Turning the Page
This past weekend, I purposefully stepped away from all things PSU (except watching the press conference), in order to reflect. I have come to the conclusion that what's done is done. On the surface, it seems that Bill O'Brien is a good man, motivational type guy who "gets it." In keeping two very good defensive coaches (and his best recruiter) on staff, it shows that O'Brien is smart enough to know that he doesn't know everything. We'll see what kind of coaching staff he puts together and what kind of student/athletes he brings in, but so far I like everything I've seen.
As for the rest of it (Paterno, JS, etc.), I will never not feel as though Joe got screwed. I will never get over the horrible actions that were committed against those children. I will never forgive the people at Second Mile who seem to have (temporarily) escaped punishment for running, in effect, a brothel. I will never forgive the BoT, MSM and those who would rush to judgment without the facts, denigrating a good man in the process. And I will never forgive those who attempt to paint those who feel as though Joe got screwed as being complicit in the rape of a child, including some who blog on this site.
That said, life is too short. Joe is no longer the coach. In all likelihood, had this thing not happened, it is likely that Joe would still have been done at this point. The only difference is that, perhaps, Urban Meyer would have been in Happy Valley, as opposed to the toilet bowl that is Columbus, OH. Nevertheless, we were probably going to have to adjust to life with "the new guy." regardless of how this happened.
As such, I will continue to speak out for Joe. I will continue to battle those who insist that Joe was enabling JS simply to protect his program. However, I will not let that influence my support for Coach O'Brien. By all accounts, he seems like a good man, a smart football coach and the type of guy Joe might have had on his staff. I am excited about the future of Penn State Football under this man's leadership. I hope that, 46 years from now, we're blogging about who should replace BOB. With that said, I look forward to a successful recruiting period and off-season.
Good Luck Coach O'Brien, we got your back.
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Very well said
This is basically spot on with what I am feeling right now. I am still furious for those that could have stopped JS long ago. I am mortified by the actions of Sandusky and still pray for all victims of abuse, not just from this case but everywhere. I am still heartbroken at the way Joe was treated by the media who just wanted to one-up one another by using misinformation to try to make Joe a monster, and by the actions of the BoT who acted cowardly and just threw him to the wolves after decades of helping make Penn State a world-class institution.
However, we all have the chance to move on and try to find peace. Most of us will always remember all or part of Paterno’s legacy and embrace all the tremendous memories that came over the years. The last few days of JoePa’s regime DO NOT define his countless accomplishments both on and off the field.
O’Brien seems like a good guy, with a strong academic background that I believe he will make a priority for our current and future student-athletes. We know what LJSr. and Vandy are about, and what they are capable of. Although O’Brien came as a bit of a surprise to most of us, he seems capable of great things and I will be supporting him 100% of the way.
Finally, people in the media and public will always bash the entire Penn State community. Let them scream in the background. People will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts. Now is not the time to stoop to their level. Now is the time for hope. Now is the time to look forward to new beginnings. We are. They aren’t.
by Jared Slanina on Jan 9, 2012 10:56 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
NOT cancelling PSU football tix
Thanks for posting this. Not only do I appreciate the sentiments, but I welcome the opportunity to post the thoughts below. Last Friday, I posted this piece on my intention to cancel my season football tickets out of a sense of helplessness, feeling that it was my only avenue to meaningfully register my displeasure with the gross mismanagement of PSU over the last two months. I have been pretty passionate about this, and that hasn’t changed. But I have also had some time to reflect and maybe gain some clearer perspective on the whole business.
I wanted to post a follow-up, just as a means of contributing to the thoughtful conversation that has gone on here, but didn’t want to be so self-important as to write a sequel to my own fanpost. ;) I feel like it works just as well as a comment here…
As to the tickets, I have had a genuine change of heart about them. I think we are going to keep our seats. Three things:
1) I am starting to accept that the Paterno era of Penn State football is over, and it was a unique blessing for all of us who got to experience it first hand, but its conclusion also shouldn’t mean the end of the Penn State football story (or The Penn State Football Story®). As my profound sadness over the end of JoePa’s time as head coach wanes, my excitement for watching the program enter a new phase grows.
2) O’Brien has actually impressed me so far: with his deference to Joe and the lettermen, with his decision to retain Larry Johnson and Ron Vanderlinden, and with the way he carried himself generally and handled that presser on Saturday. I never blamed him for any of this and do respect his willingness to tackle a nearly impossible quandary with far more forthrightness than basically any “leader” employed by PSU prior to his hiring. I am ready to give the guy a chance.
3) Seeing the incredibly strong and positive reaction from the alumni base to Ben Novak’s Reflections article along with such high interest in the upcoming BoT election gives me hope that there will be sustained commitment from the Penn State community to reforming the University’s governing structure. Knowing that there will be other outlets to resist the corruption and perversion of Old State, ones that cut right to the heart of the problem and don’t shortchange the program or PSU student athletes in any way, lets me feel like I can continue buying the tickets with a clear conscience – as long as I remain active on other fronts.
