I know I said I only wanted to say this once...
by leeharvey418 on Feb 8, 2012 12:08 AM EST
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Printbut that was before it occurred to me that I was posting it in a thread that was sure to get shut down.
I think that the reason why those of us ‘inside the circle’ fixate on stories concerning Joe and his level of involvement is that we have seen what can happen to a person in today’s world when a story gets out of hand. A lot of us were saying back on that first weekend in November that we had no information that would sway our preexisting notions of who Joe was. We were saying (very rightly so) that the Grand Jury presentment did not contain the end-all be-all version of events. We were saying that anyone who was calling for Joe’s immediate firing was operating on assumption rather than fact.
Since then I have read countless articles and comments that are based on the paradigm of Joe being willfully blind, if not complicit in a conspiracy, for the sake of protecting his program. These items are typically peppered with inferences (if not outright statements) that Joe and Sandusky were friends, that Joe was effectively in charge of the entire University, that Police Services was not a ‘real’ police force, or any of a number of other red flags that indicate that the author’s intentions are at best sloppy and at worst libelous. These pieces have informed the majority opinion, as any objections are conveniently shouted down with claims that the objector does not care about children, or that no one could defend Joe if they stopped to consider what he would have done if it had been his grandson in the shower with Sandusky. The indelible image out of State College from the week after the presentment was released is the students protesting against the treatment of – what is in the minds of the great majority of viewers – ‘just the school’s football coach’.
Those students understood, just as many of the regulars on BSD understand, that Joe was much more than just a football coach. I’m not going to list his accomplishments beyond the football field, since anyone who is going to give a damn already knows who Joe was and what he did. The reason why those kids took to the street on November ninth, and the reason some of us will always continue to defend Joe, is that if a man of his stature can be taken down by speculation and lies, then what chance does any of us have?
I noticed that people are still reading that thread, as the number of recs seems to be increasing on a number of comments (including this one). I'm curious as to what part of this resonates with people, and whether it might play with non-cultists.
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Your best work yet
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
Ah hatred
it’s the new guilt
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
Franco Harris:
"If I had to choose today between the moral integrity and character of Joe Paterno and the politicians and commentators criticizing him, I would pick Joe Paterno, hands down, no contest every time."
Thanks LeeHarvey
The part the resonates with me is that this could happen to anyone, regardless of public standing or past accomplishments, your life as you know it can be taken from you without merit. This has been occurring with increasing frequency due to willful negligence of the media, which instead of providing facts, only feeds the fire with assumption, fact less opinion, and the cries for condemnation or worse. The reason we have all noticed is that this time is the focus of the frenzy was someone we loved and what happened was so blatantly obvious as to leave no doubt what had occurred.
The part that is even more disconcerting is how grossly naïve and lemming-like we are as a nation, that we do not even notice the chaos going on around us until it impacts us personally and that the vast majority of us either chose or cannot think for themselves. Is this really a character trait we want to be defined by?
Hopefully we, as a community, have learned a lesson.
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
by belbijou on Feb 8, 2012 7:56 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
And thanks for posting this, leeharvey. In addition to much sadness, my initial reaction, although quite clouded and vague, was something to this effect. Even if JoePa had made this mistake, and not sure that he had, could one single moment of weakness or of failure to realize the potential harm to be done outweigh an entire mountain, a life’s worth, of good. Because to see the response of the media and the torrent of (negative- all I had access here in Germany) articles casting aspersions at him, it was as if judgment had been passed already.
Having said that, I was very uncomfortable by one specific event. I guess there was a rally (I do not know if it was the one where there were ‘riots’ later), but ESPN (sorry, Germany) were interviewing a graduate student, and he pointed out that nobody should be discussing the harm done to JoePa given the gravity of the accusations. A laudable opinion, if not one shared by everyone, and the tension with the crowd was palpable, including some boos. And when the interviewer had to ask, are you scared for your safety to be saying things like that in this crowd (rather fearmongering), the guy, somewhat shaken, responded, well, you would have to be.
I guess, for me, that was the line not to be crossed, where support for JoePa became an us against them proposition threatening ill will against even other Penn Staters who placed focus on the situation of the children
"It's football the way it's meant to be played. That's who Pittsburgh is, and that's who Pittsburgh has always been."
-- so says Rex Ryan.
Good post
I made the 4-hour drive to State College this past Saturday in the hopes of paying my respects at his grave (could not find it), stopping by the statue (about 25 other people were also there), and walking by his house (amazing to see in person). I didn’t do any of this because of “just the school’s football coach,” but because Penn State made me what I am today and because he made Penn State what it is.
The part of your statement and others like it that resonates the most with me is that a lot of us are feeling similarly but either don’t know how to express or it have had difficulty finding people open-minded enough to actually listen to our position.
I agree with belbijou above as well. My greatest disappointment/fear (insert obligatory “I care about the children too” statement here) is that if university leadership can fire (I don’t care what euphemism they use, he was fired) someone with 61 years at the school who has done as much and donated as much as he has without even asking him a question or providing him an opportunity to share his side of the story, then what hope is there for anyone else to be treated fairly?
On a personal note, I started reading/commenting/posting on BSD pretty much immediately after Nov. 9. I genuinely appreciate the community here and feel very much at home… I know exactly two of you on here outside of the comment threads, but it has been nice all the same.
by kflintosh on Feb 8, 2012 9:46 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
For paying respects
I posted this in a previous thread as well. If the mods feel it is redundant, distasteful, unneeded, etc., please feel free to remove it.
Humanum est pati.
Joe wasn't Catholic?
Get out.
"Is that a shot at me? 'cause that makes me want to read it all the less."
Right click, save.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
What resonates with me...
is just about all of it honestly.
I think that the reason why those of us ‘inside the circle’ fixate on stories concerning Joe and his level of involvement is that we have seen what can happen to a person in today’s world when a story gets out of hand.
This… and the fact that focusing so much hatred on Joe is detracting from everyone learning most of the real lessons we all should take from this story. The suffering of the victims (the ones everyone is screaming about nobody caring about while they rail Joe Paterno) has absolutely no meaning if we don’t learn to prevent this. Just a few of the lessons we should learn: 1) Go immediately to the police if you eyewitness something that you consider sexual between a child and an adult, 2) pedophiles could be anyone, from the creepy looking woman down the street to highly functioning adults who are master’s of their profession and who apparently have dedicated their life to children, 3) wives cannot be trusted to know about or stop the bad behavior of their husbands (fold in the Syracuse story here), 4) child-focused charities like the Second Mile HAVE to do a really good job of protecting children from EVERYONE, 5) parents (especially) need to be vigilant and persistent in order to prevent their and other children from being abused, 6) if you don’t go immediately to police and you are an eyewitness to a crime, you have the duty to follow up to make sure the response of your company/institution is in line with the crime you have witnessed (i.e., the angst toward Joe would be squarely directed at McQueary, who according to his own testimony did not object to the handling of the event to any of his superiors, if Joe Paterno did not have the notoriety he does), 7) State College is not a special bastion of pedophiles and morally bankrupt characters, it is like any other small-town in America where most people live within at least a few miles of a registered sex offender and who knows how many sex offenders that have not been caught (take the Syracuse and the Citadel examples as further proof that PSU is not “special”).
These items are typically peppered with inferences (if not outright statements) that Joe and Sandusky were friends, that Joe was effectively in charge of the entire University, that Police Services was not a ‘real’ police force, or any of a number of other red flags that indicate that the author’s intentions are at best sloppy and at worst libelous.
Without exception every discussion I’ve had where the person thought Paterno was guilty mentioned that he “was the most powerful person in SC” or “he ran the University.” These statements are provably falsifiable, but the implication of them is that Joe knew everything going on at the school and in Sandusky’s house (things that apparently even Sandusky’s wife claims to not know). Obviously that implication is also falsifiable… so that’s when these people start really going on the offensive by asserting that I am being blinded by sentimentality or claiming I don’t care about children (neither of which I will ever be able to adequately defend myself against to someone who would make such a claim).
any objections are conveniently shouted down with claims that the objector does not care about children
How can one really ever argue against this attack? Especially in a pedophilia case where the defendant ran a children’s charity and adopted a whole bunch of kids? Can I point to the great things I have done for kids? Can I unleash hell’s fury on Sandusky to prove my anger?
Once the conversation devolves into this (and it happens quite quickly because this is the same argument the media has made about the students reaction and the isolated and cult-like State College area), there’s no sense arguing anymore. This, again, is frustrating because of my points above about missing how/what we can learn from this. If you think Joe made a bad decision, fine. How can we make sure that other people like Joe don’t make the same bad decision? There is no solution and nothing to learn, if you just dismiss Joe as evil because evil people knowingly do evil things… and evil people are really good at hiding it (e.g., Sandusky getting away with this for >10 years despite multiple police investigations).
The reason why those kids took to the street on November ninth, and the reason some of us will always continue to defend Joe, is that if a man of his stature can be taken down by speculation and lies, then what chance does any of us have?
The media would never acknowledge the real reason they were angry, and I really don’t condone the students behavior because of the perception that other people have of it, but I also really don’t fault them for at least directing most of their anger at the people who many of us still believe drove the nail into his coffin (speaking of his firing, but of course you could argue the assassination of his character did not help his health).
Also, many people do fail to see that our “worship” of Joe has more to do with what he did as a human being off the field than it did with what he did as a “God” on the field. If Joe were just a football coach we would have unceremoniously, and without much controversy, fired him in the early-00’s like FSU did to Bobby Bowden. Even most people that thought Joe should leave coaching respected what he did for the University. That’s why he “got away with” continuing to coach when Bobby Bowden didn’t.
by BNittsDeMilo on Feb 8, 2012 12:51 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
And that's why the BoT didn't pull the trigger in 2004.
