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Penn State - Notre Dame: A History of the Rivalry

Lately I think we've all noticed a little animosity between fans of the great institutions of Notre Dame and our beloved Dear Ol' State. I've been thinking about this lately trying to come up with an explanation why two fan bases with no geographic ties having only met on the field 18 (soon to be 19) times in over 120 years could possibly detest each other so much. I took a look back at the history between the two schools and put together a timeline of events you may find interesting. (Or you may not, in which case I would suggest you just come back tomorrow to see if I have my Michigan State preview ready.)

Pre-1970

The two schools met four times from 1913-1928. Penn State was still a relatively infant program. Notre Dame was a already national powerhouse with five National Championships in that span. Penn State was completely overmatched and held an 0-3-1 record against the Fighting Irish. It would be over four decades later before the schools would meet again. Notre Dame would win five national championships in that time while Penn State struggled to build a program and gain national recognition.

1973

Joe Paterno leads the Penn State Nittany Lions to a perfect 12-0 record. It is his third perfect season in six years, yet for the third time Penn State is denied the National Championship as they finish #5 in the polls. The title instead goes to an 11-0 Notre Dame squad. It is the seventeenth National Championship for the Irish (not all consensus).

1976

The Nittany Lions and Fighting Irish would get a chance to settle the 1973 score on the field as the two teams met in the 1976 Gator Bowl. Joe Paterno's 7-4 team was outmatched by Dan Bevine's 8-3 Irish, and Notre Dame cruised to an easy 20-9 win. It was only Joe Paterno's third loss in nine career bowl games.

1981

The two storied programs would play the first of a series of games that would span the next 12 years. In that time the two schools would combine for three National Championships. In nine of those games at least one of the two teams was ranked, and in five contests, including the last four, both teams were ranked in the top 25. Penn State won the first game in State College 24-21

1982

Penn State took their #5 rank and 8-1 record to meet the #13 Irish. Notre Dame had a 6-1-1 record and was coming off a fresh upset of #1 ranked Pitt the week before. A win over Penn State would put the Irish in a position to get back in the race for the National Championship.

When the Penn State team plane landed in Indiana they were met by a sea of reporters. It was the first trip by Joe Paterno led team into South Bend. Paterno was peppered with questions about how he was going to keep his players focused on the game when surrounded by all the Notre Dame mystique and tradition. The put-off Paterno loaded his team on the bus and took them straight to the hotel. Once there he assembled them and gave them a speech that included this line which has lived on in Penn State lore ever since:

You're going to hear all about Notre Dame tradition, and you know what? It doesn't mean a thing unless Knute Rockne leaps out of the ground and tackles you. Their field has got a hundred yards and two goalposts just like every other football field.

Penn State went on to escape Notre Dame with a 24-14 win. The win propelled the Nittany Lions to #2 in the polls. They then went on to beat #5 ranked Pitt and the #1 ranked Georgia Bulldogs in the Sugar Bowl to give Joe Paterno his first National Championship. The Irish would go on to lose to Air Force and USC to end their season on a disappointing three game losing streak and not make a bowl game.

1983

Both teams were having relatively disappointing seasons and were unranked. The defending National Champion Nittany Lions appeared to be turning things around after losing their first three games of the season and rallying to beat #3 Alabama and #5 West Virginia. Penn State rallied on a last minute touchdown drive to down the Irish 34-30 in Happy Valley.

1984

Both teams were once again unranked, a rarity since the series began in 1981. Notre Dame routed Penn State in convincing 44-7 fashion.

1985

Joe Paterno returned the favor from 1984 as #1 ranked Penn State destroyed the Irish 36-6. Penn State would go on to play in the National Championship game where they would lose to the Oklahoma Sooners in the Orange Bowl. After several disappointing years, Notre Dame coach Gerry Faust would resign at the end of the season to spare himself the embarrassment of being fired.

1986

The Penn State program is at an all time high. They won the championship in '82 and played in the National Championship game in 1985. In 1986 they were on their way to beating Miami in the Fiesta Bowl and winning their second national championship.

The Nittany Lions won the game against Notre Dame that year 24-19. It was Penn State's fifth win in six games over the Irish since the series was renewed in 1981. Notre Dame was at a low point in their program. They had suffered through several mediocre years since their 9-2-1 record in 1980. But Lou Holtz was in his first year in South Bend, and things were about to change.

1987

Lou Holtz had the Irish headed in the right direction in only his second season. Penn State was a modest 7-3 and unranked as Notre Dame came to Happy Valley for the regular season finale. Notre Dame was riding high with an 8-1 record and a #7 ranking. With the defending National Champion Nittany Lions having an off year and #1 ranked Miami on the schedule the following week, the Irish were in prime position to put themselves in the National Championship game.