That’s a portrait of an evolving position, I guess. But it is an honest one. Some people may call it hypocritical, I suppose, and I realize I have opened myself up to that criticism. All I can say in response is that the third point is the one that is, by far, most important to me. From the moment O’Brien thumbed his nose at the arrogant “turn the page” philosophy we’ve seen brimming from Old Main for two months and publicly praised Joe Paterno, I started to think about this situation differently. Seeing how, in these last few days, much more, rather than less (as was my fear), attention has been turned on reforming Penn State and turning out the current Trustees, I am confident that, at least for now, principled Penn Staters can “have their cake and eat it too.”
I have viewed this situation from two somewhat different perspectives now. Time will tell which was right.
The depth of both my sadness and anger is unfathomable.
We (Still) Are...
by PSU_Buch on Jan 9, 2012 11:09 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Well Stated
and I, for one, don’t think its hypocritical. Just about everyone here, I would venture to guess, is here not just because of a football team or because they went to school at PSU. For example, I didn’t go to school there, but I’ve been a PSU fan for more than 30 years. We’re here because affiliating ourselves with this school, football team and Coach Paterno was about more than football. It was identifying with a certain code of conduct. It was understanding that success, while important, was not to be attained at any cost. It was an understanding that honor and integrity, above all else, was most important.
The reason, I think, this hits so hard is because those are (or used to be) traits and characteristics that our society aspired to. Unfortunately, those values are not really valued anymore. Things like Faith, Honor, Integrity are used as punchlines by those who would purport to lead our society. Those terms, and ideas, are bandied about by the “leaders” in order to placate (what those leaders) perceive as the great unwashed of society who “cling bitterly to their bibles and guns.” So, when people who live and work by those values, legitimately, come along, the pop culture elites must destroy those, otherwise the moral decay of the so-called “societal leadership” is exposed. Thus, folks like Joe Paterno, Tim Tebow and others must be destroyed in order to protect the hierarchy of society’s leadership structure.
By attacking Paterno, the MSM, et. al. attacks us as individuals and as a group who believe that there is right and wrong, just and unjust, honor and dishonor. I think that is why it bothers us so much, because they are attacking that which we know is right for the sole purpose of denigrating those who expose their lies. It is made more painful because they hit us where we live: this family, this school, this coach. So, your pain and outrage is justified and understandable.
by Keith Platt on Jan 9, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Re-thinking your position is not hypocritical
and I hope no one hits you with that. We all need to re-evaluate stances as we get new/more information—that applies to all situations, not just this one.
Unfortunately, I doubt the media will follow suit, if warranted, as we get further down the road of the various investigations. But you are to be commended for not following the same path.
Thanks for writing nearly exactly where I am at too.
A week ago I told my wife I was going to plan an extra vacation from all the money I was going to save from not going to games this fall.
Now I’ve got to decide to either cancel those plans or try and foot the bill for both. Since I want to stay married, I am going to have to choose option 2. It should teach me a lesson for spouting off my mouth without thinking about it.
I’ve decided to not turn my back on the players or the program at the time where it probably needs help more than it ever has in the past. Glad to hear that others are doing the same.
.....that which we are, WE ARE;
One equal temper of heroic hearts
I will never forgive the BoT, MSM and those who would rush to judgment without the facts, denigrating a good man in the process.
Really?
I will never forgive the people at Second Mile who seem to have (temporarily) escaped punishment for running, in effect, a brothel
‘Cause this sentance seems pretty judgmental. And it’s based on what one lunatic said on the radio two months ago and that there was no evidence to support. It was wild, irresponsible, speculaton. And it remains so.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Hence the word "seem"
If it is borne out that this is not the case, then so be it. I’m man enough to admit being wrong. That said, no one has denied that they were aware of the accusations, yet he was still allowed access to the kids. Even if it was only one guy (JS) that was allowed to use the kids for evil things, then I would stand by the statement.
By your own logic then
you should not be supporting Joe, since he was aware of the accusations as well.
Oh I totally forgot
how Joe was around JS on a daily basis allowing him to continue to be alone with kids. Great comparison.
Look, I’m not really for torching the Second Mile people either without more facts, but with what we know now, they clearly had more culpability than Joe. They knew of the 98 incident as well and they had the ability to directly stop JS from being around Second Mile children.
It's amazing

given the very ambiguous nature of Paterno’s replies
“I’m not sure exactly what it was”
“Well I don’t know what you would call it”
“Whatever you might call it”.
It certainly does not convey any certainty as to what he was hearing?
something that has been pointed out time and again without getting through to the less perceptive
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Joe did not know what the accusation was exactly
he was not Sandusky’s employer or boss
and unlike Raykovitz it was not Joe’s job to protect the Second Mile kids who were under Second Mile supervision.
