Moving On – This will be just the third Offensive System I’ve Seen at Penn State
by 87Townie on Feb 10, 2012 10:23 AM EST
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I want to talk about football. Normally I’d do this with a beer on the bar and jukebox music in the background. But we’re all working, so that’s out. Let’s try it this way…
Now some of you die-hards will probably correct me, but in my first 25 years of watching Penn State football, the offense consisted of:
- · Fullback Dive
- · Off Tackle Run
- · Sweep (to the short side of the field)
- · The Dreaded End Around
- · Screen Plays
- · Curl Patterns
- · The Occasional Out or Fly pass patterns
We used a derivative of that offense at State College High School, back when I played. As an aside, I blocked for Jay briefly, on scout team. He was third string then, behind former PSU AD Mark Sherburne.
The next offense we saw was Jay’s system, the Spread HD. I don’t know about you football fans, but the HD never really looked like a spread offense to me. It always seemed like a mishmash of the original offense mixed with the occasional, multi-receiver sets.
We still saw the Dreaded End Around far too often for my taste.
Our man BO’B brings something completely different. While he won’t name it, it will be the offense of the Patriots, as he told the Post-Gazette:
"It's going to be the Patriots offense. I'm going to be heavily involved with the offense. ... You can't put a label on it. It's not East Coast. It is a very unique offense and it takes smart, instinctive players to play in it. What we do in New England, it's all about the players. We have a very smart quarterback [Tom Brady]. It's a fun offense to be a part of once you learn it."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12025/1205735-143-0.stm#ixzz1lzPG8D5C
The offense is actually built around a small group of plays that they run out of multiple sets. If you watched any Patriots ball this year, you’ve seen that with Gronkowski and Welker. These guys line up all over the field, but still wind up catching the ball in the same places.
What I want to see is quarterback development. I’ve read many comments that say essentially: "The Patriots have Brady, that’s why the offense is successful". And that’s true. However, this offense looks like it will work great with a smart QB. I don’t think we have to a Greek god in the backfield.
B
rady (and many of the successful QB’s in the NFL) makes the offense work by reading defenses. He has the mental dexterity to switch plays on the fly to take advantage of what the D gives up. That prevents running off tackle when there are ten frickin’ guys in the box and MOYE is running alone…alone! Along the sidelines.But I digress.
What I saw, after the BO’B hire was derision from some official sports analysts. They were eager to point out that other former Pats’ offensive coordinators failed spectacularly after becoming head coaches.
Now let’s dig into the Charlie Weiss, Notre Dame debacle.
When Weiss failed at Notre Dame, it wasn’t because of his offense. His QB, some guy named Jimmy Clausen, had a 67% completion percentage. He passed for 3,333 years, 23 touchdowns, and 4 int’s.
Weiss failed because his defense sucked. They gave up over 388 yards per game and 24.2 points in his last year.
So, as usual, some of the sports analysts took the easy path to derision and indictment. However, our man BO’B knows his history, that’s why LJ Sr and Vandy are back.
However, I did find an articulate and painful article from the Bleacher Report about his failure. The author pointed out that this system is time intensive. It’s hard to develop this offense under the limited practice schedule of an NCAA athlete.
The author opined that "less developed" college athletes couldn’t adapt quickly from week to week, from run to pass to run. But I disagree.
I think that comes down to coaching. A good coach (hear me BO’B?) will drill the crap out of a set of plays, until the people know them in their sleep. Then during the season, he can mess with alignments from week to week.
That’s pure speculation…and those ND fans are still hot from their Weiss experience. But I’m hopeful. Hell I’m excited. I may pack up the family and road trip up for the Blue White game.
After 2011, I’m ready to go back to being a PSU football fan.
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I'm very curious about the offense as well.
And I’m nervous about BO’B trying to put too much stuff into the heads of the offensive players. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I do, however, love the manta “throw to score, run to win.”
I've been downhearted baby, I've been downhearted baby, ever since the day we met . . .
There's a fine line between complex and confusing.
A solid system doesn’t need to have dozens of variables that ends up causing confusion on the team. It needs to have a means of negating the defensive variables in order to keep the offense at a consistent advantage.
If you watched any Patriots ball this year, you’ve seen that with Gronkowski and Welker. These guys line up all over the field, but still wind up catching the ball in the same places.
This is proof of a complex system. Hopefully the same is applicable to what we produce this year. BO’B seems to be a smart football coach and I’m anxious to see how that translates to his in game strategies. I’m hoping that there’s a lot less playing no to lose and more emphasis on controlling the full 60 minutes of the game.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 10, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you, especially this part:
I’m hoping that there’s a lot less playing no to lose and more emphasis on controlling the full 60 minutes of the game.
