Phil Knight
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Years ago I read an article on Nike and Phil Knight.
And I did not like what I read. I didn’t like the way the company operated or its attitude. From then on I avoided Nike products.
But this eulogy changes everything for me. I am now open and in fact probably leaning towards purchasing Nike products again.
Along the same lines, I don’t know if this was ever posted here (probably in the 1000s of posts since Joe passed), but I thought Franco’s statement was excellent. Here it is and I’ll give the link, too. As usual, the comments are mostly a jive collection of hatred from bitter Pitt fans.
"I visited Joe on Friday and Saturday. I want to thank the Paterno family for allowing me to share Joe during those last precious days.
"It was special to see his grown kids and his young grandkids surrounding him and telling him how much they love him. They were not ready to see him leave – so they kept repeating "Fight Joe, fight! "
“People say that every day is a fight. A lot of the time you have to fight alone. Sometimes you help others fight. And sometimes you need others to help you fight. Joe would open his eyes, and once in a while raise his eyebrows when his grandkids were saying "Keep fighting Grandpa." That kept him fighting.
”By Sunday morning Joe was at Peace. That brave fight he undertook was now at its end.
"Joe had told us that he did not want to be bitter. Saying that after what he had to endure he is a better man than I am. But none of us were surprised. In his last interview he said "I know who I am." And we all know who you are.
“I know you’re shaking your finger at me as I say this, but
”You’re the greatest coach in College Football history.
“You’re the greatest man in Penn State History. But more than all of that, you’re the greatest husband, father, and grandfather that I have ever met.
"Thank you Joe. We love you Joe. And you will live on through all of us.
"I saw a rainbow today. I don’t think it was a coincidence.
“Franco Harris
http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/32470-franco-on-joepa
by J Breezy on Jan 27, 2012 6:07 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Maybe, just maybe......
one of these coming days my tears will dry up, maybe….there is nothing more that I can say about the marvelous and statesman type sendoff that Joe received….we all know that Joe affected, and I don’t think I go overborad here, hundred of thousands of lives during his lifetime…..the service at tBJC will never be duplicated or seen again; what a perfect blend of speakers, especially Phil Knight, MRob, Charlie Pittman and of course Jay….my Pops has some local and national Fame, but I don’t really think I could speak at his service…..and may I add again, you could not have picked a better dias for this event….Gob bless you Joe and your loving and Family that you and Sue have conceived….I have to stop for now…..
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God."
by DerryPharmer on Jan 27, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 12 recs
Todd Blackledge
Hey,
Does anyone have the transcript of the poem that Blackledge read at the memorial?
Phil Knight's eulogy takes on deeper significance
when you consider that his “hero” Joe Paterno would never go for wild pro-combat designs in his football uniforms.
Knight obviously understands the Penn State brand never did and probably never will need that kind of help.
Phil Knight
I was lucky enough to be there yesterday. When Knight walked out my initial thoughts were that he would be self serving and use this chance to announce a monetary gift. Like J Breezy, my opinion was not that high on Phil Knight. My opinions were based on the book "Bowerman And the Men of Oregon. Bill Bowerman was, like our Joe Paterno, was an amazing man who led the University of Oregon both athletically and morally. I felt that Knight’s actions were counter to Bowerman’s core values.
Yesterday, my mind was changed. You could see that Knight was devastated by the loss of Joe. You could hear the admiration in his voice. Most importantly, you could feel the anger that we all feel in his words. The fact that this powerful “outsider” said the words that I (and I assume we) wanted to say for so long, was very moving for me. I am now a Knight fan.
by jbolt1971 on Jan 27, 2012 9:35 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
I watched the christening of the new arena at Oregon last year.
That event turned my opinion of Knight. The speeches were eloquent; the values expressed were noble. His son Matthew for whom the building is dedicated was quite a guy and Phil looks to have had everything to do with that.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
My wife is going to be so surprised when I purchase or say I want some Nike product.
She knows they’re on “my list” and will be wondering how they ever got off of it (it’s not easy to get off my list of companies/people I will never do business with again). But being cool to Joe Paterno, especially at this time, is something that can work miracles.
FWIW
Joe Paterno/Penn State have been in business with Nike forever. Nike is Phil Knight, and Penn State wears whatever shoes Joe Paterno says to wear. There is no doubt that Penn State is one of the first schools to give Nike an exclusive shoe contract, and I bet Penn State was the first. I mean before 1994, probably going back into the early to mid 1980’s. It’s certainly not scientific, but I only saw Nikes on the field in the Fiesta Bowl.
Getting involved with college athletics, first with shoes, and then with uniforms and the like have make Phil Knight billions. With a B billions. I’ve never had a problem with Nike, because they have supported Penn State athletics for more than a generation. It made perfect sense to me that Phil Knight would be loyal to Joe Paterno. In retrospect I’d have been stunned if he wasn’t.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I always looked at the Nike swoosh
as a blemish. A scar on our noble uniform. From now on it will be viewed as a badge of honor. Thank you Phil Knight for the public slap in the face to the sniveling, spineless, and thoughtless BOT.