All Joe really knew was that MM was upset and uncomfortable because of what he suspected. Still Joe did more than Raykovitz – he told the appropriate people in the administration.
Raykovitz didn’t even alert his board members
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
You're right Btd - I should be ashamed
but - no
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Stop being a creepy pervert
and start paying attention.
This is very simple: Paterno himself said in SWORN TESTIMONY that he was relayed “fondling, or something of a sexual nature”.
This is sufficient already to justify going to the police, and sufficient to require followup when nothing apparently happened (if you honestly try to live anywhere near the high standards you have espoused for 60-some years).
This is why Paterno wishes he had done more.
Maybe it's steroids?
I hear they shrink both the cojones and the brain
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
The shrinkage *not for the squeamish
of ball and brain is what leads to leaving out the “benefit of HINDSIGHT” in a statement about an account rendered 9 years after a 10 minute meeting in the wake of being informed about the list of horrors.
I suppose that means eEK also believes Joe when he said he waited to call Curley so as not to disturb his weekend when in fact he met with him on Sunday?
Homer’s overwhelming desire to make Paterno the bad man who deserved to be raked over the coals by the jackals and jackasses of the media due to a LIE told by the Attorney General is curious – did a football player take away a girl he was stalking? Or was sand kicked in his face or some other well deserved humiliation at the hands of a Nittany Lion?
For this to be over so we never have to deal with the ‘creepy pervert’ name caller again I offer this with my apologies to the rest of the BSD group. Trying to avoid a war of words has only encouraged further distraction and stupidity.. So I must take full advantage of the license granted when he used “creepy pervert” and let it rip like some rank methane explosion from eEK’s sow house sized anal pore.
To wit:
eEK claimed unlimited tolerance for justified abuse and I’m quite willing to dish out a meager sample in support of Joe Paterno who HAS lived an exemplary life “honestly near the high standards he espoused for 60-some years” unlike this tawdry simpering misanthrope who exhibits no standards whatsoever.
One thing bigger than eEK’s brain is in the shriveled yellow sack – his golf sized single ball that survived a well deserved ass-kicking.
There is nothing creepier than a Penn Stater throwing in with the haters in obvious abundance who denounce Joe. The uninformed detractors outside the information flow on BSD with the excuse of ignorance are as common as cockroaches. eEK has had the opportunity to read the truth and still chooses to side with the ignorant nimrods. And like a perverse reprehensible traitor to his Alma Mater he is deserving of ultimate dishonor.and SHUNNING – stripped of any degrees. (if this idiot has one it had to be a mistake)
Next time I will tell you what I really think.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
“[H]e was doing something with the youngster. It was of a sexual nature.”
doing something of a sexual nature+"youngster"=crime.
You can try to hide it with claims that McQ didn’t relay the exact specifics, but a reasonable person hearing “old guy fondling/touching young boy in a sexual nature” will not say “Gee, that sounds normal” or “That doesn’t really sound like a big deal.”
Hell, a reasonable person who hears “old guy and minor showering together at night in an empty building” should have alarm bells go off. Ask any boy scout leader, teacher, or other person who’s had training, and they’ll tell you that’s a serious no-no.
So yeah, trying to minimize this thing does make you seem like a creepy pervert.
We have the transcript and we can read
IN CONTEXT
"Well I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously he was doing SOMETHING with the youngster. It was sexual nature? I’m not sure exactly what it was" = NO evident crime involved with the obvious ? after sexual nature.
The question mark is not implied. It is expressed with "I don’t know what you would call it" an "I’m not sure exactly what it was"
and remember this was an 84 year old’s recollection of a 10 minute meeting 9 years in the past
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
The question mark is not implied. It is expressed with “I don’t know what you would call it” an “I’m not sure exactly what it was”
Bullshit. That is your biased reading of it. It was not phrased as a question. It was phrased as a statement. “He was doing something with the youngster. It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.”
McQ says that he didn’t tell Paterno graphic details. That’s where the “I’m not sure exactly what it was” comes from.
How’s this for context:
A visibly upset assistant coach comes to your house early one Saturday morning. The coach reports that he saw a man showering alone with a young boy late at night in a deserted building. The coach further states that the man and boy were engaged in some sort of sexual activity. He doesn’t use the words “sodomy” or “anal sex”, but it’s clear from his description that something inappropriate happened. Moreover, there are rumors that the man has been caught behaving inappropriately with young boys in the past.
Do you:
a) wait until Sunday evening to do anything about it to avoid ruining someone’s weekend, then call a university administrator who oversees athletics;
b) tell your assistant coach to call the police and report it immediately; or
c) make your assistant call the police and report it before he leaves your house?
OK
Do you:
a) wait until Sunday evening to do anything about it to avoid ruining someone’s weekend, then call a university administrator who oversees athletics;
b) tell your assistant coach to call the police and report it immediately; or
c) make your assistant call the police and report it before he leaves your house?
