IMO, The "Phone Call" Was The Best Option Available Under The Circumstances: Running the Alt-Reality Scenarios.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 11:47 AM EST
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IMO, the firing of Coach Paterno via a phone call was the best option available under the circumstances.
Take as a "given" that the BOT needed to fire Coach Paterno on Wednesday, November 9th. Obviously, this has been, can and will be argued forever. But, if the BOT needed to fire him on Wednesday, attempting a face-to-face meeting on November 9th would have been a disaster.
Factual and Normative Considerations:
item 1: there is no photo or video currently associated with the firing of Coach Paterno; no Youtube can be posted, no enduring seminal photo that will show up in books, telecasts, documentaries, etc., and, imo, this is a good thing for PSU:
item 2: there were between 300-500 reporters on campus as of Tuesday (Nov. 8) and continuing throughout Weds and over to Thursday morning;
item 3: there were hundreds if not thousands of students milling about on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights all over the campus and camped around Coach Paterno's house;
item 4: given items 2 and 3, there was no way to have a face-to-face conversation without it becoming public and, therefore, being recorded via photo and video which, imo, would have been bad;
item 5: however it would have been accomplished, a face-to-face firing of Coach Paterno would have created enormous symbolic problems for PSU which would have been bad.
Let's consider possible scenarios.
Scenario 1: Coach Paterno is summoned before the BOT at Old Main (or anywhere). Coach Paterno says "hell, no."
Some really bad narrative/symbolism there. This would have reinforced the idea that Coach Paterno was bigger than Penn State and the BOT. If Coach Paterno was not --- did not see himself ---- as "bigger than PSU," then why is he refusing to go to the BOT? And, since he is "bigger than PSU," then therefore, he must have known, clearly had the power to and should have done something about Sandusky.
To be clear, I am not making that argument. I am positing that such an argument could of/would of been made had Coach Paterno refused to be summoned to the BOT.
Scenario 2: Coach Paterno is summoned before the BOT at Old Main (or anywhere). He complies. He and Mrs. Paterno walk ---- yeah, no.
He and Mrs. Paterno get in their silver-colored car and drive to Old Main. A media/student frenzy ensues. [A reminder: on Tuesday, November 8, 2011, various media stories were written/published about the reporters chasing Coach and Mrs. Paterno as she drove him to football practice. Reporters Chasing Paterno's Car.]
If there is no entrance to Old Main (or where ever else chosen) that is private, then the media video/photos are of Mrs. and Coach Paterno surrounded by reporters as they walk into Old Main to be fired with questions being shouted, flashbulbs going off, etc. Then there would be subsequent video/photos of them leaving. More questions are shouted; maybe Coach Paterno stops and makes a statement; security is needed; students are angry; chaos; circus; etc. etc.
IMO, none of that is good. Future books would have written the story of Coach Paterno being summoned to his own "execution" and the images and video would have preserved the moments forever.
Maybe there is a way to enter Old Main (or where ever) with a car that is non-public. If so, then, the "walk in" and "walk out" are avoided, but the drive home will be just as chaotic. The narrative would still have been "summoned to his own execution" with video of the drive there and the drive home. All bad, imo.
Scenario 3 with about 100 sub-scenarios (all bad): Garban and Surna go to the Paternos' house to fire him (not Spanier, because Spanier is being or already has been fired).
The symbolism here is beyond bad. Again, this would have supported the media narrative of Coach Paterno as the King of Happy Valley. If Coach Paterno is not the King of Happy Valley, then why are the Pres and VP of the BOT going to his house? And, as King of Happy Valley, he coulda/shoulda done something about Sandusky. [Again, not my argument.]
But, for now, put aside the really bad symbolism and let's run the various sub-scenarios.
Garban and Surna walk from Old Main (or where ever) ... okay no.
They drive; same media/student circus frenzy.
They arrive at the Paternos' house. More media/student frenzy. There are no police; full chaos. Or, the police are there in full riot gear. There are not enough police (or maybe there are too many.) Can Garban and Surna even walk up the sidewalk? Again, really compelling video and images. It is 9-10 pm eastern time on Wednesday night (or maybe it is the afternoon?). Folks all over the world start tuning in on tv and the internet. Media talking heads are breathlessly describing the events as Garban and Surna try to reach Coach Paterno's front door. Grainy jittery video on CNN..... Someone throws a water bottle ....