Black shoes, basic blues, no names, all game.
by JIMPSU on Jan 27, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Nike has been good to PSU
All of the different teams’ uniforms are classy, simple and good quality. And the stuff they sell at Lions Pride et al is usually very nice. Not cheap, but nice stuff.
The swoosh is a small price to pay for free stuff. It saves the program a lot of money.
Adidas stuff is ok, especially their classic stuff, but PSU should definitely stick with Nike. It’s part of the look now. Adidas would want to incorporate their three stripes.
Reebok looks crap. They totally botched that needless NHL redesign, for example. Under makes good stuff but I still associate it with high school lacrosse players that still think its cool to spread eyeblack all over their face.
I recall a few years back Fresno State’s sponsor was No Fear. Really.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 10:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As a lifelong Steelers fan, I've always loved Franco Harris.
These last two months have taken my admiration of him to a whole new dimension. He was the only one in this world who had any sort of name, position, money, and power that stood up for Joe. The only one. And Franco knew it was going to cost him, but he didn’t care. He did what was right. He did what Joe taught him to do. Be loyal. Be selfless. Think of others. Franco, like all the other former players, are a living monument to what Joe has taught.
I’ve been thinking about this. How many former players do you see, who, once they’ve reached adulthood, became husbands, fathers, etc, have been arrested for drugs, domestic violence, DUI’s, or anything else? I can only think of one, and that was Larry Johnson. Think, there were 1,077 lettermen, and how many players who never lettered, and only 1 was in any kind of trouble as an adult? That is incredible.
As for Phil Knight, the best way I can surmise my feelings about his speech yesterday are grateful. Grateful that somebody else with money and position, somebody who stands to lose something, had the guts to say, in front of the entire sporting world, what a gross injustice was done to Joe. Like Joe, like me, like all of us, Phil Knight is not a perfect man, but I admire his courage to say what a lot of people think, but not a lot of people in his position have the guts to say.
by Ab4PSU on Jan 27, 2012 11:32 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
And LJ has owned up to it
LJ has grown up a lot since then, I think, and as I recall, the worst thing he did was throw a drink in a woman’s face. Not ok, but it’s not like he punched her.
I never had a particular problem with Nike. I was/am uncomfortable with the degree to which he personally bankrolls Oregon. But I’m nervous about how much PSU hockey relies on Pegula too. It’s just a lot of power to put in somebody who isn’t a coach or a duly appointed administrator. I don’t like most of the Pro Combat uniforms, but I understand that Nike is just experimenting with different ideas that they will then translate to their products. It’s like the ridiculous haute couture stuff that comes out in Paris fashion shows. Nobody will ever wear that, but some ideas from that may trickle down.
Not all of their new efforts are bad:
Army looked good against Navy (better than the newfangled Navy unis, I thought)
http://www.goarmysports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091311aac.html
And Minnesota’s new kits are olk:
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34482001
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 12:44 PM EST reply actions
Girlfriend is New to Penn State
I find it a blessing that my parents “brainwashed” me as a PSU fan very early in my life. My girlfriend wasn’t as lucky and I have been quickly orienting her. One of the learning experiences happend last night as we were watching Joe’s memorial.
It stated and she immediately was glued to all of the speakers just as I was. I thought they all did a tremendous job. Tears were shed by both of us and even her mom who was there at the time was glued to the TV. Then the interviews started after it was over and MROB and DC17 were interviewed. This is when it happened. She says to me. (referring to DC17) “Wow, he was really well spoken”, I said yeah he is a good guy. Then she realized and noted that everybody that spoke and was interviewed was really well spoken. She said she expected at least one to sound what she termed as a dumb football player. I said this is Penn State, this is what is Joe demanded and we have come to expect.
Although it wasn’t too hard, I think I am making her into another die-hard Penn State Fan.
Thanks Joe, we love ya.
by ptsyu10 on Jan 27, 2012 12:45 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Keep up the good work!
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Your gf sounds hot!
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 27, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The wire reports that mention Knight
also usually include this gibberish from one Lanny J. Davis:
“All the reasons for the board’s difficult and anguished decision – made unanimously, including former football players and everyone who still loves Coach Paterno and his memory – reached a decision which was heartfelt. All 32.”
“The facts speak for themselves” and include the grand jury testimony, he said.
Not sure why or how Lenny was the one to get quoted, but we should all give him a warm welcome to the world of asshattery. “heartfelt”? Nothing the BOT’s did or have done since has been indicative that they have any heart.
by cs93 on Jan 27, 2012 3:19 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
That quote doesn't parse in English.
I’m sure he was on the spot but holy crap, that’s unintelligible.
Sandwich is the best
Bread use aside from making
Russians stand in line
by WorldBFat on Jan 27, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Must be that Yale degree...
or maybe we’re just too dim to get it. After all, most of us just went to some cow school in the middle of PA.
Font failure
If only we had a good library to learn how to trade bon mots with Lanny
by cs93 on Jan 27, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Lanny J. Davis
is an attorney for the BoT. I believe he is technically referred to as a “bootlicker.”