Notre Dame scored a touchdown in the final minute against Penn State to pull within one point. Figuring an extra point and tie wouldn't be good enough in the eyes of the voters, Holtz decided to go for the two point conversion. Heisman Trophy candidate Tony Rice was stuffed short of the line and Penn State held on for the 21-20 victory. Notre Dame would go on to lose to Miami and Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl to finish with a disappointing 8-4 record.

1988

The Irish came into the annual contest undefeated and ranked #1 in the country. The Irish defense dominated as Penn State fell by a 21-3 score. The Irish would go on to win their last National Championship.

1989

Notre Dame was riding high as for the second year in a row the defending National Champions brought a 22 game winning streak and #1 ranking into the game. Joe Paterno had his Lions climbing back after missing from the national scene for a few years. They came into the game with a 6-2-1 record and a #17 ranking with their two losses against ranked teams by very close margins. But Lou Holtz and the Irish were once again too good for the Lions as they fell for the second consecutive year. It was the first time Notre Dame had beaten Penn State in consecutive games since 1928.

1990

Roles had completely reversed. While Penn State dominated the early part of the 1980's, the Fighting Irish were now in the midst of a small dynasty of their own. For the third consecutive year Notre Dame came into the game with a #1 ranking. Penn State had started the year with losses to Texas and USC, but were coming on strong with seven consecutive wins. Still, #18 ranked Penn State was a heavy underdog going into South Bend.

The Irish took an early 14-0 lead, but Rocket Ismail left the game with an injury and Notre Dame's offense struggled in the second half. With the score tied, Rick Mirer threw an interception in the final minute of the game. Craig Fayak kicked the game winning field goal as the clock ticked down and Penn State escaped South Bend with a 24-21 win. Like 1982 and 1987, the Irish's dreams of winning the National Championship were dashed once again by Joe Paterno.

1991

Both teams came in with identical 8-2 records. Penn State was ranked #8 while the Irish were ranked #12. Notre Dame was shell shocked by a loss to Tennessee the week before, and Joe Paterno's boys took them behind the wood shed for a 35-13 thumping. This would be Paterno's last win against Notre Dame.

1992

Notre Dame was having a good year with a 7-1-1 record while Penn State was struggling at 6-3 after a 5-0 start. With light snow falling all afternoon both offenses had trouble putting points on the board. Penn State took a 16-9 lead late in the fourth quarter and it looked like Paterno might once again have Holtz's number. Rick Mirer led the Irish down the field and found fullback Jerome Bettis open in the flat for a touchdown. Trailing by one Lou Holtz decided to go for the two point conversion just as he had in 1987. This time Mirer found Reggie Brooks open in the back of the endzone and Notre Dame pulled out the one point win in the game that would forever be known in South Bend as "The Snow Bowl". (ed. note - Penn State fans prefer to call it a "light dusting." Our Snow Bowl was in Happy Valley on November 18, 1995 against Michigan. Two feet, bitches! Top that!)

1993

Penn State accepts an invitation to join the Big Ten Conference. The two storied programs that shared a bond as two of the last independent teams in college football parted ways. They would not play again for 14 years.

Penn State is also forced to end its century old series with in-state rival Pitt. This leaves Penn State without a natural rival and forces them to look elsewhere. Ohio State and Michigan absorb some of that, but some of it falls on Notre Dame when the series is renewed in 2006.

1994 - 2005

Penn State went on to do well in their first few years in the Big Ten. They went undefeated in 1994 and held #1 rankings for part of the time in the 1997 and 1999 seasons. Then they fell from grace in 2000 through 2004.

Notre Dame had a decent year in 1993 going 11-1, but then they struggled for the next decade with a brief bit of success in 2002 under Ty Willingham.

In 2005 both teams enjoyed success with Penn State winning the Big Ten title and Notre Dame earning a BCS bowl birth under first year coach Charlie Weis. The success in 2005 would lead to heightened expectations for both teams going into 2006.

2006

The two storied programs meet again for the first time since 1992 and it's just like old times. Charlie Weis' senior laden group is too much for the Nittany Lions in a rebuilding year. Several Penn State turnovers lead to an Irish route. Penn State scores a few late touchdowns to make the 41-17 score seem closer than it really is.