Joe was more about wins and losses, unlike Bobby Bowden. Joe was the university’s single biggest fundraiser. Not the athletic department’s fundraiser, but the university’s biggest fundraiser. Had Joe just been a coach, he would have been gone. But his greater deeds made him such a powerful, iconic figure that to have gotten rid of him for mere losses on the football field, when he stood for so much more, would have made the university look like hypocrites.
Then 2011 comes along, pedophilia is involved, the ignorant masses go berserk, Joe is the only person with enough courage to admit mistakes, and there is excuse (however lame) to get rid of Joe.
by Ab4PSU on Feb 8, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Joe ran State College
One of the most frustrating things about the attitude toward Joe was that most of the media and the public would have and DID say on Nov. 4 that Joe was a figurehead, he hadn’t actually coached in years, and he ultimately did nothing any more. Suddenly on Nov. 5, the guy ran the day-to-day operations of not just the football program but the university as a whole, he was the mayor of State College, and he knew everything that anyone in the 16801 or 16802 zip codes.
by kflintosh on Feb 9, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
My argument to this, as of late
Is that Joe Paterno was arguably the most influential person in State College, maybe even the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. However, influence and power are not the same things. He was certainly not the most powerful person in State College. If he was, he wouldn’t have been fired, especially like he was and without a fight.
You can be the most influential person in the world, and have little to no actual power.
Conflating influence and power is a dangerous game brought on be either ignorance, laziness, or malice. Either way, it adds nothing useful to an intellectual discussion.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I had a change of heart when replying to your comment.
I was initially going to point out that 2002 Paterno was different than 2011 Paterno. However, I started at Penn State in 2003, and even then the “figurehead” assertions were being thrown out practically as often as they were in 2011. There has been very little that had actually changed regarding Paterno’s involvement in Penn State from 2002 – 2011, and yet he has been accused of doing nothing and doing everything simultaneously.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
One of the most frustrating things
about that response is it ignores the difference between 2002 (two years before 2004) and 2011 (where he really was just a figurehead).
He had as much power as Spanier and the BOT in 2002-2004.
Did he though?
I don’t believe he did. He had more influence in the community at large, and probably as much if not more in the University. But when it came down to it, JoePa didn’t have any actual power outside of the football team.
Look at it this way. Could JoePa have fired Curly, or Spanier? No. He could have lobbied, and eventually garnered support to get the ball rolling, but it would have cost a lot of political capital and greatly affected his future influence
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Influence is capital that can be used in powerful ways. It is not power.
Example: There is a highly respected, senior scientist at your company. He’s been there longer than most anybody, but isn’t in a managerial role. His opinion is valued, but when it comes down to it, he can’t fire anybody. Sure, he can lobby to have them fired, but if management doesn’t agree it could well be his ass that ends up on the street for confronting management.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
To boil this down:
If something is not within your job description, you do not have power. You can have influence over the people with that power, but you can’t take those actions on your own.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with you.
Influence is a form of power. You are making a distinction that could just as easily be explained as “influence versus responsibility”.
Agree to disagree
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
Again you confuse influence and power
He had enough influence with the BOT in 2004 to keep his job. That influence was no longer there in 2011.
I don't buy this
I was at Penn State from 2002-2006 and have remained involved with the university ever since. I’ve spent more time than I’d like to admit reading about and studying the university’s history and Joe Paterno’s times there. To be fair, hints were being made that he had reached “figurehead” status well before 2002, and that he had slowly been stepping further and further back as far back as 1996.
Now whether or not that’s accurate, I can’t say. My point is that it’s hypocritical for the same people to say “he knows and does nothing” on Nov. 4, then turn around and claim he’s all-knowing, all-seeing on Nov. 5. Regardless of the accuracy of how much or how little he did, make the flip-flop because it supports the argument is hypocritical, plain and simple, and I don’t see how that can be argued.
by kflintosh on Feb 9, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I was there from 2003 - 2008 and completely agree.
The same comments made recently were the same ones I dealt with when I started. It’s only to make the allegations seem more plausible that people are suddenly claiming differently.
Remember that this was also during the time when people were calling for Joe’s head. It’s not like he was carrying the amount of support he had been used to. This was among the times when he was the most weak in actuality.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
The most "weak"...
…and the most distracted by on-field performance and focusing on trying to get things back on track.
I would suggest that part of the reason he might not have been more diligent in following up on this is that he was quite aware of the sentiments around SC at this time and was focused on doing his job so that he could keep it (which is not something somebody with power would really be concerned with).
Part of doing one’s job well is delegating responsibility to the appropriate people so that you can focus your energy on the things that you have the most expertise with. It is quite reasonable that the reason Joe didn’t follow up more vigorously is that he simply passed it along and really didn’t think a lot about it after that. Not because he’s a monster but because he thought he had done enough to address it and he had other things that were much more in his purview to worry about.
by BNittsDeMilo on Feb 9, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
And I believe Joe was also dealing
with his brother’s illness. George had moved to State College during his illness, specifically to be closer to Joe and Sue. While he didn’t die until late June 2002, I am willing to bet Joe was focused on George’s situation during the spring of 2002. Then after George passed in late June, Joe may have been dealing with the aftermath . . .
All in all, there was a lot going on in Joe’s life in early-mid 2002.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Feb 9, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I did not know that
but thank you very much for sharing. Adds some additional context that ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY NO ONE has mentioned.
Indeed.
So in 2002, Joe was dealing with unrest among the fanbase, a decline in football performance, and his brother dying. Wow. Increases my respect for him that he didn’t just hang it up, but instead brought the program back in 2005.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Context?
Not many people cared about context before, I can’t imagine it matters now.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
Actually, it's been mentioned once
or twice before, but got drowned out.
As SwHA notes, that’s a whole lot for anyone to handle — doesn’t matter if you are 75 or 25.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Feb 9, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, it's not hypocritical.
As long as you make the distinction that when people are talking about “all-knowing, all-seeing” they meant 2002, not yesterday in 2011.
In 2004, he was able to tell the BoT to pound sand.
No he didn't
What is your evidence for that statement?
He was popular enough not to get fired, but the same could be said for Ed Dechellis three years ago and nobody would have ever called him “powerful.” By that standard the Nittany Lion shrine is “powerful” insofar as there’d be riots if somebody tried to get rid of it.
He wasn’t pulling levers of power in Old Main. He wasn’t hiring or firing anyone outside of the football program. Spanier and/or the BOT have fired him at any time.
The story of him “chasing Spanier and Curley” out of his house in 2004 is pure media-driven bullshit. All three people involved in that story explain that they had many conversations and Joe convinced them he could turn it around. He was right. Just because he made a convincing argument for his own job doesn’t mean he was as powerful as them.
It’s irrelevant anyway. Joe explained in his interview that he chose to recuse himself from involvement in this case, just like a lawyer or judge would, because he didn’t want to influence it either way because of his ambivalent relationship with Sandusky. Every decision or non-decision he made after that followed logically from that first decision. Knowing what we do now – that Schultz is incompetant and that Sandusky had other victims – Joe wishes that he hadn’t made that decision. But at the time, it seemed smart or at least, I don’t see how anyone can legitimately argue it wasn’t well-intentioned.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
"He wasn’t hiring or firing anyone outside of the football program."
Well, except for Vicky Triponey.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
Like that asshat didn’t dig her own grave by dispanding the USG, among other things. I was a student during her ‘reign of terror’. Man, everyone hated her.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm going to have to see her husband next week
for the first time since she threw Joe under the bus. And I’m going to have to pretend to be nice.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
Work on your passive agressive behaviours in advance
If you’re having trouble, just look to certain commenter (on this very page!) for tips.
"I just want everyone in this situation to man the fuck up and accept some of the responsibility." SwHA
Maybe I'll use the same strategy
of avoidance!
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
Not true.
DeChellis was never powerful enough not to be fired. Curley just never felt like doing it.
This is the kind of unsupported non-fact...
that you keep chucking out there as factual. I don’t mean to hurt your feelings but this
He had as much power as Spanier and the BOT in 2002-2004.
is utterly ridiculous.
Losing a game is heartbreaking. Losing your sense of excellence or worth is a tragedy.
I'm shocked!
You mean to tell me that the non-administrative head coach of the football team, a person who is hierarchically the same as the head coach of the basketball team, wrestling team, etc. did not have as much power as the head of the university’s administration? Sounds like some kind of conspiracy theory to me.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
CEO of PSU Football.
A division of The Pennyslvania State University.
Note that Paterno as “CEO of PSU Football Inc” wasn’t even an administrator at the university. The administrator was Curley. Your assertion that Paterno was as powerful as Spanier is refuted by at least 2 stages of hierarchy.
Unless of course your place of employment, your division manager is as powerful as the CEO. Maybe it’s common practice and every place I’ve worked at is behind the times.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
PSU Football
A semi-independent company nominally under the wing of The Pennsylvania State University.
If you are claiming Curley was more powerful than Paterno, please do so in a post all by itself so I can frame it and point to it as an example of how stupid you are.
Thanks in advance.
Curley was Paterno's boss.
Definition of boss: a person who employs or superintends workers; manager.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Try again.
You claimed he had more power.
Tell me he had more power than Paterno. Please. I need a laugh.
Define power.