Humanum est pati.
by Smee on Jan 27, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
bootlicker
aka “sycophant” — used that Paterno Library!
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 27, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't think all 32 members voted on this.
Am I wrong? I believed that it was “unanimous” in that the 4 or 5 people that made the decision all agreed but that not every member of the board was consulted.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Jan 27, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
It's been speculated
that the BOT’s would have voted to have a unanimous final vote regardless of what the actual vote was, in order to show allegiance (i.e. cover each others asses).
Ironic, isn't it ? -
- that in all this three month long drama, only one person has publically acknowleged his unintended blindness with the words beginning – “With the benefit of hindsight…”
No one else, especially not the spineless gang of 32, has admitted to any fault, and in so not doing makes them appear to be the very villians Phil Knight suggests that they are.
Likewise the media will not retract their accusations of failed “moral obligations” and in so trying to save face, they will never be able to scrape the egg therefrom, just as Lady McBeth could not wash the blood from her own hands.
Joe Paterno’s humility and honesty gleams in stark contrast to them all.
by TonyLion on Jan 27, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 13 recs
Ironic
But I also look at it as another one of Joe’s last lessons to us. Own up to your shortcomings and address them proactively. No matter the consequences. It takes courage and integrity to do so. It may cause you to be overlooked by peers or denigrated by detractors. But in the long race, you will have earned more respect, and you will be able to hold your head high.
by cs93 on Jan 27, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
You don't think Dr. Spanier was working hard to pin this on anyone other than himself?
Dr Spanier: Let’s fire Coach Paterno to pacify the media lynch mob.
John Surma: Brilliant idea Graham. While we’re at it, you resign too so I can deny any accounablity for this.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Jan 27, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's like the B-grade movies
where the evil-doers send in an assassin to do away with the good guy, then knock off the assassin.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 27, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
I know this isn't popular
and I’ve said it plenty of times, but I support Spanier.
Humanum est pati.
Agree to disagree.
See how this is done, M1EK?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 27, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I also agree to disagree
Although, in full transparency, my dislike for Spanier is at least 75% because of his stance on the Greek system.
My wife was a Tri-Delt
We direct that dislike straight at Roy Baker, Mister “Let’s see how many greek chapters we can disband.”
Humanum est pati.
by Smee on Jan 27, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was a senior when he was appointed
And while I do direct a very large volume of my angst at him, I do feel that Spanier has had an anti-greek mission for years. If nothing else, Baker’s hiring seemed in line with Spanier’s overall goal to me.
And for a generational perspective, my grandfather was a TKE in the 50s. While he overall supported Spanier, from talking to him he did seem to be disappointed with for his stance towards greeks.
G-Span
Was absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, against greeks. Some of the crap he pulled while I was there, unbelievable. And for the record, it’s this type of underhanded behavior that makes me think there is much, much more to come about his role in ‘It’.
I appologize for my ignorance
Could you brielfy explain what G-Span is? I feel like it was probably before my time, because I have never heard the term.
Haha sorry Looking at it now I should have gotten that
I was thinking it was the nickname of some measure he had passed, and I had never heard him referred to by that name.
Re-reading your post now (with the benefit of hindsight) I think we fully agree on his stance towards Greeks.
BTW, just out of curiosity, what fraternity were you (if you were in one)?
Apparently
It’s gotten worse (the approach to greeks). And, actually, I was in a sorority. I’ll message which one, ppfcpp.
Like I said, I was a senior when Baker was appointed.
At that time there was a fairly large outcry because of his previous destruction of Greek Systems at Bucknell and Syracuse.
He tried very hard to convince us that he was ‘misunderstood’ and that he really supported Greek life. But it was clear early on that he was trying to destroy Greek Life as it existed in its current form.
Wonder why they're so crazy?
I get that the party-school rankings aren’t great PR, and I appreciate the safety issue, but we managed to self-police quite well.
This may sound terrible but I remember just being able to go up and walk into a house when I was a freshman. I think there’s still something to be said for that; go greek or not, but those big house parties were fun.
Well, In a very brief form I'll try to describe Baker's response to our question
Basically, he tried to make it seem like he only wanted Greeks to have fun. He tried to make it sound like he wanted Greeks to separate from GDIs.
He wanted:
1. Freshman to be banned from Greek parties.
2.Non-Greek Upper classman to also be banned from Greek parties.
3. All rush activities to be dry.
In theory, those ideas would seem to strengthen the Greek community beyond partying. Unfortunately, the ideas had a lot less to do with the impacts, and a lot more to do with giving him a way to punish Greek Orgs.
BTW, This may not be the best place to post this
But are you as irritated as I am about the treatment of the IFC Panhel name for Thon?
I know what you mean
At first I was upset but as I see the efforts the independents put forth, I’m becoming okay with it.
I was more upset about the fact that they took the last 2 hours away. I’m still upset about that.
I understand completely
I don’t mean my previous post to diminish the efforts of GDIs. It just seems like another way to negate the impact of Greeks by removing their name from Thon.