With five minutes to go in the third quarter Notre Dame holds a comfortable 27-3 lead on a day when the Penn State offense is completely out of rhythm. Weis calls for a fake punt that results in a 43 yard gain to the PSU five yard line. Penn State holds the line on the next three plays, but Weis elects to go for the touchdown on fourth down rather than kick a field goal. When Travis Thomas crosses the goal line Weis is seen on television pumping his fist.

Then in the fourth quarter with Notre Dame ahead 34-3, Weis again elects to go for a first down rather than kick a field goal from the Penn State 25 yard line. Notre Dame goes on to score another touchdown at the end of the drive. Weis' actions leave a foul taste in the mouths of Penn State fans who feel like Weis was running up the score.

What Have We Learned Today?

I think there is a lot of reasons we can glean from this to explain the animosity between the two fan bases.

*    Several nail biting finishes that came down to the last minute sending one side into euphoria and the other into despair.
*    A few notable routes that rubbed salt in the wound of the losing fan base.
*    Two schools proud of their tradition that feel insulted when the other school's tradition is lauded without recognition for their own.
*    Two schools that featured two famous coaches during much of the 12 year span in the 80's and 90's drawing added attention from the media.
*    Two schools experiencing long periods of success at the expense of the other breeding arrogance in some generations of fans and jealousy in others.
*    Penn State ending Notre Dame's national championship hopes three times (1982, 1987 and 1990)
*    A rivalry getting extremely heated at the tail end of the 1980's before Penn State had to abruptly end it to join the Big Ten.
*    The end of Penn State's rivalry with Pitt leaves Penn State fans searching for a new rival. Ohio State and Michigan fill the void somewhat but not completely. Still searching, Penn State fans turn toward Notre Dame when the rivalry is renewed in 2006.
*    Two schools that have experienced long periods of disappointment that suddenly find themselves in a period of recent success. Struggling to determine where they fit in the college football landscape they find themselves hitting head on in 2006 and 2007.

Now I think it's a fair assumption to say that Penn State fans are a little more obsessed than Notre Dame fans when it comes to this rivalry. There are a few reasons for this.

*    Notre Dame fans consider USC and even Michigan as bigger rivals than Penn State.
*    North Eastern Pennsylvania has a high population of Catholics. Growing up in high school I was fortunate to attend just about every single football game and we played a lot of teams from NE PA. I can tell you first hand that probably two out of every three high schools in NE PA have adopted the Notre Dame fight song as their own. Notre Dame is huge up there. They are just as big as Penn State if not bigger. This mix of fan bases living in close proximity gives the feel of a natural in-state rivalry.
*    Penn State has a history of being snubbed by the media. Four times Joe Paterno has led an undefeated team that was not awarded the National Championship ('68, '69, '73, and '94). Notre Dame is unquestionably a media darling so it's only natural Penn State's hatred of the media would be directed toward the one the writers adore.

Add all of this up and it's easy to see why these two schools share a little animosity between each other. It's a great rivalry between two classy programs with very rich and very proud traditions. It's a shame they can't find a way to continue the series every year beyond 2007.

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just nd&psu?
being a michigan fan, i have (not intentionally) made enemies with MSU fans, ND fans, Purdue, and not to mention the scores of tOSU fans.  I think that the reason ND has so many rivalries is because they are, in fact, notre dame.  i go to school at the university of toledo, and not only do we hate BGSU, but also Miami, just because they are smug asshole catholic preppies (not to offend anyone here, the only catholic kid i knew  in high was indeed an asshole, and goes to the shit hole in oxford).  i know i hate ND not because i love michigan, but anyone i have ever met that was a ND fan was a smug asshole.  cant wait to see your team this year, keep up the good work!

by djohnson2112 on Jul 11, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

stupid notre dame
The nd wins are awesome - especially '90 - but it's the losses that really evoke (the bile in my stomach) emotion...

Whenever I talk to older men, which is often, about Penn State football, that Gator Bowl typically marks the day they fell off of the Paterno bandwagon.

I remember that '84 game - it stung - pitt beat up on the Lions that year as well - it was not fun.

but that loss in '92 is the one that, for me, is the worst -

by PSUgirl on Jul 11, 2007 4:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'92 game
I remember after the touchdown the ND fans charged onto the field. NOTRE DAME WAS STILL TRAILING BY A POINT! The refs should have called them for unsportsmanlike counduct or something like that. For anybody interested there's a clip on youtube of it. I don't feel like posting it.

by MarkoMancuso on Jul 11, 2007 4:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Penalty
If I recall, they did receive an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and it was either assess on the two point conversion attempt or the ensuing kickoff.

by stonewall435 on Jul 11, 2007 5:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Penalty
I don't remember that well. Maybe your right, I don't know. I can't find the clip either.

by MarkoMancuso on Jul 11, 2007 5:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great Stuff
Nothing quite like good old fashion hatred. Oh well. Sometimes its hard to separate the people and the schools from the jackasses that annoy us. It's hard to see the cool people behind the schmuck who tells you to go f yourself.