No sitting on leads. I want to pound Big Ten teams into the ground. If its Wisconsin, Michigan, or Ohio State, I want to be throwing into the endzone even if we’re up 30 with under a minute to go.
Pass to Score, Run to Win.
I share some of your desire to pound teams into the ground.
I do not think it is necessary to do so when up 30 with <1 minute… unless it is our 3rd string guys doing the pounding.
I think I’d be fine with that :)
“Hey guys, they just put on that walk-on that broke his leg and has a permanent limp. Oh my god… he just scored!” Crowd cheers wildly for feel-good story kid and giving Biemela a dose of his own medicine
by BNittsDeMilo on Feb 10, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I will sincerely miss fullbacks running wheel routes.
by ChrisHarrell's_stache05 on Feb 10, 2012 1:15 PM EST reply actions
I would too,
If they were affective.
Pass to Score, Run to Win.
I think PSU's offense
in the past would open things up more then they are given credit for, when the coaches thought they had the players to do it.
I'm in for the Blue White game.
and getting my season tickets again. I want to be a part of this.
If they ever tell my story let them say that I walked with giants. Men rise and fall like the winter wheat, but these names will never die. Let them say I lived in the time of Bradley, tamer of offenses. Let them say I lived in the time of Paterno.
by SarcasmJam on Feb 11, 2012 9:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Making plans to attend my first one ever.
I think we should all make an effort to break some attendance records as we welcome BOB and this special class of recruits for their first scrimmage in Beaver Stadium.
I'll be making the trip for the Ohio State game
so I can welcome Urban Meyer to Beaver Stadium by getting hammered and yelling horrible things at him.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Try teaching him to count.
Maybe his oversigning tendency is due to his inability to count to 82. We can’t expect tOSU to provide a quality education, so if we don’t do it, who will?
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 12, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I am excited for some passes over the middle
I think the biggest thing we have been lacking offensively is passing around the whole field. I can’t wait to see TE’s getting the ball over the middle and maybe even have a threat at slot. I think with a strong running game and some practice with our QB’s play action will be a great addition!
The play book size is not a issue. As you pointed out these kids just need to learn the basic formations and each week tweak the plays ran out of those formations and frankly if play action is working it really does not matter what the D is running.
It’s been a long time since I have been this excited for a season. I might also add that it is a breath of fresh air to hear a coach talking x’s and o’s since its been 20+ years since we have heard it. Joe did not have to explain his offense cause he was Joe Paterno now we have a guy that needs to prove himself like Joe did 20 years before I was born.
by PSU_sincebirth on Feb 11, 2012 10:31 AM EST reply actions
I'm sorry, but were you in a coma during from 2008-2010?
It drives me NUTS when people state things like “I can’t wait to see TE’s getting the ball over the middle and maybe even have a threat at slot.” as if they didn’t put Quarless and Brackett – both TEs, in the slot to create mismatches down the middle of the field OFTEN. As if Norwood and DWill and Butler and Zug and Drake (when healthy) weren’t all put into the slot to make lots of plays.
I swear it’s as if some people see the I-formation, get mad that we still run it (god forbid) and then black out during all the other stuff that they’ve done on offense.
Playcalling has been a problem for sure – but it had nothing to do with the formations. It had everything to do with predictability and trying to play man-ball when the OL and RBs weren’t built for it. That, and the piss poor execution by everyone the last two years.
by PSUEnrg02 on Feb 11, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on though...
Our offense was incredibly predictable the last few years. There were way too many times I could tell you what play was coming seconds before the snap and not only am I not a coach, but I havent stayed in a Holiday Inn Express lately either.
I dont think BOB is going to overwhelm the kids with too much. I believe it will be a certain amount of plays run from maybe 15 different formations and alternate formations. Maybe a guy is in motion on one play.
I think BOB will have a base offense that will be more complex than before, but not too much for a Penn State mind to digest. From this I believe he’ll add a set amount of plays each week that will be determined by scouting the upcoming opponent’s defense.
Once they have the base Offensive game plan down, revolving in and out the actual game plan plays is what should keep us unpredictable and THAT should be the most challenging part of the offense.
"Heaven hired THE best coach ever".
Paul Jones
It was predictable when Joe didn't have confidence that his players could execute
the basics consistently. I actually remember being among the few complaining about the play calling in 2008 – and my only gripe was consistently trying to power it up the gut on third and short when the OL wasn’t built for it, and they had SO MANY other options. Since 2008, unfortunately we’ve had either inexperienced WRs and OL (2009) or QB (2010) or just awful execution from everyone (2011). IMO better play calling would have helped 2011 to a degree, but the coaches decided early that with that team they’d try to win with an average running game and defense. It ALMOST got them to the CCG.