I remember hearing about this
It seems to me like those that complied got into more trouble than those that just said “Phil Knight” (which is my new phrase—meaning screw you to any member of admin/BoT that deserves it).
Definitely agree about the house parties
and realistically, the party school rankings weren’t entirely a greek thing. It was (and is) a Penn State thing. To ‘blame’ that on the greek system isn’t really fair, in my opinion.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Sorry if you misunderstood
It is a PSU thing. I was greek. My point was that GSpan/Baker were quite happy to pin the party school rankings on us.
Example: cop cars waiting on Hamilton, but if you’re down at, say, the Meridian, where there were plenty of apartment parties, zilch.
Plus, there was the whole SIPP program.
Oh yeah, I got what you were saying
I meant that Baker and Spanier tended to blame the ranking on us, which led to the crackdown.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
I was a junior when he was apppointed
and his appointment was a death knell for the greek system at PSU. I remember he put in place ludicrous restrictions on rush events that made it next to impossible to recruit decent sized pledge classes.
G-Span and the administration cited his great record at other schools regarding greeks, but those were in the context of controlling them, rather than working with them to foster better communication or a better system etc etc.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
For Clarity,
Are you referring to Spanier being appointed, or Baker?
Regardless, would you mind passing on which Fraternity / Sorority you were a member of?
Sure, I meant when Baker was appointed
I was a KA.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
iamkatemcg, you're probably right
Though I was one of those idiots who had a girlfriend for half of college, so I didn’t get to know as many of the sororities as I should have haha.
When did you graduate (sorry if you already mentioned that somewhere else already).
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Nice, I was there around the same time
but finished a little bit after that while taking the scenic route. I’m sure we went to some of the same parties.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Ok that's what I thought
And, to put it simply, I agree.
I appreciate your willingness to put your affiliation out there. Simply put: Fuck Baker.
by ppfcpp on Jan 28, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not that this means anything big
But his daughter was in a sorority. Not sure about his son. I mean, if there were some large, philosophical problem with the Greek community, I don’t think that happens.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
Why am I the only person to rec this so far?
For God’s sake, people – it’s been up for nigh on eight hours and it’s still not green yet!
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 27, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't think he was referring to the BOT as villians.
I’m pretty sure he meant Sandusky.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 9:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he said 'if'.
As in – there might not even be a villain, but if there is, it sure as hell isn’t Joe.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Jan 27, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I got that out of it too
That’s the important point regardless.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 10:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Lanny Davis as always been in the world of which you speak. He’s a long time political operative. He’s a "nice guy" but he’s not honest. It speaks volumes that the administration picked him to be their counsel.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
Never heard of him before
but his Wikipedia page did nothing to convince me you’re wrong. It would be revealing to understand the process by which that quote was obtained.
There is a pretty fundamental difference
Between 32 people making a decision and 2 people making a decision and 30 people not daring challenge that decision in the most ridiculous of circumstances.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Jan 28, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Smaller board . . .
The nickrapak cat at the bottom (presently) of the page is making some sense.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Lanny
is also the guy, who was quoted to say that JVP got “due process” having testified before the Grand Jury. I respect his CV, but for any attorney to say such a thing (whether quoted correctly or not) it inexcusable – regardless of your feelings on this matter – He is, also, of course, Seth Davis’ dad.
One thing I can say for sure
And that is that the GJP sure as hell does not “speak for itself.” What other facts is he referring to? They didn’t have any others.
But having said that. I don’t think all this board bashing is very constructive. They have new leadership now and all of the alumni members, at least will turn over soon. There’s hope they’ve learned some lessons.
The whole structure is f’d up. Too many people, for one. I don’t know how that will change. It must.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 9:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Don't worry.
Up until now, I imagine that job has been a pretty sweet plum : No real hard work to do and lots of prestige and power and the money that goes along with that. Now that there is a difficult road ahead, I would think most of the folks on the current board are going to step down of their own accord. They’ll make it look like some noble act, but at the end of the day it will be because they don’t want to get their hands dirty.
I seem to remember two of them already announcing that.
Sorry if this sounds like a conspiracy theory. I don’t really intend for it to be. It’s just how I think it is going to go down.
If they ever tell my story let them say that I walked with giants. Men rise and fall like the winter wheat, but these names will never die. Let them say I lived in the time of Bradley, tamer of offenses. Let them say I lived in the time of Paterno.
I am fine bashing them
until they are all gone. The “new leadership” comes from the same old crew. You can change the names but the traitors remain the same.
The structure IS absolutely screwed up. The gov and the state essentially buy Class A voting shares of PSU stock at pennies on the dollar. They provide a single-digit percentage of the University’s funding, yet “own” over 70% of the Board. The state should get one seat on the Board — the rest should be elected by the alumni.
Humanum est pati.
by Smee on Jan 27, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
I fully agree.
In all honesty, I had no idea how the BOT was structured until this all happened. In my ignorance, I assumed the board was 100% voted for. The fact that it isn’t is appalling alone. The fact that the Governor has more power than anyone is entirely sickening.