Despite the water bottle, Garban and Surna finally reach the front door. They ring the doorbell.... nothing happens. They try again and again; ten minutes later, they leave.
Now, THERE is some bad symbolism and narrative.
or ..... Garban and Surna finally reach the door. Mrs. Paterno is there and sticks her head out. She is sad and looks a bit frightened, a somewhat disembodied head to the side of the screen door tilted to an almost 45 degree angle, her glasses magnifying her weary red-rimmed eyes and her hair tousled. 1,000,000 flashbulbs go off. The AP photo runs on the front page of 29 newspapers, wins seven awards, subsequently appears in 243 books and is later summarized by one Paterno biographer as follows: "the way her head is titled, with just the head and some fingers being visible at the side of the door, the eerie bug-like eyes, the hair draping like wet straw: it was the perfect photographic representation of the surrealism that was occurring in State College at that time."
Anyway, Mrs. Paterno gets Garban and Surna in the front door as quickly as possible.
Now everyone waits.
Two minutes later, Garban and Surna re-appear.... 1,000 shouted questions, the students are in a frenzy..... everyone is outraged.... "only two minutes!!!!" Garban and Surna try to get to their car; the students and media block their path; the police try and clear a path; someone throws a water bottle ....
or .... Garban and Surna finally reach their car and drive slowly, through the chaotic night, through the crowds of students and media while 1,000 questions rain down upon them, to Old Main. Then Surna starts the press conference and the first 30 questions are about what was said at Paterno's house including "why did you go to Coach Paterno's house?" and Cory Geiger's question: "Did SuePa offer any refreshments?"
or .... try again: Two hours later, Garban and Surna re-appear. 1,000 shouted questions, the students are in a frenzy.... everyone is outraged.... "What were you talking about for two hours????!!!" [As an aside, from thereon until the end of time, Garban and Surna and the Paterno family are endlessly asked by media and everyone else about what was said during that two hour meeting.]
or .... try again: An hour later .... try again: Twenty minutes later ....
No matter how long the meeting, the same chaos ensues when Garban and Surna come back out, the same circus at the eventual press conference and the same video and photos forever preserving the moments. None of this is good.
Other Options And Summary:
It seems clear to me that no private face-to-face meeting was possible with Coach Paterno on Wednesday, November 9th. And any attempted face-to-face would have resulted in horrific symbolic problems for PSU and unwanted photographic and video images.
Even if you reject the scenarios above, imo, the scenarios are not beyond the realm of possible. IMO, PSU could not even risk these possibilities.
The other options: letter, phone or internet/Skype (if technologically possible).
IMO, at least they had the guts to call and fire him voice-to-voice.
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Why not a video conference?
Why not set up a meeting via video conference where Paterno can at least address what he knew prior to being fired? This completely negates their need to fire him entirely if he’s able to provide an appropriate defense for his alleged inactions. Based on the reasons he provides, the board can then say the following:
“We have spoken with Coach Paterno and have heard his understanding of the events. We are going to evaluate the apparent contradictions between his account and the accounts in the Grand Jury Presentment and will take further action once more facts are known.”
In order to accomplish this, it would’ve taken sending a runner with a laptop w/camera instead of just a phone number.
I don’t think the fact that he was fired by phone is most people’s major grievance with his firing. The primary issues are that he was fired without evidence and without any attempts to be able to defend himself. The phone call is just the icing on the cake in terms of their cowardly actions. I do agree with you that if they were going to fire him, then via phone was at least the most practical. The best option though was to not force rash action in the first place.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 11:58 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
i agree re: the "inability to defend himself."
and, if what you say in your last sentence is true, then fair enough. i’ve just seen so many comments focusing on the phone call and that just seems the wrong focus point (with respect).
but, in truth, maybe saying “the Phone Call” is just a short-hand way of saying the Board mishandled the firing, should have given him a chance to give his side of the story, etc.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize for going so far off of your intentions with this post.