However, as a Michigan fan, I've experienced both spit and kindness from fans of every institution we've played. And yes, that includes OSU. For every drunk asshole in South Bend I've met two solid Irish fans who've offered me a beer or engaged me in good conversation.

It's easy to look skin deep at a fan base. We've all done it. But it'a a lot more fun to look a little deeper to get to know a passionate fan base who cares as much about their team as you do about yours.

It's amazing how much more fun that makes watching or going to a game.

Maize n Brew
Because Football Is Better With Beer

by Maize n Brew Dave on Jul 11, 2007 7:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fanning the flames...
The ridiculous "God is on our Side" ignorance/arrogance of Notre Dame fans in general has been insufferable through the years and, yes, that 1973 bowl game is where it really got started (Thank you MIke for your fine summary).  The game and the score were close, as I recall, but the media fawning over Notre Dame was just too much.

So to add to the list, Notre Dame arrogance should rank right up there.  They are like the Yankees.  You either love them or hate them.  As fo rme, I hope neither the Yankees nor the Irish ever win another game.  Even if it would catapault us to number one, I just couldm't bring myself to cheer for Notre Dame.  (Hey, I also tried routing for Miami in '94 against Nebraska but in the end I just couldn't do it.)

Number two would be the fact that Notre Dame should be in the Big Ten but refuse to join.  They are afraid of us.  That's right.  You heard me.  AFRAID of us!!!  Their NBC television deal is a pitiful excuse.  I propose that all Big Ten teams boycott playing them until they join!  They would have to fill the rest of their schedule with more military academy games.  Maybe the Citadel and VMI?

Number three would be the television deal.  Who do they think they are anyway?  Has there even been one good Notre Dame game on NBC since signing this deal?  Perhaps that squeaker against Nebraska, but other than that, I can't think of any.  How does such a mediocre, over-rated school get such a television deal?  I'd love to see those TV ratings..

Number four would be the sheer cheesiness of "Touchdown Jesus."  FYI -- He's throwing up his hands in disgust.

Number five would be "Rudy, Rudy!"  Okay, okay, I'll concede that "Something for Joey" ranks higher on the puke-o-meter, so let's call that one a draw.

Oh, I could go on, but this is getting long.  No team in the Big Ten evokes more out of me than Notre Dame nor will they ever.  Notre Dame is, in the words of Seinfeld's Neuman, a "vile and useless pustule."

In case you have not seen these before, here are some Notre Dame jokes (although the school is its own joke)...

Q: How do you make Notre Dame cookies?
A: Throw the Irish in a bowl & beat them for three hours.

Q: What's the difference between Notre Dame and Cheerios?
A: Cheerios BELONG in a bowl.

Q: What do the Fighting Irish and Marijuana have in common?
A: They both get smoked in a bowl.

Q: What's the difference between the Notre Dame football team and a dollar bill?
A: You can still get four quarters out of a dollar bill.

Q: What do a call a 250 lb. Notre Dame Cheerleader?
A: Anorexic.

Q: What do Notre Dame fans and a beer bottle have in common?
A: They're both empty from the neck up.

Q: How do you get a Notre Dame Grad off your front porch?
A: Pay him for the pizza.

Q: What is a Notre Dame Grad's favorite line?
A: Do you want fries with that?

Q: Why did O.J. hide in South Bend after killing his wife?
A: No one would ever think of looking for a football player there.

Q: Where do you go in Indiana when there's a chance of a tornado?
A: Notre Dame Stadium. I hear they never get a touchdown there!

Q: Why are they planning to resurface Notre Dame Stadium with cardboard?
A: Because the Irish always play better on paper.

Q: What do you get when you cross a pig with a Notre Dame graduate?
A: Nothing. There are some things a pig just won't do.

by JC on Jul 11, 2007 7:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great work, Mike...
In summing up the rivalry.  I'll post an official reply and link by the end of the week, but I couldn't let a couple of these points go.
  1. Why would Notre Dame join the Big Ten?  Right now, despite our AD's best efforts to muck up future schedules, we get amazing games every year as an independent.  In the last five years, we've played Florida State, Rocky Top, Michigan, Southern Cal, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Penn State, Maryland, Pitt, BC, BYU, Michigan State, Purdue, Navy and Stanford.  Maybe if Penn State were still an independent, it's non-Irish non-conference would include teams a tad better than FIU, Temple and Buffalo.
  2. Notre Dame games are consistently rated rather high, and just in my three years at Notre Dame these have been highly-entertaining, close games:
04 - Michigan, Pitt, BC, Stanford (not entertaining, but close)

05 - Michigan State, Southern Cal (remember that one?  One of the greatest regular season games of all time?)