I know that it isn’t easy to change the power structure, but considering how much the funding has changed, I think that there needs to be a clear shift in the power / control of the university to correspond.
Considering how pissed off many residents of the state were...
when PSU was complaining about more budget cuts this year, how little of our budget is actually given by the state, and how tired I am of the state residents complaining about PSU spending “their money” on football (not true), “unnecessary” buildings, and professor salaries (considering the amount of training they have, how elite those professors must be to make PSU an elite institution which requires recruiting professors to the middle of nowhere PA, and how much they contribute back to the school in grant money… this is my biggest pet peeve) , I am sort of curious how our “state-related” designation is actually an asset. And that is, more-or-less, a serious question. So if I am missing something and anyone cares to explain it, I’m all ears.
by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 28, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I have no idea how
But if Dan Onorato was the governor, this would have sucked a lot less.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Jan 28, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
FWIW, I hope he runs again in 2014. I agree with you that things wouldn’t have been the same (in a better, or at least a less bad, way) if he and his appointees had been on the BoT.
BUT, let’s take advantage of 2012 and 2013 first – we alumni may only be able to turn over 9 seats every three years; however, until the BoT structure is changed, let’s get those 9. Making further progress beyond that will only be easier if we can get those seats. Then, if we can get Corbett out in 2014, the cumulative effect of that and the elections from the preceding years will make quite a difference.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jan 28, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget
The governor’s appointees are on a rotating basis, so we are still living with some Fast Eddie appointees.
That being said, Corbett’s a dick.
by nickrapak on Jan 28, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not sure
I’m not sure if Onorato would have made a big difference here, but he is way less of a dick, that’s for sure.
The point of being a State related institution is, in principle, that the institution serves all people of the commonwealth by offering an affordable education and providing research that helps the economy, society, and environment. But this government is trying to get the state out of education and R&D altogether. And, unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots who vote who think that’s just fine.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 29, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Smee - don't understand your 70%. (6 appointed, plus the 6 ex-officio including gov &PSU pres.)
That’s a lot closer to 30% than 70%. If you look at the bios, you will see that 4 of the 6 governor-appointed are also alumni & one is undergrad. These were appointed by Rendell and earlier govs. Among the ex-officio there’s at least one alum. Altogether on a brief look, there are at least 22 alumni regardless of how chosen.
Be glad to explain my math
I stated, “They provide a single-digit percentage of the University’s funding, yet "own" over 70% of the Board.” The “They” refers to the “gov and the state” from the previous sentence.
The gov appoints six members. The state ag societies appoint six. Four of the five ex-officio members are directly state-related: the gov; and the state secretaries of the departments of Agriculture, Education, and Conservation and Natural Resources. The gov and the state now have 16 seats (50%). The alums only have nine. The entire board elects the six “business and industry” trustees. With a 16 to 9 advantage the gov & state “own” those appointments. That’s 22 seats (68%). The last ex-officio is the University prez who is hired by the board. Again, with a numerical advantage that hire is also “owned” so they have 23 of 32 seats for 71.9%
Humanum est pati.
Except the ag societies are not state (government) but private groups.
The groups are stakeholders in the efficiency and value of the research and dispersal of information to the Commonwealth. This not only benefits producers but the consumers in PA. I mentioned to reedjohnmiller that ag-related jobs are about 1 in 7 in PA at the present time.
Not to argue your point if that’s what you conclude. I just don’t see a nefarious purpose in the selection. I suspect some of the groups want to hold the government just as accountable as you do.
Wasn't aware the Ag societies were private
When the University describes them HERE
as “organized agricultural societies within the Commonwealth” I just included them as part of the “state.” However, because the $ I was using to determine the “state’s” percentage include the Ag funds, the totals are the same. The bottom line for me is the people who are governing the U are not the ones providing the money to run it — and those who are providing the bulk of the money have a minority share.
My point is not to suggest nefarious purposes, just to move the model for the BoT into one where the financial stakeholders also have an equivalent governing stake.
Humanum est pati.
I agree
It’s been a pretty cush gig up until recently. Now they’re actually going to be scrutinized. That’s going to attract a different kind of person.
I don’t know how governors go about deciding who to put on the board. It would be nice if that process were more transparent. Better yet, it would be nice if the governor didn’t get to pick so many. The state provides around 5% of the budget. The gov should only pick 5% of the seats.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 10:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
Cross post
I wouldn’t give that many to the alums. I’d give a lot to the faculty. They’re what makes the university a university, after all, and are in the best position to see what the university needs to fulfill its mission. And I’d give a few to the students – undergrad (UP and commonwealth) and grad.
And I think it’s ok for industry and ag to have some seats, but not so many. An important part of the University’s mission is to provide research and education that helps PA’s economy.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 10:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Your post makes sense, and I wish I had read it before I posted above,
But, I disagree about the industry. I know that the industry helps to make us a world class university, but I’m hesitant to grant them a governing say. In my opinion, I think that there needs to be a disconnect so that true academic ethics can prevail (as opposed to say, a certain industry favoring the direction of certain research).