I am in complete agreement that in the hypothetical situation that they had to fire Paterno at that moment, the way they handled it was most likely the best. I think the overall perception of the event is cowardice, but you make a lot of very valid points. The lack of any photos to associate with this action is very likely the biggest positive to come out of it. That space was quickly filled by the riots in which the general public considered Penn State students to be supporters of child abuse instead of taking the time to understand why they were angry, but I think the case can be made that even this is better than photos of an “executed” Paterno as you put it.
I think perspectives such as this are very valuable as the prevent steamrolling through our judgments. It’s very easy to look at this situation and say “I believe the first action was wrong, and I believe the final action was wrong” and to very quickly pass through all the intermediate actions and throw them on the “bad” pile. While I question whether or not the BoT actually put this much thought into their decision to take action via phone call, I do think you have supported that those actions were likely the best available.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 13, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
no apologies needed; it's a long post with lots of possible jumping off points.
i’ve contemplated this FanPost for awhile; but for awhile, it seemed the outrage about the "phone call’ seemed to be dying down. now with the townhall meetings, I am seeing that point made over and over again.
and, with respect, most of the commentors seem to be making the point NOT to be merely a side point or a supporting point, but as a point with its own merit sitting along side all the other valid points (e.g., Paterno needed an opportunity to tell his side, BOT threw him under the bus, etc.). But, to me, the alt-reality has some really ugly possibilities and, if they did nothing else right, at least the BOT did not try and have a face-to-face on Wednesday.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
For me, the whole way it was handled would be a lot easier to take/understand
if I knew that at some point, someone in authority at PSU had taken the time to explain to Paterno why it would be in the best interests of the university as a whole for him to go on administrative leave or resign immediately. If that was done at some point prior to Wednesday night (and done by someone that Paterno respected/trusted) and Paterno refused—then I agree that the BOT had no other choice.
There has been no evidence that this was attempted. Maybe it was and the university just isn’t saying so—although I have a hard time believing that, especially since it would deflect from their actions and paint Paterno as the real villain. By their other actions, they don’t seem to have much compuction about doing that.
agree with this also and with your sense that no one from the BOT has given that explanation to Coach Paterno. The BOT can't even explain it to the public at these Townhall Meetings; doubt they can explain it to anyone.
one point to add, tho: Coach Paterno is a sophisticated man. He knew there was a media firestorm focusing on him. I think that is why he announced on Wednesday morning that he was going to retire. I also think that is why he put a small mea culpa (sp?) in his retirement statement. So Coach Paterno may not really need an explanation. Plus, he knows all these actors. He knows who supported him on the BOT and who wanted him out. He may well know EXACTLY who did the “dirty deed” and why.
As an aside, re: his announcement: If you look closely at the media reaction to his announcement (which came out pretty early on Wednesday morning), it took several hours before the media reacted. And as I watched various articles and comments being posted, it was not clear which way the media/public would go. Coach Paterno took an educated gamble in announcing his retirement. It might have worked.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I partially agree with your logic, but I disagree with you initial assumption.
Why was there a requirement that this be solved Wednesday night? In my opinion, making the announcement that night was another of the numerous bad moves by the BoT. Many students and alumni knew that if an announcement was made at 10:30 PM there would be riots (or riot-like gatherings). Wasn’t there even a question about that by one of the reporters at the press conference? The BoT should have instead waited until morning to make the announcement. It wasn’t like the media firestorm would have gotten substantially worse from 10:30 PM to 8:00 AM.
by VVeRPennState on Jan 13, 2012 12:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Precisely
What was stopping them from staying holed up in the Penn Stater, issuing a statement saying they were carefully considering many matters not just Paterno and Spanier and would be deliberating long into the night (even if they were done and just played cards until 2 am), and calling a press conference at 8am to announce their decision?
I am a Penn State Nittany Lion, and I played for the legendary Joe Paterno, and more importantly, I am a man because of it. - Lavar Arrington
100% agree and that is one reason that I put that out there as a "given."
No question it can be argued that the BOT could have waited, could have gotten a video conference call or some such and spent much more time on whether to fire Coach Paterno at all. Wait until Thursday. I honest do not know why Wednesday seemed to be “THE DAY.”