06 - Just UCLA, really, although I'm sure the Michigan and Penn State games were both very entertaining to those fans wearing Maize and Blue.

And here's a link discussing ratings, which did take a dip last year following a big jump in 2005.  http://bluegraysky.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html#116538271877301206

Also, your jokes are very clever.  I didn't read them, but I forwarded them to my nine-year old cousin and he had a blast.

http://www.rakesofmallow.com

by CW on Jul 11, 2007 11:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so it was you....
all these years I've been blaming Warren Sapp (and the rest of the um d-line) for running around in the first half, dancing and carrying on - and then sucking wind in the 4th quarter.

by PSUgirl on Jul 12, 2007 8:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice summary.... on ND not kicking the field goals
As a PA resident and die hard Notre Dame fan, this rivalry has a special place in my heart.  Growing up a ND fan amongst all the PSU fans was tough considering the success, or lack there of, ND has had since Holtz left, but I love seeing these two schools playing.

Anyway, when Weis faked the punt and went for it on first down, ND was only up 3 scores and if you saw ND's defense last year you know that they were capable of giving up a lot of points in a hurry.  As for the second time, you have to realize that ND's kicking game was dreadful last year.  A 40+ yard field goal was a major surprised if/when it occurred.

Anyway, nice summary, I run a ND site (uhnd.com) and will post a link to this on our blog later tonight.

by FrankUHND on Jul 11, 2007 8:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Running up the score
Anyway, when Weis faked the punt and went for it on first down, ND was only up 3 scores and if you saw ND's defense last year you know that they were capable of giving up a lot of points in a hurry.

Not on that day against that Penn State offense. I think we all know that.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 11, 2007 8:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True, but if you were at the game...
you would have seen some Penn State WR's running wide open downfield, but Morelli was just missing them.  I was sitting in the end zone where he fumbled which Tommy Zbikowski recovered and returned and up until that point, I was honestly a little uneasy.

PSU had some WR's running wide open downfield and Morelli either under threw them or just missed them.  As much as I enjoyed that game, I realized that if Morelli would have hit on one or two of those early on it could have been a much different game.

by FrankUHND on Jul 11, 2007 9:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ND and the Big Ten
It'll never happen, and it has nothing to do with football or Notre Dame athletics.

The Big Ten is also an academic conference where monies and research are shared between schools for the purpose of a greater good.

This includes stem-cell research.

No Catholic school is going to join an academic consortium that includes stem-cell research. It just won't happen. Ever.

by stonewall435 on Jul 11, 2007 8:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Recycling
I posted this a while back.  Personally, I think it's everything you need to know when comparing these two football programs.

Since Joe Paterno has been head coach at PSU (spanning the entire modern era, and even a little before):

PSU has had 19 10+ win seasons. Notre Dame has had 11.

Penn State has won 16 January Bowl Games.  Notre Dame has won 9.

Penn State has had 5 undefeated, untied seasons resulting in 1 National Championship, and 1 other National Championship besides, for a total of 2.  Notre Dame has had 2 undefeated, untied seasons, both resulting in National Championships.

Each program has produced 1 Heisman Trophy Winner.

Penn State has only had 6 .500 or lower seasons.  Notre Dame has had 7.

Penn State's record against Notre Dame in that time: 8 wins, 6 losses, 0 ties.

by ckmneon on Jul 12, 2007 6:47 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yawn......
Among other things, I think what really rankles the Lion faithful is that the typical Notre Dame fan is largely indifferent to Penn State.  Frankly, the Irish fans are more interested, and would rather play teams like USC, Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, and Miami.  Penn State is no doubt important, but it is just another game on the schedule for the Irish; whereas for the Lions, this is arguably THE GAME of the year.  (As least it seems to be based on the attention you give to ND on this blog as compared to tOSU and Michigan.)
Mike made the point above, and I will reiterate - Penn State lacks a rival since dropping the University of Pittsburgh.  Who is PSUs top rival?  Nobody.  Ohio State and Michigan consider Penn State their #2 rival at best.  For Notre Dame, Penn State is likely among their Top 10 list of rivals, but no where close to #1 either.
So, go ahead and talk and whine about the University of Notre Dame all you want.  Not many are listening.  It's tough to get a rivalry going when you are being largely ignored.