Curley’s position has more power than Paterno’s. Period. In terms of authority and responsibility. You can say Paterno had more support, respect, whatever, but that doesn’t mean he has the ability to supercede his duties. Curley had more power and more ability to exercise it than Paterno.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ability to get what you want
is power. Paterno could threaten to stop raising money and get whatever he wanted.
Curley would have been very quickly fired if he tried to tell Paterno to do something he did not want to do.
This is a matter that I think SubLime would be better at than I.
The problem with saying that Paterno had the greatest power is that he was limited in means of wielding it. If you’re going to add influence and celebrity in to the definition of power, he was still not able to fire or control his superiors. He could leverage his value to the university for things, but that’s far different than making him out to be the godfather of Penn State.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I remember when Curley was very quickly fired when he was part of a group that tried to tell Paterno to quit
Which Paterno did not want to do.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Feb 9, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is true
I have one of his business cards. It actually said “figurehead” beginning in 2005.
"I just want everyone in this situation to man the fuck up and accept some of the responsibility." SwHA
by kijana's acl on Feb 9, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Weird, I got one in 2002
It said ‘figurehead’ then as well. In 2006 and 2009 I have a few from the spring that said ‘head coach’ but the ones from the fall definitely reverted back to figurehead.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
I believe that Paterno was the most powerful person at Penn State
But one thing that is often missed is the difference between power and control. Paterno had power because he could raise money. Just because he had that power did not mean that he controlled or was aware of everything that went on at Penn State. He did not have his own Gestapo.
by dontcallmescooter on Feb 9, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Oh no
You begain to invoke the Godwin Law. Might have to end all conversation here now.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
Eh... Gestapo's meaning has expanded to mean any brutal police force.
I’m going to allow it.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
Stasi
"It doesn't matter what people think of me," Joe said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
KGB
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
ISIS
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
Karate is the Dane Cook of Martial Arts.
And when I say exotic, it’s code for Awesome.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
This affair troubles me from several angles:
I guess, first, is the extreme selfishness and cowardice of people in this country who are supposed to be in a position of authority, who have to make important decisions. The BoT did not have either the intelligence to plan ahead and grasp what this could turn into, and waited until there was a mushroom cloud over State College, or they were so coniving in their animosity towards Joe they conveniently let it get to this point so they could do what they didn’t have the guts to do in 2004, and that was fire Joe. By waiting until November 9, they knew there would at least be some portion of the ignorant masses that would stand by them because of pedophilia being involved. Looking at Surma, being CEO of US Steel, just reinforces the stereotype I have of rich CEO’s only being concerned with more money, more power, more control, the hell with who gets harmed in the process.
Additionally, as it relates to the BoT, why couldn’t they stand by Joe the way Syracuse did with Boeheim, especially after the idiotic statements by Boeheim that the victims were just looking for a payday? Syracuse stood by their coach, and the media backed the fuck off. Our BoT let Joe flail in the wind, and it gave the media and the stupid, ignorant people in this country the scalp they wanted.
This thing also troubles me because, yet again, it shows the absolute stupidity, mob mentality, lack of logical, intelligent thinking that permeates this debased society today. Why did people have to be fired immediately? To make up for the BoT’s incompetence/duplicity in this scandal? To deflect blame away from the governor? To get the media out of State College before they started to ask real questions? The only 2 things that had to be done immediately were:
1. Make sure Sandusky had no further access to potential victims until his day in court.
2. Reach out to the victims to ensure they got help.
Nothing else had to be done in such a kneejerk fashion. There was time to make the right decision, to allow Joe at least a chance to defend himself. But no!!! The pressure from the uninformed, prejudiced, ignorant masses gave the Board of Cowards a blank check to do what they wanted, without debate, without question, and without consequence (or so they thought). I can remember Dan Patrick crying on his radio show, saying “just hug your children today.” How cute. Patrick gets a paycheck from ESPN. Was he crying any tears over ESPN holding a tape of the Bernie Fine mess? I think we know the answer to that.
This whole mess exposed the worst of a lot of different people, and it wasn’t just Jerry Sandusky who was exposed. It includes the Board of Cowards, the Governor, the media, and the ignorant, prejudiced, uneducated people in this country.
by Ab4PSU on Feb 8, 2012 12:53 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
At one point, early on
I actually thought the BoT was largely clueless and incompetent. I’ve since come around to the opinion that that may be true for a percentage (not sure what) of them, but there is also a percentage that knew this was coming down the pike and chose to let it play out exactly like it did. I’m reeeeeally trying to resist the urge to reach for the tinfoil hat, but what can’t be explained by incompetence at this point has to be blamed on malice.
While the media were all running around with their dresses over their heads early on, the file called “Scapegoat Joe” was pulled and the plan was implemented. These are very powerful people, and have ways of knowing what they need to know and when to know it. Their only miscalculation — and a common one among powerful people these days — was the assumption that we’re stupid and wouldn’t notice.
The best thing that can happen now is to keep unrelenting pressure on these slimy turds. Right after Joe’s memorial service, I was ready to walk through a cement block wall for him…I hope everybody who is demanding answers and accountability has the same feeling for a long time.
by Jitterbug on Feb 9, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
One point of contention.
Their only miscalculation — and a common one among powerful people these days — was the assumption that we’re stupid and wouldn’t notice.
I don’t know if I believe they thought nobody would realize what they did. I think they just knew there was really nothing we could do about it when we eventually do. That seems to be the spirit of people in power these days. Take enough control to ensure you remain in the position, and then piss on whoever you want. I’m certain the people pulling the strings were fully aware that even if the alumni were outraged, the most they could do is replace 9 board members, which said people were likely not one of those 9, and still have a firm grasp on 23.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
unfortunately this.
Though I also doubt if most of those BoT members really care all that much about their membership anyway, and now probably just look at it like a burden. I think jesse. is right, that as soon as they can make an unnoticed escape, they will.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Kneejerk reaction
The biggest disappointment in all of the related to Joe (insert obligatory “But what about the children?” statement here… again) is that the BOT never asked him a single question, never gave him the opportunity to tell his side of the story, and declined to meet with Paterno when Paterno asked to meet with them.
If you want to fire Paterno over this, fine, but to do it in a way where you don’t even bother asking a man who has given you 61 years, millions of his own money, and raised an unknown sum of money for you (possibly in the billions?) is the most cowardly thing they could have done.
by kflintosh on Feb 9, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's another example of
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
by rahpsu92 on Feb 8, 2012 1:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, yeah.
My grandmother was fond of saying “Don’t lay down with dogs. You’ll get up with fleas.”
And apparently Joe did have a lot of contact with dogs.
But the dogs walked like a duck and talked like a duck.
I’m not trying to defend the people in this situation that threw Joe under the bus, but I’m trying to point out that they weren’t obviously bad people. Sandusky ran a charity helping thousands of kids, a charity that he effectively gave up coaching for. I’m still waiting to judge Curley and Schultz since we don’t really know much of what happened from the moment the allegations were raised to them until the decision to ban Sandusky on campus with kids was made.
As far as the BoT, I think there is always an inherent distrust in people with power. As we’ve seen in the recent accounts of former members, it is clearly not as fair of a power structure as we would like to believe. To me, the biggest issue is how to get rid of all the dogs and not just how to get rid of the fleas.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I have much more faith in dogs than I do in the BoT
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Canine BoT?
Older BSD inhabitants will remember this guy:
Yeah, I’m on the Rin Tin Tin for BoT Chair bandwagon.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
by SubLime on Feb 9, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Well then we are enemies.
The Lassie Platform: a return to traditional values. Cares about children and academics.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Big strike against Lassie -
Can’t keep Timmy from falling down that well in the first place.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
With a little PR spin, that becomes:
Excellent in crisis management.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rin Tin Tin could kick this dogs ass. . .
But he wouldn’t since he is far too much of a gentleman.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
meanwhile, Old Yeller's rabid ass still sits on the board
"It doesn't matter what people think of me," Joe said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
by BMAN13 on Feb 9, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks - this actually does help provide some perspective.
I’m not saying it’s comforting to know that people everywhere are itching to form a mob, but at least some people understand that acting on emotional supposition is wrong.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
That human nature is so unchanging is . . .
disappointing. Very unfortunate for Mrs. Yang that she has to deal with “she must have known” accusations on top of the devastation she’s already dealing with.
that's not the point (at least not how I saw it)
Even if Paterno wasn’t told, there’s a very real possibility that people would have made the connection/accusations just because he was King Paterno and should have known.
I mean heck, there are are stories out there so misinformed they think it is Paterno who was the one doing the molesting. Don’t think for one second that facts are important in the court of public opinion.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes.
Those people would have been dumb.
However, many more people here are being far dumber by saying Paterno did all he could have or should have and everybody in the rest of the world is just unfairly making him guilty by association.
Wow your scale of dumb is a wee bit off.
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
by jman07 on Feb 9, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
It's merely inverted.
Up is down, down is up.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
Different take
Personally, with the benefit of hindsight, I certainly think Paterno could have done more. But I don’t necessarily blame him for not doing more.
We’re forgetting that we’re talking about someone here who was in his late 70s/early 80s when all of this happened. My grandfather is the same age as Joe, and I have looked to him for some perspective on this, and people of their generation believe that people around them will do the right thing because they themselves do the right thing.
Joe reported it to his superior and the head of University Police (call him a bureaucrat all you want, the police were his responsibility) and trusted that they would do the right thing. They did not. If you want to argue that Joe should have followed up, I will personally concede that argument. But the argument that he did not follow up out of malice or out of trying to protect the program or the school is not one that I will buy.