Moreover, there was plenty -— plenty -— of time before the indictment to get Paterno’s side of the story and prepare for this becoming more public. I think the tepid reaction from the media/public to the March 2011 story lulled the BOT into thinking this was going to be a non-story. But certainly, they had all summer to coordinate with Coach Paterno and everyone else.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
"I honestly do not know why Wednesday seemd to be 'THE DAY'"
Well according to one account of a BoT member, it HAD to be Wednesday because that’s when the media was demanding an answer, and there was a whole phalanx of them outside.
So yep, just another reason why I’m disappointed in the BoT.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 13, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
One Problem
The BoT may have been concerned with news of their decision to fire Paterno leaking to the press and getting reported before they had a chance to inform Paterno himself of the decision. This is the only reason I can think of that even remotely makes sense as to why they felt they had to fire him that evening.
by catesinator on Jan 16, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Please explain
how you think that leak would have occurred. They were in closed session, and obviously agreed to a vow of silence (even now, very little has emerged about what exactly was discussed, who if anyone was opposed to firing Joe, etc.), etc., etc., etc.
Sorry, you are positing a very weak argument that still casts the BoT in an extremely negative light. I’m fine with viewing them like that, but it appears your comments are intended to portray the BoT as being “better” than they were/are. Better luck next time.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 16, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Call me "naive"
but too many of your hypotheticals deal with the impact on the media/pictures/videos/etc. and the potential responses from same. Screw all that. If a major litmus test of character is, “Will you do the right thing in the dead of night when no one is looking?” another test should be, “Will you do the right thing when EVERYONE is looking?” Against that standard, the BoT failed miserably, and compounded it when they made statements such as “We have reviewed all the facts.”
Personally, I can’t think of a single thing the BoT did correctly that night. As a matter of fact, their actions ought to be a B-school study of what NOT to do when confronted with a crisis. The fact that they keep picking at the sore indicates they suspect their own actions were reprehensible, and so they keep searching for a way to polish their own turds.
Good article, WarBuck, but no sale here. Sorry!
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 12:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i have never been to State College. so I do not know the geography of various possible venues for a face-to-face meeting.
my premise is admittedly based on the physical presence of some many students and media members. if there are possible venues that could have been used to avoid the students/media, then many of my arguments are invalid.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 13, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Why meet in State College?
Plenty of boards do not meet at the corporate HQ — some even proclaim, “For the next three hours, the HQ for XYZ Corporation is here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.” According to Erickson and even some posters here, the Board began to see the outlines of this situation months before the crap storm hit — more failure by the Board/Spanier.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I usually can see a hundred shades of grey in an issue.
This one is black and white to me. People can rationalize it all they want, PR image issues or whatever. Joe Paterno deserved to be told to his face. I don’t care if the Executive Committee needed a state police escort to go to Joe’s house or to bring him to Old Main, that is what they should have done.
by CvilleLion on Jan 13, 2012 1:06 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
^ This, 100000000000000 times.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 13, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Police escort is sensible.
Also, they could have met at my house, but I didn’t know who to call to volunteer.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 13, 2012 2:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How can you....
Take as a “given” that the BOT needed to fire Coach Paterno on Wednesday, November 9th.???? THEY DID NOT "NEED’ TO DO ANYTHING.
He had just offered to retire at the end of the season, so the media pressure on his end had an immediate release valve. Given a couple of days, calm would have ensued. But the BoT panicked and stirred it all up again.
JoePa’s been handling the media for decades, even has a communications course that studies his history. The Bot are just a bunch of friggin amaturs and they showed their cheeks.
by TonyLion on Jan 13, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
exactly
no offense, WarBuck, but I read the initial premise, and rejected the rest of what you said.
by The JuggerNitt on Jan 13, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto to this
Interesting excursion tho, endless branches and sequels possible
In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them
I know how it should have been handled: He shouldn't have been fired.
Anything else is horseshit.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
by MainLion on Jan 13, 2012 8:57 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Exactly...