by Jerry on Jul 12, 2007 7:06 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indifferent, huh?
I would invite you to watch my site meter today. And watch all the hits coming in from ND blogs and message boards. Then at the end of the day tell me Notre Dame fans don't care about Penn State.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 12, 2007 8:42 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You don't get it, do you?
Mike--

I will stand by my opinion that the average Notre Dame fan isn't passionate about playing Penn State to the extent that Penn State fans are zealous about playing Notre Dame.  I'm not saying that your blog won't generate a ton of interest - it definitely will.  Imagine that - you in essence are doing what NBC has done.  You have recognized that immense following of the Fightin' Irish and therefore you have given us publicity.  Remember that the next time you are critical of the "media darlings".

In short, what I am trying to convey is that this game means a ton more to the Penn State faithful than it does to the overall Notre Dame faithful.  For example, I guarantee that outside Atlanta that Georgia Tech fans and ND fans are dishing it out already.  And no doubt for Georgia Tech the ND game is one of their biggest this year.

Bottom line - other teams (and their fans) get fired up to play Notre Dame.  ND can possibly reciprocate that intensity each week.

Thanks again, however, for mentioning us in your blog.  As any Marketer will tell you, any publicity is good publicity.

by Jerry on Jul 12, 2007 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks again, Jerry
I said in the post that Penn State fans feel more passionate about the rivalry than Notre Dame fans do. So we agree on that. But given the fact that Notre Dame fans are willing to spend $3000 for tickets on Ebay shows this is just a bit bigger than your average game. I doubt there will be the demand for GA Tech tickets that you saw for PSU in South Bend last year.

And for the record, even Penn State fans don't consider Notre Dame our biggest game this year. It's at best our fourth biggest game. Probably our third biggest at home. So I guess it goes both ways in that regard. But you can't deny that these two schools share a special bond with each other.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 12, 2007 1:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doesn't help that we haven't played regularly...
Mike is right about the rank here in terms of importance. I'd put the UM, tOSU and Wisky games in front of ND in terms of improtance.

However, PSU fans get those games pretty well every year, except when Michigan and Wisky rotate out of the schedule.

If PSU had been able to keep ND on the schedule, I'd imagine the PSU faithful would be less hyped over the games. This excitment has been brewing for both fan bases for some time now.

The games seem to have the same hype that the Nebraska games did a few years back, though with Nebraska that was fueled by the 1994 season.

by stonewall435 on Jul 12, 2007 2:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But...
Remember, the record number of ticket requests for a Notre Dame home game is last year's PSU game, over 66,000 requests.

by underscore on Jul 12, 2007 2:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly underscore
I was going to mention that too. I was with some ND people before last season and they were all talking about the Penn State game (without yet knowing I was a Penn Stater) and how badly they wanted tickets, yada yada yada. Most ND fans understand the importance of Penn State. No, they're not a rival, and they are at best the 4th most important game we play this year. But, it's still a big game. For BOTH programs.

by speedomike02 on Jul 12, 2007 6:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ND - PSU - hatred?
Two things.  First - My wife is from South Bend and I am from State College.  Many of her relatives are ND graduates.  I have never received anything but utmost kindness and graciousness regarding PSU from any of them -- even the whomping last year that I sat through in agony.  I also have observed that in general (and there are exceptions to every rule) ND students are polite and gracious to PSU fans -- frankly, far more-so than the average PSU fans I have observed to visitors from other schools (again, there are plenty of exceptions, but unfortunately that is my observation).  Second -as to the television deal and the question "Who do they think they are anyway?"  I think that's jealousy speaking.  I wish Penn State had such a deal and the millions of dollars of income that go with it.  The answer to the question, obviously, is they are the school that NBC is willing to spend the money on.  
 

by nyline on Jul 12, 2007 9:05 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well,
Penn State does get millions of dollars of income - they just have to share it.

by PSUgirl on Jul 12, 2007 10:18 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fabulous work here.
It seems that the whole rivalry really is a Pennsylvania thing, and more specifically, NEPA.  I will say that I personally am looking forward to this game the most this season, even though it may not be the biggest.  I do think that every PSU fan, no matter where they live, feels that there is a sense of pride we need to get back from last year's game, so its circled on everyone's calender.
http://pennstatevsnotredame.blogspot.com/

by nittanynutz on Jul 12, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Domers
I have a unique personal experience. I actually grew up an ND fan and maintained this allegiance through college at PSU. The first college football game I ever watched was the ND '88 cotton bowl, and I fell in love with Tony Rice, Stonebreaker, Holtz et al.