Plain and simple, Joe’s error was in his assumption that people would do the right thing. And if those people had done the right thing, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
by kflintosh on Feb 9, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
To buld on this, the Schultz thing presents another problem.
Regardless of the was he/wasn’t he a cop debate, Joe went to the top of the chain. While this seems like a good idea as you know you’re getting who should be the best person to handle it, it also limits his ability to follow up if the outcome is unsatisfactory. Because Schultz was already involved, it would have limited his ability to follow up internally. That makes it a more difficult decision to continue pressing the issue as the only real avenue to do so is to involve people that were outside of the situation.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
That's right
This has been an education for me a lot of people, because my first thought whenever something really bad happens is to automatically go to the top of the food chain. The simple logic being – big problem=>big boss. But that’s got some problems.
What I’ve learned from this is that if I hear about something that might be a crime (but I’m not sure), I will not be satisfied that it’s handled until I see a copy of something titled “police report” and/or see a person with a badge that says “police” writing down my statement.
But the argument that he did not follow up out of malice or out of trying to protect the program or the school is not one that I will buy.
That’s really the important point. That accusation isn’t supported by the evidence. In fact, it’s largely contradicted.
Further more, the man has now passed from this mortal realm. He can no longer defend himself. Indeed, because of the drugs, etc, his ability to defend himself when he was alive was limited. So I think that everyone just has to let this go now. We’d all like to know more and pin down exactly what happened, but we cannot. We just need to drop this.
We can only move forward. We can try to learn from Joe’s achievements and his mistakes. We can try to prevent child abuse and help victims of it, which we should have been doing anyway regardless of what happened here. That’s it.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
There's another argument that gets thrown around a lot, and that really bothers me -
Joe was supposed to get copied on the police report? Really? What right does any private citizen have to see a closed police report? Can you imagine the uproar if Joe had been privy to any activity by Police Services that piqued his interest?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Not what I meant!
Sorry!!!!
I’m not saying that should have happened in this case or that he was responsible for making that happen. Not at all.
I’m just saying that now that I’ve read about how this happened and how communication can break down, if I am ever in a similar situation, I’m going to go above and beyond to cover my own ass! Whatever that takes. I recommend everyone else do the same.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
No, I didn't think you meant it that way.
You just opened the door to me thinking about other arguments I’ve seen.
Another burr that’s continually under my saddle is the argument that Joe knew there was no investigation. What, exactly, was supposed to indicate to Joe that an investigation was ongoing? Were there supposed to be SWAT raids of the Lasch building, complete with three or four helicopters hovering overhead, shining spotlights on anything that moved? Just because Sandusky never got arrested doesn’t mean there was never an investigation…
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
this bears repeating
Just because Sandusky never got arrested doesn’t mean there was never an investigation.
Combined with discussions with McQueary and Curley following the initial reporting, and everything could very reasonably be thought of as case closed
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is my biggest problem with people making judgments and assertions.
People base the judgment and speculation off of what we know to be the initial allegations and what we know to be the final conclusions. There is practically nothing between those two points that is known, yet those are the actions that are being considered immoral and not enough.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
another favorite of mine
“JoePa was fired because he was guilty of not doing enough.”
Makes me even madder for how and why they actually fired him, because people try to use that as proof that he was in the wrong.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I said it before:
The BoT firing Paterno validated all of the ignorant speculation. As soon as he was fired, everyone saying he did wrong considered it validation. Unfortunately for the BoT, they didn’t feel it was enough justification to stop hating on Penn State.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Because
nothing ever happened to Sandusky. He was still around campus and still working with kids.
At that point, you
ASK A FUCKING QUESTION OR TWO
at the bare minimum
which, and this is important:
HE ADMITTED HE NEVER DID.
He never admitted that
It’s a “fact” that you have crafted. We know from MM that Joe did follow up with him (at a minimum).
"I just want everyone in this situation to man the fuck up and accept some of the responsibility." SwHA
The "bureaucrat" point is to me irrelevant.
Show me a police department in this country which isn’t staffed with bureaucrats from middle management on up, including many who also carry badges.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Oaths
Guns
Badges
Schultz was also “in charge” of like 20 other departments of Penn State, none of which had anything to do with the police.
by M1EK on Feb 9, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Irrelevant
If I’m in charge of Emergency Response for a small town, that means I have oversight for the police, the EMTs, the fire department, etc. Because I have responsibility for the EMTs, does that mean I don’t have responsibility for the police?
I don’t care how many other feathers were in his cap, if he’s responsible for the police, he’s responsible for the police. Not sure how you justify, “He was responsible for the police, except that he wasn’t.”
Let's frame this scenario a little differently.
What are the odds Curley would have been fired or severly reprimanded if the police force beat up some kids at a tailgate or something like that? I am willing to bet he would have been in serious trouble for not controlling “his” police force.
Feel free to disagree.
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
How many other "administrators" ordered around police during riots?
I am Sandy's bitch
We Are Because You Were
@WadePSU
Semantics
Curley was not Joe’s superior in any way that mattered. This is the kind of bogus spin that makes the rest of the country think you are a bunch of Kool-Aid drinkin’ cultists.
Schultz was a bureaucrat. Joe knew this. Period.
I am not arguing that Joe should have known to go somewhere else FIRST. It is somewhat defensible. And I find this:
But the argument that he did not follow up out of malice or out of trying to protect the program or the school is not one that I will buy.
eminently reasonable too. I never said Paterno didn’t follow up out of malice or out of trying to protect the program, and I have corrected some who have.
The problem is that you cultists are ALSO at times trying to say Paterno did everything he should have done, and that anybody saying differently doesn’t understand the org chat or jurisdiction or the rules of investigation, when that’s just transparently obvious spin to the rest of the world. You can get yourselves to believe that shit all you want; nobody else is buying it.
Ooooooooooooo
The gloves are off! I love it when you get all internet tough. What are you going to do now, curse? Call me names?
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Feb 9, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
he's calling us all names over on EDSBS
he found some people who agree with him over there
Bent But Not Broken
Who gives a shit?
I think its about time that we all just stop responding to it.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Amen.
Although “gloves are off” comments are always good for a laugh.
by CvilleLion on Feb 9, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or
Just go with MainLions theorem: Its Rambler going all Andy Kaufman/Chris Gaines. Its funny that way
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
I like the Andy Kaufman visual.
Although laughing around an already-angry person can really piss them off.
Timing is everything.
Remember 'Modern Critical Interpretations of Reading Rambler'?
Part of me wants to make one for M1EK, but the thread would likely get shut down in approximately 0.68 seconds.
…and it would give M1EK more attention, which I truly believe is the thing he ultimately wants.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Communities often make the mistake of directing communicative behaviors towards deviates in hopes of reigning them in.
Of course, as you well note, attention is precisely their goal.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
At what point does the deviate reach the point of being shunned by the community?
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think that ship sailed on about December 14th.
Oh wait – you said shunned, not mocked.
My bad.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
12/14, but what year?
M1EK was banned from BSD a LONG time ago.
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but I never really crossed paths with him before his reinstatement.
Still, I’ve read some of his older material. I guess the saying about leopards and spots is still true.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Often never.
And that’s the community’s mistake because shunning is likely the only chance they have of restoring productive relationships.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
I don't think it's fair to classify all deviates as the same.
While I clearly think that M1EK’s goal is to get attention, I think that his means of doing so creates a need to prevent misinformation more so than it is to reign him in. In most conversations with differing opinions, the opinions are allowed to stand without much/any effort to change them. In M1EK’s specific case though, most conversations regard the information of M1EK’s assertions, and not necessarily the opinion of the assertion.
I do agree that the only way to restore the productive relationship though is to eventually shun the individual. That’s kind of the Catch-22 of dealing with a troll though as if you shun them, they win because they get to continue the behavior that is disapproved of, and if you continue to engage it, you prevent the community from restoring its productivity.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't stopping disinformation a form of reigning in behavior?
At least insofar as it would be the ideal outcome.
And yes, deviancy does take manifold forms, but I think you’ve diagnosed this case well.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
To an extent.
I think it depends on whether the target of the action is the person or the information. For myself, my goal was to address the information and not so much the behavior. I understand that they are inseparable, and thus your assertion that it is an attempt at reigning in behavior is valid. I think it was only through repeated experiences that it became apparent that the misinformation was part of a behavior and not its own entity. Long story short, you were right and I now understand what you were saying.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer to just flag posts that call people dumb, or jackasses
Bent But Not Broken
by letsgopsu on Feb 9, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it's no fun when he gets like this.
When it seemed like he was trying to be a clever troll, it was entertaining. If he’s just going to be like this, I’ll be much more inclined to ignore him.
As soon as I saw this post, I thought “next”. Typically with M1EK posts, they are too tempting to just dismiss.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I think the best internet policy, while hard to maintain
Is to just ignore the blatant ignorance, and engage reasonable viewpoints, especially those that differ from your own.
I don’t mind M1Ek when he’s reasonable. I actually welcome him. When he isn’t, I’ve taken to ignoring him. I hope others do that to me as well. Or point out when I’m being an ass (constructively) so that I can not be an ass in the future.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
And I think that’s the approach I should have taken here more often. Occasionally I’ll get into debates on other sites where my goal isn’t to change the opinion of the person I’m talking to, but to expose their ignorance and irrationality. It’s most likely pointless, but my hopes are that people with reasonable viewpoints will see it and maybe gain something from it.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
A few casual encounters have given me the impression
that EDSBS is populated mostly by adolescent boys.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Casual encounters?
I knew Markoff wasn’t the real Craigslist killer!