On Sunday morning I call Tim Curley the AD and my boss and VP Schultz – in charge of the PSU police and I tell them that Mike McQueary came to me upset because he saw Sandusky in the shower at 9:30 pm. That he walked into the locker room for 45 seconds and as he entered he heard 3 slapping sounds and thought a player or coach and a woman might be in the showers having sex.
But when he glance into showers for 2 seconds he saw JS back and a boy. Because he was predisposed to see a sex act he suspected that JS might be doing something inappropriate “Maybe something of a sexual nature??? But he was not certain and did not know what it was”
That is exactly what Joe did and exactly what he should have done. He put MM together with the AD and VP – the two appropriate university administrators who were best situated to deal with the information. And they dealt with it.
You can rant all you wish but it does not change the flimsy nature of MM’s experience.
His lack of action to ascertain exactly what was happening.
His ambiguous suspicions
His presumption of sex based on 3 slapping sounds
His 2 second glances of a back
His inability to convince his father or Dr Dranov that a crime was in progress.
His failure to call the police himself or to convince his father or Dr Dranov to do it
THE BASIC FACT HE COULD NOT REPORT A CRIME BECAUSE HE DID NOT DO THE MINIMUM NECESSARY TO ESTABLISH IF A CRIME WAS HAPPENING
He did not ask the boy if he was ok
He did not observe pain or distress
He did not ask Sandusky what he was doing
He did not wait to see them leave
He did not go back after his phone call to see if they were siill there
He left the boy with Sandusky naked in a shower
Nothing he did is consistent with witnessing a crime of anal intercourse or sexual molestation and his story is not credible to me as it was not credible to 5 responsible adults who heard it.
Yet you somehow are more credible than any of these 5 responsible adults and Mike McQueary because you know Joe Paterno should have called police other than the administrator in charge of the police.
You think a lot of your ability to know what happened 9 years ago and how credible you would have found these 3 slaps and 2 second glances.
You would have callled the campus police instead of the man who was the administrator in charge because you know better from some source of information unknown to any of us what would have been appropriate. You are better that Joe or Dr Dranov, or Dr McQueary, or Mike because _________________________?
1) You are simply better?
2) You know something they did not know?
3) Any freakin answer you would like to give?
This isn’t about your interpretation of Joe’s recollections of a 10 minute meeting 9 years in advance of his GJ Testimony. It’s about your presumption that you know better than the people who were there that night and heard what MM had to say in the hour after the event and the following morning. Two Doctors and a head football coach of impeccable reputation heard his story and they did what they thought was appropriate at the time.
IT WAS APPROPRIATE and they have not been charged with any wrongdoing.
Come on now and tell us why you are so much better than they were. I for one can’t wait to hear about your superior judgment.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Bias?
Bullshit. That is your biased reading of it. It was not phrased as a question. It was phrased as a statement. "He was doing something with the youngster. It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was."
Nothing bullshit at all. The qualifiers both make this a question. There is no doubt about it. It isn’t even debatable.
WE know for certain MM did not see genitals or hands
We know for a fact he was no 100% certain
We know for a fact he saw a back for a couple of seconds.
Of course it is a QUESTION and a suspicion.
IN CONTEXT
“Well I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously he was doing SOMETHING with the youngster. It was sexual nature? I’m not sure exactly what it was” = NO evident crime involved with the obvious ? after sexual nature.
The question mark is not implied. It is expressed with “I don’t know what you would call it” an “I’m not sure exactly what it was”
You can say “bullshit” all you want. It does not alter the fact. And the fact is there is no victim 2 despite amazing publicity and a direct plea by the AG for the alleged unidentified Victim 2 to come forward none has.
So the NO BULLSHIT fact is there was no sex act in the showers on Mar 1, 2002. And the NO BULLSHIT fact is that Joe Paterno did not know exactly what is was that MM was trying to tell him but he called Curley and Schultz anyway just exactly as he should have.
Now if you want to argue about what they did it would be a matter of opinion – but what Joe did was right – The AG and prosecutors say it was right. There are no charges, And you can scream BULLSHIT til you are hoarse but it will not alter the FACTS. MM was a lame witness and a poor protector for a 10 year old that night if what he is saying 9 years after the event is true. I doubt it is an accurate account of how he felt in Mar of 2002
I think he was freaked out about an adult male in a shower with a boy and that was all it took to upset him at the time. I think the AG wanted him to say more and put words in his mouth
She certainly put words in the presentment he did not see or say.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
1LisHell
t
rying to minimize this thing does make you seem like a creepy pervert.
I supply complete transcript and entire quotes IN CONTEXT – there is nothing minimal or minimizing about it. And if you think resorting to name calling is productive you’ve already lost the argument as much as M1EK
So if that’s the company you wish to keep and the association you wish to make then it’s all on you.
