We're On The Board

There it is in all it's glory. I never thought I would see the day. Way to take the fun out of an entire year in the Fulmer Cup. Now we can't taunt other schools when their players do stupid things college kids do. Other fans can literally point at the scoreboard now. Oh the shame!
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Doh!
My mom went to Idaho and my brother went to Michigan. Not a proud day for our alma mater's.
by speedomike02 on Apr 30, 2007 6:46 PM EDT 0 recs
Grand Experiment
Please understand the difference between a knife thrust and a knife twist. Winning is a knife thrust, but moral superiority is twisting the knife when it's in. Twisting a knife that's not "in" is just shadow boxing.
Here's a grand experiment: Beat a ranked team! Win! THAT's the scoreboard that counts. Fulmer cup? No, we don't want to be on that scoreboard, but unless we win, worrying about it is real silly.
by JC on Apr 30, 2007 7:43 PM EDT 0 recs
Not Choir Boys
I don't expect to see any jail time come out of this for anybody. If these were players at many other programs, I doubt they'd miss one second of one game.
Honestly, I don't think it matters as much as some people think. The players involved are all guys at positions where PSU has great talent and depth, and some of the guys charged had VERY questionable involvement. They (King, Sales, Hayes, Sergeant) may not miss much, if any, time.
If this had happened with people on the O-Line, at RB, or at QB, then it would be time to panic. As is, we'll still have guys who are top 4 at their position in the Big Ten stepping in.
by ckmneon on Apr 30, 2007 10:29 PM EDT 0 recs
Just the fact...
So, it is double jeopardy, and just as with other social & corporate systems (the military for one) you get what you sign up for. When the players accepted the scholarships they put themselves in the position to meet more stringent standards than the average citizen. Our legal systems exist for one reason - to protect other citizens from someone's crimes. Social sanctions, on the other hand, are what keeps civility and a civilized way of life in place.
To wait on the outcome of the legal proceedings, and to use whatever happens in the courtroom as a basis for student discipline flies in the face of what Paterno has clearly stated in the past, and that is that PSU football players will be held to a higher standard than the normal student. This is part and parcel of the Grand Experiment (civility). His (Paterno's) decision needs to address how the men involved failed to live up to what was expected of them as athletes under his charge - not what might come from the judicial proceedings, plea bargains, and legal influences (rest assured these kids are lawyering up right now, and the ones with the financial resources will be in better shape than those without). If Paterno fails to do this - in the light of a situation that is probably as serious as any he has faced in his time at PSU, then any claims of "moral superiority" go out the window.
Finally, it really does not matter what other schools would do in the same situation - should they not do what's necessary it's up to them, and they will suffer the consequences if any. But, If Penn State keeps claiming the high road with the Grand Experiment, no other school's handling of what happens with that school's players matter. This falls squarely on the shoulders of the Old Man. Honestly, I'd be surprised if he doesn't come down pretty hard on this - at least I hope he does.
by Reed on May 1, 2007 7:49 AM EDT 0 recs
Couldn't agree more
It all started with Rashard Casey, who did something I'd have grounded my boys for: stand by and do nothing while his buddy beat the crap out of an off-duty cop at a bar. No criminal liability, sure, but definitely moral liability.
Note that the fact that so many homers bring up Casey in situations like this one shows me they never got the point of the Great Experiment to begin with. As Reed says, it's not about obeying the law; it's about conducting yourself with higher standards than the minimum that the law requires.
by M1EK on
May 1, 2007 10:05 AM EDT
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Still beating that dead horse
by PSU Nick on
May 1, 2007 2:46 PM EDT
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I dub thee Nick Homer
You seem to believe this means he didn't do anything wrong. I disagree - he could have tried to stop his friend; or he could have walked away; but instead, he let it happen.
That's morally wrong, if not criminally wrong. And "morally wrong" is enough to justify a suspension from the football team.
You keep setting them up, and I'll keep knocking them down.
The "nothing happened in this case" refers to the fact that it was Casey's friend who beat the cop, not Casey himself; in case anybody else falls for this tripe. Nothing more.
by M1EK on May 1, 2007 3:33 PM EDT 0 recs
The surest way to get into trouble...
by PSU Nick on
May 1, 2007 11:02 PM EDT
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Casey
by BSD on May 1, 2007 3:42 PM EDT 0 recs
Correct
by M1EK on
May 2, 2007 3:57 PM EDT
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Inherent contradictions...