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
Can you imagine a life so shallow
and pathetic that such things as internet disagreements and discussions and reputations are that important to you?
I think its best to leave it alone
As in, don’t poke the bear. It gives him ammo to continue to believe that we are all some group-think, blindly attacking cult.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I know.
Haven’t bothered to respond for days.
But since the gloves are off I figured I would give him the chance to poke his own eye out.
I like comedy.
I guess I'm just asking the BSD community at large
To step up and be a little bit bigger about the situation. As much of a pain in the ass as M1EK can be, I don’t think we should be openly hostile towards anyone
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think anyone who uses the the death of JoePa
and child molestation to troll is worthy of a few violent acts. But in the interest of the community, and to really piss him off, completely ignoring him would be the best option.
Agreed.
As much as I really want to resort to his level, I absolutely hate when threads get closed. Even though 80% of them are devoted to debating M1EK, there are worthy conversations that suffer. That’s why as soon as he starts with the name calling, I drop out of the debate.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
We had a good whiskey tangent going the other day
And the thread got shut down. And it was all of our faults, no matter who anyone believes to be the instigator.
A whiskey thread! Shut down! That’s something I cannot stand for.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
I apologize.
I was part of the debates that got hostile. And I do love a good whiskey (or whisky depending on your preferences) debate. Although we need more Irish whiskey in the discussions.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I love me some Irish Whiskey
I’ll default to Jamison, because thats generally what most people carry.
Though when I’m buying whiskey for my home I tend to either go with Scotch or American Bourbon.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Tullamore Dew has been my choice lately.
Especially the 12 year reserve. When I drink liquor, especially straight, I need a bit of flavor along with the smoothness of it, which is why I like Irish whiskey.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Real Irish
only drink Powers.
Humanum est pati.
by Smee on Feb 9, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ever tried Michael Collins?
Granted I may not be the best judge since I’m really not that into Irish Whiskey, but it suits my taste.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
News for you, son
The rest of the internet believes as I do.
Without even seeing how you respond to me.
on the use of "son"
Do you mind if I picture you as Channing Tatum? Not that it matters because I’m going to anyway, but I want us to be on the same page if possible.
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
by WorldBFat on Feb 9, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's the condescension double-play he employs throughout these threads
#1: “Dear , you’re all stupidheads”
#2: Sprinkling in “son”, implicitly talking down to someone
Pretty fascinating crutches to lean on.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Feb 9, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I just want to picture everyone here arguing with Channing Tatum on the Internet.
I’m not gay, but I’m gay for this idea.
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
NTTAWWT
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
I'm thinking Jerry Reed.
When you’re hot you’re hot.
When you’re not you’re not.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
I was at a karaoke night at a bar in Longview Texas...
(hometown of Matthew McConaughey) the week after Jerry Reed’s death. I saw a performance of ‘When You’re Hot You’re Hot’ that may have been the finest karaoke performance I have ever seen.
I’ll see your non-sequitur and raise you a pointless anecdote.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I find karaoke to be the ultimate spectator sport.
Heaven help all of us if I ever get the urge to participate.
My two finest performances.
Life During Wartime, performed shortly after 9/11 and the angriest version of Stan (including all profanity) I could come up with. I actually practiced that one for a few weeks before hand.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Wednesday night happy hour in law school
I was usually fairly drunk, but I can carry Talking Heads tunes, and Stan was mostly about keeping up.
But yeah, Wednesdays in North Oakland, Bar-b-Que night at Charlies, Grateful Dead night at Thirsties, then $2 pitchers and Karaoke at Mitchells. All within a block of my apartment.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
also, where I come from
if you name is Stan we will call you Stash (stah-sh), not stache like moustache. Main Lion will understand
Bent But Not Broken
My finest (and only) karoake hour was after
an evening of masquerading as Mormon missionaries (with my roommate) I threw down the Devinyls “I touch Myself” in front of a packed house.
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
The key to Karoake
Is a large group of friends and a friendly bar.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
And cheap alcohol.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I'm more interested in the first part.
Care to enlighten us as to why/how?
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
It was at Marion Court in Lancaster...
It was a nice night and the court was packed. Post work we both had white shirts and ties on and we hit happy hour. Early on, some smart ass called us a couple of missionaries and it rolled from there. Before long we were being asked about our religion and ours views on marriage.
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
It was 20 years ago.
I really liked living in Lancaster. Lots of great local joints to grad a drink or good food. I was renting a house in the 300 block (i think) of Orange St so lots of places within walking distance to get stupid at (lots of dangerous places you’d want to avoid too).
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
I played the Lancaster Brewing Co. back around 91
"It doesn't matter what people think of me," Joe said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
This was not any garden variety performance either.
I screamed the profanity over the beeps. People actually got scared. Lot of rage in that song.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Sonnnnn, that sounds like a hell of a show!
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Stockard Channing?
Curious.. I’ll allow it.
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
I don't know, but they did it. They've done it before and they did it tonight and they'll do it again and when they do it-seems that only children weep.
let's meet in the middle
C-Tates with a bushy moustache
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
eating oatmeal
checking for diabeetus
Bent But Not Broken
by letsgopsu on Feb 9, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Did you seriously just bust out the 'everybody else says so' defense?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Number one
The rest of the internet believes as I do.
Bold statement that in no way can possibly be true. There are some ridiculously divergent viewpoints all over the internet.
Number 2. Look at my responses throughout the thread. Remember me apologizing directly for some open hostility that I’m not proud of and now regret. If you don’t remember, I’ll apologize again. I’m sorry. I’ve tried to stay out of it since then.
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Literally unbelievable
http://literallyunbelievable.org/
Reading this really makes one feel depressed about the state of humanity, but it also scuttles any thought that “people out there on the internet” are generally a source to be trusted.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I listen to conservative talk radio...
and I hear commercials for some crackpot site called God Said Man Said.
‘Dinosaurs and humans living contemporaneously? Yes! It’s on the web!’
Yeah – because putting it on the internet makes it unassailable.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
There are a few things in life that serve as obvious indications.
If most of the people on Facebook that I consider to be lacking intelligence agree on something, it is an indication they might be wrong. To a further degree, if I find myself in agreement with someone whose opinion I don’t respect, it serves as an immediate need to reevaluate my opinion.
I consider the broader internet to be the same. If the people yelling the loudest and using the least amount of facts have an opinion, typically it’s not the right one or they wouldn’t have to yell so hard and so consistently to try and get people to agree with them.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
News for you, (I would call you son for the whole fun "derision" aspect you brought in, but that would mean I'm guilty of bringing you into this world...hindsight and all that)
The majority of Americans reject the theory of evolution, and 4 in 10 believe in strict creationism (that the world was created by God 10,000 years ago), a number that has declined over the years (yes, I know 4/10 isn’t a majority, but it is a pretty large portion, and it used to be the majority)
PLEASE DON’T TURN THIS INTO A RELIGIOUS DEBATE – religion and science can exist hand in hand. Don’t forget that the majority of people also used to believe the Earth was flat, etc., I am just pointing this out to show that a majority of the general public very frequently believes in things that are often directly refuted by scientific, fact based evidence.
Or to take religion out of it: if the rest of the internet decided to jump off a bridge, would you too? (please please, pretty please?)
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
With the benefit of hindsight, you should have pulled out.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Your first fact is very interesting.
I don’t have the stats, although I’m sure I could find them if you’re interested, but when people who do not believe in evolution are taught it correctly, a large majority of them consider it credible. I won’t say that they immediately refute their beliefs or anything, but it seems like the biggest issue regarding their refution of evolution isn’t their religious beliefs, it’s that the people teaching it to them teach it incorrectly (either intentionally or out of ignorance).
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely correct . . .
Perhaps the theory most ill-understood by the general public.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Turnabout - fair play.
You can bitch and moan about me amongst yourselves on twitter, but I can’t take it elsewhere?
Grow up, baby.
Everybody is literally begging you to take it elsewhere.
Have you ever considered the fact that you can’t persuade anybody to your point of view because you write with open hostility and disdain for your audience? Or to put it another way, have considered the fact that you are a terrible advocate for your position?
You have chosen to waste your voice on this vitriolic character you’ve created, and as result, no matter how right you are, you’ll never change anybody’s mind.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Feb 9, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
Have you ever considered the fact that you can’t persuade anybody to your point of view because you write with open hostility and disdain for your audience? Or to put it another way, have considered the fact that you are a terrible advocate for your position?
I’m guessing yes. This is why he’s admitted he’s trolling. The problem is we let him, and I don’t mean in just that we reply to him, but we continue with the escalation to the extent that threads get shut down. Every time they do, as much as M1EK claims to be the “victim”, he wins.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Better NASCAR driver
Dale Earnhardt or Richard Petty?
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
Ricky Bobby
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
by psuphysicist on Feb 9, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Dick Trickle.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
That just sounds like
something you should take some Penicillin for.
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
NTTAWWT
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
We went to a bar on Sunday that had a dollar draft special during NFL games.
After the Super Bowl, it was the same special but for NASCAR. But we liked the bar, and the prices so kept going. I rooted for Gordon to piss off the rednecks.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Fair enough.
I actually think Gordon is one of the best pure drivers in [insert sponsor name here]-Cup racing, but I’ll never admit to being a fan.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
We used to get drunk and watch the NASCAR race
Then go race the Go-Karts at Tussey Mountain. A lot of people did that. Rubbing was in fact racing.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Drunk rubbing sounds hot.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Richard Petty.
Although I think Jimmy Johnson will have his name added to the discussion before his career is over.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Did you ever notice?