I have better things to do than engage another name caller who can’t keep up her side of the argument using the evidence and transcripts to support her claim without taking things out of context.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Which of these facts do you not get
There is NO victim 2
Mike McQueary did not see anything sexual by his own admission
All he had were suspicions
He thought 3 slapping sounds were rhythmic and sexual.
He caught two 1 or 2 second glances of a back
He saw no hands or genitals
He did not see a sexual act
End of story
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
If there's a child being caressed by Jerry Sandusky in the shower, he's a victim.
A victim of what , is a different issue.
by Chris Grovich on Jan 12, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Caressed?
or hugged?
or being stopped from falling?
or being stopped from running around slapping the walls and turning on all the showers?
What do we know?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Even more accurate
what would we have presumed in 2002 when Sandusky was still thought of as charity founder and foster father of six instead of monster and pedophile If we were Joe or the others?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
If we were Joe or the others
and we heard about 3 slapping sound and 2 second glances
and no pain
and no distress
and the boy being left there
and everything we know about Mike’s statements
and everything we know about the Doctors who heard it first?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Paterno admits that “[he] didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset.”
So again, I say bullshit. Paterno understood the incident was sexual in nature, but didn’t have graphic details, nor did he request the graphic details.
The apparent delight you take in graphically rehashing what happened in that shower, your comments down below about caressing and hugging and things, and the fact that you consistently try to minimize or normalize Sandusky’s behavior makes you a creepy pervert.
Paterno said exactly what is in the transcript above
WE DO NOT NEED the “creepy pervert” name calling jerk to tell us what Joe Paterno said – The Transcript is provided and tells us exactly what he said.
So what is the purpose of the HOMER?
Does he dispute the Transcript?
Does he deny it says
"I’m not sure exactly what it was"
"Well I don’t know what you would call it"
"Whatever you might call it".
and that proves he was not sure exactly what it was?
Is Homer’s mental capacity really that limited?
Why does he continue to make a fool of himself?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I'm with jesse. here
You make a lot of great points in your post. Don’t negate them by putting them alongside that second statement jesse. block quoted.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
While we may not know about "the brothel" angle
we do know these things about Second Mile’s lack of response and motives
Jack Raykovitz Did not inform Second Mile Board Members
Names of Second Mile Board Members who were not informed of Tim Curley’s contact with Raykovitz about Jerry Sandusky. It seems Sandusky and Raykovitz were close friends. This is the guy who was protecting Sandusky while running the Second Mile charity where JS took his victims. Why did Raykovitz keep Tim Curley’s information about Jerry Sandusky from his Board of Directors?
Raykovitz and his wife received $233,000. in annual salaries
from Second Mile for the years following the notification by Tim Curley that Sandusky would no longer be allowed to bring kids to use PSU facilities. That’s about 2 million reasons not to look their molesting gift horse in the mouth.
Second Mile contributed $25,000 to then Attorney General Tom Corbett’s campaign for Governor and board members contributed thousands more. And that money seems to have bought them a pass from prosecutors.
Second Mile knew of the 1998 investigation and the Exec Director Raykovitz was informed of the 2002 decision by PSU administrators to ban Sandusky from bringing kids to workout at PSU, but it was not until the 2008 revelation by Sandusky himself that Second Mile acted to restrict his access to children using Second Mile
And there was that story about Sandusky the pimp to donors
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Jan 9, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The term Brothel
Was used mostly as a reference to Sandusky’s behavior, vis a vis the Second Mile. It is undisputed that Sandusky trolled Second Mile for young boys to violate. It is also established that he plied these boys with gifts and cash. Hmmm….payment (in any form) in exchange for sex=prostitution.
That said, the other stuff regarding donors is speculation (its why I didn’t bring it up in this post). Still, it is becoming increasingly clear that Paterno was scapegoated, either by the BoT or Gov. Corbett. The question is why?
That question, I surmise, will come from the hundreds of depositions that will likely be taken in this case. I know if I’m the plaintiffs’ lawyer, I’m looking into those accusations and deposing everyone who might have knowledge. Even though a charitable entity (which 2nd Mile is) would have some immunity for negligent acts, if they were complicit, it would likely destroy any and all immunities they might enjoy. Further, if the rumors are true, that big money donors were engaging in child prostitution, there is no way they have immunity in anyway, and I ( as plaintiff’s lawyer) would be able to get all their money.
So, if the donor rumor is true, we’ll find out because there is tons of money out there for the lawyers if there is. Even if it’s not, to re-cap. Sandusky used the 2nd mile to prey on young boys and then gave them gifts/cash in return. That, boys and girls, is the legal definition of prostitution. Thus, either purposefully or negligently, 2nd mile was a brothel, if only for Sandusky.
by Keith Platt on Jan 11, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
If not for the totally bogus rumor...