Personally, off the top of my head I think the following would be a good organization:
50% appointed / voted by the faculty senate
25-40% voted by alumni
10-25% student representation
I trust the faculty (and by this I mean professors: I’m not sure what is technically considered faculty at Penn State) more than anyone to do what is best for an academic institution. That being said,I still believe alumni and students should have a fairly strong say, considering how much they have invested.
As a practical matter
I can’t agree with more than one employee of the University (the prez) also sitting on its Board. So faculty are out for me. Students — I can absolutely get on board with a few of those.
Humanum est pati.
Just out of curiosity,why?
It would seem to me that faculty would (or should) have the best idea of where the university should be headed. What is your reasoning why you wouldn’g want them on the board? I’m curious if I’m over looking something.
A key component of Board governance is
independent judgement — and the removal of any appearance of impropriety. Having faculty members on the board making decisions about the budget, about departmental changes, about building construction, etc. puts them in a position where they can personally gain from decisions they make. Sure they can abstain from those discussions and votes, but, as a practical matter those items make up the bulk of the board’s “work” and it is useless to have them there if they will just be abstaining on every discussion or vote for one “conflict of interest” or another.
If you want to give them non-voting “ex-officio” seats so they can be in the room and provide input, that’s fine.
Humanum est pati.
I'll admit, I hadn't thought of that
Would you compromise if the faculty had something like 40% composure, so that alumni and students combined could override them if need be?
I admit I chuckled a bit at the concept
of faculty members sitting on the board after their recent “support” of the current BoT.
But seriously, thanks for asking and my short answer is no. Only one paid employee on the board – the prez (and I would feel better if he/she were a non-voting ex-officio) No faculty, staff, admin. It gets down to the point I made above and the basic premise for the board — governance, not management. And that topic is enough for a thread on its own. Thanks.
Humanum est pati.
Faculty don't necessarily support board
They just didn’t see the point of further antagonizing things with a symbolic vote.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 29, 2012 9:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can't agree
The faculty know the most about education and research. And they have the most at stake. Alumni and students want to protect the value of their degree, but the faculty’s whole life’s work is at stake. Faculty are there everyday. Many of the alums are only on campus occasionally.
Faculty are employees of the university, but very different from most kinds of employment relationships, which is how it generally ought to be. They already have more say in how their departments run and a lot of individual freedom/responsibility than most people do in their jobs. They have to hustle their own grant money for research and then the university takes a cut. The people doing the work deserve more say in how that cut is spent.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 11:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is the faculties life work...
but that actually provides on major concern for me.
A lack of perspective of a University’s place in the world. I’m quite certain that if all of my professors had their druthers, every one of my classmates from graduate school would be professors at R1 Universities publishing their heads off. But ask any of those professors what opportunities there are for a Ph.D. outside of the R1 track and you draw a LOT of blank stares.
There are many stakeholders in PSU’s product and many different philosophies about the best way to deliver that product. The board needs to reflect as many of those interests as possible and, as an academic myself, I don’t feel like a board composed of (nearly) all academics can do so. Not because they aren’t smart. And not because they wouldn’t be dedicated. But because most high-powered academics exist in a highly specialized bubble.
by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 28, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not all
My dad was on the faculty. Just about every dad and many moms (different era) of my schoolmates were on the faculty. A lot of them are a bit detached from everything outside their field, but most aren’t. They know a lot about the politics of research and education. Plus, PSU’s ed school has many experts in higher ed issues. And it’s not uncommon for older faculty to take an interest in the wider issues. As people get older, they look for new ways to contribute.
And I don’t think the Rainman types would run or get elected anyway.
Besides, you shouldn’t decide who deserves representation based on an anecdotal impression of the sort of people you think might get elected. By that measure, most people would think the students shouldn’t be represented. Some might say the students should be locked in cages.
Like I said, it could be worse. At my college, the Board of Visitors is all governor-appointed. Most of the time, its ok, but occasionally they make some asinine decisions.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fair enough...
but my “anecdotal impression” is at least as good as yours :)
Said a bit more fairly, I think any great University should have some representation from the industries that end up hiring their students. I do worry that faculty tend to retreat to their “cocoons” or fail to realize the needs/wants of people who are actually hiring from the industries that their research helps to advance on the tech side. A prime example is my advisor(s) surprise at the fact that I could get hired in the gaming and internet industries doing user research with a psych degree. Yes, that is anecdotal, but 3 out of 4 of the interviews I had were in the user experience industry and I only lucked into figuring that out… these same people would be making even more important decisions about the future of the University by serving on the BOT.
Whatever the case, at the end of the day, the only thing I worry about is the number of people on the board who are assigned or otherwise not voted on (and cannot, therefore, be easily removed). Shrink the size of the board and make every position something that can be voted on by someone.
I never cared that much before (because the leadership of PSU always seemed competent), but I’m quite frustrated by the fact that I feel like I can’t do anything about the leadership of PSU because of the number of BOT seats I (and the rest of the PSU alums) have absolutely no say in.
by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 29, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
Not about anecdotes
But it’s not about what we think of the people, it’s about whether they have an important stake and therefore deserve a voice.