That Jimmy Johnson (the driver) kind of looks like former MLS and W&M soccer player Steve Jolley? I did.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Did you ever notice?
That Jimmy Johnson has a double-phallic name?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure
Is Jimmy phallic? Never heard that. I’ve heard condoms called “Jimmy Hats,” however, so perhaps.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Remember the gym teacher in Beavis & Butthead?
“KICK ME IN THE JIMMY!”
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Good point!!
Thanks for that reminder. From now on, that’s how I picture PSU’s new new S&C Coach.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You think his middle name is Peter?
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
JJ is so consistent.
Combine that with a solid crew that doesn’t make mistakes and you wind up with him winning 17 championships in a row, or whatever it was.
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
He was caught cheating during qualifying though.
Not trying to claim it’s the cause for his success, but if NASCAR was as big as the NFL, I’d bet it would be comparable to SpyGate.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Getting caught cheating in NASCAR qualifying...
is the functional equivalent of a holding penalty. It could get called all the time, but the game wouldn’t be as fun to watch without it.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
If you ain't cheating, you ain't racing!
Or something like that. “Cheating” in NASCAR isn’t as clear cut as in other sports. Just the nature of the complexity of it, I suppose.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but he was caught with jet fuel residue on his exhaust manifolds.
That’s a little more serious than being an 1/8th of an inch off.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Never heard that.
Not really sure if that makes any sense.
You don't use jet fuel as a "personal lubricant" and then go work on your car afterwards?
Freak!
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
Here's the link.
His crew chief was suspended for awhile and Johnson faced a points penalty.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I hate when links don't open into a new window.
I lose posts I didn’t z-out yet.
But thanks!
Looks like I was wrong.
Michael Waltrip had the manifold residue. Johnson was caught with illegal adjustments. Damn faulty memory. I would like to apologize to Mr. Johnson and Mr. Knaus for the error of the information I presented.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, that's not the right link.
That was another time when he was found to have cheated in qualifying.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Only if you're not into the science of fuels.
To me it just sounds like he was trying especially hard.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
What good would that do?
I hadn’t heard that either, but what would jet fuel in the exhaust do? Or is it evidence that he had jet fuel in the actual fuel? Maybe. I’d think all of it would evaporate.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Adding an oxidizer to the fuel would have the same effect as running a bigger carburetor.
…and I’m guessing that most NASCAR reporters wouldn’t get into the finer points of rocket fuel versus jet fuel.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Right, and since it was only found when he was qualifying.
During qualifying, he only had to run 2-3 laps, so the impact it had was more significant than if it would have been for the full 500 mile race (where it would’ve likely caused the engine to blow).
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
But the extra compresion
that could have damaged the engine, would have hurt since you go to the back of the field if you change engines after qualifying.
I'm not saying he would have used fuel and oxidizer in the same proportion as rocket fuel...
just enough to get a little extra edge without making it patently obvious that he was cheating.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I do love how it's called "stock car" racing
The only thing “stock” about those cars are the names on them. Granted, 70 years ago when it was in its early stages, they really were stock cars. But they certainly aren’t now.
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
Yes and no
They aren’t stock, but in a lot of ways, they’re much more stripped-down than the car in your driveway (probably).
They have carburetors, old fashioned stick shift, no fuel gauge, etc. The engines are huge, but then back in the good old days, regular cars had huge engines.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I heard somewhere that the COT
made them use some templates off the actual car. Like the hood and roof or something, but I might be mistaken. Yeah I agree, I would much rather see the cars look like the ones on the road.
Oh the shapes of the cars
and stuff like that are the same. But I mean, the transmissions, the fuel cells, engines, everything other than the body is far from stock.
Stock car racing is on the same level as jumbo shrimp.
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
Raises an interesting point
As gas gets more expensive and technology changes, bad ass American cars are going to be less desirable for most consumers, I’d think, so someday the manufacturers might stop making cars like the Charger, 900, etc. In which case, the marketing value of NASCAR would seem to be limited. Will they still sponsor it?
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
NASCAR survived the 1970s...
I think it can survive today.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Nascar isn't made up of
“bad ass” cars anymore. An SS Impala is a nice drive, but it isn’t bad ass.
Obviously the COT is safer...
But not being able to actually the purchase the “same” car that the drivers had probably hurt the marketing aspect of the sport a great deal.
But there will always be rich people who want to spend money, and crazy people who want to drive fast. I think NASCAR decision to expand north and west was akin to the NHL deciding that hockey in Arizona was a good idea. It’s a regional sport.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
To be fair...
you haven’t been able to purchase the ‘same’ car that’s on the track since about 1970.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
The body styles were the same until about five or six years ago...
…though right? I mean they at least looked the same. Kind of like a replica jersey.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
I don't know.
The Fords in NASCAR are supposed to be Tauruses, or at least were supposed to be after Ford stopped producing Thunderbirds. I think the late 90’s is when it really changed.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I think they all run the same body now.
It’s called the Car of Tomorrow I think. Now they have different markings on them, but are all essentially the same thing. Before then though, I think they were running “stock” bodies.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Not if you really paid attention to details.
The paint and decal schemes went a long way toward making people think the cars were different, but in reality the sheetmetal was identical.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
...and that says nothing about the fact that they were tubular space frames.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
talked my dad into test driving a Plymouth Super Bird when we were car shopping in 1970. Lots of fun
"It doesn't matter what people think of me," Joe said. "I've lived my life. I just hope the truth comes out. And I hope the victims find peace."
I tried to do the same with no luck.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Hope you didn't wind
up with a Volare instead.
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
Agree with that.
Exapanded too far outside of their footprint, with cookie cutter tracks.
Nope.
I observed your behavior here for years. It does not matter how nice or mean the opinion is presented; it matters that it is presented strongly and without compromise and in direct opposition to groupthink.
If that happens, the person holding that opinion gets attacked for being a troll and run off.
So, no.
By the way, I’ve gotten positive feedback from people who are reluctant to set foot here.
by M1EK on Feb 9, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because you
get positive feedback by pandering to ShaggyBevo or 11Warriors groupthink doesn’t make your viewpoint any more valid.
Alea iacta est...
by PSUGuru on Feb 9, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
More like
“Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.”
So to with someone allegedly finding supporters . . .
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
by PSU_Lions_84 on Feb 9, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, mate
You appear to have a serious persecution complex.
Also, you have a tendency to parody your opponent’s position to make it easier to beat. That’s intellectually dishonest.
You’ve also got a tendency to harp on certain points even after other people have explained why they don’t matter. For example, “Joe didn’t follow-up.” That is, by your definition of it, true. I don’t hear anyone really arguing that. What we’re arguing is that, given that he did talk to McQuery and Curley about it afterwards and he deliberately decided not to interfere with Schultz’s inquiry, that his lack of follow-up doesn’t mean he didn’t care. No evidence has arisen to contradict that, and yet you just keep harping on the “he didn’t follow” up. As a physicist once said “That’s not only not right, that’s not even wrong!”
These are things you might want to look into. Take some basic philosophy courses and learn about symbolic logic and arguments and such.
That’s my friendly advice. And with that I’m out.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Kenneth Burke would call it a "rhetoric of victimage."
I would too.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Seriously, mate
Today, I started treating you almost as badly as you have been treating me.
That’s the only difference you’re seeing today.
I didn't bitch
I didn’t reply to you over there, or inject myself into your dialogue. I don’t give a rat’s ass. And stalk me on Twitter all you want to see what I say about you. I would say it to you face anyway.
Bent But Not Broken
by letsgopsu on Feb 9, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As would I.
You’re an awful person – as are your friends – and their accusations of mental health issues are best directed inwards.
by M1EK on Feb 9, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Man, this guy is the worst.
Run.
by Bob Sacamano on Feb 9, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
the gloves are off
great…go fuck yourself and leave BSD so it can return to the cool site it once was
you’re a fucking moron if you think everyone is hero worshiping Joe. he was a flawed man in MANY ways, but he did great things. nothing wrong with celebrating those things. also nothing wrong with pointing out that he was wrongly vilified by many post scandal.
"my dad says Michigan used to be good"
by hbeach08 on Feb 9, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 29 recs
I am in on this
He took his gloves off now we can reciprocate!
Tiger Williams skates with me . . .
And drops the gloves too.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Go Leafs Go!
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
by NewJackCity on Feb 9, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You guys
are hero-worshipping him by blindly defending him here.
If you, in particular, don’t want to be lumped in with them, then don’t lump yourself in with them.
defense is different from blind defense
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
I know exactly what I’m doing. I’m not defending the person, rather I’m defending the concept of restraint, absent facts.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well . . .
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
by SubLime on Feb 9, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
A picture is worth a thousand words.
This one is probably worth 1,500 though.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Mike, I haven't been one
of the vocals shouting you down – i usually just avoid you and your louder voice becasue I really don’t have the time, energy or interest in engaging you. Do you behave this way off the internet?
I saw parallels in this story and thought it was a worthwhile addition.
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
There are no parallels
because Joe DID know. We don’t have to talk about “should have known”. He DID know. That’s where the parallel falls apart.
Do you behave this way off the internet?
Knew what when?
The 1998 thing? The previous stuff? No he didn’t. There’s no evidence of that.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I still say...
What was there to ‘know’ about 1998? That CYS investigated and found no reason to keep him from working with kids?
Yeah - that's a really great basis for continued suspicion.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Joe should have followed up with CYS
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
I'll agree that that's one thing he reasonably could and should have done after the 2002 report.