…about the Second Mile actually being a brothel for not only Jerry Sandusky but for others as well, brothel would have been a colorful adjective. It read to me as though you were repeating it as an accusation, and there has been no evidence released to support it. Moreover, it’s source is slightly less credible than when Rush Limbaugh calls President Obama a Muslim.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Again
the term brothel was used as to Sandusky. Perhaps I could have written the sentence to read “for allowing JS to use 2nd mile as a brothel.” That said, I didn’t really think that it needed that level of simplicity when I wrote it. That said, I learned in a comm class a long time ago that a communication error is the fault of both the sender and receiver. As such, I take responsibility and apologize for my role in any miscommunication.
That said, as it pertains to Sandusky, 2nd Mile was, in essence, a brothel. He gave the kids cash/gifts in exchange for molesting him. Again, that is the legal definition of prostitution. If those being paid are housed in one place (such as a group home for troubled boys), the house would fit the definition of a brothel.
Moreover, as to those rumors of donors, I’m not saying I believe them. But, I’m not saying I don’t either. The fact is that none of us really know for sure. Just as most of us had no idea, prior to March, 2011, that the GJ was investigating JS. Given the revelations over the past couple of months (Sandusky, Fine, Red Sox equipment manager), I can’t say anything is beyond the realm of possibility.
However, what gives this rumor life is the fact that Paterno/PSU is getting a proctological exam (which it should), but no real attention is being paid to 2nd Mile’s role in this. For the record, I hope that its not true. I would hope that those who run a children’s charity would not be so depraved as to sell the children. But their relative absence from the GJ report and from any real media scrutiny, in addition to the large contribution they gave to the guy who started the GJ process, who is now the Governor of the Commonwealth, does nothing to quell the suspicions. I think it would behoove the Governor, AG and the Commonwealth to have an independent counsel investigate this thing, from stem to stern, to see if there was any impropriety between the Governor’s Office, AG’s office and 2nd Mile. Again, I hope those rumors are false, but after the past few months, I can’t say it isn’t possible.
by Keith Platt on Jan 11, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I amy be wrong but,
I believe that whether you’re a charity or not, you are still accountable in the civil and criminal courts, same as any other organization. Pockets may just be a different depth.
Most States
have some limited immunity protection for charitable organizations. That said, I would imagine that that protection would not cover willful, wanton misconduct or gross negligence.
You are correct, though, about the depth of the pockets. I practice med mal defense law in NJ, representing hospitals. For independent contractors, who may have privileges at the hospital, the hospital’s liability is generally capped at $250k. There are other nuances involved, but the take home is that: (a) most states have protection for charitable entities for pure negligence; & (b) some states have caps on the amounts that are recoverable.
As such, we won’t really know the level of exposure faced by the 2nd Mile and we won’t really know until the discovery process is more developed and depositions are taken. My sense is that 2nd Mile and/or PSU will attempt to get out through summary judgment but, if they’re not succcessful with that, will probably come up with some kind of settlement, which imposes a confidentiality clause on each plaintiff who takes the settlement. Of course, because the suit involves a public entity (Penn State), said discovery materials may be subject to a FOIA request.
by Keith Platt on Jan 11, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
We simply can't forget the injustices.
The way JoePa was “shown the door” is unforgivable. Even Keith Jackson was given a Penn State rocking chair by PSU to enjoy in his retirement; JoePA gets the BoT’s cowardly late night phone dismissal, his name removed from the BIG trophy, his application for the Presidential medal withdrawn, his name and career dragged through the media cess pool, irrational self righteous attacks from long-time haters, the uninformed and the mislead — all this in a country that prides itself for our hard-fought constitutional rights and freedoms (e.g., innocent until proven guilty — at least as a general ideal but apparently not in specific cases that are exploited by the media for their shock value; then exceptions to our constitutional rights are rationalized by mob mentality to be just fine — until they come for us.)
And no, I haven’t forgotten the children; that really is a separate issue that we must also wait to be sorted out through the legal system established under our constitution. The “what about the children” argument does NOT alter the fact that ALL of us have constitutional rights that we WILL lose if we allow it to happen.
Stop blaming Joe -- media mobs!
Nominate - Elect Franco Harris, Lydell Mitchell, Jimmy Cefalo to BoT (and vote out all nine alumni incumbents over next three years)
by OlderBudweiser on Jan 9, 2012 8:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Joe's firing did NOTHING
to help the children, and may have (according to one victim’s attorney) hurt them even more: There were people who focused their anger over Joe’s firing on the alleged victims. Not saying that was right of those people, of course, but not firing Joe would have prevented that happening.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Jan 9, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I still think that there is a valid argument
that the BOT’s and the media have taken the willingness for victims and witnesses to report sex crimes backwards in time. Internet bravado aside, tell me who in their right mind wouldn’t hesitate at least a bit before getting involved after watching this train wreck?