There are many states who consistently vote awful people into congress, but I can’t contest their right to representation.
By the way, I had a similar experience with the faculty where I got a masters, Boston U. Many of them couldn’t imagine any of their students not turning out like them. I didn’t have that experience at W&M. It’s the difference between a research focus and a teaching focus.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 29, 2012 9:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sounds ok
They could also have non-voting industry/AG advisors, either for the whole board or set up advisory committees for specific projects. Like, for example, the food science dept could have industry give them advice on which material would best prepare students for that field. Not decide. Just advise.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 27, 2012 10:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't be opposed to that at all.
I think that it is important to value the input of highly renowned people in industry- I’m just wary in them having a say in the overall direction of the university.
reedjohn - just for info - ag-related jobs are about 1 of 7 in PA at this time.
Full disclosure – I am an Ag College grad and sat in (once) on the selection of ag reps.
Also, and don’t ask how it works ‘cause I don’t know, but some funding for ag is handled differently. I mentioned elsewhere that Dean Bruce McPheron is best source of all that information. The College has been significantly impacted in recent budget situation (as have some other colleges.)
Thanks for that info
1/7 is well above the national avg, I think.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 28, 2012 6:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ag was always significant but loss of manufacturing made the % higher.
Plus that, we all like to eat every day.
My proposal for the BoT makeup:
It’s a significant shakeup from what’s there now, but I think that it will provide better representation, as well as limit the influence of certain groups:
6 alumni Trustees, 3 elected each year for 4 year terms
3 reps from the Faculty Senate
2 Ag trustees (Land Grant reasons)
1 admin rep from U. Park
1 admin rep from a branch campus (elected by vote of branch campus chancellors)
1 student rep from U. Park (Elected by students)
1 student rep from a branch campus (Elected by students)
1 governor appointee
University President (Non-voting)
Other non-voting members as needed
This way, all factions of the University are represented, but most of the Trustees will be elected rather than appointed, and thus would have to be more responsive. In addition, there will be no trustees elected by the trustees, which strikes me as something that should have been done years ago.
I'd pull one faculty rep from the branches
and go with this without further alteration.
The sheer size of this thing as currently constituted is a problem.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
This also
better reflects the state appropriation. We get, what, 6%? Something in that neighborhood? Why have 6 or 9 governor appointed members? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any governance structured in such a way.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
As a faculty member of a state institution,
I do not think the board should have more than one faculty member (the President) on it. A board’s function is strategic and to provide limited oversight and guidance. It should not be involved with the day-to-day workings of the university. The faculty senate exists to create and recommend policies and is better equipped to deal with the things that many of you seem to be concerned about. Most corporate boards of directors do not have employees on the board except for the CEO usually. University boards should be the same. I do think the alumni need to be able to elect more positions on the board.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
by Paige2PSU on Jan 30, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I worked for an employee owned company...
And it was slightly less horseshitty than the publicly owned companies I’ve worked for. Not as much as one might hope, but somewhat.
I don’t accept the comparison to a company. and neither should you. A university is not a company. It’s goal is to educate people, including people who can’t afford to pay the full price, and and make the world better with knowledge. Companies exist to sell stuff and make money.
In this country, we’re used to being told that the corporation is the model for all human interaction but you don’t have to be a communist to reject that. Different kinds of organizations do different things and therefore should have different structures.
Company boards are just trying to maximize the long term value of the company on behalf of the shareholders they represent. Usually that just means raising the stock price, which is an easy metric to track. It’s pretty straightforward. I’ve heard alumni likened to shareholders of the university but it’s a weak analogy at best. There’s no single metric of a university’s success like share price. University’s serve many different needs for several different types of stakeholders whose goals are not always aligned and therefore must be carefully balanced.
Now, you’re suggesting something a bit different, which I do like, which is that the faculty aren’t on the board but that the faculty have a lot of freedom from the board to run their departments. That makes sense too.
What doesn’t make sense, in my view, is to have so many members of the board who aren’t really representing any constituency other than a) the governor b) the rest of the board c) themselves.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 31, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes.
The “business model” of higher education is precisely what is killing higher education. One of the offshoots is an increasingly ill or un educated population. You can find a wealth of examples prominently making asinine, incoherent, and unsupportable assertions on any comment board following an article on Joe Paterno. These folks may be job trained, but they are certainly not educated.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
I agree to some extent that you can't compare universities to for-profit corporations,
but I was thinking more of a public or not-for-profit entity such as a hospital or health care system. Usually the board is comprised of professionals who can help the organization (lawyers, accountants, CEOs of non-competing organizations) and people who represent the patient interest (clergy, prominent members of the community). They’re goal is responsible stewardship of the corporation (and to make money for not-for-profits), and they are not driven by stock prices. I think the university BOT should be comprised of some prominent businessmen who can guide the strategic direction of the university as well as alumni who represent the interested of current and former students. But faculty should not have a major role in the strategic governance of the organization except for their role in influencing policies through the existing bodies.