At the time, many seemed to think that Paterno’s “I’m retiring at the end of the season, so the board shouldn’t spend one more minute on me, they have more important issues” (paraphrasing here as I don’t recall the exact quote) statement to be sort of a dig at the BOT or perhaps even insubordinate. With the benefit of hindsight, I disagree violently; in reality, Joe was correct. The board and admin had far more pressing “damage control” to attend to than ensuring that there would be a football coaching change. It is possible that the continuation of Joe as HC to season end would have enabled the “media circus” but there is no way to know that. See TonyLion’s comment above, agree completely. What happened was a power play, a chance for the admin/BOT to show they had the power to wipe away the “Paterno Empire.” When you really look at what the admin/BOT did to address the Sandusky “thing” itself, all they really did was fire some people (or put on leave or whatever), start an internal investigation, and create some PSAs on abuse. Otherwise, as I see it they did very little if anything to maintain the reputation of Penn State and address the issues that allowed the alleged “thing” to happen, so that it wouldn’t happen again.
by 84lion on Jan 14, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Nope, I Reject This Out of Hand
No offense, but this has to be handled professionally. The idea that because reporters were around, they couldn’t hold a meeting is pure baloney. The “given” that the board had to fire Joe, is baloney too.
Clearly, what we had was a spooked group of unprepared politicians who panicked. They wanted to throw someone to the wolves, so lacking any women or children…they threw Joe. Utter cowardice.
In addition, the idea that you would announce it at 10:30pm is criminal stupidity. What exactly did they think would happen? If you wait 12 hours and do it in the daylight when kids are in class, then there are no riots. No riots and this situation looks lot less interesting from the media’s point of view.
No, I refuse to let the BOT off the hook for any of this. I want clear, reasonable justifications from the group. Lacking that, I will continue to call for their ouster. At least they will have the courtesy of seeing it coming.
by 87Townie on Jan 15, 2012 12:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Don't buy it....
I think students still would have rioted the following evening if Paterno had been fired at 8am the next day. State College was a powderkeg of emotions waiting for some kind of ignition source.
by catesinator on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for sharing
your opinion.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 16, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
It is amazing how many people
seem to confuse what a fact is, versus what an opinion is.
Let me help them:
It is fact when I say it, just an opinion when you say it.
LOLZ
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 16, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but...
At 10:30pm on a wednesday I was often found drinking beer. While we didn’t have spontaneous street mobbing back then, I guarantee I would have been there doing something stupid.
However, it’s less likely if I have time to reflect on it.
The "riots" were bigger after the NC's.
I was at State in 1983 and working in SC in 1986. People talking about the recent “riot” are hyper-inflating the actions of a relative handful — that serves their agenda, of course, even if it is untruthful from an objective standpoint.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 16, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not gonna lie. I didn't read your post.
I already know what I need to know about the BOT. FUCK the BOT. That is all.
by PSUEnrg02 on Jan 15, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I might forgive the phone call firing if I believed that was anywhere near the biggest blunder the BOT committed that evening.
The biggest was announcing this after 10:00 at night so that the PSU students, which were clearly going to assemble at the least, would be made to look like fools all over the media*.
Not only did the rush to fire him create circumstances ripe for rioting, it also made the BOT look like they had rushed to judgment and caved into the media. And it makes it pretty clear they didn’t deliberate or think too hard about whether to fire him or use any number of other possible solutions that prevent him from coaching the Nebraska game (which I personally think WAS necessary, but even if you don’t, they didn’t deliberate long on his firing) or how to present their decision to the press in a way that doesn’t do further harm to PSU’s brand.
I don’t know what the board does on a regular basis for this University, really, but I do know that they seem to have made bad decisions relating to just about all of the responsibilities they had in handling this crisis.
*I’m surprised the riot was not much more calamitous than it was. And, the most concentrated of the damage and bad behavior appears to have been at least directed toward the media, which we are still talking about as a primary cause for Paterno’s firing. So, I’ve never been happy about those riots, but given the situation I think the response was surprisingly measured (after all, bigger riots have occurred at PSU with almost no discernible trigger). Honestly, I think the BOT really lucked out or their actions would be under a much bigger magnifying glass.
by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 16, 2012 9:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
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