That makes sense under the circumstances
The AG had 6 now 8 great cases against Sandusky with willing and brave victims of abuse but chose to make this all about an alleged victim 2 they did not have because that wrecked Paterno and PSU. The real victims then became a sideshow to the venom directed at Joe and the university
The AG made it seem as if being a complaining victim was less valuable than being ear witness to 3 slaps and a couple of 1 or 2 second glances as long as they were not affiliated with Penn State,
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Aurabass, I'm not sure what conspiracy theories are needed...
since it seems quite likely to me that AG Kelly was simply trying to flush more evidence out against people at PSU by pressing charges, implying (at least) moral guilt, and begging for more witnesses. By showing some evidence against PSU and a lot of evidence against Sandusky, I imagine she hoped that more people would feel empowered to speak up about an intentional cover-up at PSU.
Let’s assume for one minute that not everyone that gets into a position of power worked their way there simply for their own benefit and to be able to behave badly (this is the same logic some people used to crucify Paterno). If Kelly thought this story and the involvement of PSU might be bigger than it is, and that it would be worth the gamble to find out, she does exactly what she did in the presser. I’m not so certain she intended to bring down Paterno unless she got the chance to press charges against him. It is plausible she was trying to see just how far this thing went down the rabbit hole and things spiraled out of control in ways nobody expected (just see the “preparedness” of PSU’s leaders for how big of a story this became).
In retrospect, it seems that the rabbit hole was nothing more than a little divot that her words turned into an atom-bomb sized crater.
In any case, I don’t like conspiracy theories when simpler explanations and fewer assumptions suffice. And regardless of big conspiracies or not, her and Noonan’s behavior at that presser was not appropriate for representatives of our justice system who are obliged to follow the law and allow due process. And don’t even get me started on the Second Mile’s protocols for protecting children (which were either non-existent or Jerry was an exception to all of them).
by BNittsDeMilo on Jan 10, 2012 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Additionally, she has royally screwed McQuery to meet her ends
Although he appears to be helping to dig his own hole deeper.
Striving for Success with Honor
by Frank O'Brien on Jan 10, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
Dueling Conspiracy Theories
I have started a post about “Dueling Conspiracy Theories” and the popular one that now prevails in public is the “Conspiracy of cover up at PSU”
I haven’t consciously tried to make the Second Mile – Gov Corbett – AG misleading attack on PSU linkage a conspiracy theory – but the linkage seems difficult to ignore.
I really like this “In retrospect, it seems that the rabbit hole was nothing more than a little divot that her words turned into an atom-bomb sized crater”
That’s a fantastic description.
Then there is this Sarah Gamin story excerpt that throws more fuel on the Second Mile + Corbett fire.
What about The Second Mile itself? Second Mile President Jack Raykovitz was told about the incident and the ban in 2002, the report says.
Raykovitz, too, never contacted the police.
When Raykovitz testified before the grand jury, he said Curley had merely told him an employee was "uncomfortable" about seeing Sandusky in the locker room shower with a boy, but that an internal investigation revealed no wrongdoing.
"At no time was The Second Mile made aware of the very serious allegations contained in the grand jury report," Raykovitz said in a statement after the indictments. Raykovitz’s statement said the new details "bring shock, sadness and concern," but said they had no indication any of the alleged abuse happened within charity programs and events.
According to the grand jury, then, here is how McQueary’s eyewitness account became watered down at each stage:
McQueary: anal rape.
Paterno: something of a sexual nature.
Schultz: inappropriately grabbing of the young boy’s genitals.
Curley: inappropriate conduct or horsing around.
Spanier: conduct that made someone uncomfortable.
Raykovitz: a ban on bringing kids to the locker room.
When The Patriot-News first reported details of the investigation in March, Raykovitz said he was assured by prosecutors that The Second Mile and its programs were not targets of the investigation.
I would like to speak with you via email if you would not mind contact using my screen name at gmail dot com
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
I guess the 'almost a lawyer' in me
wants to offer an alternate ‘conspiracy theory’ to those who buy the “Paterno and PSU covered up the crimes to protect the program” conspiracy theorists.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
More Troubling Information re: Corbett & Second Mile
Why did it take so long to get Raykovitz before the Grand Jury?
Botched Investigation by Corbett???
"It was completely mishandled," one source close to the investigation told The Patriot-News. "I know these investigations take time, some of them, but someone should have been on this day and night from the beginning because of the severity" of the allegations.
It wasn’t until early 2011 that The Second Mile — which Attorney General Linda Kelly said Sandusky used to find his victims — was officially notified by authorities of a child abuse investigation,according to The Second Mile.
Second Mile CEO Jack Raykovitz did not testify until April 2011.
"If they were taking the allegation seriously, and of course they were, then it seems the children of Second Mile should be of paramount concern," she said. "At a minimum, I would think they inquired of Second Mile about Sandusky’s role there, as of the time the investigation began, and whether he had contact with children."
All of this leads to the inevitable conclusion there is far more smoke about a Second Mile + Corbett+ Attorney General Kelly – botched cover up conspiracy than anything to do with the McQueary 3 slap 2 second anal rape LIE? What do you think?