Then,  I moved to Chicago, and met a number of people who went to ND, dated a few girls who went to ND. On the whole, recent graduates of Notre Dame are completely detached from reality. Convinced their school is the greatest on the planet and almost always socially awkward, I have completely renounced my allegiance to ND and have accepted my lord and savior, PSU.

We made a cannonball run to South Bend last year and I watched last years game from Between the Buns (a bar near the stadium). That town sucks, and I hope PSU lays 50 down on the Domers this year.

by nickf819 on Jul 12, 2007 3:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Happy Valley Atmosphere
I will be interested to see how this plays out on gameday. I'm a ND alum and I've never been to Happy Valley for a game but will be going to the ND game this year. I was at the game at Notre Dame last year and everyone seemed to have a good time tailgating and there was plenty of mutual respect. Several Penn State fans mentioned to me how nice everyone had been to them, and then said not to expect the same from PSU fans next year. The increasing vitriol on message boards certainly backs that up, even though commenters on the Internet can tend to be a bit more idiotic than they are in real life.

by Otm Shank on Jul 12, 2007 3:35 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Happy Valley Fans
Well Shank, let me offer an advanced welcome to Happy Valley. I think you'll find for the most part PSU fans are 95% nice people. They will welcome you and be very hospitable. Unfortunately, there will probably be 150,000 people in town that day, so 5% of 150,000 means there will be 7500 A-holes walking around, so your odds of running into one of them is pretty good. Unfortunately we live in a day and age where you're going to have that wherever you go. Hopefully you won't let these people ruin your experience and overall impression of PSU fans.

But if Notre Dame wins, I suggest you sit in the stadium for an hour or so before you leave...just to let things outside the stadium calm down a bit.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 12, 2007 3:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks
Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you as well as maize n brew that all fan bases have both great fans and jerks. It seems like the jerk factor may be amped up a little at the game this year due to a few factors (night game, last year's blowout). I've heard PSU throws a pretty good tailgate, though, and I'm looking forward to that.

by Otm Shank on Jul 12, 2007 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My advice
Some student is going to come on here and rip me for this, but I suggest just staying away from the student section. After the game avoid the road that runs between the stadium and the Bryce Jordan center since the students will be flooding through there on their way back to campus. That's where most of the bad apples congregate. The Alumni are really nice. If you meet an post 30 year-old a-hole, chances are they are just a fan and didn't actually go to Penn State.

Something about this SportsCenter endzone dance and wag my finger in your face generation makes younger people think it's cool to harass nice people who just want to cheer on their team. It's a sickness I wish college football could rid itself of.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 12, 2007 4:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also
I'd suggest staying near the parking lots at the stadium while tailgating. A lot of the out of control frat party type stuff happens on the fields across Park Avenue. I know for the Michigan game last year I was at a crazy tailgate for a little while that was down the hill from the baseball stadium. I wouldn't have wanted to be an opposing fan at that tailgate either. I think the closer you are to the stadium, the more under control things will be. I know we had a great time with OSU fans two years back, but some bad things happened at that game too. A few bad apples can spoil the whole thing.

In fairness to the students, there was a student organization last year (can't remember the name) at the Michigan game that was put together for the sole purpose of making the tailgate/gameday experience better for the opposition. It was inspired by a similar group at Ohio State. As far as I know, there weren't many incidents with Michigan fans, so it's possible that may have had some positive effect. I hope that continues.

Also-you'll notice that the opposing fans that have the biggest problems are the ones who bring it upon themselves. If you're nice to PSU fans, they'll be nice back.

by speedomike02 on Jul 12, 2007 6:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's funny...
..how some of my fellow ND fans like to throw the "you guys care alot more about this game than we do" line at y'all. Well, not me. I was like a little kid waiting for Christmas during the lead-up to last year's game. The margin of victory, and the subsequent girlie-whining from the PSU bloggers how that Mean Fat Charlie Weis ran up the score was priceless. Unfortunately, this year's game will probably be some sort of payback, but I'm still looking forward to it w/the same excitement I reserve for the UM/USC games. I wish we played more often.  
41-17

by Scott on Jul 12, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only way I got to go the the nd game
as a kid was when I sold sodas in the stadium - the nd fans were pretty nice - but the game was always so cold (the WVU fans were the absolute worst, btw).  Generally, if the nd game was at home, then pitt was away - they were (again, generally) the last 2 games of the season and whichever was the home game was the biggest game of the season.