What we don’t know, though, is if he was directly told by Curley (or indirectly through McQueary) that ‘we notified the state authorities’ and didn’t think his own report would do anything more.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
he means that Joe was told by McQueay
while the wife in this story may never have known anything
by The JuggerNitt on Feb 9, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
We would love to give you a break,
but you keep coming back. Why don’t you just take a break yourself?
We all have emotions.
Some people’s emotions run a lot hotter than others.
The smart thing is to know when to step back, clear your head, calm down, and think.
The other bad thing with the mob mentality is do you want to be the one bucking conventional wisdom, and tell and inflamed mob THEY’RE wrong? Not many people with the guts to do that. It’s easier to just follow and blame somebody else when things go wrong.
I think you hit it pretty dead on.
Examples of this type of thing happening have plagued journalistic history, but I think there was a sense of naivety that it couldn’t happen to us, and certainly not to a person like Joe Paterno.
This situation all boils down to people having to be responsible for their actions. The internet is a very scary place as there is an ability to immediately post information. That combined with the relative anonymity of the internet creates absolute pandemonium. In those instances of hysteria, any voice of dissension is immediately shouted down or condemned as being the enemy. That immediate emergence of an “us vs. them” mentality is what took Joe’s role in this situation from being involved to being complicit. By extension, if you are currently not advocating that we need to deliver the execution immediately prior to actual facts and evidence, you are one of “them” and are just as bad.
These are the grounds on which I find the actions taken by the media and BoT completely detestable. They gave credibility to the hysteria by broadcasting it louder, feeding it with supporting information that was pure conjecture, and ultimately acting based on the voice of the masses instead on fact. The poles of opinion shifted immediately so that if you were trying to be moderate, you were suddenly a child abuse enabler. What should have been the middle now became the far right of the spectrum, and in order to avoid being included with “them”, you had to condemn Paterno to some extent. This happened with practically every media personality, including those that sympathized with Joe. It also forced us to “circle the wagons” in order to have actual dialogue on the matter that wasn’t immediately shouted down as “forgetting about the victims” or “supporting child rape”.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 8, 2012 1:31 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I would also add
Whoever characterized the grand jury testimony in the presentment had a great deal of responsibility. The media will always point to things like that and say they’re just reporting x, y or z. (Which is clearly simplistic, but that’s what they always say.) I’ve lost count of how many people quote the presentment to me as being the unbiased, unvarnished, chiseled-in-stone version of the truth. That presentment was essentially used (obliquely and ham-fistedly) by Surma the night Joe got axed. So I would say the Corbett-Kelly axis has some responsibility here — why that was dumped to the media and why (or how) it was written like that are just the first two questions I’d have for them.
The presentment is one thing that has bothered me...
not that it was released or for the language it contained, but that so many people took it as Gospel. Maybe I’m just smarter than the average bear, but I knew before November fourth that anything a Grand Jury puts out is going to be biased toward getting an indictment, and that maybe 25% of the ‘facts’ contained in its description of events would actually hold up in a criminal trial. People seemed to read the document and interpret the ‘FINDINGS OF FACT’ as the word of God – and not one single talking head seemed to want to point out that it was about the furthest thing from fact that’s ever produced in the legal system.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 6:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would have given a pass to some
in the media who mischaracterized the GJ presentment in the early days of the story, but with the passage of time, this was entirely irresponsible. There was one story on si.com that explained it; if I could find this information with a few clicks, any reporter could. Weeks and months along, the press continued to portray the presentment as the complete story, when it wasn’t even a summary of the testimony. I wrote numerous emails to reporters/columnists/editors about this. The response . . . crickets.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby
by nps on Feb 9, 2012 7:01 AM EST up reply actions
What really amazes me is people's reaction to the presentment being contradicted.
I think it’s happened a few times on this site, but it happens much more in every day conversation. When someone cites the grand jury presentment and their citation is contradicted by direct testimony, people default back to information contained in the presentment. It is absolutely absurd that an editorialized summation is considered more valuable than the actual testimony of the person who was being summarized.
I’ve also had several disputes with people that refused to accept that a grand jury presentment is biased by definition. Even people that admitted the entire presentment was created with a goal to create a reasonable suspicion of doubt, and that in the process of creating it, the prosecution was allowed to exclude anything that didn’t support or contradicted a crime, have still claimed that it is not biased. When people are so unwilling to take logical approaches to fundamental concepts, it’s practically impossible to try reasoning with them in shades of grey.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's because you're full of crap
The presentment hasn’t been contradicted. The inferences the GJ made are fully supportable by the actual testimony being made (of course, they are not proven beyond a reasonable doubt – not even remotely close – but they are reasonable inferences to make).
by M1EK on Feb 9, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So the assertions of sodomy and rape have been supported?
By what? Please enlighten me.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Indeed
The GJ has been contradicted on that point. Quite clearly.
There are also bits of important testimony that don’t appear in the GJR, such as that McQuery told Paterno later on that he was OK.
by reedjohnmiller on Feb 9, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Correct
The GJ presentment states the McQueary saw penetration; his testimony says that he did not. That’s a pretty direct contradiction.
Additionally, the argument that, “The presentment does not specifically say that Joe followed up, therefore Joe did not follow up,” is sad. I do not know if he followed up or with what, but the assumption that he did not solely on the fact it does not say he did is poor. It also does not say, “Joe did not follow up,” so on those same grounds, does that mean he automatically did?
as respects...
what MM saw, the GJ Presentment was misleading.
"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." - Churchill
by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 9, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, he said you're full of crap like he meant it.
With an argument that sound, how can any of us expect to win?
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
No one...
is going to win.
"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." - Churchill
by Esteban d' Amur on Feb 9, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'll copy from BWI
since I’m growing short on time.
From “PSUJAG”
The GJ report was not inaccurate and MM did not lie under oath. The report reflects the inferences that the GJ drew from his testimony. Assuming MM’s testimony at the preliminary hearing matched his GJ testimony, the inferences made in the GJ report were fair ones. It is fair to infer anal sodomy from a naked man standing behind a naked kid up against a shower wall, skin on skin, after hearing the rhythmic slapping skin-slapping sound associated with intercourse. It is a fair inference because MM himself made the inference — he said he believed that’s what was going on, although he never stated that he saw anal intercourse. The GJ report reflects what the ordinary citizens who served on the GJ took from the testimony. That is not to say that the GJ report reflects the only inferences or conclusions which could be reached by the testimony. However, the standard of proof for indictment is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Tell me,
did you ever slap your foot in the shower, pretending to be Mick Jagger? How does that sound differ from “rhythmic slapping associated with intercourse”?
"Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
"If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions."
No
The GJ presentment is written by the prosecutor.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby
by nps on Feb 9, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Follow-up
http://bwi.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=36&tid=152939758&mid=152939758&sid=890&style=2
The presentment is what the AG thinks she can prove, and McQueary’s prelim testimony can lead a reasonable person to infer that anal intercourse was in fact what he saw.
Why don’t you paste some of the more damning quotes from Mike’s prelim testimony, like the ones where he is sure of what he witnessed or the one where he states Joe was slumped over his chair when Mike told him what he saw.
Although I have no doubt that the prosecutor either wrote the report for them or assisted in writing the report, the report is not technically the words of the prosecutor. The GJ, which is made up of ordinary citizens like you and me, had to agree to it. That is what they took from the testimony, and, no matter how many times you say it, WE DO NOT KNOW that its not accurate. It was a fair inference for them to make, and they made it. I agree with you that it won’t hold up in trial — there are far too many holes in it to withstand the reasonable doubt standard. That’s not the standard that they were working off of, though. The prosecutors are the ones who have to go in to court to prove it and who will look bad when they can’t, so don’t blame the prosecutors for the contents of the report when the John Q. Public GJ members agreed to it.
Also, thank you for very succinctly proving my point.
I made the assertion that I am amazed by people’s reaction to the presentment being contradicted. I didn’t even need to state a contradiction for your to respond with:
That’s because you’re full of crap
You then claim that the GJ presentment has not been contradicted, even though it has by actual testimony. The grand jury presentment says the graduate assistant witnessed Sandusky having intercourse with a child. MM’s actual testimony in the preliminary hearing was that he did not witness any sexual acts. That is a direct contradiction. And your reaction to that contradiction:
That’s because you’re full of crap
I think that proves my point that people default back to information contained in the presentment when testimony contradicts it.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Most of us
have probably, or still are, wringing our hands over the frustration of “just not being able to make people see” it from our viewpoint, or even from a moderate veiwpoint. The itcan be any element of this thing that has angered, embarassed, tarnished, soured etc any part of the university, including us personally. So from that standpoint leeharvey I’m all over what you’re saying. Whenever there is authority without responsibility bad things can follow, and in this case we have three separate entities, the MSM, the BOT, and every turd with an opinion hiding in keyboard defilade, exercising some kind of authority or power without a shred of responsibility for their words or actions. Joe likely recognized the futility of a direct conflict with that triparte of unreason and as a result he held the moral high ground among them till his end. Of those three entities the only one we MAY be able to positively influence for the future of Old State is university governance, and we’ll just have to see how that plays out.
In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them
by PSUMarine78 on Feb 8, 2012 2:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I have a new book on my desk that suggests a promising lens with which to view all of this shit.
It is called God’s Jury: The Inquisition and the Making of the Modern World by Cullen Murphy, an editor at large for Vanity Fair. Beyond developing a history, It appears that he will argue that the “spirit” of the Inquisition is still with us and manifests itself in all sorts of contemporary witch hunt episodes.