All that said, I’m not suggesting that the kids will or will not be able to handle a bunch of new formations. That will vary by team, as we’ve seen the last few years. I just hate when people list a bunch of stuff they want to see the coaches do (use the TE, move the TE around, throw to the middle of the field, etc) when they were actually pretty creative with many of those things already.
by PSUEnrg02 on Feb 11, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'll give you Butler but that's it.
Ya we had TE’s play at penn state and yes they ran over the middle but they did not make a consistent impact on any game.
And sorry I drive you nuts.
by PSU_sincebirth on Feb 11, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
PSUEnrg02, you have a point, BUT...
I think you are focusing on 2008 and 2009. We had some great kids, we adapted Jay’s new system for the QB and the receivers we had at the time. That should have been the base of a new Offense that grew as we recruited to it…but that’s not the case. I would argue, based on the stats, that 2008 and 2009 weren’t about our offensive scheme, but about our talent level.
Here’s what I mean:
In 2008 we did pretty well. Just 6 picks on 383 pass attempts. And we converted 52% of our 3rd downs. That’s okay. However, what stands out to me was the Rose Bowl loss.We went 5 of 12 on 3rd downs and DC threw 2 ugly interceptions.
Things go downhill from there.
In 2009, we went to 10 picks on 397 attempts. Our 3rd down conversion rate fell to 48%. And our losses were ugly. In our loss to Iowa in 2009 we were 12 of 32 with 3 picks. In the loss to tO$U that year, we were 12 of 28 with 1 pick.
In 2010, we managed 42% on 3rd down conversions, with 17 picks on 425 attempts.
Then in 2011, the wheels come off. We threw 12 picks on 376 attempts and converted just 36% of our first downs.
Let’s look at productivity too. In 2008 we scored 63 TD’s. In 2009, 47 TDs. in 2010, 37 TDs, and 2011 29 TDs.
How about redzone stats? 2008 was awesome. We scored 92% of the time in the red zone, 67% of the time was a TD. IN 2009 it fell to 88%, 59% TDs. In 2010, 81% with 56% TDs. And in 2011…76% with 50% TDs.
Pass to Score, Run to Win.
Lets talk about talent level.
Specifically, the talent level of the o-lines and qb’s, because that’s where I think the issue has been on offense the last couple of years. In my opinion, the o-line was worse in 2009 than it has been the past two seasons. Which led to a weaker running game when combined with the o-line caused issues with the passing game. We saw this with in the two losses, we couldn’t run the ball and couldn’t protect Clark which led to piss poor play on the offensive side of the ball.
Now in 2010 and ‘11, I think the line was still an issue, but they weren’t as bad, at least not in pass protection. I believe the bigger issue was the qb position. With no threat of throwing the ball, it allowed teams to stack the box which further weakened the rushing game.
You also mentioned recruiting. I think the staff tried to get players that could run the Spread HD. Unfortunately, one of those players didn’t develop enough which forced us to go to an even younger player and a former walk-on. Which leads me to piggy back on what FB6244 said, and that’s that the staff opened things up when they believed they had the players for it.
And as for the Rose Bowl.
I wouldn’t exactly call those picks ugly. Both happened late in the game with one having been tipped at the line and the other was forced into the endzone near the end of the game. The tipped ball was definitely not ugly, I can give you the other I guess.
I also believe the offense was playing tight in the first half which led to some stupid penalties and poor execution. I thought the offense played much looser and better in the 2nd half. And it wasn’t because USC took their foot off the pedal, their starters were in pretty much the entire game.
also in the rose bowl
i think a big strategy of ours was to keep our offense on the field as much as we could. Losing Royster at the end of the first was a huge loss because it took our best between the tackle runner out of the game.
those 3rd and short downs (where we converted in the 1st qtr, we’re shut down in the remaining qtrs.
that and those huge ass receivers running posts in the 2nd qtr… that hurt.
We are not normal...WE are Legends...We are PENN STATE!
by hawaiipennstatefan on Feb 13, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Greens fumble after a 30 yard catch was devastating...
But to be honest we were down 24-7 at that point.
Their offense destroyed our defensive scheme. Thats all there really is to that game.
We played well in the first quarter and fourth quarter offensively.
"Heaven hired THE best coach ever".
Paul Jones
How hard can it be?
It’s football, not rocket science. Block, Tackle, Run, Pass, Win!
Son of an Infidel.....Eater of Vegetables!
by joefromboalsburg on Feb 11, 2012 9:02 PM EST reply actions
In the words of Joe:
Football isn’t a very complicated game if you don’t get penalized, don’t turn the ball over, and don’t make mistakes in the kicking game.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 12, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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