He didn't partake in the fight, but since he's friends with a guy who did, that makes him essentially, in your eyes, guilty by association. That's some terrible logic dude. Here's what more terrible:
"...doing nothing to stop him or even leave. Get it yet?"
So let's see, sitting there and not getting involved is NOT okay, but leaving would be? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?? It's been said before, and I will reiterate it again. By partaking in the fight (even if it was just to attempt to calm his friend down), he becomes much more liable than if he just sits back and does nothing. He could get hurt, or worse yet he could get fingered as an accomplice (much like Justin King is now). As football players are already under the microscope, I'd have to say he made the most sensible decision.
Either way, you shouldn't be chastising people who were involved in a situation you know nothing about. Haven't you ever been at fault for something similar? Nobody is perfect, so give it a rest. There are a lot worse people in the world than Casey.
by Cpiritual27 on
May 2, 2007 4:22 PM EDT
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Dear homer bonehead:
a) stop his friend
b) get the hell out of there
is better than just standing by as his friend whooped it up on an off-duty cop. What part of this are you not getting?
Casey's not as bad as these guys who broke in the apartment. But the willingness of our homer fans to applaud Paterno for discarding the Great Experiment in that case is when all this shit started about how we supposedly can't punish somebody because a court might find him innocent of the criminal charges. Bullshit on that.
by M1EK on
May 3, 2007 3:00 PM EDT
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Okkkkkay, once again...
Yet basically you still want him to be punished for not doing anything wrong. I just don't get it...
by Cpiritual27 on
May 3, 2007 3:59 PM EDT
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Once again, it's homer education time
Not something criminally wrong; PROBABLY not even civilly wrong, but definitely morally wrong.
And as for leaving being no different - again, bull. Staying beside your friend while he does this is showing tacit approval. Leaving is at least washing your hands of the thug.
These rationalizations of what is unquestionably BAD BEHAVIOR ("b b but they weren't found GUILTY in a COURT") were stage 1 of Hurricaneities in the 1980s, BTW. The next stage, which we're currently seeing here and elsewhere, is "well, they may be likely to be found guilty in a court this time but that's only because the DA IS OUT TO GET US!"
Stage 3? Combat fatigues.
by M1EK on
May 3, 2007 5:24 PM EDT
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Only in M1ke's america...
by Cpiritual27 on
May 3, 2007 5:32 PM EDT
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M1ke is from Oceania
by PSU Nick on
May 3, 2007 5:39 PM EDT
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Bullshit on you
by PSU Nick on
May 3, 2007 4:02 PM EDT
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Keep it clean, Guys
by BSD on
May 3, 2007 4:55 PM EDT
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No Mike,
I was on a military discipline board a few years back where the accused Officer was also brought up on local civil criminal charges from an incident he instigated. He hired a good lawyer and beat the civil criminal charges. However, our Board found him guilty of some of those same, and additional, charges stemming from the incident as required by the Manual for Courts Martial, over the profound disbelief of his civilian lawyer and the accused's family. I felt perfectly justified in doing so because as an Military Officer, he was held to higher behavioral standards than others - and ultimately represents the Service in which he was commissioned. And, to be honest, even if the Board hadn't found him guilty, other career sanctions would have taken place. Like it or not this is what you get when you set high standards - you're left having to enforce them across the board - or in the long run they mean nothing. This is true especially if the principals involved (PSU and Paterno) have made a public commitment to doing things the right way - regardless of public opinion or the results on the field.
I don't know squat about the Casey situation, but do know that the eyes of football fans across the US are on what Paterno does in this situation. Let's hope he doesn't disappoint.
by Reed on May 1, 2007 10:11 PM EDT 0 recs
Wow!
What a way to live a life! Personal decision making based on liability? Throw out the moral compass, disregard the Golden Rule, never help anyone in need (in this case the guy being beaten), live life as selfishly as possible. I don't think any of those actions fit into the Grand Experiment.
Paterno has attempted and spoken very publicly about molding young boys into well rounded and civilly engaged Gentlemen by forcing them to adhere to strict standards, and holding accountable those that do not. There shouldn't be a "Liability 101" course thrown into the mix.
by Reed on May 3, 2007 6:20 AM EDT 0 recs
Once again...
by Cpiritual27 on
May 3, 2007 10:59 AM EDT
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