that he wants JoePa reinstated as head coach for the first four games next season so that he gets back the four games that he wasn’t allowed to coach last season, and then be able to resign and have O’Brien take over. He said if Joe isn’t reinstated then he will not attend the first four games next seasons.
So while Anthony will probably accomplish getting 3 BoT’s replaced, all Franco will accomplish is freeing up four weekends next fall!
Again, I love their passion for getting justice for JoePa, but Franco needs to put his energy where it can actually make a difference. If anyone saw the picture of Joe yesterday, I don’t think he could physically stand on the sideline for a game let alone coach. He looks pretty bad.
Just my thoughts.
by Lovethosefreakinnittanylions on Jan 14, 2012 1:34 PM EST reply actions
I think Franco, like many of us,
is looking for a meaningful way to right the wrong(s) done to Joe, and for Franco, that means trying to put some of the toothpaste back into the tube. His idea is not the best one — frankly, I am beginning to be concerned if JoePa will survive until next season — but it is his way of finding redress.
I’d like to think that if the administration gets off the crapper and does find a meaningful and significant way to honor Joe Paterno (the man, if not the coach), that Franco will change his tune. But, as long as the administration and the BoT continue to spew weak and nebulous comments as to Joe’s exact status and ways to honor him, people will fill in the blanks with their own ideas.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 14, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting questions at last night's town hall
A young alumni asked Erickson last night if the BoT was waiting for a funeral to honor Joe and Sue and pressed him on what type of recognition they were thinking of and asked him to be specific.
At the town hall in Philly, Erickson said they hadn’t thought about it and they would soon discuss it, but in NY he said that Alumni should drive what it is and that we should send in our suggestions.
I honestly don’t think they have any plan or intention to honor them and that he just said that in response to a question that was asked in Pittsburgh. Once he said it, he can’t pull away from it so he is stuck figuring out what to do when none of them, according to Lubrano and Harris, have even called him since he was fired and didn’t visit him when he was in the hospital.
I hope your feeling that he might not make it until next season is wrong, but based on the picture I saw of him yesterday you sadly may not be far off.
by Lovethosefreakinnittanylions on Jan 14, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Coaching for Joe again is unrealistic
but what would start to set things straight would be President Lackey and the BOT’s standing on a dais in the center of a packed Beaver Stadium and simply saying, “We acted too quickly and with insufficient facts in the relieving Mr. Paterno of his coaching duties. We sincerely apologize for that action and the public perception it created.” Period. End of Story.
My money says none of them have the huevos to do anything like it.
by cs93 on Jan 14, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Urban Dictionary
indicates it’s an acceptable substitute. How about this?
“My money says the BOT’s don’t have the BALLS.”
Spanish is clearly not my second language.
Huevos is a common euphemism for testicles in Spanish.
Much like when we call them nuts.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions

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