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
How sure are you
of all this?
Are you as sure as you were when you were gleefully telling people the perjury charges would be thrown out in the preliminary hearing? When you were telling people here the presentment was “a lie” because it was impossible for McQueary to have seen anything in the shower room from his position in the lockers?
People here are desperate to believe you because you’re telling them what they want to hear. People here should be smarter than that.
by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's best not to encourage the pigs
when all you get is covered in pig crap.
If you try to answer with true logic as I answered these absurd “charges” in several threads he just moves on to some other absurd statement.
So I never reply to him as I have said I would not until he links and references what he is saying as I always do.
The perjury charges will never go to trial – that is what I believe but what I believe is of ZERO importance – what I can prove or justify from available information is what I deem to be important.
The Presentment IS a LIE because “McQueary never SAW ANAL INTERCOURSE and never told anyone that he did”. That has been provable since the Perjury Hearing.Transcript. If the shower layout was as speculated that would have also made it a lie – IF THAT WERE TRUE.
Of course everyone who is keeping up with the comments here knows this but I guess the Homer thinks he might convince some newcomer.
It’s a Catch 22 with this “creepy pervert” guy. Damned if you do and if you don’t
So I reply to those who post around him.
Prior to the Perjury Hearing testimony under oath all we had to go on were news reports and speculation about what those reports meant. After we got the Perjury Hearing Transcripts we had testimony under oath. EK can’t seem to grasp simple facts like that leaving us to speculate about his mental capacity and condition.
Speculation about locker room layouts, steam, distance, Dr. Dranov’s testimony as reported in a news source and time of the event, duration of the observation were used to offer POSSIBLE explanations for certain behaviors.
After we got the Perjury hearing transcript it became clear – there were 3 slaps and two 1 or 2 second glances NOT HE SAW ANAL INTERCOURSE making the Grand Jury Presentment A LIE
After reading MM’s testimony under oath we knew which locker room and did not have to speculate
We now know from his testimony under oath that
1 several showers were on
2 his first glance was through a mirror above a sink

3 his two 1 or 2 second glances were of the Back of Sandusky
4 he heard 3 slaps

5 a boy who’s head reached JS pectoral muscle was in front of JS

6 There was very little movement

and I could go on and own
BUT THE VERY SIMPLE POINT MOST PEOPLE OF EVEN LESS THAT AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE GET – THAT EK DOES NOT – IS
there is a difference between SPECULATION based on limited information and TESTIMONY UNDER OATH
So until this shouting “creepy pervert” name calling jerk can come up with a linked and quoted reference that is not out of context and does not contain qualifiers alluding to it being speculation – He will not get a reply from me to his defamatory and specious libel.
and I would advise anyone who asked me to handle this blowhard the same way.
No one has to desperate to read TESTIMONY UNDER OATH and form an opinion based on it.
The creepy pervert is so desperate to see Joe Paterno and PSU blamed for all of this he dismissed the testimony under oath and continues to believe the Grand Jury Presentment is not a LIE
HOW SICK IS THAT
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
by aurabass on Jan 10, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
How sure were you
when you told us that the GJ presentment was a lie and the perjury charges would be thrown out at the preliminary hearing?
Because you seemed pretty sure then.
How sure were you when you insisted that the layout of the shower room proved that McQueary couldn’t possibly have seen anything at all?
You seemed pretty sure then, too.
Also, more capital letters would probably help you make your case even more. And some more bold text, too. That can’t hurt.
Just take this
and this LINK as the reply to all future Homer posts of this type.
Plain English in regular text won’t work
and the “creepy pervert” name caller can’t understand it with CAPS or bolded text
Or provide a link
Or a reference
Or mount a coherent argument
Instead we have a parrot brain denouncing Joe Paterno as a bad guy on a Penn State sports site. The utter stupidity of that is quite obvious to anyone with reasonable cognitive ability along with this constant repetition of the unimportant.
So taking advantage of the license he granted with his name calling I once again try to find what might register in a language he seems to prefer and understand.
Since WORD’s don’t work – How about IMAGES ?

Could this be Homer?

Good thing Homer is not Penn State. He is not worthy of the honor.
eEK is a traitor to his claimed Alma Mater who knows the truth that the Grand Jury Presentment section on MM and Joe Paterno IS A LIE.
MM never saw anal intercourse
and never told Joe he saw anal intercourse
and there is nothing Rhythmic or Sexual about 3 claps or slaps

obviously incapable of comprehension no matter what words, links, style or images are involved.
Born in Fort Sanders - 1st Residence Aconda Court (Alumni Hall) - 1st games at Neyland 1947 - Mother = TORCHBEARER - Dad grad of UT & UT Law + professor BORN ORANGE and BLEED ORANGE .......
Needs more capital letters.
And misplaced apostrophe’s.
by M1EK on Jan 10, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I think.
And think it’s pretty much all I think, for now at least.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...

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