I do hope that Penn State fans are cordial to those nd fans who make the trip (and who are polite themselves) - I grew up at a tailgate where we almost always had guests from the "other team" and were always inviting visiting fans to stop by for a beverage (or two) - that's how I run my tailgate now - I love meeting fans from other schools.

by PSUgirl on Jul 12, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah
As a student I would def. recomend staying away from the student section.  The students will have had a good 10 hours to get drunk and have no Mercy on ND fans...altho last year the Michigan fans brought it on themselves, trying to sneak into the student section and at the tailgates they were trying to steal PSU flags and car magnets and stuff.  Really petty things like that got them a shower of beer.

by CBlack79 on Jul 12, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can learn a lot by reading these blogs...
...such as that Notre Dame won't join the Big Ten because of stem cell research.  And here I thought it was because the Golden Gophers were Lutherans!

CW's comment "if only Penn State were still an independent" stirred my soul and brought a patriotic tear to my eye.  Those were the days!!  Being independent is the only thing I envy Notre Dame for.  Someone please get us out of the Big Ten  (and get the US out of the UN while your at it).  Maybe Jackie Chiles can arrange that divorce.

Reading over Mike's summary of the ND-PSU history reminded me of the only time I ever felt sorry for Notre Dame: when they had Gerry Faust as a coach.  He was pathetically out of his element --living proof of the Peter Principle.  Can the Notre Dame fans reciprocate some sympathy for us now that we have JayPa?  No, he's not head coach, but it's possible.

by JC on Jul 13, 2007 6:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gerry Faust
Yeah, he was Mr. Peter Principle himself, but...I watched his team kick our ass in '84. On my honeymoon, no less. Made me throw up in my mouth a little. That's when I thought the marriage may not work, and it didn't.  ;-)

Worst 3 hours of my life.

by Pete the Streak on Jul 13, 2007 7:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As an ND fan
I'd just like to thank you for the recap of this rivalry. Personally, one of my favorite college football memories came from watching the Snow Bowl in 1992. I got the t-shirt that ND printed up later that year for Christmas, and really wish I still had it.

Anyway, here's hoping that both of our teams are blessed with good seasons, and that this year's match will be another memorable (though hopefully temporary) send-off for the rivalry.

by iceofboston on Jul 13, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks
Thanks for the compliment, iceofboston. You represent your university well.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Jul 13, 2007 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But Why PSU?
Good job on the PSU - ND rivalry summary.  However, your rants leave one obvious question.  Why did PSU give up its independent status?  Only after giving up 107 years of independence (yes ND and PSU both started playing in 1887 with PSU going 2-0) do PSU fans now think they can criticize others for not doing the same?  (Stalin would be proud.)  Were you also arrogant for those 107 years?  But then again, arrogance is what PSU knows best.  It was arrogant of PSU to stop playing Pitt, but continue scheduling MAC schools. It is arrogant for the board at PSU to bully state legislatures for more money then they deserve and still raise tuition rates by double digits each year (as a father who paid the highest State University tuitions in the country I can say this).  It is arrogance that resulted in multi-million dollar road construction projects that are only used 8 weeks out of the year.  But as you no doubt now believe (as did Stalin before you)  - "The labouring [sic] peasants did right to reject the capitalist path and take the path of collective-farm football development."

by PaHome on Jul 13, 2007 4:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh, what?
Arrogance has nothing to do with anything you were talking about.

by PSU Nick on Jul 13, 2007 5:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wooo Wooo Here Comes the Clue Train, Next Stop You
If you understood any of the situations in which you speak of I might have a shred of respect for you. Instead you come marching in here thinking that you are going to tell off a bunch of Penn State fans. It's not like Notre Dame doesn't schedule its share of cupcakes.

And on insulting the institution. Penn State is a state-related institution in the commonwealth of PA. That means that Penn State does get federal funding, but its leadership comes from a board, not from the government. Three others, Temple, Pitt, and Lincoln University. It's not a pure public school like West Chester or Ship.

The money that PSU makes from its football team pays for all of the other sports on campus. Why shouldn't penn state create a great atmosphere for football? It is an important part of the growth of the town of State College also. The amount of tax revenue and profits from football weekends must be enormous.

Did you know that there are 109,000 undergrads in the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (Penn State does not belong). Penn State has a total of 84,000 students throughout PA. I think that they deserve a good chunk of change.

Prove to me that they bully them. Prove to me that it's more than they deserve. I want to know who is getting fat off of the money that Penn State receives.

You will only continue to show your ignorance if you continue to compare Penn State to Stalin.

JoePa is my hero.

by psuphiman80 on Jul 15, 2007 9:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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