The university that I work for has BOT problems, too. The BOT is dominated by Alabama grads who hold all of the power and they often sacrifice the well-being of UAB and UAH if they deem that something will hurt UA. That’s a conflict of interest that shouldn’t exist either.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
Slight correction to Phil's quote (I think)
“…this much is clear to me: if there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it.”
by Amos54 on Jan 28, 2012 11:48 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Sums it up
Thanks Amos, I pulled the quote from the Wash Post. The message is clear; Phil Knight stood up and told the truth. If we support Joe we need to acknowledge what Phil Knight did. He had the courage to stand up and speak his mind, and the truth. He risked Nike’s relationship with PSU to defend Joe. This is the first high profile person outside of PSU that stood-up and defended Joe. Corbett and the BOT don’t care what the alum and PSU community thinks.
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it’s difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine"
- Abraham Lincoln
Not much of a risk
PSU’s board wouldn’t do anything to damage such a mutually beneficial relationship AND piss off just about every living alum in the process just because Knight was unkind to them. It’s highly unlikely that they are that petty and stupid.
You never know
Really? I think the BOT is totally incompetent. They seem to have the mentality of girl in Jr high school. One replied that they felt Joe showed them up by chanting We Are Penn State with students on his front lawn the night before he was fired. Another story was reported that they were insulted when Joe said he would give them 2 or 3 names of who he would recommend to be the next football coach. These are grown men with oversized egos.
While I think it is highly unlikely and it would be incredibly stupid for PSU to damage their relationship with Nike, I still find it admirable in this day of political correctness for Phil Knight to take a stand. It’s time for people to stand-up and speak their mind without fear of consequences.
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it’s difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine"
- Abraham Lincoln
by PsuSam on Jan 30, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Too late
The BOT has pretty much pissed off every living alumn. Instead of letting Joe go with dignity they fired him over the phone. Whether you think Joe was complacent or not, after 62 years he deserved the respect of a face to face meeting. You can believe what you want but Penn State is where it is today, a world class university, more through Joe’s efforts than all 32 BOTs combined. I think it is in the best interest of every PSU supporter to do what they can to see that Corbett gets defeated and never holds a political office again.
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it’s difficult to determine whether or not they are genuine"
- Abraham Lincoln
by PsuSam on Jan 30, 2012 2:02 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Anything is possible but
The board may be incompetent as a whole, but they are not insane. As you said, they take the mentality of a junior high girl. (although that would be insulting to some junior high girls I know) As such, they want to do what was popular and politically expedient. Political winds were blowing one way in early November, but since the preliminary hearing and Joe’s passing, the winds seem to have shifted.
I too am concerned about the stories about the board feeling that Joe wasn’t showing than proper deference. Even if he was showing them up – which he wasn’t – that’s just not how a university should run. A university is not a military operation that needs absolute chain-of-command discipline. It’s about free minds. Criticizing the board of trustees (or whomever is running the show) has been part of academic culture to some degree since the middle ages, at least. Then again, a lot of that sort of talk appeared to be coming form Surma, and he’s out so, we’ll see what the tone is like now.
Joe is one of a handful of people that made enormous contributions to PSU in the post-war era. Eric Walker deserves a lot of credit as does Spanier, despite some of his mistakes. There are some others, mostly unsung faculty that gradually built up their departments.
But yeah, I don’t think any of the people on the current board are remotely in Joe’s league as far as that goes.
Am I missing something
or does anybody else wonder why not one BOT member has broken ranks and spoken anything but the party line? You couldn’t get that many people to agree on where to go to dinner. I understand that Standing Order 9 requires them to present a united front, but what’s the penalty for violating that? I assume it’s not jail time or death. I would think that a member who disagreed with the “unanimous” decision or was unhappy with the way the BOT functioned wouldn’t mind being thrown out.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby
Don't be silly
their lawyer already said “the facts speak for themselves.” Such a response was likely accompanied by an air-wank ‘cause it’s pretty dismissive to me.
There’s a reason I have switched to calling them all BOT’s.
by cs93 on Jan 30, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not necessarily
The board is big and there are some members more powerful than others. If you want to be one of the cool kids, then you have to go along with them. otherwise, they’ll never listen to your ideas or invite you to their pool parties.
by reedjohnmiller on Jan 31, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
People never grow up.
We are all stuck in a world of middle schoolers.
If I was on the Board and disagreed with the way things have been handled
Which is to say “if I were on the Board”…I’d come out and say a bunch of shit and resign from the Board and then speak publicly to anyone I could with my opinion. I’m not that concerned with my financial interests, so I wouldn’t be concerned with the subsequent blackballing I’d receive. In fact, I’d probably have a lot of supporters the second I spoke out. Probably enough to get democratically voted back onto the board during the next nomination period.
"We gon' get down. We gon' do the do. I'm going to hit these mother****ers" - Dock Ellis, May 1, 1974.
by OctaShields on Feb 1, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

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