I can’t wait (me and Bart Scott) to start on it. And I will once I finish this turgid and tortuous tome supposedly developing a pragmatist theory of reference, which also sits on my desk and mocks me even as I type.
"I think what the university did to him was grossly wrong" -- Mike Ditka
Sounds really interesting
Please share once you’ve completed the book
Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, We Are - Tennyson
I have seen that on the shelf and thought about picking it up.
I might just have to now, and put it in the to read line.
Puberty
Makes me fall in love sexually
Larry Appleton
Is the Perfect reason not
To talk to Strangers
So what's the over/under on when this jackass causes yet another shut-down thread?
11 am? Noon?
It’s a shame, because there were some nice and thoughtful posts and responses in the beginning of this thread. This is reeeeally turning me off to BSD right now.
by TheWrathofQBEagles on Feb 9, 2012 10:17 AM EST reply actions
I'm hoping his overly hostile approach gets him banned or keeps us in check.
I find it a lot harder to suppress the urge to say nasty things when it grows throughout a comment thread. It’s much easier to control when he starts out with “the gloves are off”.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Oh come on...
Starting out with ‘okay the gloves are off’ just makes it that much easier for me to laugh at him.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
by leeharvey418 on Feb 9, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That scored high marks on the unintentional comedy scale
"In every life there have to be some shadows. Look at me. My life has been filled with sunshine. A beautiful and caring wife. Five healthy children. I got to do what I loved. How many people are that lucky?" THE Joseph Vincent Paterno.
by jman07 on Feb 9, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
And that makes it that much harder for him to agitate me.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Remember when BSD expertly handled trolls?
C’mon people, we had a system. It was simple, it was beautiful. If you can’t type something funny or erroneous, just don’t type anything at all. Just stick to the plan and I promise this will all stop.
Anyway, the flashlights eat our human power grids, our souls if you will. So i destroyed them, and if a few precious panties were burnt or soiled in the reckoning then so be it
I think it is more fun to thread jake
Like the other day with our lengthy discussion of breakfast meats and their merits.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
Sorry I missed that one.
I would have had some fine things to say about scrapple.
Unrepentant Joe Paterno Apologist®
Just in case you haven't read it.
Here’s the link to breakfast meats discussion.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Mmm Breakfast meat!
Losing a game is heartbreaking. Losing your sense of excellence or worth is a tragedy.
Shake that money maker!
"If there’s a villain in this tragedy. It lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno’s response to it," ~ Phil Knight
Is that bunny over 18?
If not, I might have to protest.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose - Janis Joplin
I like to believe that an individual's position on this subject...
reflects something about themselves. So many people take the position that Joe HAD TO KNOW. Because they “feel” like they have some insight into Joe’s psyche. In fact, that psyche giving them feelings is their own.
Based on the facts we know of Joe’s life, we must logically conclude that he would have continued to act with honor…as he had in all other aspects of his life.
However, when we look at it from the outside, we want to project villainy because we need someone to hate. Let’s face it, if this were Tressel or Oscar Meyer or Bielema, we would be burning him in effigy…because they have done things that are less than honorable.
But I challenge anyone to provide me with a single, factual example of Joe being less than honest…
So, when you throw shit on Joe, look in the mirror. The flaws you project on him are probably your own.
Losing a game is heartbreaking. Losing your sense of excellence or worth is a tragedy.
by 87Townie on Feb 9, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I'm going to make some cheesesteaks tonight.
I know you all are jealous.
Those cheesesteaks better be using sliced ribeye.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm jealous.
Cheese preference?
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Whiz
Gotta go whiz.. Or my second favorite, provolone and pizza sauce.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Absolutely.
Sliced ribeye, whiz and a fresh roll and you’re golden. I’ve become a fan of pepper relish lately, however if I haven’t had a cheesesteak in awhile, I like it to just be the basics.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
You know I need to pick up rolls, maybe I will get some cheez whiz
we were going to do mozzerella because we had some left over, but I prefer sharp provolone.
Every once and a while...
First of all, I use Steak-Ums, fuck that fancy shit, I keep in the back of the freezer, sometimes for months. But if I know a night of drinking is coming up, I’ll pick up some rolls.
12 inch cast iron skillet, one set of whiz without, one whiz with, and you get to have sex with whom ever you want. Almost as good as Chocolate Martinis.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Man, I thought I loved cheesesteaks.
You clearly love your cheesesteaks. My hat is off to you sir.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
You should hear my opinions on Tacos.
I treat bar food like haute cuisine.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
What is your opinion on bar pizza?
Also, mini tacos?
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Bar Pizza almost always sucks.
My Mother totally ripped off my grilled pizza reciepe and calls it her own now. And WTF is a mini taco?
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
There's this one bar here,
that has really good pizza, but they’re from Pittsburgh, so they learned how to make it the right way somewhere up there.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things." Joseph Vincent Paterno 1926-2012
Vincent's Pizza Park.
Q: What’s the secret to your Pizza?
A: We don’t clean the oven.
Q: Ever?
A: Never.
Q: Seriously?
A: Yep.
They have it a Champs though, and it’s awesome.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
You're better off not knowing what a mini taco is.
You sir have exquisite taste in bar food.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Funny Ex-Wife story
We lived in Bethel Park, she had friends that lived in Murrysville. They are about 25 miles apart, but there is no sequence of events that leads you to getting from one place to the other in less than an hour and ten minutes.
We had kids that are about the same age, but they’re young. DJ is maybe 11 months old at the time, and they want us to go there for a birth day party. I tell my Wife in no uncertain terms that I am not going. She asks why, my answer because it’s going to suck. All of it, and it will be brutal. Long drive, shitty traffic worse beer, followed by another long drive with shitty traffic. She’s going anyway, whatever.
Really nice day. Sunny, warm. Plan…Case of beer, Pirates on the radio, we’re gonna make some tacos. But I’m not fucking around at this point, charcoal? Piss on it, logs. It took 90 minutes to get the fire right. Boneless chicken? My ass. Thighs, cooked indirectly for like 30 minutes, and then simmered in a tomatillo sauce that I made from scratch for another hour. Then seared over the open fire, with a freshly prepared taco sauce fashioned from the marinade garnished with Mexican Fresh cheese and cilantro.
Works of fucking art.
Wife gets home, she pissed. I ask her how the party was. She says “it sucked”. I say “I told you so, have a taco”. She tells me my Taco sucked. Then I got pissed;
“I don’t care if you pissed at me because your friends party sucked, that’s fine, but you leave these Tacos out of it. The Tacos are good, and your just being a bitch because you did something stupid that I told you not to do”.
Big fight that one. But, whenever I make Tacos, Chili, Chicken Soup or Spaghetti and Meatballs, I always make a little extra and send it home with the boy. I also I always get my Pyrex back.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
by jesse. on Feb 9, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tacos and cheesesteaks
cast iron skillets. Doesn’t get any better than that.
I have nothing against steak-ums, but this farm we get meat from
has some good stuff. So I figured I woudl try it. But steak ums are just fine.
You're an elitist.
You are also part of the rebel alliance and a traitor.
Take him away!
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Does it change your opinion
if I admit the sweet potato fries are frozen?
Is there any chance your home planet isn't Earth?
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
Well my Dad
was a product of a closed adoption……so……..
provolone
Whiz? Whiz? Thats not even a real cheese
Whittle your whiskey around like blazes, t'underin' Jaysus, do ye think I'm dead?
What's you point.
Pam Anderson’s boobs aren’t real either. They are still an absolute good.
...may we compete with fierce intensity, with the gifts that we have been given...
gotta be provolone
and cooked on a greasy grill
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby
by nps on Feb 9, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hey look
Another good post that M1EK is going to have locked down because he’s determined to change the opinions of those that aren’t going to change here. I know you can’t ban someone for having a counter opinion, but can you ban someone for continually disrupting threads with opinions that he is clearly the only one in the community has? How many threads have been closed now because of massive arguments he is essentially the root of? When can he just be banned? I’m sure there are tons of blogs that would love to have him, but the way things constantly devolve around here when he posts, can we at some point just admit this isn’t one of them and boot him?
I am Sandy's bitch
We Are Because You Were
@WadePSU
by Rogue Nine on Feb 9, 2012 3:07 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Yay, a warning!
I promise to never give any worse than I’m getting. Usually quite a bit less.
Your pal,
M1EK
M1EK, I have an honest question for you.
Based on what we know of regarding the 2002 incident, do you really think there was enough information available to find Sandusky guilty in a court of law of the allegations?
I want to know because if you truly think there was, then it makes your perspective valid in the bigger picture. However if there wasn’t, then following up and all the other stuff you are outraged about would have been useless.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. I do think that.
A credible eyewitness means a lot. And as I’ve pointed out many times, the GJ didn’t hear the presentment when they issued charges. The presentment summarized what they heard, and they agreed to it.
Well, this helps me understand your perspective.
I’m not saying I agree with it because sans a victim or a direct witness, it’s just all going to be circumstantial, but at least I understand your line of thinking.
It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.
by Succss With Honor Always on Feb 9, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I have never seen anyone on this site
Reply to anyone with “fuck you.” I strongly disagree with roughly 85% of what you say, and still wouldn’t do that. You’ve been on the ‘net since the ’93? Maybe you need to go back to Usenet, I’m sure they miss you. Seriously, you act like you’re 15. I’d rather “outsiders” think we’re pro child abuse than you. Truly.
Deus nobiscum, quis contra?
I don't know, but they did it. They've done it before and they did it tonight and they'll do it again and when they do it-seems that only children weep.
by chocochuck02 on Feb 9, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
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